that sound. >> reporter: then it was time for heath to take the stand. the last time tom had seen his boy was at a hearing, also in court almost a year earlier. >> while you're in the barn, do you hear something? >> yes, i thought it was maybe skylar kinda ran into a wall. either that or a gunshot. >> you think the boys actually were, if not eye witnesses, then ear witnesses. >> eararitnesses to what happened. >> -- to a murder? >> yes. >> reporter: tom schaeffer knew that if he had any hope of getting tom foley acquitted, he'd need to prove the sound those boys heard was anything other than a gunshot. just two weeks before trial began, while inspecting crime scene photos, schaeffer found what may be the key to his client's freedom. >> and i says, "ken, is that what i think it is?" >> it was one of these, "holy crap!" >> it was, to us, just a perry mason moment. coming up -- >> we were together all the

>> reporter: tom foley on the stand with his own fate on the line. >> i wanted to convince the police. i wanted to advice my wife's family. >> could he? when "dateline" continues. for a dramatic transformation without the need for fillers your concert tee might show your age... your skin never will. olay regenerist.

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>> reporter: midway thru tom foley's trial, the talk around coldwater focused on the damaging testimony of skylar wattie and tom's own son heath. >> what do you think was the strongest part of your case? >> the boys. the testimony of the boys. they heard the gunshot. >> reporter: but the defense was about to argue that over time, changed, and in significant ways. >> heath is now stating that it sounds like a gunshot. it's something that he didn't say in the first interview, the same thing with skylar. >> reporter: heath's courtroom testimony left tom furious, not at his son but at his accusers, the people who had cared for heath while tom was incarcerated. >> that's somebody coaching him or encouraging him? >> i believe so. >> coached or not, tom foley's dense team knew from day one they needed to prove the sound those boys heard was tom dropping a window pane on the back steps, and not the fatal gun blast. four days after tom foley's

took a trip to the farm to try and do just that. >> a couple of perry mason moments don't come very often. >> this is the frame that we found. >> reporter: right where tom said he dropped the frame, they found this tiny shard of glass. immediately they tried to match the shard with the framemeom saidide dropped. >> if you take the shard and set it in one of the few remaining intact puttied areas of the frame, you can see it fits perfectly. >> reporter: it was compelling evidence that tom may have been telling the truth, but schaeffer would need more than just a shard of evidence. he next called this woman, jeanette moor, the woman who came forward immediately following tom's guilty verdict and the reason he was ultimately granted a new trial. moor said she was driving past the foley house right around the time dar had been murdered. >> as i approached, this white

have hit him. >> reporter: jeanette moor said she got a good look at the driver. >> it was a young 18 to 20-year-old kid, had real black hair, and his face was real white, and he was clutchin' the wheel just like this. and i thought, he's crazy. he's gonna kill somebody!" >> why didn't you call thehe police? >> i didn't because i was afraid. >> reporter: but when jeanette moor learned about tom foley's guilty verdict, she said she could no longer keep her silence. >> god forgive me, and i truly mean that in my heart, t tt i didn't come forward sooner. if i hadn't have been so darned scared. >> reporter: what followed was a succession of other witnesses, each claiming they too saw mysterious cars, either on or leaving the heath bar farm right around the time of the murder. >> whoever killed dar foley was either in one of those cars or all of three of them

some fashion. >> reporter: but tom foley knew if he had any hope of acquittal, the jury would need to hear from one more witness. >> i call tom foley to the stand your honor. >> i just didn't want to convince the 12 jurors. i wanted to convince the prosecutor. i wanted to convince the police. i wanted to convince my wife's family. i wanted them to know and look at me and hear me. >> reporter: tom started by answering some still nagging questions like how did a yellow plastic bag with shotgun shells in it get into tom's basement. >> did you have dunham's bags in your home? >> yes. >> how do you explain the bag in the basement with the shotgun shells in it? >> they weren't ours. that bag is probably ours. i mean, my fingerprint's on the bag. but for three clean shotgun shells to be in my basement just doesn't make sense.

