>> after a lifetime of christian living, professional golfer wally armstrong talks about discovering new joy through practicing the presence of jesus. that's next on "significant insights." >> hello and welcome to significant insights. i'm jerry rose. if you were to write down some of the most popular names for jesus, what would be on your list? savior, lamb of god, messiah, emanuel, the prince of peace. would good friend show up on your list? well eight years ago, the word "friend" probably would not have made pro golfer wally armstrong's list. wally spent nearly four decades devoted to performing to please

jesus christ. but it wasn't until about eight years ago that he really started to experience jesus as his friend and, when he did, it transformed his life and his faith. he's written about it in a book entitled "practicing the presence of jesus" and it's wally's hope that, if anyone is going through a spiritually dry season or is looking for a closer relationship with christ, that they will benefit from what he's learned. but first, we started our conversation with a little bit of background into his life on the professional golf circuit. let's talk about your career as a professional golfer. >> mm-hmm. >> in your first masters appearance, you set a rookie record. eight under par. what's that experience like? it had to be pretty heady. the masters, that's the ultimate. >> it really is. >> the ultimate in golf. and there you were, a rookie, and had that kind of a golf

outing which i'm sure gave you a lot of recognition. >> absolutely. it was a dream come true. i grew up in indianapolis in the cornfield of indiana in a little nine-hole elks club. i grew up looking for golf balls in the cornfields and selling them over the fence. then i started caddying like a lot of young players and got the bug for golf. and, then the to walk off that 18th green at augusta and look up on the board and see i had finished fifth, it was a real thrill, but the greatest thrill was being in the group right behind jerry player who won the tournament. shot 64 the last day. and just to stand in the fairway and see him make that putt and pump his fist. i remembered 10 years before i was caddying for him in college. >> no kidding. >> on the tour. and it's a crazy story, but he actually fired me because i left a bunch of bananas in his golf bag and ruined all of his rain gear and gloves but he

encouraged me it play on the tour because as a brand-new believer in christ, he said if you ever get on the tour you will be at the peak of your profession. he was believer. >> he was a pretty committed christian. >> he really was. i met him at the chapel. that's how i got to caddy for him. he said if you can ever get out here, i disciplined myself and worked hard to qualify. >> when did you know, being in the cornfields of indiana, when did you look in the mirror and say i could be a professional golfer? >> you know, i wanted to be a pro, i really wanted to be a college golf coach. that was my passion. when i met christ, i hadn't -- i was number two, number three man on the floor of the golf team. but really didn't have any aspirations for playing on the tour. but when i met gary player and he encouraged me, that really gave me the drive to do it. because i came out of a real difficult family background with

an alcoholic father who beat me up mentally, told me i was stupid and dumb and that's where i had all this energy to perform. how i'm going to please him and it never seemed to be able to. >> for him? >> for my dad. >> to try to get his approval somehow? >> just never could get it. one tournament after another, i was number one in wrestling in the state. and you know, when that doesn't ever come, then you just become as performance driven human being and unfortunately when i met christ, i transferred all that human doingness to god. now i had a god that loved me and the thing that really hurt is that i took the face of my dad and put it on the face of jesus so i never felt like he was approachable. i never felt like i met his expectations. you know? >> so like a lot of guys -- like a lot of women, for that matter, who grow up in that kind of environment. everything was perceived as i'm as accepted as my performance. >> absolutely.

you are totally -- you find your significance in your performance on how you can earn that respect, how you can earn, how you can meet expectations that you never meet with your own father. and then, of course, when you live with this loving god and you think well, i've got to prove to him i'm a good kid, i'm going to work hard, discipline myself, and i went at, you know, the christian life in the same way. you know? i would read hundreds of books and journaling and memorizing scripture, sharing christ, leading bible studies. and yet inside, there's something missing. i want to be an authentic believer. but, i never felt close to jesus and i think it was just because i just never felt like i earned his respect and because i just still felt like i fell short of where i needed to be. >> for a good portion of your life, in the book, you talk about the fact that your life was sort of an up-and-down kind of relationship with christ. a lot of feelings of failure

