>> rose: welcome to our summer sere wrez we bring you some of our favorite programs from the past year year. tonight lee daniels' "the butler." joining me to talk about the film with screenwriter danny strong and two of its stars -- forest whitaker and oprah winfrey. >> it was a challenge. it was one of the most challenging roles i've ever played. i think because of the sort of being able to communicate without words, you know? the process of going through all these years and the age prog says, trying to carry these experiences that were painted in the script by danny and lee, the side of myself so that you could feel them and know them and

they'd be a part of me and understanding the history so i could take that tapestry and pull it together. >> because it's also for me a love story. a love story through the eyes of this man and one of the reasons i said yes to lee after he was relentless in asking me to do it is because i wanted the tapestry the depth, the broadness of that communication between a husband and a wife and particularly a middle-class black family to be seen by the rest of the world. it's something we don't see very often and i think that women have been the backbone regardless of race during that period for a number of reasons and i wanted to be able to show that in that one character. >> rose: lee daniels' "the butler" for the hour. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following:

♪ give a little bit give a little bit of my life for you ♪ now's the time when we need to share so send a smile we're on our way back home ♪ >> rose: additional funding provided by these funders: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of news and multimedia information services worldwide. from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

>> rose: you gene allen was born on a virginia plantation in 1919 he worked in a country club until 1952. he then found a job as be a butler in the white house. he ended up spending 34 years there. he served under eight presidents from harry truman to ronald reagan. he saw some of the pivotal events in u.s. history-- the cuban missile crisis, the freedom rides, the assassinations of j.f.k. and martin luther king, jr., the vietnam war and watergate. his life, wrote president obama after allen's death in 2010, represented an important part of the american story. now a new movie has been made inspired by eugene allen's story. here is the trailer for lee daniels' "the butler." >> are you political mr. gaines? >> no, sir. >> good. we have no tolerance for politics at the white house. >> i'm cecil gaines. i'm the new butler. >> you hear nothing, you say nothing. you only serve. >> you know he got that job himself?

the white house called him, he didn't call the white house. >> i want to hear all the stories. >> i don't know how many stories you're going to hear because they done swore them to some kind of secret code. >> did you go to an all-colored school, cecil? >> i didn't go to school, mr. president, i grew up on the cotton farm. >> don't you lose your temp we are that man. it's his world, we just live in it. >> about time you go ahead. >> you looking for some help? >> you done broke our window, you done stole our food and now you're asking for a job. >> i know how to serve. >> they said this new white boy's smooth. >> i'm thrilled to be working with all of you over the next four years. >> dr. king, what did your daddy do? >> he was a butler. the black domestic plays an important role in our history. >> something special is going on

here. mr. president? >> i know your son is a freedom rider. >> turn the bus! >> i never understood what you all really went through. you've changed my heart. >> this there's this whole black power movement going on. i give you the green light to gut those sons of bitches. >> they're going to kill you. >> you need to go. >> what? >> get the hell out of my house. >> sorry, mr. butler, i didn't mean to make fun of your hero. >> everything you are and everything sufficient because of that butler.

>> rose: joining me now is lee daniels who directed the movie, danny strong who wrote the script and two of the film's stars, forest whitaker who plays the butler and oprah winfrey who plays his wife gloria. welcome one and all. >> thank you. >> rose: i'm pleased to have you here. you, sir, are at your creative best. congratulations. >> thank you. >> rose: you, magnificent. >> thank you, sir. >> rose: but you, sir, are just brilliant. this is an extraordinary performance over a span of years to capture this person, these ideas, all that you have done was really an extraordinary achievement. >> thank you. thank you for that compliment, that's very nice. thank you. >> rose: how difficult was it for you? >> it was a challenge. it was one of the most challenging roles i ever played. you know, i think because of the sort of being able to communicate without words, you know? the process of going through all these years and the aging process. trying to carry these

experiences that were painted in the script by danny and lee inside of myself so that you could feel them and know them and they'd be a part of me. and then understanding the history so i could take that tapestry and pull it together. but it's a love story, so i guess trying to navigate the feeling that i had for my wife. >> hello. (laughter) >> and trying to make my life not to make her upset. it challenged us and it challenged me and my son. yeah, but it was about that. >> because it's also for me a love story. a love story through the eyes of this man and one of the reasons i said yes to lee after he was relentless in asking me to do it is because i wanted the tapestry, the depth, the broadness of that communication between a husband and a wife and

