metropolitan revolution. >> the good news is that cities and metros are using the resources there. the networks of philanthropists, business leaders, university leader, not just government leaders to solve all kinds of problems. they're reinvig raising manufacturing, welcoming immigrants, helping workers get the skills they need and we think that these kinds of things can happen in any metropolitan area, that's why we call it a revolution. >> we continue with architect vishaan chakrabarti. his book is called a country of cities, a manifesto for

an urban america. >> one of the things i think is so important here is this is not just some kind of pipe dream about what's happening. more people are moving to cities today than in suburbs in the united states since the 1920s. it's driven by young people. there's a new urban generation in this country. >> rose: and finally this evening we look at presidential libraries with margaret russelled editor of architectural digest and two architects robert stern and james polshek. >> at the bush library there are 43,000 artifacts from cowboy boots to sabres to jewelry that they have on rotating exhibit. the permanent exhi business there is really marvelous. and so interactive and i think really geared toward teaching people about the idea of the presidency. when i looked-- when i was speaking about the two libraries, with the bush library it's very much about the decision-making, the presidency, the white house, the dignity of that office. with the clinton library and

museum it's interesting, it's the time line of clinton's time in office. and it's also very educational and engaging. i think both libraries are reaching out as much as possible to people who are not necessarily involved in the political process. >> rose: a look at the new urban life and also presidential libraries when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following:

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. . cities and metropolitan areas are the new engines of economic growth and social transformation in this country. local governments have increasingly taken on the big issues that washington has not been able to solve. david brooks wrote recently in the "new york times" the happiest people these days are those who leave washington and get elected mayor or governor. many of this country's most notable mayors have appeared on this program to talk about the enormous strides at work in today's cities. >> this is the single greatest job i had in public life, i have had great jobs. i just saw president clinton, president obama last week,

loved working for both of them. local governments is a government closest to how people live their lives. and if you are's interested in whether it's education, parks, libraries, universities, this is where it affects their lives. >> you have to perform. you have to get things done. you have to make things happen. all of us sitting around this table we see in our various state governments and we look at what goes on in washington. we could never get away with some of the stuff that goes on in those other places. you either fill the pothole or didn't. you either had the swimming pool open or you don't. people respond to 911 or they didn't. you know where we are and hear about. i never have to wonder what is on a philadelphiaan's mind because they will tell me wherever i am. that is what this job is all about. >> they found working close together, that's what we do in cities. we're the place, the hot bed as you said culture, education. because we are in this concentrated area where like-minded people can thrive and grow and create

off of each other. and you can't get that, you know from a monitor at your house. >> i always said one of the reasons i left this company after 20 years was, number one, i don't think anything should go on more than 20 years or even that length of time. it's good for the stockholders and the employees and customers to have new blood. but also i have friends who really did get enormous satisfaction about what they were doing to make a difference. and people kept saying government doesn't work and i kept saying well, you know, there's no reason why you can't make it work. >> the new book, a metropolitan revolution looks at this new movement. joining me now are the book's authors, bruce katz and jennifer bradley both of the brookings metropolitan program. i'm pleased to see them here. why is it happening in cities? >> i think it's happening in cities and metropolitan areas because they understand that washington is to the coming to the rescue. the calf allry is to the coming. the good news is that cities

and metros are using the resources there, the networks of philanthropist, business leaders to the just government leaders to solve all kinds of problems. they're reinvigorating manufacturing, welcoming immigrants, helping workers get the skills they need. we think that these kinds of things can happen in any metropolitan area. that's why we call it a revolution. we think it's that powerfulness tell me pore about why it's a revolution. >> a revolution generally means a change in how you think about things. from an early age we have been taught we have a president and vice president and congress. they sit on top of our system and they rain down resources and rules. but the real power in this country actually is in cities and metropolitan contraries because these are the engines of the economy, centers of trade and investment. top 100 metros so only one ace of the land mast, two-thirds of the population, three quarters of the gdp and on every indicator that matters, infrastructure and human capital and innovation. 75, 80, 85, 90% of the

nations share. there really is no american economy. what we have is a network of metro economies and they're now stepping up and doing the hard work. >> but at the same time we all know that some of the toughest economic challenges are the state and local level. >> absolutely. but the great thing about metropolitan areas is they're not just governments. you know, the federal government is a government. state governments are government, metropolitan areas are networks. and we see that these networks are finding really creative and beneficial ways. >> rose: networks between what? >> networks of different companies, different philanthropic groups, different individuals, all coming together. they have loose or tight connections. and they can fund things more-- in a more creative or interesting way. so for example, when northeast ohio needed to reinvague rates economy, it drew on a network of philanthropis. they came together and said we need to figure out how to better support manufacturing. and how to better support small and medium sized manufacturers and trained

