>> rose: welcome to the program. we're in florida with jack nicklaus. it is 50 years after he won his first master's and i look forward to a fascinating conversation with a man many believe is the greatest player ever to play the game. >> the atmosphere that the gallery -- it's all -- it all builds up and you've just got to understand it and enjoy it. i used to -- charlie, many times i'd come down near the end of a tournament and i'd fwot the 14th or 15th hole and i'd be maybe a shot ahead or even or something and i'd just stop and i'd go (deep breath) take a couple big breaths, look around, see the people and i say

"man, is this not fun?" >> rose: (laughs) >> "is this why i'm here?" and it would energize me to go finish the tournament. to me, that's why i was there. i mean, to me to finish at noon on sunday and finish 30th in sothing i have no desire to do. >> rose: right. >> >> but to come down the stretch of a golf tournament and have a chance to win that golf tournament and be there to enjoy and have fun with those people and yourself and the competition with your fellow competitor, that's why we play the silly game! that's why we love it. >> rose: you did say that tiger has learned to play again, now he has to learn to win again. >> rose: >> -- he's learning to win again. i said i think he'll break my record. i still think tt. but he still these do it. and what he has to do -- he's 38 years old now. he's got to win five majors to pass me. he's got to win more majors than anybody out there in a whole

career and he's starting at 38. that's tough. but i still think that he has the talent and, you know, and i would be really stupid to say i think -- i don't think he'll do that. because i think he's got the talent. i don't think it's anybody that's been on the scene any more talented than tiger and he's certainly -- and he certainly is -- look at what he's done this year. >> rose: jack nicklaus for the hour. next.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: jack nicklaus is widely regarded as the greatest golfer to ever play the game. he won a record 18 majors, he burst on to the scene in the 1950s with a mix of power and finesse that would revolutionize golf. the great bobby jones famously remarked that nicklaus plays a game with which i am not familiar. nobody has been a master's champion more than nicklaus. in 1986 at age 46 he won a sixth green jacket, making him the

oleest player to ever win a major. this year marks the 50th anniversary of his first win at the augusta national. last weekend i visited him at his home in north palm beach, florida. anything that you wanted in life you didn't get? >> (laughs) if it is i don't know what it is. >> rose: i look out here, these the things that the best can buy. >> these are toys. >> rose: but inside is a place where your wife barbara, this is a remarkable marriage you've had. >> we live in the same house now. >> rose: you met her when you were like so more in college? >> freshman. first week of college. i walked barbara to class, i asked her for a date, she roped me in about two weeks later. >> rose: after that? >> we've been dating ever since and married. we were engaged when we were 19, married when we were 20, we had our first child after she got out of college when she was 21 and jackie's now 51 years old. >> rose: the week of the honeymoon did you play golf?

>> (laughs) >> rose: (laughs) that's one of my great stories. barbara has such a great honeymoon. we got married on saturday, we drove sunday to hershey, pennsylvania. and we played -- she got to see hershey country club on monday morning. the assistant in columbus, we then drove to new york and then we went down to eddie condon's and pete says to me, he says "hey, nick, you going to play?" so we went up and it was pouring down rain, there were three people on the golf course that day-- me, barbara and my caddy. >> rose: (laughs) >> honestly. >> rose: you wanted to play. >> and i played and so after a couple days in new york we were going to spend two weeks in new york, we stayed at the astor which is no longer there. we went to a couple shows. we saw "camelot" and we went to sar di's for dinner. all the other things honeymooners do and she said "let's go someplace else." i said "where do you want to go?"

she said "i've never been to atlantic city." and of course we go right by pine valley so -- they wouldn't let her go. she saw it from the outside, david newbold became a good friend, took her around the property and peeked her nose in where she could watch me play, i played pine valley and we got that and the next day she said she was -- well, we've now seen the board walk, she says "let's go home." so we went home. that was our honeymoon. >> rose: our discussion was more than an hour and we'll show it to you in two parts. we begin looking back 53 years ago in the u.s. open. you might have won the u.s. open, but you didn't. >> ints dently, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. >> rose: what? >> not winning. >> rose: why? >> i learned so many lessons, i got to play with hogan. i saw how to finish a tournament. i learned the mistakes that i made.

