captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> woodruff: president obama called the alleged chemical weapons attack in syria a grave concern and added, "as difficult as the problem is, it will require america's attention." good evening, i'm judy woodruff. >> warner: and i'm margaret warner. on the "newshour" tonight, the united nations announced today one million children have been driven from syria by their country's bloody civil war. we take a closer look at the swelling number of refugees, particularly the young. >> woodruff: separate juries

delivered guilty verdicts today in two high profile military cases. army major nadal hassan was convicted of murder for the deadly shooting spree aimed at unarmed u.s. soldiers at fort hood, texas. >> warner: and staff sergeant robert bales was sentenced to life without parole in the massacre of 16 innocent afghan civilians. we get details of both military court outcomes. >> woodruff: and in a separate military case-- the army private found guilty of giving troves of highly classified information to wikileaks-- now wants to live as a woman, chelsea manning. ray saurez examines the legal and cultural questions connected with this story. >> warner: mark shields and rich lowry analyze the week's news. >> woodruff: and we look back at robert macneil questioning the reverend martin luther king, jr, on the fight for civil rights. on nbc's "meet the press" just three days before the 1963 march on washington. >> all of these barriers must be removed before the negro can

even begin moving up the highway of freedom in all of its dimension. >> woodruff: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. >> warner: president obama expressed heightened concern about the situation in syria in his first extended remarks about the possible use of poison gas by the syrian government. his comments came as the humanitarian crisis there hit what the u.n. called a shameful milestone. and a warning, some viewers may find images in this story disturbing. the president said today that wednesday's alleged chemical attack outside damascus, which killed between 500 to more than a thousand men, women and children, was quote, "a big event of grave concern." >> that starts getting to some core national interests that the united states has, both in terms of us making sure that weapons of mass destruction are not proliferating, as well as needing to protect our allies,

our bases in the region. >> warner: but in an interview with cnn, mr. obama also sounded notes of caution about the u.s. taking immediate military action against the syrian regime. >> if the u.s. goes in and attacks another country without a u.n. mandate and without clear evidence that can be presented, then there are questions in terms of whether international law supports it, do we have the coalition to make it work, and, you know, those are considerations that we have to take into account. >> warner: u.n. inspectors were already on the ground in syria when wednesday's rocket attack occurred, investigating allegations of previous chemical attacks by syrian president bashar al-assad. today syria's key ally, russia, joined an international chorus calling for assad to grant those u.n. inspectors access to

wednesday's site. in south korea, u.n. secretary general ban ki-moon called for a thorough, impartial and prompt investigation and said that those determined responsible would be held accountable. >> any use of chemical weapons anywhere by anybody under any circumstances would violate international law. such a crime against humanity should result in serious consequences for the perpetrator. >> warner: back in the region, twin car bombs exploded outside two mosques in the northern lebanese city of tripoli, near the syria border, killing at least 27 and leaving hundreds more wounded. the syrian conflict has reignited sectarian tensions in lebanon, as well as strained the small country's resources as hundreds of thousands of syrians

seek safety within its borders. with more than 700,000 registered refugees, lebanon is home to the most displaced syrians. but both jordan and turkey have accepted about half a million refugees. and egypt and iraq are each hosting more than 100,000. with the completion of this pontoon bridge over the tigris river, iraq in particular has seen a dramatic influx in recent weeks. the u.n. says the total number of syrian refugees from the more-than-two-year conflict is now approaching two million. today it announced that the number of syrian children who've been forced to flee their country has reached a new milestone. >> last year around this time we had 70,000 syrian refugee children. today we have reached one million and that tells us something about the escalation of this crisis and the problems

>> warner: at the za'atari refugee camp in jordan-- home to 130,000 displaced syrians-- some of those children said they just want to go home. >> ( translated ): all i wish is that syria could become peaceful again. that's all i want, for the trouble to stop. this time next year i hope everything goes back to normal, to the way it used to be. >> ( translated ): i want to return to syria to live in peace and to go back to school. i want to be able to play with my old friends again, just like before. i want our country to be safe, safe enough to live in and for it to be prosperous again. >> warner: it is believed another two million children have been displaced inside syria. for more on the impact of the syria conflict on the millions forced to flee-- particularly the children-- i'm joined by unicef spokesperson sarah crowe. she's been to the syrian refugee camps, as well as other unicef supported camps around the world. sarah crowe, thank you for joining us. one million kids, syrian kids

