this week on "moyers & company" -- "a place at the table." >> when we were making this film we traveled all over the country, and again and again met people who were working and trying to make ends meet but were not able to put food on the table. >> there's no opportunity for people who are low income to really engage in our democracy. and i think that they're actively shut out as well. >> announcer: funding is provided by -- carnegie corporation of new york, celebrating 100 years of philanthropy, and committed to doing real and permanent good in the world. the kohlberg foundation.

independent production fund, with support from the partridge foundation, a john and polly guth charitable fund. the clements foundation. park foundation, dedicated to heightening public awareness of critical issues. the herb alpert foundation, supporting organizations whose mission is to promote compassion and creativity in our society. the bernard and audre rapoport foundation. the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant, and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org. anne gumowitz. the betsy and jesse fink foundation. the hkh foundation. barbara g. fleischman. and by our sole corporate sponsor, mutual of america, designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we're your retirement company. >> welcome. the summer blitz of blockbuster movies has arrived.

super heroes or lesser mortals with excellent motor skills are here to save the earth from super villains, asteroids, aliens or other disasters, natural in nature but probably induced by global warming. yes, it's another summer of excess and escapism with the thrills and chills of hollywood scaring us down to our popcorn, yet always with a happy ending. meanwhile, back here in the real world, where we actually live, the best film of the summer isn't an epic tale of horror or adventure but an eye-opening, heart-moving and mind-expanding reminder that millions of people in this richest country in the world, working men and women and their children, don't have enough to eat. the film's called "a place at the table," and it's one of the best documentaries i've seen in years. almost 50 million americans -- that's one in six -- receive food stamps.

and yet recently, the house of representatives wrestled over a farm bill because members of congress continued to fight over how many billions to slash from the food stamp program. in the end, they got the farm bill through by stripping food stamps out of it completely, to be voted on some other day. but once again, we heard all the cliches about freeloaders who are undeserving of government help, playing the system and living large at the expense of taxpayers. this movie, "a place at the table," breaks those stereotypes apart and shows us that hunger hits hard at people who work hard to make a living. don't miss this one. it's real life. with me is kristi jacobson, one of the film's directors and producers. you've seen her work on public television, hbo, abc, lifetime, and other tv networks. mariana chilton is here, too. she teaches public health at drexel university and is director of the center for hunger-free communities. she's also founder of witnesses to hunger, a group featured prominently in "a place at the

table." in this excerpt from the film, we meet a rancher and a police officer in colorado, each struggling to make ends meet. believe it or not, they have to rely on the charitable food programs sponsored by the church of a local minister, pastor bob wilson. >> about a month ago we had three officers, including myself. but however, due to budget constraints, we're now down to just me. it was always kind of a prideful thing that i never needed anybody's help. unfortunately, i haven't received a pay raise in four years, and what i used to spend on a month in groceries, now gets me about two weeks. i have utilized pastor bob's food bank. the way it makes me feel, it's very humiliating. well, i correct that. it's not humiliating.

it's very grounding. the stereotype of food banks is always for the unemployed or the disabled, people that can't go out and get a job. that's not always the case. sometimes in life you just get to points where you need a little extra help. >> ranching is a good part of life. it's a lot of work, but it's an honest -- actually, it's an honest trade. but the way the economy and everything has gone south, i have had to go find another job out of the house. so i work on the ranch from 7:00 in the morning till 3:00 in the afternoon, and then at 3:00 in the afternoon till 11:00 at night i go down and clean the school.

it's a good job. it's close to home. there's a lot that you worry about. your kids is the main one. and that's part of the reason i did take a second job, is so i can help buy groceries and put food on the table for my kids. come on, dogs. >> welcome to you both. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you. >> so, a cop who doesn't make enough money to meet all of his food needs and a cowboy who has to take two jobs to help feed his children, are they truly representative or was this just a filmmaker's good luck? >> sadly, they're not the exception, in fact they're very representative. when we were making this film, we traveled all over the country. and again and again met people who were working and trying to make ends meet but were not able to put food on the table.

