[ cheers ] [ music ] [ cheers ] >> hayoo. >> thank you, thank you. thank you. and welcome to sea world. [ laughter ] i can't understand how we've had great audiences this week. it's been raining like crazy. people must be getting bananas in the head by now. thank you for coming out. this is "the tonight show", the 90 minute show that asks the burning question, "do you think we can get it

[ laughter ] you are good. last night, we had a group that was -- what's the word that i'm looking for? they were -- not hip. >> dumb >> dumb. that's right. [laughter] last night was the kind of group -- they thought thompson park was a place where divorced fathers took their kids on sunday. [ laughter ] what are you going to do, when you have a crowd like that? i should remind you, i'm former united states naval ensign. john w. carson, 450375. during tonight's monologue, the laughing lamp is lit. [ laughter ] they are like, hmm, yes. well, let's go to the news and see if leon spinks has located any six--inch--wide dental floss. [ laughter ] [ applause ] we can't do those jokes anymore. i saw a recent picture of leon

two teeth. there goes half the monologue, right there. [ laughter ] we have a late report from the news room. you know bubbles the hippo? well, zoo parade's marlin perkins just tranquilized bubbles, the hippo. marlin put her to sleep by screening one of his re--runs on her side. [ laughter ] >> oh! >> no, marlin, i'm kidding. "meanwhile, while jim is swimming downstream, i'll be up here". [ laughter ] i don't think they've caught bubbles yet. we have a hippopotamus loose in southern california, among many other things. [ laughter ] you know the guts you must have to spot that thing and call the police? "i've just seen a 4 thousand pound hippopotamus". weird. i've got to refrain about making jokes about the rain. because it's getting to be kind of not funny.

announcements-- [ laughter ] to make on behalf of the network. during the show, there will be no fishing in the studio. [ laughter ] the soup du jour at the commissary today was mud. [ laughter ] don't be surprised if you're on a tour and you see peter marshall from hollywood squares in a rowboat, talking to nine ducks. [ laughter ] i have to admire the ingenuity of the southern california businessmen out here during the rain. for example, cal worthington, who's the hot shot car dealer out here, just made another fortune selling used u--boats. [ laughter ] and some ingenious fresno man went house to house, picked up all the bricks we've had in our toilets and built his own freeway. [ laughter ] [ applause ] you know what -- [ applause ] okay, you're going to be that easy tonight, huh? [ laughter ]

carson art players coming up. did you mention, we've got them? oh yes. let's see what's happening back in washington. the carter family have become very social lately, have you noticed? last sunday, it was on television, lovely program. they had vladimir horowitz, the great pianist playing sunday night. tuesday night at the white house, they had a wonderful dinner, honoring all the governors of the country. it featured light opera, champagne, crepes flambe, and, did you see the picture in the paper? president carter took beverly sills and waltzed right out onto the dance floor. when he danced with miss sills, the president said, "please let me lead. nobody else will." [ laughter ] it was just a little -- [ applause ] and they interviewed miss sills, because she has also danced with former presidents. she danced with gerald ford, and richard nixon. and when they asked her to compare ford and nixon as

[ laughter ] she said that ford was a fine dancer, but he could only dance downhill. and nixon kept saying, "i am not a dancer". [ laughter ] [ applause ] those are the only comments. interesting contrast, you see. there's a coal strike in the country, in it's 86th day. people in the north, east and midwest are freezing, and you see a picture in the paper of carter, at this elegant function, dancing with beverly sills. i hope they don't criticize the president too much for that. after all, you have to remember that nero danced when rome was burning, and jimmy danced when the coal wasn't. [ laughter ] >> oh! >> see -- you know what you're angry at? [ laughter ] you didn't think of it. [ applause ] did you know what john dean

identity of deep throat? yeah, deep throat, if you remember, was the anonymous source that gave all the information to woodward and bernstein, when they were doing the book on watergate. john dean says he knows who deep throat is, but he won't tell. i suppose he's waiting until there's more money in it. [ laughter ] i happen to know, personally, that deep throat has offered to appear on the tom snyder show. but only on one condition. tom has to wear a paper bag on his head, too. [ laugher ] and then -- [ applause ] some interesting news about anthropology, if you're in the mood for that. >> yeah. >> meow. [ laughter ] >> was that a yes, or a meow? it sounded like a cat. uh, mary leakey, of the famous leakey anthropology, has found what might well be man's

in tanzania, africa. three and a half million years old. is that fascinating? some people are a little doubtful that they're three and half million years old, because, of each footprint, you can see florsheim printed. [ laughter ] um, imagine three and a half -- now, the anthropologists aren't entirely sure, but they think the man might have been out on the town, because right next to his footprints are footprints of high--heeled pumps, leaning against a cave. [ laughter ] incidentally, they also found the first evidence of the first wino. a set of knee and elbow prints. [ laughter ] we have -- [ applause ] did you read where norman lear is leaving television? norman lear is probably one of the brightest producers in

television for a while, to concentrate on movies. i found out the reason that lear is leaving. it's because the network refused to put on his latest situation comedy. it's about a two--headed man. one black, one white. the black one is gay and wants to be an astronaut -- [ laughter ] and the -- and the white one is a southern bigot. the network didn't see it, but i think it could have been a smash--a--room. tonight, we have bruce dern with us, robert klein, susan sullivan and dr. carl sagan. they're all here. [ music ]

[ applause ] [ music ] >> recently --

thank you. many people have become as to the safety of food products, and many other substances. science, in its efforts to protect the well--being of the public, continues to publish reports of items censored, that are considered hazardous to our health. many of these tests are performed on laboratory animals, the real, un--sung heroes. for a first hand report, we take you now and bring you an interview with a canadian mouse. [ laughter ] [ applause ] [ music ] mr. mouse. excuse me, mr. mouse? >> uh, yes. >> mr. mouse. [ laughter ] [ applause ] [ cheers ] [ laughter ] >> excuse, me, mr. mouse, i wonder if i could just talk to you for a few minutes? >> if you want to just talk,

if you want me to eat something, get lost. [ laughter ] >> first, let me just say that you're a very large mouse. >> you're a very large person. >> that's true, but for a mouse, you're incredibly large. >> what do you think you'd look like if you had to drink 800 cans of diet cola a day, for six months? >> now, does that create any problems? >> i have a litter box the size of wyoming. [ laughter ] let me tell you, it is not a pretty sight. woe. >> this is to test the effects of saccharine? >> yes, that is true? >> the artificial sweetener. >> this is true. >> what are the results? >> i'm beginning to act a lot like sandy duncan. [ laughter ] >> there seems to be a red patch on your head. >> oh, in here? >> yes. >> well, they're testing new hair dye. >> has there been any adverse reaction? >> well, my tail keeps falling off.