now refugees. put that in context for us. what percentage of syrian children have been driven from their holmes? >> well, it's a staggering number. just imagine a city like boston or washington or los angeles without children, without its childhood population. not only is this robbing syria of a new generation. it's also becoming a burden, as you heard in those pieces earlier, for the neighboring countries. it's engulf ago this crisis is now engulfing an entire region. this is not just about numbers. each one of those children represent a child with with dreams, a child who had an education, and is now facing a life, for at least the short term, short-term existence, without schooling. what we have in many of the refugee areas and jordan, for instance, in the za'atari camp, and in the host communities, is we're providing temporary

schooling. but it's not enough. there are thousands of other children who are just simply falling between the cracks, and many of the older children, it's much harder for them. all the boys are full of resentment and anger and aggressive. they want to go back and fight in many cases or, indeed, they're being recruited. and many of the teenaged girls face early marriage as their families are now facing a life in poverty. they're now in a refugee camp. that's no life for any child. and they've seen things that no child should ever have to witness. >> warner: is there something particular or unusual-- i mean, war is always dreadful for children. is there something unusual about the impact the syria conflict has had on syrian children? a comparison of their life before, for example. >> what struck me and what you heard earlier in the clip that you played is that they're extremely articulate children and also very well educated.

syria had about 85% of its primary school children were in school, and now, if you look at one town like aleppo in syria, only 6% of those children are now in school. so this gives you-- this gives you a comparative feeling of what it was like then and what it is like now, and the longer this conflict goes on, the greater the chance of a lost generation. these children are losing out in so many levels, so many areas. what we're able to do is give basic needs are met, immunization campaigns, vaccinations, water and sanitation is trucked into these camps. and, of course, the host communities themselves need to be supported, and those children in those host communities are also vulnerable. so we need to look at immunizing those children which we cotogether with the host governments and the host

communities. >> warner: what impact does this have over long term? i mean, some of these children-- i've been to some of these camps. i've been there a couple of years already. what is the impact on their health, not just physical but also psychological that will linger during these formative years? >> well, the greatest wounds, of course, are the ones that you can't see, and it scars them in many ways for life. when they talk about what they've seen and when they draw pictures of what they've seen, you can see there's a sense of bleakness in their eyes, in the way they express it. one of our child protection officers in jordan said to me that it's like they have lost their sense of humanity, their sense-- it's as if they have to have their souls sewn back on again, and this is something that is invisible, and the scars are invisible but will and could

remain with them for a lifetime, especially if this goes on for too long. so it's a global shame. we're all-- we all should hang our heads in shame that this crisis has gone on now, now into its third year, and the biggest humanitarian crisis we've had to deal with. >> warner: what do these children do all day in the camps? i mean, having seen some of them, some of these mothers have nine and 10 children, and there's no man there. what do the children do all day? >> well, exactly. you're seeing a disproportionate number of children and mothers and women in the camps, particularly, but also in host communities. where there's good help and where there's help to be found, we're very actively pursuing and we have temporary schooling and, indeed, now, much more structured schooling in the established camps, like in za'atari camp in jordan.

and that-- that gives them a real sense of routine, a sense of something familiar that they know, that they understand. they go to these schools. some of the schools are intense, but many are now in prefab classrooms, where they're able to get shelter from the very arid, hot, dry, summer, and, indeed, in the winter, which we're now approaching, a very cool, cold winter. at night time it gets bitterly cold in that area. so they're getting regular-- for the lucky ones-- they are getting regular schooling. and the good news is when you find teachers in the community, particularly in jordan, that has a much more similar curriculum, and, of course, amongst the refugee population, there are also syrian teachers. so there are double shiftes, shifts in the the morning and shifts in the afternoon so that's what happens when it works well. >> warner: now let me ask you this: in june the u.n.

announced that it was a $3 billion shortfall in money for syria between what had been pledged by various countries-- the u.s., the europeans -- and what the u.n. felt it would need until the end of the year. are you seeing that shortfall translateold ground? in other words, is there a limit to what sort of food and medicine and schooling you can provide? >> there's absolutely a limit. this is bigger than any one aid organization can cope with, any one government. this is a crisis for an entire region. our funding-- our funding needs have only been 40% met, so this is-- this is another-- another shame. what it needed, of course, is a political solution. we can't keep-- we can't keep up with the demands if the flow from syria continues. unicef is inside syria, and as you said earlier, we have-- we're dealing with two 2 million