so i think what the sort of filmmaker's luck or hard work paid off in that these are people who might not be willing to share their story. but we filmed in collbran because it was a town where the pastor, bob, was working really hard to remove that stigma that people feel around admitting and then getting help. and so that helped us because we were welcomed into the community. and, you know, i remember the first time i met the police chief. and i met him first on the phone, and then in person. and then i thought, he's probably not going to share his story on-camera, but it's still important to understand. and then he said, "absolutely." and that was really, really i think a victory for the film in that we were able to show this very important group that are experiencing hunger and food

insecurity, but that are not -- it's very hidden. >> what do you take from their stories? because you worked with a totally different population. >> i'm not so sure they're that different, that's the thing. i think that, when you were saying before about stereotypes -- i think that in the press and our legislators have a certain stereotype about who's poor and who's not, and this concept of the deserving poor. but the women that i work with through witnesses to hunger are very hardworking. they're excellent mothers, excellent parents. they want the best for their kids. they're often working two or three jobs. sometimes they'll have to work under the table in order to make ends meet, trying to find side jobs. they're hustling really hard. and i see the police chief. i see the cowboy who's also taking on that second job. what i see is common among them is a loss of dignity in the work. you can actually work full time and your family is still hungry? there's a very big problem in this country that we are not valuing hard work like we used

to. >> there's a young woman in the film who says, quote, "hunger could be right next door and you would never know because people are too afraid to talk about it." why are people afraid to talk about it, dr. chilton? >> well, i think there's an enormous amount of shame that goes -- especially -- i work with moms of little children, young children, and there's an enormous amount of shame that they experience that they may run out of money before they can get more food. and it really tests their sense of motherhood, their sense of citizenship, of belonging. and it's very isolating. and i think that when the moms that i speak with, they talk about when they were children. they, too, were hungry. and they were always told, "don't talk about it. don't let anybody know how hard it is. always put on a good face. always look good," you know. it's about being able to be in the world and be treated with a sense of dignity and respect. so they would often hide their own experiences of hunger or

hide the experience that they can't feed their own children. >> do we pass hunger down as a legacy to the next generation? >> oh, yes, we do. it gets transferred from generation to generation. now, it also happens that during an economic downturn, when there are not enough good-paying jobs, of course hunger will skyrocket. but i think that when people don't realize that hunger is very damaging to children, too. especially to young children. food insecurity affects the cognitive, social and emotional growth of very young children. that means that by the time they arrive to kindergarten, they're not ready for school. that means that when they're in school, if they're hungry, they won't be able to concentrate on what they're learning, and they won't do as well on their math and their reading tests. that means they won't be as successful, won't get a good paying job so that, when they have children they, too, will be poor. so poverty is an experience that's really seared into the bodies and brains of children. >> what happens to someone who gets too little nutrition early in life?

>> oh, it's extremely important. if you think about what's happening in the first three years of life, the brain is growing so fast. they're the most important years of human development. so every moment those are the building blocks of good cognitive, social and emotional development. neurons are growing and pruning and very active. 700 neurons are growing a second for an infant. it's the most important window of human development. so any type of nutritional deprivation during this time has a severe impact on the brain, even if it's just episodic, even if it happens once or twice a month. those are moments of lost opportunity to be able to interact with their family and their environment, to pay attention and to learn something new, which helps to grow more neurons. so again, it affects the cognitive, social and emotional development. it creates a certain kind of a stress on the child that's very toxic. and we know that children who experience that kind of toxic stress can't learn as well, can't learn as fast.

and you can turn that around with food assistance programs, with a program called wic -- women, infants and children -- or the food stamp program. the best investment of our dollars in this country is investing in very young children and their families because, again, those are the most important times when a child's brain is growing. so for every $1 that you spend on a child, you make $7 back when they become an adolescent. it's a beautiful investment. >> kristi has a remarkable profile. a portrait in the film of a young girl named -- i think her name's rosie. >> okay, mine is about this goddess or queen. her husband died, and he gave half of his kingdom to the romans, and -- >> hunger definitely impacts my classroom. i have had students come to me upset, and it's definitely a huge issue in our small community. one student in particular, rosie.

