[ music ] [ applause ] >> well... that's enough, really. now be honest, was that-- was that applause for me, or are you glad the bicentennial is over? [ laughter ] oh, can only look at cronkite for about 8 hours and that's it. how are ya tonight? you're-- incidentally you're in luck tonight. the air conditioning is working, and my monologue just went out. [ laughter ] you know who's got a bir-- you know who's got a birthday today? doc severinsen. it's doc's birthday. [ applause ] >> yes, i do.

you're not gonna tell me how old you are. i really don't know. the slightest idea. >> what's-what's the difference? it's like, you know, you have slightly graying hair, but-but-- no, but that doesn't mean anything. for a trumpet player? your lips turn gray, and-- [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> no, it was a strange color of raspberry, and they were lying on the floor beside the bed this morning. [ laughter ] >> i haven't the foggiest. i don't even want to talk to you. i'm gonna talk to tommy over there. incidentally, this is "the tonight show," coming to you from week-- it says hollywood, right? now people who are here know we don't come from hollywood. we come from burbank, where scientists-- where space scientists are busy looking for signs of life. [ laughter ] how are you, tom?

[ laughter ] >> tommy is pretty choked up. he had a big day today. the man on the eskimo pie truck let tommy ring his bell. [ laughter ] well, let's see. i have a late report from the newsroom to pass on to you in case you-- in case you missed the news, the early news tonight. mgm just announce that they have purchased the rights, the motion picture rights to the life story of elizabeth rae. they're calling it "that's entertainment, part three." [ laughter ] well, let's go and see what's happening back in, uh, back in washington. president ford today just exercised another veto. that's the fifty second veto he has, uh, used since he has been, uh, president. and what he did-- congress had passed a 3.9 billion dollar employment program, and, um, president ford vetoed that. 51, and, um,-- it's a public works bill that apparently will give hundreds of thousands of people jobs, and i think the reason the president vetoed it-- he said, um-- he figures why

of work in november. [ laughter ] [ applause ] and you know who's visiting our country? i just returned from england. queen elizabeth and her, um, husband, uh, phillip are here in our country today, and i understand the queen was very gracious in celebrating america's bicentennial. she said there were no hard feelings at all that the 13 colonies had seceded from britain. she did have a note from the queen mother, though. she said, "you rotten kids never write." [ laughter ] the queen mother is jewish. most people don't know that. [ laughter ] president ford, i understand, gave her quite a reception. he rolled out the red carpet. he had a marine, uh, marine corps honor guard. he showered her with lavish gifts. gave her a wonderful banquet. and, uh, actually that's not too impressive when you consider the fact that he did exactly the same thing the day before for an uncommitted delegate.

that's what he did all right. then the queen-- change the subject, you see. she visited philadelphia. now, there wasn't much to do in philadelphia after the royal couple saw the liberty bell, so she visited bobby rydell's birthplace. [ laughter ] and, uh, there's a rumor that she might co host the mike douglas show while she's in philadelphia. just, uh-- wasn't, uh, wasn't the funniest rumor of the day, but it was a-- things are toughening, you know. they're really-- um, monetarily. they say the real reason that the queen is here is to raise some money by doing an imperial margarine commercial. [ laughter ] [ applause ] let's see. did you watch ronald reagan on television? that's interesting, now. he bought a half hour of primetime on abc television network, costing him something like $80,000. how many here, just to take a sample, saw that address on

[ laughter ] boy, there's 80 big one right down the-- nobody saw that? he spent $80,000 on abc. well, that's a typical abc audience! uh-- [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> hey-oh! >> no, i know one lady who saw the broadcast. you know what her comment was? she says, "i think laverne had her hair done." [ laughter ] weird. reagan's very effective on television, as usual. he did a great job. he didn't get any delegates, but he sold-- he sold 20 million boxes of borax. [ laughter ] well, you-- you'd have had to seen the show to know that. you know it's a very close race? according to the polls today, did reagan have a couple of more delegates? yeah, at the convention's that coming up, and it's gonna be a very close race to see who gets the nomination, and it's kinda-- it's tough to decide for republicans because both the

kind of the same conservative philosophies, so it's gonna be a tough choice at the, uh, republican national convention. they gotta make a choice for the-- between the gipper or the tripper. [ laughter ] [ applause ] and jimmy carter, as you know, is in the process of interviewing, um, potential vice presidential running mates, and, uh, he's asking a lot of questions. uh, who was down there the other day? oh, everyone's going down there. >> musky. >> musky, yeah. maybe he'll go with musky this time because of what musky did for hum-- for humphrey in '68. he helped-- he helped-- helped hubert a lot. [ laughter ] but, uh, jimmy is, uh, interrogating him, trying to find out some of their views. he's asking such questions as, um, "where can i get devil floss wholesale?" [ laughter ] [ applause ] can you, uh-- little questions.