workers. so there's a lot of-- if you open up to thinking at the metropolitan scale and get out of the purely government mind-set, a whole lot of resources open up and become present. >> is it a part of the reality of metropolitan areas that that is where you will find the finest expression of talent? >> absolutely. this is why they punch their weight. because we have a concentration, an agglomeration of talent, of advanced research institutions, of innovative firms and an entire ecosystem around those firms. who's educating the workers, who is stilling the workers. who is providing marketing advice and strategic advice, whereas the infrastructure to pov goods and services and energy and ideas. all this comes together in cities and metros. and frankly, that's why china is rising or india is rising because they're urbanize og. when you urbanize. >> china just announced a huge new program, incredible program. 250 million people into their cities.

>> why was the recession that we just went through so important? >> i think the recession was a wake-up call for cities in metropolitan areas. after the stimulus happened people realized that there was no second bite of the apple. that after this they were on their own. it was to the going to be help from the federal government. and so they said it's on us. so, for example, in new york the bloomberg administration and the city's economic development administration knew that they had to diversify the economy. and so they launched an initiative to bring a lot more tech talent to redirect new york's economy and reshape it for the next generation. >> can you make the argument that unlike washington where there's gridlock, there is less partisanship. >> absolutely. when bruce and i go into a city or metropolitan area we can't tell who's a republican and who is a democrat. people there want to get stuff done. that's what really matters to them. it's like michael said, they can't get away from it.

there's not as laguardia said-- . >> rose: too lazy to fix a pothole is what he said. >> exactly. >> we call this the pragmatic caucus. they put place over party, collaboration over conflict, evidence over dogma. part shan-- partisanship is not really the issue. >> rose: so we're rethinking federalism in part. >> i think we're absolutely rethinking federalism. in our sense, metros now innovation the fed's response, it's an inversion, this hierarchy of power that is shifting in the u.s. because the engines, 69 economy, the centers of trade and investment, the vehicles for social progress, it's the cities of the met poll-- metropolitan areas. >> what happens if the federal government can't work. see the necessity of cities and states working. >> i think the federal government needs to do what cities can't do. and that's the first rea real-- portfolio for them. cities can't protect the food supplies, they can't

secure a border. we're to the going have cities strike trade deals with china by themselves. >> they might, i'm not so sure of that. >> and also the safety net. >> rose: there is a-- you look at the trade area. i grew up in the south. they have a pilgrimmages to europe to get bmw to locate a plant, the whole competition. bill clinton used to do this regularly when he was governor of arkansas, to go and get foreign companies to invest in europe. >> but i think we want is for the national government to do what they need to do well. and then for everything else, be in the service of cities and metropolitan areas because they really need to set the vision, set the priorities. you know, trades for the world is different from pittsburgh. same for denver versus detroit. you can't really have a one size fits all when you talk about growing an economy or restructuring economy. you really want the cities and metros to lead and the national government to be in service. >> are they better able to

deal with diversity? >> absolutely. one of the examples we talk about in our book is houston. there's a 21st century settlement house in houston called neighborhood centers inc. and what they understand is that immigrants come to this country to work. and they embrace diversity. houston both actually that it's the most diverse city in the country. even more diverse than new york, even more diverse than los angeles. they understand that that's their strength. it gives them strength internationally right because you have people who have contacts with home countries, can do import, export or other work. it's a refreshing of the talent pool. if you don't have immigrants wanting to come to your metropolitan area, you're in trouble. >> and awe tract people for obvious reasons, education, culture, jobs. >> and opportunities, right. so some people, you've got high skilled immigrants coming for their reasons. you've also got low skilled immigrants and the task of

metropolitan areas because it really is up to them. as bruce likes to say, the federal government has an immigration policy. local places have to have an immigrant policy. they have to deal with people who are here. so the best are taking these people who come to america and want to work and giving them the skills they need. giving them access to banking services, to health services, getting their kid foos good charter schools because they know that is an asset especially when you have an aging native population. we need immigrants to fill jobs and drive the economy forward. >> rose: what is this going to do to the politics of our country. >> what bruce and i hope is that this will give us a new model of politics where things actually can get done. and people understand that partisan posturing is often a waste of time. we think that once people understand how much they can really do with their metro level, they will-- there will be a hunger for more and will you see more metropolitan innovation spreading. and the next step after that is that metros will understand that they need to come together across the

country and demand change in washington. in los angeles, for example, the citizens voted to tax themselves in the middle of the great recession in 2008 to build a better transit system. they needed a federal loan to start building soon so they could put a lot of people to work on this transit system but the federal program wasn't suited to their needs. so the mayor built a nationwide coalition, mayors of other parties, mayor scott smith who is a republican, and they went to washington and said guys, come on. the transportation program can't be about your convenience. it's got to be about the way we're actually building things. and they've got a change in the law. imagine if metropolitan area kos come together on tons of issues. on health, on education, on science funding and say you're not zfbing us. and that's your job. >> the numbers did a lot. >> absolutely. >> i thought you were going to say they got together and went to china to get the money. >> they tried that first. >> they tried, yes.

