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>> reporter: the day before the earthquake, haley and her father, team leader garrett, and the rest of the climbers were makiki good progress through the khumbu icefall. >> every step counts in the icefall. >> reporter: is it exhausting, you're carrying all this gear? >> i probably had about 30 pounds, 40 pounds on my back. heavy boots, heavy gear. you're trying to breathehe >> reporter: haley, upupront with the fast climbers, quickly made it up to camp 1. fit as she was, she was now feeling the altitude at 20,000 feet. >> i was wiped. it's extremely hot. i was extremely dehydrated. i was happy to see camp one. >> reporter: you collapse in exhaustion. >> pretty much.

right now." >> reporter: haley's 59-year-old father, randall, was having a much harder time. >> dad, maybe an hour, hour and a half later, , mes into camp 1. he's not feeling so good. he had already had some stuff going on in his chest. cold and flu before we set out. and he is getting worse at this point. >> reporter: what does he sound like, what does he look like? >> he looks terrible. he's coughininup blood. i told him, "please. you're not going to heal if you move higher. you need to stay at camp 1." i was very adamant about him not joining us to camp 2. he did not listen to anything i had to say. >> reporter: randall, sick as he was, insisted on climbing higher. almost immediately, he fell behind. haley lost sight of him as she raced ahead, her dream of summiting everest getting closer

and i like to move. i was behind garrett and with some other of the guy climbers. >> reporter: the climbers were about three quarters of the way up to camp 2 when suddenly -- we just hear the most awful ise any of us have e er heard. an incredible, thunderous roar, louder than anything we've ever heard. >> reporter: the earthquake had struck. >> all of a sudden, the ground starts to shake like, the glacier is literally gonna crack. then, all of a sududn, i hear avalanche on both sides coming down everest, coming down nuptse. it's a whiteout. i can't see anything in front of me. you know, garrett's yelling, "everyone get down. d at that moment, i i ought, "this is it." "i'm done." i get the avalanche beacon out. and i turn it on. >> reporter: so somebody could find you if you -- >> to find me. >> reporter: --get buried. >> right. >> reporter: you thought you

>> yep. that's what went through my mind at that moment, that, "this is it. bye." >> we didn't know where it was coming from. i told all the climbers with me to put their bandana or buff over their face to protect their airways. and during that time, the acier we were on was bouncing and down. >>eporter: when the earth stopped rolling, garrett assessed the damage. none of the climbers around him seemed to have been injured. what do you do? >> we kept moving. a few members of our group who were a little behind us, half an hour, 45 minutes. we thought, "boy, we were really lucky, something big j jt happened. we survived, let's get up to camp 2." >> reporter: you felt safer if you were at camp? >> well, in camp, we've got our tents, our food, fuel. >> reporter: and, importantly, a powerful radio to find out what happened down below. >> with the little handheld walkie talkieseswe can't really talk to base camp, just amongst each other while we're climbing. >> so you don't know what's happening down at base camp? >> right. but then my lead sherpa, who was up at camp 2 called me on the radio and said, "garrett, there's been a massive avalanche

in base camp, and it would be good if you got up here soon." >> reporter: t t sherpa raced down to meet garartt. >> he had come down without a pack and said "die," wch means older brother. "let me take your backpack and we'll climb together to camp 2." >> reporter: did that make you worried? >> it did. i became more concerned at this point. >> reporter: down below, base camp manager bhola paudel had gathered the madison group's survivors. >> mike was badly hurted. bola was calling us to go to gorek shep. >> reporter: he wanted them to evacuate on foot. >> he said that they would look for eve. so we -- we went down to gorek shep. >> reporter: they hated the idea of leaving base camp without eve, but knew they had to go. so, accompanied by sherpa guides, michael and the other survivors began to trek to safety. >> then i started to -- you know, started -- started the march, you know -- towards it with one sherpa in front, ron behind me, davi behind him. >> reporter: you were now the walking wounded? >> yeah.