leaked out was, uh, "for a five minute period, can you be vague on foreign policy?" that was one of the questions. the other one was, "have you ever double dated with wayne hayes?" [ laughter ] [ applause ] we have a fascinating show tonight. a gentleman i have just met before the show. uh, mr. charlie finley, who is the owner of the oakland a's is here. he is a rather controversial man, and, uh, just before the show tonight, mr. finley completed a deal. so three members of our trombone section-- [ laughter ] to the boston pops in exchange for two oboe players and a designated bassoonist. so... so, you gotta play. [ applause ] you guys know who you are, so if you wanna pack your gear, then get on the bus. how long will this-- we have mr. george peppard tonight, we have charley-- i mentioned charley finley.

[ applause ] and dr. jeffrey burn has a fascinating book on called "the gentle giants," which is all about gorillas, and you'll learn more about gorillas tonight than you'll probably ever learned before. [ laughter ] we want you to go away happy, having a lot of knowledge. thank you for coming. we'll be with you in just a couple. [ music ] [ applause ] when you do that, people think you don't like me. you come in, and you just-- you run off. you know, come in with the product, and-- [ laughter ] just, you know, stand here and look like we're friends. you know, sh-- people on the show should be close. we're like a family. >> well, i, um-- you got a buck? [ laughter ] [ applause ]

of a family, tom. yeah. there's only one place you find the wishbone name.

watch. [ applause ] >> here we are. [ applause ] >> you seem to have recovered from your jet lag. >> yeah, i'm a little more on top of things. still a little bit-- a little bit funky. what'd you do to celebrate your birthday? anything today at all? >> i went over to santa monica. i just strolled over. >> another big day, huh? i saw the girls had a cake for you in the makeup room and everything. >> oh, yeah. the lovely ladies in the makeup room. [ laughter ] >> fix up your face. here is, uh-- here is a copy of the national enquirer, which is not exactly in the league with the new york times, but, uh, they come up with some kooky things sometimes. they went to five psychics to make some predictions for

i don't know who the psychics are, but they have the names here. um, five of-- five of them predicted that jimmy carter, uh, not president ford will win the election. um... most mind- boggling event of the year will be a message, is what one of the psychics says-- to earth from an outer space civilization, predicts british psychic marjorie staves. "the aliens will warn us against sending certain types of vehicles in certain areas of space," she said. "they'll do this to protect themselves." they've been predicting that one for 20 years, right? that the aliens are coming. muhammed ali will retire from boxing, and become a religious leader. florence vatan, or vaty, the los angeles psychic, she predicts it'll be disclosed that the cia's agents have learned how to make objects vanish and later reappear. [ laughter ] does that, uh, boggle your mind? i'm in here again. they've been predicting this for the last five years. >> i heard about this, yeah. >> "johnny carson will quit his shift-- his "tonight show"

with nbc. not true. that's not-- >> ooh. >> no, it's not. [ laughter ] telly-- telly savalas will walk out on "kojak." that's one of the predictions. um, famous psychic paige bryant-- have you ever heard of the famous psychic paige bryant? well, he predicts that sea explorer jacques cousteau will discover the legendary lost city of atlantis. i hope he does, because he's running out of creatures to talk to. [ laughter ] i mean, he's getting-- he's getting down to clams now. you think? well, it used to be porpoises, and whales, and octopus, but it's not glamorous anymore. "and you see the little clam is moving along, and he is going to his home." [ laughter ] henry kissinger will be forced to resign over secret deals and later will fall in love with a hollywood starlet. that's a prediction. psychiatrists will find a new drug that vastly improves memory, a mushroom extract from a rare south american fungus.

the band has been using that rare fungus for years. here's an interesting-- here's an interesting one. sunny bono will open a chain of sunny's pizza parlors and make a fortune. good for sunny. lucille ball will become a us ambassador to an asian nation. oh, that's weird. former vice president spiro agnew will star in the movie version of his recently published novel. can't wait for that. [ laughter ] i read all of those predictions. we have a psychic that works here2at nbc. i don't know if you know him or not. >> does he have a name? >> no, he's anonymous. he doesn't wish to be known, but he handed-- he shoved these under my door today. he made some predictions that is not-- that are not in here. he says the bionic woman will become pregnant and give birth to a toaster. [ laughter ] [ applause ] that's our own prediction. our psychic-- sam's psychic, actually, is his name--

be elected president, but will never return to washington due to his inability to find the off ramp. [ laughter ] within five years, there will be coin operated funeral homes. [ laughter ] i tell you, he's weird, folks. he says chairs-chairs will become obsolete. people will sit on small piles of tuna. [ laughter ] jacqueline onassis will announce her engagement to the late jean paul getty. [ laughter ] [ applause ] mary hartman, mary hartman will be arrested by the fbi agents for transporting her nose across state lines. [ laughter ] the pope will wear a leisure suit next easter. [ laughter ] two creatures from another planet will land in oakland, california, and charles finley will sell them to the boston red sox.