i just really felt she wasn't really applying herself in the classroom, and i couldn't figure out where that attitude was coming from. and what i realized, when i brought her in one day, was the main issue was that she was hungry. >> i struggle a lot and most of the time it's because my stomach is really hurting. my teacher tells me to get focused, and she told me to write focus on my little sticker. and every time i look at it, and i'm like, "oh, i'm supposed to be focusing." i start yawning, and then i zone out. and i'm just looking at the teacher. and i look at her, and all i think about is food. so i have these little visions in my eyes. sometimes when i look at her, i vision her as a banana. so she goes like a banana, and everybody in the class is like apples or oranges. and then i'm like, "oh, great." >> tell me about rosie. >> rosie is an incredible young

girl. and i think that what struck me so much about rosie is that her story sort of embodied everything about this issue, which is that, while she's experiencing this hunger and food insecurity, it's affecting her self-esteem. it's affecting her ability to learn, which is very upsetting. but at the same time, she has this incredible spirit, which gives you this -- you know, some feeling of hope and inspiration. so she's just an incredible young girl. >> and that story is replicated in your experience? >> oh, very much so, very common. i think that -- you know, i think -- again, i work with families that have very young children. and i've been watching the development of the children over time. and some are really doing just so beautifully. very dear, full of light and so much potential. and i think what people forget is that, you think you can somehow see hunger. you can't look at rosie and see,

"oh, she's hungry." so where do you see it? you see it in school performance. their ability to get along with others. their ability to pay attention for children of school age. >> attendance. >> and attendance. but also for really young children, where do you see it? you see it in the increased hospitalizations, showing up more to the emergency room when they don't -- with preventible diseases, or preventible exacerbation of asthma. this -- you know, if we could think about poverty during childhood as a type of a disease, if we could pay as much attention to poverty for children as we pay attention to infectious disease, we might be able to do something in this country. >> i was struck again about how important a teacher like leslie nichols is to a child like rosie, just as you are to the people you work with. they can make a difference, can't they? >> oh, they can. i think, oftentimes, they're first responders because they're the ones who are seeing how well the children are doing. they're with those kids moment to moment and seeing whether

they're taking in the information or not. >> and they're making such -- sorry, they're making such a difference. and in the case of leslie nichols, you know, she had this added -- you know, her own personal experience with hunger, enabled her to recognize that it was hunger that was causing the problems in rosie. while other teachers might think you've got a behavioral problem or you're just -- you know, you're a difficult one. so i think it's important to also empower teachers who are in a position to really help these young kids overcome some of these obstacles by recognizing that hunger is something we need to address. >> the film makes dramatically clear the relationship between malnutrition and obesity. >> step up on there. step up on the table right there, and i'll be with you in just a second. what grade you in? >> second. >> second? you're in the second grade? how old are you?

>> fixing to be eight. >> fixing to be eight. all right. and you've got asthma? okay. do you ever have problems with shortness of breath when you're outside playing or anything? >> i have to stop playing to take a deep breath. >> okay. what did you eat for breakfast this morning? >> i didn't eat. >> you didn't eat breakfast this morning? okay. when you get home in the afternoon, do you eat a snack? what do you eat? >> chips. >> chips? what else, baby? what do you drink? >> pop. >> pops. okay. do you have any other snacks besides chips you could eat? >> cookies. >> kisses? >> cookies. >> cookies? cookies and chips? okay. well, maybe you could ask mom to start buying you some carrots and some celery and maybe some apples. you could slice some apples up. that'd be good, hm? >> a lot of people think there is a yawning gap between hunger

on the one endothe and o in fact, they're neighbors, and the reason that they happen often at the same time and often in the same family, in the same person is because they are both signs of having insufficient funds to be able to command food that you need to stay healthy. >> if you look at what has happened to the relative price of fresh fruits and vegetables, it's gone up by 40% since 1980 when the obesity epidemic first began. in contrast, the relative price of processed foods has gone down by about 40%. so if you have only a limited amount of money to spend, you're going to spend it on the cheapest calories you can get, and that's going to be processed foods. this has to do with our farm policy and what we subsidize and what we don't. >> help me understand the connection between hunger and

obesity. >> hunger and obesity are both forms of malnutrition. >> meaning? >> meaning not -- it means not getting the right kinds of nutrients for an active and healthy life. if you go back to the definition of food insecurity, it means having enough food for an active and healthy life. so when people think about hunger, they think, "oh, it's just not enough food." but actually food insecurity which is a much broader term, much more precise, captures that type of experience where families don't have enough money for healthy and fresh food so they will -- in order to stretch their dollar, they'll spend it on soda, or on foods that have very high calories. because they know that their kids are hungry, they have to be able to stretch their dollar in order to fill their own tummies and the tummies of their children. they know it's not healthy, but they're just trying to figure out what the immediate -- the immediacy of hunger. so they eat lots of high calories, salt, sodium. those are the kinds of things that are not good for an active and healthy life.

