and his lawyer said you know jack only thought he was going to slapped on the wrist on this. and in a couple of weeks or so be at the carousel club shaking the hands of people from around the world who wanted to shake the hands of the man who killed the man who killed the president. and we do know that ruby from his jail cell, sent out messages that he wanted an agent for a book and a movie about him. so he thought he was going to become a hero. and by the way he did get letters and telegrams from world congratulating him and telling, telling him that he was a great man..

? music ? we continue our look back at the kennedy assassination 50 years later. and we continue my conversation with famed prosecutor vincent bugliosi who wrote a 1600 page book on

reclaiming history. here bugliosi talks about the third shot, the fatal shot that killed the president. seen on the zapruder film, it seemed that the president's head snapped backwards and to the left indicating that he was shot from the front and the right. if true, oswald could not have acted alone. but bugliosi says, frame by frame, the zapruder film shows something very different. >> if you look at the individual frames of the zapruder film you cannot see it at all if you look athe film. you have to look at the individual frames which i put on the screen for the jury. at frame 312, the president's head is okay. at frame 313, one-18th of a second later, the president is struck in the head. you can see the explosion to his head. and in what direction is the president's head pushed at frame 313? slightly forward, 2.3 inches.

of impact, the president's head is pushed forward, indicating the shot from the rear where oswald wawas, not backwards, indicating a shot from the grassy knoll. and then at frames 314 to 321, you have his head snap to the rear of eight inches. the house select committee said it was caused by a neural muscular reaction. nerve damage caused by the bullet entering the presen caused his back muscles to tighten which in turn caused his head to be pushed backwards. now there's a high-contrast photo put out by i-tech corporation in 1967, four years after the warren commission, with technology they didn't have at the time of the warren commission, and it shows the terrible spray of brain matter at frame 313.

slightly forward. again indicating a shot from the rear where oswald was. >> the magic bullet. this is bullet number two. shot from the book depository. people say that bullet could not have caused all that damage. couldn't have hit the president in the back, exited his throat, gone through the limo jump seat into connally, into his ribs, into his wrist, into his thigh, couldn't have done it. what do you say? >> firearms experts for the house select committee and t warren -- and the warren commission both said -- both concluded that that bullet could very definitely have caused the damage that it did without sustaining any more deformity to itself. connally was not seated directly in front of kennedy in the presidential limousine, he was seated to his left front in a jump seat. and in... ah, so when the bullet exited the front of the president's throat, it had to go on and

it had nowhere else to go. so if you believe what the conspiracy theorists said, apparently after that bullet exited the front of the president's throat, it vanished without a trace into thin air. so, who's got the magic bullet? >> let me throw a couple more at you. oswald could not have pulled off the shots in that amount of time. he wasn't a good enough shot and he didn't have enough time to pull it off and get three shots off and even hit his target true or false? >> so only one out of the three shots hit the president in the head, which was the target. and also, like i told you, he was a good shot. he wasn't an expert. but he fired a 212 in the military which would make him a sharpshooter. now as far as the difficulty of doing what he did -- and what he did was not that great, only one out of three hit the target -- it wasn't that difficult.

been duplicated. well of course it's never been duplicated. how could you have someone firing at a human being? however, under the closest simulation process available, several people have not only matched oswald, but have beaten oswald, including my firearms expert from wisconsin. >> if this weren't a president at the other end of these bullets, would this have been an open and shut murder case? >> to this very day, as i'm talking to you, this is a very simple case at its core. however, there's a second reality here. because of the unceasing and fanatical obsession of thousands upon thousands of warren commission critics and conspiracy theorists who will put this case under a high-powered microscope, examining every conceivable aspect of the case, splitting

making hundreds upon hundreds of allegations, this very simple case has been transformed into its present form. what's its present form? i'll tell you. it's now the most complex murder case by far in world history. nothing even remotely comes close. >> and you're a prosecutor, you deal with facts. and as journalists, we're supposed to deal with facts. if you just look at facts in what happened. but people for some reason can't accept it. do you know why? >>the president is riding in the presidential limousine. his lovely wife, jacqueline, was seated to his left. they're smiling, they're waving to the crowd. and one second later, it's all over with. and there was this sense that something more just has to be involved.

