captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> woodruff: an egyptian courtn, said today former president hosni mubarak could soon be freed from jail. good evening.

i'm judy woodruff. >> brown: i'm jeffrey brown. on the newshour tonight, the news about mubarak comes as the death toll in the current surge of violence nears 1,000. we have an exclusive interview with egypt's ambassador to the u.s. o >> woodruff: then, can the police seize your cash your car, even your home if you're detained? we talk to the reporter who investigated the practice for the "new yorker" magazine. >> brown: what's the problem with washington? we kick off a series on governing and leadership. tonight, three historians on partisanship and gridlock in the nation's capital. >> woodruff: and in an age of budget cuts, the u.s. space agency must rein in its orbits of exploration. we take a closer look at nasa's uncertain future. to do really difficult things that they had not been given the money to do.for years has had a flat budget. newshour. >> woodruff: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour."

>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and friends of the newshour. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: the situation in egypt took another volatile turn today with news that former president hosni mubarek might be released from prison. a month after the military coup ousted his successor. -continuing violence. even as cairo streets were calm today the mubarak news said they had no grounds to hold the former ought accurate on corruption charges. it remained unclear whether in

so when. -an announcement came just hours after suspected islamic militants ambushed two mini buses carrying off duty police officers in the sigh indemnify peninsula. the first televised address since morsi's ouster, it was -warned that violence would not be tolerated. >> we will not stand behind traitors and they know we do not have any of this i assure you. -we are reaching out with all good intentions. if it is other than good we're left with no other choice but to stand against this with all our strength and might to protect egypt. ->> that pledge came even as the government acknowledged that security forces had killed at least 36 promorsi detainees.

break but brotherhood officials described the deaths as assassinations and said detainees has been shot through the windows of a locked police van. saturday, more than 70 people were killed in clashes between morsi supporters and police. all toll since wednesday the fighting has claimed some 1,000 lives. in the meantime, the military backed interim government continued its efforts to control media coverage of the unfolding events. officials have scolded western journalists for not portraying the crack down as a war against terrorists.ptions. an al jazeera correspondent on charges on insighting sectarian violence. on american television sunday, several politicians condemned the egyptian government's crack down and on cnn's state of the union, arizona senator john mccain who traveled to egypt -recently for talks with both sides called on the whitehouse -to cut off aid to the country.

>> for us to sit by and watch this happen is a violation of everything that we stood for and when we threaten something as we did that we would cut off aid as the administration did and -then not do it, then you lose your credibility and your only fluence. have influence but when you don't use that influence then you do not have that influence. today, spokes woman saki said->> we have not made a policy decision to put a blanket hold on economic support.-on the economic support fund, -yes that's assistance. clearly that review is ongoing as we talked about in here quite a bit. that review includes military assistance, security assistance and it also includes economic assistance. we're going to abide by legal obligations and we will make adjustments as needed. >> meanwhile a new survey by the peer research center finds that

511% of americans say it is better for the united states to cut off military aid to egypt to put pressure on the government. the that's nearly double the continue military aid in order to maintain influence in egypt. ->> a short time ago i spoke via -skype to nancy in cairo. nancy, welcome once again. what kind ofaction have you gotten today to the possible release of hosnii since they rose up against mubarak two years ago saying egypt needed major reform is promisingly were fine with the news that the president rose up against now could be released. there's so much arrange of the muslim brotherhood -- it's almost ground out that there was outrage against mubarak.

killings in the sinai what's known about who did it, the policemen who were killed there support they're getting. ->> well the government says that those officers were killed in an rpg attack that they were burned. -that weapons had come from overseas suggesting now the international elements of supporting the morsi supporters and saying they're terrorists. it's the killing that really galvanized people around going after the brotherhood with the deadly attack of the police officers -- and the images coming back at cairo really upset the public which is already in an emotional place. the officers could be killed by instruments. we have ideas and notions amongst some that the government keeps going after them, to

charge them and even kill them to bring back stability to the country. weekend was the government now acknowledges that detainees, muslim brotherhood detainees were killed but of course versions of that story. the government claim that they were accidentally over tear gassed but i can tell you the officials who looked at the bodies say they have seen signs of torture.-what's particularly disturbing about that incident is that it suggests that perhaps -- real concerted effort to not prosecute those who are suspected to be terrorists or extreme es elements es elements that killed them while in custody.->> we heard of the pressure being put on some western journalists and others as to how this story is told.