>> i suppose -- i suppose you could get along without any tail. [ laughter ] [ applause ] [ whistling ] >> i think i'll pass on that, if you don't mind. >> there's been a lot of worries about hair dyes. >> yes, there has. >> they suspect the excessive use of dye causes cancer. >> well, they've dyed my hair every day, for six months. >> besides the tail, did it have any other effects? >> yes, i was asked to join gay mice. also, they put something in my food that ruined my taste buds. i can't eat cheese anymore. >> what do you eat? >> i have a strong craving to eat cat, or something like that. [ laughter ] [ applause ] [ cheers ]

[ laughter ] >> have they, uh -- [ laughter ] have they tested many foods on you? >> yes, they did. they tested billy beer on me. >> what do you mean? the new beer that president carter's brother billy endorses? why would they have you test billy beer? >> well, somebody, said it causes teeth. [ laughter ] we don't know about that. excuse me, do you have a light? >> yes, i do. >> thank you. [ laughter ] [ lighting cigarette] >> wait a minute, they're making you test cigarettes, too? [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> how square can you get? does this smell like the marlboro man? [ laughter ] >> wow, you mean to tell me they make you -- >> just a moment. [ laughter ] this is usda choice grass. >> you mean they're forcing you

>> keep it down. you'll blow my cover in here. [ laughter ] i have a beaver down the hall that gets me all this stuff. by the way, what -- ow! [ laughter ] mice shouldn't do that. [ laughter ] i forgot i had no shoes on. [ laughter ] burned my little feet -- my little paws. what the -- [ laughter ] never thought about that. oh, geez. test me for burns, now. what the -- by the way, what the -- also, i can't hear anything in here. what day is this? >> today is thursday, why? >> this is the day i'm suppose to mate. i'm supposed to test a new oral contraceptive. >> you're taking a new birth control pill? >> not me, the girl mouse in the next cage. >> which one? >> right over there, that cage there. [ laughter ] >> wait a minute, this is incredible. you must weigh a thousand times

how could you possibly have sexual relations with her? >> shh. what does she know? they've got her on valium. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> she just goes, uh-huh. she's out of it, anyway. they are so-- i don't have any pockets either, do i? [ laughter ] there also testing monosodium glutamate on me. >> that's the seasoning used in chinese cooking. >> right, they gave it to me before mating. >> and to what effect? >> well, an hour later, i couldn't remember who she was. now they tell me that i might be sterile, from x-rays. >> oh, you know what that means, to be sterile? >> it means never having to say you're sorry. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> i suppose that after this, you'll be going back to the laboratory? >> oh, i hope not. i don't want to go back to canada and be injected with all those disease germs.

the smog, the traffic backups, the dope pushing -- much healthier. besides, i really want to get in to show business. >> oh, you can't be serious. >> like i said, i want to get in show business. >> you can't be serious. >> because i'm a mouse? that's why i can't be serious? >> i mean, show business? >> mickey mouse made it, didn't he? >> that's true. >> he's fifty. he's over the hill now. show business, that's my life. i want to hear laughs. preferably tonight. [ laughter ] i want to sing. i want to dance. porky pig made it didn't he? [ stammering ] see, i can do that. yeah. [ applause ] woody woodpecker, very big. >> yes. >> i can do that. i'm ready for show business. [ whistles ] >> excuse me, sir. i'm sorry for interrupting but i'm going to have to ask you to leave right now. >> oh. [ laughter ] >> is this another test?

this is one test i like. they're trying to figure out if mother's milk is hazardous to health! ah! [ laughter ]

oh my gosh. he's so cute. how do you know him? c'mon donovan, do it like i taught ya. love the new tattoo, sara. let's go! dude. what? dude, that's sara. who's sara? the girl in the pink shirt. that's the girl i was telling you about. oh, that's sara. theater two on your left. hey sara, what color underwear today? hey sara. so, when you gonna post something new? announcer: anything you post online, anyone can see. family, friends... see ya later, sara.

[ applause ] >> i -- [ cheers ] thank you very much. normally, we would make a change here, but i didn't have time to make the change. >> but you look good like this. for some guy who's just tuning in, he's been out, he's had a few drinks -- he just got home and he says, maybe i'll watch the show for a bit -- >> and didn't see the first part. >> that's right, and see's you sitting here -- >> so i'm going to have to interview bruce dern dressed like this for the first spot. then, when we have our next break at 12 o'clock, i'll change. >> bruce is probably going to get a big kick out of that. >> i want to conduct this interview as serious as i would a normal interview and try to forget that i'm wearing this, and that my tail's up there. bruce dern has been a

[ laughter ] >> dignify. >> he's a very fine actor, he really is. after appearances in many film that have been near misses, he finally got in a picture that's a very big hit. you can see the lines around the theater, and it's called "coming home", and it's with jane fonda, jon voight and bruce dern. it's one hell of a movie and he's one hell of an actor. mr. bruce dern. [ applause ] [ music ] [ applause ] >> well bruce, tell me a little bit about the picture. [ laughter ] look, you've been interviewed so many times since the picture came out -- i didn't think you'd mind for a few seconds,