if i won the tournament i never would have found the mistakes i made which i never really repeated in my career. >> rose: what kind of mistakes? >> oh, i had a one-shot lead but i was leading after nine holes -- with nine holes to play. at the end 1206 holes i had a one shot lead. i looked at the leader board, started worrying about hogan, palmer, the cherry, souchak, those were the ones who were on leave all four under and i was five under and i got nervous on the next hole and i had a little -- and i had a ball mark in my way and i didn't have the presence of mind and i didn't know i could fix a ball mark. but you're not thinking clearly. so i three put it had next green. miss and bogeyed 18 to lose the tournament. arnold won the tournament, that's fine. hogan, he self-destructed on 17 and 18 but all those things, if

i had won that tournament i'd have said boy, i'm really good. i wouldn't have learned the lessons, i wouldn't have had to learn how to do different things and it really was up with of the greatest things i've had in my career. greatest perns playing with hogan. >> rose: why? >> oh, he was unbelievable tracker. he hit the previous 18 greens in regulation. every green in the second round and the first 34 holes i've played with him the last day he hit every green in regulation. 52 greens in regulation. he was a machine. and he couldn't have been nicer to play with. he played just like i did. you know he gave you a few nice things to say and didn't really talk a lot, he talked a little bit. when it got to be his time to play golf it was all business. that's sort of what i was. i was business when it was my turn to play and what i was trying to do, i tried to be pleasant in between. hogan was pleasant in between and it was just he was the kind

of guy i enjoyed playing with. >> rose: as good a ball striker as there has ever been in golf? >> i think trevino was good, too. >> rose: pure ball strikers. so in '63 you go to the masters and people are asking this question. can he validate what he did at the u.s. open? how did you approach it? >> well, i was in masters '61, '62, i felt like i was in a position to want to pay well in '62 because i came very close in '60, '61 as an amateur and '62 i didn't play very well. i finished 14th and i said that wasn't a very good tournament for me and so going in '63 -- actually '63 i didn't know what was going to happen because i hurt my hip and i was in san francisco and i hit a second

shot in the green in the pro-am at lucky international which was harding park and i couldn't hardly walk by the time i was at the green. i played the next game, missed the cut. i could hardly walk and i went down to see dr. wagner was a 49er doctor, he injected my hip and they said come on back -- he said i want you to come back on monday morning, i want to do another injection before you go. i said can you give me another injection? i won the golf tournament but i couldn't play left to right, i couldn't hit into my hip. i had to play around it. i proceeded to have 25 injections in my hip during the next month, ten weeks. and so finally my hip got all right but during that period of time i couldn't swing into it. i learn how old to playwright to left because i could play around my hip and so i went to augusta knowing that i'd never played right-to-left before but i could playwright-to-left because i had

to all spring. and i went there with confidence felt like i was going to play well, shot 74 the first round, not a very good round but i came back with 66. in the second round in great pogts, good position to be right in what was going on and i ended up finishing it all. >> rose: i'm told that augusta favors a hook right to left. >> if you're right-handed. >> rose: all of a sudden that ice what you had. >> all of a sudden that's what i had. i never played right-handed. augusta was always not that difficult a course for me but there was always a half dozen shots that needed to be played right-to-left and i never could play them because i never had confidence in playing them. by doing what i did all spring it gave me that confidence. >> rose: do you remember putting on the green jacket? >> i do sort of. >> rose: because arnie was giving it to you. >> arnie gave it to me. you'll enjoy this story. they went in and they didn't have -- they just grabbed a coat out, it was a 46 long and i'm a 43 regular so the sleeves were

down to here, the coat was down to my knees and so after i won the tournament that was supposedly my jacket i came back the next year and they said, well, we don't have a jacket so they gave me too many dewey, exgovernor of new york's jacket. for the next ten years i wore tom dewey's jacket. never got my own jacket. i won six masters, was never given a green jacket. finally in 1998 i'm sitting down with jack stevens and we're talking about the tournament and how t turnment with the drinking fountain they put at the 17th and he said, well -- so i told him the story about the jacket. he says "you mean we've never given you a green jacket?" i said "no. i've only won six masters. i thought i was going to get one i never have gotten one." so i went home, came back there was a note in my locker "ghoul to the pro shop and get your

green jacket." so in 1998 i got my first green jacket. >> rose: (laughs) now, where was bobby jones? >> when i first met jones it was '55. he was speaking at the -- my first u.s. amateur, i was 15 years old in richmond, virginia. and he was then had two canes that he walked with. he didn't walk very far. by the time i got to the the masters in '59 he was in a wheelchair. and i really enjoyed his company. there's no a note in my locker when i got there. >> rose: that's what i wanted to ask you. >> inviting my father and me down to this cabin to talk. and i thought that was very, very nice. he did it every year. there was a little note every year. >> rose: put in the your locker? >> put it in my locker. i thought that was very nice. >> rose: there was a time in which he came to watch you play. much earlier. >> that was that first u.s. amateur. he spoke at the banquet, he had seen me hit a couple of shots on