how do you and your colleagues peeled that, howfield about that, what kind of pressure do you feel. the government has come out and were bitter about the coverage -by the international polls. they feel they are being -- human rights reviews from that perspective they're going after to destabilize the country. it's almost impossible to go to an event without being questioned by officials who will then ask you what your -- and tell you you're against egyptian state. a number of journalists have been detained for several hours -some of them beaten. i can tell you i was at an event a couple days ago and a police -officer yelled at the men around -me that i was an american and therefore should be beaten. -and the men began to man handle me in an effort to suggest that i was somehow part of the

problem. government because there's so international community has suggested that what they're defending the state. ->> all right nancy in cairo. take care and thanks again for talking to us. >> now to a closer look inside the thinking of the egyptian government and its actions over the last week. ambassador to the united states mohamed tofi. a am about is dur welcome to the program. >> good to be here. >> lets me talk to you about what the reports are the former president may be released, will he be released and does that mean there's an exoneration of any wrongdoing by his government. nothing to do with the executive branch with the government.

for the courts to decide. mubarak is no longer in -- the citizens are basically to face the courts and judged in whatever way the courts find necessary. egyptian official since the crack down last week. should the world expect continuing crack down on the muslim brotherhood as what we've seen over the last week. on a number of basic principles. first of all this is not about relation or about god. if you have political greafnsdz you should express those political grievances in the ways to do that. -- the law allows you to do that. the second thing we need to -agree on you cannot go on a demonstration carrying heavy people. people are on using those

weapons. who are in danger. so the third thing we have to agree upon and we do agree upon is that it is purposely legal for people to demonstrate peacefully without burning down churches, without attacking police stations, without attacking museums. demonstrate peacefully and you >> but eye witnesses i'm sure you know, mr. ambassador, say that the majority, the vast majority of the shooting was done by government, by soldiers by troops by police and not by the demonstrators who were largely peaceful. >> if that were true then we would not have a hundred almost a hundred dead policemen today that have been shot by pro-morsi, different sides of pro-morsi groups. we have almost 700 policemen

injured. so again the police have an obligation to respect the freedom of people to demonstrate provided they do not use weapons. people's properties. >> i think the question many people are asking though is why was it necessary to shoot to kill? was there a non-lethal way to work with these demonstrators. why not wait them out why not give them time to make a different de.->> actually that was what the they started to surround the area where the demonstrators were situated in order to allow people to leave. basically what happens is that-they were attacked by armed gun men and police officers were killed.-and it became evident that this was not going to be peaceful was of the fact that some of the

demonstrators, not all of them. most of them were not armed but some of them were armed and were willing to use those arms to kill.->> are you comfortable, though, with now the impression that your government has left on the world that it is prepared to crack down in this way leaving a thousand civilian dead after just a week. >> well, first of all i'm not comfortable with the notion that any egyptians are being killed. as far as i'm concerned one egyptian that is one too many. however, we have to look at this -in an objective way. when the police are attacked by armed people in the middle of unarmed demonstrators then there's going to be a gun fight and people are going to get hurt. -it is up to the muslim brotherhood leadership to make a

decision that they will not use weapons. >> is there a place for the muslim brother hood in the government, in the current government or is it better in the view of the government for the muslim brotherhood to be eliminated. eliminated? point very clear. there's room for egypt in egypt for all egyptians. there's room. is this is not a struggle for one side to eliminate the other side. side this is not the objective of the egyptian people or the egyptian government. we have in our government in the new government a hip minister is to talk with all the parties ands arrive at a national reconciliation. so this is the objective.the objective. there's a political process place.-place. the invited to participate in the

government to have ministers inrnment, to h the government. they were invited to participate in meeting to discuss how to go forward. we cannot keep on in this vicious cycle of recommendations r-and killings. we have to move forward, we have to look towards the future. >> there's been extensive reporting just in the last few days particularly in the "newly in the "new york-times" yesterday, about the great lengths that officials at the highest lev3el went to try to persuade gene al sissi the military leader and others in your government not to use this massive source. why were the pleas of secretary hagel, secretary kerry and so hee de many others not heeded. ->> again the objective was not to use massive force, the objective was not to get anyone killed.th the objective was to apply the rule of rule. rule. you had in those areas where you had the sit-ins people who had

been killed and tore sure you have bodies surfacing.ave peopl-you have people left for dead they survived and they stoald their -- told their story how could the government stand aside and say we'll allow these people to continue to be on there and continue to break the law there.here. ->> the reporting we're hearing mr. ambassador, is the u.s. we just heard the spokes woman at the state department they're still looking at whether the aid that the u.s. provides to your country, military aid $1.3 billion should be continued. a new poll out today says most americans believe it should not continue. your country? -your country? ->> well, i mean i've been saying this so many times. let me say it one more time. time. the u.s. assistance to egypt is part of a strategic partnership that serves both countriesly -enormously.