[ applause ] jimmy carter will be elected president, and bert parks will appointed secretary of teeth. [ laughter ] hugh o'brien will be bitten by the acting bug, and the bug will die. [ laughter ] in the near future, there will be smoking and nonsmoking sections at cemeteries. [ laughter ] masters and johnson will publish a new book, advancing the current theory that sex is less satisfying when one or both of the participants fail to show up. [ laughter ] elliot gould's tuxedo will come down with ring around the cummerbund. [ laughter ] alice cooper will announce his intention to take his own hand in marriage. alice says he's tired of living together. [ laughter ] elizabeth rae will do a television special about washington in which she will

office ceilings. [ laughter ] those are some of the predictions that they didn't have in here. sam the psychic-- sam the psychic. [ cheers ] [ applause ] sam psychic, right? has an office down here, an unlisted office. uh, we have, uh, mr. -- who we've had fun with the last few weeks in the monologue, and i said, why not-- why don't we invite charles finley on the show? he's an unusual gentleman, and i think you'll find it fascinating. uh, he is with us, along with george peppard, dr. jeffrey bourne-bourne. what? >> bourne. >> bourne? oh, excuse me, i called him born. dr. born, like in born yesterday. uh, dr. yesterday is with us. [ laughter ] he has a book about gorillas. you know anything about gorillas? >> a little bit. >> well, that's all you need to know. [ laughter ] >> well, it could be dangerous getting to know too much, you know. >> well, he will-- now, you see, gorillas have been getting a lot of bad press. they're-they're really gentle-- >> what they need to do is get a new press agent. >> no, they're-they're gentle people.

gentle animals. why do i talk to you? uh, and charlie callas is here, who is warped completely. and we will do this, and mr. finley will join us.

[ applause ] [ applause ] >> my guest here tonight is charles finley, and he has for-for a few years been thought of one of the most-- more controversial owners of, uh-- team owners of pro baseball. the recent controversy came up because he sold three ball players from oakland for a cash value of three and half dollars, and the baseball commissioner came in and vetoed that sale, and then charley finley, i understand, filed a ten million dollar lawsuit against the baseball league. uh, it's quite a mess. uh, at any rate, he's a very colorful man, and he's guided the oakland athletics to five consecutive division championships, and three consecutive world championships. could you welcome, please, charley o. finley.

[ music ] [ applause ] it's good to have you here, mr. finley. >> thanks, john, it's a real pleasure and honor to be with you. >> thank you. i have read more about you in the past few months than i have practically of any of the presidential candidates and politicians. how-how does it feel to get so much-- well, you've always had press, either pro or con during a-- during your years. you handle that well? i mean, can you live with the criticism when people get on ya? >> well, johnny, uh, sometimes it gets a little rough. >> yeah. >> but, uh, you know, uh, you gotta grin and bear it. >> yeah. >> but, uh, in the end, things seem to work out pretty good. let's talk about, uh, you've been fairly innovative in baseball, before we get into the controversy about what's really going on. are you-- you-you've came up with a designated, uh, hitter concept? >> designated hitter. >> right. >> which, i think, uh, has added a lot of action, and at the same time, interest

fell-fell into traditions, and people are reluctant sometimes to change anything in sports. they want it the way it always was, and they kind of hold to those concepts. >> well, i'm sorry to say, johnny, especially in baseball, that seems to be the problem that we've had. >> right. >> uh, but, huh, baseball's still a great game, and all we gotta do is make a few changes on it, and i think it would be back as the number one sport in the nation. >> right. right. >> uh, you were mentioning, uh, an innovation. what it was-- what i'm really proud about is that we started the world series games on saturday, game one and two on saturday and sunday, and then we play three games at night during the week. >> right. >> and this way it enables everyone, especially, today's children, who incidentally are tomorrow's baseball fans, where they'll be able to see the games-- all the world series games. >> this was your idea, because originally they started, uh, like in the middle of the week sometime, did they not? >> yes, that's exactly right. yes, i worked on this about 10