>> rose: the metropolitan revolution, how cities and metros are fixing our broken politics and fragile economy, bruce katz and jennifer bradley, thank you. >> thanks for having us. >> rose: vishaan chakrabarti is here, he is also a paner at shop architect, shop was affirmed behind the construction of the barkley center in brooklyn, they also proposed major derochl derochlt-- redevelopment plans for pen station from 2002 to 2005 he worked at the new york department of planning and in that role oversaw the reconstruction of lower manhattan after 9/11 and the transportation of the high line. his new book is called a country of cities, a manifesto for an urban america. i'm pleased to have him here at this table. he is a neighbor of mine and i have known him for a while. in the country. a manifesto, you say. >> yes, a manifesto. >> and the manifesto is that we should be building a country of cities which means a more urban america, an america that is stronger

environmentally, economically and socially. you know charlie, i've been an architect and planner for 20 years now. as i teach and practice and travel what i really notice is that i believe the cities are a silver bullet to solve most of the major problems we have in this country and by extension the world. >> rose: how is that? >> well, if you look at the data, and the data are pretty astounding and quite dispose difficult. economically, for instance, 90% of the gdp of the united states and 86% of u.s. jobs are generated on 3% of the landmass of the continental united states, extraordinary numbers. >> on 3% of the lan mass. >> yes. and of course one of the issues we have is that cities don't get to keep a lot of the wealth that they generate and that's why we don't quite have the infrastructure and so forth. so that is the economic story, on the environmental story it is kler the urban if the print is less than

someone who lives in the suburbs, to the because of green bells and whistles but actually because they use mass transit and they live in apartments that heat and cool each other. and then on the social score it seems fairly evident at this point. the suburbs are actually getting poorer in some parts of america. and social mobility is much harder in suburban environments. cities are doing more in terms of building affordable housing, of getting job opportunities to poorer income, lower income residentss. and so just on every major score, and the u.n. has this thing, the three 3s,-- three es, the environment, the economy and social equity. on those three we're doing much better on cities than suburbs, that's clear. >> what happen tossed its suburbs? >> well, i think the thing to remember about suburbs and sometime people call the bock an anti-suburban book. i don't think it is an anti-suburban book. all i'm saying is that if people want to live in suburbs fine, but we

shouldn't pay people to do it one of the things the book tries to unearth is that a massive amount of subsidy since world war ii has gone into the design and proliferation of suburbs. well over 100 billion a year and mortgage interest deduction which is largely a suburban deduction. largely a deduction for wealthy people. the fact that we have seen all sorts of money get drained from urban centers to suburban centers in terms of schools and infrastructure and so forth. and really it's been by design it has not been by pure market forces that we have the landscape we have in america. >> rose: here's what foreman foster you said in the forward of the book why did you issues norman foster. >> well, norman is a friend and someone who i have always looked up to in terms of his architecture, certainly. but i think more importantly in terms of the context of the book, norman has always believed in the inherent sustainability of cities. and i think is one of the great global urban

architects in terms of what he designs and builds. so he was a natural to write the forward. >> rose: he said we have to build to higher densities in order to qon serve land and reduce energy use. you must create neighborhoods that combine workplace with housing and where transport connections, schools, parks and other amenities are all within walking or cycling distance. most important we have to cretin separational urban environments where people want to live. what is an inspirational urban environment. >> i think it's an environment, first of all, that people feel at home in in terms of great schools, great parks, great infrastructure, great way to walk to work. but then beyond that obviously great design and great architecture. >> rose: right, right. >> and we don't have enough of that in the city and in many cities. >> rose: it's ease looez provable, is it, that if in fact you have great architecture at work in cities people feel better, are more attracted to that? >> i think that's quite clear. and you mentioned the high line. of course we've seen an amazing amount of innovative

architecture being built around the high line. and it's really upped, i think, the ante for all of new york in terms of a place to come visit. and for people worldwide to come visit and for people who want to live and work there. >> rose: this is also wonderful, there is the dedication. for my parents who came from humble villages and immersed me in the world cities, may they find peace on this, their final voyage. >> i lost my parents quite early in their lives. my father died at 60 and my mother at 70. and what i really wanted to dedicate the book to them because they literally did come from very humble roots. my father from a villeage that barely has electricity and running water. and yet they came to this country with two small kids, $32, and -- >> $32 and they built a life for us. and one of the things that they were so insistent upon,