win/win situation. so basically we would like it to cont so basically we would like it to continue to be a win/win we situation but particularly because we gree on the -objective. we have the same objective. we want to see a dram democratic system. we do not want to be attacked, prisoner of war. mus churches burned down, museums museums being attacked. we do not want to see this. have we want to have a flourishing coun -country, democracy. cou -a country where every individual can feel free, can have human dignity. this is what we're working -towards. and this is what we're going to achieve. achieve. whether the aid continues? comm comment of the decisions of the united states government. what i'm saying is that this assistance is of use and is of tremendous importance to both

sides. >> ambassador mohammad toufic we thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you very much. >> woodruff: still to come on the newshour, police seizing your cash, car, and even your home; a history of governing gridlock; nasa's future; and a downsized space mission. but first, the other news of the day. here's kwame holman. >> holman: the number of syrians streaming into iraq has grown dramatically in the last five days. they are mostly kurdish refugees believed to be fleeing attacks by al-qaeda fighters involved in the syrian civil war. the u.n. reported some 30,000 such refugees have entered the kurdish region of iraq. the u.n. set up an emergency transit camp in the iraqi town of irbil to house the new arrivals. they bring the number of syrian refugees in iraq to nearly 200,000. >> in syria the situation is getting worse and my young brothers who are here had sent after us telling us to come to the kurdish region. we came through four times

before but we could not cross because each time they told us the borders were closed. they told us we couldn't cross >> >> holman: the u.n. high commissioner for refugees has requested thousands of tents and other supplies from jordan that are due to arrive by the end of the week. heavy monsoon rains spawned severe flooding across parts of the philippines today. the downpours drenched the capital city, manila and several nearby provinces killing at least three people. the torrential rain, strengthened by a passing tropical storm, turned manila's streets into waist-deep rivers. the flooding forced the closing of schools, businesses, and embassies. in the u.s., a wildfire raged across central idaho today. some 2,300 homeowners near the resort communities of sun valley and ketchum were forced to evacuate.we the blaze, which was sparked by lightning nearly two weeks ago now has scorched about 160 square miles. 1,200 firefighters are battling the fire. it is 8% contained.

even as the idaho fire burned so far 2013 is shaping up to be the second mildest fire season of the last decade. lyme disease is ten times more common than previously thought according to the centers for disease control and prevention. doctors report about 20,000 toan 30,000 illnesses a year, but a c.d.c. survey shows as many as 300,000 americans actually are diagnosed annually. lyme disease is caused by bacteria transmitted through the bites of infected deer ticks. if diagnosed early it can be cleared by antibiotics avoiding potentially severe symptoms. oscar pistorius, the double amputee olympian, was indicted in a south african courtroom today on a charge of murdering his girlfriend a year ago. in court for the indictment, he wept openly before the proceeding. prosecutors said witnesses heard a woman screaming before shots were fired, which contradicts pistorius' account.

he said he believed he was shooting at an intruder.sc his trial is to begin in march. same-sex weddings took place across new zealand today, as it became the 15th country to allow them. about three dozen couples exchanged vows in both traditional and nontraditional ceremonies. one couple was married on an airplane at 39,000 feet after winning an airline promotion. new zealand's same-sex marriage law was enacted in april and took effect today. gary knell, the president and c.e.o. of npr-- formerly national public radio-- is moving on after less than two years on the job. knell succeeded vivian schiller,- who resigned after a former npr fund-raising executive was caught on camera accusing the tea party of being "racist." knell plans to leave in late fall to run the national geographic society. trading was light on wall streetin today as investors await clues about the federal reserve's future bond-buying plans.