>> no, it's nice. it's nice. [ laughter ] >> this is ridiculous. how do ask a grown man -- >> nice pipe cleaners. >> just little pipe cleaners. we have great special effects people here, and costume people. they've been working on this all week. >> i did a mighty carson art players once, with ed sullivan. >> gosh, you are right. that goes back a few years, doesn't it? what year was that? >> i don't know it was -- >> 5 or 6 years. >> well, we played dr. frankenstein and created ed sullivan. >> that's right. that's right. was vincent price in that one, also? >> no. >> that's right. >> oh, was it? >> and stepped out and said, "what have we created here?" and he comes out of the box "alright, ladies and gentlemen, here is our show" ed loved those things. look, how does it feel to be in a big hit now? a really smash hit? >> fantastic. >> because, folks, i'm trying to conduct this interview

of pictures -- [ laughter ] >> i've been in a lot of pictures, which would have gotten a lot more business if i had been dressed like that. >> you've done costumes, you've done -- far out. you were in a picture called -- i'll tell you one. >> i was in a picture that was a prototype for the one that you were going to do, the two headed transplant. >> two headed man, right? >> yes. my two headed man was even sicker than the one you talked about during the monologue. >> it was a guy with? >> two heads. >> who came up with that? >> i don't know. i'm still looking for the guy. [ laughter ] he owes me $1700. >> really? you never got paid? what happened? >> not only did we not get paid, we made the movie in six days, down on santa monica blvd. >> now, wait a minute. i want to ask you one question, before you get to that point, does somebody come to your agent saying, "bruce, i've got a wonderful part for you". >> an ex-agent, yes. >> that goes without saying. >> these guys are making a movie, and they want you to star in it, and they want you to be a doctor. so i figured, well "dr. kildare" was on television then,

a sympathetic doctor. and i go down to a workshop, on santa monica boulevard. and there is a guy who owns a couple of horses, and is a friend of a jockey who rode at hollywood park. i should have known right away i was in trouble. he said, "this is your director, and these are the other people in the cast, and we're going to get started right after lunch. it was about 12:30. he said, "we're going to do this in six days. we started on a tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday -- at noon, a guy came around with the checks, and he gave everybody a check for what they were supposed to get. and then we kept working. well, suddenly, one by one i would look out and members of the crew were gone. they were gone to bank of america at sunset and doheny, where the checks were. and i was an actor, so i had to stay there until 5 o'clock when we finished, i went to the bank. of course, my check bounced, because the guy wrote $12,000 worth of checks, and deposited only $5000. so that was one time when if i'd have been a member of the crew, i'd have at least got paid. and we came back monday

the sheriff had already -- [ laughter ] and yet, the movie has been on tv and everything and yet you can't find the people that made it. >> they just disappeared? so they made whatever they made out of it. >> my god. and the jockey never rode again at hollywood park. [ laughter ] >> that's crazy. i'm going to get out of this because we have a break here, and then we can really discuss the picture. you can't discuss a good picture dressed like this. robert klein is also with us, susan sullivan,

[ applause ] [ music ] >> okay, now we can discuss like two adults. we're talking to bruce about "coming home". which is not a war movie. it's set in that time frame of reference. and really what it is about -- if i can say. >> sure. >> and it's about people's attitudes, and where their head is really at concerning that whole affair. people either think it's gung--ho, like you did in the movie, and you come

john voight is a paraplegic who has been there, and jane fonda is a gal who has mixed emotions to these two fellows. it's really not a war picture in that sense. it's about their reactions to what has happened. it's a love story. really beautifully done. awfully good performances. was that a tough picture to make? >> yes, it was tough to make, because, for like five years, there was a hands--off policy about the war. and then nobody knew how to make it, and from what viewpoint to make it. it is, ultimately, an entertainment medium. so, how do you present this material to an audience and make it entertaining? and that really, uh -- a big credit goes to hal ashby, because he has the kind of non-sequitur sense of humor and he lays back on certain issues. paraplegics could be very grim. guys returning from the war in the state i was in could be very grim. a wife having to go through both sides of the triangle could be very grim. but ashby's got a great way

>> a sarcastic touch in there, from time to time. the humor is there, but at the same time, it's real. >> it's really the only way to approach subject matter for the thing we were trying to say like that. what the movie really is about is the war at home. it was a war that we all saw on television. every night for ten years, we saw what was going on. but you never saw what went on with these guys when they came home -- if they came home. >> yes. hundreds and thousands of them out there, too, in this country. >> the thing i'm proudest of is it's the most collaborative effort i've been in on in a picture from beginning to end. jane and john, and jerry hillman, and hal and myself. i was like the third leg of the triangle. john and jane were actively involved in the anti-war stuff in the late sixties and early seventies and i wasn't. my whole representation in the picture is like -- what i said to them when i started working,

syndrome of vietnam. what about the guys that did go over there, and didn't go to canada and didn't go to sweden? what about the guys that felt they did have to fight it? whether right or wrong, that was their duty and they went and fought it and eventually, they had to come home. and at the end of this movie, you just sit there, and you really don't know quite how to react. that's exactly what happened when the war was over. unfortunately, because of vietnam, the way it ended, there was no vj day. there was nothing to celebrate. >> that's for sure. >> i mean, the only celebration was when each family -- if they were lucky enough to have a member of it come home from there -- and that was their celebration. and that was it. >> we have a small film clip. i think this is the piece where you're coming off the plane -- actually returning, is that what we're going to see? it kind of shows you your attitude, and the relationship you have with your wife at that time. so why don't we roll that -- i don't think it needs any more

>> does your leg hurt? >> no. >> what do you think? >> about what? >> our new car. >> a speedster? it's outstanding. absolutely outstanding. >> i'm glad you're back. >> 1,2,3,4, we don't want your rotten war. 1,2,3,4 -- >> peace, brother >> peace on you too, brother. [ engine revving ] [ applause ] >> good picture. "coming home." it's a good picture. when you're in a picture like that, how much does it change your career from the standpoint of being able to choose scripts, of being offered scripts all of a sudden. >> are the phones suddenly ringing? >> hey bruce, wanna -- yeah.