it past through baseball. >> now why would they fight you on that? that seems like a logical, constructive move. why would they say we don't wanna do that? >> john, for me, that's very an-- very easy for me to answer, uh, in one word-- stupidity. [ laughter ] >> he said, choosing his words carefully. uh, in other words, do you think they just get locked into old fashioned ideas and don't wanna make a change just for the sake of saying, "this is the way it was and this is the way it's gonna be?" >> unfortunately, johnny, that's been the trend, and i'm most hopeful that, uh, they'll wake up and start making some changes that, uh, is gonna be good for baseball. >> now, i just-- we just said a little briefly, before the show, and you showed me something that i know you're trying to, uh, get into baseball, and when you see this, the baseball purists will probably go, "my god, what is it?" now, if you have a color television set, this is a bright orange baseball, and of course, in baseball, the, uh, the baseballs have been white ever since baseball came into being, and you would like to change that. >> i sure would. >> why? and what--

with an alert orange baseball, number one, uh, you know, you gotta think about the fans. this will enable the fans to follow the flight of the ball much easier than a white ball. >> right. >> and number two, the hitters, they can see that ball coming out of that pitcher's white uniform much easier, and it's gonna enable the hitters to improve on their batting averages, uh, it's gonna put more action into the games, and the fans are gonna like it very much, but the pitchers, they despise the ball. >> why-why do they-- why don't they like it? >> well, because, uh, you just take this ball here, and there's-- may i? >> sure, sure. >> you know, i toss it out in the audience, and look there, somebody catch that-- look, they caught that without dropping it. >> because, it's, in other words, optically, it's easier to see. >> yes, it is. >> i think you get the feeling-- oh, i'm sure you-- one of your comments about baseball-- you figure that it's kind of stacked against the batter. >> yes, yes, it is, john. you take, uh, uh, football, you

eleven players against eleven. >> right. >> you go to a basketball game, there's five against five. hockey game, six against six. you go to a baseball game, there's nine against one. there's nine players out there on that field, and there's one fella that comes up to the plate with a little stick in his hand, and the nine guys gang up on him. you know? >> isn't that the idea of the game? i mean, i never looked at it that way. [ applause ] so this, you think by the introduction of this ball, that'll kinda give a-- it'll equalize it a little bit? >> well, uh, what i like to see baseball do is to, uh, balance the defense with the offense, and this is one way-- >> let me see that. that's-- >> this is one way that would help balance the, uh, offense with the defense. uh, another thing-- >> i remember when tennis went from the white tennis ball to the, uh, yellow tennis ball, and now the yellow tennis ball is almost universally used because optically it is easier to see than a white tennis ball. >> that is very true. and another thing, john, that i'd like to see baseball adopt,

strike three, and do away with the ball four, and briefly, i'd just like to tell you this. that when professional baseball first started, it started out with nine balls and five strikes. >> are you serious? >> i'm serious. >> now, that i didn't know. >> yeah, that was in eighteen-- 1878, and ten years-- >> well the pitcher must have been out there all day. >> well, they were. and as a matter of fact, in 1886, they-- by 1886, the gradually reduced it down to four balls and three strikes. now, that's 90 years ago. there's nothing been done before in balls and strikes in those 90 years. >> so you'd like to see three balls. >> i'd like to see three balls and three strikes. this will speed the game up, and it will-- it will force the pitcher to come in throwing strikes instead of wasting pitcher's pitches once it gets the hitter in the hole. >> what do you think about passing somebody or walking somebody with the four, uh-- where the catcher moves out and they just throw four balls to put 'em on first? >> i think that's the stupidest thing that baseball does is, you know, throw the ball-- [ applause ]

him on-- do they keep that in because they think possibly the batter might jump out and-and slug it. >> that's what they think, you know. >> but it's never done, is it? >> well, maybe once in a, uh, uh, hundred thousand times. you know, i-i think that, uh, if you're gonna walk a player, send a signal up, and send that fella right down to first base. >> let me take a break here, and we'll come back,

stay right where you are. [ music ] >> we are back. [ applause ] and we're, uh, here with us tonight is, uh, charles finley, owner of the oakland a's. we have george peppard, charles callas, and dr. jeffrey bourne. charles, let's get into this controversy a little bit. uh, what's going on in baseball. now, you have three ball players, uh, joe rudi, and rollie fingers, which you sold, and as i understand, they are-- they are working out their option on the time. this is their last year, right? >> well, supposedly, yeah. >> supposedly, yeah, and under the-- under the-- >> as a matter of fact, they haven't signed.

