coming up -- a hospice chaplain helping dying patients find the meaning in their lives. >> is there a god? is there a god who knows i am sick? is there a d who cares th i am sick? also, one of the world's mostdmir jewish rabbis, d the project that took him 45 years to complete.

welcome. i'm bob abernethy. it's good to have you with us. religious groups held rallies and a 48-hour prayer vigil in front the supreme court this week, as the justices heard oral arguments over arizona's controversial immigration law. at issue in the case is whether the state law infringes on the federal government's authority to establish and enforce immigration policy. but, several faith groups argue the law violates the dignity of immigrants and could result in racial profiling. for more on this, i am joined by kim lawton, managing editor of

this program and patricia zapor, a staff writer with catholic news service who's been covering the faith community and immigration. pat, it's nice to have you back here again. >> thank you, it's good to be back. >> the catholic bishops and many other religious leaders want a whole new kind of approach to immigration. what specifically, what exactly do they want? >> well, that could take the whole program to explain. they want a comprehensive approach, something that gives people who are already here illegally the chance to legalize their status so that they can pull their families together, reunite torn apart families, work legally, be able to go home to their home countries and visit their families there, they want a path for jobs, there's a whole assortment of things. >> any likelihood that they might get those things any time soon? >> i think that's probably very unlikely in an election year although it might make for some good political demanding during this season. >> one of the arguments this

particular week as the case was at the court from the religious community was that some of the local laws could hinder their ministry. what were they talking about? >> well, this came up most conspicuously in 2006 in a version of legislation that passed the house included a provision that would make it illegal for anybody to help people who are in the country illegally. cardinal mahony of los angeles, then the archbishop, at that time told his priests, that if this bill passes, i am not going to expect you to follow through with that, to follow that law. it's seen as an imposition on the rights of people of faith to take care of others. >> people talk about the rights of other people, too, and what do the religious leaders say to those who say look, we've got laws and laws need to be enforced and obeyed? >> well, i think the religious leaders agree that state's government have a right to enforce their borders but their arguments against the current immigration situation relate to

the civil rights era when dr. martin luther king and bishops, and priests, and rabbis were at the forefront of arguments that the laws requiring segregation were inhumane, and they were unjust laws, that they had a right and an obligation to fight against those laws. >> what are some of the theological and moral arguments that these religious leaders, really across a pretty broad spectrum, are making on this? >> well, and they go back to the old testament and into the new testament to calls to take care of the stranger, to take of those people who have no rights in a society. they are through out scriptures. that's one of the main things that they go to. >> there was some new data that came out this past week about the number of immigrants from mexico going down for the first time in a long time. does that change things at all? >> not really, because there are a lot of people who are in the country illegally to begin with and that hasn't particularly, doesn't reflect a slowing of migration from central america, from south america.

just because the situation in mexico is changing doesn't really change the whole picture all that much. >> situation changing, what better job opportunities? >> in mexico, yes, mexico's economy has improved, there's a lower birthrate, an assortment of factors involved in that. >> pat zapor of catholic news service, many thanks. >> thank you. congressman paul ryan delivered a major speech on the budget this week, amid protests from some catholics who say he is misusing church teachings to support cutting government programs that help the poor. speaking at georgetown university on thursday, ryan said catholic social teaching did guide his thinking on these issues and that federal programs aren't necessarily the best way to help the needy. >> simply put, i do not believe

that the preferential option for the poor means a preferential option for big government. >> but in a letter to ryan, 90 georgetown faculty and staff members argued his budget does not appear to reflect the values of the gospel. >> this is not the time for the federal government to step aside and say "hey, you're on your own." no. president obama marked holocaust days of remembrance with a visit to the u.s. holocaust memorial museum. joined by survivor, elie weisel, the president spoke of the need to reject hatred in all forms. he said the u.s. has a moral responsibility to prevent genocide. he also announced the creation of a government-wide committee to help combat atrocities. members of the united methodist church gathered in florida this week for the denomination's general conference, held every four years. delegates are once again