came from? >> absolutely not. >> reporter: tom said he's never owned or used a shotgun. >> never. wouldn't know how to operate it. wouldn't know the first thing about it. >> reporter: tom schaeffer then asked why tom failed to call his home when dar didn't show up at the birthday celebration? >> something just wasn't right. so that's why i went home. >> if we had cell phones, i would have called her on the cell phone. i had to find her. i had to go and see where she was at. >> reporter: then it was time for tom to describe his it didn't take tom long to lose his composure. >> we were very close. and we were -- >> we were together all the time. >> reporter: tom admitted to the jury he did once flirt with carey zuck, but he says that

the murder during a brief time when he and dar were arguing more than they were communicating. >> that put quite a bit of distance between us, and it also led to intimacy problems between her and i. >> reporter: tom says he eventually told dar about his feelings for carey. he also says he went to counseling to work on their communication problems. >> after those sessions, did things get better? >> absolutely. >> reporter: but then why was it so easy for tom to become intimate with marion crandall so soon after dar's death?? >> this is like three weeks after dar died. >> yes. >> and you're in the house where dar died? >> yeah. >> what am i to think of that? >> think that i don't care about what had just happened to my wife. that's not true. if i could go back and change it, i would.

>> this was an event that involved grief and a reaching out, and it happened. >> do you love your wife? >> i love her very much. >> did you love her on february 7th, 2009? >> very much so. >> did you have anything to do with her death? >> not at all. >> reporter: before closing arguments, the prosecutor had one more card to play in the form of a surprise rebuttal witness who could unravel tom's alibi. >> please state your full name for the record. >> amber rapelje. >> reporter: out of the e esence of the jury, dar's'siece told the court that one week before dar was murdered, she went to the farm to baby-sit heath. >> she told us not to go out in the back porch without shoes because tom had dropped a frame and there might be still some glass out there. >> reporter: but the judge ruled that amber's testimony was hearsay and therefore inadmissible. the jury never heard her challenge tom's claim that what

murdered was him dropping a window frame. >> reporter: now, with the evidence that was admitted, and for the second time in two years, a jury was about to decide tom foley's fate. >> my stomach was turning. i wasn't eating. i was physically sick. >> coming up -- another verdict brings anonoer shattering moment. >> he collapsed to the floor and

>> as he did in the first trial, >> as s did in the first trtrl, attorney tom schaeffer prepared to address the jury for what he and his client, tom foley, hoped would be the last time. >> when your defense rested, were you comfortable?

>> you thought you were going to win? >> very much. yep. >> you thought that once before? >> yes, i did. >> apparently, the theory of the prosecution is if a marriage ever has a bump in the road, then that is a motive for murder. is it rereonable? i suggest t t. >> reporter: tom foley, he says, had nothing to do with dar's death, but those mysterious cars did. >> those cars should not have been there. >> and the prosecution has not given you any explanation why they were there because there is no other e elanation other than that they had some connection with the death of dar foley. ladies and gentleman of the jury, i submit to you there's more than reasonable doubt. i respectfully ask you to find tom fofoy "not guilty." >> reporter: then came prosecutor terri norris' turn, and she started by attacking the

who say they saw the cars. >> if you were to believe that all of these vehicles were there, there was a party at the with a bunch of white cars and a black suv. that makes no sense whatsoever, none. >> reporter: terri norris wanted this jury thinking only one thing. >> who had the motive? it's tom foley. whose fingerprints were on the bag of shells in the basement? tom foley. >> tom foley is "guilty" and i'm asking you to bring back that verdict. >> reporter: the outcome of tom's second trial was far from certain. what worried you ththmost? >> just that he e s such a nice guy that you would h he never guessed that he would've done something like this. >> he didn't seem like a murderer. >> right. >> reporter: and then at the fabled eleventh hour, it was time. the jury filed in. were they looking at you? the jurors? >> no, they weren't. i took a couple of deep breaths.