even when you know we tooled around in a dodge dart and my dad i think made like $19,000 a year in 1973. we always traveled the world. they always found a way to bring us to paris to see the louvre, to go to cities all over the world. >> with with. >> that deeply influenced me. >> coming from a small village in india. >> i think many people find in cities a kind of solace and a chance to reinvent themselves. and for them, i think, they did it with a great sense of adventure. it's interesting now when people want to move someplace with their kids they need expats packages and all sorts of things that, you know, i think most older generations of immigrants, my wife included, her family also came from greece, very, very kind of poor roots. but managed to page a life here and travel and so forth. >> rose: when did you know you wanted to be an arc tkt? >> fairly young.

you know, usually its disease sets in when are you playing with legos in your room when are you five and can think of nothing better to do. and so yeah, fairly young. and architect yes but an urban architect, someone who always wanted to influence the physical course of cities. >> rose: and when you look at architecture in the city of new york, how would you measure it over the last ten years? >> architecture. >> architecture. >> it certainly has improved i think a great deal from what was being built in the 80s and 90s. we had, i think, greateras, certainly the era of-- which is a touchstone for our firm. but you know, other eras where we had great architecture coming out of new york city. at the end of the 20th century it was not the great moment for architecture. suddenly in the last ten years i think in part because of the bloomberg administration but just also because of a transformation

which new york is understood in a different way, even if you look at pop culture and movies and so forth. that we become a much more international city than we were. and i think that has brought in a lot of international talent which i think is all to the good. >> rose: architecture it really is true today an maybe it has always been so, the best architects are building all over the world. >> yes. >> rose: sir norman post never china. >> norman is building in many, many places. it's interesting in terms of shop's work our primary international work is actually in africa. we're doing a large technology hub in bots wanto. we're actually starting to plan a city outside of nairobi and we're very excited about that. >> rose: what is the quality of the urban design, sort of, the structure that you work with at the governmental level? >> i think in a situation like that you really have to start from the instruct-- infrastructure and you really have to understand where the water lines and sewer lines and

electricity and really build up from that. and then look at the natural landscape and look at the culture and understand how you can reflect that in the architecture. >> you say that cities can create prosperity, sustainability, health and joy. we just had a conversation about how more economic prosperity comes out of cities than anywhere. >> right. >> and that there is a new focus on cities and local areas, metropolitan areas. >> right. >> because washington has failed in a sense. >> yes. >> they're engaged in gridlock. >> yes. >> and if cities you have the most direct connection between the political and the experiential. >> yes. >> rose: this where it happens, where the rubber meets the ground so to speak. >> that's right. >> rose: so cities become lab rathers. >> cities laboratories and we're seeing all sorts of innovation certainly in terms of public health if you look at bicycling and different ordinances that are being passed but i also

think cities, certainly in this country and pain places around the world are the most successful form of government that we have. if you look at washington, if you look at state houses and so forth. city government is functioning very well. and i think one of the things that we're going to see in this newera of climate change is cities will take actions where nation states will not. >> "new york" magazine wrote of you, densitind public transportation are the cojoined twins of national city planning. >> i think that's absolutely correct. you know it's not about density for density's sake. it's not just about building skyscrapers off in the desert somewhere. it's really about that special alchemy that comes between building dense urban living and all the mass transit that supports it. i take the subway every where. i think it is the fastest way to get around town. >> it is indeed. >> it's a joy because you can read. you can work. you can listen music. and you are not trying to text while you drive.

>> right, right. >> what's interesting too is that i just saw a thing, we did a thing on cbs this morning, a report on its second avenue subway. and to go inside to see the mammoth effort it requires to create a subway and what they have had to do. it's an extraordinary engineering miracle. >> its's unbelievable an to think that the majority of our subway systems around the country were built a hundred years ago. it is amazing. and we're to the doing enough of it we're doing quite a bit of that kind of construction in the city today but i believe we're fundamentally not doing enough especially in this city the way in wit outer boroughs are growing, queens is growing that we need to think about -- >> it is an interesting idea because you look to understand what you have written, you look at the boroughs outer, queen and brooklyn, they have an identity of their own. but we tend to think of new york in some people's mind as man man. >> yes. >> and what you are saying

