investigating the murder in mclean hall weren't sure who the victim was, but they'd recognized a young man in photos in the dorm room. they'd seen that same young man when they were patrolling the campus earlier that night. >> i observed a couple coming down the street here on utica street. we could see that he had an open container in his hand. as he kept coming, we intercepted him right here on the sidewalk. i requested his i.d. i could see that it was an open beer can. and i explained to him that we have a local ordinance here that says that you cannot have an open container. >> reporter: did he seem angry? was he agitated? >> no, he was actually -- >> reporter: did he -- >> very cooperative. so i gave him the ticket and they started to walk away right down the sidewalk right here. >> reporter: the young man who got the ticket was clayton whittemore, returning home from a party with his girlfriend, alex kogut. >> and when they left, did they seem fine? >> they seemed normal to me. >> in fact, i was even doing small-talk with the female that he was with, and was able to make her laugh a little bit, so

she didn't let us know. >> so, just a normal couple out on a friday night. and wasn't quite the last of him? >> no, as he, as they both started walking away i observe him drop the beer can. and he just dropped it right onto the ground. and i made a comment that that could be another $100 fine. and he did comply and he went back and he picked it up and after doing that, that's when i saw him cross the street here. and the same time, the female stayed on this side of the street. and then they both continued to walk on separate sides of the street. >> reporter: alex and clayton had been dating for a year and a half by then. they were both from the town of new hartford, in central new york. they got together when alex was in high school. he'd already graduated. now, they were trying to make a go of a long-distance relationship. >> they really wanted to make it work and stuff. and i think it was working. i think she really did love him. >> what kinda things did she say to you about clay, describing him or the time they spent together? >> it was kind of just little

things here and there. like, "oh, i can't wait to see him." like, "i miss him." you could just see it in her eyes, that she really did want to be with him. >> reporter: clayton, number 21, had been a stand-out hockey player in high-school. after he graduated in the spring of 2010, he spent a season playing for a college prep team in florida, living with a host family there. >> he was like the star player. he was the guy that scored the goals. >> reporter: hunter fernandez, one of clayton's teammates, lived with the same host family. >> paint a picture of clayton for us. >> he was hard working. he was a really nice guy. he was funny. we always had a good time. >> did you guys ever get into a little bit of trouble? >> no we never really got into trouble. we were, we were always busy. >> what about girls? did you hang out with girls? or was there time? >> nope. >> partying? >> never. >> drinking? >> he drank once. >> this sounds like the tamest bunch of hockey players i think i've ever heard of. >> yep. >> reporter: it was hardly

surprising that alex was drawn to another athlete. and clayton was a catch. paige whitney, alex's swim team pal knew that. she'd gone through high school with clayton, sat beside him in senior year math class. >> she felt like he deserved a lot more and that she was very, very lucky. >> really? >> yeah. >> so she considered herself lucky that he had chosen her? >> absolutely. >> watching them together, did it seem that he really cared about her, that he really liked her? he was -- >> absolutely. >> happy to be in that relationship? >> yeah, you know, you see them laughing together. you see them, you know, getting along so well. >> reporter: their twitter messages were light-hearted. they called each other "dork" and "freak" and lived out their lives in the twittersphere. before clayton arrived that friday, alex had tweeted "ahhh see you soon." her family liked him, too. they'd given him a care package for her; and her mom had contributed $20 towards gas for the trip. >> reporter: once alex's swim

team meeting ended that day, the couple met up, had some alone time in her dorm room, then went to dinner. alex and samantha were texting of course. >> i asked, you know, like, how she was doing, what she was doing. and she's, like, "oh, well, we're out to dinner right now." and then they went out to a friend's house. and then they came back to the dorm. >> reporter: on the way back, clayton got that ticket, and the cops saw the two walk away separately. then at 12:13 a.m., alex posted a cryptic tweet.t. "should've known" it read. "should've known." >> what do you think it meant? >> it probably does have something to do with clayton, but i don't exactly know. >> reporter: minutes later, alex swiped her card to enter her dorm with clayton. it was 12:17 on saturday morning. so now investigators were desperate to find out where clayton whittemore was. and whether alex was with him. >> luckily, we had all his information from the ticket that lieutenant vasile issued him. >> reporter: but clayton had been a model of co-operation