i mean, i was spitting some blood, you know, likik blowing my nose, blood was coming. you know, i was really thirsty. we -- i didn't have any water, so i'd eat like a little snow on the way. all i can do is put one foot in front of the other. >> reporter: two hours later, they reached a village where michael would finally get medical attention. bhola had ststed up at base camp, desperate to fd eve. >> i'm looking for my clients. and somebody tell me, "one lady here is very sick." >> another group sherpa said, "there's a lady, she's very sick." >> reporter: the lady was eve, and she had a serious head injury. >> so what did eve look like when you finally saw her? >> she just laid down and bleeding. and we put her in a sleeping bag. >> eve's injury was severe, but she was now receiving medical attention, wrapped in a warm eeping bag, and breathing oxygen through a mask. >> reporter: did you think she was going to live? >> she's, i think, live. >> reporter: bhola made a call to the expedition's lead

sherpa -- purba -- who was at camp 2. it was purba who translated the news for garrett. the team's base camp facilities, he told him, had been wiped out. and eve, the woman he was in love with, was badly injured. so when you tell garret that eve is very sick, what does he tell you? >> he ld me, "where is eve right now? who is taking care?" i told him that russell's doctor is there, they are taking care of eve. >> reporter: so a doctor from another group is taking care of her. and was he nervous? was he upset? >> yeah, he's like upset. >> reporter: garrett had enormous responsibilities keeping him focused. some of his climbers were just starting to arrive at camp. he gathered them together. he called a meeting. >> garret comes in and he's like, "got some really bad news. that was an earthquake today and

destroyed and eve is critically injured." so all these emotions are going through my head. but in my mind, i'm likeke"she's okok. she'll be fine, she'll b bfine." you know? i went over to garret. i hugged him. i'm sorry to hear about eve. everything's gonna be okay. >> reporter: and haley had other worries. her father hadn't made it up to camp 2. he was missing on the mountain. >> i'm like, "something's wrong. something's not risht." i'm kind of looking at my watch, "where is he?" coming up, desperation at 21,000 feet. >> we need to get him off the mountain now. he will die here. >> and at base camp, a dire moment for eve. >> hurt her head badly. >> badly.

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it regenerates surface cells. new skin is revealed in only 5 days. without drastic measures. stunningly youthful. award-winning skin. never settle for anything less. the regenerist collection. from the world's #1. olay, your best beautiful >> reporter: the climbers at everest camp 2 were now beginning to understand the scale of the devastation across nepal in the wake of the 7.8 earthquake and its powerful aftershocks. and they were hearing more details about the avalanche that had obliterated most of their base camp, pummeling their friends with rock, ice and snow, injuringnghree of them, including eve, their beloved camp doctor.

but at 21,000 feet, the climbers had their own concerns. randall ercanbrack, who was suffering from altitude sickness when he left camp 1, had not made it to camp 2. his daughter haley had been worried sick waiting for him, when suddenly he came into view. >> i actually get up and i go outside of the dining tent, and i see him at afar. and he's coming towards me, barely walking, , rt of stumbling. i get to him. and he's completely confused, delirious. and he sort of sets his pack down and kind of collapses there. he can't breathe. hehe not again making mumu sense. so, at that point we know that he's suffering from hape, which is high altitude pulmonary edema. >> reporter: and it's often fatal. haley jumped into action. >> we get him on oxygege they start pumping him full of a

bunch a drugs. i'm freaking out. i'm kind of, like, almost mad in a way. like, "why didn't you listen to me?" i knew this was dangerous. >> reporter: the bottled oxygen was keeping raraall alive, for now. the only real treatment for hape is getting to a lower altitude. >> we need to get him off this mountain now. he will die here. >> reporter: and then, from base camp, expedition manager bhola paudel called in the worst news imaginable about their injured doctor, eve girawong. down below, you load eve into a sleeping bag. she's hurt her head badly. >> badly. >> reporter: what happened when you moved her? >> on the way, she die. >> reporter: she died while you were carrying her? >> yeah. >> purba, my lead climbing sherpa, hands me the radio and says -- and that's when i heard the worst news of my life. "garret, eve's dead." and i couldn't believe it. i said, "can you please repeat that?"