it's another form of hunger. so you can look at people who are overweight and obese and think maybe they don't have enough money for food. maybe they're anxious about where their next meal is coming from. >> you say in the film that there are 50 million people, one in six, who are food insecure, who do not have enough good nutrition to thrive. >> it's shocking that here in the wealthiest nation on earth we have this many people who do not have either access to healthy foods nor can they afford it. and, you know, i think that we need to look at -- and what we wanted to do with this film is not just say, "look, here's a portrait of hungry people," but look at why we have such a large problem, a big problem here in this country. >> what does it say that one out of every two kids in this country, at some point in their childhood, as i learned from your film, will be on food assistance? one out of two? >> i see a country in crisis.

and it's a crisis that we need to address, and we need political leadership and policies that tackle this problem dead on. and when we were making the film, we looked to a film that aired on cbs in 1968 called, "hunger in america." >> food is the most basic of human needs. >> that showed the nation shocking conditions and children that were starving. >> but man can't remain alive without food. we're talking about 10 million americans. in this country, the most basic human need must become a human right. >> and citizens reacted. and what they did though -- and part of this had to do with the reporting at the time -- was they demanded legislative response. they demanded that their politicians take responsibility and address the problem. and i think that today we have, you know, every -- maybe once a

year around the holidays, there are portraits of the hungry in america. but instead of pointing to political solutions, they're often pointing to a charitable response as the solution. and i think that's also a really significant cause for how we have gotten to the point where one in six are food insecure. >> you have a sequence in the film that drives home the reliance on charity and the conclusion that it's not enough. let's take a look at that. >> the '80s created the myth that "a," hungry people deserved it. and "b," well, we could really fill in the gaps with the charities. >> and so we had a proliferation of emergency responses, soup kitchens, food pantries, moving from literally a shelf in the cupboard of the pastor's office to an operation with regular hours. >> something changed during that period of time.

there developed this ethos that government was doing too much. and more importantly, the private sector is wonderful, and let's feed people through charity. >> we have basically created a kind of secondary food system for the poor in this country. millions and millions of americans, as many as 50 million americans, rely on charitable food programs for some part of meeting their basic food needs. >> that's something that's extremely important. the churches and the community groups that do hand out food are doing an incredible service to this country and to the children that are experiencing hunger. but that's just a quick fix. that's for today and tomorrow and maybe for next week. we call it emergency food.

it's no longer emergency food. this is called chronic use of a broken system for which people cannot be held accountable. >> charity is a great thing, but it's not the way to end hunger. we don't fund our department of defense through charity, you know. we shouldn't, you know, see that our kids are healthy through charity either. >> so americans responded with "a thousand points of light" in the first bush administration. but you say it's not enough. >> well, it's not enough because despite all of that, despite all the money that's being raised, despite the food drives, despite the proliferation of these food banks and soup kitchens, we still have 50 million people who are food insecure. and what we've found both during the making of the film and in fact since showing the film, you know, food bank directors repeatedly sharing with us, you know, "we can't do this alone.

we need government to play its role." because it should be an emergency food system, as mariana says in the film. and it should be complementing government programs that really address the needs of the most vulnerable. >> i would like to really draw your attention to the impact that the emergency food system has compared to the government food assistance programs. what emergency food can do is about this much, about 5% of dealing with the problem. this much. what does the federal government do with the nutrition assistance? food stamps, or s.n.a.p. it's called. wic, women, infants and children. school breakfast and school lunch. after school feeding programs. those programs we know make a tangible difference in the health and well-being of children and adults. so we know that if families are receiving food stamps or s.n.a.p. benefits, their cognitive, social and emotional development is better. we know that they're less likely to be hospitalized.