>> your honor, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. >> the waiting had -- it had paid off. >> as to count two, not guilty. >> the reaction of tom at the time of the verdict. absolutely incredible. he collapsed to the floor and wept for twenty minutes. unbelievable. >> he got away with murder, but he almost didn't. >> we had it. we had him convicted and to actually have to go back and talk with that family and give them some consoling, how do you do that? >> you're just angry, and you're angry y the jurors, the judud, and there's nothing you can do about it. >> i was more concerned about heath at that point, because i knew that he knew his father killed his mother, and i couldn't imagine having to go

killed your mother. >> yeah, get it. >> reporter: tom has regained custody of heath. and he treads very carefully when discussing that tragic day with his boy. >> from him i at least want to know, 'why do you think i did this?' i deserve that answer. and all he could say is, "i don't know who else it could have been." >> reporter: tom says he will never forget dar. >> i still think she's beside me. i'm going to continue to raise our son the way that we wanted him to be raised. >> do you harbor any grudge because of this? >> all i can say is they made a mistake, and that's all i am asking is that they search and search and search until they find dee dee's killer. >> reporter: according to prosecutor norris, there would be no point to that search. you're not investigating anymore? >> there's no one to investigate.

of anybody else ever having committed this crime. >> reporter: this boyhood hero wrote a whole new set of headlines as an adult, and coldwater may never be the same. as for thoho who remain convinced of tom's guilt, they cling to the memory of the one they lost and loved so much. >> are you ready? >> reporter: they gathered to release balloons in dar's honor. >> she loved to be the center of attention. , this is her center of attention. >> two, one. >> they rise closer to where she is at, and hopefully she sees that we're thinking about her. >> we love you, dar. >> that's all for now.

thanks for joining us. this sunday, donald trump is still leaping ahead and nothing he says seems to slow him down. >> i know where she went. it's disgusting. i don't want to talk about it. >> will 2016 will the year the plit lolitical establishment gets toppled? i'll be joined by bernie sanders, another outsider who upset the old political order. also, the commander-in-chief test. with america facing challenges on a scale notseen since 11, which candidate is best qualified to keep us safe at home and abroad. and film director spike lee on america's gun culture. >> why are we okay with that 88 americans die everyday from gun violence? why are we okay with that? joining me for insight and analysis are matt bai of yahoo! news, helene cooper of the "new york times," amy walter of the cook political report, and michael gerson of the "washington post."

it's "meet the prere." good sunday morning, i'm andrea mitchell in for chuck todd who is takiki a well-deserved holiday brbrk. 12 months ago, most polical pundits would have laughed in your face if you suggested that by the end of the year donald trump would have a commanding lead in the race for the republican nomination and bernie sanders would be giving hillary clinton a run for her money on the democratic side. but 2015 has been a year when conventional wisdom was turned on its head. the big question for 2016 is whether the old order can reassert itself. in a moment, i'll be joined by bernie sanders. but this christmas week, there wasn't any peace and goodwill from trump as he used a vulgar term to refer to hillary clinton's 2008 defeat to barack obama. and kriltcriticized her for taking a bathroom break during last week's democratic debate.

know wherehe went. it's disgusting, i don't want to talk about it. >> clinton hit back, cusing trump of using degrading and sexist language. >> nothing really surprises me anymore. i don't know that he has any boundaries at all. and his bigotry, his bluster, his bullying have become his campaign. my next guest, bernie sanders responded with humor. >> i'll be honest with you, i've got to lay it out, i also went to the bathroom. [ laughter and applause ] >> sanders has shown surprising strength in the early voting states and in some hypothetical matchups against trump. but what is his path to the nomination? senator sanders joins me from burlington, vermont. welcome back to "meet thehe press,","appy holidays, senator. >> happy holidays to you and all of your viewers. >> thank you very much. let's talk about the data breach and the dustup between you and the democratic party. you fired one staffer, suspended

has any other action been t ten? any update now o o this dispute? >> well, we're trying to work with the dnc to put this whole thing behind us. there were two breaches. we screwed up on one and the other one we did the right thing. right now we're in negotiations with the dnc. frankly, andrea, i think for the american people there are far more important issues having to do with the disappearance of the american middle-class and huge income and wealth inequality and climate change and the corrupt campaiai finance system so i think on both sides we''d like to focus on the real issues. >> while you're trying to, as you point out, focus on the real issues, there have been charges of sexism back and forth between clinton. he used a vulgarar term against her and then said it wasn't really that vulgarment then she said she's going to have bill clinton campaigning in january and he tweeted out in the last 24 hours "hillary clinton has