>> a lot. it's funny, but if you could add a couple of zeros to the end of the pictures i'd been in a lot better shape than i was when i went to work on "coming home". if the numbers had changed on "black sunday", or "king of marvin gardens" a lot of pictures like that. or "smile" it would have been a lot easier. i've had to turn a certain type of a corner, in that i've never been considered a conventional leading man. that's an area i'm trying to get to. i've always felt that i could do it. it's been very difficult to ---- >> turn the corner, as you say >> i'm the fringe guy. i'm on the edge of movies. >> and now people are calling saying, "are you available for this and that?" >> yes, they'd like me to kiss the girl every now and then, instead of grab her and hurt her. [ laughter ] >> yes, you had a good run of that grabbing and hurting, and screaming and kicking and gouging. for a long time. >> poor mom passed away

a girl nicely. [ laughter ] >> looking at you on the screen thinking, "what have i done? this is my little boy doing those terrible things." >> you wanted to go be an actor, now why aren't you playing those jimmy stewart and henry fonda roles now? why are you playing somebody who's never gotten above the mason dixon line, when you've never been below it? [ laughter ] >> didn't quite understand the business. >> it's a whole psychology that i've never. >> did they think when you were becoming an actor that you were going to the devils workshop? >> i was going to make easy, quick money and it'd be over in a few years. i was in theater, and when i came to hollywood, how people from my section of illinois and hollywood, they were far, far apart. you just didn't understand the whole vernacular. hollywood was almost like a dirty word. like that kenneth anger book, "hollywood babylon". that's all they'd read about. untrue. partially. [ laughter ]

of that in there. >> although, winnetka, we had a few too, in winnetka. >> of course. small towns, don't let them fool ya. >> ann margaret. she's got a history. [ laughter ] >> what do you mean, a small town? >> no, we were on the show one night, together, and she's from the same town as i am. >> oh, that's right. >> she went to the same high school. [ applause ] [ cheers ] >> all these people from the same high school? can't be. >> hey, hey, not only them. rock hudson, charlton heston, hugh o'brien, ralph bellamy, ann margaret, myself -- all from a town of 10,000 people, with no drama school. no drama program. just a lot of unhappy kids. [ laughter ] >> they said, "i want to get out of here". i wanna hear laugh, i wanna -- i wanna be love. >> i want a bigger piece of pie, mom. [ laughter ] >> we'll take a break, we'll be right back. oh, you've got to leave, do you? wait a sec. i didn't know. you have to run and go kiss the girl tonight.

1100 catholic boys. >> are you really? >> yeah, i am. >> well, congratulations on the picture. the good picture. and i hope you come back soon. >> thank you, johnny. >> thank you, bruce.

[ cheers ]lot of times, being a teenager means living with labels. you know, like the ones other people give you. and the ones you give yourself. but what happens when you're labeled as someone you're t? "stop!" wearing a label you don't want... or find yourself labeling other people? it can be so frustrating... sad...lonely. if you're feeling overwhelmed by problems at school... "watch it!" at home, or anywhere else, you don't need labels. you need people who will listen. who can help you take control, help you heal, help you win. you need to call the girls and boys town national hotline. (tdd# 1-800-448-1433) 24/7, they're here with help and hope when you need it most.

change your label. change your life. help is just a phone call away. [ music ] [ applause ] >> my next guest, you all know. robert klein. bob's a most inventive and talented comedian. he's currently filming hollywood stuntman, which i believe stars burt reynolds. will you welcome please, robert klein. [ applause ] [ music ] [ applause ] >> oh! [ laughter ] >> they're doing your strange sounds. >> did they take a break recently? >> yes, umm huh.

right? >> ohhhh! [ laughter ] >> wasn't that the theremin? >> that's my theremin impression. i can only do two, fred capossela and the theremin. >> fred capossela, in case you don't know, is the racetrack caller, right? >> good afternoon, racing fans, this is fred capossela. [ laughter ] the track is fast, the day is clear, and i talk funny. [ laughter ] >> remember, old fred. >> good old fred. yes, bless him. >> he's retired in florida now, fred. >> still talking funny. >> his wife brings dinner and calls, "here comes mary with the dinner, i'll want the fruit cocktail first, split pea soup second. roast beef third, mashed potatoes are fourth, apple pie fifth. [ laughter ] >> you can't get out of that. [ laughter ] >> what is that about -- if you listen to race track announcers, generally, when i'm on my way home after a show at night, they always play their results of the race. and they have the guy doing the finish. but the races are over. people have been paid. they've won, or lost,

put that on television. on radio? and they call it too. >> it gives a certain excitement. >> they all have a certain tone or inflection. >> that's right. they put a device around their lower abdomen. >> like a fight announcer. who is it? jimmy lemmon? no, jimmy lemmon, the guy who does the announces the fight. "from, wearing the --" and they're always a pugilist, never a fighter. >> pugilist? >> a pugilist, yes. a ten round exhibition of pugilism. >> i guess i do know what a pugilist is. that's an odd word for it. >> how have you been? >> i'm fine. i've been doing this film for five or six weeks and having a wonderful time. >> yeah. >> burt is terrific guy. doesn't take that macho image too seriously. he is a woman, you know. >> i didn't -- you see it's a -- >> i wasn't aware of that. another hollywood revelation, right here. >> you wouldn't know it. the thing about it is these

things i don't believe. i was brought up with my parents saying, "be careful, that lamp cord. you know, that kind of thing. where white when you go out at night so the cars can see you." >> don't go swimming half hour after you eat. >> gotta wait an hour. >> that's right. >> although my father told me later that you didn't have to wait an hour. it depended on what you had. he was the arbiter on the beach. "what did you have? tuna salad sandwich? 37 minutes." [ laughter ] >> peanut butter and jelly? 15 minutes. i thought if i went in early, i drowned. there was a fellow, buddy jo hooker, who rappelled down the c & a building, a 20 story glass skyscraper the other day, on a rope. let himself down. there are a lot of stunts in this, and burt and jan michael vincent actually do some dangerous things themselves. i, myself, do all my own stunts. i breathe -- [ laughter ] i walked out of rolls royce, all by myself.

