aircraft. so i called the owner and i basically said i understand one of your airplanes is down. he was in shock as well. he said you mean the sheriff hasn't been there yet? and that's when i knew it was really bad. >> and paul babeu came to your door eventually. >> yes. >> paul has been a guest on this program. i know him pretty well. i think the term soft hands woul he handled it as best as could be expected to tell you that news. >> paul is wonderful human being. and very compassionate, very honest man. i think the world of him. >> we started to get to know each other as i worked on a story on the airspace issue in that area. i would show the story but it's nine minutes long so you can look it up on-line and i will

basically what we discovered through internal faa memos is there was concern about the airspace in in in that area. you have superstitions rise to a certain level but pilots are expected to stay below the tops of the mountain because they don't want to get into airspace where jet liners are coming in. the pilots are kept artificially low and puts the mountains into play. but that was only of several factors in this crash and pilot error was to cause of the ntsb are you comfortable with what they concluded. >> i'm comfortable with it and i believe there are other factors that came into play. >> the airspace being one of them. >> the airspace being one of them. in any aircraft accident there is always a chain of events and links, if you will, and perhaps if any of those links had been broken maybe the accident could

but yes, the pilot became disoriented and lost situational awareness and basically the accident was called controlled flight into terrain. however, there were some things that happened that night that it was just -- >> your husband shawn did not fly the plane that night and you assumed he would be flying but he was probably in the back tending to the kids. >> he was in the back, yeah. he and also there was a shift change at falcon field tower at 6:30. the aircraft had just taken off a few minutes before that. at 6:30 the controllers were doing a briefing for the next shift and at 6:31 the aircraft hit the mountain. and even though they were just exiting the controlled airspace for falcon field, had someone

that time they would have seen an aircraft heading 200 miles per hour toward the mountain. >> exactly. and aside from that it was a moonless night. had the moon been even remotely up in some degree, the pilot would have seen terrain. >> right. >> so there were so many factors that led to this. four years later do you ever ask yourself why that night? why that chain of events? why >> i've wondered that -- of course i've wondered that. i have to be at peace with it and come to terms with it because it did happen. and i have just -- instead of trying to make sense of it, i have just tried to be at peace with it and try to go forward with my life. i don't say moving on. i say moving forward because

i take the experiences with my children and my family with me as i move forward. >> with that in mind, do you have people seeking you out who are going through crisis to say how do i do this? >> yeah. >> is that tough to handle, to take on that? >> sometimes it is. >> and you got your own stuff to deal with. >> sometimes it is. >> people seek you out because they think she got through it and she knows how to do this you tell them what. i don't know how to do it i'm putting one foot ahead of the next. >> pretty much, yeah. yeah. >> is that the advice for somebody who faces something like this? >> everyone grieves in their own way. and everyone deals with their own situations as they do. i want people to feel hopeful that they can get through the

matter what. i never compare my situation with someone else's. i just don't do that i know we all go through tough times in our lives and i do believe that we all can get through it. >> you written a book and it's landen napoleon who wrote it he contacted me for input into the book as well because of the story we did. really good guy who took great care with this. he d it's a fascinating story and it really the section on the crash is relatively small. it's your life story. and you lived it. it's been very, very interesting life. it hasn't always been perfect for pleasant but you have somehow navigated it. we will take a break here and back with karen perry right

final minutes with karen perry as you know the story if you were around from 2011 when she lost her three children. her estranged husband, two other and then on a flight that crashed in the superstitions on the book is out. people want you to talk. they want you to speak and tell your story. was that an acquired taste to go out and speak before people and tell them your story and bear your soul each time it has to be exhausting. like this, it has to be not easy. >> absolutely. it was not something i ever had envisioned myself doing. before i had children, i had people would tell me you need to

life -- >> before all of this. >> yeah. and then after the children came along and this tragedy happened, it became very clear to me that it was a story that i thought would give people hope and inspiration. >> you turn the wreckage of that plane into a sculpture, a piece of art. tell me why you did it and what it means to you. >> i did it because, you looking at the wreckage, it's such a hard thing to look at. >> we looked at it together in the yard. >> we did. we looked at it. hard to see an airplane like that and know that your family was part of that accident. and again it was something that i thought we could turn something that appeared very ugly into something beautiful

reside at the superstition mountain museum when it's completed. >> it's great to see you again. we love you here, you know that. this community loves you. great to see you, karen. karen perry, my guest on newsmaker sunday. we will see you next (vo) shop all makes, models and colors in your neighborhood... all with worry-free ownership. head to your neighborhood enterprise car sales and let the

? music newsmaker sunday with fox 10's john hook... thank you for joining us on newsmaker sunday. if you grown up in arizona or been around the state for awhile, you got beat over the head with this idea that there were five cs that built arizona. citrus, cattle, cotton, climate and copper. copper to a great extent built the great state of arizona. copper mining in arizona has been a major industry since the 19th century. just going back to 2007, arizona was the leading copper

of copper. that was $5.54 billion. this is a huge industry. to talk to us about it today and where copper fits into the economy and our future in arizona is j.s. jacques, ceo of rento, rio tinto copper and coal. glad to have you on the program. >> thank you, good morning. >> tell me how you got into this business, becoming the ceo. you've been ceo for three years. >> that's correct. >> 20 years across different industries, different geographies, um so, background is a master of science and i spent 20 years of my life in the industry, first in the aluminum industry and then the steel industry and the mining business and i joined rio tinto four years ago and i got the chair for copper and coal three years ago. so i've worked in indonesia, in the u.s. in chicago. very cold.