be involved. bullets are very democratic, they murder or they kill, or injure whomever they hit. and it doesn't take anyone special or important to pull that trigger. down through the years as a result of their torrent of books, radio and tv talk shows, movies, college lecture series, the shrill voice of the conspiracy theorists finally penetrated the consciousness of the american people. americans today that oswald was either a member of some high-level conspiracy, or just some patsy who was framed by an elaborate group of conspirators ranging from anti-castro cuban exiles to organized crime working in league with u.s. intelligence. but originally the majority of americans felt that there was

on why oswald killed president kennedy? what was the motive? >> no one knows for sure. and no one will ever know for sure why oswald killed john f. kennedy. even oswald, if he were alive and wanted to convey to us why he did it may not be able to convey all the dynamics that were swirling around in his fevered brain that led to this monstrous act of murder. but we do know certain things. number one, oswald had delusions of grandeur. his diary was called, an historic diary. a squadmate of his in the marines, said that oswald wanted to do something that people would be talking about 10,000 years from now. his wife marina said that oswald compared himself with the most powerful figures of

read. so this was not someone who just wanted, ah, to cause a ripple. he wanted to change the tide of history. >> it's hard to accept that a lone gunman, one man, one insignificant man, could take the life of a vibrant president and change everything. but after 50 years with no other credible explanation, that is what we're left with. a conclusion that will never satisfy most americans. i'm john hook. thanks for joining us on newsmaker sunday.

to prove how authentic my new brewhouse bacon burger is i'm going undercover, at an actual brewhouse. it's awesome. amazing! what if i told you, you are eating a jack's brewhouse bacon burger from jack in the box. not this one. absolutely lying. and what if i told you... that i'm jack. whaaaat?!! ! no! didn't see that coming, did you? porter ale cheese sauce, grilled onions, and bacon on a artisan potato bun. jack's new brewhouse bacon burger, new from jack in the box. hey, where did jack go? he was just here. >> ? music ? >> newsmaker sunday, with fox 10's john hook. >> thanks for joining us on newsmaker sunday. when it happened, some people chuckled, others cringed. talking about ashley madison. that's the dating website for people who are married, who

affairs. well, ashley madison hummed along for six or seven or eight years, but then the bottom fell out. when the website was hacked and it appears now that details, intimate details, of 32 million users are now out there for the public to see, seven years worth of credit card and payment transaction details. the leak contains everything from e-mail addresses of ashley madison users right down to their physic addresses, phone numbers, employers, credit card numbers, a devastating amount of information that could ruin millions of lives, even if the act of using the site rested on shady moral ground. what does this mean, out in the real world? we're going to talk about it with two noted defense, or pardon me, divorce attorneys. robert schwartz and marlene pontrelli, from dickinson wright. they've been on this program before.

divorce, kind of a how-to and a guide, how to navigate the crazy waters of divorce. but this is something a little bit different. although you talked about it in your last visit here, that this social media stuff is just potential poison, right? robert? >> it's become a -- kind of a out of control vehicle for people to cruise the net. they think that they have some anonymity. they think that they're going to have some degree of privacy. i think the last time i was here i was talking about this phenomenon of people hooking up on the social websites with their high school sweethearts or old flames. and, you know, we've actually seen that quite a bit. the level of ashley madison, though, has taken this thing to a whole different level than anything we have seen before. >> had you or marlene seen clients come into your office,

part of the equation? >> i have not. i have heard about it. but i haven't actually seen it in any of the cases. >> would that suggest that it's maybe not as widespread as we might be led to believe? that this is a pretty small universe of people. i mean, it's 32 million. >> that's a lot of people. but i don't know that that suggests it's not that widespread. i think that it's just been so basically behind the scenes that spouses haven't really realized what was involved. >> have you seen it? >> i haven't seen actually clients coming in having used the ashley madison website. but we certainly see clients coming in, who are, as robert says, hooking up with individuals with respect to social media sites, facebook, utilizing the social media to be able to communicate with individuals versus what we used to see, people would go out to a bar and meet people. now the internet is becoming that vehicle by which people meet each other or try to rekindle previous relationships with one another.