is that these places have to be more connected. and we have to view as an extension of the experience of manhattan in a sense, aren't you? what is your view of what the boroughs can represent? >> i think the outer boroughs, in terms of new york, the topics i want to turn to next is this city of a city of cities in which if you think about this city and many actually cities around the world only ten years ago, they were the hub and spoke model. everyone came into a downtown, left and want home at the end of the day. we're now seeing is around new york city, certainly, a network of places where people live, work and play. >> rose: is there an urban renaissance around the world? >> i believe there is. i mean but i think we need to be careful with it. in the sense that you hear very commonly now that there are more people live income cities than in rural areas around the world. and there is this break point around 2007 when that occurred. what i actually think has

happened is that more people are suburbanizing around the world. one of the things that scares me as a travel-- . >> rose: more people are suburbanizing. >> yes, what i really see as i go from place to place are the suburbs growing at a very rapid rate around beijing, shanghai, riyadh, you name major cities growing and you see this amazing amount of spral that is really a -- >> sao paolo. >> yes. so one of the big challenges, and i believe that if we build a more urban, more sustainable, more prosperous america built around the idea of better american cities, that other countries that are developing are going to follow suit. >> rose: you have said about suburbanization, reckless suburbanization of suburban sprawl is arguably the leading cause of the pressing challenges from foreclosure, unfunded schools to spiraling health-care costs to climate change, to oil wars and the rest. >> yes. >> and it's really, and

again it's not just about the suburbs. it's about the subsidy system. and i think it's very, it's interesting. when you saw some of the tea party rallies about get your government hands-off my medicare, right this is one of those classic ideas that somehow people believe they're not subsidized. of course the lie ways, the oil & gas industry, there's a whole series of subsidies that go into this especially the mortgage interest deduction which has been criticized from both the left and right side of the aisle. and i think if we start to rethink that subsidy regime we could fine ourselves in a very different role. >> when they top tax reform they do put all those things into consideration. >> they do. >> we will see how the force as line and see what happens. >> one of the things i think is so important here, is this is not just some kind of pipe dream about what's happening. more people are moving to cities today than in suburbs in the united states since the 1920s. it's driven by young people. there's a new urban generation in this country. >> so you teach at columbia.

>> yes. >> so you write books. >> yes. >> when dow have time to architect? >> i spend a great deal of time designing, actually. and i have great partners. and one of the things that's very unique about shop is we are a practice of seven partners. and so i'm almost all of us teach. we have many other interests that we try to bring into the practice. and so we can also cover for each other. there's never just one partner on a big job. and so we're able to give each other the latitude to do other interesting things out there. it's part of who we are. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> absolutely, my pleasure. >> rose: the book is called a country of cities, a manifesto for urban america. back in a moment. stay with us. z franklin dell a nor roose vaelt ban the tradition of presidential libraries in 1939. before that those official papers had no homes. george washington took his back to mount vernon but never built an archive for them. they were eaten by rats.

chester arthur burned his papers in a trash can. abraham lincoln's did not meet such a fate but his family refused to release his records in 1957. since roosevelt's time presidential libraries have grown in size and in function. they speak to the dignity of the office of president. they are major centers for scholarship. they house think tanks and museums. and they're designed by some of the world's greatest architects. joining me is margaret russell, editor of architectural digest which just published an article about the george w. bush presidential center in dallas. and robert stern, the architect who designed the center which opened on may 1st. and james polshek designed the and par which opened in little rock in 2004. i am pleased to have them here at this table. welcome, welcome. >> thank you. >> let me begin with you. give me a sense of how this whole thing of presidential libraries got started and where it has grown to. >> well, as you said

franklin roosevelt was the first president to set aside his papers feeling that the citizens of america had a right to access to find out what had happened during the presidency. and from there it has grown. and as you can see there are 13 libraries now. this is the 13th. and they've grown in scale. they're so different now from the beginning. if you have been to fdr's library technology and environmental design, i think, is so much a part of it. things that were never anticipated in the past. we did this story on the library and the magazine because its library is done by an important architect and it's an important building for this nation at a very important time. these libraries are really a memoir i think for a president. they celebrate the legacy and administration, it's a snapshot of what happened during that time. so many people think of libraries as being closed bases or you take out books. and i think the standard of

idea of a library has developed so much over the past few years. these libraries and museums are really so vital and so alive. and especially the bush library and the clinton library. >> it always begins with the choice as to where to put the library which often is a product of a number of factors not necessarily one thing. >> absolutely. and some presidents have chosen to be associated with the university, with clinton and with president clinton and little rock. he has a school to you associated with his library. i think its sense that being on the university campus drives attention. you can work with the students and the professors. i think in order for a library to remain vital you want to make sure that you're always relevant and always changing and those have been the most successful libraries. >> president obama will face this choice coming up. >> absolutely. >> shortly. >> shortly indeed. >> thinking about it already. >> perhaps. certainly chicago will probably be among the considered cities. >> i would be pretty surprised if it's not in