the golf course that day and he came to me after the banquet and he says "young man, i'm going to come out and watch you play a few holes tomorrow." so i was playing bob gardner, a very good player from california and new york and bob -- had bob one down after ten holes then suddenly here comes the cart dun the fairway, i'd been looking for it all day. and as i got 11 i was bogey, bogey, double bogey and lost all three holes to gardner. bob jones turned to my dad and he said "charlie, i don't think i'm doing jack any good. i'm out of here." >> rose: (laughs) >> so that was my first meeting. >> rose: but he was who you wanted to be? >> he was terrific. i loved -- he was my dad's hero growing up my dad watched -- dad was only 12 years old but me with he watched jones when he opened in 1926. he came back to the ryder cup in 1931 and my dad then was 18 years old, i guess, and having

the ryder cup and my dad was walking and my dad looked like jones, he parted his hair close to the middle and that kind of stuff and they said "hey, mr. jones, come out here, we'll take you into the clubhouse." my dad didn't know what they were talking about so he was escorted into the clubhouse with an 18-year-old kid and they thought he was job jones. so bob jones was his hero. won in '63, didn't win in '64, i won in '65 and that year i'd broken the record, i shot 64 one round, i shot 27 1, broke hogan's record by three shots. and he said -- he says "young mr. nicklaus, you play a game with which i'm not familiar." meaning obviously a game he had not seen the likes of which was very, very flattering saying that here i played better than anybody he'd ever seen play. >> rose: but what you added to the game at that time was power. >> i added power. i never liked -- i never liked being a power player. i always had power available.

i love short golf courses. i love shot-making courses. i love to hook the ball, cut the ball, play it high, play it low. i like to play the shots but i had the power and i had it available and when i wanted to use it i had it in and that was a tremendous advantage and particularly at augusta because there were several holes at augusta you did it and took advantage of it. >> rose: but you played with power a as well as finesse and that's how you changed the game because everybody today plays with power. >> the game that i was playing was about 10% to 20% power and 80% shot making. today the game is about 80% power and 20% shot making. >> rose: here's what you said "i added power. i was successful to play with finesse as well. if you look at today's game they play with power so i took the game at that time in a different direction." >> i did. i probably was the first power hiter who was successful. around was a power hitter.

certainly there were guys that hit the ball long before me but i guess my ability to hit the ball with control and hit it long was what people hadn't seen. >> rose: as arnold famously said the big guy is out of the cage, we better start running. >> after i won the open in '62 and we finished the open and after that he said "the big guy's out of the cage, you better watch out." >> rose: (laughs) >> arnold's always been terrific to me. i like arnold an awful lot. he's -- he never treated me as a younger guy and just an upstart. he always treated me as an equal and i always appreciated that and enjoyed his company. >> rose: and, in fact, you shared an agent. >> mark mccormack. >> rose: so the masters, it is said, asks every question of your game it tests every part of

a golf game. >> well, that's the idea of what championship golf is about is to use every club in your bag. to fight and take command of all the conditions you might play you might win or firm greens oral difficult short game. the masters is the first of the ones that actually says hey, i've got a test for you, see if you can handle it. >> rose: you don't play your opponent, you play the course. >> i always play the course and me. actually i am my opponent. in other words, the only person i can control is me. i can't control anybody else and what they're doing. so it's the golf course and me and what can i do on that golf course? that's what i did and that's to me you had to learn -- i've got a lot of young kids that come to me and ask me how i played and what i did and i say the most important thing you can do is learn who you are and what your

abilities are. what your shortcomings are and what your long suit is. if you can take advantage of your long suit and minimize your shortcomings you can be a really good player as long as you play smart and play within yourself you'll be a good player. >> reporter: you've always said you love the precision of the game more than the power of the game. >> i always have. i love pursuit and to me it's more fun to play an interesting cut shot into a green or a high soft drawl or a bump-and-run or something. i always thought those were fun shots. >> rose: you see the club as an extension of your hands? >> i see the club head as what i'm playing golf with, a golf club. and i like that feel and figure out how do i do -- i visualize what i can do and i feel what my swing is and if i can have the golf club in my hands in a way that i feel like i can perform the shot i want to perform that's what int to do. obviously it takes practice to