the dow jones industrial average logged its first four-day losing streak of the year, dropping more than 70 points to close at 15,010. the nasdaq fell 13 points to close at 3589. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to jeff. >> brown: next, a story about the increase in police seizures of personal property, in the name of fighting crime. ray suarez has our look. pissit's called civil forfeiture. the seizures have long been ares h -tool in the fight against illegal drugs and the program is-an enormous money maker for local police departments. yorker staff writer sarah wrote a lengthy and revealing rev report for the magazine andan joins me now. sarah, let's start at the -beginning. what is civil forfeiture?iture, h owhow does it work. >> enough people are familiar are fam with this idea of criminal forfeiture.ture. -that if you're profiting from crime, let's say you're a big drug king pin and you got your malibu mansion and your golfn stream jet with the proceeds of

your crime then those things-will be taken away from you. that makes a lot of sense again to people. but many folks are unfamiliar with the idea of civil forfeiture which is actually a case brought directly againstdirectly against the piece of don't need to be proven guilty of a crime for goods to be taken away. and of the conventional protections that you have under the criminal process are not afforded to you in a civil forfeiture case. >> so there's no trial there's no requirement to provide evidence to prove the state's suspicion, they just take your stuff. >> exactly. -you don't you don't have the right to an lawyer. conventionally if you're facing the loss of your home or the loss of your car or cash, normally at the very least you would have someone who is able that's able to represent you in claims. claims. you have to even pay $2500 simply for the right to contest si a case. and you're again not entitled toase. representation when you do that. so it can be very costly process and also very confusing arduous

process to figure out how.. ->> people are probably sitting at home and saying but how could this happen. doesn't the constitution forbid the government seizing your property without due process. th ou >> right. and there are a lot of constitutional arguments that cons have been, that have gone on around this issue. and people have argued for instance the 8th amendment protects against excessive excessive finals for things like fo r a case that looked at in philadelphia where a family lost their home, an elderly couple. the man was struggling with cancer and it was found that his son had allegedly sold $20 pert of pot on the porch to a w confidential informant. and the son has still not been convicted of any crimes but yet -the parents the homeowners are facing the potential loss of their home. >> people probably rememberhe probably recall seeing newsy recall conferences where very proudonferenc v local law enforcement show off cars, show off boats show off

houses, the things they've they' gotten as the fruits of investigation. when did this become a common tool in use by police departments across the country.ntry.->> it's interesting, there's civil forfeiture houses origins.ery -at the very very beginning of our country when they needed a way to go after pirates who had these vessels that the owner may be all the way in europe but let's just go after the ship we cuse we can't get the guy who owns the ship which made sense. but it really fell by pretty soon thereafter. ot until the drugs took off in the 80's and come the reaganrs -years did it become common for police -- legislation was legislation wa actually in many cases keep the proceeds that they got are the things you mentioned and actually use them funnel them back on fighting.> your report indicated that it's pretty hard if you're caught inught in this, if you're a citizen whose been stopped by a county sheriff or something, to fight back to

get your property, your casherty back from the law enforcement agency. i thi i think something that's important to emphasize is these all vary tremendously from state to state. tremendously from state to stat -things like not being entitle to a lawyer and also with theh idea that often you have maybe 20 days to contest or 30 days to contest, and if you can't figure out how to do so in that time period the vehicle is automatically seized simply by default. >> so the clock is ticking from the moment they find cash in your glove compartment or a tv in your trunk and often thesese -are your reporting indicates in either poor or working class people with no access to attorneys, under banked or unba they're not people who know how to sophisticatedly work the system. >> >> yes. y -t i think that was a big surpriseprise for me looking at this was that maybe the laws are really to goo aft erafter king pins or mafia people

or wall street, conmen who in t ho those cases you're able toake actually take the proceeds of -clients and give them in some cases back to victims which again is a very appealing idea.a. -instead i've seen cases with very petty drug crimes or cases where people weren't actuallyple crime at all but simply had cash that they claim was going to maybe buy a used car or they were paid in cash for whatevereaso reason. and simply were pulled over on the side of the street and in some cases were even told.ase in case i mentioned in texas thete main case i write about in the -couples were told you can take mon your money and go on down the road or we will press money money -laundering charges and take yourng c kids away from you and put them into child protective services.ssfull >> has anybody successfully fought back against the seizurerty without trial and without and without due process.->> and one of the surprising things