that, if a ball player exercises and finishes on hi-- then he becomes a free agent, and is able to sell his services to the highest bidder. >> right, right. >> now, what you did is that you sold them to the new york yankees, or to different teams, right? these three players, for a total of one point-- whatever-- >> a total-- for a total >> three and a half million dollars. now, the commissioner of baseball calls you into his office, and i understand you had a meeting, and he says, uh, he was going to veto that in the best interest of baseball, and protect the honor of the game, right? >> that's what he told me. >> i may be paraphrasing his words, but-- >> no, no, that's what he told me. >> now, why did he-- why did he stop the sale? >> well, you know, john, uh, it's pretty hard for me to, uh, figure that out. as a matter of fact, uh, i'm just anxious-- anxiously awaiting the time when he will tell it to the judge why he stopped it. >> oh, i see. that's right. you did file a ten million dollar lawsuit. now-- [ applause ]

of people, and some of this has been in the press, they say it's not fair that the professional team owners can buy and sale baseball players like-like cattle or chattel slaves, or so forth, and that the players should be free to, uh, to make their own deals, and should not be held-- in other words, bartered like cattle. how do you-- how do you feel about that? >> well, johnny, you know, ever since the history of the game, uh, players have been bought and sold. you go back to the days when babe ruth was sold from boston to the yankees. uh, uh, i recall dean, when he sold to the cubs, uh, for 185 thousand dollars. uh, 1934, joe cronin was sold to the boston red sox from washington. >> right. >> and at that time, he was sold for 250 thousand dollars. that 250 thousand dollars in 1954-- i mean, 1934 is worth one million, forty thousand dollars today. >> right. >> and there's, uh, ferguson chickens was sold for two hundred thousand dollars,

november, 1975, commissioner said nothing about that deal. a little later on, minnesota twins sold, uh, another player to texas for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, uh, and just last year, the, uh, uh, the san francisco giants sold dave kindman to the new york mets, who, incidentally-- for 160 thousand dollars. >> right. >> who incidentally is leading the major leagues with 26 home runs today. did the commissioner say anything about that? nothing at all. at let me take you one step further. in 1971, the oakland a's, if you please, paid the then washington senators three hundred thousand dollars for darold knowles and mike epstein. did the commissioner do anything about that? no. but when i sell three players myself, and, uh, for business reasons, plus the fact that i was gonna take that money and end up with a much stronger team

players who are playing out their options right now. and i was gonna have a stronger team in 1977 than i had start in 1976. as it stands right now, i'm gonna have nothing. >> so these players are not playing for anyone right now, right? >> well, they're playing for the a's, but i-i don't think that it's my property. the commissioner forced me to use these players after i sold them. >> so they are playing for-- >> yes, sir. >> now, what will happen at the end of the, uh, the end of the season? now is the up to they, uh, up to the courts, is it? >> well, it's-it's in the hands of the court, the federal court, uh, in chicago, and, uh, uh, we're very optimistic over our chances of winning this lawsuit. i might say that bowie kuhn is been the fifth commissioner in baseball, and never in the history of the game of baseball has a commissioner ever stepped in to stop a sale of a ball player. and why he stopped this one, as i say, let him tell it to the judge. >> yeah, you think it could be a

>> well, uh, yes, i really do. >> yeah. >> and it's quite unfortunate. uh, we had, uh-- i was fined one time in the world series in 1973, when we were playing the new york, uh, mets. we took a player that the doctor said, "don't play him," by the name of mike andrews. >> and the only thing i did was give the letter to the where the doctor said, "don't play mike andrews." he's physically unable to play anymore in the series. >> i remember that. >> "if you use him, you'll hurt him." i handed him that letter, and would you believe it, he fined me five thousand dollars, just because a doctor examined mike andrews and said that he was physically unable to play. and during that same world series, i was fined another two thousand dollars because it got so dark out there the, uh, empire forgot to turn the lights on, and i-i totally-- sent word up to the electrician to turn the lights on, and when i did, the umpire jumped up like he'd been shocked.

so i was fined $2,000 for that, but let me say this: at the end of the season, baseball changed their rules to where the lights can be turned on at any time, not at the end of an inning. so i got fined $2,000 for that. and in the same world series, get fined another $1,000 because-- we only used 24 players, and i wanted to make an announcement to the fans that we were playing with 24, and the mets had 25. so i got fined $1,000 for making the announcement. >> you know, you better-- [ laughter ] you better-- charles, you better win this lawsuit, just to pay your fines. [ laughter ] i mean, it just keeps up like this. >> well, let me-- >> how do you-- go ahead now. >> i'd just like to add one other thing, too. talking about the commissioner having a personal vendetta. i don't like to sit here and make these accusations, but you asked me a question, johnny, and, uh-- i'm a little forthright, you know? >> yup. [ laughter ] >> at one time, reggie jackson, several years back in his career, when he was having trouble with his timing,

triple-a, just for ten days. and reggie wanted to go down too, for that ten days. commissioner kuhn gets in touch with me, and he says "hey, you can't send him down." he said he read it in the paper that i was possibly gonna send him down. he says, "you can't send him down. it won't be in the best interests of baseball." so i told him off, and after telling him off, i got fined $500 for that. >> fined $500. [ laughter ] i was-- i was just gonna make a guess that you were fined for that. i don't know why. how do you answer some of the questions-- and then the press brings it up occasionally, they say that, uh-- only the very rich-- in other words, you could buy a pennant. one town could go out, or an owner who's very, very wealthy, and buy all of the best players, and therefore, because of their-- better financial position, could cripple the other teams. is there any validity to that at all? >> no john, i don't think so. i think that's all here say, because tom yawkey, who has-- i don't know of anyone who's more wealthy in baseball than tom yawkey. he's been in there about 40