children inside syria who are displaced. so you've got a crisis inside and a crisis outside, and this is-- this is now becoming-- this is now going beyond-- beyond the bounds of any one agency. >> warner: wells, sarah crowe of unicef, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: still to come on the "newshour": the fort hood shooter is found guilty of murder; a u.s. staff sergeant gets life in prison for killing afghan civilians; the questions raised by chelsea manning; shields and lowry on the week's news and robert macneil with martin luther king, jr. in 1963. but first, the other news of the day. here's kwame holman. >> holman: supporters of ousted president mohammed morsi held scattered rallies in egypt today but turnout was low. protesters chanted against the takeover by the military as they marched through cairo, but they avoided areas barricaded by the authorities. hundreds of members of morsi's

muslim brotherhood have been arrested, making rallies harder to organize. yesterday, former egyptian president hosni mubarak was released from prison and placed under house arrest. there also were small protests against his release. in india, a 22-year-old female photojournalist was raped by five men while on assignment in mumbai. she was hospitalized in stable condition after last evening's attack. her male colleague also was beaten. a suspect has been arrested. he reportedly identified four others. hundreds of people, including many fellow journalists, held a silent protest in mumbai today. some carried signs decrying violence against women in india. >> the journalists have gathered together. we are protesting about it to basically ensure that there is safety and security for the residents, as well as the citizens and the journalist professionals of this city. >> holman: earlier this year, the indian government adopted a sweeping law to protect women from sexual violence. it was triggered by the gang rape and death of a female

student in new delhi in december. sales of new homes in the u.s. plunged in july as mortgage rates moved higher. the commerce department reported sales dropped 13.4% last month-- the slowest pace in nine months. stocks on wall street stumbled in early trading on the housing news but recovered late in the day. the dow jones industrial average gained more than 46 points to close at 15,010. the nasdaq rose 19 points to close above 3,657. for the week, the dow lost half a percent. the nasdaq rose 1.5% the c.e.o. of microsoft-- steve

ballmer-- announced today he'll retire within the next year. ballmer took the helm at microsoft 13 years ago, after founder bill gates stepped down. during ballmer's tenure microsoft's stock price fell nearly 40%, and the company struggled to keep pace with competitors apple and google. microsoft did not name a successor but a search committee is in the works. those are some of the day's a new baby panda gave birth to a cub this evening. the zoo has been on a 24-hour watch for her to go into labor since august 7. the pnda had another cub last year, but it died from a liver problem a few days after it was born. >> woodruff: we turn to two trials of army soldiers accused of killing rampages; one on u.s.

>> woodruff: now to the conviction of private manning and gender issues related to that case and more broadly. ray suarez has the story. >> suarez: just days after bradley manning was handed 35 years in prison over the largest leak of classified information in u.s. history, the army private is bringing another issue to the fore. the soldier, who long struggled with gender identity, announced on thursday the preference to live as a woman named chelsea. in a statement read on nbc's the "today" show, manning said: >> as i transition into this next phase of my life, i want everyone to know the real me. i am chelsea manning. i am a female. given the way that i feel, and have felt since childhood, i want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. >> suarez: the announcement has raised legal questions over whether the army provides that therapy. the soldier will serve time at leavenworth maximum security prison in kansas. the prison has 515 beds and no female prisoners. manning's attorney says he plans to fight for his client once again. >> a fort leavenworth spokesperson said, "we don't have certain treatment, that's

not what we give." i'm going to change that. >> suarez: manning's request has put a spotlight on an issue that's often overlooked and how the military handles it. estimates vary but one analysis from the williams institute at u.c.l.a. suggested as many as 700,000 americans may be transgender, though many fewer may have taken hormones or surgery. currently, most insurance plans will not cover treatments or surgeries involved with sex changes. there was an earlier gender reassignment involving a veteran. that first came to public attention after world war ii. christine jorgensen-- an american soldier who served as a man, returned from military service and became christine. in manning's case, the focus now lies on how the army will proceed with the soldier's request and what that means for the private's future in prison. we invited a representative of the u.s. army to appear, but none was available to appear tonight. the army said in statements it

does not provide hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgery. inmates, the army said, are treated equally regardless of race, rank, ethnicity or sexual orientation. as for his request for a name change, the army said it won't be changed unless prisoner manning completes the legal process to do so. however, some prisoners have taken this action and the u.s. disciplinary barracks can provide guidance. for a perspective from the transgender community, we turn to allyson robinson, a former executive director of outserve/sldn, one of the largest l.g.b.t. advocacy organization for military members and their families in the country. she now works as a private consultant on personnel issues for u.s. military and corporate clients. she is herself trans-gender. she herself is transgender, and i mentioned christine jorgenson, allyson robinson, to remind us this isn't a brand new issue but probably not one the army has to deal with often, is it? >> that's very true, although

