and i, that's why i was looking for somebody who i could, when they say trust me, i really could. >> rose: the medal of freedom recipients next. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following: additional funding provided by these funders.

>> from our studios in new york city this is charlie rose. >> rose: where did this urge to be a newspaperman come from? >> well, i don't know the answer to that. my d got me a job when i was 15 as a copy boy on a paper in beverly, massachusetts. and he had to drive me there until i got my licence. and i just loved it. i mean i was just schlepping coffee and, you know, copy paper e stuff like that until the end of the summer. i used to go out and do a column called city locals. which su went into the hardware store, the drugstore and asked the owner what was cooking, you know. well, i got my boat in the water and i painted my this, somebody is sick and stuff like that. >> rose: but you say in here

that you think now you were born to be a newspaperman. >> that that was -- >> well, i can't think of another thing i could do. >> rose: you would ever be happy doing. >> no, i mean i think coy start out with something but you know, i wouldn't be happy at it. >> rose: . >> i loved it. >> rose: most people say this, what bradley has is great instinct. that's what you have in a bundance. what do you think it is about being a good editor that served you well? >> well, i think i was curious. i think i came along at the perfect time. i mean you just can't quibble with my sense of timing. just as katherine graham was interested in expanding the post and spending some money on the news product, the conversation about the posting about such, i mean now it sounds, the post was a nothing no good rotten little paper when i came there which is not true. >> it wasn't the best paper in town though. >> okayment but it was a good paper and it-- some of

it was, it had a wonderful editorial page and a wonderful ed iitier. >> what did you do as soon as you became managing editor. you began to change testimony you began to see people walking out the door as you tried to get the deadwood out of there and bring a whole new group of people. how many foreign correspondents did they have at the "washington post" when you came there, one, maybe? >> i don't know. what, are you drilling me? we had one. >> okay. >> but i decided was that, and with katherine and with some of the new guys we had, that we would get-- try to get the best journalist in the country covering each beat. >> right. >> and we didn't have that. let's put it mildly. and so we went around trying to get it. >> and then you found the broaders. >> found the broader, the harwoods, the johnsons. i mean they were around. you just had to make way for them and determine to get them. >> and convince them to come to work for you there.

>> true. >> first real test was the pentagon papers? yeah. that was-- yeah, we were being-- you know, "the new york times" had-- had got it, it was their story. and they had published it for three days. and we were just sucking air. we didn't have it, and we couldn't, i mean we had to do that, most den grading of all newspaper acts. you are to quote other paper. blah, blah, blah. it wasn't just i want to beat "the new york times", i want to beat a. >> no, i want to beat "the new york times", but-- he gave "the new york times" the best 20 years they ever had, period. the pentagon papers put you on the map. we are a national newspaper.

>> we did not yield to the government who asked not to publish it. >> and cay gram stud right behind you. >> unbelievable, you know, she is just-- what was it, explain to me this woman who all of a sudden. >> i'm not sure, i didn't know her that well but the pentagon papers was 17ee. and we had been working together since 1965, so 60 years, i thought that she would do it. and i gave my word. i would have had-to-quit if we hadn't published it. and lot of people quit. because we, you know i wanted to be considered in the same breath as "the new york times". that was-- i "the new york

times" and the post. and that helped it was a big step on the way. >> rose: sallie quinn. >> lights up my life. >> rose: what happened, i mean you were-- had been divorced twice, ant anxious to get married. >> nope, she was a looker and she was in the newsroom. what difference did they make in your life. >> i had a very good time. >> rose: you found a fello fellow-- soulmate. >> she loved the newspaper business and loved and. >> she really is excited about this life and we have a good time together. >> rose: any great regret, anything that if i could do one thing over.

>> if i was hurt tony bradley i would regret that f i hurt gene bradley i would regret that. but i still maintain very good relationships with them if i-- i don't know it i don't regret very much. jje nais regret-- . >> rose: daniel is her a senior scholar and professor of psychology emeritus at princeton. in 20023 award the nobel prize in economics for his analysis of decision-making uncertainty. he is the only noneconomist to have won that award. stefen pinker calls him among the most influential economists in history and certainly the most important psychologist alive today. let's give credit where credit should be given to your colleague, the late -- >> tell me about the