madison, you may not, in this new world we're in, with tinder and all these hookup websites, you may not need an ashley madison anymore. >> you may not need it. but it's interesting that people feel like they're safe if they utilize a facility or a website like ashley madison. so they go on there thinking there's some degree of privacy that they get. and now what ashley madison and the hacking has done, it tells you there isn't any privacy on the internet. >> it's re because even people who said, well, ashley madison users had it coming. but then i read an op-ed that i wanted to share a little bit with you, and just get your take on it. just as citizens of the world. they said, "everyone has something to hide. we all have a right to privacy. poking the finger at people that appear in ashley madison's data base isn't anyone's right even if they committed a sin by your standard." now here's the part that got my attention. "how would you feel about your

to the world? the contents of your computer's documents folder or your snapchat pictures?" that then changes it, right? >> well, it does and it doesn't. remember, ashley madison, their hook was to appeal to a certain segment of the population. i mean, their motto was life is short, have an affair. >> yes. i mean, they made no bones about it. they were very direct. >> so they're appealing to, obviously, married people, because -- or people who are in long-term relationships or relationships. so they're not just appealing to the individual, the single person who's out there looking to meet somebody. i mean, they targeted a specific audience. and apparently they were pretty successful even if a lot of the names are bogus as they're claiming. you're still talking about 32 million names or people that supposedly had something to do with the site. >> marlene, when you see clients come in who have -- their partners have been

experience that generally, the partner who's been on the other side of it, who's been scorned or has, you know -- the affair has happened to, that they're aware something was up? >> you know, i think anybody who may have been utilizing even the ashley madison website, there probably were some problems in the marriage to begin with. and there are those signs. and you know that there might be something out there, but you're afraid to really either ask or to try to find out th details, because you're hoping that what you don't know won't hurt you. and usually we find that they suspected it. the spouse who wouldn't have any affairs suspected that something was going on when you have, you know, two phones, when you have credit cards and statements. >> i was going to ask you, what are the things that kind of -- what are those things, those tangible things that kind of rear their head during this type of behavior? >> well, some of those are,

have to work late. you may find that there are duplicate phones. why do we have two phones that we're utilizing? or they may not even know about a second phone that exists. >> this is the tiger woods stuff. >> credit card charges that show up that you wonder what's this charge for? expenses for hotels, flowers. things that come in that you think, i didn't get them. so where were -- where were they being sent? so usually there are some other signs. >> you know, the text messages and the e-mail accounts are treasure-trove. >> you can get all that as an attorney, right? >> absolutely. we can subpoena from the internet companies. the history of the e-mail accounts. we can get from the cell phone companies not only the records that show the date, the time that the phone call was made, but we can actually get the location, the tower, that the phone call came from. >> to put somebody in a place.

in some of these cases where we can actually give them information. and they can sit down, and on a map they will chart for you all the various towers around town. if the spouse thinks, well, the husband's at work and calling me from the office on their cell phone. meantime, they're way across town. >> i'm going to digress here. maybe you can answer a question. you just raised an issue, with this tom brady thing. when he destroyed his phone on this deflate-gate. are those recoverable, even though he destroyed the phone? >> to some extent the text messages can be recoverable. it all depends how they were erased. if they were done in a very professional way, they probably are not recoverable. >> i didn't think we'd get into deflate-gate today, but you got my attention on this. i want to go back, i think we did a story with you earlier this week on this whole ashley madison. this will bring you up to speed just for those of you

madison? well, here you go. >> if you are trying to find and go through and say i want to see if my spouse is cheating, you probably need to have a conversation with your spouse in the first place. >> reporter: about 32 million people now learning that the hard way. this after the website ashley madison, an online dating site, aimed at people looking to have extramarital affairs was hacked. the hackers have posted things like customer names, log-in details, and addresses on the dark web, a portion of the by google. now that millions of cheaters may be outed, you might wonder if this will have any effect on the divorce rate. family law attorney marlene pontrelli, with the dickinson wright law firm, says, not right away. >> not sure if overall it will actually increase divorce rates. maybe what it does do is it helps bring it out in the open. where before this was something that people were trying to do without anybody knowing about it. >> if divorce is a result of the use of this site,