do that and you have to learn where your hands need to be and where the club needs to be and how you can put in the -- but that to me was the fun of the game. the fun of the game was being able to outsmart the golf course outsmart yourself and play within yourself and make sure that that golf club is doing what you want it to do to control the golf ball. >> rose: and play within yourself so if you needed more power. >> and play within yourself meaning you don't try to do something you shouldn't do. whereas if you went to the 15th hole at augusta and you're standing back there 250 yards and you're saying i'm in good position in the tournament here but i think i can get home. well, what are my chances of getting home. five out of ten? not very good odds, i don't like that. if i hit it down 20 yards further and i'm sitting there with a two or three-iron in my hand and i'm saying 19 times out of 20 i'm going to put the ball on the green. i don't want 50-50. i want the 19 out of 20.

i'm going to make sure that 20th doesn't happening. that's playing within yourself. >> it's also playing smart. most people believe that you hit a one-iron better than anybody had ever hit a one-iron. >> i love the one-iron. i love it. because of the things i could do with it and people said why didn't you carry a four with you instead of a one-iron. well, a four-wood was up in the air and too much the elements. a one-iron i could always control the elements by pinning it down or hooking it and i go back and look at -- maybe my three favorite shots that i ever hit were all one-iron shots. '67, the u.s. open, pebble beach in '72 and the master's at '75. all one-iron shots and i look at that and i say ooh was that fun. when i hit a good shot i loved it. it got me charged up and excited that was fun.

>> rose: but what was it about you and golf that everybody said was going to a new era? >> well, that would be difficult for know answer. i was a 23-year-old kid in '63 and all i -- my whole goal is to go out and play the game i knew how to play, play it to the best of my ability and try to be the best at it that i could be. obviously the u.s. open fell to me in '62, the masters in '63 and i always tried to climb a mountain. i always felt like here i am -- there's a lot of other guys throughout that are also good and all of a sudden i must be better than i think i am. gee, i guess i better keep climbing. let's try to get better. i never thought about that i was changing something. >> rose: johnny miller said "the

difference between jack and me is when i get to the top of the mountain i stopped. jack would simply say where is the next higher mountain to climb." you were constantly thinking what's next. >> i did that all my career. i always wanted to get better. it wasn't until i was in my 40s that i felt like i don't think i'm going to climb any higher mountains but i had a long run and i was very had a lot of fun doing that. >> rose: 18 majors, came in second 19 times. >> that's bad. i got beat too many times. >> rose: (laughs) why do you think it was? >> i don't think i played conservatively, although some people might have said that. i think i played to do the best i could do, prepare myself the best i could and do the best i can within myself and i always felt like, you know, you got 100 other guys or more playing against you and there's going to

be weeks where you play your best and somebody plays better d so i just accepted that even though i didn't like losing. i didn't try to -- i never tried to be in a position to shoot myself out of the tournament. i always felt -- i look at tiger coming along now and i see tiger coming down the stretch through most of his first ten wins or so and you know tiger didn't have to do anything. he knew that all he had to do was play within himself and everybody else was going to self-destruct. that's what i felt most of the time but occasionally there were some guy guys like palmer and trevino and watson who didn't self-destruct and -- they played well and all of a sudden i got beat a few times but it was only can couple of them that i look back on them and say i gave that

tournament away. the u.s. open in 1960 and the british open in 1963 i bogey it had last two holes by doing really silly things and -- but i don't think any ever gave any more away. i was always -- i may have gotten beat but i always played pretty well. maybe a little bit in '71 at the playoff with trevino i didn't get ouof a bunker in the second and third hole. i got behind in the playoff. but generally i was -- i was looking to just play the best i could with it but then within myself if somebody -- and that generally won. >> rose: you have no great regrets? >> i don't have any regrets. i had a great career. >> rose: how important was the balance in your life if you had barbara and you had family and you had a place that gave you a center? >> well, that to me was the most important thing. golf was never the most important thing in my life.

if my family was always number one and golf was always number two. whatever -- and i think that it was so important to me. you know, i got five kids, 22 grand kids and when you look back at it you look back and say "my kids all knew me, they all understood what i did and they were part of what i did. today we still talk about the football games that i went to or basketball games that i went to and i made an effort to do things and the kids -- i don't bring it up, they bring it up because they loved it and, you know, i just feel really sad for a lot of people who really were so focused on one thing that they didn't live the best part of life. >> rose: no great regrets that you did not win a grand slam. >> well, i have regrets that i didn't win it but i just didn't do it. >> rose: what round do you remember the most in terms of you versus someone else? is it watson?