husband out to campaign but he's demonstrated a penchant for sexism. so inappropriate." are we going to get into an argument not only of sexism between donald trump and hillary clinton but donald trump attacking bill clinton? >> well, i tell you what, we're going to let my wife jane out and i think hillary's going to be in real, real trouble. but, look, the real issues are not donald trump's vulgarity, and he is vulgar. it is the fact that donald trump thin we should not be raising the minimum wage. he believes that wages in america are too high. this guy wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top three-tenths of one percent and meanwhile what he wants to dois divide our country between latinos and americans and between muslims and everybody else. that's not the kind of america we need. andrea, what we have got to do is ask the hard questions and

people are the top are doing phenomenally well while almost everybody else has seen a decline in their real incomes? why is it that we're not effectively addressing the fact that climate change is absolutely real? i am in burlington, vermont, right now. nobody can recall a christmas eve the likes of which we have seen where the temperature was 65 degrees. and what the scientists are telling us, if we don't get our act together, we're going to be leaving a planet to our kids and grandchildren, which is not going to be in good shape. and yet donald trump among others denies even the reality of climate change let alone doing something about it. so we've got some really importantssues to discuss in this campaign and i intend to do just that. >> while these are really important issues, what recent polling shows is that americans since paris, since san bernararno are more concerned about terrorism, threat of terrorism, than they are about the economy. at least according to the polling. and, in fact, you had pulled

clinton in a recent cnn poll taken before last saturday night's debate but the margin widened to 33 points among those polled after the saturday night debate which shows it's tilted heavily on foreign policy. doesn't it show that you still, among people who are concerned about foreign policy, concerned about terror, you really have some grounun to make up against hillary clinton? >> you know, it's interesting the way cnn spun that poll. because you know what that poll showed? it showed between their last poll and this current poll we gained is 12 points on hillary clinton. she dropped eight, we went up by four. that's the message of the poll. another poll came out, rasmussen also showing up and closing the gap. in new hampshire, some of the recent polls have us ahead and in iowa we're close to catching up to her. showing is that the american people are responding to our

now in terms of isis and foreign policy, these are, of course, huge issues. the american people are concerned about another terrorist attack and what i have said over and over again, we must destroy isis, but we must do it in a way that is smart. >> at the same time, the polling has shown that on foreign policy and on isis that you are far, far behind hillary clinton. and you have said that you would somehow persuade thee saudis to stopop fighting in yemen and turn their attention to isis, no one else has been able to get that -- to persuade the saudis to to do that. how could you as commander-in-chief do what other presidents have failed to do in terms of getting the saudis to listen to what america wants for the fight against these terror groups? >> well, it's -- what has got to happen, and certainly the united states and the other major powers have a great deal of leverage. a, it can not be the united states alone. b, what many people in the kiddle east understand, it must

ground destroying isis. so what we need is, in fact, a coalition. saudi arabia, qatar arere incredit kbli wealthy countries and they have got to start using some of their resources to help us destroy isis rather than in the case of saudi arabia fighting in yemen. in the case of qatar spending hundreds of billions of dollars in preparations for the world cup in 2022. so what i think american leadership is about is putting together that international coalition to destroy isis. but let me also say this, andrea. i know sometimes the media thinks that is the only issue. it is an enormously important issue. we have got to defend america, we have got to destroy isis. but right now people are watching this program who are 55, 60 years of age. they have zero dollars in their retirement account. they're wondering how they're going to make in the their old age which is why we have to expand social security. there are millions of young people throughout desperately

want to leave college deeply in debt. we have got to deal with that issue. we are the only country on earth that doesn't provide family and medical leave, doesn't provide health care f f people a a right. so my view is, yes, course we've got to focus on foreign policy, we have to destroy isis. but i will not stop fighting for working families and the middle-class. will not stop taking on a billionaire class w wse greed in many ways is destroying our economy. >> now, as you let into these early voting stating, you have to win new hampshire, your neighboring state. you're ahead in most polls there. do you feel the democratic party led by debbie wasserman schultz is trying to sabotage your campaign and not being an impartial arbiter going into these early fights? >> well, as you've indicated there's no question that both iowa and new hampshire are enormously imimrtant for me d