>> they have done things that i really -- some of these people have done some things i don't believe. the thing about a stunt man -- they call it a gag. you tell them what you want, "i want you to go at 40 miles per hour on a motorcycle and skid under a moving trailer truck". "alright, that's $750". i don't know how he comes up with the price. [ laughter ] >> do you suppose he figures in bandages, medicine, doctors, and comes up with some figure. >> the guy gets up, he limps, i'm the type of guy who will definitely die a natural death. have you ever had that feeling about yourself? i know it's not going to be "comedian robert klein was killed trying to rappel down" -- >> a 20 floor building. >> with me, it'll be measles, something acute. [ laughter ] >> we've had some of the guys on here from time to time, and done some sketches. we had dar robinson on one night. he was one of the guys who was the high fall expert, who goes up on top of a 12, 15 story building, which is -- how many

12? >> yeah, something like that. >> so, you know 150 feet, 140 feet, and does a header into the airbag. on fire. >> we have the guy -- >> while whistling, "that's what i like about the south." i don't understand it. >> we have the guy who holds the world's record. i'm sorry that i don't remember his name. he's a lovely guy. his name is aj something, and he holds the record at 220 feet, i think, at the top of the astrodome. but now, he was about to try it with wind factors, outdoors, from the helicopter. he said, "there's no problem when you land on the bag. [ laughter ] the problem is when you miss the bag". they require some first aid. everybody in the movie said they're going to look the other way. it would be awful, if -- >> there injuries, but -- you think the guys are foolhardy, but they're not. they program these things. >> they're very sensible types. >> yeah, they program them almost scientifically, if the car is going to roll, how many times, and they figure out the charge, and all of the variables. very often, they pull it off.

in the movie, though. the drivers, who drive the actors various places -- [ laughter ] hal needham is the director. he's one of the foremost stuntmen. i think he did earn the reputation as the foremost stunt man. he took me to see the daily rushes, what we had shot the day before, at warner brothers, where there's a ten mile speed limit and a lot of speed bumps. and he had one foot on the gas, and one foot going -- and we're going just to see the dailies. it gives you some idea what goes on in the film itself. plus, there's a new thing. a lot of the stuntmen have kind of image, you know, real masculine. they substitute the expression s.o.b. -- can't say, you know what i'm talking about -- for every noun. so it's, "well, that's a good looking s.o.b. there," [ laughter ] "i did one back there, it was a hard s.o.b." you know. he gave me an actor's direction.

to not be so angry so fast. he said, "can you take the s.o.b. down, just a little bit?" >> i mean, everything -- >> and i understood what he meant. [ laughter ] >> you did no stunts whatsoever? >> i -- no. i -- in the first part, i had to go up in a helicopter, and come down, and the pilot said, "robert, watch my tail, there." there were people running around. it wasn't like an airport. >> but you weren't hanging from the helicopter, or anything? >> no, but my pilot was dressed in shoulder-length hair and bell bottom trousers. it's not the way i envision my pilot. i like them kind of square and "hello, this is --" [ laughter ] >> we're going flying, we're going flying -- >> he was chewing gun and -- >> we've got to do a commercial here. we'll be right back after

[ applause ] [ applause ] [ music ] >> we're back with robert klein. we have susan sullivan and dr. carl sagan. if i remember correctly, was it the time before last you were here, you burned yourself? you hurt your arm or something. >> yeah. >> and the time before you -- >> a pack of matches -- >> went off in your trousers. yeah. >> on my behind. my butt. and it burned me. i have a couple of very difficult to explain scars. >> there's no way you can move fast enough when something like that happens. it has to be close to the speed of light. >> i did the incineration boogie. ah! [ laughter ] a very crazy thing that had all my friends jumping. my arm, i fractured on christmas day, playing tennis. i fell on it and had a radial head fracture here. we were on location for this movie in tuscaloosa,

we blew up 72 acres of buildings. it's the climax of this film, you don't believe. >> they constructed buildings to blow up? >> no, the government owns these buildings. they're used as army barracks and other things. they want to destroy them. it's going to be a shopping center. this film was looking for just that amount of buildings to blow up. with cars, just missing, tremendous smokestacks exploding on them -- that sort of thing. the fascination -- >> it's like george washington slept here. >> oh boy. >> they go out to destroy something just for the -- >> the look on their faces. the satisfaction of the destruction. it's pretty unbelievable. shoot -- you know, there's a lot of -- >> a lot of "shoot" going on. >> a lot of tuscaloosa exuberance. "shoot, i never saw a thing like that". [ laughter ] we went to the university of alabama, to answer some questions. the questions were like, "what made you choose that kind of car?" they wanna know all that. [ laughter ] the football season dies hard

we were there in early february, and they were showing reruns of bear bryant's tv show. [ laughter ] he shows pictures of the boys, and he tells their hometown, and he tells all about them. "he's looking forward to that auburn game, on december 2nd. it's gonna be a good game. here's a linebacker, he's a good ole boy. he's from layton, alabama. he's going to be back two more years. he's just a sophomore." [ laughter ] [ applause ] they have to keep on reminding him to drink the cola. you know, the sponsors. and he's drinking cola, and a couple quick -- [ laughter ] "here's another boy, he's a linebacker. he's a big boy from mobile, alabama. he's a junior". we had a company doctor there. his name was dr. bobo. that was his name. >> dr. bobo? >> hope he's listening now, dr. bonbon. good doctor. specializes in-- >> he sounds like a clown.