our estimates would indicate there are anywhere from six to perhaps 10,000 transgender people serving in the military today. we have strong statistical evidence that shows that transjerked people are twice as likely as their fellow citizens to join the military, to have served in the military. i'm just one example of thousands of transgender veterans. and people who are actively serving today. >> suarez: private manning is unusual that he's trying to make this transition while still under army supervision. and even more complicated as a prisoner. what are the army's obligations to private manning? >> well, it's worth considering what the army's obligations are under the u.s. constitution. the eighth amendment of the constitution protects citizens against cruel and unusual punishment. and there is a growing body of legal precedent that shows that

transgender people who are incarcerated should be provided with these medically necessary procedures in cases where they're not, it is considered a violation of those rights. >> suarez: the army, in its policy statement that it released to us this afternoon, made it clear that it was willing to entertain a name change. private manning himself, when addressing his supporters, asked that they send him letters under his old name, as he would consider tbecause he's not sure it necessarily would be delivered to him? why is that an important issue? >> well, it highlights just how unprepared the u.s. army and the u.s. military in general is to deal with the reality that transgender people have served, are serving, and will continue to serve. it's a very frightening thing for many of us to consider the experience that awaits private

manning because they are so woefully unprepared. but it is tjust highlights the way in which the u.s. military is so far behind the rest of our society. they have regulations that are based upon an obsolete, outdated understanding of transgender people, one that's over 60 years old. and the rest of the country has moved on. >> suarez: they've made it clear that they offer to all service men the same level of care, of availability of psychologist, of medical care that they need. i guess this might hinge on whether or not something like gender reassignment would be considered medically necessary as a legal question. >> uh-huh. i think you're right. what we do know is that it is already considered medically necessary by the voices that typically really matter in our society, the american medical association, the american psychiatric association, and the

american psychological association all hold to that position. and more and more often, insurance companies are as well. as you mentioned earlier, that is still frequently not the case. but on the civilian side, more and more are covering these life-saving procedures. >> suarez: let's move away from the army for a minute. are there differences when you go from state to state in regulation, both recognizing the changes, all thering birth certificates so you can get documents like passports, are transjeopardy people facing a patchwork quilt of laws across the country? >> well, they absolutely are, and probably the worst of that is the fact that in some states, a very small number of states, it is illegal to discriminate again someone on the basis of their gender identity, transgender identification. in the vast majority, it is perfectly legal, so this, you know, highlights the experience

that transgender people have in this country every day, not just in trying to get appropriate identity documents, so that they can be addressed in appropriate ways, but simply trying to work, to rent an apartment, to enjoy a public space like a park. these experiences can be very, very challenging. >> suarez: and does it take a long time-- once you finally come to the conviction that you're going to make this change, both getting the rest of the world to accept it and accepting it yourself, is private manning in for perhaps more than he even realizes at this early stage of the game? >> well, it is certainly a process, as so many things in life are. if we know one thing from the transgender people who are currently serving, i'm in contact with one group that counts almost 200 people in

uniform today who identify as transgender, it is a process that they have-- that many of them have begun, that many of them would very much like to complete if they could do so without putting their years at risk. and increasingly, they are coming out to their chains of command, to their military peers, and they're being send because they do their jobs well. >> suarez: did don't ask, don't tell and that change make coming out in that way less complicated? >> unfortunately, it did not. the repeal of don't ask, don't tell did not change things for transgender people in the military. what it has done, though, i think, is it has taught military leaders that they don't need to be afraid of these issues. the implementation of don't ask, don't tell's repeal has gone very, very well, and today, the gay and lesbian people are accepted. their families are welcome in the unit where's they serve.

this is not so for transgender people in any way. but nevertheless, it could be. our allies, great britain, australia, israel, some of the strongest militaries inlet world, allow transjeopardy people to serve openly and have experienced no ill effects from that. >> suarez: allyson robinson, thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: we turn to two army staff sergeant robert bales was sentenced to life in prison without parole today for murdering 16 civilians in a solo night-time rampage in afghanistan last march. most of his victims were women and children. today's sentence was the toughest the six-member military jury could impose. the 40-year-old staff sergeant pleaded guilty in june, which spared him the death penalty.