then. what could he tell them, if anything, about what had happened in the dorm room that night? >> what's your gut telling you happened? >> i couldn't put together what happened because it was so violent. there were so many things that didn't make sense in the room that it was very hard to just say, "okay this is what happened, you know, you know, case closed." >> what were the scenarios that you were thinking of? >> maybe there was an altercation between the roommates. maybe, possibly alex and clayton were on the run and this was the roommate that was on the ground. maybe alex was abducted by clayton. maybe clayton had hurt the roommate. >> a lot of things are running through your mind. >> yes. >> reporter: lots of things on other people's minds, too. at her parents' house, samantha turner, alex kogut's best buddy, was phoning all her friends. when she got through to her roommate, a college official got on the line and told her "there was a situation." >> and then i broke down. and i grabbed my sister and i was, like, "we need to go to

>> at 4:00 in the morning? >> 4:00 in the morning. and got here, saw the police cars. >> you didn't know at this point what had happened still? >> i didn't know exactly who it was. >> reporter: hundreds of miles away, a frantic mother waited, desperate for answers. but when those answers came, they would be unbearable. and they were coming soon from the killer himself. >> coming up -- two frantic phone calls from a mother. >> he said she was breathing and then she said -- >> and her son.

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let there be peace on earth >> reporter: early that saturday morning, steven peglow, a veteran homicide investigator with the monroe county sheriff's

brockport campus. the cops there had a murder on their hands, a body they couldn't identify and a killer on the loose. >> everyone thought they knew what was going on, but nobody really did. and until you got there and started to put the pieces together, you didn't know. >> reporter: as he drove to the campus, investigator peglow reviewed the facts as he knew them, one young woman was dead, another was missing. >> what had been reported was that there was a young lady still alive and that needed help, right then that was, that was my priority in my mind on the way out there. >> were you thinking that clayton had taken alex and had hurt her but she was still alive? or that -- >> yeah. >> someone else may be involved in the whole thing? >> at that point, i was thinking that she was just with clayton and he had hurt her. >> so you're thinking we have to find her immediately. >> yes. >> reporter: but five counties away, a drama was unfolding that would break open this case. about 3:00 a.m. an operator at

profoundly troubled dad. >> yes, my name is scott whittemore, and my son, clayton, just called me and told me he killed somebody. >> reporter: it was a stunning statement even for a 911 dispatcher in the early hours of a saturday morning. but the dad didn't know much. >> okay, where did this happen? >> i don't know. >> where is he right now? >> i don't know. >> reporter: the father reported that his son was in a bad way. >> he's talking about killing himself too. i don't know what's going on for them to not, except that he got in trouble. >> reporter: the divorced dad admitted that he was out of the loop about family matters. now he was doing his best to stave off a tragedy. >> do you know if he has any weapons? >> i don't know. he did ask me for one i have. i have a permit for a pistol he asked me for one. >> and he asked you for your pistol? >> yes. he doesn't have it. >> and did he say what he wanted to do with it? >> kill himself. >> reporter: the dispatcher asked scott to call his son back

to find out more. minutes later the father was back on the line. >> hey, scott, what's up? >> he has a girlfriend out in brockport. his mom thinks he's probably on his way home from brockport. >> reporter: the 911 dispatcher got clayton whittemore's mother on the line. >> hi sandi? >> yes? >> we're trying to find your son. you think he was out visiting his girlfriend at suny brockport? >> what, well he -- he's in canada right now. >> well he's not in canada. >> he's not? >> no. at least his cell phone isn't in canada. if you were just talking to him on his cell phone he's not in canada. >> yeah, okay. >> okay just take a couple deep breaths and, and try to, we're going to try to find him so we can get him some help. >> reporter: the dispatcher got the name alex "kogurt" from the stressed out mom. slightly wrong but it was enough. seconds later, he was on the phone to the campus cops in brockport, and now, finally, the pieces of the story began fitting together.