is actually that when people did get it together to push back, -often the cases were just dropped. it indicated this is really often preying upon people who didn't know how to fight back or didn't have the resources to or had reasons to be scared to. in cases where people really did bring a case, including after this happened to hundreds, perhaps even a thousand people were stopped in the drug interdiction program there verye ver small town mostly people drivingpeople dri vi through in rental cars from out of state they actually brought a settlement in a class action lawsuit recently.y int er >> very interesting lead. sarah from the new york. sara h thanks a lot.m the new york. -thanks a lo show. >> woodruff: now, a second look at what some schools are doing to make sure students don't lose ground during the summer. the newshour's special correspondent for education john merrow, reported last summer about efforts in rhode island to reduce the academic gap between the wealthy and the

poor. >> summer is a time when some kids get to go to camp, travel with their families, explore museums. it's also a time when social and economic inequalities are evident. children in low incomech communities miss out on these stimulating opportunities.es. -they spend summer break in neighborhood hanging out.ighborho od->> i don't do a lot of math in the summer. >> i would sit home and watch tv.he kids w s don't do much. tv, >>.>> there's difference a summer experiences have serious consequences. learning loss. loss. children who don't have stimulating summer experiences forget more than math and reading skills they need to do well in school. reading achievement gap between rich and poor is actually wider than it

was in june. wider than it was in >> when kids hear summer school,en kids h they hear loser. failing. more school in an conditioned building. >> typically summer remediation programs are held in the -classroom. students complete work sheetssr oo and practice math and reading skills for hours at a time. in many districts including -providence road rode isl type could earning wasn't working.iation ->> we could have remediation until the cows came home. and one substantial numbers oftantial num be kids didn't attend. and two, it wasn't effective. wasn't ->> providence is trying to change that by turning summer school into an experience that turning supports classroom learning and excites students. this summer 716 low income students enrolled in summerts e -scholars a four week program fore program for m middle school students.s. the program which includes

transportation and two meals a day is free for kids but cost about $1200 per student. stu about half of the money comes from private sources and the school district funds the rest. at a time when 20% of districts across the country have eliminated summer school, providence has redirected itshas r summer remediation funds and is trying something different. six, seventh and eighth graders spent two mornings a week in the field with an instructor from a local organization like save the day and a teacher from thech district who insures that students who struggle in the year and remead in the fall. it' s in the afternoons it's back to the classroom.there, there teachers like matthew pierce create lessons to help students deepen their understanding of concepts they learned in the field.ing of les->> you have to keep theirlearn attention especially at this especially middle school or high school level.

they will not, they'll just shut you down on you if you don't do something fun and get them engaged. >> you add sat and it will make it float. if you add salt, make it enough it will float. it->> students work collaboratively in the field and they learned back in the classroom to solve complex problems. this is what educato deeper learning. summer scholars program is a partnership between the school district and 30 local organizations like the zoo the ymca and the odd audubon society. they work alone but providence-has been building these y relationships for years.->> this is not a weed. n -what we're trying to do is get rid of it letting it know it's not taking over here.nts a re >> today students are learningas about invasive species. rick taylor has been teaching in

providence for years. could s >> on a level we can say they're just pulling weeds but in lea rn-reality they're learning concepts they can bring back du ri into school during a school yearel that will help them. terms like biotic, abiotic what's th is the difference between annd a environment and a habitat.about tha-you can read about that in ate textbook or even actually go into the field and learn it first hand. i think that first hand -experience actually doing it makes a dramatic difference. dramatic difference. >> we do math like circumference diameter but we fu diameter but we have fun with it because you get to explore outside instead of like sitting inside and having your teacher feature you about it and you still don't know how to like do it. ->> hands-on learning is actually not a new idea. john dewey wrote bit over ar a hundred years ago. montesorri schools do it every day but it's appearing now in providence because educators here were not happy with the results they've been getting -using traditional teaching. >> this district doesn't have terrific scores.rrific scores.

>> >> don't your kids need remediation instead of this summer fun.->> i think the kind of drill and remediation that might lead to a temporary bump in scores is nots n the kinds of education that really any parent wants for his or her child. ->> i think that's a brancfrom a tree. a tree. i don't think we'r that out. what i've seen is a tremendous amount of growth very quickly in children.dren get them more actively and engaged. this program is very different is v from the traditional classroom -setting. settin we're learning about stuff. -lot of fun. >> superintendent lucy says programs like this are one way one w -to level the playing field. ->> our students who never viewed providence or maybe even their neighborhood.ink people under estimate what