eve's dead." >> reporter: devastated, garrett again called the team together. >> he tells us that, first of all, there's no route off of here. we're running low on food, gas, supplies. and he tells us that eve didn't make it. >> reporter: just like that? >> yep. i broke down. i completely just -- there everyone is sittinthere -- i just went into tears, knowing this is his girlfriend, this is the love of his life. >> r rorter: garrett had j jt lost eve, but he had to focus on the survival of his team. the avalanche had made their planned route impassable. there was no way out. >> so our plan now, at camp 2, is to hang tight. the khumbu icefafa route that we climbed up three days ago is now in ruins and needs to be

repaired before we can descend. so essentially, we're trapped in camp 2 with a limited supply of food, fuel and other resources. >> reporter: as the frigid himalayan night fell, the team concentrated on keeping randall alive. haley huddled in a tent with her father and a fearful vigil began. >> it was a rough, rough night. i laid next to h h all night. and i could not sleep. i listened to him breathe every breath. >> reporter: he's asleep? or he's half asleep? >> he's asleep, because he's on oxygen. ananwhen your body's getetng oxygen like that, you're warm. you're able to breathe better. >> reporter: the oxygen they had with them wasn't going to last long. randall's only hope was to be airlifted out. but bad weather down below meant that no helicopters were flying. even if haley and the team could nurse him through e night, it

would bring. coming up, a daring pilot and a break in the clouds. >> the guides said, "we've got a helicopter."

mountain again. madison group climbers were stranded at everest camp 2. with limited supplies, a deathly ill teammate, and no way down. haley managed to nurse her father through the night, but he was running out of oxygen and time. then that morning, a miracle. >> the guide ran to me and said, "we've got a helicopter. we need to get your dad out of here." we are waiting for the helicopter to come. life flight dad out. he's not doing well. he's on oxygen. we have to get him out of here. >> they emphasized the landing

zone. >> the sherpas and garrett were leveling out a piece of snow basically where the helicopter could land. >> reporter: they marked the landing zone with a large "h" written in the store with orange tang. finally, a chopper came inino view. at the controls, a swiss pilot named reto reusch. he was the only pilot brave enough to fly up the mountain. >> i tax my time and made an approach and another one. and eventually i saw that yellow "h," and thought, okay, that's where they want me to land. >> i get as close as i can to o ththhelicopter. and i hug hihigood-bye. we both started crying. >> reporter: haley had no idea where her father was headed or

treatment in time. but as he flew o o, she knew there was no way reto's lone helicopter could evacuate the rest of the team. the healthy climbers would have to hike out. >> we can't get down to camp 1. there's no route. and there was an aftershock, a 6.6. and the ice blocks are moving again. very dangerous. we need to get to base camp to see what's happened, what we can do. >> reporter: and to get off the mountain. >> and to get off the mountain. >> reporter: so they attempted to find a way down, worried about what they would find below. >> we had to work our way around the crevasses, but we made it back to camp 1. >> reporter: luckily, by now, the weather was starting to clear up, and other helicopters could join reto in the rescue effort. effort. >> it evacuated us two by two, two at a time, all the way down to base camp. >> reporter: what they saw as they retuned to their devastated base camp appalled them. the power of the avalanche that had left 19 people dead and more than 60 injured was evident everywhere. >> there just wasn't much left

>> i get off the helicopter. base camp is completely unrecognizable. i'm not even sure which direction our camp even was at this point. >> reporter: suddenly, in the middle of the debris, haley saw her father. >> i see him, he sees me. i'm kind of thinking, "what e yo-- what are you doing here, you know? you're supposed to be in the hospital." i was like, "i'm happy to see you, but why are you here right now?" >> reporter: must have been a great relief to you to see haley. she's gotten down. she's not stranded up at camp 2. >> an unbelievable relief. and i was so happy that -- i was exhausted and took the oxygen mask off for a minute and hugged her. and then i needed oxygen again, so i laid down. >> reporter: randall was too sick to be of much help, so haley got to work. >> i saw eve's tent completely

collapsed. i didn't really care about my things. i sort of went over there and just started to collect her things. i felt like if that were me, i know that t e would do that for me. >> reporter: haley stuck close to her father as the team made its way down. >> the walk to gorak shep was unbelievably difficult with oxygen even. i just had no lungs. >> reporter: the climbers eventually made their way to kathmandu, where they met for a bittersweet reunion. >> w wre going to finish i i >> absolutely. >> reporter: and garrett left kathmandu to say a final good-bye to eve. he flew to bangkok, where e r