about an hour ago that said his son called him he and stated that he killed somebody. >> okay, okay. >> we pinged his phone and the son's name is clayton whittemore. >> okay. >> and apparently he's out there with his girlfriend, an alex kogurt at your college. >> yeah, that's who we're looking for. >>: oh you're looking for him? as well, huh? >> yeah we actually had him earlier on an open container at midnight. >> yeah, how's the, is the girl okay? i mean we're just, we're kind of concerned on what's going on. >> no, well the, the uh, we don't know where this alex kogut is. >> okay. >> we can't locate her, but her roommate is a doa. >> reporter: that's the theory the campus cops were acting on: that the roommate was dead and alex was with clayton somewhere. but then, new information from clayton's mom. clayton had just called his sister and told her a frightening story about alex. >> and she said something like he said she was breathing and then she stopped. >> and he said the girlfriend stopped breathing? >> yeah. >> reporter: clayton's mother was beside herself. >> did you get a hold of the

college out there? >> yeah they're looking for him. we don't know what the heck's going on, so everybody's out looking to see if they can find them and make sure they're okay. >> reporter: and then once more that morning the call line lit up at the 911 center in oneida county. this time it was the call everyone was waiting for, clayton whittemore was on the line. >> what's going on there, bud? >> i just, i did something. >> reporter: it was 3:44 am. the horror of what had happened in room 108 would soon be revealed. >> coming up -- who had clayton whittemore killed? >> i didn't know how. i didn't know who. i didn't know anything. i just know she was gone. >> when "dateline" continues.ontinues. boat. for seven hours, we did battle. until i said... you will not beat... meeeeee!!! greg. what should i do with your fish?

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>> reporter: clayton whittemore was at a rest stop on the new york state thruway when he called 911 with a stunning admission. >> i'm turning myself in. i just, i did something that i can't take back and just got to turn myself in. >> reporter: it was almost 4:00 a.m. a frantic hunt that had pulled in multiple police agencies, emergency dispatchers, college officials, and two sets of anguished parents was almost over.

new york state troopers who,you know, were patrolling the thruway that night. >> reporter: sandra doorley is the district attorney of monroe county in western new york. >> they were called to respond right to that dewitt road service area, not knowing what to expect. at that point, it was one dead on the brockport college campus. and perhaps another missing. >> and clayton was there waiting? >> he was. walked over and said "i'm turning myself in." they notice, you know, bloody sneakers and they notice blood on his hands. >> reporter: within seconds, 21-year-old clayton whittemore was cuffed and in custody. now for his car. what could it tell them? >> they wanted to check the trunk. they didn't know if there was a body in the trunk. because at that point, they still hadn't determined, you know, who it was actually on the dorm room floor of room 108. >> reporter: that was about to change. the cops back in brockport, who initially thought the victim might be alex kogut's room-mate,

but where? they started an urgent search. until they spoke to her, they couldn't be certain of the victim's identity because of the hair color. investigator steven peglow. >> the girl lying on the floor had very dark, almost black colored hair. and when you saw the photos that alex had put up in her dorm room of her and clayton, she had much lighter hair. the roommate had darker hair. >> reporter: investigators knocked on students' doors, questioning them. then a nugget buried in a conversation. they learned that alex had recently dyed her hair brown. they had what they needed to i.d. their victim. now they wanted to hear from just one more person, alex's room-mate. when she did call in, finally, they learned she'd been staying in another dorm room. >> we had her come to us, so that we could speak with her, then we were positive. >> reporter: positive that the girl on the dorm room floor was

only 18 years old. best buddy samantha turner, who had rushed back to college early that morning, was devastated. >> i just, i broke down. and i knew at that point my life was changed. >> and you, you just knew what had happened. >> i just -- >> without anyone even -- >>i just knew. >> telling you? >> uh-huh. i didn't know how. i didn't know who. i didn't know anything. i just know she was gone. and i could never see her again. >> reporter: sandra whitney and her daughter paige are family friends of the koguts. paige, remember, was a student at brockport too. her roommate woke her up around >> and she said, "we have to go. we're all meeting together. something happened." and she said, "something happened to alex." i said, "alex -- what?" accident." and i said, "well, is she okay?" i said, "is she in the hospital?"