chicago, probably near the university. >> chicago i think. >> rose: it will be an interesting question for him. what happens when you get the commission to create a presidential library? what is it that you are looking to understand? >> well, for the bush library we first of all this is the first library built in the 21st century. and the whole, it's not about paper archives any more. it's about electronic archives. so the white house generates a million e-mails every day, something like that. so that was an entire new technical issue for the national archives to run the libraries afterwards. and then the secretary thing was that it is on a campus as margaret says. we were trying to fit the building into the campus scene, the southern methodist university, smu is a beautiful georgian style campus that was all built in the 20th centuries, 20th

century campus. and they were very much involved in the process. so we had to work with that, president gerald turn are and the other thing is the institute, the policy institute that the bush established is physically attached to the library which is a little different from clintons or anybody else before. so for example hoover who actually was the first one to save his papers. but he didn't build a buildingment but hoover's papers are at standford and hoover's library is in iowa where he grew up. >> but the hoover institution -- >> standford. but with bush they're all together so what margaret was saying about the interactivity of people that was what we were really looking for, to make this thing work. >> so you go talk to the president. what does he say? >> it's sophomoric. >> not quite but it was laura bush's project. and there was a small committee of people who we work with. but really laura bush was a great client and she was involved. this was started when he was still the president as i'm

sure jim's work with clinton. and so the president couldn't be involved while he is still in office. >> let's talk about it. this is also in the new york presidential digest edition in june 2013. let's look at some of the clyde slides from the bush library and talk about libraries in general. the interesting thing before we talk about the bush library this is bush 41. his father's library is at texas a & m. and university, who designed that? >> i think hlk. >> hlk, okay, what is hlk. >> hell multio batsa and-- out of slant st. louis. >> long gone -- >> let's take a look at this, the first slide. there you g tell me what you are looking at. >> at the side of the building facing a brand-new park that michael van colecanberg and i worked on together. that is where all the offices of the fellows and interns and all of those people will be, are behind

that screened wall. and at the top floor there is a suite of rooms which the bushes and other high ranking people can use to entertain dignitaries who will come. they expect to bring an international array of people for the next 30, 40 years. >> does the president and the former first lady have an apartment there? >> no, they chose not to have an apartment there but they do have their offices there. >> yeah. >> they have a house. dedecided they didn't want to live above the store. >> i know. next slide. >> at the entrance to the institute which faces the smu campus for maximum interactivity between faculty and students. it's also designed to be an official reception area for you know sharon peres, that is where he comes. here is the public entrance. you can look through to see a courtyard beyond and you see in the center of the building this hall of freedom which as a lantern which is a symbol of the building, rising above the

low slung mass. >> driving theme of the museum in this library is freedom. >> freedom, absolutely. >> the next one. >> that's another view of the same central courtyard. the collanade is there to protect people from the two extremes of dallas weather, brutal summer heat and extreme rain and hailstorms from time to time. >> the presidential library is getting an increasing number of visitors as they become prominent. >> they are, absolutely. even though it's called a library it's really the museum exhibits i think that attract 90% of visiters. >> the artifacts of that, the historical record of the presidency or -- >> i think the historical record of the presidency but also with the bush library there are 43,000 artifacts from cowboy boots to sabres to jewelry. that they have on rotating exhibit. the permanent exhi business there is really marvelous. and so interactive and i think really geared towards teaching people about the

idea of the presidency. when i looked at-- when i was thinking about the two libraries, the bush library it's very much about the decision making, the presidency, the white house, the dignity of that office. with the clinton library and museum it's interesting. it's the time line of clinton's time in office and it's also very educational and engaging and i think both libraries are reaching out as much as possible to people who are not necessarily involved in the political process. >> how did you get to do the clinton library? was there a competition? >> no. well, there was competition but it was unannounced competition. not long before the prisker prize dinner was honoring renzo-- was held at the white house, there were many architects there who were conscious that this was the end of eight years. i was in paris. i didn't go to the dinner.

but he had trouble finding an architect. he interviewed a lot of people. >> what was the problem? >> chemistry i think, to a large extent. he just felt he wanted to be comfortable. he likes to talk as you know. and he, he has ideas. he wants a respondent. and so that, when we were called through a series of kind of accidents, really, it turned out that he had been, or hillary had been familiar with three or four of our buildings. the rose center had recently been completed. king warren carlos of spain centered nyu had been dedicated by the king and queen recently. and he went to the inventors hall of fame in ago ron. he had seen these and i got a call to come down to the white house. i had a partner in arms