services. he wants to eventually leave a more tangible remembrance to the woman he loved in the shadow of a place that meant so much to her. >> i'm planning to build a memoriri for eve below lobucuc, where the memorials to fallen climbers are. >> reporter: you want to go there and build it with your own hands. >> i think that's something eve deserves. >> reporter: haley and randall are now home. she's backraining on camelback mountain in arizona. he's recovered from his altitude illness and is getting back into shape in utah. are you gonna try and climb everest? >> absolutely. i'm not finishing it like this. she might not take me, but i'm coming. i'm coming. >> i'm coming back, too. but we may rethink coming together. it's just -- it's a dangerous thing and -- >eporter: people say that too many people climb everest.

>> i believe that the danger will always be there. and i'm just thankful there was a brave helicopter pilot that came and got me. >> reporter: we paid that brave pilot a visit at home in the swiss alps. >> flying in the mountains, you know, is not flying by the numbers, it's basically flying by the seat of your pants. >> reporter: it tutus out that randall was just one of dozens of injured people reto reusch rescued after the avalanche. for much of that critical morning, he was the only pilot able to fly medevac missions. and other helicopters couldn't come to help out? >> n n no, the weather was just -- the weather was too bad. >> reporter: most of the injured reto rescued were at base camp. >> as soon as we landed there, you know, they opened the door and got the first severely injured people in there. and i told them, "well, i'll try to go back." >> reporter: he did.

40 flights and rescued more than 70 injured people. it makes you very uncomfortable if i called you a hero. >> yeah. >> reporter: is this just a swiss cultural phenomenon? or are you just the most -- >> i think so. >> reporter: -- modest pilot in the world? >> no. oh, no, no, no, no. i'm just an ordinary guy here, you kno[. >> reporter: across nepal, the hard work of rebuilding destroyed villages, temples and monasteries is now underway. many of the climbers were deeply moved by the suffering they witnessed and are now doing what they can, donating money to help the devastated communities. in arizona, haley is doing her part. >> this is really about a disaster, a whole country, people have lost their lives, thousands s ve lost their homes, their family, their friends. i feel like i would like to use this experience to bring and

raise awareness to nepal and the tragedy that has happened here to all these people. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm lester holt. thanks for joining us. thanks for joining us. this sunday, the new front-runner in iowa. ben carson surges ahead of the pack, shocking the pundits and getting under donald trump's skin. >> i'm presbyterian. i mean, seventh day adventist, i don't know about. >> my sit-down with ben carson, who isn't holding back. >> if people canme up with a reasonable explanation of why they would like to kill a baby, i'll listen. >>plus, did republicans fumble their moment at that benghazi hearing. >> i don't know what y'all were doing thursday. i had a rough thursday. [ laughter ] >> we'll talk to the leading figures on that committee, republican trey gowdy and

and clinton'sig week. the democratic debate won, joe biden, out, the benghazi hearing over. the ten days that may have vaulted hillary clinton to the democratic nomination. >> it's been quite a week, hasn't it? and joining me for insight and analysys this sunday morning are cnbc's john harwood, pulitzer prize winning historian doris kearns goodwin, the "washington post's" jennifer rubin, and steven henderson of the "detroit free press.s. weweome to sunday, it's "meet the press." good sunday morning. we've just come through perhaps the most significant ten days in the 2016 campaign to date. on the democratic sisi, hillary clinton reestablished herself as the clear front-tunner, she won last week's democratic debate, two of her lesser opponent, jim web and lincoln chafee, dropped out of the race. joe biden decided he had no path to victory. on top of that, clinton was

almost universally seen as having survived and some even thought she might have thrive at that house benghazi hearing. on the republican side, the candidates that are struggling are feeling the pressure. here's jeb bush unplugged yesterday. >> i got a lot of really cool things that i can do other than sit around being miserable listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. that is a joke. elect trump if you want thaha >> wow. a lot to dig into there, which we will later in the show. now, not one but two polls show ben carson leading donald trump and all the rest of the republicans in iowa. guess what? we are now just 99 days away from that snowy monday in iowa where we'll find out who wins those causes. and carson's under-the-radar rise has bewilder it had smarty pants crowd in iowa. i caught up wii rson in iowa and asked him to respond to these comments from donald

