widespread fraud. the governors of every state in the nation, republicans and democrats certified the 2020 election results and sent a legal slate of electors to congress for january 6. senator vance, you have said you would not have certified the last presidential election and would have asked the states to submit alternative electors that has been called unconstitutional and illegal. would you again seek to challenge this year's election results? even if every governor certifies the give you 2 minutes. >> laura, first of all, i think that we're focused on the future. we need to figure out how to solve the inflation crisis caused by kamala harris's policies. make housing affordable, make groceries affordable. and that's what we're focused on by winning. answer your question because you did ask it. look, what president trump has said is that there were problems in 2020 and my own belief is that we should fight about those issues. debate. those issues peacefully in the public square and that's alive

said. and that's of that. donald trump has said remember, he said that on january, the 6th, the protesters all to protest peacefully. and on january, the 20th what happened, joe biden became the president. donald trump left the white house and now, of course, unfortunately we have all of the negative policies that have come from the harris biden administration. i believe that we actually do have a threat to democracy in this country. but unfortunately, it's not the threat to democracy that kamala harris and tim walz want to talk about. it is the threat of censorship. it's americans casting aside a lifelong friendships because of disagreements over politics. it's big technology companies silencing their fellow citizens. and it's kamala harris saying that rather than debate and persuade her fellow americans, she'd like to censor people who engage in misinformation. i think that is a much bigger threat to democracy than anything that we've seen in this country in the last 4 years in the last 40 years. now, i'm really proud, especially given that i was raised by 2 lifelong blue collar democrats to have the

endorsement of bobby kennedy junior and tulsi gabbard, lifelong leaders in the democratic coalition. of course, they don't agree with me and donald trump on every issue. we don't have to agree on every issue, but we are united behind a basic american first amendment principle that we ought to debate our differences. we had argue about the will to try to persuade our fellow americans. kamala harris is engaged in censorship at an industrial scale. she did it during covid. she's done it over a number of other issues. and that to me is a much bigger threat to democracy. then what donald trump said when he said the protesters to peacefully protest on january. the 6th governor. well, i've enjoyed tonight's debate. i think it was a lot of commonality here and i'm i'm sympathetic to ms speaking on things that i think i might have with the with. the senator. but team >> there's one know that this with this one is troubling to me. and i say that because i think we need to tell the story. donald trump refused to acknowledge this. and the fact is, is that i don't think we can be the frog in the boiling water go up. he was very clear. i mean, he lost this election and he said he

didn't. 140 police officers were beaten at the capitol that day. some with the american flag. several later died and it wasn't just in there minnesota, a group gathered on the state capitol grounds in saint paul and said we're marching to the governor's residence and there may be casualties. the only person there was my son and his dog was rushed out crying by state police. that issue and mike pence standing there as they were chanting, hang mike pence, mike pence made the right decision. so senator, it was adjudicated over and over and over. i work with kids long enough to know and i said is a football coach. sometimes you really want to win. but the democracy is bigger than winning an election. you shake hands and then you try and do everything you can to help the other side. that's that's what was at stake here. now, the thing i'm most concerned about is the idea that. imprisoning your. your political opponent already laying the groundwork for people not accepting this. and the president's words

matter. a president's words matter. people hear that. so. this issue of settling our differences at the ballot box shaking hands. when we lose being honest about it. but to deny what happened on january 6th, the first time in american history. that a president or anyone tried to overturn up fair election and the peaceful transfer of power. and here we are 4 years later in the same boat. i will tell you this that when this is over, we need to shake hands. this election and the winner needs to be the winner. this has got to stop its tearing the country apart. senator vance, did you want to respond to that? it will look at first of all. >> it's really rich for democratic leaders to say that donald trump is a unique threat to democracy. >> when he peacefully gave over power on january. the 20th, as we have done for 250 years in this country, we're going to shake hands after

this debate in after the selection. of course, i hope that we win and i think we're going to win. but if tim wall says the next vice president, he'll have my prayers. so have my best wishes. and have my help whenever he wants it. but we have to remember that for years in this country, democrats protest of the results of elections. hillary clinton in 2016 said that donald trump had the election stolen by vladimir putin because the russians ball like $500,000 worth of facebook ads. this has been going on for a long time. and if we want to say that we need to respect the results of the election, i'm on board. but if we want to say it's tim also saying that this is just a problem that republicans have had, i don't buy that. governor january 6 was not facebook ads. and i think of revisionist history on this. look, i i. >> don't understand how we got to this point. but the issue was that happen. donald trump can do it in all of there's no place for this. it has massif repercussions. this idea that their center ship to stop people from doing threatening

to kill someone threatening, do something. that's not that's not censorship. censorship is book banning. we've seen that we've seen that brought up. i just think for everyone tonight and not coming up. thanks, senator bands. i think this is the conversation they want to hear. and i think there's a lot of agreement this is one that we are miles apart on. this was a threat to our democracy in a way that we had not seen and it manifested itself because of donald trump's inability saying he is still saying he didn't lose the election. i would just add he lose the 2020 election. tim, i'm focused on the future. did kamala harris since are americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020? >> covid situation you and i know that is a damning non-answer that she it's a damning on answer for you to not talk about censorship. obviously, donald trump and i think that there were problems in 2020. we've talked about it. i'm happy to talk about it further. but you guys attack us for not believing in democracy. the most sacred right under the united states.