richard alcott who came with me. but better than that, a young man named kevin mcclerken who had worked in the office a long time, gone to school in arkansas, his parents were from, i think from little rock or pine bluff. i brought him along and it was chemically the right thing to do. they met. he gripped them with two hands and he asked them are you part of those mcclerkens or these mcclerkens. and we were off to a very nice start it was a very friendly session. we didn't have the job yet. we were being interviewed. >> rose: okay, here is the case with be box the bush wanted to put it in a place that already had an architecture style. you don't have that issue. >> the opposite, absolutely opposite it was in a kind of toxic dump in a way, old industrial building, some of which really did have toxic soil under them. he wanted it in that location. he asked at that first meeting in the white house if we would go out there, take a look. as he put it i think word

for word do one of those little drawings that you architect does on napkins and we'll come back here and talk about it. we loved it immediately. for two reasons. two artifacts that existed there, not the industrial dump. there is a 1901 or 1899 railroad station which is where the clinton center for public service is and there was a 1200 foot railroad bridge that had belonged to the union pacific. the intention was to tear it down, to open it up. and we immediately said keep the railroad bridge, restore it chalktaw. it gave us a historic context for the place. >> rose: so the river gave you historical context too. >> the river-- and so in a way it was all about landscape. the president wanted it. we wanted it to make it part of a public park system for the city of little rock. and that's what has

happened. >> rose: let's look at some of this and see what jim did for the clinton library. describe this, jim. >> it's-- in simplest terms it's a 400 foot long box about 80 feet wide. almost, almost square, not quite, within our three leveling. it's raised above the landscape, why? because it's preserved the opportunity for not just visual penetration through the site but for people to walk under the can't lever and along the rivers edge. >> and it didn't start that way. we first showed him three schemes. they were all parallel to the river. the views were in the water, seemed common sense and it's too long of a story to go into. but at a certain point together with the exhibit designer ralph applebottom we turned the building perpendicular to the river and elevated it. there were some challenges from the national archives

people. there were even more challenges from the secret service. there were concerned about the can't lever and-- the cantilever so they made us pull it back about 20 feet so it wasn't too far over the water. but in the end -- >> what were they worried about? >> they were worried about boats pulling up underneath and detonating. there is always something to worry about. i noticed at the bush library like at our library it is a world of ballards. >> well, ours is even more strictly controlled than yours. because it was built, designed after 9/11 2001. so the security is much higher. >> now the interesting thing b i think you were the first place where there was an emphasis on the digital collection. >> that's correct. however he like president bush and like president reagan, is a two term president. there are 80 million pieces of paper. there were 80,000 objects including a mustang that he owned. all of that had to be housed. we're near a river.

a flood plane is a major issue and it is for that reason that there isn't one entrance for scholars and for public. because the archives is essentially underground. only the scholars reading rooms were in public. >> before both of did you this did you go and visit every presidential library in order to get a sense or did you try to acquaint yourself with them. did you want to see what was done for president reagan? >> i've been to some but i haven't been to all of them. >> i've been to 7 or 8. >> i mean-- including reagans, as a matter of fact. reagans was very interesting because it's up in-- it's not where he wanted it originally. it had no real association but it's in a suburban, ex-urban area and landscaped. >> ex-urban. >> simi valley. that's interesting. both kennedy and reagan, that was not their first choice of where to have their libraries. in both cases there were collegiate conflicts. there were faculties that said we don't want this on

the harvard campus. we don't want this at ucla i think it was ucla. >> i can't remember. >> and so real estate developer friend gave the land. >> the bush is the first one. >> reagan. >> the bush one is the first one to really put together a coalition shall we say with a university, and there was a little storm but at the got over it. >> clinton, the university of arkansas is part and parcel. >> but it's not on the campus. >> it is not on the campus. >> we were right on the campus. i actually, i'm going to plug a book called buildings memories which is going to come out in december, that we were talking about before. in the chapter on clinton as it begins there are little miniphotos of nine of the libraries. and i had made the observation after visiting most of them that like

owners and pets, dogs in particular, the libraries come to resemble in a certain way the president that they serve as a legacy. i mean johnson is a classic. >> i will give you a quote about that. this is from president of the-- anna nelson. she said the truman library introduces philip panache, johnson is texas big and showy, carter is southern and pleasant and sprawling, eisenhower removed, distant. and whether you agree with all of that, that is sort of what you are talking about. >> it is, exactly. >> roosevelt's was very personal. roosevelt actually sketched his own library out. he was an amateur architect and worked with a cousin to do the design. so it was the closest absolute reflection of the actual president's interests. >> rose: wasn't there some controversy with the carter library about access in atlanta? >> well, that is something that they had to move-- .