>> i wouldn't want to go to -- >> he caters exclusively to clowns. "let's see your red nose, here." his name is dr. bobo, it's an old french name. bonbon. >> bonbon. he gave me the good news about my radial head fracture. i've got a kind of gimp there. it's not like the other one, is what i'm trying to say. >> you mean, you can't reach as far with this one? >> no, i can't. and he gave me the prognosis. "yeah, they usually stay that way. you'll never gonna stay in that thing." [ laughter ] thank you, dr. bobo. >> maybe you just learn to live with that. >> maybe i should get a second opinion, dr. booboo, his assistant. he was a wonderful guy. also, this is the only industry that makes a picnic for itself every day. it was so cold in tuscaloosa and we were noses running, 26 degrees, but when lunch comes, and you've been awake since five in the morning to shoot, the caterers are so good -- maybe they aren't good, but you don't know the difference. you've been up since 5:30 "nice rat tail, okay." [ laughter ] but we eat.

your own lunch things. you know how the temptation is overwhelming, when you go to restaurants and make your own salad, "we'll need some greens. muah! [ laughter ] we'll need some of that, what are they, i don't know." i need some bacon bits. you get the bread". [ laughter ] >> it's like a spree. >> it seems like a spree, and of course, we have a lunch like that. want liver? want corned beef? want salads. every just awful, just eating too much. >> when does this movie come out? >> probably in the summer. i've had such a wonderful time making it. >> it sound like it. >> it's going to be the real thing. not one of those crummy little ones. >> sounds like fun. we're going to do this. susan sullivan will join us,

[ applause ] [ music ] susan sullivan is with us tonight. she uh -- i think most people will remember her from her performance in "rich man, poor man", and tonight, she's going to be starring in a new

"having babies", which i imagine is fairly self--explanatory. we won't go into it too deeply, because it's still fairly early in the evening. will you please welcome susan sullivan? [ applause ] [ music ] did i tell you that before, when you were on the show? [ whistles ] >> god, that's awful nice. thank you. whoever did that. >> now, you're a women's libber. the national organization for women would say that is a male chauvinist put--down, when somebody whistles. i've never understood that. >> i must say, i've never understood it either, and i'm a great supporter of the womens' movement. >> so am i. >> i love to be whistled at. [ whistles ] >> thank you. god love you. you make my mother so happy. >> they wear such lovely clothes. television and womens magazines are full of wonderful clothes, undergarments, they make you more provocative, and they walk out and some guy says, "hey", and they say "what do you think i am?"

>> it's really that women want to be appreciated for their minds. when i was a playboy bunny, during that period of time -- talk about being appreciated for your mind -- the club had just opened in new york. they hired a wide variety of girls. they had girls who were there working on their doctorate from columbia. i was in college, and so on. it bothered me so much that people would think i was -- forgive me -- "the dumb bunny," that when i waited tables, i'd recite shakespeare, anything. "and you have your scotch and soda, sir". >> that's a funny idea. how long did you do that? >> i did it for about three years, but only part time. weekends, and such. >> that would probably be a good place to work if you were working on a psychology degree, because you had to run across -- >> a fascinating group of people. gloria steinem did that article, she worked there and did the article on what it was like to be a bunny. you know, i am such a very

one of the more attractive things about me -- to myself -- and when i worked there, the girls would come in every night after working on the floor and they would say, "i made ninety bucks tonight. ninety bucks." and i would always feel like such a failure, because i made the least amount, and i always thought it was because i had the smallest bosom. [ laughter ] >> is -- is there a correlation between the size of the bosom and the -- >> and the tips? at that point in time, i think there was. at least, there was in my mind, and that goes back to being whistled at, you see? you know, you want to be appreciated for something more than that. let's talk about something else. >> did you get your degree in college? >> yes, i did. i did very well in school. >> in this picture -- it's serious -- it's called "having babies," you play -- i think we talked about it before, you play a gynecologist. >> a gynecologist. >> i was going to say a woman gynecologist, which is really dumb to say. >> no, not at all. because most gynecologists are men. >> what else would you play, though? if i had said you were playing a gynecologist, it's redundant

play a woman gynecologist. >> okay, i see. but most gynecologists are men. >> yes. >> which is -- >> do women -- i know women who feel awkward about going to a male gynecologist, so why aren't there more women in that field? >> i don't know. i really don't know. i spent a day with a gynecologist. [ laughter ] observing. >> that'll be on the z channel this saturday. [ laughter ] >> "i spent a day with a gynecologist". tuesday at 9:00, friday at 12:30. be sure to catch it. [ laughter ] >> it was very interesting, needless to say. it was -- he was a man, and i think the most fascinating thing about it -- >> i know the most fascinating thing -- no, no, that was a silly thing to say and i shouldn't have said that. >> it's alright. well, he asked these women who had come in if it would be alright if this actress observed while they had -- i guess i can say it -- a pelvic examination, which is awkward and

i'm not crazy about doing it. what amazed me was that each of these women said yes, it would be fine. and what i realized is that if my gynecologist had said to me, "do you mind if some actress" -- i'd have said, "are you kidding? of course not!" >> that's interesting. >> yes, and what i'd gotten in touch with in working on this series -- i don't know if i want to say this about myself, but it's true -- >> don't listen to anyone. >> oh, i don't. [ laughter ] >> no one's listening. >> put your hand over your speaker at home. >> um, well, i guess i am very uncomfortable with my sexuality, and this show is really -- and i think a lot of women are -- it's an unusual thing, maybe, to admit, but i think going to a gynecologist was always and still is a very uncomfortable -- >> traumatic? >> it was for me, vaguely traumatic. when i was growing up, i wanted my sexuality to be romantic and mysterious, and i never wanted to know the specifics of it. and i really think a lot of women feel that way.

feel that way. >> i can see that. all of a sudden, now, it's a little too clinical and a little bit of a -- don't you think it depends a great deal on the attitude of the doctor or the examiner? i've heard women say that. that it's the attitude sometimes, that makes them feel awkward. >> i think that may be part of it, but i think really the bottom line is how a woman feels about herself and her own body. there was a book several years ago -- i just thought of it -- called "a sensuous woman", by j. do you remember it? and the basic thing that that book said to women was that you have to learn to like your body, no matter what it is, and you have to learn to know intimately. and you have to be able to touch yourself. that's why that whole thing with betty ford and touching your breasts and doing breast exams is really opening up an area that women and men should be exposed to. and i think that's one of the things that -- >> you know, that's absolutely right. but everybody was brought up, unfortunately, or many people were brought up with that -- the tremendous guilt -- certain parts of the body are

touch -- and that hang up can hold on for many years. >> i had no idea, john, until i went and watched these women, who were so wonderful. most of them are younger -- wonderful and open, and willing to -- i was going to say expose themselves. [ laughter ] >> i know what you're saying. >> share themselves. >> do you think you could ever deliver a baby? you read about in new york sometimes some cab driver always seems to be the hero. and it happens quite frequently. if there's no complications, they say, somebody, if they do not panic -- nature pretty well takes care of itself, and you can do it, it you don't panic. >> yes. i think i could. >> yeah. >> really, the body is extraordinary, and i have gotten better, now that i've told you how neurotic i am. >> now that you've gotten it all out here on the show? that'll be $40 for the first half--hour. [ laughter ] or is there another session? how many episodes have you made of this? >> well, they're doing that new test thing that abc does. they'll do six, one--hour episodes, and if has an audience and a following, then it will go on,

>> look forward to seeing it. >> which, i think, is fairer, than just the one shot. >> yeah. i saw a little light go on. are you trying to tell me something? i certainly hope so.