buy a world championship for all those years, and he's never been successful in doing it. uh-- this is a commercial, saying that i was breaking up my team. in reality, all i was doing was making it stronger, for the start of 1977. it's awfully hard to go out and buy ballplayers. the competition is just too tough. >> you think that the salaries are getting exorbitant, or out of line? because it's really not the players that set the salaries, is it? when you come right down to it. it's the law of supply and demand. i suppose the superstars, they can command x number of dollars, and if they bring those people into the ballpark, um-- >> johnny, really, the reason for these-- in my opinion-- astronomical, unjustified salaries for athletes today-- it's not-- it's not the athletes, believe me. it's these stupid owners-- [ chuckling ] that go out and offer that kind of money. >> well, you're an owner. >> yes i am, but i don't go out throwing my money down the drain like some of the others do, because in the first place, i can't afford it.

have the money, i think i'd be much smarter than to pour it down the drain that way. >> are the oakland a's making money? >> uh, well let me put it this way-- >> how long have you had the a's now? >> uh, this is my 16th year, and i'm happy to tell you that in the 16 years that i've owned the club, we spend a lot of money to produce championship teams. we haven't made any big money, but by spending our money wisely, if i may put it that way, we've been able to stay in the black. not very much, but we're in the black, and we hope we can stay in the black. >> good. all right, we have a couple more questions. we'll do this first, and then we'll be right back.

[ applause ] [ applause ] >> we are back. i always wanna-- before we bring george peppard out, i just wanna get one thing clear in my mind. at the end of the year, these ballplayers could leave your club and be open to open bidding anyway, right? in other words, you could lose them if you did not pay the salary that they requested.

>> in other words, if rollie fingers said, "i want a million dollars," you would say, "hey, i can't afford a million," and he could go >> it's that simple. he can go out and sell his services to another club. >> so really, what you're doing, in effect, is-- selling him before-- not knowing whether you'll have him or not, right? >> that's-- it's that simple. >> right. so, this-- you hope this goes to court, i assume, so that there will be a definite decision made on whether the owners have that right? or-- >> johnny, we're going to court, and it's scheduled to-- in federal court to-- first week in august. >> well, i-- i hope you come back and report, and we'll probably read it-- but i'd like to get your version anyway. incidentally, can you be fined for being on this show tonight? [ laughter ] i'd like you to do something where you wouldn't be fined. >> johnny, i probably will be. [ laughter ] >> we'll take it to court, and i'll fight it. it's fascinating. stay with us tonight, will ya? i'd like you to meet the rest of the people. george peppard is here tonight. currently he's working on a film called damnation alley. and i think he just was-- wound up on the set to be with us tonight. would you welcome george peppard. george?

[ music ] [ applause ] >> hello, george. >> we have our birthday boy with us. >> yeah, doc-doc's birthday today. >> yes-yes. >> you a baseball fan? >> uh, yes-yes. >> you follow this, uh, you follow this discussion at all? >> i'm, um-- yes, indeed. i was watching very carefully, and, uh-uh, there were temptations when you were getting to the, uh, red balls there. >> orange. orange. >> orange, uh, but i resisted them. >> i-i-i'm glad you did. >> because we haven't used those in show business in years. >> what do you mean? >> well, it actually, in the kind of picture i'm working on now, it's kind of a science fiction thing. >> right. >> and, uh-- >> you use orange baseballs in the picture? >> well, no, but orange-- different kind of colors. it's just kind of obvious that your eye shoots right to the, uh, dif-different color-colored object, and yeah, i think it's a great idea. >> thank you, thank you,

[ applause ] >> you didn't have this little, uh, tumbleweed before when you were here, did ya? >> no-no-no, actually-- >> is that for the-- i assume that's for the picture. i can't imagine you growing that to-to look good. [ laughter ] oh, i do this to him all the time. >> no-no, i do know john, and it's nice to be back on a quality show. [ laughter ] but sometimes i wake up at night and i think, "somebody's been putting hair on my upper lip." i-i g-grew it for a part in a picture, and personally it's not, uh, something i enjoy, but the character enjoys it. >> well, why don't you-you put on the pasty? >> well, because every time you smile it goes "pop", you know, and it looks funny. >> it take away from the legitimacy of the picture, doesn't it, when you smile and it curls up? [ laughter ] >> well, they can always re shoot it, but you know, if-if you put on a-on a regular paste on mustache and you go like this, the whole thing goes... you can't do it. >> i was just recalling now, i did for a brief time on