the same thing goes for wic. we also know that wic can reduce the stress that moms often feel when they're a new mom and they're very poor. so these programs, we know, have a tangible public health impact. there's no research that shows what kind of impact the emergency food system is having. we know that when about 30 million children are being fed every day in this country through school breakfast and school lunch, that is magnificent, and those kinds of programs need to be protected and to be promoted. >> our conversation will continue in a moment. but first, this is pledge time on public television, and we're taking a short break so you can show your support for the programming you see right here on this station. >> for those of you still with us, as we've seen, it's not easy making sure our neediest get the food their minds and bodies need. several years ago, we visited an urban garden and farmers market in the east new york neighborhood of new york city. it provides nutritious, healthy

produce to community residents who otherwise must travel miles to the nearest supermarket. and even there the choices may be scarce. watch and listen. >> the east new york section of brooklyn is a cornucopia of fast and cheap food. >> the market is open! >> but each saturday, the east new york farmers market offers some much-needed relief. >> that's very good. right? >> the market's appetizing array of food comes from just outside the city and just around corner. from sweet to savory, land to sea. >> this is a baby bluefish. this tastes excellent. >> people say it's worth the wait. >> when it's fresh from the tree, on the table, it's delicious. >> we have a great market, and you know, i think when people come and visit us, they're surprised that it's here. they're surprised that it's in east new york.

>> sarita daftary heads up the market, started ten years ago by the non-profit united community centers. it's been a welcome source of pride and nutrients in a tough neighborhood better known for its crime stats than its crop yields. >> food that comes from the ground that is in its most whole form is much better for you than food that's processed, or packaged. and food that's grown by small scale farmers, and especially organic farmers, tends to be more nutritious. >> some of the freshest vegetables here were picked just hours ago from land a few short blocks away. jeanette ware has been gardening here for the past two years. >> we're going to be harvesting some herbs, some oregano, some collard greens. some string beans and some beets. >> jeanette and her husband james start each day in the dirt. >> it's fun. it's hard, but it's fun. it gets your back hurting, but it's good for your heart. and it's a good feeling.

your's you're digging in the natural earth, and you're producing something for everybody to enjoy and be healthy. these are hot. you want some? these are 12 for a dollar. >> for the wares, what started as hobby has quickly turned into a small business. from their stand, they help fuel their community with home-grown vitamins, minerals and good cheer. >> hello. i like that hat. >> thank you. >> hazel smalls is on the hunt for organic produce. >> we're pretty healthy eaters, so it's a lot of fruits and vegetables. we used to get the frozen, because it lasts much longer, but once i found out about the market here, i said, let's check it out. i can always take the collared greens, clean them, cut them up and freeze them. >> hazel keeps an eye on what her daughter eats. fortunately, cheyenne prefers pears to junk food. >> my mother lets me eat candy only like saturday, or just saturday, because she doesn't want me to get diabetes because

it's very painful. so i know that i don't want to eat too much candy. >> many of the chronic diseases that plague the country today, like diabetes, are linked to diet. unfortunately, east new yorkers know this all too well. one in six adults here suffers from diabetes. that's twice the new york city average. nearly one out of three is obese. the primary cause of premature death here is heart disease. over the past ten years, hospitalization for the condition has increased by 35%. so food here can be a simple matter of life and death, and people like claudina williams need the market for food that won't make them sick. >> you have to find it. it doesn't matter how much it costs because that's your health. >> claudina uses coupons to help ease the expense of eating right. a number of states, including new york, encourage low-income

people to shop at farmers markets by accepting food stamps and distributing free food vouchers to senior citizens and moms. >> thank you. >> people in low-income communities, people everywhere, deserve the same quality of life, a great quality of life. >> announcer: we now continue with "moyers & company." >> there's a young woman in the film, barbie izquierdo. she was a year looking for a job. she had food stamps while she was doing so. then she got work. and yet as a result of getting work, she no longer qualified for food stamps or subsidized childcare, and her children could, therefore, no longer receive breakfast or lunch at daycare. >> anyone can sit there and tell you, oh, i've been through this, i've been through that, i got through it. yes, i've been through this. i've been through that.