because you never felt you could measure up. how did you deal with that? that's not the wally armstrong today. >> i just performed. i mean i just disciplined myself more. i journaled and i studied and i memorized scripture and i was in a high-performance church, a p.c.a. church that gt into theology, i was studying and i really liked that side. i took mission trips and it's easy to get involved. you think well that's going it let me get closer to christ. >> did you feel closer to christ? >> there were times. >> like a good christian? >> there were times. i thought if i can just change, get myself together, then i'll make it. but that all changed eight years ago when i really had a personal confrontation with the resurrected living jesus. >> tell me about that. what does that mean? >> well, i was in the midst of reading another one of these books by dallas willard, a famous wonderful writer, about

the spiritual disciplines and i finished the book, about how you need to have more prayer and discipline and journaling and, you know. and, i thought i'll go back and read through this book again. i went to the pref answer. in, there he said that we have a great opportunity to reach out to the world with the companionship of god that transforms friendship of jesus that is spoken about by a pastor from london. i thought wow that's interesting. transforming friendship. i mean i don't have a friendship with jesus. i'm a work horse. i'm a slave. i work hard to please. >> pardon me, but were there times when you woke up in the morning saying i wonder if i pleased god enough that he is accepting me? >> i don't know if it was that. i think it was just in my heart, i just felt insecure, just like why is it taking me so long to

catch, am i missing something? so, you know, when i saw this word, transforming friendship, i ordered this book written in 1929 online and i couldn't wait it see well maybe it has some answers. in the first sentence it says in our quest to really know christ you have to have a clear picture ofim in your mind. i didn't have a clear picture. i tried to connect with a jewish rabbi. i knew he was there sometime but certainly wasn't with me when i wasn't, you know, when i was sinning or wasn't reacting or acting a certain way but he said take these images you might have of jesus in your mind, maybe something you saw him as a stained glass window. michael angelo painted jesus as italian. he was one of them. so he said imagine what jesus would be like today if he was a

modern person like you or me, walked into a room, sat down and looked you in the eye and said i just want to be your friend. just tell me about yourself. what would his personality have to be like for you to feel comfortable having this conversation with him? well, i just got -- like i never thought that. i thought is jesus really alive where i could talk to him like that? he goes on to share that he tried an experiment in his own life. he came home, worn out, and sat back in his chair and just was even too tired to pray and he left the door of his mind ajar waiting for the friend. and then he said the friend came. and when i read that, i thought -- you know, i need that. and, i said i will try this experiment. i sat back in my chair and said jesus, if you are really there and i know you are, show me who you would be like today so i can connect with you on that level as a friend and a companion. and i had this vision of standing on a putting green looking over the green for

jesus. all after sudden i saw a guy in khaki pants and a golf hat, helping a little junior golfer putt. it was at that moment that he said now, in my spirit, he said talk it me like a fellow golfer. talk to me that way. and as soon as i recognized him, then he turned his shoulder and then he was, boom, he was right next to me in my den. the reality of his presence was a first-time experience. and i kind of cracked my eyes and i could almost see the creases in his pants. all of a sudden, jerry, i realized that he had always been there. i just never saw him as a real living live person that wanted to be my friend. >> we'll have more from wally armstrong on how to experience the presence of jesus right after this. >> people are going look, jesus is talking to ben crenshaw. and the whole thing is, see, jesus was there in the flesh, but he didn't have his robe on and his beard and his sanda 

>> welcome back. professional golfer wally armstrong spent nearly 40 years following jesus religiously. but, his was a performance-driven faith. but eight years ago, he began viewing jesus in a whole new light. as an ever-present companion and friend, which he writes about in the book "practicing the presence of jesus." as we continue, wally talked about the differences between experiencing jesus the old way, versus the new way. >> i guess the best analogy is in the last three weeks i have had two cataract surgeries. one of my big pet peeves is i'll be watching television. she will say why don't you turn it on high-def? i can't tell the difference because my eyes are so cloudy.