trump. >> we have a breaking story. donald trump has fallen to second place behind ben carson. we informed ben, but he was sleeping. [ laughter ] how do you respond to mr. trump? >> everybody has their own personality and if he'dike to do tt, that's fine. that's not who i am. and i don't get into the mud pit and i'm not going to be talking about people. i will tell you in terms of energy, i'm not sure that there's anybody else running who's spspnd 18 or 20 hours intently operating on somebody. >> do you thk that people mistake your soft-spokenness with lack of energy. >> i think so. i have plenty of energy. but, you know,w, iam soft spoken. i do have a tendency to be relaxed.

there was a time when i was, you know, very volatile. but i changed. >> when was that? >> as a teenager. i would go after people with rocks and bricks and baseball bats and hammers and, of course, many people know the story when i was 14 and i tried toto stab someone. and, you know, fortunately my life has been changed and i'm a very different person now. >> why do you see so easily go to nazi metaphors? you refer to -- when you were talking about health care you referred to ed tored to gestapo. a lot of times, the minute you talk about the nazis and the hall cause, people stop listening. >> intntestingly enough, last several weeks i've heard from many people in the jewish community, including rabbis, who've said "you're spot on. you are exactly right." and i think it's -- some of the

frankly, who like to try totir things up and try to make this into a big horrible thing if i say something about something that we don't want to become and we never even want to get close to it than i'm comparing it and saying we're there. that's what they do. and, of course, for people who aren't really thinking deeply, you know, that resonates. but the fortunate thing is a lot of people really do think for themselves, as you can see from the poll numbers here. >> you talked about -- youou said a lot of jewish people reached out to you about saying you were spot on. so you believe if the jewish citizenry were armed during the '40s that they would have been ble to stop the nazis? >> well, look at the whole context in which i've said that and which i've written about it. i wrote about societies before tyranny was able to take root that the tyrants tried to rid the people o o the mechanism to fend themselves.

so it was set in that context. and i think it's generally agreed that it's much more difficult to dominate people who are armed than people who are not armed. some people will try to that and make it into a -- an anti-jewish thing, which is foolishness. >> on your position on guns. a little bit of a contradiction. in one article in breitbart you indicated that there shouldn't be a line about whatypes of weapopo. that the second amendment doesn't -- if the government can have an automatic weapon than the citizenry should have the weapon. and then at the same time you have said in places where there are a lot of crowds, referring to cities, you don't want a crazy person ending up with the wrong type of weapon. so you seem to be open to limiting that. what is your stand? >> well, point being we should never compromise the second amendment. it's, therefore, a very, very important reason.

america would never suffer under tyranny because of people with arms. keep that in mind. of course we shouldlde thinknkg about what can we do to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of mentally unstable people. the two things are not incompatible. >> so you're not saying there should be a limitation on what type off weapon a sane person should be able to buy. >> of course not. when we put these -- when we put this amendment in place, state-of-the-art weapon was, what, a musket? but the principle was that the citizenry should have access to whatever they needed in order to protect themselvefrom an overly aggressive government. >> what's the line? should somebody be able to have one of these surface-to-air missiles? >> i don't think you can get a surface-to-air missile legally in this country. >> and that's okay? that's my point. you're okay with having anything that you can hold -- there is some limitation on what somebody --

>> there is. and we have laws that take care that. >> does life begin at conception? >> i believe it does. >> does that mean -- who's right should be superseded? the moer or the unborn child? who has greater rights? >> this the ideal situation the mother should not believe that the baby is her enemy. and should not looking to terminate the baby. you know, things are set up in such a way that the person in the world who's the greatest interest in protecting the baby is the mother. we've allowed the purveyorsrs of the vision to make mothers think that that baby is their enemy and that they have a right to kill it. can you see how perverted that line of thinking is? >> what if somebody has an unwanted pregnancy?