[ applause ] [ music ] [ applause ] >> my next guest, i always look forward to having here. he is a professor of astronomy and space sciences at cornell, director of the laboratory for planetary studies. he's written a best--selling and fascinating book called

would you welcome, please, dr. carl sagan? [ applause ] [ music ] your name was discussed on this very show last night. we had ray bradbury on, a science fiction writer, and were talking about being out in a jet propulsion laboratory and so forth. well, what's new in space, carl? see, i like to condense the subject down real quickly, and don't start off too big. [ laughter ] >> i think i saw a comment of yours in time or newsweek. someone had asked you about -- the pictures that are out now, "star wars," "close encounters," and they asked you what you thought, and you thought that they should be -- not that they weren't entertaining -- but you thought they should deal a little better with scientific facts. >> yeah, my sense of them is sort of that the eleven--year--old in me loved them, but they could have made a better

a lot of different aspects of things. "star wars" starts out saying it's on some different galaxy, and then you see, there's people. starting with scene one, there's a problem, because human beings are the result of a unique, evolutionary sequence based on so many, random events on the earth. in fact, i think most evolutionary biologists would agree that if you started the earth out again, and just let those random factors operate, you might wind up with beings that are as smart as us, and as ethical and artistic and all the rest, but you wouldn't end up with human beings. that's earth. so another planet, different environment, very unlikely to have human beings. >> are you saying another galaxy -- it's not possible that there could be -- >> it's extremely unlikely that there would be creatures similar to us as the dominant ones in "star wars." that, and other things. they're all white. the skin of all the humans in

is sort of like this. >> right. >> and not even the other colors represented on the earth are present, much less the greens and blues and purples and oranges. >> they did have a scene in "star wars" with a lot of strange characters. >> yeah, but none of them seemed to be in charge of the galaxy. everybody in charge of the galaxy seemed to look like us. [ laughter ] >> and i thought it was a large amount of human chauvinism. and i also thought right at the very end, the wookie didn't get a medal also. you know all the people got medals, and the wookie who had been fighting in there all the time -- he didn't get any medal. and i thought that was an example of anti--wookie discrimination. [ laughter ] >> here you are, dissecting this scientifically, carl, and taking all the fun out of it for me. >> that's it. you can view these pictures entirely un--critically. >> that's really what it was. it was a shoot--out, wasn't it? a western in outer space. the good guys versus the bad guys. >> my comment is that every picture which touches on science could do that, and at the same time, just a little more effort to get the science right.

made was about the illusion to speed, when it really had to do with distance. >> yeah, that's right. han solo talked about getting to a certain place in only so many parsec of time, or speed, when it's a unit of distance. it's like saying that from here to san diego is 30 mph. it just doesn't mean anything. >> yeah. [ laughter ] and how many people sitting there were figuring that out >> all you've got to do is hire one impoverished graduate the facts right. >> when ray bradbury was on last night -- and i think i've asked you this question before -- as i remember, in "star wars", they got up and got in the spaceship, and they were beyond the speed of light, right? >> yup. >> now, as far as science knows, that's supposed to be the finite limit of velocity. the speed of light, and nothing

and yet, in this picture, they were going faster than that. i asked ray -- i think i asked you the same question -- if they found something that was beyond the speed of light, wouldn't' that change all of the conception of what's going on? >> a lot of people are somewhat annoyed that physicists should lay any constraints on what we do in the future, but i think the way to look at it is something like this -- this is all due to einstein, it's all related. his lap. all the people who are annoyed at not being able to travel faster than the speed of light -- it's simply this. if no material object can travel at or beyond the speed of light, then there's a great deal of things in the world that are understandable, quantitative in detail -- the universe makes sense. if it were possible to travel faster than the speed of light, then all of that comprehensibility breaks down, and there are a lot of awkward things that can happen, such as

if you know what i mean. the light goes on, and then you walk to the switch to turn it. [ laughter ] >> isn't there a famous poem about that? "there was a young lady from bright... >> who could travel much faster than light? >> she set out one day, in a relative way, and returned the preceding night". >> right. that's the one. that was little carl sagan, reciting -- and now, let's hear our next student. very good, carl. you may take your seat. we'll be right back after this.

[ applause ] [ music ] [ applause ] >> we were talking about "star wars" during the commercial, and i said, "you realize "star wars" made over 200 million dollars?" and he said, "you could go to a planet for 200 million dollars", right? [ laughter ] >> it's true. that's what it costs. unmanned. >> see it live, right? >> unless you go coach. [ laughter ] >> that's right, then you get one of those little tray dinners, and it's lousy. um, we've talked about this

is still mind--boggling. you're involved in looking for extra terrestrial intelligence, how do you go about looking for it? >> well, there are a number of popular ideas. >> how would you know it -- that they were -- what if we can't comprehend what they were trying to tell us? is that a possibility? >> sure, but it's a little like this -- if you're an advanced civilization, and you wish to communicate with a backwards civilization, you talk slow, right? and simple. >> and obviously, we would be the backwards civilization, because we do not have that capability -- >> well, we've just emerged. our technology just barely has come to the point where we're able to send spacecraft to probe in a halting and tentative way the nearby planets, and construct large radio telescopes, to see if anyone is sending us a message. it's this letter, into things, that, for the first time is now being funded -- at a quite low

program that nasa has funded is in the present budget. the idea is simply to look at a lot of stars, or carve up the sky into little pieces and see if each piece has a message coming to us. >> even the nearest one would be? >> the nearest star is the one four light years away, so if we got a message today, it left that star four years ago. but we ought to be used to that kind of idea. if we look at the sun, we're not seeing it now, we're seeing it eight minutes ago, because it took eight minutes for light to travel -- at the speed of light -- from the sun to the earth. the question of how you would recognize a signal as intelligent -- suppose you heard something that said, "beep, beep beep, beep, beep, beep, beep", and went through the first thirty or so prime numbers. >> that's an answering service. [ laughter ] >> in other words, you go through the numbers. >> yeah.