when i began this campaign, andrea, we were nationally at 3% and 4% in the polls. we were way, way behind in iowa, way, way, behind in new hampshire. in new hampshire i think we're a little ahead, in iowae're clososg the gap. so in my view we've got a real shot to win iowa. we've got a real shot to win new hampshire. i am going to be sending a lot of times in the next four or five weeks in iowa, in new hampshire. we have a wonderful grass-roots organization, a lot of volunteerer knocking on doors d -- and -- if we can win in iowa or new hampshire, i think it really does open us up to a path toward victory. >> is the dnc giving you a fair shot? >> look, we have had our differences of opinions with the dnc. but at the end of the day, the dnc, hillary clinton, and myself, we want to defeat right wing extremism in this country. so we're trying to work out our differences of opinion. >> well, senator, thank you very much a a a happy holiday to you

>> thank you very much. i'm joined now by florida congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz, chair of the democratic national committee. welcome, happy holidays to you. >> thank you, andrea, to you as well. >> first of all, what aboutut donald trump and this new attack he has unleashed on twitter against bill clinton campaigning for hillary clinton more actively in january? >> you know, my assessment of donald trump's candidacy is that he's been an equal-opportunity insulter. he has engaged in some of the most vulgar invectives and rhetoric and really brought this presidential campaign, its tone and where the debate is on the other side of the aisle to the lowest steps i've ever mean? a presidential campaign. so much so that my own daughters when seeing his commentary on tv asked me, "mom, why is he so rude"? that's not what we should strive

presidential candidates on either side of the aisle. we're supposed to want our children to emulate at least the leadership and values even if you don't agree with them of our presidential candidates and unfortunately what's going on on the other side of the aiie has taken this to a new low in presidential politics. >> does it raise questions as to whether there is some risk involved in unleashing bill clinton as popular a figure as he is in the democratic party, he had his problems in 2008, we saw what happened in that campaign. but if he -- donald trump is going to raise this issue, as he is warning, of bill clinton's past and sexism, does that give you any pause as democratic chair? >> i think that donald trumum or any candidate on the other side of the aisle would raise bill clinton as somehow a negative to their peril. i think every poll i've ever seen shows that if president clinton were a candidate tomorrow he'd be reelected.

the longest period of prosperity, sustained up to that point, finished his term very popular and continues to be one of the most admired elected officials and former elected officials and men in the world. >> what about sexism in this campaign? donald trump claims that he was not using a vulgar term when he said that clinton had been schlonged by barack obama in her defeat in 2008. >> well, i will tell you -- >> your take on that? >> growing up in my house as a little girl, had ised that term or had anyone used that term around my grandmother or my mother, it would certainly have been considered vulgar and would have resulted in a pretty severe punishment as we received any time we used a term that was inappropriate. donald trump, marco rubio, ted cruz, the larger issue on the republican side of the aisle is

poll shows that are harmful to women, whether it's defunding planned parenthood -- >> but more to the point of the sex. they has been alleged, the bullying by hillary clinton against donald trump because i think necessaryhe is in a class by himself -- >> he certainly has taken it to a new low. >> this is partly what he had to say about hillary clinton's campaign energy. >> she does an event, she puts on her pants suit, she walks in -- [ laughter ] no, it's true. she walks in, does an event, you don't see her for fourdays, five days. you know why? she goes back home and she goes to sleep. this is not what we need as a president. we need tremendous energy. >> now this low-energy criticism worked against jeb bush. it really hurt jeb buss is it going to work against hillary clinton? >> like i said, donald trump has been an equal opportunity insulter. he's insulted and been vulgar about not only secretary clinton

even me. it's -- it's really outrageous the depths and how low he has allowed the campaign to sink and the rest of the republican field, andrea, is going along with it. >> why is it working so well for him. in his head, hypotheticals, he's doing so well against hillary clinton. >> it's very simple. why he's doing so well in the republican field is because this is where the republican party of today is. they embrace defunding planned parenthood, they don't believe in equal pay for equal work, they don't believe that we should make sure that women have an opportunity to make their own health care choices. this is not where americans are today. americans are where the democratic party is. where hillary clinton and bernie sanders and martin o'malley are, wanting totoontinue the economimi prosperity that we've been able to create, bringing us from the worst economic crisis since the great depression forward through 69 straight months of job growth.