democracy is the first amendment. you yourself have said there's no first amendment right to misinformation. kamala harris wants government and big tech to silence people from speaking their minds. that is a threat to democracy that will long outlive this present political moment. i would like kratz and republicans to both reject censorship. let's persuade one another. let's argue about ideas. and then let's come together afterwards. you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. that's that's the test. that supreme court asked tim fire in a crowded theater. you guys wanted to kick people off of facebook for saying toddlers should center about had a floor start a fire in a crowded theater that is criticizing the policies of the government, which is the right of every american center. the governor does have the floor for one minute to respond to you. yeah. well. i don't run facebook. what i do know is is i see a candidate out there who refused and now again in this, i'm pretty shocked by this. he lost the election. this is not a debate. it's not it's not

anything anywhere. >> other than ian donald trump's world. because look. with mike pence made that decision to certify that election. that's why mike pence isn't on this stage. what i'm concerned about is where is the firewall with donald trump? where is the firewall? if he knows he could do anything including? taking an election and vice president's not going to stand to. that's what we're asking you. america. will you stand up? will you keep your oath of office even if the president doesn't? and i think kamala harris would agree she went to pick me if she didn't think i would do that because of course, that's what we would do. so america, i think you've got a really clear choice on the selection of who's going on or that democracy and who's going on or donald trump. governor, your time is up. thank you, gentlemen. >> we will be right back with both of our candidates, the cbs news, vice presidential. >> debate continues.

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>> welcome back to cbs news. vice presidential debate is now time for the closing statement. senator vance won the virtual coin toss and elected to go last. so governor walz, you are first. you have 2 minutes. well, thank you. senator brown's, thank you to cbs news and most importantly. >> thank you to all of you. if you're still up and the folks who missed an sing with their stars, i appreciate it. but look, the support of the democracy matters. it matters that you're here surprises anybody of this coalition that kamala harris is built from bernie sanders to cheney to taylor swift and a whole bunch of folks in between there and they don't all agree on

everything, but they are truly optimistic. people. they believe in a positive future of this country. and one where politics can better than it is. and i have to tell you that that better than it is is the sense of optimism that there can be an opportunity economy. that works for everyone not just to get by, but to get ahead. and the idea that freedom really means something, not the freedom of government to be in your bedroom or exam room, but the freedom for you to make choices about yourself. now, look, we all know who donald trump. yes, he's told us. and as maya angelou said, believe him when he told you that his first inaugural address talked about american carnage and then sport spent 4 years trying to maybe do that. senator vance tonight made it clear he will stand with donald trump's agenda. he will continue to push down that road. excuse me. kamala harris gives us a different option. now have to tell you, i'm going to be careful about the courts, but there's one that senator vance said that does

resonate with me. he said donald trump makes the people i care about afraid. a lot of america feels that way. we don't need to be afraid. franklin roosevelt was right. all as we have to fear is fear itself. kamala harris is bringing us a new way forward. she's bringing us a politics of joy. she's bringing real solutions for the middle class and she centering you at the heart of that. all the while asking everyone join this heard. let's look for a new - day where everybody gets that opportunity and everybody gets a chance to thrive. i humbly ask for your vote on november 5th for kamala harris. >> governor walz, thank you. senator vance, your closing statement. >> well, think governor waltz you folks at cbs and of course, the american people for tuning in this evening, one of the issues we did talk about was energy. and i remember when i was being raised by my grandmother when she didn't have enough money to turn on the heat some nights because ohio gets pretty cold at night and because money was often very

tight. and i believe as a person wants to be your next vice president that we are rich and prosperous enough country where every american, whether they're rich or poor ought to be able to turn on their heat in the middle of a cold winter night. that's got more difficult. thanks to kamala harris's energy policies. i believe that whether you're rich or poor, you ought to be able to afford a nice meal for your family that's gotten harder because of kamala harris's policies. i believe that whether you're rich or poor, you ought to be able to afford to buy a house. he ought to be able to live in safe neighborhoods. he ought to not have your communities flooded with fentanyl. and that too has gotten harder with college because of kamala harris's policies. now i've been in politics long enough to do what kamala harris does when she stands before the american people in says that on day one, she's going to work on all these challenges. i just listed she's been the vice president for 3 and a half years. day one was 1400 days ago and her policies have made these problems worse. the i believe that we have the most beautiful country in the