i got through it. but if you open my fridge, i'm there again. five days into the month. and i'm going to be there next month and the month after that. it gets tiring. when i was on food stamps, i didn't have to worry about my kids not eating. it was just, how can i make it stretch, you know. i might have to take a little bit from this day. it was more about balancing everything. where now, with ehave nothing. i literally have nothing left. like i'm going to give them a hot pocket for dinner tomorrow. like what am i supposed to do?

what do i give them? >> what's happening there? >> first of all, stress. stress is very damaging to moms and kids. secondly, you also see barbie having the sandwich away from her kids. so you have moms that will often scrimp on their own diets in order to feed their children. but what you see overall, the big picture there, is that barbie was working full time in those moments, and therefore, became ineligible for food assistance. so what they -- what you see is what we call in the research world the cliff effect. so if a family makes just enough money to get themselves over the lip of whatever the income limit is, they'll lose benefits that are actually very helpful to them and to their own children and to their health. so you can have a family kind of going up and up and say, "oh, i'm going to take that extra -- i'm going to get a raise," or,

"i'll work overtime." they work just enough to fall over the cliff, lose their benefits, and they're worse off than where they were before. so we have a really big problem in this country with the way that we are looking at our wages and our public assistance programs and how they're interacting with each other. >> and that scene was one of the most difficult to film. and both because of just, you know, the pain that barbie was feeling and allowing us to capture, but also as filmmakers, barbie had gotten the full-time job. and so we thought this is the end of the film and -- >> the arc of the story. >> exactly. and when this happened, we were devastated for barbie and thought, "what is this going to do to the story?" well, of course, as filmmakers, we had to follow the story. and i remember the conversation

that we had with mariana where we were talking about this, and we were worried that it wasn't representative. and then learned this is in fact so representative and a really important problem to expose. because we need for these programs -- if we're going to have them, and we're going to fund them, which is a different issue, they should be meeting the needs of the people who are using and benefiting from the programs. >> and in our research we know that food stamps do help to prevent hospitalizations. they do promote health. it does help. but the type of allotment is called the thrifty food plan. the way that the government calculates how much an adequate meal or an adequate sort of thrifty food basket costs is actually inadequate for a healthy diet. so even if you have families that are receiving the maximum allotment, as if they had no other income, they still can't make ends meet. >> there's a nice twist in the film. when you're reporting on what it's like to live on food stamps and you have an interview with representative james mcgovern of massachusetts, who did his own

research, as you do, into the subject. >> i lived on a food stamp diet for a week along with jo ann emerson from missouri. we did so because we thought that the food stamp benefit was inadequate. most of my colleagues had no idea that the average food stamp benefit was $3 a day. i had my budget, and i went to a supermarket. and it took me an awful long time, because you have to add up every penny. and it has to last you for a week. and so i did it, and i will tell you, i was tired. i was cranky because i couldn't drink coffee because coffee was too expensive. i mean, there are people who are living on that food stamp allocation. and you really can't. for us, it was an exercise that ended in a week. for millions of other people in this country, that's their way of life. every day is a struggle just to eat. >> sadly, representative mcgovern is one of few leaders and voices in congress pushing

to do the right thing here, which is to protect and improve food stamps and other government programs. he's an incredible leader, but he is even having trouble getting his -- you know, members of his own party to support his efforts to protect these programs. and that's really troubling and upsetting. >> the road to reform always leads to washington. and there almost every reform, whether it's the environment or whether it's agriculture or food, hits up against the power of big money to write the laws it wants and influence the politicians it needs. you found that to be the case, didn't you? >> yes. i think that -- you know, i mean, i believe -- and i don't think naively -- that we, americans, should be able to influence how our politicians vote on these issues. that's not happening right now. and the problem with this issue is that you don't always -- it's

not so obvious necessarily how a politician is voting when it comes to programs that address food insecurity. >> there was a poll taken, i think in connection with your film, that found the majority of americans actually were surprised to hear that 50 million people don't know where their next meal is coming from. and many of those polled just don't think of hunger as a pressing issue. given your work on this, how do you explain it? >> there's this concept that you can somehow see hunger, that we would know that there are hungry children if they were fishing around in the garbage can or if there were flies coming or they had swollen bellies and, you know, limp on the sidewalk. but that's not what hungry children look like. we don't see that in the united states. you might see -- that's severe starvation when you're dealing in times of war and massive drought. >> somalia, the congo, sudan, all -- >> so in the united states there -- it's children like rosie who light up the room when