continue because we'll elect one of those three candidates as the 45th president of the united states. >> we'll have to leave it there but thank you so much democratic party chair. after the break, sexism, islamophobia islamophobia, why has this campaign been so ang rirks including again i'm mary ellen, and i quit smoking with chantix. i haha smoked for thirty years and by taking chantix, i was able to quit in thr months. and that was amazing. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it absolutely reduced my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood d suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some had seizures while taking chantix. if you have any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse or of seizures. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you have these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have heart or blood vessel problems,

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welcome back. lots of floix dispolitics to discuss with the panel. matt bai, national politicaca columnist for yahoo! news, helene cooper, amy walter editor of the cook political report and michael gerson, a former chief speech writer for george w. bush and "washington post" columnist now. welcome all.l. amy walter, first to you. clearly a truce between bernie sanders and debbie wasserman schultz on that. but what about donald trump going after hillary clinton? going after bill clinton? does this work for him? >> well, it has thus far. look, i think donald trump has done something unique in this campaign which is he has understood the republican electorate better than any of the republican candidates going there and he's understood the media environment in which he can make these pronouncements. the problem for donald trump, though,isfor as well as he is doing currently on the republican side, he continues to make himself less electable in

you look at where his negatives are, they're higher than hillary clinton's. if you look at the matchups between donald trump and hunkillary clinton in a general election, he's the only candidate losing to hillary clinton in some cases by more than ten points. so for as much as this is getting him the attention he loves and adores and is getting him the crowds of republicans is pushing him further and further away from the possibility of actually winning a general election. >> at the same time, matt bai, she has had difficulty energizing younger women, millennials, is this attack by donald trump going to help her energize the women support that she really needs? >> it could. i mean, hillary clinton might be having the luckiest year of any nominee in recent memory. she's had bernie sanders who, you know, is going to wage a real fight in those early states but ifou had told early on, this is going to be your only serious opponent, she would have had happy about that.

or ted cruz who give her a great platform. so she's up against a very difficult historical win, trying to get a third term for her party. she would be the oldest nominee, the oldest president taking office we've seen but all of that won't matter very much if she's very lucky in who she draws and to this point she's looking very lucky. >> helene cooper, we saw bernie sanders even today not talking about foreign policy. he started our interview talking about climate change, economic disparity. his wheel house. even after the most recent polls show he really lost ground in that debate last saturday night when he failed to respond effectively, according to those polls, on foreign policy. >> that's absolutely true. and i think that he's just not that comfortable there. he doesn't want to talk about it. you see him -- and you see many of the republican candidates, as well, when it comes to foreign policy, they repeat the same talking points and they say that we need a coalition. a lot of the thinn that they say that we should be doing are thing, i would add, that the

so it's just sort of -- watching them, i felt that way as well with the republican debate, the last republican debate where these guys are talking and coming out with these phrases that are designed to make them seem as if they're being strong but when you look behind the sort of rhetoric and there's not much there there, when you ask for specifics, as you did, you didn't hear a lot coming back. >> and, of course, we are so disliked, we in the media collectively are so disliked? >> speak for yourself, andrea. >> i'll speak for all of us on this point. donald trump made this clear and he does this at his rallies to the real discomfort of a lot of the reporters covering. let's watch. >> i would never kill them. [ laughter ] i would never do that. um -- let's see. well -- no, i wouldn't. i would never kill them. but i do hate them. >> have you ever seen donald trump and the drunk uncle on "saturday night live" weekend update together?