what the experiences and interactions that middle class children tend to have, how that equips to engage with education.. so this is a far but very fun way to arrive at those types of opportunities. the evaluations show thatthe eva students who attended these programs have better engagement in their classes and better grades particularly in matt math. >> students participate in com -activities like basketball, computers, art and dance. dance. it may have felt like mp to some but even these some but these activities learni find. it. students w't the only ones >> i'm learning to relate to children in a much different way.ke the way that i've been -interact with them, it's very very different from what i would do in a normal->> i've had teachers say to me we need to figure out a way to

make the school look more like -this. i think we have to get better and better at giving kids kids opportunities to apply their learning in ways that are -interesting as well as informative. >> the obvious goal of the t summer scholars program is to curb summer learning loss. but this way of teaching might loss b ut change the way providence schools approach teag and learning all year long. >> brown: now, the problem ofda governing in america today. these days it's unusual for a pollster to find anyone who's happy with washington, and politicians themselves regularly air their frustrations. we begin our series of conversations examining thispe phenomenon with some historical perspective from beverly gage of yale university; former senate historian richard baker co-author of the new book, "the american senate"; and richard norton smith of george mason university. -welcome all three. welcome.->>

thank you. ->> start us off here. in your historian's hat what do -you see going on in washington today. how would you describe it? >> some of what's going on in washington at the moment is is stuff we've seen before in past.t. we tend to romanticize pas periods as being provocative beautiful periods -- we look back in the laws the right laws for past things for the rig it's always been very very messy.s been very very messy.-that said i do seeing a particular level of dysfunction that is differentunction that is from what they've seen beforeefore and in many ways is a little bit more extreme.->> we'll pick that up but f richard baker, you looked at this one institution where youstitution where you -senate. do you sear see a clear evolutionvi -devolution. >> all of it. you pick it out wherever you -want it. there's been times of great heart burn, heart feelings and

then times where they were really going to bull themselves out of the hole pass some reform legislation and move on into the future. in the mitt 1970's coming out of the nixon era passed some significant legislation war powers legislation budget legislation. and also reorganize their committees. so every member of a -could hire his or her own staff member. committees. that immediately fragmented the committees which used to be the sources of great power in the senate. now, we're at an era where the power rests with the floor the f leaders and not the committeeers and not th chairman.-so it's a different time. >> richard we've talked many times times about the he looks of the presidency vis-a-vis congress, right. so where do you see us now. ->> well, it's funny. maybe the biggest singlefere difference between 40 or 50 years ago, i do think of the

60's or the 70's when thency presidency was in some ways paramount.ne would -no one would confuse that with an era of good feelings, it was a to mal which is time in country but it was a time ofextr extraordinary legislative and governmental productivity. themselves. party was a broadly conservative party, the democrats were a broadly liberal. but each party was a coalition. so there were avits republicans and democrats.blicans. in you were a newcomer to the senate i remember hearing ted kennedy and bob dole say to me the advice they were given when they first arrived here, the bob develop said go spend some time with senator eastland fromto mississippi and ted kennedy said dick russell. dithe fact is, you learned within your own party caucus how to

deal with people with whom you fundamentally disagreed, and that in turn was great preparation for the larger senate and indeed the larger body politics. th that's gone. we now have a rigidly -conservative and rigidly liberal party. >> what about you look a lot at political engagement and civic actionht. how did that change and how does -does that fit into the kind of -that we're talking about here in washington. we're talking about here in washington. here atable, as they wouldble, as they w say in the senate, my friends here my distinguished friends and colleagues. i think they're absolutely righto make s that we want to make sense of -what's happening now the moment to look back to when a lot of these things against change ise is the 60's and 70's and that was a moment when many people on the right and on the left looked at

what they would have described as the washington establishment and said this isn't responsive enough to the people. and they thought there were aught there were a number of ways you could g about dealing with that. thatmen one is by having parties that were more identify oh idiologically consistent with them thefs. lujly consistent with them. -one h one was the primary system and the primaries having matter matters coming out of the crises t 1968 democratic convention innv particular. were initiated as realor democratic reforms and werehat p thing that people on the left throughout the 1970's, i think now have led to a very very combative situation and one that nobody ever intended.situation an >> part of that especially i'm just thinking as you were talking about in the reagan era of moving towards calling for smaller ernment, we have more, we have people in government, i don't want to say