adam ashton has been covering this trial for "the news tribune" in tacoma, washington. adam ashton, welcome. what was this jury weighing in trying to decide what sentence to impose? first of all, what were their options? >> they only had two options. murder has a mandatory minimum life sentence under uniform code of military justice, so bales only had an option today of life with parole or life without parole. in the morning we had closing arguments, and the prosecution hit him very hard, saying he was ruthless and cold-blooded and had no remorse. they showed graphic pictures of the victims, especially children, and they played a video showing robert bales leaving the second village he attacked and walking slowly through the fields while they played that video the prosecutor said these are not the movementes of someone who didn't know what he was doing. he was clear eye and wanted to

murder afghans that night and that he had no remorse for it when he came back to his base and spoke to soldiers about the massacre. that was followed by defense arguments that paint robert bales remorseful for the killings. they said he took responsible for it, and they pointed to an audience full of soldiers and family and friends who have stood by robert bales and they said this was a person who was a good soldier and a good person before his fourth deployment and he snapped under the pressure of the wars. >> warner: now the prosecution took the unusual step-- it happens rarely in these cases-- of actually flying in afghan civilians who were either victims but survived or close witnesses. what sort of portrait did they paint of what happened that night? >> that was really remarkable to see afghan villagers in an american military courtroom describing the attack that night. they painted a horrible scene describing sergeant bales as entering their homes and corralling women and children i a room and shooting women and

children in that room. they described themselves as devastated by the loss of their families. they were able to speak pretty candidly about their feelings today in court. they said-- after the hearing, rather, they said they were disappointed he did not get the death penalty. >> warner: what portrait did the defense try to put forward? what kind of testimony, including from bales himself, did they paint to try to change that or amend that portrait? >> so bales gave his first apology in court yesterday. he spoke for about 40 minutes, and to me, he seemed very sincere, that he lost control of himself as he tried to cope with anger that he had been experiencing since his second iraq tour. he never saut consistent help for that anger and he just snapped. he couldn't explain the killings. he said he was remorseful for them and couldn't apologize enough. that picture of complemented by testimony from his brother and can childhood friend who cast

him as a social person growing up who took care of other people, including a disabled child. then three verdicts testified and-- sold gers testified and said they thought highly of bales. they said bales performed well in combat and was a good soldier to have in their unit. >> warner: did they offer any testimony that he had really suffered posttraumatic stress disorder or some kind of real psychological problem as a result of-- i think this was his fourth combat deployment? >> in the press we were absolutely expecting that to come up but it did not come up in court this week. the defense chose not to pursue a mental health defense. the army had a number of doctors ready to testify that would have countered any diagnosis the defense (ed about at all times brain injuries or p.t.s.d., so the defense chose to let bales speak for himself. certainly the behavior bales described would suggest p.t.s.d. he said he was furls sitting in

traffic and was ashamed to ask for help. >> warner: wash in tacoma, washington, thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> woodruff: and to the analysis of shields and lowry. syndicated columnist mark shields and national review editor rich lowry. he also is a contributor to fox news david brooks is off today. welcome, gentlemen. so a lot of news to talk about, but let's start with syria. mark, this terrible chemical weapons attack, very strongly linked in damascus to the assad regime. how much pressure does this put on the obama administration to do something? >> well, i think the pressure, first of all, there are different kinds of pressure. there's very little political pressure in this country. >> woodruff: from the american people. >> from the american people. there is very little appetite. call it the vietnam syndrome,

the iraqi sin dodger the afghanistan syndrome-- there is no appetite, no enthusiasm for americans to go to war again in the middle east to intervene. there really isn't. surprisingly, the reaction to the tragedy, the human tragedy of 100,000 people being killed and 1 million people being homeless. political pressure, yes. there is some political pressure, absent the public pressure, i don't think it really pushes the president. the president has some self-induced pressure in the sense he-- his own statements on this have been quite strong in the past. i mean, assad has to go was one of his statements. if they use these weapons, it would be a red line they cross, and we certainly can't tolerate that. so, i mean, in that sense, i think there is a pressure and undoubtedly a personal pressure because heenes what's going on gloold in the administration we read there is vigorous debate going on inside the administration. >> i agree with what mark said, and i think the latter influence

is going to be ultimately decisive along with the international pressure just because if this event goes without any reaction on the part of the united states, it will be a further erosion of taby sin the end of world war i on the use of these weapons and it would harm his credibility because the president has been out there and strongly worded wed line so it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of punitive, basically symbolic strike against government buildings or airfields or something of that nature with standoff airpower or cruise missiles. >> woodruff: that's the question, what are the options for the administration? what can they co? they've been looking at this for a long time, mark. >> intelligence, you'dy, says it would require 60,000 troops on the ground to eliminate the 12 depots where chemical weapons are stored, that the-- the syrians. i don't see that-- i don't see