years ago, replacing tom yule. and they had a mustache in the first scene, and then later on he pretended to shave it off, and as you did it with an electric razor you peeled it off. and i remember once during the first half of the thing, it started-- the perspiration got under the glue and it started to curl. and it's the worst feeling in the world because at least in a movie you can stop and paste it back, but in a live show you feel like an idiot going around and you see this thing and it's going flick, and you hear the little titters from the audience going... [ snickering ] and there's nothing you can do, and you're going, "my dear!" and it's-- so, that's why you grow the real one? >> i guess you kind of find ways >> what do you play in this picture to have to have the mustache? >> well, um-- >> you almost look like a storm trooper a little bit. >> thanks. thanks, john. i thought i looked more like william faulkner, or something. >> well, that's true. >> um, but, uh, well, the character is a military man. yeah, and he's, uh, a major. >> on our side? >> yes. >> okay, good. >> oh, absolutely. he's a-- as a matter of fact, he's a major in, uh, the missile

science fiction. um, he-- and he's the kind of fella that just does everything straight down the line. >> have you ever been in one of those missile silos? >> no, i saw some film on it. >> they're fascinating, i guess. >> have you? >> no, i haven't. i guess they don't take civilians through them, but i've seen pictures of them. >> well, actually our-our people did get down, uh, to see a lot of it, and it's, uh, it's very interesting because you have to have two people and they are both armed. >> yeah, they did a documentary one night, and if one goes bananas they have instruction to shoot the other person, do they not? >> yeah, they both carry pistols. >> that's gotta be a wonderful tour of duty. sitting down there looking at each other for eight hours a day wondering if the other guy's gonna do ya in. >> well, that-- what they do is they run ya in through these-- they run through these drills all the time. they run them right down to where they have to-- they go up and take the keys out of a box and put them in locks, and they both have to turn them at the same time. >> they each have a different key, right? >> yeah, and they have to double check everything. and that's just to see-- nobody can go bananas. >> what was the movie though where something did go bananas though? "7 days"? no, that was another one. >> well, as a matter of fact,

>> dr. strangelove. >> well, it was a very-- damn near impossible to do. at any rate, the picture starts there and from there on we go across country through this alley from new mexico to albany. do you ever play albany? >> what do you mean, did i-- did i ever work there? >> did you ever work in albany? >> no. >> no? well, neither did i. [ laughter ] but the whole idea of going to albany in show business. >> would i like albany? i mean... >> i don't know, john, but in our picture we're starting in new mexico and-- >> have you ever played in mexico? >> yes-yes, i've played in new mexico. no, not mexico. >> i see. >> anyway, uh, major denton, i figured had a mustache. >> oh, major denton? >> that is my character, and i-i made him a southern, uh, officer. >> did you do the southern, uh-- >> do i do a southern accent, john? yes, i do. and, uh, jan-michael vincent plays the other officer

southern accent like? >> john, i just did the southern accent. you weren't listening yet. >> oh, i didn't hear it. >> i see, well, you're not listening again. >> if i said, "major denton, are the silos ready?" how would you-- how would you answer that? >> yes, sir. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> four years in acting class for, "yes, sir." [ laughter ] "yes, sir," i mean... >> and another three years at strausberg. [ laughter ] >> okay-okay, well, anyway, you're on the way-- >> you do a southern accent. >> "yes, sir." [ laughter ] >> you know what? no, it's a little heavy on the "sir." >> "welcome to our little plantation here." >> yeah? >> "the magnolia-- >> "oh, my god, they are." >> "do the name ruby begonia mean anything to ya?" no, uh, getting off the subject now. >> no, this is a little more subtle than that, john. >> all right. don't tell me how the picture comes out. >> i won't, no. >> i have to sell something, i'm getting a message from brenda. >> that's a victory message.

>> excuse me. [ applause ] but first a message from johnson wax, makers of fine products

[ cheering ] [ music ] [ applause ] >> we are back. it wasn't my idea to hit you in the head with a baseball. >> no, that's quite all right, john. i'm much better now. [ laughter ] no, you know, every time i come on your show, i'm getting ready and i'm in the dressing room and i put on my clothes and i look in the mirror, and i think, "boy, you look weird. you really look weird." the last time i was on here i had long hair. >> yeah, but you dropped some weight since the last time you were here. >> 22 pounds, but that doesn't really matter because, you know, i'm used to going on a stage as somebody else. >> i see what you mean, as a character. >> i don't-i don't sing or dance, or whatever, and about the only time i ever do anything is on your show or somebody else's, and that's not that often. >> aren't you happy when you look in the mirror with what you see? >> no, i look in the mirror and i think, "boy, he looks weird. who is that?" and i think,