not." and i said, "has she died?" and she said, "yes." so, i was shocked, and all i could think was, what could've happened to alex in her dorm room? >> reporter: the new york state police were asking clayton whittemore that very same question, that very morning. >> were there problems with your relation, you guys, i mean, your relationship or -- >> no, we were good. >> reporter: clayton put the pieces together for the police about what happened that night and it began with the fact that his relationship with alex wasn't so good after all. the couple had dinner. then the party. clayton said he and alex drank moderately. but at the party he got annoyed with her, said he felt disrespected. >> when i'd say anything to her, you know, she'd, like, raise her voice or something. but if anybody else said anything to her, she'd be all smiley and giggly. >> reporter: as they walked back

open container ticket. >> so, i was already aggravated and it aggravated me more. >> reporter: clayton, remember, walked to the other side of the street to cool off. and then alex posted that final cryptic tweet, should've known. >> we'll never really know what that meant, but -- >> what do you think it meant? >> should have known that, you know what, "maybe we weren't meant to be together. maybe we should break up." >> reporter: at 12:17 am, alex swiped into her dorm. she and clayton entered her room. clayton said they were fighting about cheating. "old stuff" he called it. >> what was she saying? >> she's like, she's like, "i saw a picture on your phone," way back, you know, november of last year or something. >> yeah. >> and, you know, it'll be a picture of my, my sister, for god's sake. >> reporter: then, he told the cops, she got physical. >> she started pushing me and pushing me and pushing me. she kept doing it, and -- >> was she saying anything when she was pushing you? >> the same stuff, you know. >> reporter: but the

alex was tiny. >> you didn't feel threatened by alex tonight, it was more than that right? >> i don't even know what it was. >> don't know how to explain it? >> i don't know if it was my temper, or just her hitting me in general, or pushing me and stuff. >> but you're not hurt, right? >> no. >> she didn't hurt you at all, right? >> no. >> reporter: he told the cops he asked her to stop. but, he said, she wouldn't. and when he offered to leave, he said, she told him to stay. and then this. >> all of a sudden, i just snapped. >> mm-hmm. >> i hit her back. >> where'd you hit her back? >> threw her up against the wall. >> reporter: the attack that followed was savage. unthinkable. in a tiny dorm room, surrounded by sleeping students, clayton

to death. >> reporter: investigator peglow has seen plenty of homicide scenes. but never one like this. >> there was a few of us in the room. and people were like, "okay, well i have blood on this. okay, i have blood on this." and gave you an idea of the rage that had gone on in that room. >> reporter: peglow, who has studied the interview video, says there's one thing he can't forget. clayton told police that near the end, he realized alex's breathing had become labored, that the girl he said he loved, was dying. >> you know it was like watching an animal suffering. >> ok. >> and die. >> yup. >> you know? that's why i did the other stuff that i did. because, you know, someone you love, i'm not going to watch them sit there and suffer. >> yep, okay. >> that's why i did it. >> so, you see her suffering, and you think she's going to die? is that right? >> yeah, i didn't even think, getting help. >> reporter: didn't get help. didn't call l ambulance. didn't occur to him. instead he hit her untilhe died.

said. >> must've seemed almost impossible, how could she be murdered? >> exactly. disbelief, shock. it's not real, it's not real. that doesn't happen. you don't go away to college and suffer that. you just don't. >> reporter: clayton whittemore was charged with second-degree murder. he pleaded not guilty because clayton whittemore had an explanation, and his attorneys would reveal it at trial. >> coming up -- could anything explain such violence? >> it happened my entire life. >> yeah, and you said you saw a

>> i saw it all. >> reporter: it wasn't until the spring of 2014, almost two years ter alex kogut died, that clayton whittemore went on trial. although he told the cops he beat his girlfriend to death, he

entered a plea of not guilty to second-degree murder. prosecutors had a powerful case against him and they knew it. the gruesome images in room 108, the mountain of incriminating evidence. even his words. >> yeah, i didn't even think gettttg help. >> reporter: he was a tickinin titi bomb, prosecutors a aued, a kikier years in the making. >> how does this young man go from star athlete, popular, college student, to what some would call a monster? >> you know, our theory that night was that his anger was just building, building and perhaps fueled by alcohol. >> reporter: prosecutors tried to show that clayton whittemore had already established a pattern of violence. they called ex-girlfriend melinda graniela to testify about one scary episode. >> we were fighting in a parking lot and he had choked me. and he kind of held on for a few seconds. i thouout that he might not t stop.