>> i don't know. i never really thought about me versus somebody else. that probably is -- probably the one round -- one tournament that i would probably remember more of the shots than any of the other ones that i lostened n that last round i could probably remember three or four shots. tournaments i won i can probably remember most of them. the ones i lose i usually get them out of my mind and forget about them but that was a good one. tom played great and i played very well, too. i made one mistake, i missed a five footer at 17 and that cost me the tournament. but it's the way it goes. >> rose: trevino once said about you that you played badly better than anybody else. that you can play badly for you and still shoot a 68. >> well, that's the secret to playing golf is to learn how to score well playing badly and i played -- i mean, i played poorly, many, many, many times and i walked off the golf course

inside of 68 or 68 on my score card. but that's the game. it was understanding who i was and what i could do and playing within myself and one thing i always did on the golf course, charlie, is i always try to correct myself if i was not playing well i didn't care it was the last round of the u.s. open and if i didn't like what i was doing i would make the change in the middle of the round. i would play conservatively for a shot or two while i was working on it but i knew that the way i waslayin i wasn't going to win so i needed to change. i needed to do it right then so i did it and a lot of those tournaments i won. >> rose: if you had trouble to your game do you go back to jack grouten and say -- >> the one thing jack grouten did for me which i respect and love jack grouten like hoot father he taught me how to take care myself. talk me how to teach myself. jack grout went to many, many, many golf tournaments. not one time did jack grout ever

step on the practice field at a tournament. jack grout would be back in the bleachers or stands by the ropes and i went to jack maybe while i was playing in the middle of my career maybe two or three times a year and spend an hour and talk about more things other than golf but he always finished up saying jack i think you need to take your left hand. he said your head is a little out of position, you need to work on this. but that was all he'd say. he knew that he had taught me how to play golf and he wanted know correct myself. so when i got in the heat of battle i could do so. and that was the greatest asset he gave me. >> rose: and you did that in the middle of a tough match. you knew what was wrong. >> i figured it out and i would change it. if i had a tough shot then i would play away from that shot and when you're playing a round of golf it's not a half dozen shots that can murder you in a

round so if you have one of those shots come up you would try to avoid being too aggressive with that shot but then you have to next hole. you're making a mista and you get to the eighth hole. there there's not much trouble on the eighth hole so you can if i hadle with that and make those corrections if i was 11, 12, and 13, uh-uh. i'd go play conservatively so if i wasn't happy i wasn't going to kill myself and pull myself out of the tournament and that's understanding yourself and what you do. >> rose: weiskopf said about you he said jack knows he can beat you; you know he can beat you and he knows you know he can beat you. was intimidation at a factor? >> i never used it. i'm sure that it was i never tried to flaunt it. i didn't think that was a proper thing to do tom weiskopf was a terrific player.

the he was one of the great strikers of the golf ball, he had a great short game, he was a smart player. but when he got with me he did exactly what you said. i knew that i could probably beat tom if i kept my head and tom beat me on a few occasions and he beat me because he played better. but i think there's a lot of a occasions that weiskopf had in the his own head that i was going to win and it probably hurt him. >> rose: what amazes me, sitting here talking to the greatest golfer to ever play the game, if something goes wrong it's the fundamentals that go wrong. >> absolutely. >> rose: it's your hands on the club. >> absolutely. >> rose: not standing as straight as you normally are. >> absolutely. your posture, your balance on your feet or you're getting some -- getting out of sequence in your fwofl swing. i used to get any hips started first and when i got my hips started then i left the club so that got me into a position of

-- and i had to go back and work my hips to make sure i got the clubs started. i could see those things. i could feel it and i think that's really important. >> rose: you have 17 majors. you were 46 years old. did you believe you had it in you to win another major? >> well, i believe i had it in me charlie but i knew i would never get it out of me. that's the problem. (laughs) i remember after i won the open in in 1980 i sort of lost a little bit of interest. my kids were starting to get to the age where i was watching high school sports and their activities were far more important than my activities playing golf. i still like to play golf but i was down playing 12, 14 tournaments a year.

certainly wasn't looking forward to just being a senior golfer, that wasn't my goal by any means. so i don't know why i was playing i was going through motions and when i started to prepare for the masters i would start thinking about the masters in january and i'd start playing the golf courses and tournaments that would prepare me best for augusta so when i got to augusta i was ready to play. well, in 1986 i thought about in the january but i didn't start preparing for it until about the middle of march. i really wasn't into it as much as i was then but that particular year i got a new putter play along -- clay long at our company had this big long puter that he -- he felt that the moment of inertia, the twist factors and all the other things were very good on this putter. maybe i'm naming things i shouldn't name but anyway.