particularly a middle-class black family to be seen by the rest of the world. it's something we don't see very often and i think that women have been the backbone. you know, regardless of race during that period for a number of reasons and i wanted to be able to show that in that one character. >> rose: and what did you hope to bring in this script? what story? >> i wanted to tell the history of the civil rights movement. it seems to me that that movement has not been properly told in hollywood. and you have world war ii, you've got the holocaust. these are extremely famous, they're part of our national consciousness and a lot of that have is because of movies and t.v. shows that have been made about them. there haven't been that many movies made about the civil rights movement and it's a shame because it's one of the most important dynamic and dramatic events of the 20th century. it deserves to have many movies made about it. for me i just really wanted to try and push that into the national consciousness the way that these other events have

been dramatized. >> rose: the scope of history is told in intimate personal stories. >> exactly. exactly. that's the joy of doing "the butler." because the butler is in the white house and you can see him in meetings where decisions that are going to affect the entire nation are being made and through his family you see how those decisions are played out in the lives of everyday americans so it seemed like if we could make that work it could be a powerful film. >> rose: who first saw the possibilities of this as a movie? >> lars us skind, amy pass squall from sewn fwhoi told lars iskind and "spider-man" and so she told lars to option it and she since passed and danny was brought aboard and then i was brought aboard and it was between me and steven spielberg, can you believe it, charlie? >> rose: so steven said "i'm busy"? >> i don't know what happened. >> rose: this is what they do in

hollywood. "if steven is busy --" (laughter) >> i wouldn't mind taking second place for that. (laughter) very good. >> rose: steven's busy, so go to lee. so they go to you. what's the challenge? >> the challenge is trying to get the budget to meet this epic story. because the studios will only give african american dramas a specific amount of money and danny's script spans decades and so that's a lot of money. so we were going to do it. the movie was green lit, we were going do it for a budget and i couldn't cram it into the budget that the film deserved. so it was frustrating and oprah -- i said "oprah, we're green lit with the studio. we're doing a movie." "i don't know. i don't know about this."

and solarz iskind passed away. >> i didn't get you would 6--- believe you would get money for this because i had done "the great debaters." what he is saying is really true. it's very difficult to get a black drama green lit in hollywood because the theory is black dramas don't work. >> lara passed away. she had cancer. and on her deathbed, literally, she was raising money for film. literally on her deathbed. and she hadn't raised money before because she was a studio girl. she went from studio to studio. she said "lee, how do you raise money?" i said "come with me, sister." >> rose: been there; done that. >> so we went from one investor to the next and i think that after her death a lot of the investors that we went to felt

guilty and rose to the occasion and -- >> and if not guilt a sense of respect for her >> exactly. >> i would say respect. >> and love. >> oy, this is republic's show. >> rose: "what charlie meant to say." >> she left enough money in her film to keep her company open so this could get made? isn't that amazing? >> it's so interesting, guys, we had a screening in new york last night-- recently, and what was interesting to me, when you were talking about her i really do believe this so don't call me cuckoo, i do believe that all of us are energy and even when you pass on you're energy. something that you were talking about her last night, i thought lara is all up in this and she is going to be ushering this film in a way that we really can't imagine. so i think the spirit of her has

been throughout this film and we're going to fill it -- fill the spirit of her, really feel the spirit of her once this is released. i think she's all in it. >> rose: so you got the money. you got the script. >> yes. >> rose: you've got to get actors. >> yes. >> rose: so forest whitaker came to you instantly? >> with forest, you know -- with forest this is -- so beautiful. and it's a testament to who he is as a person and how he -- >> and an oscar winner. >> rose: i was going to say. thank you. >> he came in to audition. and i was humiliated asking him to audition. i said "dude, you know, you are who you are but i have to see how the --". >> rose: you're idi amin. >> yes, let's see if idi amin and oprah have chemistry. >> rose: >> the two of them came in and it was magic and i grabbed oprah and i said "this is it."

he must have thought "what the hell is going on?" and i grabbed him and said -- >> yeah, we were in a little suite at the chateaux and after we had done a few lines together and i think we did -- we rehearsed the birthday scene. and lee pulled me into the kitchen and he goes "i think he's the one." yes! (laughter) i go "i so want to work with forest!" i had wanted to work with forest before. did you know this, charlie, that when he was nominated for -- i think you would already been nominated when i called you, right? >> yes. >> rose: >> for "last king of scotland." i just called him up in that way that, gee, i would love to meet that person. i'd seen "last king of scotland." and i called him up and said "i just admire you so and i would love to meet you and your family and could you all please -- would you like me to have a party and would you come to my house and bring your trends so that we could celebrate you whether you win the oscar or not?