but i get new lenses and all after sudden everything is so clear. i watch high-def and i can see the hair follicles in people's hair and the grass. it's a whole new way of looking at tv and life. this is what happened to me eight years ago when i met jesus. i saw him alive and i began to look for him and talk to him. life all of a sudden was in high-def. the scriptures became so real it me. i could see them in the scriptures that his whole purpose was to glorify his father who was his best friend and to live a life of faith. and, so that encouraged me. and, um, so that's kind of the way it's -- my life has gone these last eight years. it's been a whole new way of looking at life and trying to follow his lead. kind of committing a day it him and then staying with him all day long and listening and talking and moving through life. and, there's a companionship. it's bigger than a relationship, which is kind of on and off. but this is an all-the-time

thing. so i just try to get up in the morning and start the day out with him by my side. it says in 1 john that our fellowship is with the father and the son, and that he becomes our advocate or perilcetos which is someone who comes along beside you to help you. so, jesus wants to just walk beside us and really to follow his lead. to go into every situation with him and to kind of mentally talk it over. and, let him open the doors. and then you go in together and life becomes an adventure. and, this became really evident it me. i wanted to share this one story about, after i first started this eight years ago, and it was developing and i was pulling up a chair in my office and i was thinking about what jesus would be like and imagining, visualizing him there. what he would be like. and, four months later i'm back at the minister's, following

arnold palmer at the masters. and arnie was king when i was growing up in indiana as a kid. i bumped into my friend who i started a tour ministry. he said he he wanted me to meet his granddaughter are rachel. but they were standing in a crowd of people surrounding ben crenshaw and ben's talking to a hall, handsome guy in masters garb, khaki pants and a masters shirt. people are pointing at this guy. i said jim i don't recognize him. who is it? he said that's jesus. i said -- what? and he said that's the actor that playedese news "the passion of christ" this winter. he's out there promoting the bobby jones movie. but people are looking at his face, and they are seeing it's jesus from the movie. they doesn't know it's jim. but people are going look, jesus is talking to ben crenshaw. and the whole thing is, see, jesus was there in the flesh, but he didn't have his robe on

and his beard and his sandals. he was a golfer like everyone else. and, when, i began to realize that's the same guy that i saw. it was confirmation that wally, this is what people are missing. you know? people are missing this friendship with jesus. they get the, they put jesus up on a pedestal sometimes and they feel like they can't approach him, but he wants to be approachable. and so that was kind of -- the start of my life. >> i think that's an important message for all of us to understand. the apposle paul writes in 1 corinthians 6, for those people who don't really have the spirit of god, they really can't understand it. because it's the spirit of christ that gives us, that puts us in fellowship and gives us an understanding of who he is and he said it's when we have the

mind of christ that we are really in fellowship. intense fellowship with god. and it sounds like what happened is you moved from a relationship with god, but a distant relationship with christ, into the spirit of christ. >> absolutely. >> understanding more of who he was and the freedom that came with that, of having the mind of christ. >> absolutely. the verse i really like farce living my life is in hebrews 12:1 where he talks about we run the race of our life with endurance and we are to cast aside the sin and the world stuff that -- and it says to fix our eyes on jesus. well if you can't fix your eyes on somebody that isn't there -- >> somebody you don't know or you can't trust somebody you don't know. >> it's a matter of trust. >> or have a relationship with someone. >> yeah. >> that you don't know or don't

trust enough to be able to have that confidence. wally, it's good to have you. >> thank you, jerry. >> all right. >> always enjoy talking to you. this is great. again, wally's book is entitled "practicing the presence of jesus" and you can get it at christian bookstores or amazon or through wally's website, oldprobooks.com. when we return, we'll have some final thoughts on resting in jesus. we will be right back. >> it's been worn out and tired, all good stuff. most of it. but you are just kind of worn out and you just need to connect with the savior? well, is there a good thing to know that jesus is not only our lord and savior, our magnificent, glorious christ, but he's also the shepherd of the deeanp