world. i meet people on the campaign trail who can't afford food but have the grace and generosity to ask me how i'm doing. and to tell me they're praying for my family. what that is taught me is that we have the greatest country, the most beautiful country, the most incredible people anywhere in the world. but they're not going to be able to achieve their full dreams with the broken leadership that we have in washington. they're not going to be able to live their american dream. if we do the same thing that we've been doing for the last 3 and a half years, we need change. we need a new direction. we need a president who has already done this once before and did it well, please vote for donald trump and whether you vote for me or vote for tim walz. i just want to say i'm so proud to be doing this burden for you. god bless you. and good night. >> senator vance, thank you and thank you both for participating in the only vice presidential debate of this election cycle. i'm margaret brennan. >> i'm norah o'donnell and reminder there are just 35 days until election day.

please get out and vote. and for all of us here at cbs news, thank and good night. >> hello, everybody. thank you so much for joining us for our special coverage of the vice presidential debate. i'm catherine heenan and we just heard from the governor, tim waltz, ohio senator jd vance,

both of them trying to sell their running mates land a few punches, maybe avoid any big mistakes. and joining me to talk about what was probably the last debate of the season is our panel. let's turn to donna crane, san jose state political lecturer jonathan madison. jonathan is former vice chair of the bay area republican party david mchugh in chair of the political science department at sonoma state university. thank you for being here. i thought it was interesting and midway through it. jonathan new said it's the grown-up debate. what did that mean? absolutely him. and we heard a debate a couple of weeks ago and sound like children talking about the size of crowds at their campaign events, all kinds of things >> this one, just sounded like there were 2 adults in the room and they had command the attention. the american people, they were genuine. i believe we had a discussion about that. and in fact, if you're republican, you probably did what i did halfway through the debate and i looked over, david, i said. who's on the presidential

ticket for the i mean, jd vance is clearly the future, but he's than now to i mean, i really forgot at one point that he was the frontrunner for the president. so definitely an adult discussion. they talked about policy, talked about law. wasn't these gimmicks and entertainment. so i really i really appreciate the spirited debate. >> donna, you were kind of just agreeing early. where i think we disagree is that we both noticed and were struck by how often each contender said to the i agree with that's an interesting that's a hefty sum i like it. you it was sort of a compliment society and that was refreshing and different. and to some extent, it was the antithesis of the presidential debates that we've seen in the last couple of cycles. but i think where we disagree is perhaps all be the the senate and say that it's it's very clear to me having been part of some of these kinds of teams for events like this,

they understand that this is that's what the american public wants to hear. the american public is exhausted by the hyper partisanship and by the personal attacks and the platitudes. and i think each of them was looking to vie for the public's favor. >> by being sort of, you the gentle lady from the gentleman lab, really people like totally buying a david that. i think if you pan out from this, right, it's this debate is an important element a very close campaign, but not sustained. >> so at the 35,000 foot level, there's this element of what sticks, what goes on. it is a policy discussion. not as many zingers. okay. but what last from here there is a austin that's going on with folks. >> but you also have to cut through that. and i think in that sense, it helps jd vance be more of the aggressor while coach waltz is kind of, if you will, that that minnesota kind of normalcy and that doesn't quite hold and vance, therefore, doesn't necessarily

look as based on some of the comments he's had the past. so he looks more presidential i guess, near the and governor, while several enjoyed the debate on like he enjoyed the debate. when is the last time? i mean, no one has ever spent point, even if there's a scrap with their of civility to hang onto. i like that, ok, kind of going off something you said, jonathan. >> vice presidential candidates often become presidential candidates. could we look at this debate as an audition tape for a future presidential candidate? yes, yes, we can. >> i think each of them had a job to do tonight. i think jd vance needed to sand down the mean reputation. he's already smart. he's known to be a good debater. so he brought that game, but he sounded much more moderate and much more collegial impolite. so i think he advanced himself in that way for the long term. i think relatively unknown to most americans. and so he needed to

present himself as knowledgeable to instill in people a sense of confidence that he that he can work at such a high level of government and to to discuss issues beyond the few issues that are local or parochial to minnesota, you know, to talk about big-picture economic issues to talk about foreign policy issues and i think each of them accomplish what they needed to do. jonathan? yeah, i agree with a lot of that. i think jd vance was able to do something that a lot of candidates just don't have, which is able to tell a story. and at the red hillbilly elegy, which amazing book. >> he was able to heard in some one-line zingers tonight. he talked about the people who are phds out there but don't know common sense. i mean, he was able to connect with people in their lot of people out there that look at people with these phd's and high degrees. what do they know or it's it's a foreign language with the talking. so vance was able to really 'onnect with a lot of voters for middle class

and the working class, that it's difficult for a lot of republicans to do that. so i think he used to storytelling ability to connect with a lot of voters. it won't be the last time we see you. >> so jd vance began a lot of his sentences with i the product of a middle-class family. he talked about the single mother and the drug addiction and then would pivot to something else. but he started that regardless of the topic many times, then you cast over to to coach waltz. and you look at the governor and i think democrats, kamala harris clearly has fundamentally changed the race and close the race. but on the issue of like, for example, the economy, they're able to get so close. but still, donald trump is in the lead on that because democrats don't have a good defense and advancement of where they stand. despite where the stock markets at, despite their gains, despite what's happened in the turnaround inflation, they're getting close, but not quite there. and that's i think how coach well set so tim waltz that tonight close, but not quite there.