i also met lee this that way. i saw "precious" and i called lee -- (laughter) i called lee -- i got lee's cell phone number and i called lee and i said "hi, lee, this is oprah winfrey." and he goes "i'm at the sun dance film festival, we just won the best award." i said "why is your damn cell phone on?" so i love calling up people. >> rose: i want to meet you. >> i want to celebrate you. i call him just to say i want to celebrate you. swered, because it saidwhy i "unknown." and we talked about this the first time you interviewed me. "uownkn meant that's money. so i thought that's possible money for my next movie. hello? as i'm walking up the stage to get my award. crazy. se: if it said "oprah" you would have answered it, too. >> i don't know. i don't know if i would have believed it. i would have thought it was a prank or something. >> rose: did you have any sense of the power of the script and the story or did you clearly

understand that if we got this right we could have something here that transcends movies and transcends -- >> i think i felt that way when i read the scrip. you know, i -- the motion of the movie, the historical moments that were so reflected in our emotions because they're so connected to what's going on. i thought if we could accomplish that, if he could accomplish that then we could do something special so i started just like bearing down on it as an artist to try to understand how to convey that. >> rose: even though this is a script, did you go in search of eugene allen? >> i did. i talked to charles allen. i talked to people who worked with him. i had some confidential conversations with some butlers. i talked to a number of individuals all the way through and i started working with butler coaches to understand just the mentality and the philosophy behind it. i spoke to to some civil rights leaders that i wanted to just pick their mind a bit about what they were thinking and then started thinking about my own past and my grandparents and my great grandfather because i knew my great grandfather and my

father, they lived to very old ages in their 90s both of them. so i was just remembering some of the incidents that i lived in in my life, too, and started to combine these things together to make something true. >> rose: how about gloria for you? capturing -- >> well, i was a little nervous about this because i hadn't picked up that instrument in 15 years. and i had just -- >> rose: an acting instrument? >> the acting instrument. i put hit in the corner and said "well, those days are gone, and wasn't that nice?" and -- >> really. >> yes! >> rose: it's amazing to think of. >> yes, i had. >> that's incomprehensible! >> well, i had. because ied that day job that sort of took over my life. and it was always difficult to get someone to say yes, i can do the movie but can you do it between july 12 and august 14 because i have to be back for the september -- start of a new season. ". so i just threat go and also my disappointment over "beloved" and when i started talking to

lee about this he said "you need to come back, you need to act." he sent me several scripts. (laughter) which i shall not mention. some -- >> rose: why not? (laughter) >> i sent her a script about a serial killer? >> i was going to play the serial killer. not only am i not going to -- i said "i'm going to burn this script and do not send me anything like this again and if you do that your karma is going to change." >> rose: hay, dude, what are you doing? >> what are you doing. >> but who would have been she would have -- >> he said "i want people to lose the oprah thing." well, i don't have to go all the way to being a serial killer to lose the oprah thing. hello. there's some character in between! can you believe it? so i was a little nervous. i called -- he suggested that i call susan batson, the acting coach. >> rose: right. >> she came and had a session with me because i was saying -- >> rose: this is before you decided? >> this is before i decided and she came and i had a session with her and she -- in 20

minutes i was exposing all of my stuff and she said "you still have it. you have to vulnerability, you have to spaces where you can go inside, you can reach and you can find gloria. you have to do the work to do it." because i started out saying to her "it's just a small role." it's a small role! and there's no such thing as a small role! yeah, no such thing as a small role. and she to me represents -- she's a composite of that era. you know the night we screened -- we had a screening and none of us said -- charles allen, the son of eugene allen, had not seen the film before. and he stands up at the screening at the end and -- because gayle is hosting this screening and she says "mr. charles allen is here, tell us what you thought?" and he stands up and the first thing he says "well, you threw my mother under the bus." and then we all go, oh, lord,

what's he going to say? he actually liked the film. he loves it. and i said "well, i certainly took some liberties with your mother." his mother is smoked a couple packs of pal mall everyday and i don't think -- she wasn't a drinker, not to that extent and certainly wasn't tiptoing out with the next door neighbor because the next door neighbor wasn't terence howard. so we took some liberties because what she loved to do was watch "the price is right" and watched the soap operas. so -- >> rose: you got that. >> you got that. >> rose: so you finally said yes because something -- >> because -- >> rose: because this was a busy time in your life. own -- >> i was trying to build a network and i said to lee no, no no. and finally said yes because, you know, my entire life i've been a student of the history. when i was a young girl i knew all of langston hugh's poems. i knew all of -- and that's a lot of poems. all the major poems i knew and i

knew the entire "god's trombones" and i knew sojournny truth speeches and fanny lou hamer speeches so i was an orator and the idea of knowing who you are for me had been the reason i can sit in board rooms and be the only woman and be the only black because it reminds me of that line from a maya angelou poem where she says "i come as one but i stand as 10,000." i stand as 10,000 because i know where i come from. i know the path that was paved for me. i know crown that i know wear holds the jewels that all of those people before me prepared for me. and i know that there's an entire generation that doesn't understand that. they don't have the context for who they are and how they got to be who they are. as, you know, african americans, young african americans. and also i just wanted to offer that story to people in a way this they could see the greater picture -- >> rose: you saw something you had to do in the end? after all this, i've got to do