friendship first. >> well, we were extraotherly-- extraordinarily lucky. this was one of those collaborations that people dream of and there are very few that lucky. we liked each other so he spent all our days, you know, hours every day. >> rose: doing what. >> talking about everything. the study of intuition and specifically the study of the-- of intuition so what we were doing that was work that counted as work later, but it was all fun, was to invent problems where we knew the solution but intuitively we had another idea. here it is. you have -- -- you are trying to predict, assign probabilities to events. and one of these events is, well, a flood somewhere in

the united states killing at least 1,000 people over the next ten years. >> right. >> that's one event. the other event is an earthquake in california causing a flood in which more than a thousand people will die, drown, sometime within the next ten years. now the second event obviously is less probable than the first. but when you take two groups and you have one group judge the first event, the other group judge the second event, the earthquake event looks much more probable. so that's the kind of, you know, where clearly-- . >> rose: when in fact it isn't. >> of course, it couldn't. but there are two ways of thinking about the world and thinking about anything. there is what i call thinking fast, the intuitive way and thinking slow. >> rose: system one and system two. >> system one and system two. >> and we didn't have those terms. but we had that idea, that

here are problems where we can figure out the solution but our intuitions, fast thinking as i would now call it, goes the other way. so that really was a theme of our research, both of judgement which we studied for many years and decision making to which we move afterwards. >> rose: explain system one and system two. >> well, there are two kinds of thinking, first of all, really. and everybody can recognize them because one is what happens to you when i say two plus two. and you know something comes to your mind. when i say capital of france something comes to your mind. this is associative memory working. it's working automatically. you don't have to decide it. it's something that happens to you. it's just like seeing that somebody's hair is dark. >> rose: is that part of your unconscious mind? >> well, you're not really conscious of how it is happening. you are conscious of the results. are you conscious of your

impressions but you're not aware at all of the working of the associative memory. so that is system one. and system two has two functions. one of them is, you know, to take 24 x 17. now nothing came to mind immediately. you have to work at it laboriously if you are going to do it at all. and another function of system 2 is to supervise the mind and to supervise behavior. and that is work. that function, the function of control, the function of, system two what character sizes system 2 is that it's effortful. and we invest effort and we have a sense of urgency when system two is involved. we have a sense that this is our thing. this is something that i do. it is not something that is happening to me. so that. >> rose: now is it important to know when system one is appropriate and when system two is appropriate?

>> oh, yeah. >> rose: so should a sub title be intuition is way overvalued? >> well, i prefer as a subtitle intuition, the marvels and the flaws. because the marvels which-- i don't speak about much because they are less interesting, the marvels are, you know, how much we do with intuition and how good our intuitions are. you know, so i will give you some examples. you can drive without thinking about it you know, that's the same machinery that does intuition. i can tell you a sentence, one of my favorite experiments is people listen sentences and british upper-class male voice says,. >> rose: a great story. >> it says i have large tattoos all down my back. and it takes about a third of a second and the brain reacts with a surprise. now that's extraordinary. you know, you have to figure

out-- . >> rose: a man with a deep british voice would not have tattoos. >> but you know, the amount of world knowledge that has to be brought to bear on that problem within a third of a second for the brain to recognize that there is an incongruity this is extraordinary. >> rose: what question dow not know the answer to that you most want to understand? >> well, you know, for the last few years have been studying well-being. >> rose: well-being. >> yes. and the question that i would most like to understand, and there seem to be two facets to well-being. one is what is your mood in realtime and the other is how satisfied are you with your life when you think about it. >> rose: so the first one. >> is how happy you are in realtime. what's your mood like. >> rose: exactly. >> are you interested. are you aware. are you vital? you know. do you feel energy. the other one is when you think about your life how satisfied are you with your

life. turns out those two are very different and so what do you want to understand? >> what i would like to know is which of them has the bigger affect on health. so if you ask me, you know, what question i would, you know, i would like to know before i totally quit, that question is-- . >> rose: and what does your intuition tell? with youness i don't know. i don't trust my intuition. >> rose: tell me about giving? what have you learned about it? >> i have learned first of all that it is easier to do and to have an impact than i had previously thought. at whatever level of time or money or skills you have, whatever you wish to give away, that there are ways to do it now partly because of the rise of internet giving and the ability to find something that's really suited to you, partly

because of the rise of nongovernmental groups in the united states and around the world who can actually change things for the better. they know your money is less likely to be wasted today than ever before if are you careful about where you put it. and your time can be spent with others who know how to do what it is you are supposed to do. i have learned that you can give even if you are's in a profit making venture if you change the way you make money in a way that deals with a big crisis like climate change and you reduce your greenhouse-gas emissions so you find a new way to make money. i write about that extensively. and i also have learned that in the end i think the reason most people do it is it makes them happier. >> rose: when you look at it, did you have a model that you think is of the future. because there's so many new, rich people with lots of money. >> yes.