to cool down, and he did. and it kind of blew over. >> but that one was serious. >> yeah, it was scary. >> reporter: hunter fernandez was also called to the stand. hunter had played hockey on that college prep team in florida with clayton. hunter, too, had a scary experience. it happened after clayton drank a half dozen beers. the one time hunter says, that he saw his teammate drink. >> he walks in the kitchen. then he grabs a knife and he raises it above his head, he looks like he was possessed. he just took a step towards us. and our host mom sees what's happening and she's like, "clayton, put the knififdown." >> reporter: defense attorneys didn't dispute that clayton whittemore killelealex kogut. didn't even try. and they didn't dispute that his anger was years in the making. but, they argued, this wasn't a case of murder. their client was guilty of the lesser charge of manslaughter. why? they said he was under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance when he killed alex

whittemore was a victim himself. >> you know i'm turning myself in for what i did. >> okay. >> the man who called you is the man who should turn himself in. >> reporter: that's clayton talking to the 911 dispatcher, hours after the murder. he's talking about his dad. telling the dispspcher his father had abusesehim and his family for years. >> it happened my entire life. >> yeah. so you said you saw a lot of it, huh? >> i saw it all. i watched myrother get beat with a baseball bat by my own father. i watched my own father break my sister's nose, throw my own mother down to the ground. and beat her. i watched him try to shove a remote controller down the throats of all his children, for fingerprints on his car. >> reporter: the cops in thehe interview room asked him how h h felt about his dad now. >> do you and your dad have a relationonip now?

>> not reaeay. my family, not like people i'm really close to. growing up with my dad, one man i despised. >> your dad? >> reporter: in the minutes before he was arrested, clayton wrote a bizarre apology to alex and the koguts. "sorry to the family and you" he texted. "nothing will ever fix or undo what i did. i became my father. in court, clayton's sister took the stand and supported her brother's story. their father, scott whittemore, did d t respond to datelinins calls. there's no record of complaints against him. but a defense expert, a psychiatrist, testified scott admitted that as a former marine he may have been rough. because of that abuse, the expert concluded that clayton was suffering that extreme emotional disturbance and

snapped in the dorm room. the prosecution begged to differ. >> it's just sad and tragic. and you know what, we never discounted or denied his past. but that doesn't excuse what he did. >> reporter: three weeks after the trial began, the case went to the jury. the verdict was swift. guilty of second-degree murder. >> i just felt this overwhelming sense of relief, that the truth came out, and that there was, there was finally a verdict. it was the right verdict. >> reporter: alex's mom did not attend the trial but followed it closely and tweeted. >> becky kogut, after the verdict, tweeted, "justice for my beautiful baby." did you talk to her? >> oh yeah. >> about the verdict? >> uh-huh. >> and what did she say? >> it was, it was a private conversation between two moms. there were tears, of course. doesn't bring back alex.

it doesn't. >> reporter: clayton whittemore was sentenced d 25 years to life. no among those who know the story of alex kogut's life and death, there is a new awareness about the vulnerability and challenges of young love. especially because, prosecutors say, there was evidence to show clayton had a history of threatening alex. he left angry voicemails on her phone. assistant district attorney meredith vacca. >> there were almost 30 voicemails that she saved from him. they were all of that aggressive, controlling nature, is what we argued to the court to seek admissibility of them at trial. >> reporter: the voicemails were not admitted in courur but prosecutors read an excerpt for "datatine," editing out thth expletives. >> i'll kill you next time i see you. you're a slut and a skank. so don't call me. i'm sick, i'm sick of you." and i left a lot of words out. >> when you add in those

>> it was. these were voicemails that really were scary. >> reporter: those close to alex and her family say they never knew about the voicemails. never knew there was a problem. they say there were no red flags about clayton whittemore. >> that's why it's out of the blue. never saw that coming. >> nothing. totally, totally, caught me off guard. >> reporter: perhaps, for parents, there is a lesson to be learned: ask questions, know what's happening, evenenf there are no warning signs. >> even if they might be not wanting to talk about it, you know, ask those questions. >> reporter: after alex died, sandra whitney and her family started the purple pinkie charitable foundation to campaign against dating violence. purple symbolizes the fight against domestic violence. it was also alex kogut's favorite color. sandra came up with the idea as

teammates. >> and i said, "so paint your pinkies purple, and this is for alex." you have more strength in your little finger than theheorst thing that can come at you. >> repepter: two years laterer there were still purple ribbbbs in alex kogut's hometown. still friends tending a college memorial to honor students who have died, at a college that has itself had to heal. a college that has since opened a center to raise awareness about dating violence. and there are still those, like paige whitney, who will never let the memory of a graceful, joyous, young spirit fade away. >> for the rest of my life, whenever i see purple i will think of her. whenever i hear a story of any type of domestic violence i will think of her. and i will not stop telling her story. that's all for now. i'm lester holol thanks for joiningngs. i mean, that must bototr you. >> no, not at all.