he said jack, i want you to try this putter. i remember the first tournament i used it was down in eagle trace in fort lauderdale and it was a windy day and i had a puck that was this long and about the third hole the wind blew the putter into the ball and i hit it that far short of the hole on the six inch put and i said wow. anyway, i fiddled around, tried a couple more and when i got to augusta i actually started putting really well. and i wasn't hitting the ball very well but in augusta i started hitting the ball well and i couldn't make a put for the first day or two. i guess that happens, you start doing one thing well and the next one leaves you. about the third round i started making some puts and the fourth round i hit the ball well and rolled the table with -- >> but you started sunday morning at what? >> i think i was four shots back about eight players. >> eight players ahead. you were ninth and four shots back at the end of the front nine? >> i hasn't moved a lot.

front nine i shot one under. i remember -- i love the story because it got me going. i was standing and i hit it about 12 feet, maybe 14 feet. i was just about that much on the fringe and i was getting ready to hit my put and a big roar went up at the green it was ballesteros who made a wedge for an eagle and i walked around, i waited for it to calm down, i got back over the ball, suddenly another big roar. then tom kite with another wedge into the hole for an eagle. it sort of relaxed me because i had been very tense. i couldn't get relaxed and i turned to the crowd and said okay, they made some noise over here, let's make some noise here. and i knocked hit in the hole, it relaxed me and i got a 25-footer about the same length put at 11 and suddenly i moved myself into con democratic national convention. >> rose: then you're at 15 15-where you eagled it. >> i bogeyed 12 which was kind

of a -- probably actually probably the best thing that happened to me because it made me too nervous and kicked me in the rear end to say "get going." 15 i had a nice drive and i think i had woman to 214 to the hole and i said to my son jack -- >> rose: who's on the bag. >> my son jack was on the bag when i said how far do you think a three will go here? and i don't mean club. >> rose: (laughs) >> and he said dad, i think it can go a long way. i it this four-iron at about 12 feet and made the put. so all of a sudden i got myself back into convention and of course the next hole i hit a five-iron 175 yards i couldn't see the bottom of the flag and i it this shot and i knew it was perfect and jack said "be right!" and i reached down and i said "it is." it was the cockiest remark i ever made and the ball almost went in the hole and stopped

like that and as i walked over to 17th tee, i knew ballesteros was still right there and suddenly that horrible sound when you know that some people liked something and somebody doesn't like something and i knew he hit it in the water. so there were some cheers and people rooted for me. i it that cheer for bad shots and then there was a -- the groan from the players, the people that were actually following seve but i knew at that point that i was right there. >> rose: did you believe it? >> well, you know i was too caught up in the moment of playing and i hit my ball up the left side of the fairway, putted further left than i needed but i wanted to get the position to the right pin placement. >> so what was the emotion when you walked up the 18th? >> of course, i birdyed 17 but as i walked up 18 it was wild. it was an enormous reception which was just wonderful. you know, i had -- i remember

hitting my second shot and i'm still walking up and i remember i got tears in my eyes and i said "jack, don't do. this" i always get very emotional and i said "don't do this, you've got a lot to do yet. out've got a long put." because i thought i had about a 35, 40 foot put and i knew that i had to get in the two if i wanted any chance. of course i hit it up like that. but i didn't know what was going to happen on the golf course behind me. and kite was the first one to come in. kite had a good chance at 18 for birdy and he missed it. then norman makes four and five birdys in a row or something like that. gets back into contention and plays the last hole poorly but the excitement at 46 of winning another major championship i sat on the bag, my mother and sister who hadn't been to augusta since

1959 and my son steve was at hattiesburg working for john montgomery at the time putting on a golf tournament and he called in the morning and said "what do you think, pops?" i said "5 a win." he said "that's the exact number i have in mind. so i had everybody tuned in and it was neat. >> rose: is that the biggest victory you ever had for you? >> probably. i think they're all great. i can't pick one over the other but i think if you had to say what happened in '86 i didn't think i could win nobody else thought i could win. the players weren't afraid of me anymore. it was just -- it was nice. >> rose: here's a great story. you were cheering for tom watson at the british open at 59 years old having gone into sunday with the lead. you wanted him. >> oh, i'd love to see tom win. tom's a great friend, we played a lot of golf together.