>> rose: they had to move a road. >> access in a big way too. because reagan's library, carter's library, kennedy a library even though in urban centers are extremely difficult to get to. so that kind of access. president clinton was very concerned t was the first thing he said. i want to be right here in the town facing the town, with the people. so he had a lot of people telling him tear down the railroad bridge. and he insisted. and it's to you been restored, a landscape pedestrian over the river. >> parg receipt what are the criticisms of presidential libraries? >> they're polarizing. they're polarizing because people have a lot to say about the buildings themselves. and about the presidents that they're celebrates. we got a great deal of mail about the bush library. both pro and con. and both pro and con regarding the building. >> rose: about what, about

the building or about because they didn't like the presidency of president bush in this case, so therefore they're critical of a presidential library devote food his presidency. >> everything, to be honest, everything. but it's funny, a building like this, there are so buildings so closely associated with just one person or one administration. so it does, it creates a lot of drama and it was interesting to see the letters. they were very much, you could tell the background to whoever was writing to me about it. and most of the architecture ones were very positive. the people have a lot to say about that. >> did it cover the impeachment? >> yes. >> it does. >> yeah, but not, it's not the first of the series of issue alcoves that occupy the first floor that you get to after moving out. >> but it is, it is discussed there. >> and the reagan library. >> i mean and the nixon library just discusses watergate? >> in the case of the since you mention the reagan

library, iran contrawas not in the picture at the beginning. >> not in the picture. >> no, it was just kind of washed clean. since that times that's changed, in the johnson library the war in vietnam was played down almost to the level of invisibility. now that's been collected. >> the exhibits get redone. >> aw. >> first of all they get tired looking physically but second of all as reinteferptions come the kennedy library i believe is about to completely redo its exhibits. >> it's not the first time. >> no. and the reagan library has gone through changes, to be more relevant. the nixon library is so interesting because the family ran it for so long because the papers had been impounded. there was no library. there was a library without-- it wasn't run by nara i think 2007 the papers were turned over to the government. >> are they all accessible now, electronically so you don't have to go to the library to access the

papers? >> no, no. >> and they're not accessible for 12 years after the president leaves office. >> yeah. >> so right now what is happening it in the bush library and it's probably already happened mostly at the clinton library is the archivists are there sorting through and getting ready for scholars but the scholars cannot come yet because it's still classified information. >> and how many years. >> i think 12, i think 12, i'm not sure but i think i'm right. >> you're the deal of the yale architecture school. >> yes what is it schooled. >> yale school of architecture. >> rose: are the young architects different today than they were say 10 or 15 years ago? >> oh, well they're always different-of-ree minute. but yes. >> rose: are they driven by different reasons to be architects, as the challenge of the profession produced a different type of person who is interested, et cetera? >> i think they're all its same kind of person, independent, art

artistically inclined but the issues they are interested in changed. >> rose: what are they interested in now. >> well, the role of the computer is a completely obsessive. >> rose: because it gives them new power. >> they think, we hope. >> but there is some doubt about that. >> rose: can't you measure structure and all that. >> they use different materials. >> absolutely. and the computer with its capacity to fabricate things digitally may make architects back into the craftsman that they dream of being in a way. the results are not clear. >> in a way is right. the old guys are a little suspicious that this may not happen. >> rose: so in journalism we have halls of fame, in poll particulars there are certain kinds of halls of fame, certainly in sports there are halls of fame. is there a hall of fame for architects? is there some -- >> the nearest thing is the prizes, pritzker, what ever. >> rose: there is no hall of

fame but there the hall of fame is a memorial to those journalists who perished while working. but there is journalism and architecture have a lot of par levels. >> rose: really, tell me you what think they are. >> being underpaid is one. >> rose: that's loan slightly tongue-in-cheek. >> well, i think the necessary-- the necessity to actively engage with the body politic. a kind of idealism and i still believe-- . >> rose: what makes people go into these professions. >> precisely that and probably i don't know this for sure but you know in law there is a very early burnout level. in medicine a little longer. but in architecture, it's an old man's game. >> just not old persons, please. be careful. >> persons. >> i'm out of the dean's chair. i don't have to worry about that any more. >> be careful.

>> rose: but the idea is that's true, that look at a whole range of architects who are over 70 who are practicingev ree day and doing good work. >> the leading architects in the world are, a large number of them are over 70. the names that come up always are pretty old people. >> rose: has the idea of the star architect continued to have big significance or is it declining a bit. >> it's fading as stars fade. you can't be up there all the time. and if something is dated the pritzker prize itself was questioned in i thought a very intelligent editorial in the architects newspaper this week. yeah. as to whether is it really necessary to continue to deny the truth of collaboration, the fact that this is not a one pan game, the kind of marketing aspect of being a successful architect. it's easy for me to talk

about that now that i'm you know writing side saddle. >> rose: thank you, bob. thank you, jim. are are are are are are captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org