>> no. think about this. during slavery -- and i know that's one of those words you're not supposed to say, but i'm saying it -- during slavery a lot of the slave owners t tught they had the right to do whatever they wanted to that slave. anything that they chose to do. and what if the abolitionists had said "you know, i don't believe in slavery, i thinkk iis wrong but you guys do whatever you want to do"? where would we be? >> definitively, do you want to see roe v. wade wade overturned? >> ultimately, i would want to see it overturned. >> does that mean all abortions illegal or there an exception you would have? >> i'm a reasonable person and if people can come up with a reasonable explanation of why they would like to kill a baby, i'll listen. >> life and health of the

>> again, that's an extraordinarily rare situation. but if in that very rare situation occurred there's room to discuss that. >> rape and incest? >> rape and insist i would not be in favor of killing a baby because the baby came about in that way. and all you have to do is go and look at the many stories of people who have led very useful lives who were the result of rape or incest. >> i want to move to health care. you have, i think a lot of people don't realize, you believe we should g g r r of medicare and replace it with sort of a from birth to death plan where you would -- the government would give you $2,000 a year. explain how you would -- i may have misinterpreted it. >> not correct. >> explain how you would replace medicare. >> first of all, what i have said is that the system that i

negate the need for medicare or for medicaid. so i'm not talking about getting rid of t tse programs. and the way that i generally see things, entitlement programs, et cetera, is we create a mechanism that allows people to ascend the ladder of success to t t extent that they don't need those programs anymore. that's what i'm talking about. now, people will always try to reinterpret that to say carson wants to get rid of that, he wants to get rid of, that he wants to leave all these people in a terrible situatioio that's propopanda. >> so how do you -- how do you implement this? >> the way you do it is we make health savings accounts available to people from the day that they are born to the day that they die at which time they can pass it on totheir family. we payyor it with theame traditional dollars that we pay for health care with. recognize that in america we spend twice as much per capita on health care as many other countries and yet we have these horrible access problems.

so we have adequate resourcrcs, we just don't use them in an efficient way. and then we give people the ability to shift money within their health savings account within their family. if you're $500 short, your wife can give it to you out of hers or your daughter or uncle or cousin. it gives you enormous flexibility without a middleman. >> so you would eliminate health insurance companies? >> i'm not finished. that will take careover the largest number of inndents that are likely t t occur. it doesn't take care of catastrophic health care, but you can buy catastrophic health care policy and it will cost you a lot less because the vast majority of things are coming out of your hsa. so the only thing coming out of your catastrophic insurance is catastrophic health care. it's like having a homeowners policy with a big deductible for a homeowners policy where you want every scratch covered. completely different animals. >> but you are advocating for the govevement to spend this money and just allocate in the a different way?

the medicaid is going to take care of those health savings accounts, yes. >> final question. you would not -- i'm guessing you would not hire somebody to be a doctor if they didn't have experience in the medical field. what do you say to folks that say "why should we hire you as president when you have no experience in government or thehe political field?" >> i would say that there are a lot of people who like to believe that whatever they do is the end all and that nobody could absolutely do things better than they could. it's sort of like the constitution, people say "what are you doing talk about the constitution? you're not a constitutional lawyer." well, the constitution was written at an eighth grade level for a reason. they wanted the people to be able to understand how they were being governed. and our government was set up for citizen statesmen, not career politicians.

lot more valuable than many years in the political ena. witness the fact that in congress we have 8700 years of political experience. where has that gotten us? and i think people are willing to open their eyes and say let's talk about common sense. now, that doesn't mean that if someone like mee were to get in that we wouldn't have plenty of people around us who were well seasoned in what was going on in washington and in various parts of the world. >> so you're going-to-surround yourself with experienced people, is what you're saying? >> i think you have to do that. soloman, the wisest man who ever lived said in proverbs11:14 "in a multitude of counselors is safety safety. ". >> you can see my complete interview with ben carson unedited. we talked about syria, the debt ceiling and other issues.

hearings. you want that? you want that released? >> let me tell you something, right now -- >> the only one you've asked for is sidney blumenthal. >> the top two memb before fibromyalgia, i was on the go. i was organized. i was a doer. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. mymyoctor and i agreed moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. she also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. for some patients, lyrica significantly relieves fibromyalgia pain and improves physical function.