that happening. and i think if there is military action-- judy, there is no more serious decision that any nation makes than going to war. and we've done it twice withinw no debate in the past 11 years in this country, really no serious public debate. and i think this is the time, if we're going to do this, it is time for a full debate, not simply in the white house or in the administration, but in the country. i think the congress has a responsibility. i think the press has a responsibility. >> woodruff: even if it's a standoff action that rism was just describing? >> we've found in the past, generally speaking these don't turn out well. they involve eventually the spilling of more american blood, and spending more more than treasure, and further erosion of the united states position in the world. >> woodruff: why coyou think that's more of a possibility? >> i just think-- i analogize it a little bit to bill clinton and the balkans. public sentiment when bosnia war was burning so hot, there was

zero domestic political pressure, really, but just the embarrassment when you're the president of the united states and the leader of the free world, when you're appearing completely feckless and you're saying things constantly and drawing red lines and nothing is happening on the ground and everyone ignoring you, the internal logic of that forces your hand eventually. i don't think we'll do anything on the scale ultimately of what clinton did in bosnia. i think if we do something, it's going to be largely symbolic and a huge limiting factor here is just nature of the opposition. if you did more and really undermind the government, then you're indirectly helping an opposition that has currently constitute we don't have a lot of confidence in on to say the least. >> woodruff: we know the chairman of the joint chiefs was quoted in a letter to congress the administration can't really support one of the opposition groups because they can't be guaranteed they'll be with the u.s. afterwards. >> no, i mean, if you look at it, i mean, absent the human

tragedy, you can't really look at it absent the human tragedy-- at least i hope not-- this is the battle of stalingrad. this is hitler against stalin in the sense of-- you've got al qaeda on one side, and even-- just equally loathsome people on the other side. i think it's pretty tough to cheer and say, "boy, there's no question where virtue lies." >> woodruff: but you saw pictures this week of the children. rich, the interview margaret did a few minutes ago with the woman from unicef, talking about the number of children suffering. >> it's horrifying. it's absolutely horrifying. the problem is, this is not even a case where the enemy of my enemy is my friend. it's the enemy of my enemy is my other enemy, and unless we can change the nature of the opposition-- and i think we should have as many intelligence assets down there on the ground as we can, learning about them and hopefully maximally influencing them to try to go

in-- you know, in a direction that makes them more trustworthy-- we're really kind of stuck. what i just outlined is, obviously, easier said than done. >> woodruff: let's bring it back here home. we know the president went on a road trip yesterday visiting several states in the northeast talking about ways to bring down the high cost of college. he's proposing changing, mark, the way schools are rated that have to do with how many low-income students a college brings in and how much they help them poa to pay for the of education. is this a set of proposals that will get traction and go somewhere? >> no, i don't think it is, judy. it's a real problem. let's be frank. since 2001 in this country, the cost of the four movie year college, public university, room and board, tuition, has gone up 73%, 73% in 10 years, before 2001, 2011. at the same time, the median household income in this country has dropped by $throb of 3400.

so i mean, is it a problem? is the cost of college a problem? we have to be competitive with an educated workforce. yes, it is, but i think the rating of columns-- for example, just one little item. one of the factors is going to be graduation rates, which i think would encourage colleges to accept children who are going to do better, come from more resources and likely to finish, not take chances on kids who don't come from privileged backgrounds or better off backgrounds. but secondly, judy, is income afterwards. you're telling me a college that graduates the best teachers in the world or the best social workers in the world is going to be penalized in this equation because their people don't earn the same amount as a hedge fund manager. i think it's tricky. i don't see it-- >> woodruff: to be fair, the president is talkin talking abor sorts of post-secondary education, technical education. >> i think it's a very important issue to take on. it's a major problem.

we've had inflation at an extraordinary rate in tuition. and my fear about the-- grading the schools is a little bit the opposite of marks. i think if you say graduation rates will be key in your grade. they'll say if you want us to graduate more kids, they'll pass them through. and very temperature resto take on i think the amount of student aid we have funneled directly into these colleges and universities and give them every incentive tow capture that money and progressively capture more of it by raising their tuition. i think you have it fundamentally rethink how all of this works. >> woodruff: you're saying it could make this worst, the cost of college? >> i think if you're not taking that problem on, you're probably not dealing with it. and there's so much of college i think needs to be rethought. and i give the president credit for mentioning some of these ideas, some of these innovations, like online learning and graduating kids quicker. but if you look at the research,