imitation. but michael gerson, to the serious point of the level of invective. i haven't seen this, frankly, since george wallace campaign where attacks on the media at rallies, you know, rely were one of the signature effects. >> it's important to realize what context this was in. he was praising vladimir putin who is someone who is,has, you know, imprisoned and killed journalists. and this is where we need to make the distinction between the ridiculous and the dangerous. this is a man now flirting with authoritarianism, praising the leadership style of vladimir putin. so his divisive rhetoric, extreme policies and now he's praising a leadership style that really flirts with authoritarianism. this is a serious, serious matter. >> but, of course, it is working and matt bai, you wrote memorabab this week why. that we are somewhat to blame. in fact, you wrote "it's clear

popularity is in no small part a reflection of an acid disdain for us. this is a simmering reaction to smugness and shallowness in the media, a parade of glib punditry unmoored to any sense of history or personal experience. it's about our love of gaffes and scandals real or imagined and our rigid enforcement of the politically correct." discuss. [ laughter ] >> oh, i've heard some discussion. cook, i've made this point,it's not always popular. we treat presidential politics and politics in general like a reality show and we have for years. if you've been following the imimdiate i can't go media in this campaign, we set up ncaa brackets to match the seeds in the campaign. we order up every kind of garbage poll you can fid. we literally treat our candidates as contestants on a game show to be voted off and voted on. and i think there's a cost for that. you set up a platform where

exploit it because he is the perfect reality show candidate and there is this symbiosis with the meded and trump. at this point i thinknk he h h to be covered toto the extent he is because he is clearly leading late in the polls but there was a long period in the campaign where i think we exaggerated his support because it brought ratings and clicks and i think we did a great dissrvice to the country. >> let's leave that here for a moment. we'll be back. when we come back, the war against isis and the major foreign policy challenges facing the next president. which candidate is best qualified to be commander in chief? this is a story about doers, the artificial heart, electric guitars and rockets to the moon. it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. doers built this country. the dams and the railroads. john henry was a steel drivin' man hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. and all this doin' takes energy o matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of doin' up in here. or what they're doin'.

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welcome back. from beijing to baghdad, america is confronting incredible challenges on a scale not seen since the days immediately after 9/11. after the parisis and san bernardino terror attacks, which candidate should be trusted to sit in the oval office? the big question for voters in 2016. the commander in chief test. which candidate will be able to handle crises around the wld

in afghanistan, america's longest war, just this past week, the worst u.s. troop losses in three years. >> it's still dangerous, as we saw this past week. we had some outstanding brave men and women who were killed. >> in iraq, sunnis and shiites struggle for power. syria is in shambles and isis is on the march from iraq and syria to libya, afghanistan, and beyond. who can defeat the terror group? donald trump says let vladimir putin do it. >> if russia wants to bomb them, let them bomb them. >> but it's putin, along with iran, who has kept syria's brutal dictator, bashar al assad, in power. >> russia and iran have to face the fact that continuing to prop up a vicious dictator will not bring stability. right now, i'm afraid, president putin is actually making things somewhat worse. >> unlike obama, hillary clinton has called for a no-fly zone over syria.

advocated for a no-fly zone is in order to create those safe refuges within syria. >> but with putin now flying air strikes over syria, evenen she now acknowledges this is more complicated. experts warn the u.s. could find itself in a dog fight with russian fighter jets. >> russians planes flying combat missions, you have advanced russian weapon systems, that means our abilitit to o oerate is that much less. >> all this as the syrian conflict produces a flood of refugees, overwhelming europe and becoming an explosive campaign issue at home. >> donald j. donald trump is calling fofo a totall and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> president obama and hillary clinton's proposal to bring to america tens of thousands of syrian muslims is nothing short of lunacy. >> and now one dissenting republican voice has been forced

>> donald trump has done the one single thing you cannot do -- declare war on islam itself. >> i'm joined now from palo alto by mike mcfall, former ambassador to russian that under president obama and wendy sherman, who recently stepped down as undersecretary of political affairs at the state department. wendy sherman, how is this anti-muslim rhetoric having an impact on our foreign polili and relationships with allies?s? >> it's incredibly dangerous, andrea. this kind of islamophobia is playing right into the recruitment by the jihadis of people from all over the world. it is alienating the very people that we need to be working with us. this has to be led bin the muslim world, this effort to defeat isis. the united states is an important partner in that effort, but we can not do it alone, we should not do it alone, and, indeed, this kind of rhetoric is only pushing people away from us when we need ththm the veryy most.