and i think, "oh"-- >> can i have your autograph? do you say that? >> no, but it's different because, you know, i'm looking-i'm looking at a character mustache that i wouldn't wear. if i had a mustached i'd have a little-- kind of a-- i'd spruce it up a little bit. >> one of those jobs? >> well, not necessarily, but something. uh, and i'm lookinat the character, except now that i'm not the character and there i am just kind of standing there. so, i always kind of feel a little weird. >> wouldn't he look great in movies? >> yes, i was looking at him, you know, he-he's almost as gray as we are. >> he looks like a dressed extra. one of those distinguished gentlemen you see, uh, at the p-parties always. right? >> well, i don't know. do you come from the south? >> i was born and raised in the south, george. i-i caught that when i was listening to you. >> that's right. >> i don't know anything worse than an irishman from the south. [ laughter ] no wonder he's so famous a-a-as a rebel. >> yeah. h-how'd you drop 22 pounds? did you want to? >> uh, yes, i wanted to. >> you went on some diet, or... >> what? well, i did the best i could. two steps forward, one step back.

i played a lot of tennis for a while. i wish i coulda caught you then, carson. oh, i was a tiger, ha-ha. i haven't played in weeks now. now you'll call me. >> yeah. but did you just-- did you cut back on the calories? >> yeah, vegetables and meat, and finally i got into a fish diet. i found that fish is really a-- >> everyday you mean? >> yeah, everyday. and you feel a lot better. i mean, i'm not a food faddist. i mean, the people that say they went to vegetarian i really can't understand it. without a piece of steak or chicken, or something. i-i-i'd probably go bananas, but-- >> you can go to extremes. >> yeah, but when people say they went on to a vegetable diet, their whole vibration, or whatever, changes, and, uh, i found that eating fish, which i like. i mean, shrimp and all kinds of good-- >> well, you're lookin' super. >> thank you. >> is the picture soon to be over so you can shave that off? >> well, listen, i would like to say one thing about this picture because it's an unusual occurrence. >> oh, i get it, i interrupted you. you were on your way to new mexico and i-- >> no, it's not that,

of the picture. it's just that most the time in pictures you do one of two things. >> either the dishes, or what? [ laughter ] >> it's hot in here. i'm hot. >> oh, goodness. i thought maybe you thought your-- i thought maybe you thought you were on your o-old show and they were gonna operate or something. you know how you get caught up in the character? >> no, but you know, when you're-when you're-when you're on a picture, normally, you either make a good picture, or you have a good time. it seems like you get one or the other. >> yeah. >> and this is one of those rare occurrences which i think we're doing both. >> having a good time and making a good picture? >> yeah, but it's a-it's an entertaining, fun picture and things are working out right. we've got jack smight, who dir-just directed, um, "midway" and "airport 2" and several others. i have known him for a long time. a wonderful man who keeps a happy set. >> yes, happy set is a-- >> oh, well. >> happy times. >> well... now, are you still awake, john? >> sure. sure, i'm awake. >> okay. >> when-when-when would one if one wants to see this picture, when would one might see it?

when they're gonna put it out. i mean-- >> well, he gets in for nothing, but how 'bout the rest of us? [ laughter ] [ applause ] whenever it comes out. okay. we'll, uh-- you're a cute devil with that mustache, really. we'll, uh-- >> no more baseball. >> well, yes, sir. yes, sir. four years in strausberg. can you juggle? >> no, not really. do you do it? >> sure. >> go 'head. >> oh, sure. you ever learn to juggle? >> there's two. >> two? anybody can do two. every actor should learn how to juggle. you see, because it's-- >> hey-hey! [ cheering ] [ applause ] we'll be right back after this.

long, but you should juggle. [ music ] >> you were speaking of science fiction and speaking of science fiction brings to mind charlie callas. if-- charlie definitely comes from some other planet. he's a very funny man. he's in the new mel brooks film called "silent movie". he's a regular on the tv series "switch", in october-- august the 17th. he opens at the hilton hotel in las vegas. would you welcome crazy charles callas? [ music ] [ applause ] >> good evening, and welcome. [ laughter ]

little song if i may. collin. [ music ] straighten up and fly right-- eh, that's enough. good evening. [ applause ] the, uh, the olympics are going to be held in montreal, canada. this is some-- ah, canada. and i'm going to enter. i am going as a dot. [ laughter ] i am going to enter the, uh, the decathlon. decathlon are ten events, i can only go for three. the, um, the first one is what they call the hammer throw. this-- you ever see a fat greyhound? this, um... [ laughter ] this is the, um, hammer throw. athlete comes out with a 17 pound steel ball tied onto a chain. he's gotta fling it over his head and throw it for so many hundreds of feet.