disdaining government but harassing the government all theg on time. the time. here they come to an institution calls congress which basicallyns c means coming together. you hear people saying well if i get m y-can't get my own, anybody toto agree with my immigration legislation i'm going to take o off and do it on my own.o do it on where are you going to do it on your own.-this sense we're going to talk past each other. you mentioned the party caucuses earlier and the fact that they were quite heterogeneous. the fights would take placeld t behind closedand then they would come out behind those closed doors with a uniform positions. now they are more homogeneous party caucuses because the democrats from the south became -republicans. and so we have a much less diverse democratic party. -then of course you add the media and all tha3 to get ahead of the story. >> but we haven't the media atmosphere of course weighs into of course weighs into it.->> the fact of the matter is 40 or 50 years ago, whether or not not it wasolden era, there was a

mainstream media and they werestream med gate keepers. everyone new what the fringeav was. those walls have come down. the internet has removed those walls. cable tv, cable news and talkal radio thrives on the fringe. the way you get noticed in this town over night is to say something outrageous. that has had i think an enormouss impact for 24/7 news cycle. we have to feed the beast every day. beast every day. all of that i think this. i think the to get back to the notion of liberal and conservatives, there's a, are let's be honest, there's also a real libertarian movement in this country which is not limited to the tea party. if you're on the left, you have lots of reasons to suspect

government. you didn't likent iraq, you didn't think katrina was responded to ve very well. you don't like the nsa -revelations. if you're on the right distrust of big government has always been an article of fate. it's not just cynicism and it's not just media exploitation. there is a genuine reaction against in part philosophically but also what's perceived as the incompetence of government. >> what about the idea or ideal of a public good that has runun through our history.->> the founders of course spent much of their time contemplatingting this idea of a public good trying to set up a situation in which partisan impulses, internal impulses regional impulses, state impulses in which all of these would be tamped down enough that in fact the government would function tamed down now where it will functio gislators who would act in broad public good.egislators that

will act in a 1345u8 public small r republican ideal originally.nd of and of course that's worked better and less well over the years since. i think what we really lost now is a conversation about it. i mean it's sort of been taken for granted that this doesn't exist anymore that there's nothing else beyond partisan warfare in washington and haveton, more gestures toward the public. >> you get a very brief last a word here on that.t word here on that. >> i want to introduce campaign campaign finance.hose earlier days. -you had to do to be elected to the senate was convince your state legislator to vote for you and that was it. now we have in the case of nevada with harry reid's last election it cost his campaign $69 per vote in terms of. expenditures. unimaginable even 20 years years earlier.ier. >> all right. what, we've put a lot on the table for this conation series. beverly gage, richard smith

richard baker thank you all three and we'll continue this series in days ahead. >> t ->> thank you. >> now the future of the u.s. any questions surrounding it. the mission the money and the quest io politics. more than two years ago, space shuttles atlantis touched downouch dow for the final time at the kennedy space center. >> after over 30 years this space had its place in history and come to a final stop.>> the ->> the landing marked the end of more than a three decade long era for the shuttle program -came after nasa's glor e days with trips to the moon. the man's space flight has notli been the sole focal point of nasa's success. powerful telescopes renoofd insights about thousands of potential planets. astronauts still do research on t the international space station. robotic rovers on mars have beamed back images and

information about the red planet's surface. but facing budget cutbacks and political pressures nasa now -faces a looming question, what comes next.n, what comes next. >> we'll astronauts to an asteroid for the first time in history. history->> in a 2010 speech on space exploration, president obama pressed for further discovery. the space program heeded thellnd -call and recently launched asteroid redirect mission, an ambitious program to capture a -small asteroid. nasa is also already at work on the orion and the space launch system. syst new designs for man/space exploration. joel is looking at all of the questions connected to nasa as part of a new series by the washington post. the first article ran this week. it focused on the asteroid project called mission improbable.. -joel joins me now.

why mission improbable. mission newshour. improbably. here.-this is a challenging situation for nasa. if you're the agency, where are you going to go, what are you going to do. this is a question tha posed for really for decades now. really for decades now. we want to go to mars but really hard. it would be very expensive it's exp very challenging technically toengi go to mars with human beings and to bring them back alive.->> too far away. >> it would cost many billions cost m of dollars. of dollars. the current policy of the united states is to go to an asteroid. this is the 2010 national spaces policy.-president obama said let's go to an asteroid. what i didn't know until i did my research, my reporting on this is that to go to an asteroid would take about a year. even a near earth asian asteroid.l where are you think where are they. they orbit around the sun, theyhey're don't come close to to the earth.