arizona is a no fault state. meaning if a spouse cheats, he or she will not be punished with less property or money. >> the way that it might affect divorce is, is with the fact that if you've spent money for a non-community purpose, like on this website, there may be that possibility to show there's been some community waste and the ability of one spouse, maybe to have a more unequal distribution of assets. >> well, my mom used to say, don't lie because they'll find out the truth anyway. so, i want to ask you about this, marlene. even people -- when you get people into a divorce proceeding, you're representing either side, this ashley madison stuff, you could find out about it anyway as an attorney, right? >> exactly. you would find out about it anyway, because it shows up on credit card charges. we may ask them under oath, have you been on match.com, any of the other dating websites? have you been on ashley madison? all of that is going to come

utilize that. it might be relevant in custody issues. it might also be relevant for purposes of community waste. has the one spouse spent money for a non-community purpose? which ashley madison would certainly be a non-community purpose. and so we would get that information in the course of a divorce in any event. >> i always thought, this kind of thing -- let's just say everybody, the parties involved in ashley madison who decide to have an affair, it strikes me as reckless beyond the affair part, that you're trusting that this person might not go off the deep end and say i want to have a further relationship and i'm going to call your wife if we don't keep seeing each other or whatever it is, right? >> it's the fatal attraction you have. >> you're inviting all kinds of "mashugana" into your world with this. >> well, not only that, all of the diseases that potentially can be transmitted as well. and so, it's incredibly

affairs such as this. it's reckless to be involved maybe in affairs at all. but to be involved in the dating web sites, where you don't know if there are websites like this one where you really don't know the individuals that you're being involved with and how reckless that can be and how detrimental that can be to the family as well. >> robert. i was going to ask you. >> let me add just one thing to what marlene said. just think about, here you go on a website. you meet somebody you don't know other than through some posting. you manage to meetp them. and next thing you know there's a whole bunch of video tapes floating around of your -- of your encounter. and then you get a letter, or a phone call, or an e-mail that says, if you don't want your wife or kids to see this, maybe you need to do something. i mean, it's just -- it's so ill-advised. >> does that happened as well just in the regular world? >> absolutely. >> it happens all the time. >> and that's with people you know and trust.

lawyer hat and put on just the lawyer hat. two canadian firms on friday filed half a billion dollar class action lawsuits against the company that runs ashley madison after the group's data was breached. 30-some million members were exposed. they're saying that, that this was reckless on the part of the company to ever allow, or because of a hack. and they're seeking damages. is that going to bear fruit or not? >> well, first of all, i haven't seen their sign-up documents. but i'm assuming that they do. the only way people are going to sign up for these sites is with some assurance of privacy and anonymity. so if that's the case, sure, i think there is a very viable claim for them not having proper firewalls or other protections in place.

and i think target wound up settling with the people who got hacked. >> so a hack is not an act of god. it's not something where the company goes, hey, we did everything we could and these guys still got in. that's not good enough. >> i'm not an expert in it. but i do believe that there are measures that can be taken to protect any site against anything. but then on the other hand, now you read the irs got hacked. and that, you know -- >> the government's been hacked. >> the government's been hacked. the question is did they take reasonable steps that a reasonable company would take -- >> that will be the defense. >> -- to protect these people. if someone decides they did everything they reasonably could do, nobody could anticipate this level of sophistication, then they probably won't be liable. but that's a factual question. >> we'll leave it there for now. we're going to take a break. we're going to come back with robert schwartz and marlene pontrelli. they are divorce attorneys with dickinson wright. we're also, later in the program, going to talk about

star, her divorce proceedings with her partner of just about a month, glory johnson, and she is pregnant, glory johnson, as you know. and this raises all kinds of interesting legal questions. but, because they're a same-sex couple, are the legal issues any different than a heterosexual couple? we'll talk about that and more, when we come back on newsmaker sunday.

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