it shows students study less than they used to and teachers teach less than they used to at college, and these four-year institutions are only graduate i think about a third students in four years. >> woodruff: gosh, i thought all students-- >> these kids don't. not the way we did, judy. in the earlier generations. the other problem the president did address is $1.2 trillion cumulative in student get at the time and the average graduate carrying a burden of $26,000 upon graduation they owe. that is a serious, serious problem. economically and vocationally as to what that young graduate can do. >> woodruff: all right, something-- it's a big topic and we've got just a few minutes but i want to get the take from the two of you. the republican party, rich, a lot of discussion the last few weeks about whether there's a serious split in the party. on the one hand you have the governor of new jersey, chris christie, very much in the traditional, mainstream part of the party. then you've got the senator from

texas, ted cruz. you've got senator rand paul from kentucky on one end, and then you've got lamar alexander from tennessee-- there just seems to be a lot more conversation than usual about whether the party has a big enough tonight hold all these different views. how do you see it? >> i see it basically as a tension that goes back 50 years in the republican party, taft-eisenhower, reagan-ford, and on and on. if you boil it down, you have chris christie saying we need power, which to-- to effect our ideals and principles which, yes, you obviously do. and we have rand paul saying we need principles which, yes, of course you do. i think the debate tend to be simplified. it's not either/or. it's both. >> woodruff: you're saying what? >> you obviously needs principles because without them you're completely rudderless and passionless as a party but you also need to persuade people that your ideas are correct such

that you win elections that you can effect your principles. if you're saying we're just going to have principles, nothing's going to happen. if you say we're just going to seek power without any ideals or principles behind that, you're not going to be very convincing to people and probably not gain power. >> woodruff: how do you see it? >> when you see yourself as the national governing parties the republicans did and you lose five of the six national elections in the popular vote, they go into this introspection, and they're divide into two campes, uneven camps. there are the skins who say the reason we lost is because we didn't stick to our core principles. people saw we didn't really believe what we said. we have to go back to them. and the shirts on the other hand-- including chris christie in this says-- say no, no, the reason we lost is we didn't move into the middle more. we weren't practical. people didn't look at us and say, "those are problem solvers." that's the camp. the democrats did the same thing when they were out of power-- >> woodruff: you're saying this is just one of those

things. >> i think it is. chris christie, whatever else one thinks of him is the only political figure in the country who gets favorable ratings from democratic voteres, republican voters, and independent voters. >> but the skins will say we nominated two shirts in a row. ( laughter ) look where that knot us. >> and for me to think of mitt romney as a middle roader is kind of a reach after watcng that campaign when you write off 47% of the people. >> woodruff: it's not a reach to have the two of you on the program, mark. i was reaching. ( laughter ) mark shields, rich lowry, thank you both. we appreciate it. >> woodruff: and we turn to a second court martial. a military jury today unanimously convicted army psychiatrist major nidal hasan of premeditated murder for his shooting spree against

unarmed soldiers in fort hood, texas. the 42-year-old killed 13 people and wounded more than 30 others in the 2009 attack. he could now face the death penalty. karen brooks has been covering the court martial for reuters. exers joins us now. thank you for being with us. was this outcome ever in doubt given the overwhelming evidence against major hasan? >> no really. it wasn't. he didn't put up any defense at all. he didn't dispute the facts and started the trial by saying the evidence would clearly show he was a shooter. up or down wasn't really that much of a question, if any. >> woodruff: so what was the duty of the jury as it went off to deliberate for several hours? >> well, the duty of the jury-- the jury had 45 counts total to consider. so that's a lengthy list. you're also talking about high-ranking military officials. they're very precise. they want to be very efficient but they want to get it right.

what they had to do was go through each count, 13 premeditated murder, 32 attempted premeditated murder and whatever lesser charges they had the option of, and decide on each one and be very meticulous about it. the big question was whether they were going to find the premeditated murder charges unanimously, and they did. the ran the unanimous verdict was so interesting or important for prosecutors is that what kicked in the possibility of the death penalty. without a unanimous verdict on at least one of the premeditated murders they wouldn't be able to push for the death penalty but they did get that. >> woodruff: tell us about the reaction, what you know of the reaction in the courtroom on the part of the major and others there? i know there were victims who survived there, and there were family members of victims there. >> there was-- the judge was very careful about making surer maintained decorum, stayed calm and dignified during the proceedings. hasan, just like he did the whole time, showed very little

emotion. he looked at the jury foreman, the president of the jury panel, while she was reading the verdict, but then he'd look back down at his desk, which is what he's typically been doing the whole time. the media are not allowed to hang around with the family members or the witnesses or victims before and after testimony, but the reaction inside the kroosms a very mild. we did see one person who seemed to be a family member kind of touch each other on the shoulder, give a little nod in approval. but other than that, it was pretty emotionless in there. >> woodruff: the testimony-- i've been reading about it the last few days-- has been prey tough. i'm sure it wasn't easy for these victims to live through this experience again. >> it was very emotional for a lot of them. in fact, many of them broke into tears on the witness stand. a lot of them maintained composure, but got very emotional, even before the doors closed on them, on the way out of the courtroom. it was-- it was hard for a lot of people to keep their emotions