this? >> yes, and, you know, my whole work is about opening the heart space for people and i said, wow i think here's an opportunity that you can show people something in a way that they can see the best of themselves. yeah. >> rose: what was the hardest part for this? you've got your cast now. you've got everything in place. >> really making sure that everything is from the shoes to the makeup to the -- their accent to their head movements, everything is honest. that everything is really, really honest and keeping it honest and that's a hard -- that's the hard -- >> he's a truth seeker. may i say this about him? he is the kind of director -- i mean, that's why every actor that ever works with him loves him. because he will not let you get away with a split second of anything less than the truth. he literally -- >> rose: has to be authentic and true? >> not only truth. not only truth. he will call you over to the monitor -- this happened to me. call you over to the monitor and

say "look at that. see where she's leaning in right there? that's good. that's good. see where she took a breath." i'd say "yeah." he'd say "drop the breath. too much drama." >> rose: this is also about family. a lot about family. tell me a little bit about that. >> i think it's exemplifyed in the father/son relationship. our relationship is more about the absence and my not being there for us and it causes a lot of problems for her and for the family. but with my son, i'm trying so desperately to keep my family together and to let my family have all the things they need and desire. and it's my quest for my son to live a better life than what i did. and he -- he makes a decision to do a pursuit of trying to pursue a great life, too. but in his mind doing that he has to confront what he considers the demons of the country or the demons of social injustice, you know? so i -- my motivations are all about caring, in a way.

i care so much for my son. i don't want them to go to fiske i want him to stay out of the south. i know what's happened in the south. i want him to stay right here in washington, d.c. at howard university so i can protect him. i say in the movie "i can't protect him there." he goes there to this place and then he starts this movement of what i taught him, because of the way my character was a trailblazer. he left this sharecropper's town and went across to washington, d.c. and then the white house. my dad -- i used to think about that, too. he left texas and went to los angeles, you know? and my family, that was unheard of, in my family you stayed right there on the farm. you can put a trailer on the land but you don't go. in that case my grandfather's not coming to visit you, you know what i mean? you've got to make a big step. i've made this step, now i'm here, and he goes and starts to confront these things and i'm thinking, hey, stop, you can be okay. you can have education and family. you can have a life, you can have a home. he's like "no, dad, everybody

deserves a life, everybody deserves a home. i can't be happy inside myself unless i know these rights are there." so we explore this civil rights movement in this personal way. that's what's brilliant about what you did, lee. i'm always arguing and dealing with him over the real moments of history that, like, give us an emotional understanding of the civil rights movement of what's happening, what's occurring. and that's kind of a movement of our family. and ultimately the reconciliation of our family. the kind of coming back together because of the deep love, the foundation of who we are. >> rose: and coming to truth. >> coming to truth. and appreciation. >> rose: and you see that -- there's a moment in which one of the sons goes off to vietnam. you can't protect him in vietnam. >> yes. >> rose: and the agony that brings to you. >> yes. >> it destroyed our family in some ways. for just a moment we lost our heart. because we'd already lost one son because he left. i had to draw a line in the sand to force him to do what i considered the safe and right thing. now we lose our son and she

starts drinking more and more. >> i love that line that's in the voiceover where you said "you lost them to vietnam and you didn't even know what that war was for. you didn't even know what that was all about." >> rose: this is a scene reflecting some of this. this is when cecil gains, played by forest and his son louis, take a look. >> what's the name of that movie honey? >> "in the heat of the night." >> "in the heat of the night" with sid any port yay. >> that's a white man's fantasy of what he wants us to be. sflp >> what are you talking about? he's breaking down barriers for all of us. >> by being white. by acting white. sidney poitier is nothing but a rich uncle tom. >> look at you, all puffed up with your hat on your head covering -- coming in here saying what you want. you need to go.