you know, before the show, there handful. i think there were more people against. and before the show started, about 30 minutes before the show started, everybody left. you know why they left? because they went home to watch it. they went home to watch "saturday night live." >> you were comfortable with larry david sort of mocking the protest? >> not only comfortable, it was something i had to agree to and i loved it. i thought it was great. i mean, larry got up and he said certain things, and i fully -- no. that was part of the script, i mean, in all fairness. it was funny and the place was roaring. i can tell you inside the studio they were roarinin we had a good time. it's not a question of -- you know, i'm doing great with t t hispanini, chuck. i'm w wning so many different areas wh hispanics. i employ thousands of hispanics. i'm going to bring jobs back for hispanics. and we're going to win the hispanics. you watch. >> donald trump, i believe we have a face-to-face coming up soon. i know we're close to figuring it out. look forward to it. >> very good. thank you, chuck. let me move to the other side of the aisle, the democratic presidential

candidate number two in the polls these days, independent senator from vermont, bernie sanders. welcome back to "meet the press." let me ask you about this ben carson stuff because you have seen people leak out stuff you wrote 30 and 40 years ago. is this fair game? >> no. look, i listened to the interviews with dr.r.arson, and it's interesting. but you know what, chuck? the american people want to know why the middle class of this country is disappearing, why we have 47 million people living in poverty, why we have massive income and wealth inequality. when you look at dr. carson, to the best of my knowledge, this man does not believe that climate change is caused by human activity. this man wants to abolish medicare, impacting tens of millions of seniors, and this man wants to give huge tax breaks to the rich.

i think it might bebe better idea -- i know it's crazy, but maybe we focus on the issues impacting the amemecan people and what candidates are saying rather than jususspending so much time exploring their lives of 30 or 40 years ago. and i think a lot of people are turned off to the political process is because we're not talking about the issues impacting real people. >> you know, you have been very consistent about this, and i think it's been a very admirable part of your campaign. in fact, you made it clear you didn't want to go after hillary clinton. let me play the many times you said that. >> i am not going to get into the media game, andrea, of attacking, making personal attacks against hillary clinton. i just am not going to do that. i don't think that's what the american people want. if i were to startt viciously attackingg hillary inton, it wowod be all over the front pages of the paper. but i don't do that. i happen to respect and like hillary clinton so i don't get into personal attacks. you know that. >> senator, something seemed to change this week.

a boston globe interview, you said, i disagree with hillary clinton on virtually everything. "wall street journal," you said, consistency of such issues does speak to the character of a person. you spoke about the e-mails where you said at the debate you're tired of the damn e-mails you said let the investigation proceed impeded. are you backtracking here? do you want to target hillary clinton the person? >> not at all. chuck, this is exactly media stuff. my views on hillary clinton's e-mails are exactly what i said in the debate and right after the debate. the american people are sick and tired of seeing on the front pages e-mails. they want a real discussion on real issues. there is an investigation ongoing. i have nothing to do with it. tht's that. but my views on that have not changed. in terms of disagreeing with hillary clinton, yeah, i do, on many, many issues. what i understand politics and elections to be about is to discuss differences of opinion. i intend to do that and do that vigorously. that does not mean that i'm making personal attacks against

i disagree with hillary clinton on whether or not we should break up the large financial institutions in this country. i don't have a super pac. she does have a super pac. we have many different points of view, and i will discuss those vigororsly. >> one of the things you've pointed out is consistency. you belieie that matters. what's wrong wiwi evolving on issues? whaas wrong with that? >> there'e'nothing wrong. everybody evolves on issues. nothing wrong with that. but i think if you look at the important issues facing this country, goink back to 2002, who made the analysis, who looked at what bush and cheney were saying on the war in iraq? it's one thing to evolve and say, well, i made a mistake. it's another thing to analyze the information and say, you know what? i think that war is a terrible mistake. in terms of trade, look, i'm glatd that in recent months hillary clinton has moved to my position on the keystone pipeline, on the transpacific partnership. she's now making a step forward