>> rose: a new generation of philanthropists. >> i think the reason there have been so many-- some of of an increase in this activity is a significant number of the wealthy, the new really, really wealthy do want to give their money away in their lifetime and really do, are bothered by this growing inequality in our country. and in the world. and they want to do something about it. and a significant number of socially aware middle class and sometimes lower middle class people are now able to give money with real impact because of the internet, either by picking specific things they can actually fund themselves like a business half a world away through-- or by joining together with like-minded people and adding up their money. so what i want to do is to describe kind of coming out of my life now and the work i do with my foundation, why there has been this explosion in activity that we see embodied by people like bill gates or bono or

the work i do around the world. but really it's much more rich and textured than that t involves millions and millions and millions of people. >> rose: have we come to a better understanding of how to make it have a maximum impact? >> absolutely. >> rose: and to assess the impact? >> yes. and i think frankly a lot of these new entrepreneurs involving getting have helped with that. because they're quite tough about wanting their contributions evaluated. and if they're perfectly prepared to admit it is like any other kind of endeavor. we may make a bad investment but if you are you should stop and do something else. they want to be accountable. and i know that i try to be rigorously accountable to my donors. every year i tell them this is what we are doing. here is what we achieved. this didn't work. we stopped. i think that that say big reason for why there's more giving now. >> rose: what is the role of government today in the context of the kinds of problems we are talking about? >> well, the government

still has a huge responsibility for dealing with the global problems of inequality and climate change. and obviously of security and cooperation. within a country a government's economic management, its competence, its honesty, its social programs, its younow educational systems, all of this will have a huge impact. but even in the best of societies there are gaps, particularly in richer countries with a lot of new immigrants and in the very poor countries where there will be by definition limitations on the capacity of government. and civil society these giving groups can step into the breach and make all the difference. >> rose: tell me where you think this country is today and where it ought to be in terms of its public debate. the debate is between globalization and jobs at home, trade versus -- >> well, that is the-- that's the temptation

of the debate. the debate is rooted in the fact that we're in the six year of economic recovery with no increase in median wages. that for $35 years we've only had one period of five years or more where median, the ones in the middle, wages rose and that's when i was president. >> rose: and the middle class today doesn't feel like they have participated. >> that's right. >> rose: in america's prosperity. >> and more working people-- . >> rose: and they fear jobs are going somewhere else. >> more working people going into poverty, more people lost their health insurance, more people have health insurance but not really. one-third of americans now are without health coverage at some point during the year. people are worried about this climate change thing but they don't really-- they want to deal with it if we can figure a way to do it economically. they just think that things are not being organized properly and we're not moving in the right direction at home. so i think that the economics health care, energy, and education are all very, very important. but unlike 1992 when i ran,

i don't think security can ever get completely into the background. >> rose: is that that an argument for vision is more important than experience? that somehow your personal intellect is more important and your vision and comprehension of things is more important than experience? >> partly. that is if you set it up like that. but if you have the right vision, if you understand that we have to restore america's standing in the world, we have to rebuild the middle class dream in america, and we have to reclaim the future for our kids. that is we have to restore our of thes in science, technology, innovation including stem cell research, and we've got to do something about climate change, that's the right vision. i want a president next time who has a good vision and has great programs but understands that even vision and programs don't necessarily change people's lives. and hilary ever since i knew

her has been the best i ever saw at seeing a problem and figure out what to do about it. and that's-- i have nothing bad to say about him or any others. but if you-- . >> rose: but dow, you measure it and you just said you know how to keep score. >> but it depends on what you think the election is about. if you listen to the people who are most strongly for him they say basically we have to throw away all these experienced people because they've been through the worst of the '90s, and they made enough decisions and enough cause that they made a few mistakes. and what we want is somebody who started running for president a year after he became a senator because he's fresh, he's new, never made a mistake and he has massive political skills and we're willing to risk it. and i even when i was a governor and young and thought i was the best politician of the democratic party, i didn't run. >> my own viewpoint which i've expressed directly to president obama and others is that we ought not to be involved in libya.