would say "1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17", which are -- unless i missed one, the first prime numbers, and so you would say here's somebody who for some reason is into prime numbers -- a prime number is a number that can only be divided by one and itself -- here is somebody who is into prime numbers, they've attracted our attention -- there must be more to it than just prime numbers. then you would look more closely. that's the general scenario. >> so you figure the message that we get would be in some kind of mathematical -- >> well, it would be so regular -- >> which is universal type of -- >> yeah, that you can only say, the only possibility would be that it is intelligent and you would look for the more detailed message, either at a faster time or some adjacent frequency or something of that sort. the remarkable thing is that for all the history of mankind, people have wondered about intelligent things elsewhere. i think it's in religion and philosophy legends, but this is the first time that we have the competence and the ability

and we're just beginning. >> are we sending out from here some kind of -- outside from the thing that you were explaining -- >> when the record -- >> and the record -- are we sending any type of radio signals? >> not really. there was one ceremonial demonstration at the resurfacing of the observatory in 1974. a signal was sent by frank drake, who's getting married in two days to a place that's 24,000 light years away. it's not -- so, if there's an answer, it'll be in 48,000 years. don't hold your breath. [ laughter ] >> that was -- >> that's really being on hold. >> it was only to demonstrate that it could be done. in general, radio signals have not been sent out. we just have listened. but there are signals that are sent out, including this program. >> is it true that all television and radio shows that

through the void? >> yup. they do. >> they do not diminish? >> they do, they diminish by what's called the inverse square law, so if it goes twice as far, it's a quarter as intense. >> but somebody with a receiver -- >> powerful receiving antenna. >> so all of those tv shows and radio shows that have been broadcast -- >> but the earth turns, and so they get jumbled up. >> so they're still traveling through the cosmos. >> it's a little bit like this. if you imagine that right here is the earth, and around it is a kind of spherical wave front, travel ling at the speed of light. it's now about thirty light years away from the earth, because the first large--scale commercial television was about thirty years ago. in there, is the television programs of the late 40's, "howdy doody", "milton berle", the army mccarthy hearings and other signs of high intelligence on the planet earth. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> somebody could be seeing berle right now, walking around on the sides of his feet, in a dress,

saying, "i think they've got troubles, down there". >> i just hope they wait until sesame street arrives. it'll save us. >> that's fascinating, that idea. >> the actual situation is that even if the programs could not themselves be made out, there's no question a low form of intelligent life on earth could be deduced that way. >> if you had to make a calculated guess, or theorize, when would it happen? ten years? fifty years? >> it depends on how much of an effort we make. if we make no effort, the possibility of detecting such signals is small. if we make a big effort, then the probability goes up, and nobody knows to what. >> now, people are going to ask you, because you said this could cost money, you hear from somebody ten light years away. by the time you transmit back and forth, what is the value of that? you have to sit around and wait

years, to get an answer. they're saying "a hundred years from now, who the hell's going to care? we'll all be gone". >> well, there's a lot of answers to that. it's a good question. it's one worth pondering. for one thing, there's a lot of information in human society that goes only one way. socrates talks to us. we don't talk to socrates. that's what books are about. people who are dead convey their wisdom to us. >> so, somebody could transmit in the knowledge of another planet and just send the direct knowledge. >> think of that. think of a civilization on a different planet, evolved under quite different circumstances than here. what is their art like? their music, their science, their technology, their politics? what have they learned? have they been in contact with still other civilizations? do they have a repository of information? think of how we'd be able to view ourselves, in a new way. suddenly, to have a new perspective. there's another aspect to it, too, and that is we're at a very dangerous moment

we have weapons of mass destruction, we are in the process of inadvertently altering our climate and exhaustion of fossil fuels and minerals -- all kinds of problems -- which come with technology. we are not certain that we will be able to survive this period of what i like to call technological adolescence. were we to receive a message from somewhere else, it would show that it's possible to survive this kind of period, and that's a useful bit of information to have. >> wouldn't that be something? in other words, someone has solved a particular problem that we're still wrestling with. >> it's good to know, that the problem could be solved. very useful information. >> or some of the medical breakthroughs, some way to end wars -- >> maybe. medical breakthroughs are tougher because, i suspect, our physiology would be quite different from that of any other creatures, if there are some. also, it's possible that you make such a search and the results would be negative. it's possible. you don't want to pre--judge the outcome. but it seems to me that's an important bit of information, also.

intelligent life -- is rare, that makes something particularly precious and valuable about life here. >> isn't it true when you talk about fifty light years, or hundred light years in astronomical terms, that is a minute distance? >> it's true. >> now, you can get into thousands of light years and millions of light years. >> a light year is about six trillion miles. the distance to the nearest star is about four light years. the distance to the center of the milky way galaxy, that we're a part of, is about thirty thousand light years. the distance to the nearest galaxy is about two million light years. >> fascinating book, "the dragons of eden", and of course, you've still got the "cosmic connection", which is one of the all--time fascinating books. thanks for being here. it is always a great kick. >> my pleasure. >> lady gynecologist, you'll start when on your show? >> tomorrow night. >> bob, where are you headed? >> to the gynecology appointment. [ laughter ] >> to determine your sexuality? okay. tomorrow, shirley maclaine will be here, cheryl tiegs, ronnie graham,

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