debating several issues dealing with homosexuality, including the church's ban on non-celibate gay clergy and gay marriage. in recent years there has been a steady growth in hospice care for the terminally ill. the idea is to ease the suffering of people in their last months of life. comforting the dying is a natural calling for chaplas. and, correspondent bob faw visited a hospice chaplain in new bedford, massachusetts. she told him about the importance of listening carefully as dying patients search for the meaning of their lives. >> if you want to know what a hospice chaplain does, watch kerry egan in new bedford, massachusetts, as she visits 71-year-old jim burgo, who didn't want his face shown and who is dying from liver disease. >> i don't want to suffer.

i know i am going to die, but i don't want to suffer. >> at life's end, when burgo is anguished and needs to talk about dying, the hospice chaplain listens and comforts. >> there are a lot of things about vietnam that i am not proud of either. >> and i think god forgives those things. >> i hope so. i really hope so. >> if this is one aspect of her healing minist is somber, her visit to the fall river home of 97-year-old mary labrie shows another. ♪ when we all see jesus, we'll sing and shout the victory ♪ >> here the mood is upbeat, because mary, unlike jim burgo, faces death with absolutely no

fear, indeed, looks forward to being in heaven and being reunited with her late husband of 75 years. >> oh yeah, i'll see them again. we will all be together one day. >> what do you think that will be like, being together again? >> oh, that will be wonderful. >> kerry egan counsels people of all different faiths, and not all of h patients are religious. but the common thread in her work, she says, is helping people give meaning to their lives. >> how do you make sense of all of this that is going on in your life? for every person that i go to see, my goal is the same, which is to find out what their goal is, to help them meet it. >> a chaplain for 13 years, what is crucial, says egan, is learning how to listen. >> i hear terrible stories sometimes-terrible stories, and the most compassionate thing you can do is not turn away. oftentimes for you to go in and say, "it's okay. it's okay," when they full well

know it is not okay, it shuts them up. so now they can't say, "i'm frightened. i'm angry. i'm confused," because now they need tact like everything is okay. >> listening is the most important thing? >> yes, deeply listening to what it is they're saying. >> a chaplain for 13 years, kerry egan says something was brewing with jim burgo. finally, she understood. his father had taken him away from his mother when burgo was very young, and burgo was afraid it was going to happen again. >> so are you afraid that you will die and go to heaven? >> i am not afraid of going to heaven. >> i know, but that your mother and father will be there, and your father will take your mother away again? >> that is very, very possible in my mind, yeah. >> well, there's no point in sugarcoating it, right? that's not helpful. if someone is dying, and they're sick, they know it. "teaching them to observe all things that i have commanded you. and lo, i am with you always." >> oh, that is my favorite

verse. >> i know it is. some people really come to the end, and they feel good. you know, they've done a lifetime of work and of thinking about this and they just want someone to be there with them, to sort of enforce those strengths they already have. >> but others struggle, and kerry egan tries to see them come to terms with what ultimately matters. >> for some people there's an incredible relief to have someone come in and say, "what did all this mean? what did my life mean? what does my death mean? why am i sick? is there a god? is there a god who knows i'm sick? is there a god who cares that i am sick?" >> for a while, what kerry couldn't understand was why her patients talk to a chaplain so much about their families. >> it took me a long time to realize that is how people are talking about god. again, they might not use the term "god," but that's how they talk about ultimate meaning.

they're trying to get at love. they're trying to get at what god is. jim is a great example of that. he was talking about his mother, and he was talking about love. what does the love of god look like? am i going to get to see my mother again? is the love my father showed me or didn't show me, is that what god is like? >> raised catholic, now an episcopalian, kerry egan isn't always successful. one patient actually threw a bedpan at her. but jim burgo's wife, elaine, says that every time hospice chaplain egan visits, jim isn't the only one who benefits. >> she helps me by helping him. if i want to talk, i know she is there, and she's just an excellent listener. we don'ty scs the holy spirit and god. i know she is there just knowing he is going to die. if i want to discuss anything, she is available.