in check. it was-- the testimony was very graphic and very emotional. >> woodruff: and finally, karen brooks, the decision on the death penalty, tell us where-- who makes that decision and when will we know? >> the sentencing phase starts monday with the prosecution's witnesses. they have 19 witnesses. several of them are survivors. they expect to go a day or two. and then hasan will have an opportunity to make his statement if he chooses to do so on his sentencing. and then the court-martial panel, which we 99 civilian trials as the jury, will decide the punishment in order for it to be a death penalty, it has to be unanimous. if they rush a death penalty, the judge has to accept it, but it eventually has to be signed off by the commander of fort hood and to be carried out it has to be signed off by the president. >> woodruff: and we understand he will continue to represent himself. karen brook with reuters, we

thank you very much. >> thank you. >> warner: 50 years ago this sunday in advance of the upcoming march on washington roy wilkins, the then chairman of the n.a.a.c.p. and martin luther king, jr., president of the southern christian leadership conference appeared on nbc's "meet the press". one of the questioners was the white house correspondent for nbc news, our own robert macneil. >> mr. wilkins, the march on wednesday is the psychological climax of a movement that has been crescendoing for many months. what do you plan after wednesday? >> after wednesday, of course, will be the follow-up on the crescendo, as you say, that has been developing.

it will be immediately addressed to the task of getting legislation through the congress, and then it will proceed, as it must proceed, on all local and state levels, to the elimination step by step, or sweepingly as the case might be, of remaining pockets of discrimination, even while we wait for legislation from the congress. there will be one other aspect, of course, and that has been developing all along. that is to guide and direct and instruct and inspire the negro population to take part-- that is, in a sense of responsibility-- in the newly integrated society, and this is going forward, contrary to a great many critics. >> dr. king, you are quoted in today's "new york times" magazine as saying, the negros demand for equality must be approximated if not totally fulfilled. would you say what you believe approximate equality is?

>> i think equality is the ability of the individual in any society to achieve respect and dignity and all of the other things that any individual in that society would achieve without the barriers of laws standing before him saying, you cannot go here, or you cannot do this, and without customary barriers. i think in order for the negro to approximate equality here all of the barriers of racial segregation must be removed and all of the barriers of discrimination, whether it is in housing conditions, whether it is in employment where the negro confronts a great deal of discrimination, whether it is in the actual legal segregation of the south in schools or the de facto segregation in the northern schools.

all of these barriers must be removed before the negro can even begin moving up the highway of freedom in all of its dimensions. >> woodruff: nbc news will rebroadcast that entire episode of "meet the press" this sunday. >> warner: again, the major developments of the day: president obama said allegations of a chemical attack in syria are of grave concern. the mayor of san diego announced he will resign august 30. pee reached a settlement with the city council after allegations of unwanted advances towards at least 17 women. >> woodruff: if you can't get to the museum soon, the museum may come to you. >> holman: imagine being able to see michelangelo's david up close just by slipping on some goggles. how will virtual reality technology transform our culture? economics correspondent paul solman takes a closer look on making sense. all that and more is on our website newshour.pbs.org. margaret?

>> woodruff: and again to our honor roll of american service personnel killed in the afghanistan conflict. we add them as their deaths are made official and photographs become available. here, in silence, are seven more.

>> warner: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. but before we go, a reminder: the news doesn't stop on friday, and soon, neither will the "newshour." starting in september, join our own hari sreenivasan every saturday and sunday for a 30-minute look at the latest news from around the nation and the world. the all-new "pbs newshour weekend" premieres on saturday, september 7. for more information, visit pbs.org. i'm margaret warner. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. "washington week" can be seen later this evening on most pbs stations. we'll see you online and again here monday evening. have a nice weekend. thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

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>> rose: welcome to our summer series where we bring you some of our favorite programs. tonight we take a look back at golf history with three legends, jack nicklaus, arnold palmer and gary player. >> the atmosphere that the gallery -- it's all -- it all builds up and you just have to understand it, enjoy it. i used to -- charlie, many times i'd come down near the end of a tournament and i'd get to the 14th or 15th hole and i'd be maybe ahead or even or something and i'd just stop and i'd go (sighs) take a couple of big breaths and look around and i see the people and i say "man, is this not fun?" >> rose: (la)