terms of getting the federal govererent seeing it as illegal. but what people want to know is, who has leadership? who was there in 1996 in terms of doma, the defense of marriage act? so what i think the issue is, who is prepared under difficult circumstances, when it's not necessarily popular, to make decisions which are the right decisions rather than 20 years later say, well, you know, maybe i was wrong or maybe i got to rethink that. >> well, i had a lot more i want to discuss. we're compacted today. but senator sanders, always a pleasure to have you on, sir. be safe on the trail. thanks very much. >> okay. when we come back, the panel will be here to discuss all that we've heard fromomen carson, truu and bernie sanders.s. wha i was ready to serve. i justotten married. i was right out of school. my family's all military. you don't know what to expect. then suddenly you're there... in another world. did my job.

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we're trying to give them all the feeling of being at the stadium. the microsoft cloud gives us the scalability to communicate exactly the content that people want to see.e. it will help people connect to their passion of living real madrid. welcome back to our panelists, radio talk show host hugh hewitt whose show has become a necessary for republican candidates. rachel maddow who hosted a debate on friday, again ifill and mark caputo, nobody owns the political space in florida like mark with rubio and jeb b bh so thanks for coming up.

go canes. >> go canes. >> now we know what this is really about. >> exactly. hugh, let me start with what you heard from dr. carson. i think he's going to go got"the media is being unfair route" does it work for him? >> to quote dr. kissinger, it has the additional benefit of being true. his objection to this week is there were four scandal bus two were reported. marco rubio does not have a scandal, hillary had her non-disclosure agreement revealed at the washington freebie con and reuters obtained a letter from the teneo group refusing to ansnsr questions about hillary clinton. so ere were four scandals, two realalinvolving hillary clinton, one about ben carson, west point, not a scandal, heavily media and the one about marco rubio is all puff. >> why is it not important? >> i have no doubt someone at

the ro said to ben carson "we'll get you in." because it was common in the '70s and the '80s. >> but he's sort of a -- obviously he's a very distinguished retired surgeon. since retiring he's basically a professional autobiography and that's what he does, he sells and sells and sells and sells his autobiography. there are a lot of things, the most dramatic things in his autobiography, all of which are favorable to him and helped selel himself as this amazing person who should be p psident cannot be corroborateded including the factual statement that you cannot get a full scholarship. >> directed a missions are full scholarships. >> no pays. it's not like he got offered to west point and had to pay when other people would have to. that's the impression he gave. >> here's my question. if you get into yale and you are an rotc student, do you doubt someone came to him and said "you need to go to west point by directed a mitt." do you really doubt that happen?

>> what i doubt is a person ought to be president on the basis of their autobiography when they sell that to the country as "i was offered a full scholarship to west point and i turned it down." you weren't offered a full scholarship to wee point, nobody gets a fullll schohoarship to west point and if you're selling yourself, you're not telling it truthfully. >> gwen, you've been on the trail a long time over the years. personal stories. i go toesz me the danger for dr. carson is the fact that his candidacy is built on biography and honesty. >> it is built on saying this is who i am, these are my bootstraps and we all admire that. interesting thing about the outsiders we talk about so much is that they all seem surprised on what it takes to run for president. and what it takes is scrutiny. when dr. carson says there's never been scrutiny like directed at him, that's just not so. i think -- i mean, we were all there when bililclinton went through thehe whole thing with

with the airstrip in arkansas, still we're talking about barack obama's birth certificate years after he was president. there's always the scrutiny and each and every one of those times those folks hated it. they complained. they felt like victims and of course this is the way dr. carson, who has great self-regard, as he deserves to because he accomplished -- >> his objection is the double standard. there is nda story, mrs. clinton is not being covered -- >> and clinton would say there was a report saying the two e-mails that were supposed to be classified were not classified and nobody covered that. >> mama -- >> i'd rather just watch them. >> i knono i know. laughter ] see why we put themext to eachch other? >> patented dynamic. >> the most fun is that they're so civil which is a reminder that that is what at least sunday mornings are about. mark, you had the marco rubio