>> what? >> get the hell out of my house! get on out! >> i'm sorry, mr. butler, i didn't mean to make fun of your hero! >> everything you are and everything you have is because of that butler! >> rose: that's danny's brilliant line. >> you wrote that line, thank you! >> you delivered it. >> rose: we often ask men how they can write through a woman's voice and we ask women how they write through a man's voice and we ask you in terms of capturing the black experience. part of that has to do with, i assume, something is within you but also something you went in search of to make sure you had right. >> yeah, absolutely. it's the job of the writer to write characters that aren't themselves, from men writing women, women writing men. in the case of this project, i had a few powerful weapons at my disposal. one was memoirs of people that worked at the white house that i read that really helped get me into the mind-set of what that

world was like. my other big secret weapon was lee daniels. lee was an amazing collaborator on the scripts and had a great deal of influence and it was -- we just had a wonderful experience. >> rose: what do those memoirs tell you? >> oh, god, everything. that's the movie is what's in those memoirs. what life was like working in the white house. seeing these halls of power, not being able to comment on what was happening. trying to be invisible while at the same time there are events happening that you know are going to affect your life. and it's extremely dramatic and very powerful and something that i felt if we could haarness into a movie it could just really be special. >> rose: that line "everything you are and everything you have is because of that butler" is the essence of why i said yes to this film. because i believe that for my generation and certainly for my generation.ing that i am and i see that very clearly, have m the daughter of a maid.

my grandmother was a maid. her mother was a maid so i understand that perseverance and just the courage, the courage that it took to get up everyday andwa ie people saw you as not evenfully. you know, you and i -- when i did cbs "this morning" you i have theav movie, that scene where cecil gaines goes into thenisration -- >> rose: the butlers. >> and asks for a raise. and i think about the courage it would take to walk into that room, how many times he would have to practice what he was going to say and how he was going to say it and know that he was going to be turned down and still have the courage to stand in there and do it anyway. that was his way of being a war your. of standing up. what it took to get up every morning and still maintain your values, take care of your family and be a man and know that the

rest of the world didn't see you that way. that's real courage. >> rose: he basically says in this scene -- you tell me, forest. what does he say to the guy when the guy says "well, i guess you can leave." >> the black butlers aren't paid as much as the white staff and i think that we do the same job. >> and he says "well, if you feel that way you can leave." >> rose: and you said "i knew you'd say that so i asked the president." and you'd left -- not left the room, but -- not left the job. and you've seen him say it before so when you go in and he says that you say "i knew you'd say that. i told the president and he said perhaps you two should talk about it." (laughter) >> it turns everything around.o?

>> i was blown away when i was interviewing -- >> this is our favorite scene. >> i was just blown away when i was interviewing people that worked in the white house because i interviewed butlers, ushers, engineers when i found that out that the african american staff was paid 40% less than the white staff for years and years and years and it was so difficult to get promotes from houseman to engineers office. really blown away that that existed not just outside but in the halls of power as well. >> rose: the interesting story here is the son. amazing performance. and he leaves. he's cast out because of his demeanor, because he doesn't seem to have the respect and because you worry he's going to leave and you finally say "just go." and that's part of his journey. what happens to him? because in the end, without giving the details of this, there comes an appreciation of

father and son. >> yes. >> rose: and that's the journey of this fil >> that was the reason why i did the movie. i didn't do it because it was an important civil rights movie. i did it because it was a father-and-son's love story. and, you know, i have a 17-year-old she was 13 when we -- when i got the script and he was fighting with me. i'd say black, he'd say white. i'd say day, he'd say night. i'd say go to bed, he'd say no. when does it stop? when does it stop? you know? and so this -- it wasn't until we were doing the bus scene that i realized that this was -- that these soldiers were fighting for freedom and that this was a movie that was not just a father-and-son sorry but a bigger story. and, yeah, it was -- it was as oprah says, that ah-ha moment when you realize it's not what you thought it was, it's something. happened on thes.

that realization. >> on the bus we were -- it was hot. it w a rea bus, we had -- danny niece that scene. he's flirting with denzel washington's daughter in the scene. and so we're on the bus and i yell "action" and from nowhere comes the klan members and the nazis and the spitings and the -- >> terrifying. >> you were in there, too. the bus is shaking, the bus is shaking and we hear these deafening noises and the sweat and the sheets and the crosses and i yell "cut!" a little too soon, because i was afraid, got nervous. we were nervous on the bus. and i said "cut!" and it wouldn't stop. so i'm at the window saying "cut! cut!" and they wouldn't stop. and i look at danny and i look at ya ya and dave and i know at that moment that this is what these kids went through.