it appears to me that this was clearly a war of joyce. it came about because in fairness to the president, he was fearful that mo mar qaddafi would skill a lot of civilians in libya. of course a civil war was going on in libya. the qaddafi government was being attacked by so-called rebels. people that we don't know very much about some of which apparently were fighting against the united states in iraq recently. so these rebels are not exactly democracy builders, although some have reputations internationally for trying to work things out. i think you know, we need to define when we have security threats to the united states. libya was not one of them. and even if one would like to go about the world trying to prevent the killing of civilians or other persons by cruel leaders, that is going to be beyond our

foreign policy portfolio, i believe, for some time to come. >> rose: so you think we should do nothing with respect to what is happening in syria? >> i agree that we should not be involved in a war. we should not be involved in trying to get the united nations to pass a resolution which we did in the case of libya, or looking to at rab league or anybody else for that matter. i think that our diplomacy to put pressure upon the prime minister or president mr. assad is very appropriate. from time to time president obama has really thought that perhaps some movement of reform might be under way. hard for that to happen in the middle of a civil war but nevertheless we shall see. but i would say frankly we do not want to have a reputation of the libya experience. there is why i have asked senator kerry our chairman of foreign relations to have a hearing in which will have the 28th of this month. and the administration will

finally justify the institutional basis for going into libya at all. now that very afternoon there may be a mark up that is a vote in foreign relations committee on a resolution or various resolutions dealing with the situation that has gone well beyond the war pober-- powers act and had no declaration of war to begin with. >> you think there should have been a vote in the congress and the war powers act does apply to what happened in libya. you have suggested that the argument by the president that the war powers act does not apply is both legally dubious and unwise. >> well, i think it is legally dubious and unwise. but i would just say first of all if we're going go to war the constitutional situation is that the congress needs to declare war. the administration needs to make a case for why american security is jeopardized. what sort of costs are going to be involved, both human and monetary.

and other considerations as to alliances and how we will go ba approximate about attaining success with the metrics might be of this. now in the past many presidents and this one is not the first, have simply ignore tad that general stricture and somehow hoped for good luck, that the whole thing might be over rapidly. but this is why the war powers act was enacted by the congress awhile back. and it said simply after a certain number of days, when the president has latitude to do these things, he really has to come to a conclusion that enough is enough. the congress has to authorize the continuation of all of this. on this particular case president obama has felt that this is not a war to begin with. it's a humanitarian gesture and even though with have pumped about a half a billion dollars worth of tomahawk missiles into the country plus all sorts of other ux il rather expenditures, it remains a

nonwar. but one which the president would welcome some nerve resolution from the congress which applaud what he's doing and indicates that he ought to be carrying on. >> now after coal minor's daughter. >> uh-huh. >> rose: people said they can't get any better than this. the book was good. the movie was good. you have sissy with her performance. i mean-- and here you now come along,. >> you know, so much was happened. i would is had this book out long before now but i lost my-- and i didn't record for ten years after that. i went back in and started recording again. there is not too many people can say they take almost 20 years out of their career and still, you know, have people turn them away at the door. >> rose: this marriage was amazing. >> yes, it was. >> rose: i mean you wrote

about some of the problem, about the drinking. >> it was a hard love story as far as i'm concerned. >> rose: hard living, hard loving. >> that's right it was a hard love story. i felt real uncomfortable-- i fell like it was my fault that he drank as much as de because i felt that i wasn't making all this money, he wouldn't drink as much as he was drinking because he used to drink on the weekend,. he drank his money up but he couldn't drink mine up because i didn't have any. so but it really worried me. and i really felt guilty for a long time. but i'm kind of getting over that. >> rose: you were there with him when he died. >> oh yeah . i was with him six years. i couldn't work. >> rose: you remember the last home he looked up at you and sort of smiled with his eyes. >> yes, i fed him some watermelon. i said baby i'm going to give you a bite and i'll take a bite and he feenlly quit eating and he said okay. and i thought he could see me but i know cosee the