>> you are from france originally right, you're french. >> yes, that's right. so i did work in the u.s. working in india and then now i'm based in the uk in london though i spent most of my time on british airlines, or american airlines or quantas, something like that, just go through the list. traveling the world. >> but you didn't come up through the ranks as a guy in an open pit mine somewhere. >> no. i started by doing some chemical products in indonesia. >> so really science is your background. >> science is the background, yes >> tell me about extraction of copper now. open pit we think about this in miami, globe, tucson, sahuarita, all of these places where we have open pit mining. this is really starting to change, is it not? the technology is changing. >> that's correct. so what's happening and it's not only true in the u.s. but globally is we have to go deeper and deeper to extract

are declining and therefore -- >> for environmental concerns? >> no it's only the grade. if you look at it this way you stop mining this piece and then you go this piece and then you go this piece. at one stage it doesn't make sense then we go underground and we use technology called block caving, for example, which is very high-tech i'm sure we'll come back to this point. >> no, go ahead and tell me. >> and that's going to be you know -- we got this big project called resolution. >> yes, the resolution mine. >> absolutely, that were working very hard. just maybe to set the scene it's going to be a very large mine. around 600,000 tons of copper produced every year. that means that this project will be in the top ten mines globally. could be the top number one eventually in the u.s. >> that could be 3700 jobs at least. >> yes, - so what will happen. >> superior- it's in superior, correct. during the construction we expect around 3,000 people to work on the mine building the

running around 4,000 people directly involved in the project. >> 61 billion in economic benefit to the state of arizona. >> correct, and $20 billion of taxes. that's a lot of money. >> schools, hospitals, roads, whatever you want to put it toward. public safety. >> and copper - i'm sure you've got an iphone? remember, what will you do without copper? >> i would be lost. i mean literally the keys to the kingdom are in my pocket right now. >> it's important for people to understand the impact of copper. there is a lot of debate about climate change and so on and so forth. and we have to be clear, there are energy challenges in the us and elsewhere, and copper, if you put aside precious metals of gold, for example and silver, the best conductor of heat and electricity is copper and that's why we are pretty bullish about copper

mine. >> as we're chatting, i'd love to show video. we've got some video of copper mining in arizona. and most of it that you see some of the older footage, is obviously the open pit which are dramatic and incredible. bisbee -- and i don't know -- it's a little close for me to get perspective, but that might -- i'm not sure either. >> that's a big shovel and a big truck. >> i'll say. when you go down there you stand next to the tires on those trucks and they tower over you. you are just like an ant next to this thing. it's amazing. the machinery, the. >> scale. >> the scale thank you, great word. >> the way to see the resolution when it's up and running. >> will you take me down there. >> absolutely, we can go there, next time i'm in town. >> we can do it. >> so, we've just completed the first shaft. 2,000 meters -- i will have to say in feet around 7,000 feet

the u.s. >> so explain to me again, uh j.s., when you're mining you have a pit like that. if you've got a deposit you have to keep going deeper and deeper. so are you starting, you are tapping into existing reserves that are there. >> so in context of resolution, it's a new deposit. completely new. because it's 2,000 meters, 7,000 feet underground, what we'll do is we'll go underneath and you will love this one and we going tora the material underneath and bring it back to the surface. >> why is that more efficient? >> it's more efficient because it's too deep to build a deep pit -- 2,000 meters is very, very deep and therefore the best way to do it unless you want to have a very big footprint, limit the footprint and limit the impact on the environment and the best way from an environmental standpoint, from an economic standpoint, is to go underground and implement what

technology which is to -- serve the matter from beneath. >> what are we doing with tailings, nowadays. >> we need tailings because remember is copper when we mine copper, the average concentration on the ground is one or two percent. so that's very, very small. so what happens when you extract 100 tons of material only two tons are copper. so we need to put all of the rubbles, low materials, low grade material -- but we are very clear that tailing is a very important piece. we have to be very careful on how we manage it. so maybe if i step back and as far as rio tinto is concerned, we have 35 tailing facilities globally. >> alright. >> and we are very clear very strict on how we build these tailing facilities and how we monitor those tailing facilities because we know that, it is a serious matter