and there wasn't nobody around to yell cut. >> there was a fear and courage. >> this is what's beautiful about this. the when they're training with lawson and you see the fear that they have but they're standing by their dwixs and you see them breaking and being yelled at but they confront their fears because what they stand for is more important and they sit at that counter and it's so powerful. >> i had six of my girls at the screening -- >> rose: when you say "girls" you mean -- >> i mean my girls from south africa -- >> rose: who are entering american colleges? >> they're in colleges and they, you know, are not students of their of aman history. they know about t civil rights movemend all that stuff. so last night we were having discussnsabout the training and i was explaining that all of these kids that went on the bus, that that was really real

because in order to have the ability to not to fight back and not to just go against your -- because somebody spits on you there's a visceral reaction that you have that you want to knock that person out now go through the non-violence training, to take it because we had the conversation this morning with the girls about what would have happened had one of those people hit a white person or spit at them back. >> holy cow. >> holy cow. i mean, all would have broken loose. it would have been a bloodbath for sure. that's what's so extraordinary about it. >> rose: it reminds me of a scene in "42" about jackie robinson in which branch ricky is talking to the actor who played jackie robinson and he, the actor, says to harrison ford who plays branch richie "you need somebody here who's tough enough to fight back." and branch ricky says "i need somebody who's tough enough not to fight back." and that's the point.

>> rose: that is the point. that is the point. as we watched history go forward where do you think we are in terms of somehow making sure that the battles that are being fought have come to where the end point out to be in terms of black and white and racism in a country? >> well, we're not at the end point of where we're supposed to be but we're not supposed to be there. i'm going to let you speak toe that because you speak so eloquently to being in a living history. but i just would like to say when you look at the film, the beginning of of the film when the butler is sitting there and reflecting on his life and how he got to be there and there's the lynching memory and then how that film ends full circle, you know, in 2008 and what happened in 2008 in? that is one man's lifetime. i have to say only in this

country-- there's not another country in the world where you would have the span of that much richness and development, i think, in terms of cultures coming together. i think that's pretty extraordinary. not to say that we don't have a long way to go and lots of other things we need to accomplish racially and otherwise but that's pretty extraordinary that from in the beginning of eugene allen's-- cecil's life-- until 2008 that off black president. from 1926 when the movie opens until 2008, that's extraordinary. that's pretty extraordinary. >> rose: it's an extraordinary story in terms of -- you hear this every time in terms of what it meant. your character -- gloria is not going to see barack obama elected. >> yeah. >> rose: but you understand how -- what is seminal moment it is.

>> do you know that the real gloria, the real mrs. allen, die it had day before he was elected. she died on november 3! she died november 3. they campaigned for him and she died november 3. go ahead. >> rose: are's another great line, just because there's so many good lines, in which eugene allen is being -- the butler comes to the white house. he's coming to the white house to meet the president and some young aide says to your character, you gene allen, mr. gaines in this case "i'll show you the way." and what does he say? >> "i know the way." (laughter) >> yeah, that was a great moment. >> it's your point about history. >> yeah. we're talking about how we achieved it and it's still sitting on that promissory note that martin luther king talked about, the promissory note of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. this is the note that was promised to all americans for human rights. so this civil rights movement which isn't really a history,

it's a living history because we're still moving in the same shape towards accomplishing what was the initial promise. he talks about that that vault, you know, he refuses to believe that it's empty. and that all of us can have the things that we deserve. so we move through this line of living civil rights history which is american history because in order to reach that final goal that's when we'll truly be americans because that was the promise of the constitution and declaration of independence. that was the promise to all of us and we haven't accomplished it. so we see these cycles moving, like the emmitt till side of the film, we see his mother and her response and we move to our world and see that this circle which is going on then is still going on right now all over the country. have w many different other people and we say how can we break this cycle to move to the next place? so we can finally get to the end which is the promised land he talked about. because he talked about -- he said i just want to live a few years into the second half of the 20th century. so now we're living in the 21st

century. those were martin's words. we haven't done it yet. i'm so disappointed that we haven't been able to achieve his promise yet. but that's what we're trying to get to and that's where we're going. and this film is part of the dialogue to make us all keep talking. >> rose: as oprah pointed earlier and i think the president said this when he went to selma during the campaign. he's part of a new generation and my generation stands on the shoulders of those who came before and other generations will come forward to stand on the shoulders of those, like you, who are there today. >> rose: but what is so important is to know what those shoulders meant and to know that you are standing on the shoulders. i mean. that's what i think this film -- >> rose: and to know what it meant for them to have broad shoulders you could stand on. >> what's been so exciting to me is during the process of promoting the film we were doing a junket the other day and a young white reporter said to me -- a guy in liz late 20s, he said "i voted for barack obama because i thought it was the right thing to dos it was a r.a.