outprint of me, as i look back. i didn't know how good cosee me. but he took a bite of watermelon and i take a bite. and here come the nurses in. my daughters had been in twice that day. but you know they never come around so i didn't-- pay it much attention. and i thought well maybe they're just coming around today. and so they come in, pull the catheter out, give him the shot, after me feeding him watermelon. and then to have me go outside while the nurses did-- had the nurse outside tell me was dying. now that was a bad deal. i think. because who would pull a catheter out before you give a lasik shot. i'm not auldn't have. >> rose: i don't mean to be-- dwell on the sadness,

life. >> yes. >> rose: you were partners. >> that's right. >> rose: you loved each other. you understood each other, you were in there for the good and the bad. >> that's right. >> rose: who's the greatest of all you've known, the greatest well. >> well, who could ever bea beat-- georgia jones. who could ever. he recorded this song who is going to fill his shoes. every time i see him i jump him. >> rose: you what. >> i jump on to him. i said why did you sing that song, nobody could ever fill your shoes. and i can see other people's shoes been filled but not yours. and he gets mad at me every time i jump him but-- . >> rose: what does he have, where is he the best? >> he has soul. he has exactly what, if you like country music you're going like georgia jones, that's all i can say, yeah. >> rose: what about the young crowd, do you like any of them. >> i like brad paisley, he's

good. and i like martina mcbride. and i love tricia yearwood she's not country but she's a great singer. you know, you kind of have to put an artist into an all around thing. >> rose: put them into a context, what kind of people they are. >> what kind of people they are. sometime these can be a good singer and-- . >> rose: who are we talking about when you talk about that. >> george is pretty bad. >> rose: they all like george, all the guys they do. >> they do. other than patsy who was your sort of idol. >> tammy obviously you liked. >> tammy when she comes town, i loved her singing. we didn't get together a whole lot because she was busy running from one guy to the other. she said she should have had my problems and i should have had hers. so. >> rose: why is that? >> well, her songs were stand by your man. >> right and here mi,

locking him out. >> rose: you're welcome to come back. did you tell about the love affairs you had or not. >> which ones. i -- know hi one. i tell you one about me and conway, all right. we got stopped our buses were snowed in. i'm bashful. and so is conway. and so we found each other's weaknesses and we gouge each other and we brought out the best in each other on that. so conway he was real bashful and this guy come through the line i said now conway if you are's going to work with me you have to sign autographs because i sign autographs. okay. so rock 'n' roll don't sign autographs. soes's sitting there signing autographs. this guy comes down the line and wouldn't go on. he kept saying this is-- he said loretta are you and conway married. well, i didn't say a word. well, tell me dow all live together? this went on for five

minutes. this guy with not shut up. and i said no, we're just shacked up. he flipped his pencil over his head and took off, quit signing autographs, got mad at me. >> rose: de. >> you know what your wife said. >> rose: yes. he called duke. what did he say. >> when i got home-- when i got home he said don't you have any more sense than that? i said didn't that guy have any more. i said he shouldn't have sat there for five minutes and asked a question like that he should have known better. and. >> rose: dew said aren't you smarter then then. >> he thought i withs smarter than that by i thought it was a good way to get conway. >> rose: it is almost impossible to think about college basketball without thinking about dean smith.

he is the all time winningest coach in ncaa history with 879 victory. his 36 year reigns ahead coach at the university of north carolina chapel hill produced some remarkable numbers 97% graduation rate for his player, 27 consecutive 20 win seasons -- 1 final four appearance, two ncaa championships and one michael jordan. and mi very pleased to have dean smith here. i want to talk but in your life and how you came to love this game so much that i love so much. >> you don't miss the coaching. you don't miss being there some of so that you would consider returning? >>. >> no, you know, charlie what happened was that in our area there is so much interest in basketball. and then the coaches ask to do so many things outside of coaching and teaching. and actually those type of things that i wanted to avoid more than-- i loved

going to practice and the games. but still my time never seemed-- i didn't have enough time to do what i liked to do. and thats with a factor in-- i did write a book and now i'm back in the public eye. and i said i'd never write a book until i chose you never say never. you know, bill is doing a great job, our program is established and it's just going keep going under his leadership. >> what was the joy of coaching for you? >> i think really did enjoy teaching, the practices more than anything. and i enjoyed a tough ball game where it's going to be a contest. i hated those games where the players, the fans, everyone thought we should win by 20, and i now that other team was dangerous. but the joy also was the relationships that you have with your guys. >> defense is the most important thing for a team to have. defense trumps offense always? >> well, i think it helps build your unselfish on