>> just a few months ago, mary was near death. kerry and the hospice team brought her back to good health, and it was only with kerry, says mary's daughter, judy, that mary was able to reveal how she worried about the grief her death would bring her children. >> it gave me that peace, knowing that mom is not in denial, that she was just worried about us. she was worried about us children. that was really precious. you know, it's so good to have someone from outside the family that she can share with, so that she might say things to kerry that she might not feel comfortable sharing with me as a daughter. >> family members, of course, are not the only ones who appreciate kerry. >> you make people better. you explain god to me. you've given me a whole bunch. >> you read the bible sometimes. >> i read it every day.

>> every day. >> and there is some good information there to keep you going if you are concerned about things. >> and seeing kerry, does that keep you going? >> oh, yes. >> kerry meets every day with members of the hospice team. today she talks with nurse patty martin about mary's progress. >> she's walking around. she is eating better. she is gaining weight. >> mary is doing so well soon she will have to be taken off it is something she's come to depend upon. hospice. it's just one more issue a hospice chaplain confronts. what helps her cope and decompress, says egan, is a happy home life -- two children, a supportive husband, two dogs. she prays, meditates, hikes, and dances. it helps, too, she concedes, to maintain a certain distance from her patients.

>> i have to remember that it's not about me, right? it's not personal. i'm a passing person in their life. you know, i'm not his wife, i'm not his daughter, i'm not his mother. not even his best friend. you know, i'm his chaplain, and that's a very different role. >> and when that distancing isn't enough, kerry says, she relies on her faith. >> that gives me a lot of strength to do this. to be able to say that this is not the end and that life is hard, and really hard things happen but that we can be with each other. we can help each other through it, and that is how god functions in this world. >> with jim burgo or with mary, kerry egan says she's learned that while there are miracles, her role is not to be a miracle worker. >> it really is between the patient and god, right? and that the patient and god are

going to do all the work. it's not like i have some magical presence in there. not at all. >> and what does kerry get out of it? >> i get enormous joy. people know so much more than they think they know when they're allowed to explore it themselves, and god is so much more present than anybod usually gives god credit for. and i get to see that. i get to know that. >> caring for them when their bodies are failing and their spiritual needs are crying out, too. >> you're such a good man. >> i am not, but someday -- >> for "religion and ethics newsweekly," this is bob faw in new bedford, massachusetts. >> we are sorry to add that shortly after that interview, jim burgo died. we have a profile today of one of the world's most

respected rabbis. he is a 74-year-old israeli, adin steinsaltz, the author of 60 books on ethics, prayer and mysticism, with a few mystery novels included. rabbi steinsaltz is most admired for a monumental project that took him 45 years, sometimes working 17 hour days. he translated the babylonian talmudrom ancient hebr and aramc in moderhebrew and added his own commentary and background. the torah is judaism's holiest text, genesis through deuteronomy. the talmud is commentary on the torah. but in its original languages, the talmud was studied primarily by students and scholars. now, the steinsaltz talmud will make it available to everyone. the holiest site in all judaism is in jerusalem, the western wall of the second temple, destroyed in the year 70. the devout come to the wall to

pray, and so do many 13-year-old boys at the time of their bar mitzvahs, when they take on the full responsibilities of adults. one of those duties is studying the torah, with its 613 laws about how to live. the torah, for rabbi steinsaltz, is a divine guide, a map of the paths and the main road through a world of danger and blessings -- in his words, lions and angels. >> we are living in a world we really don't know what are the paths. we don't know what are the ways. we don't even know what the main road is. so we need some kinds of signs to tell us that here live lions, and here possibly live angels. that's mostly what the torah is, a book basically of instructions -- go this way, go

the other way, do it, don't do it. so that's as simple as that. >> holy as the torah is, its laws are in some ways unclear. for instance, it requires keeping the sabbath, but it never explains exactly how. so the talmud emerged, first as an oral tradition, later written down. centuries of rabbinical commentaries interpreting the torah's laws and arguing over them. rabbi steinsaltz began his translation of the talmud when he was 28. it took him 45 years and ran to 45 volumes. >> it was necessary because it is an important book. i once called it the center pillar of our culture. >> recently, steinsaltz was in new york city teaching and explaining what is unique about the steinsaltz talmud, his own commentary and extensive background.