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. welcome back. it's not hard to find democrats who think republicans who are out of the mainstream or republicans who think it's democrats that are out of the mainstream of american opinion. so which party really is in the mainstream? in our latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll we asked americans which political party is in the maybe stream on these six issues. gay marriage, abortion, climate change, fiscal issues, immigration and guns. not surprisingly, democratic primary voters believe they're in the mainstream on all six of those issues from gay marriage down to guns and republican primary voters believe they're in the mainstream in all six issues. somebody these be wrong here, right? who do we go to figure thh snout independents. and there's good news if you're the w among independents in our poll, they believe the democratic party is in the mainstream on three of the six issues, gay marriage, abortion, and climate change. on the issue of guns they believe the republicans are in the mainstream. the only issue they say the

republicans are in the mainstream. by the way, on the two big fiscal issues here, immigration and economic issues overall, independents believe both parties are more out of the mainstream. so what are we to conclude? number one, independent voters tend to reflect the total electorate better than either party but this is one what it's going to mean a year from now. in october, three or four weeks before election day it means republicans will use the gun issue as a wedge in these swing state, think colorado, iowa, and virginia. and democrats will use the issues of marriage, abortion and climate change as wedge issues in other parts of those same swing state, probably the suburbs. you saw it in '12, you'll see in the '16. you won't see either party arguing about the two issues both are out of the mainstream on. coming up, where do we go from here on th and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there?

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for months, many republicans looked to hillary clinton's testify before the house benghazi committee as the moment where she would be exposed for failing to protect american lives and frankly, potentially even lying about it. more recently, many democrats looked to the hearings with similar anticipation, hoping this would be the day clinton came off as the adult in the

room and exposed the committee as a partisan charade. judging by these headlines from the "washington post," "time" and politico, it looks like perhaps the democrats got their way -- at least on the pr front. joining me now this morning are the chairman of the house select committee on benghazi, republican trey gowdy of south carolina and the ranking democrat on the committee, elijah cummings of maryland. congressman cummings, we'll get to you in a moment. we'll start with chairman gowdy. chairman, good morning, sir. >> good morning to you and to mr. cummings. >> let me start with playing a clip of something you were asked on thursday evening after the hearing. here it is. >> well, when you say "new today," we knew some of that already. we knew about the e-mails. in terms of her testimony, i don't know that she testified that much differently today than she had previous times she's testified so i'd have to go back and look at the transcript. >> all right, simple question, you've looked at the transcript i imagine the last 72 hours. what have you come up with?

>> well, i think there's some new information and some clarifying information in all three trunchbenghazi information. the first is the before when she's asked whether she takes responsibility, she says yes but when you ask responsibility for what, i can't tell you what she's taking responsibility for and my main fear is how are we better prepared to avoid the next benghazi if we don't fully understand who made the errors and where the errors were made last time. so with respect to responsibility, with the placing of the mission, with the request for more security i have a perspective which is rooted in the previous arb that the secretary of state, himself or herself, should do that personal review. her position is that there are people and processes in place and she relies on security experts. we have to get that reconciled because i think mr. cummings and i both agree the penultimate

objective is to avoid the next benghazi. >> we did a little calculation here on the number of words that you used during the hearing. you said the word "benghazi" 17 times. blumenthal 35 times. e-mails 76 times. you made a promise that you were keeping the focus on benghazi. do you feel as if you did as much or -- even some republicans were wondering why you were going down the sidney blumenthal -- what some called the rabbit hole. >> >> i don't think it's a rabbit hole, chuck and i'll tell you why. i respect that other people have different perspectives but to me those are not sidney blumenthal's e-mails they are secretary clinton's e-mails to or from sidney blumenthal and every one of them relates to libya and benghazi so i'm not reading blumenthal e-mails about bridesmaids dresses or wedding plans or yoga. these are all about libya and benghazi and to the extent that he was one of the more prolific e-mailers to her on the subject

matter how do you not ask how does this person who has no formal role in government and no expertise in libya or benghazi, how does he have unfettered access to you but the ambassador -- there is not a single e-mail to or from him. so i get people want to refer to these as sidney blumenthal e-mails. they're hillary clinton e-mails that she received from him and, frankly, i think it would be a dereliction of duty if you didn't ask about them. >> nobody is questioning whether to ask about them. i think it was the amount of time spent on it. it seemed like a larger portion of time was spent on that. for instance, i didn't hear as many questions that i expected to hear on the libya policy in general, the vacuum that was left that ultimately created the security situation we had in benghazi that led to the death of four americans. >> i think peter roskam and mike pompeo both asked, maybe all of their series of questions on the ticktock memo and i remember susan brooks having a stack of