and it does go to the -- the head scratcher there was it was like a non-issue but what took him so long. >> there's a few things that took them so long. rubio in 2010, first batch of his credit cards got released, credit card statements to the republican party of florida were released on the behest of then-governor charlie crist running against him in the senate and they made the calculation that look, these are private statements and i'm st going to take t t it. years latete they had the luxury of knowing that when he runs f f ppsident they'll have time to analyze his other statements and when they analyze those statements and put them together and pull the bank statements they realized, oh, my god, there's not much here. there's only $65,000 in spending over two years as the head of@ the florida house campaigns which is not a lot of money. so they made the calculation that we'll hold off until the appropriate time and let the donald trumps of the world say this is going to be a disaster. >> it was a setup. i think it was a setup. >> that's what i was going to ask. >> so you believe this was -- >> that was part of it. i think it's part of the marco

rubio strategy. i put it in my story that i wrote. when you look at the hype that built it up and then you look at the expenses, you really have to go out of your way to make it look like a scandal. >> it's very smart. >> david rivera,a,he former member of congress down t tre who was basically chased out via scandal. is that going to be less of a hit on him because of how this credit card thing went down? >> i wouldn't presume to say what will be a hit and what won't. marco will have to answer questions about his relationship with david because david has been in trouble but has been able to avoid indictment at the state and federal level. >> that's the part of this i wonder how much. there was interest calculation. i'm going to hit the pause button. we have so much to cover. we have the democrats. we have the bush family shakespearean drama going on there but we'll change lanes. after the break, the latest on the russian plane and why experts are increasingly convinced it was a bomb that took it down. dianne feinsteieiwill be here,

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victims of that russian plane crash. we don't know what the cause of the crash was yet in egypt's sinai peninsula. u.s. officials are increasingly convinced it was downed by a bomb and attention is focusing on intercepts of chatter between an isis affiliate in the sinai and members of a group in syria. for the latest, i'm joined by the vice chair of the senate intelligence committee, dianne feinstein of california. senator, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> why are u.s. officials so convinced this was a a bomb? >> well,, i t tnk it's an emerging story. i think first off all, yououe got the flight data recorder and the voice recder that rord something that could be an explosion. secondly, it's the nature of isil, i think. isil is now in 12 countries. they do attack after attack. the forensics on the superstructure of the plane need to be done. i'm delighted to hear that the

fbi will be going into the area and will participate and i believe we are sharing our information, intelligence information now. and this is a point i want to make. it is my strong belief thathe united statete and our good llies should sharenformation regarding terrorist attacks. we usually do this and it's important we do this. >> are you concerned we're not sharing with russia because of this rivalry? >> yes. my understanding is that we weren't for a while but i have now heard that we are. i hope that's true. >> do you believe this is a -- look, you've seen the intelligence. i know there's some things you can't share. but everything you've seen, you've seen this stuff in the past. do you believe it was a bomb? >> i think there's a strong probability it was. i can't say it's dead bang certain but there's a strong probability that it was. >> whahadoes this mean?

very big thing for russia. thissas a russian plane with russian people. major attack. russia is in the area. russia is at three bases, has planes, has people. my hope is that russia will take a strong stance against isil and they are not now so doing. most of the attacks are directed toward the moderate opposition and i think the time has come for us also to begin to develop a joint strategy with russia. >> you hope this is a wakeup dual putin? >> i hope it's a wakeup call to putin and i hope to some extent it's a wakeup call to us. i have said before and i really believe it. we will fight them now or we will fight themem later. it's only a estion of time. and they're now in 12 countries. they've done 25 major attacks in these countries outside of syria

this is a huge worldwide problem and we've got to play a major role, the russians should as well. >> if this was a bomb, it looks like the assumption is it got on via airport workers, it didn't get on via the passengers. they seem to have cleared the passengers. the scary thing about this is do we have -- what do we do to screen airport rkers in this country? the deaea busts drug rings all the time. they've done a lot when it comes to airport workers smuggling drugs on planes. that tells you there's smme security holes. well, this is a very complicated area and i think homeland security is doing as good a job as they can. they are now tightening security. the kinds of bombs vary. the one i'm most worried about is the one that there have been four attempts to bring into this country and that's the one that