>> can you -- as we see with all landfills, they build golf courses on them. they do all kinds of things with old landfills. can you, can you reclaim copper, old copper mines and build or do something with them? >> yeah, absolutely. and what we are doing currently in the tunnel of superior where there used to be a mine, the magma mine, is that's exactly what we are doing as we speak. we are reclaiming the old tailing facility -- so people don't see anything at the end of the day. this project for ten years we spent a little more than $30 million reclaiming old, old mine tailing facilities. and next time you in town whether we go there -- >> i would love to do that. what now in arizona, what is the percentage or the piece of the economy that copper represents? i have to turn my iphone off. i'm sure as a dutiful guest we were talking about the iphone. i didn't turn mine off. pardon me.

arizona? >> i wouldn't be able to give you numbers per se for the arizona piece. but as you said, i mean, if i go back to resolution it's $60 billion impact and $20 billion of taxes, 4000 people. >> it's still a huge piece of our economy. >> it's a massive piece of the economy. and what should people should understand is resolution will have an impact not only in arizona but in the u.s. currently the u.s. is importing copper. importing copper from japan, from mexico and from china as well. when you look at the resources in arizona now and in other states of the u.s. we could be self-sufficient. >> wasn't chile another place that we competed with for a long time? >> well, chile today accounts for around 25-30% of the global copper picture. so yes, there is some healthy competition between chile and the u.s. but remember, we have a mine in salt lake city. i know it's not arizona, it's

it's utah, not far away, and the mine has been there for more than 100 years. so we have been here in this country for a long time and we are very comfortable in operating here and we hope we will be able to progress this resolution project as quickly as we can. >> uh we will swing back to copper in a moment. i did want to ask you about coal because this is an area of expertise for you and this has obviously been, an area in recent years that has come under tremendous pressure from environmentalists. you mentioned utah. utah struggling with this right now because it's a big economic driver there that has almost been -- they are trying to shut this completely down because of air issues. where are we with coal in the mix of our energy array? >> so i don't, i don't operate a coal mines in the u.s. but i operate coal mines in australia and in the south pacific as we speak. we have clearly, a good understanding of the coal business. our view is very simple.

>> still. >> 20 years down the road, 30 years down the road. i've got no doubt in my mind that coal has a future. i going to use the example of china which is the largest coal consumer at this point in time and if you take a 20 year perspective and you assume pretty aggressive assumptions in terms of energy sources from the hydro, gas, especially on the back with the deal with russia, nuclear. to balance the book you still need a lot of coal. in the medium and long-term. now what is important is to produce the best coal we can, alright. and that's why as far as rio is concerned we've got we believe some of the best coal deposits in australia, i know it's far away from here but it's part of this global discussion and therefore we see a bright future for coal. >> coal burning plants you need scrubbers to clean what is coming out of the stack.

developed scrubbers that pretty much neutralized this. >> i think the work is underway. we look at it very carefully because remember we produce coal but we use the coal and other sources for energy because we need lots of energy in relation to our mines. we want to be part of the solution and not only in terms of product we sell to the market we talk about copper, we talk about aluminum but what we are trying to do as rio tinto across all our mines is to reduce all carbon footprin have a vested interest in making sure that operation, wherever they are, in utah or resolution one day or in australia are using the best available technology in relation to energy. >> explain something to me. as you aggressively try to clean what's coming out from a coal plant, coal fired plant, does it reduce as you get more aggressive on emissions, does it reduce what you can produce in power?

you continue to improve the yield and the capture. >> it's not an either/or. >> the new technology is able to do both. >> so with technology, we should still be able to use and burn coal without impacting the environment negatively. >> the new technology the new power plant we use the best available technology, clean energy and we'll have a reduced footprint from the carbon footprint going forward. yes. but we shouldn't forget that, you know, there is a lot of capacity installed. the old question is about how quickly you want to change. >> and the cost. >> and the cost of it. because we shouldn't forget about the cost on this one. >> and places like china this gets into the climate change debate but places like china may not be as interested in spending the money to clean and scrub. they are interested in the power not the environmental concerns necessarily at this moment. >> yeah, i can't make comments about china for obvious reasons.

direction but that clearly some other countries in southeast asia or india where they are not as developed in their thinking as china. >> sure. >> and therefore if you are in india today and i spent five years of my life over there - the project is to generate more energy, to support more jobs, manufacturing, development and so on and so forth and therefore you have conflicting, potentially at this stage you've got conflicting priorities. >> dealing with environmental questions come second and maybe third. >> where as in china, i think they understand fully, that they are energy challenged a therefore they are becoming smarter and smarter and i'm sure you've seen those pictures of beijing, you know the pollution where you can't see more than 300 meters away. >> people on bicycles with masks on and it's not a good situation. >> so they believe that -- i believe that they acknowledge the situation and they have started working on it but there is a long way to go. >> j.s. jacques is our guest. he is the ceo of rio tinto copper and coal. talking about the place of copper in arizona's economic picture, and he's an expert

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