they come in. it's moms like barbie izquierdo, who's beautifully spoken, so brilliant. her children are funny and enjoyable. and yet they're still experiencing food insecurity and hunger. so i think people are actually shocked. "well, i don't see it, so it can't be real." and they don't believe the numbers. but what is happening underneath is a massive crisis in human potential in the united states. our kids are showing up to school not ready to learn. when they're in school they can't concentrate. you have kids who are food insecure when they're adolescents. they're suffering with stress and suicidal ideation. that's what we find in our research. how can we -- >> suicidal ideation? >> suicidal ideation, so it's thinking about, "oh, what does it matter that i live?" it's thinking about killing yourself. these are very depressing and stressful experiences to experience hunger, to see your parents struggling with that and to struggle yourself. so when you -- what's happening is that we are developing a

whole -- like half of the country overall is really left out of the public dialogue. they are underpaid, undervalued, unhealthy. and we can prevent this kind of -- and we can prevent this. that's why i think it's so important, what's so exciting about what witnesses to hunger is trying to accomplish, is to make sure that people who know the experience of hunger and poverty firsthand is a part of the national dialogue. they're not silence d. they're not short of shamed over off in the corner, that they're actually front and center. they're the ones who can turn it around. so we have to take back our democracy, be more engaged. and i think that a lot of people sort of in the middle, who haven't struggled with hunger or poverty, think, "oh, we'll just let the government handle it. they must be doing the right thing." and, "there's no hunger," that's just called disengagement. we've got a big problem in our country with being engaged about what our politicians are actually doing for us. >> so you've tried to engage them. let's take a look in the film at a very interesting sequence. >> everybody say, "washington." >> washington.

>> here's the plan. at 11:30 the reception at the senate. senator casey will speak. i will speak. tianna will speak. barbie will speak, and every time that you have an opportunity, give your ideas for change, for what you need for the success and healthy life of your kids, okay? these guys are the ones who make it happen. >> i was the first mother of witnesses to hunger, and i didn't think anyone would take us seriously. but i'm here to let everyone

know that just because we live where we live and come from where we come from doesn't mean that we're not smart. doesn't mean that we don't have potential. doesn't mean that we do not want education. doesn't mean that we want to depend on welfare for the rest of our lives. i want the same hopes and dreams as everyone in this room for their children. we just need the opportunity to make it come true. >> did they listen? >> i think they listened a little bit. they felt it a little bit. but it's not long enough, you can't just go to congress and talk to legislators one time, and they'll get it. i think it's really hard to break through the cloud over our legislators. i'm not really sure who they're listening to, except for people who have a lot of money and a lot of influence. so i think they're very touched by the personal experiences of a person who's poor, especially from a mom. so i've actually seen senate staffers get very teary-eyed listening to these stories, and

they say, "oh, keep telling your stories. keep telling your stories." but then they'll turn around and vote to cut food stamps. and that doesn't make a lot of sense. so i'm wondering, who is it that's influencing congress? who's got their thumb on what congress can do? and i think that there's just not enough people who are poor who have an opportunity to speak out. i don't think they get enough press. they don't have -- they're sort of shut out. there's no opportunity for people who are low income to really engage in our democracy. and i think that they're actively shut out as well. >> so bear with me, though, as i put on my horns and play devil's advocate. there are a lot of americans who think that we're spending too much on food stamps and that the cost is out of hand. your poll associated with your film suggests that last year alone the government spent $81 billion on this nutritional safety net, as you call it, now s.n.a.p., what we used to know as food stamps, and some folks

say that is simply way too much and that we're creating a culture of dependency. here's representative -- republican representative steven king of iowa. >> handing out benefits is not an economic stimulator. but we want to take care of the people that are needy, the people that are hungry. and we've watched this program grow from a number that i think i first memorized when i arrived here in congress, about >> well, first of all, i'm a researcher, so i like to base things on empirical evidence. there is no evidence that the food stamp program creates dependency. let me show you what this congressperson is doing. basically they're pinning the problems that we have in this