mary moving in different speed. it would take a long time.ave the nasa doesn't have the money to do that. it's a very daunting challenge so they've come up with this fall back plan which is to bring the allege asteroid back to orbitound the around the moon. that even possible? >> yes, it's pos what'swill it actually happen, that's a good question. that's what we looked at. a lot of scientists say we don't have a good target.get. if you look at the near earth asteroids the ones you might potentially go grab. grab. >> that are out there or the sun. orbiting earth does but they move at all the sun different speeds. o so it can't be spinning too rapidly, it can't be tumbling, it can't be just like a loosene bag of rocks. it can't be too big it can't be t too small. and so it can't be moving to quickly -- too quickly or rapidly relative to the earth. to find a target rock they haven't found one yet.

they haven't found their target rock yet. that's their first challenge which rock they will actually grab if they try to do this. >> you write in the article about this disagreement in the nasa in the science the space community about whether this is ->> it's not the most popular mission nasa has ever proposed. the space scientists they have aa list what they'd like to do. every ten years they do a survey-what are our top producers.ies. not on -- top priorities. on the lis ->> not even on the list. >> this is not considered a of a technology driven capabilitiesdriven cap type of mission to show that we can do something like this. most importantly it gives a destination for this new rock that they're building and the new spaceship. they're building a spacesh called orion which is a capsule that will go on top of this heavy rocket called the sla the space launch system. where is this rocket going to r -go. going to

it. now president bush said go backdent bush -to the moon. we'll build a big rocket, we'll build the orion capsule and bailed abuild a lander. obama said we've done that. this is a big debate, should we go back to the moon or not. no where people want to go is mars. an argument could be made that to go bac the moon doesn't but in the meantime we still have this big rocket and this space capsule. thi witness. well the asteroid redirect mission where you capture this rock bring it into orbit around the moon, go up, visit it in orbit, do a space walk with a couple astronauts, they willcouple examine it and bring samples back.bring samples back. a lot of moving we call it mission improbable because i don't think you'd want to gamble this is really going to happen based on nasa's timetable. they're hoping to do it by 2021.s all >> it's caught up in this question of what is nasa'smi mission now going forward.->> yes.

what is nasa trying to do. what's the point of this. is. this is a agency that's done incredible things. and some day maybe nasa will lead an international effort to put people on mars. mars. that's the goal that everyoneeryon e wants to do. short of that maybe get the people in orbit around mars. short of that maybe somebody could go to a near ear asteroid. this is one step behind that. this is copying a examining a rock that you captured. >> one question. is this a lack of money making it so hard to figure that out is -it more than that.more tha n >> space is hard and with human beings it's difficult and expensive to do it if you wanted safely and do it the way nasa does it way nasa does it which is the presumption is are astronauts going to come home alive from this mission.onauts going to come home align o do it and nasa for years has a flat budget now it's declining a l

little bit.bit so an an argument can be made that they've been asked to do really difficult things but they have difficult things but have not been given the money to do it. it. joel, fascinating first epsinosa and we'll be looking piece and we'll be looking at >> thank y ou j-what is next in the series. >> thank you judy. >> thank you. >> brown: again, the major developments of the day. a court in egypt said former president hosni mubarak could be freed by the end of the week. the death toll from violence in egypt neared a thousand. and the stream of syrian refugees into iraq in the last five days reached 30,000. >> woodruff: online, we recently published seven tips to keep you out of the nursing home. well, viewers responded with tips of their own. kwame holman tells us more. >> holman: they're called "life hacks," dozens of simple ways to make life easier from installing automatic night lights to using a shower chair. read our reader-submitted ideas and add your own on our health page.

plus, get a sneak preview of the upcoming "pbs newshour weekend." watch anchor hari sreenivasan's first rehearsal, including a live interview from cairo, on our home page.w up all that and more is on our web site newshour.pbs.org. >> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. on tuesday, we'll look at t president obama, the sports fan. i'm judy woodruff. >> brown: and i'm jeffrey brown. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. thanks for joining us. good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us.

>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org g

>> welcome to the "journal." >> our top stories. the latest twist in the revolution. >> the tales are alive with the sound of music. the music industry in germany increases its sales. >> new zealand becomes the 14th country to egalize same-sex marriage after divisive national debate.