r.a. moment." and he says only after seeing this film do i understand how important it was that i voted for barack obama. i said "well, that's a reason to do the film." he said "i now understand it wasn't a good decision it was the best decision to vote for barack obama." >> that's the reason to do the movie when you hear something like that. >> you did brilliant things because you showed different faces of fighting against social injustice. and there are many ways to fight against social injustice. you can do it by whiting a note or whispering in somebody's ear and asking a boss to step aside. or you can do hit in the arab spring or protest at trayvon martin marches, however, but there's many different ways to do it. >> correct. >> and you see all these different places that are so different from each other but all different faces of ways to trying to find social justice and i think that's the message to the youth today and the message to all of us. >> rose: there's also this. this is a story about the sweep

of history but it's also this very much of a love story. it's the story of generations. the story of responsibility and it's the story-- and i don't know whether this is true or not this part-- when you gene allen and your character gets to go to the white house to a state dinner. >> that's very true. he was the first butler -- >> rose: president reagan invited -- >> he was the first one to ever be invited to a state dinner. i think that was --. >> rose: and mr. allen was so happy. >> rose: what did gloria say? >> well, look at her! she said "finally got to the white house!" >> rose: i'm going to see where my man works. roll tape. here's the scene. >> you're very popular. everyone says you're the man. i had no idea. >> i wish i could take credit for that. >> i'd like to invite you to the state dinner next week.

>> i'm going to be there serving. >> not as a butler, cecil, i'm inviting you as a guest. >> but the president prefers for me to serve him personally. >> don't you worry about ronnie. i'll take care of that. so we'll see you next week, you and your wife. >> my wife? >> it's gloria, yes? >> yes, ma'am. >> oh, that's fantastic! >> rose: you two are hugging there. tell me about it. >> you know that walk she does, too, she walks away? >> i love that walk. >> we practiced that mrs. reagan walk for quite a bit. and we shot it about six takes just the walk alone. >> but we worked on creating -- i didn't want -- i was in another movie 15 years ago where i had a bedroom scene with danny glover and i just -- you know,

we arrived on the set in the morning and it's like "good morning, how are you?" then you're climbing into bed. i didn't want that. so i started working on creating some kind of connection -- (laughter) first day in the trailer. so i would see -- >> rose: so that there would be a natural -- >> so that there would be a natural intimacy. that wouldn't be "good morning forest. what side of the bed are you on?" yes. and so forest, you know, would come in and depending upon what was going on that day with his character sometimes he would be three different ages in one day. >> rose: that's why the performance -- >> it's un-- it's extraordinary. and i wouldn't want to bother him. i'd see he'd already gone in, he's in that space. so i would just go over and rub his shoulder and sometimes i'd be standing outside the trailer waiting for him to get done. i'd say somebody let me know when forest is almost done. he'd be standing there and he'd say "what are you doing here?"

and i'd say "i just want to walk with you to the set. " and i'd take his hand. >> rose: did you know this was happening to you, forvest? (laughs) >> it was magical. sometimes it was timeless just walking hand in hand. it just felt like -- >> part of the substory in the film itself-- and that's why i end the music at the end. everybody wanted me to end with something patriotic and, you know, it's like -- what i wanted was it was a love story. many lod with what -- i end with dinah washington's song that they were in more their making love moment "i'll close my eyes" which is -- doesn't say "this is a civil rights movie" or "this is a father and son" this is a love story. >> there's a form where he talks about closing it and he says "i love you this way because i don't know any other way of loving you, i love that way when you put your hand on my chest, i

put my hand on yours, when i fall asleep, your eyes clothes." >> oh, my god. >> talk to me. talk to me, forest! (laughter) >> i can hear you. (laughter) >> charlie! >> kids ain't home no more! >> rose: so all these kinds of things are happening. what went into deciding -- and you talked a little bit about that. how to put the right touch on the end as you're going the last -- you know he's going to leave. he tells the president he's going to leave. the president doesn't want him to leave. and you see the relationship there. you've got to take -- you've had all of this in this film. >> yeah, it was crazy trying to figure out that end. we kept trying to reedit it and edit it. >> danny came into my -- i have

so many opinions because i don't have the right answer. >> what's the last thought you want to leave them with? >> that's there hope. that there's hope. that there's hope. we knew we had to end up with there's hope. but it was getting there that was troublesome. you know, we have a -- it's part of the editing process. >> rose: you put together a really impressive group of actors here, too. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: cuba gooding, amazing in this film. >> who added such a lightness to the film. every scene that he's in he lifted a little higher and bricks in a little more light. and elijah, last night, who plays my other son. you know, that kid, every single line i say was ad-libbed by him practically. >> he's hilarious. >> he'd get a laugh on every scene. >> he'd run them by me and i'd go wait a minute, we have p.g.-13 and we have to make sure they that they work.