offense if you have a team defence. and everybody wants to play offense so you get a team laying hard defensively, well then i think you know that will win games because you're holding other teams and then it transfers on defense transfers to euro fence. so we did start there. and you limit a team to one shots which is part of defense. will you generally win. >> you worry about college basketball today? >> i think it's getting too rough. and of course that's what is nice about the nba trying to change their game. it did kind of come down to the colleges. that we have three officials to watch away from the ball. and you know watch sometimes, guys screening il legally and they don't call it. maybe they don't see it it's unfair. it's like speed limb sit 35 miles an hour. and everyone now is starting to say they're not going

call it. we got to do it. the other team is doing it. so it's a rough game. and it was never meant to be that. i think it is a finesse game. and i don't know, maybe we could go to-- which they won't because then the players wouldn't foul. they wouldn't take a chance because 4,000 you're out that wouldn't be fun. but we have to do something about it. the nba is take the leadership this year. >> but do you have any pause about so many of these young men who are leaving early, and you just have to accept that as a fact of life because the money is so great, they owe so much to their family who have made so many sacrifices and that there is a rising that could injure themselves and the reward could go out the window. >> you said it all there i future in the book, ben, one of our managers, it's so funny. he left in the sophomore year. they form a computer company, on "forbes" magazine, just two years ago. now he's on forbes on the cover.

nobody says a word. tiger woods leaves standford, i think he should, don't you. >> yes. >> all of a sudden it is funny how in basketball your good guise, they say good guys stay, bad guys leave, it's totally wrong, especially to get their degree because that's why they went to college. i can't believe how somebody gets up set at someone who you said it best just then so i shouldn't have to repeat it. >> is the number of victories beyond the bond that you have with all the young men and people who are part of the program and the families of the young men who played for you, all of that which touches your soul and the fact you can influence someone's life and michael gives elegant praise to that. is it the fact that you more than -- scored one more college basketball games. is that the biggest achievement. >> oh, no, in fact the coach i think has a much better percentage. >> what would it be? >> again, the only time winning was so important is

when i was olympic coach in '76. i said we're winning, john thompson, my assistant, bill guthridge, we talked winning but other than that we never said-- i want each team to do well. i don't even think that should count, coaches record. i'm a coach of this team that had won 27 games, all right. i'll buy that one. but don't put them together, becaeach team is special. and that's what is so refreshing. if you had a job where every year this goal was for this team to do very well. and that's all i wanted. you just added a long time. and when you do-- actually i'm one of the few in my profession that can retire on my own terms. there aren't many of us that can do that. >> you get fired or -- >> fired or kicked out. it's amazing how that happens in division one. you are lucky to be coaches, i think. >> that's why so many of these corporate groups, you know, are responsive to, for the lack of a better word, you know, life experience

and motivational talks is in a sense there is some feeling that somehow you understand something about getting the best out of people and the best in the best sense of that. not just the best scoring but getting the best performance that makes a contribution to the goal. >> and there are some coaches just brilliant speakers. i think back t was great. pat riley probably and that's something i don't really enjoy as much but we still try to leave as the basketball coach. you say you get more radical at 60. >> yeah, i think this is something that happens to a lot of women. >> just women. >> no, i'm not trading-- trying to say it is all women or men, but i think there is this cum actual pattern which is that women tend to be more conservative when we're young and get more activist and radical when we

are older and men tend to be more rebellious and ago vis in youth and grow more conservative because they gain power as they grow older by and large. and we lose power. >> how is your radicalism gained at 60, manifest, is it in terms of political views, how you see the culture, how you behave w what. >> all of the above. it's a continuation t isn't as if it is a complete depar ture. >> you got to 60 and all of i a sudden said whooo, i can be free. >> right, but it is some that. now there is no more prescription for you on the pate arcia map because that ends when are you about 50. so it is scary and you become invisible, and this happens to older men too. but i think it happens even more to older women. but it also sets you free. >> no prescription in the sense. >> well, you've played out the female role. there is no more female role, you've raised your children and that's it, you know, so scary as it may be, now