>> you have here the original hebrew, the translation in english, and then you have, you see, notes about the law. >>ith his many books as well as his talmud translation, the rabbi personifies judaism's commitment to learning and to argument as a means of understanding. >> the idea of the talmud is that you are allowed to ask questions about anything, everything that can be done, encouraging you to ask questions, trying to find answers. >> and the rabbis let her then remarry. evenhougthere was only one witness. >> every day students and scholars around the world study and question and debate the meanings of the torah and talmud and the arguments of rabbis who have studied them. there is no single authority to decide how best to interpret the religious law, but argument over the centuries can lead to

general agreement, until the next question and the next argument. steinsaltz was raised in a secular jewish family, but his father insisted he study the sacred texts so he would not grow up ignorant. i asked him how he became religious. >> it was almost spontaneous. i don't know where that came from. believing in god is in a way is the most natural, perhaps even the most primitive notion that people have. >> but belief, said steinsaltz, is just the beginning. >> what is really difficult is not so much the belief but the relationship. i'm still striving to become better, to become faithful for serving him, to become a human being as he possibly wants me to be. >> steinsaltz sees all human

beings as god's partners in what jews call tikkun olam, repairing the world. >> the lord says i made the world. it's pretty good, but there are all kinds of holes in it. you people go, and you make the amendments, bigger ones, smaller ones. but you, that's your duty. >> the rabbi says even the smallest good deed can have a global result, the so-called "butterfly effect." >> the movement of the wings of a butterfly can change the world, and the point is basically we live in one world. any movement in this world somehow affects everything else. so when we do anything better, we change the world. >>f jews study the torah, if they honor the sabbath and the other holy days, if they do good deeds and partner with god,

steinsaltz says they will achieve holiness. he also says everyone possesses a divine spark. >> this spark is in a way trying to find its way to the main fire, and then it wants to sink into the main fire. >> steinsaltz said he saw no signs of any early peace in the middle east, but he insisted that he had not despaired. >> i am an optimist, meaning that i see things as black as they are, but i still hope. >> talking with the rabbi, it was clear that his optimism rests on his absolute trust in god. >> when you believe that, you see, everything comes from the lord. so whenever something happens if it's a glad thing, i'm saying thank you for making me happy or healthy or satisfied.

if something untoward happens to me, it's saying the same thing. please, thank you for letting me know that you exist. god exists everywhere in every way in every form. we have so many prayers in our religion, so many prayers, but sometimes the prayer is just like i pick up the phone and say "hello, i'm glad that you are there." >> steinsaltz said he would like to be remembered as a person who did something to make the world better. he also said he would like to live another hundred years -- teaching, writing, doing what he can to repair the world and to become, as he put it, the human being god possibly wants him to be. next month the first four volumes of the steinsaltz talmud in english are due to come out.

finally, a memorial service at the washington national cathral is planned for charles colson, the prominent evangelical leader who died last weekend after complications from a blood clot in his brain. he was 80 years old. a former nixon aide who served time in prison for his involvement in the watergate scandal, colson famously became a born-again christian. after his release, he founded prison fellowship, a ministry for prisoners and ex-prisoners. colson was a frequent speaker and author, and an outspoken advocate for religion in public life. that's our program for now. i'm bob abernethy. you can follow us on twitter and facebook, nd uon ytube, and wah us anytime, anywhere on smart phones. there's also much more on our website. you can comment on all of our stories and share them. audio and video podcasts are also available.

join us at pbs.org. as we leave you, scenes from an interfaith worship service in washington, d.c., where religious leaders marked earth day with calls for more government action on climate change.