>> we had to take out the words. >> he's an incredible talent if everything he says is without the script because everything he's said is smart and funny and right on. >> all the time. all the time, yeah. kudos to him for that. >> rose: how did you decide on the end? you just finally said what? >> that we knew that we had to have hope and i think the thing was that it was all in forest's eyes. how are you feeling? what is he feeling? is he -- because the way we originally -- the way he walked down -- first he was walking up and very thankful. i said no, man. you're cranky. you got this. "i know the way." >> rose: that was it. "i know the way." >> the first time we heard forest talk about his process of being able to -- his aging process is like nothing i've ever heard before. you want to share that? >> well, it was a process of taking this experience the

emotional experiences and placing them in my body and the more they placed the more my body starts to get the weight of these experiences. that's how i did the aging process. i didn't do it through -- i mean i had worked once -- i had worked with the body structure, i worked with this one coach for a day i said okay, i'm going take the pain of our son being killed and put it here. and i'm going to take the pain of our son running away here. and my wife being an alcoholic and not being able to control her here. and slowly these things started to change and when that happens even your voice starts to change and you just think of those places inside yourself. by the end each time you're carrying those things. the weight of all those experiences so i would -- if i broke it down i knew what age i

was and what scene i was doing i would be able to just fall into the experience. >> rose: to go to that point of that experience. >> isn't that wonderful? that's what we feel in film. th >> rose: and the great part about both of them is that, you know, often -- and you haven't asked that question because everybody does, what's it like to direct oprah? >> rose: i thought i'd avoid all the obvious questions? (laughter) >> thank you so much! that's what makes you you! but the great part about both of them is that they are -- one would think with all the awards this the two of them having v together and the celebrity factor and everything that they come with this thing and they come and they came to serve me. to serve the characters with dignity and they were both -- i learned a lesson of humility

from both of them. both of them. they were both raw. they were both open. they were both vulnerable. and they both -- you know, even if they -- you know, she would have ultimately caved in, but she knew how to trick me. if i want to do something -- >> what? >> like, for example, i wanted her to do some things, i wanted her to do some things and she wouldn't pull the oprah thing. she -- she started crying. and i was like. >> come on! >> because it meant so much to her and then you have to -- you get because she's vulnerable. >> lee, i'm not going to let you get away with that. i ended up crying to defend her. i thought it was because of the p.g.-13. i thought -- >> no, i was deeply affected by that. >> because you were so vulnerable. >> i was. i so wanted gloria to represent who i had worked on her to be and who i believed her to be for

that era and there were just certain things that i felt that woman would not do she would not f-bomb her husband when he came home after kennedy was shot. fought for that. and she would not -- even though she was flirting warned the neighbors she would not go all the way and i think you wanted to see me rolling around in bed with terence howard. >> i did! (laughter) >>. >> rose: why? >> well, why not? >> rose: why first? >> why? because she was alone, you know what i mean? she's alone, she's vulnerable. it's terence howard. why not? she's drinking. why not? >> she would never be able to come back from that. at the end when she says what she says about you being the kind of man my mama would have been proud of we don't care about her anymore because she could not have sex in bed in her

husband's bed. i said, lee, there's a crucifix above the bed. the bible is next to the bed table. no! >> you were right. >> thank you! my favorite words. my favorite words "you were right." (laughter) my favorite three on earth. "you were were right." (laughter) >> rose: forest, tell me the end -- sum up what you think this -- in terms of what this experience was like for you. >> what the experience was like? >> of this film, this character, this accomplishment of making this movie. >> my experience? not the movie -- >> rose: yes, you. >> there were times when i was working on this movie and i was sitting in a chair and i felt like i was in a field of blue. like just everything was blue. no time, no space, no nothing.

and for me that's a feeling i really have unless it's a depply spiritual experience. so the experience had that for me. there was a couple times i thought what year am i in? what time, what place? >> rose: thank you. it's remarkable performance. i fell in love with her the summer of 2011, wasn't it? >> uh-huh! (laughs) for me, you know, it was a little different because i was trying to build a network at the same time and i literally was -- i would do a scene and then have to go and shoot an interview and do a scene have to shoot an interview. lee would have a joke "where's oprah? where's oprah? where is she?" (laughter) but i'm so -- i was so grateful for the words, you know?

i remember hearing spielberg many years ago accept an award on the oscars an he was saying "everything begins with the words." and, you know, for the script that you wrote, we are so grateful for the words. for the words. >> so grateful for these amazing performances. >> and you brought them to life, lee, thank you. >> rose: soon they'll be saying "we can't get lee daniels, can we get steven spielberg?" (laughter) >> steven! that's not true! (laughter) >> rose: thank you all and congratulations. great to see you. the movie is called lee dance yels' "the butler." it opens on august 16. see you next time.

democracynow.org 08/20/13 08/20/13 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> there was a heads up provided by the british government. this is something we had an indication was likely to occur, but it is not something we requested. and it is something that was by the britishly law enforcement. >> as press freedom and human rights groups criticized britain for using a terrorism