>> rose: and a great rival, too. >> a great rival. rivals are rivals, you know? you know, great round today, you won, let's have dinner. but tom, i never text -- i'm not a texter and even though my wife says "you can't

tournaments you could have played. you tended at some point to focus just on the majors. x 6cj&id t i always played what i thought i needed to play to prepare myself to be properly prepared for the majors from a golf tournament , competition standpoint and i always wanted to build myself up to a tournament get as high as i could and let myself drop and then i always wanted to be down i could build myself back up to the next tournament and let myself drop again. so that's the way i played because -- >> what does that mean build yourself back up meaning -- >> meaning you're going to -- when the tournament is over i want to get away from it. and i let my -- all the edge and all the good things i'm doing -- >> rose: all the competitive juices and everything else just subsided. >> and i put my golf clubs away for a week or so that and then

suddenly i got back and i knew i would be rusty now i've got to get back in shape so i have to build myself back up and i always wanted to be just as sharp and anxious and ready at the end of the year as it was at the beginning and if i kept myself up i'd get burned out and i didn't want to do that. so to me it was playing the number i needed occasionally and occasionally i took the tournament out. most of the time it was -- i played 12, 16 tournamenta year. >> rose: right on the eve of the masters. legend is that young players come to you and say "what do i need to know?" and you offer advice. >> i've had a lot of young guys come to me. >> rose: what is it you impart to them? >> oh, i don't know. >> rose: a sense of the course? >> one of the pros the first time in the masters here about two days ago and -- >> rose: called you up? >> yeah, called up around i

don't need to mention who it is. >> rose: what did you tell him? >> he played last week. first time he'd ever been there so he's going to play in the town. and i went through golf course and i said okay, now there's about five or six shots in this golf course which we talked about earlier that you really have to watch out for and i said the "t" shot at two, you have to watch out for that. you have to watch out for the second shot at 11, watch out for the tee shot at 12, watch out for the tee shot at 13. you've got to make sure that you've got the right thing happening on your second shot on 15. you don't have to worry too much about the water but it can be an issue. those are the shots you need to veryry about. if you get those and keep them under control make sure you play them relatively conservatively and not try to win the golf tournament on shows shots because you either win or lose on those shots.

the rest of the course isn't that difficult. good solid golfing. that's basically what i tell most of the guys. i talk to him. get them to understand -- >> rose: understand your game, play within yourself and those thgs? >> and also you're going up to -- you're going to drive down magnolia lane. the atmosphere, the gallery it all builds up and you have to understand it, enjoy it. charlie, many times i get to the 14th or 15th hole and i'd be a shot ahead or even or something and i'd just stop and go -- take a couple big breaths and look around and see the people and say man, is this not fun? >> rose: (laughs) >> is this why i'm here and it would energize me to go finish the tournament. to me that's why i was there. for me to finish at noon on sunday and finish 30th is

something i have no desire to do but to come down the stretch of the golf tournament and have a chance to win that golf tournament and be there to enjoy and have fun with those people and yourself and the competition with your fellow competitor that's why we play the silly game. that's why we love it! >> rose: how painful was it to realize you couldn't play at the level you wanted to play it? >> you know, it's -- certain time in life that's going to happen and fortunately i had a balanced life. >> rose: exactly. >> if i hadn't had a balanced life it would have been tough for me but it didn't bother me. when i knew that i'd lost my vehicle to my competition -- competition is what i loved. golf just happened to be the vehicle to it. and so if -- i love playing golf obviously. but when i saw my skills eroding and i knew that i've got five kids, five grand kids, 22 great grand kids, i've got the ability

to go -- i mean, i'm -- barbara -- i didn't go to dade because you were coming. i missed a little school volleyball game and a high school volleyball game. >> rose: do you get joy out of that have? >> i love doing it! do i get joy out of it? absolutely! i love watch mig grand kids play. >> rose: somebody asked you how much credit did barbara deserve for the 18 majors and you said "maybe 15 of them." (laughs) >> that would be a good number. i want to give myself some credit. barbara was fantastic. the beauty about barbara is that barbara knew what she was taking on. she didn't know it exactly, she didn't know i was going to be a professional golfer but she knew i was an athlete and when we got married and i started playing golf she automatically as smart as she is she knew her life had to be second to mine otherwise i could never be successful she

never badgered me. we took time off, sure. why don't we go do do this? but never while i was playing. she always let me do what i had to do. she raised the kids. she always made sure that she'd get on an airplane after kids got out of school on friday and travel to california with three kids, a couple of them if diapers and she'd watch saturday and sunday and fly back with me how many women do that? she was fantastic. >> what's the difference in making it and not making it. >> well, i think it's whether you really want to. all four of my boys were good players. three of them were golf professionals, the other was close to a scratch player. >> rose: it's desire? >> well, i don't know. because they all played. they played pretty well i tried