leading rebel leaders in syria was killed reportedly by russian strikes, indicating do some that vladimir putin is playing both sides and really disrupting the peacerocess that would be critical to any succesesul fight against isis, the peace process that was just being launched to try to negotiate an exit strategy for assad. what role is vladimir putin playing with his surprising entry in september into the middle east crisis and his air strikes in syria? >> well, let's be clear, the reason why he went into syria was to support assad. he said that to his own people. he has to justify why he did this military intervention. it was to support assad. and first and foremost, that has meant attacking those that we support. now, over the last couple of weeks, there's been some signs that he might attack isis, but as you just rereorted, they aree still going after thhe that we

solution in terms of a plitical transition. >> which raises the point about the wisdom of donald trump and what he has had to say, embracing vladimir putin. let me play that for both of u. >> at least he's a kwlooerd,leader, unlike what we have in this country. i've always felt fine about putin. i think that he is a strong leader. he's a powerful leader, he's represented his country, that's the way the country is being represented. he's actually got popularity within his country, they respect him as a leader. >> mike mcfaul, first to you. >> there's so many things that are wrong with that statement on so many different levels. first of all, vladimir putin does only things that are in russia's national interest. so for him to be endorsing mr. trump, that's because he think it's in russia's national interest for mr. trump to be the leader in the united states. second, the part -- you didn't

the part i found most reprehensible when responding to that question on "morning joe" was the moral equivalency between what the united states does abroad in terms of our armed forces and what putin does domestically. trump basically said that what soldiers in afghanistan are doing and pilots in syria are doing is the same thing as those that kill journalists in russia. that is not in america's natitinal interest. >> both of you have served in this administration, wendy sherman, you served in the prior one as well. chuck hagel, the former defense secretary, had some sharp criticism in "foreign policy" magazine of this administration. saying in a piece headline "the white house tried to destroy me. whether it was the right decision or not --" he's referring to the decision not to go against assad after assad crossed the redline president obama announced on the use of chemical weapons. "whether it was the right decision or not, history will determine.

credibility of the president's word when this occurred. a president's word is a big thing and when the president says things, that's a big deal." did the president hurt his leverage overseas? especially in the persian gulf with arab leaders by note using force against assad back in 2013? >> i think what we have to look back to 2013 is to see that, in fact, what the president did working with secretary kerry -- and i was part of that effort as well -- was to get chemicalal weapons out of syria, which was very critical. because if we had this situation now where assad had chemical weapons, we would have an even more dire circumstance. but i think the point today, andrea, is that we have to be as secretary clinton has said about resolve, not a aout fear. that's what america is about. and the president and, quite frankly, the democratic candidates, have talked about a multipronged strategy, not just slogans. slogans are not a strategy but it's multipronged strategy that not only defeats isil but stops

isil, make sure we take care of this not only for the immediate but the long term as well. america matters in the world. our leadership matters in the world and we see that every single day. >> but mike mcfaul, isil is spreading. they're putting down roots in kenya, nigeria, afghanistan, spreading their message of hate and terror even though they may be losing some ground short term in iraq and syria. what is the solution to this? >> the solution is a multipronged long-term strategy, as wendy just alluded to. it's not going to be easy. it's not going to be a slogan. i do think the administration has undersold its policy, as the president hinted at a couple weeks ago. i want to remind your viewers, when i hear candidates say "the united states is doing nothing to fight isis" there's actually been 9,000 attacks against isis

we've spent over $5 billion already in that theater alone. but nobody believes that there's going to be a victory over isis through an air campaign. and that's why weeed to have the multipronged strategy, including our muslim allies. because at the end of the day, it's going to be muslim soldiers in iraq and in syria that are going to ultimately defeat isis it won't be the united states aane. >> > ke mcfaul, wendy sherman, thank you smuch. we have to leave it there. happy holidays, happy new year to you both. coming up next, spike lee on his controversial movie "chi-raq" and the conversation he wants his film to inspire. >> i want people to think so what's your news? i got a job! i'll be programming at ge. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. (friends gasp) the app where you put fruit hats on animals? i love that! guys, i'll be writing code that helps machines communicate. (interrupting) i just zazzied you. (phone vibrates) look at it! (friends giggle)

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