>> all right. you i didn't want to play a little bit of sound even though we don't have time. moderator stone always persist. but tonight we saw one of pushing. governor was about a misstatement about whether he was hong kong during tenement square and he wasn't and he answered by talking about a small town roots and she went back and she said not. what i ask so i look, let's hear that. >> governor, just to follow up on that. the question was, can you explain the knowledge of and see all as i said on this was i got there that summer and misspoke on this. so i i will just that's what i've sent. so i was in. kong and china during the democracy protests went and from that, i learned a lot of >> what needed to be in in governance. thank you, governor. >> all right. david, i'm going to start with have to not mess up tonight as well as maybe make some points. i don't know. was that significant? it was a little didn't handle that. well, we talked about

this. you say, look, i messed up, you move on, you put it behind you. you're going see should not have answered it that way. done. close the chapter. move on. >> when he proceed at that whole question with about 2 and a half minutes. so i came from this family. i was from this block in this neighborhood. and then she finally had to say that that was thing in the clip. and everybody was just the room saying just just admit it was a misstep, mistaken. the american people like when somebody does owns up to the responsibility, kicked and it's easier to do so easy for me say. but this is such this was such a self-inflicted wound. i just hate as a person who loves art of politics. i hate to see a practice badly. it is just not hard. >> to clean up a mess like this and he's making it worse for himself by just for whatever reason. i don't know if it's pride or not simply saying, oh, my gosh, i got the month wrong. next question. >> we green and then maybe we're not. that vance was more polished, a seemingly for the most part, more comfortable.

>> i think that the agenda that he has selling and talking about comes across even lee in a more moderate tone in this environment. that was his task. he has come across as somewhat angry, anti-establishment. you know, it doesn't like the university professor thing, whatever that's fine. but but he's come off as aggressive against animals and all this kind of stuff. he was like that tonight. there were moments on the discussion of abortion, which was extended. i think. >> long-running and on health care. like 12 minutes. yeah, that that was really deep and needy about. there's a lot of things there. but overall, he did a on balance a little bit better. this all gets lost in ether, may i add to that, though? i agree with you. 100% until the last exchange about january i actually thought that jd vance lost almost all the advantages that he had accrued throughout an otherwise excellent debate

performance. >> by clinging to this untenable position that they that trump did not lose the race in 2020 and going even further and saying that he won't promise all certified the results if his team loses this. this is the fate of democracy in the balance and the fact that he cannot he cannot see way forward to find those words. it was. was i thought maybe the most compelling moment of the debate. all right. well, since you bring up compelling moments, i'm going to get you to and to tell jonathan, what's resonating for you? >> you know, and just clarification about i did hear him at the end of that knowledge that he would, you know, have that, you know. >> historical approach to use different we would, you cam's yet shake hands and it's important president. just want to clarify that. >> i think one of the most memorable moments from me was jd vance approach just talking about the economy and basic concepts covid numbers. he really just boiled it down. the american people and in an

incredible way and he did. he did so in a way where he did not bashes opponent, which is all we've been hearing from these debates. all the we've been hearing from this election cycle. so his ability to do that under this kind of pressure, this kind of environment, his first time on this kind of stage, it speaks volumes. >> the maine guide, the big boss, his job in the second debate. the one of kamala harris was to tie her to everything with the biden administration over and over and over again. >> and he didn't do that because his ego got in the way this man or got in the way she was able to take him off his game because she did a great job. but tonight, jd vance, every question when it wasn't about his middle class upbringing and the struggles of that, it was a link back to tie in waltz to harris. and that wasn't the biden administration. it was the kamala harris at and that repeated kind of hard-hitting component is what you expect out of a vice presidential candidate. and that's where he was little more successful

than kamala harris. okay. as up vice presidential candidate to all right. you know probably that wasn't probably no more debating and certainly no more. i would listen to another debate between these 2. absolutely. do we all agree? yeah, i mean, it was actually kind class even if we didn't totally buy everything. >> so alright, i didn't hit on it for what happened at the end. and jett 16 of pay per view to okay that perhaps up our special live coverage of the vice presidential debate. thank you guys for doing this. have a have a good night. then. now.