not to push golf on them. i tried to make them -- i introduced them to every sport, let them make their own choices. they came back to golf because because it was their choice. but i think they came back to golf because they thought it would please me and they shouldn't have played because it would please me. it has to please them. they're all doing great now. >> rose: but you had the willpower to do it but at the same time you had to balance, too. a lot of people willpower meaning sacrificing everything in ordero do it. so life becomes not quite as -- >> i never let that happen. system >> when you say you love competition, is the competition with yourself and the course and not with the other player or is it to be number one.

>> to be as good as i can be so i can satisfy my desire to be as good as i can be. i worked at it and i walk away from it and i says you did pretty good. that's -- i don't have to tell everybody in the world that. i tell myself that i'm proud of the effort i can put it into and share it with somebody. shared it with my family. i felt when tiger first got married it would really help and i thought he played well after he got married. and i know he had a nice relationship. but he's going to get tired of coming home and saying "hey, butch, i want another one." "nice going, tiger." he's not sharing it with people. he came home and started sharing -- he had that unfortunate incident and so forth but, you know, sharing your life with somebody else and sharing it with your kids that's what life is all about. >> rose: speaking of tiger, do

you think he's back? >> he's back pretty good. he's playing pretty well. i have no idea what he's going to do at the master this is coming week but -- >> rose: seems to be in the right place. >> he's in the right place. he's playing well. >> rose: his schools didn't go away. what went away? the head? >> it would have to be. it would have to be -- what was in between his ears. i mean, his ability -- his ability, his work ethic, his focus, his -- you know his desire to be a good -- to be fit and be a good athlete all of a sudden -- and then it all fell apart and all of a sudden during that period of time all the other kids that were playing and scared of him were winning golf tournaments. now he comes back they're not scared of him anymore. he's got competition. i don't think tiger had tremendous competition through

most of this part of his majors the first time he came down the stretch against yaing in m.p.. and he got beat. that's the first time he got beat by somebody coming down the stretch. every other time they'd fallen apart and gone by the wayside and he won by default. not saying he didn't play well because he played well, he was a wonderful player but he was a smart player and he understood -- it was like weiskopf, he understood that that everybody knew he was going to win and beat him and they all -- and he knew it. so you have to understand that and when you that suddenly now i don't think he understands it that everybody else will fall apart so he's got an lot of good players. there was a derth of good players for a while and now i think we've got as many good players in the game as there's ever been. a lot of good players. >> rose: you believe hewill he

will get 18 majors? >> i think he will. >> rose: you've always said yi and you may have just said that to be nice. >> what else can i say? you want me to say no. >> rose: do you think it's less likely now -- >> it's obviously less likely. he's gone a few years, hasn't won any. do i think he will? do i think his talent will last? yes, i do. do i think that he is a terrific player and his desires are still there to break my record -- >> do you think the number of years he was at that place might have taken a toll? >> it's obviously less likely. he's got -- he's past three years without winning a major. almost four years now, isn't it? since '09. >> rose: what's the longest period of time you passed without wining? >> i had several periods of two or three years. >> rose: he's changed his swing a lot. is that a good thing? >> he never changed his swing. >> rose: it was always -- >> he's got a great golf swing. we all change our swing constantly. >> rose: but you -- >> we tinker with it and tiger's tinkering with his golf swing.

he's never made major changes. he'd made little changes which result in different ways that he plays. but every time he makes a change it becomes a newsworthy item. >> or if he changes coaches >> that's right. >> he once said and hogan may have said this, too, the capacity to know where the club is at every moment. >> yup. >> you had that. >> you better have it if you want to play. >> rose: but you played really good. i'm talking about having it at a level -- >> the best players know where it is. absolutely. >> rose: you did say that tiger has learned to play again now he has to learn to win again. >> he's learning to win again i said i think he'll break my record. i still think that but he still these do it what he has to do -- he's 38 years ole. he has to win five majors to pass me. he's got to win more majors than

anybody out there in a whole career and he's starting at 38. that's tough. but i still think he has the talent and i would be really stupid to say the i don't think there's anyone on the scene any more talented than tiger and he certainly is -- look at what he's done this year. >> rose: on the next charlie rose, part two of my conversation with jack nicklaus from his home in florida. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org