>> welcome back. a lot of us have a strong desire to please god. if we aren't careful, that can turn into a never-ending treadmill of activity that just tires us out and leaves us with little emotional or spiritual resources to give. well today, pastor jeff moore, first presbyterian church in aurora, illinois, has final thoughts on resting in jesus. >> are you busy? are you rushing around? are you in a hurry? you know, the more people that i talk to these days, seems like we are just in a rush. we are just frantic. going from one thing to the next. rushing to get to work. rushing to get out the door to school. rushing to get to church, even. are you in a rush today? well, if you are, you are a lot like the disciples of jesus. in mark 6:30, the apposles

returned and jesus told them all that they -- and they had told jesus all that they had done and tried and he said to them, come away by yourselves to a desolate place and rest for a while. see, the disciples, they had just been sent out on a ministry tour and it was a great success. they had all power and authority given to them. they were healing the sick. they were casting out evil spirits. they were preaching a gospel of repentance and seeing people come to faith. and, they had just returned to jesus and they were so excited about what was going on and at the same time, they were tired. they had just strictly worn out. have you ever been there? worn out and tired? it's all good stuff. or at least most of it. but you are just kind of worn out. and you just need to connect with the savior. well, isn't it a good thing to know that jesus is not only our lord and savior, our magnificent, glorious christ, but he's also the shepherd of

the sheep. and he knows what we need. he knows when we are tired. he knows when we are just worn out. when we have been frantically running. and jesus says to us, come on. get in the boat, come away with me to a desolate place and let's rest. for a while. you know, the disciples they would come back and they were so excited and yet, weary. but the place where they were, the gospel says that many were coming and going and they had no leisure even to eat people wanted bits and pieces all the time. they wanted disciples to minister to them. so the disciples, yeah, excited, yes, faithful. yes, working for the lord. and yet, hungry. didn't have time even to eat. does that sound familiar? jesus says come on.

get in the boat. what would it have felt like to be a disciple and you are kicked back in the boat and it goes away from the shore and the crowd and the noise, recedes in the become ground and all you can hear is the voice of your master and your friend. listen. today, if you are busy, i if yor margin is really thin, frantic and running around all over the place, listen. you need to get in the boat. go away with jesus. to a desolate place that. might be a sanctuary, that might be your closet. that might be a rom where nobody else is. but get away to a desolat, place. a quiet place where it's only you and the lord jesus. you know, jesus says come away with me to a desolate place by yourselves and rest. we need that rest. but he said -- rest a while. you know, we've got heaven, all

eternity where we will will be able to rest. but only for now, if you are tired, be with jesus. rest with jesus. but that rest is only for a little while. because, there's always going to be more to do. isn't there? jesus, as they go closer to the shore, they are on the boat for a while and there's the crowd. the 5,000 men. probably 20,000 people. and they are hungry, too. there's always more to do. friend, today, take a rest. take some time. with your lord jesus. >> you know, i really can identify with what wally armstrong was saying, because i tend to be task oriented and somehow i place a lot of self value in how busy and how much i'm doing. and sometimes i equate that with my christianity. and i think a lot of people do that. but that's a mistake. and i think wally pointed it out

incredibly well. that our relationship with jesus christ does not depend on our performance. it doesn't depend on us being perfect. and i have known people who were perfectionists. and, they had set a standard for their lives and if they didn't get close to that standard, if they didn't hit that standard, then it was unacceptable to them. but i want you to know something. it's not unacceptable for god. our relationship with jesus christ depends on what he has done for us, not all the things that we can do. and we don't have to exhaust our self for endless activity trying to perform and please god. he is pleased by our simple obedience. i said god has not called us even to success. he has called us to relationship

and god does through us all of the things that he wants to do. and i have to learn almost every day, i have to learn it's not about me, it's not all that i do. it's what god does through me. through the holy spirit. and that can bring a rest that is an absolute freedom in christ. thanks for joining us. see you next time. usic]