country on people who are poor. if you think about people who are poor, really -- you have 80% of people who are food insecure are actually working. that means their wages are so low that they're eligible for food stamps. so you want to talk about dependency in this country? let's talk about corporations and businesses that pay such low wages, that they depend on the united states government to add money to those wages through the income assistance programs, like s.n.a.p. so if you take a company like walmart, pays their workers so low, that their workers are actually eligible for food stamps. who's dependent on the u.s. government? i'd have to say it's walmart is the welfare queen here. >> but if i were congressman king sitting here, i might say to you, you make a very convincing case, and i believe that both of you are genuinely committed to this issue. but you know, 48 million people are receiving food stamps. can't you see why some of my constituents in iowa would be shocked by that and at that

cost? >> well, i think it's also important to look at how many corporations and agribusinesses are collecting subsidies out of the same government bill, the farm bill. and i think that there is an ethos in congress right now that assisting those individuals who need help via the food stamp program or wic or school meals is big government and is going to put us into debt. but providing subsidies to large agribusinesses and big corporations is just business as usual. and i think that we're looking at, you know, investing in our youth and investing in our future. and if it doesn't get to you, congressman, from the moral point of view, that it's really frankly not okay to have kids like rosie and barbie's kids, to the tune of 17 million of them in our nation -- well, what about the cost of not doing anything? because the cost of food insecurity, the cost of obesity and malnutrition is way larger

on the back end and the health care than it is to get these programs adequately funded and feed kids nutritious foods. >> if you think about what government is supposed to be doing, it's supposed to create the conditions in which people can make healthy choices and live an active and healthy life. it's all about creating good conditions for us to be -- to prosper, right? somehow when we think about helping people who are poor, many of whom are working, it's -- there becomes this type of societal vitriol towards people who are poor as if they're not us. well, actually people who are poor are all around us. their children are going to the same schools oftentimes. we need to really rethink about who we are as a country. what does it mean to be an american? if you think about one in five of our children living in households that are food insecure, they're just as american as the rest of us, we need to really invest in our own country and who we are.

>> yeah, i was actually present when president johnson signed the food stamp act into law in 1964, before your time, obviously. it was only -- the whole bill was only eight pages long, and the first year's budget was $75 million. and its purpose -- i'm going to quote it for you -- was, quote, "to raise levels of the nutrition among low-income households and to permit those households with low incomes to receive a greater share of the nation's food abundance." but as you make clear in the film, it's not doing that job all thers these years later, although we're spending $81 million on it now. so what's essentially gone wrong? >> we need to look, as we did then, look at the program as it was designed, which was as you stated, as a nutrition program to address the nutritional needs of low-income people who don't

have access to healthy foods. that's what this program should be. and we should be doing everything in our power to make that program work effectively. and to do that i think we need to listen to people like barbie and the witnesses to hunger. we could listen to mariana also, but we need to listen to the people who are experiencing this and we need to revamp and reform the program while also adequately funding it. >> you've been to washington with some of your constituents. you've made your case. you're up against the interlocking power grid of big agriculture, big corporations and big government. what makes you think you have a chance of turning them around? >> the power of the human spirit. when you have a lot of moms who have had enough, we can take

over congress and say, we care about our children, just like you care about your children. but we need more moms. we need more families to be able to speak up. i think that we need to take over -- take back our democracy, take back our sense of involvement, of belonging, that this is our government. this government is supposed to be working for everyone regardless of how you were born or where you were born or how much money you make. it's supposed to work for all of us. we've got to figure out a way to just help the people who are in power to recognize their own sense of humanity and recognize that they are no different than barbie izquierdo, no different than rosie. that their kids are no different than rosie, that we're all a part of that same human family. ultimately that's what we need to tap into. >> on that note, thank you, dr. mariana chilton, for your work. and kristi jacobson, thank you for an extraordinary film. and thank you both for being here. >> thank you so much. >> thank you.

>> that's it for this week. i'll see you here next time. >> announcer: funding is

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coming up -- judy valente reports on a chicago priest who visits parishes to bring attention to an often taboo subject, domestic violence. and in israel, an interfaith village where israelis and palestinians intentionally live together in peace. plus, a spectacular pageant celebrating mormon history.