e-mails in 2011 versus 2012 and 2011 there was a heightened interest in libya and benghazi and 2012 it appeared to dissipate, at least according to the e-mails. so chuck as you know, when grow into hearings each of the seven members has his or her own lane. that's what they'll ask on and i think it's relevant on two different levels. whether or not his e-mails were solicited or unsolicited you can argue is irrelevant. but she said they were unsolicited and i do think credibility is always relevant. if they were truly unsolicited then she wouldn't v changed her testimony on thursday. >> let me ask you this. you said this the other night on fox with greta van susteren. "part of what i saw wasn't that constructive and for the american people to see a nine hour food fight, i would rather do that privately." it sounds like you may regret

how you went about questioning secretary clinton that maybe you should have done some of it off camera and only some on camera. what do-over do you want? >> chuck, it was a voluntary interview. i didn't send a subpoena to secretary clinton, it was a voluntary interview and she wanted it to be in public. i wrote a letter several months ago giving her an option and she chose public and that's well within her rights. i can just tell you of the 50 some odd interviews we have done thus far, the vast majority have been private and you don't see the bickering among the members of congress in private interviews. you don't see any of that. >> the tv camera ads to the grandstanding on both sides of the aisle? >> what do you think, chuck? you've been following congress for a long time. i can just tell you in the private interviews there is never any of what you saw thursday. it is one hour on the republican

side, one hour on the democrat side which is why you're going to see the next two dozen interviews done privately because it is -- look at the other investigations that are being done right now. the lois learner investigation that was just announced, was that public or private? how about comey's investigation? is that public or private? the private ones produce better results. >> very quickly, secretary clinton, was she a cooperative witness? >> she answered the questions. i don't think i ever caught her off. she was given ample opportunity, so she answered the questions, yeah, if that's your definition of "cooperative," yes. >> is that yours? >> i've always also injected an element of wholeness and completeness and truthfulness in the definition of cooperative and i'll give you one example. i gave her an opportunity to tell me where the 90% to 95% figure comes from.

she's wrong about that. did she cooperate in answering the question? yes. was it an accurate answer? no. >> congressman gowdy, i'll leave it there. let me bring in the ranking democrat on the benghazi committee, elijah cummings. congressman cummings, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be with you. >> let me start with you, the one issue democrats and how they handled themselves. we tallied up 68 questions to secretary clinton. 16 at best could we call challenging. why did you guys choose a strategy of shield rather than a strategy of what tammy duckworth did, probably the one democrat that did it the most, of conducting a hearing, asking questions about the security situation. >> from the very beginning, chuck, i said we were looking for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in

ourselves having to not defend secretary clinton but make sure the report wasb glad the public had an opportunity to see all of that. when you look at what we were asking about, they were the things that went to benghazi, the things that we were supposed to be dealing with very from the very beginning. and when the families came in, many of them with tears in their eyes, they asked us to do three things -- one, they asked us to make sure that we made sure it did not happen again, they wanted us to look for the facts, more facts than we already had and they asked for one final thing, they asked us to make sure that we don't turn this into a political football. so all we were trying to do is make sure that we defended the truth. >> well, there was one new fact, i think, that a lot of people came away with and that wase& the characterization of the attack itself. there's always been this

was conflating the video issues that took place versus what happened in benghazi that night. one of the e-mails that was turned up was an e-mail secretary clinton sent, i'll put it up here, to our daughter chelsea clinton who, by the way, used the pseudonym diane reynolds in her e-mails and on september 11, that night, secretary clinton classified it as a terrorist attack by an al qaeda-like group. three days later, secretary clinton said this "we've seen the heavy assault on our post in benghazi that took the lives of those brave men. we've seen rage and violence directed at american embassies over an awful internet video that we had nothing do with. >> did that trouble you that there were two stories here and does that deserve an extra line of inquiry? >> no, not at all. as a matter of fact, i thought

the secretary explained it very well.