you're free to be who you really are. you know, it's most comfortable in my experience, anyway, to being a little girl of 8, 9 or 10, because then you were very often this clear eyed little an droning news creature climbing trees and kind of free attitude and knew who you were. and then along came the feminine role and kind of messed you until you were 50 or 40 or something. and it's like going back to that clear eyed, you know, feisty an droning news person on now you have your own apartment and you have a little freedom in the world, or at least if you are very lucky dow. >> do you have a sense that the 21st century is a century for women? >> no, i definitely think so and hope so but of course it does depend on what we do every day. it's not automatic. but i think what is happening now in the second half of the women's movement because they have to last a century to be permanenc permanence-- permanent is that we are beginning to understand the connections. we're beginning to understand that you can't

perpetuate racism without controlling reproduction and that means morist discrimination against women. that the biggest indicator of whether a country is violent within itself or will be, and will use military violence against another country is not poverty. is not natural resources, is not degree of democracy or religion. it's violence against females. and when that gets discussed in all those meetings in switzerland, then, that the chiefs of state go --. >> rose: there great intellectual battles going on within feminism? >> i would say there's really healthy fierce discussion about what is effective. >> so what do those conversations, those discussions about? >> well, they're often about okay, should we focus totally on something we already know about and how do you like equal pay or should we at the same time move forward and say wait a

minute, we could have an attributed value to work that is done in the home whether by men or by women, make that tax deductible or-- you know, they're minely i would say tactical arguments. and also arguments based on our personality experience, i think. because we've all come from different places. and that's very healthy. i would say probably we don't have enough of those because we're a little hyperaware of the ridiculous idea that women can't get along so we're maybe a little more reluctant to disagree in public than we should be. >> what is the driving agenda for you in 2013? >> humanity. i don't know how to say it. >> that's pretty good. >> i mean it is so-- and i would say solutions to problems because the great joy of a social justice movement are the a has, that's why as i was saying understanding the connection

between violence against females whether infant side or domestic violence which is huge, it is what normallized other violence both in the street and in the army, is huge. i mean because we've always known about tribal societies that the more polarized agenda roles the more violent the societies and now we have demonstrated about a hundred modern cultures, so this pro foundly affects our foreign policy. >> it should pro friend-- profoundly affect it, ford to address the root of the problem we have to address that which normallized violence. and that also means somethings that we have to understand that politics are also expressed as religion. it's not spirituality, it's politics in the sky. it is making god look like the ruling class and we have to be willing to talk about this. >> what was your awakening

moment? >> gosh, that's hard. i think you know i think in real life little kids have a waik ening moments where they say it's not fair. are you not the boss of me. so i think i had very young. and then i want through all of my teenage years being train toad giggle and laugh and saying how smart are you to know what time it is. and then then i had to come out of that again, you know, and what brought me out of it was realizing now sinister and crazy and wrong it was that one in three american women needed an abortion at some time in her life when it was illegal. and was made to risk her life and enter a criminal underground. so you know that made it very clear to me that the whole problem is trying to control reproduction.

and i just began to see the scope of the problem. >> rose: will we ever get to a post feminist age. >> maybe, yeah, i think so. because there was a feminist age before. where they didn't even have male and female he and she in the language. and then we got so bananas we gave gend tore a table. i swear to you i done know what gender a table is. la. >> it is heartening to know it's not human nature to have this crazy division. >> has there always burned it in you, they said about lincoln, ambition burn like a hot furnace within you. could we say that about you. >> coy say that. i'm not trying to compare myself to lincoln but i can definitely say that.

>> the notion of a people, you -- >> the notion that i can be better for myself, and i can help other people to be better. if i can do it anybody can. and that is whether i'm running a marathon, whether i lost 85 pounds and can get up and run a marathon or whether i can reach a point in my life where i recognize that television is the most powerful tool for communication there is right now. i know lots of people are computeser illiterate but there is nothing like the one on one extension my voice to the voices of people who are listening right now, that energy, that energy, and i for years have been very fortunate to be a part of television. when i finished i decided that i wanted to be involved with more than just doing television. that what i came away from,

this sense of power that something was bigger than myself was that i wanted to not be used by television, even though is done very well by me. and i have been very lucky but you know i'm in the business that pace you, you know. fortunately i get paid for being myself. it's extraordinary. i'm as amazed as anybody else is that that is a possibility. but i no longer, i thought well okay, first of all, you know happens to you, you turn 40, if you have any sense you try not to make the same mistakes that did you when are you 30. and how do i now take this life that i have been given and use it to a greater advantage. how do i now provide information that i think can help other people see themselves, see their lives, see the world in a way that lifts us up, that helps us to create a higher vision for ourselves, how can i do that. and that is what i believe is my calling. i realized in the process of doing that will you get criticized by a lot of people who think just do television because that's all it is. just do television.

but as's not my business, that's not my concern. my life is not about just doing. at some point everybody's is because you're just trying to survive but i think the true benefit of having wealth and having, you know, this much attention is that you can then use it. i shall never forget ten years old watching sydney portier receiving the academy award. and what that did for me. i was sitting on the linoleum floor in milwaukee, mississippi, baby-sitting my half sister and brother. and when i saw that limousine full up first of all and he got out, here is a coloured man gets out of a limousine. and then he won. i hadn't seen lillies of the field, didn't know what that was. but he won. he within. and i thought a coloured man did that. a coloured man did that. that said to me it's possible. it's possible for coloured

man did continuation a coloured woman could do it. maybe coy. >> rose: there was a certain control element about you. >> well, i think, charlie, that that is a misunderstanding that people have. >> rose: i don't think so. >> i think, i just want things to go well, that's all. >> rose: in other words, f i'm interested in the product and i'm interested in the way it's done its he only because i care about the end result, it's to the because there is something in me believes -- >> that i'm the only one that can do it. >> rose: that i know best. >> oh, truly not. and you can ask anybody that works for me, it's truchlt i have the perception, i guess, and i don't know where it comes from. i this the perception i'm in big control frequent but really what i am, i try surround myself with people who know more about things than i do, so i was looking for somebody when they said trust me, i really could. >> rose: but you've gotten pretty far on trusting your own instinct. >> i remember speaking in nashville when i was 22 and leaving to go to baltimore. and one of the last things i said is i don't know what the future holds for me but

i know who holds the future. i do believe that there is an ultimate life force creator, devine intelligence. i call it god but i think it can be called many things. and i believe that the purpose of your humanity is to try to connect yourself to that force, what ever you choose to call it and i think there are many paths to that. and i tried to stay in the field in the god vibe and whatever that is to open myself up to be used, to be used. my prayer for a long, long time has been how i do use myself, how i do use this life, how do i be used to be of service to myself, first of all, and then to people i love, my family, community and how do i let my life, my life force be of service to the rest of the world. >> even though you've made something of it, you consider it a gift of what you have. >> i consider the obedience

the gift. mya says to me all the time that what she-- admires most about me is my obedience to the call. >> what does that mean? >> it means that i'm willing to listen. i'm willing to listen. and be obedient to the calling that is bigger than myself. you know. >> how much of it is-- i mean you have said that this is a great time in my life it is-- and i'm happy it happened to mow and man i'm loving it and i am going to do something with it. how much of the fact that you got here seemingly so sane is because of this self-examination that you do? i mean are you nobody can ever accuse of you being the unexamined life. >> no, they can't. because i'm looking at it even today when ask you me the question, that's really interesting. i think most of it is. i think i can certainly attribute a lot of it to the

fact that i'm constantly looking inside myself and trying to get better. trying to create another vision, and allow my vision to be aligned with the vision of what i call the creator. i don't know any other way to explain it than that. but i think everybody is examining. the problem is a lot of people don't listen what the report is, what the definition of the report is when it comes back. >> the diagnosis. >> not listen together diagnosis. >> when it comes back it says you need to be less jealous or you need to spend more time with your children or you need to take a good long look at yourself. people don't want to hear that. i think that. and i know this is true too, that you know for anybody who achieves, and i find that for anybody who you achieve a certain level of what notoriety and things, people start taking shots at you. i was reading something in the maybe about let the oprah backlash begin because people perceive-- people always have a vision of first all whether they acknowledge that vision or not, they also have a vision

about what they believe is possible for other people. and i never forget that i'm a black woman in america. and the vision for that, for a lot of people is, you know, not as high as mine might be. or certainly not as high as god. >> there is no limit on your vision. >> there is no limit. >> there is no ceiling up there. >> there is no ceiling. life is about trying to find a way to be more of who you are.

captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, sorting this program since 2002. >> and american express. additional funding provided by these funders.

[captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> the whole time i was thinking, like, "god, please don't look in the trunk." like, first of all, i felt like a criminal already, like, ok, i've got stuff in the trunk. but the stuff i had in the trunk were psychology books and some scrabble games. and in my head, i was like, there's no way that they're going to believe that that stuff belongs to