♪ ♪ joining me tonight a pastor irwin. and as author of numerous books including when a nation forgets god. seven lessons we must learn from nazi, generally anne. welcome to program the great to be with you eric. what an unusual topic i must say. you, your premise, the subtitle is seven lessons we must learn from nazi germany. i gather in book you're saying in our major centers of learning, we are teaching 7

principles i guess or lessons that they were teaching in nazi germany. >> well actually it is even more than. not just in our centers of learn thing i need to begin by saying that it would be disingenuous for with politicians here in united states to call one another nazis. i don't write this book to contribute to the overheat rhetoric that is taking place. there were certain cultural streams that fed into germany that enable the holocaust that enabled hitler to take over and nation of germany did forget god. so this isn't just something that is being taught. something that is happening. for example, let's take lesson number 1. when god is separated from government, judgment is going to follow. because the bible says, that the lord says blessed nation whose god is lord. and when a america no longer acknowledges god, and god is separated, just think about this for a moment, god is separated from government, he's separated

from law. he's separated from science. he separated from all of these branchs of learning. we say to god, you stay on your side of the divide between separation of church and state. and don't you dare put a toe over so to speak or else you're going to be sued. >> now here's an interesting thing. hitler was confronted with a germany that was largely nom nal christian. >> so what he had to do is to empty the so-called public sphere of all christian values so he could proceed with his agenda. he did it in a number of ways. one he even took symbols of christianity and changed them. >> now for example, christmas was winter solstice or yuletide. he wasn'ted to empty real meaning easter was really spring break. now, what he was trying to do is to also limit the church. one story eric, but it is so instructive i need to tell it.

martin be and opposed hitler. and began what was known confessing church. but on the one occasion, he met hitler. hitler asked pastors come he had bee rated them and then he said this, hitler speaking, you stay and take care of the church, i will take care of german people. >> when they shook hands with hitler you said thad you'll take care of the german people we are to take care only of the church. but god has given a responsibility also for the german people which cannot be taken from us. and isn't that interesting. the question is still being asked today what the role of the church. should we be interested only in our sphere? and another story i tell, very interesting, about the believe the church should just take care of itself. i have a story that was sent to me about how one small church

had a rail road truck running past it they knew when train was coming full of jews on way to concentration camp during that time they would only sing hymns more loudly they didn't know what too do. question is, what is the roll of the church in wider culture? bottom line, one lesson is, as we continue to confine god to a smaller and smaller area, once a christmas kresh is seen as threat to the constitution, you know how far we have gone down the road of separating god from government. now i'm going to mention another lesson, and that is that it is always the economy. we have to the economy is so powerful. that's why we're talking about it all the time. >> here you have germany after world war i, which ends in 1918 needing to reparation. and they were saddled wh

they decided we're going to print money to pay our debts and they began to print. and of course, if you begin to print money in ordered to stimulate the economy or in order to create jobs, once that money has run its course, the only thing you can to do is print more. that's what german government did until they had this rampant inflation. you know all the stories of student ordered cup of coffee in university. he paiden thousand marks and then he wants a second cup of reading a newspaper now 14 thousand marks you know what i mean. and read both stories and hitler could have never arisen in germany if it were not for bad economy. because eric when people are desperate, when there are soup lines and then you have chaos on the streets, and when you have that kind of a situation, people are willing to give up any freedom and the german people

did. they gave up freedom of assembly of freedom of expression and so forth. they did all of that in exchange for the right to live. and so, as their freedoms were being taken away they were content as long as hitler had a strong economy. and of course, we have to remember, that naziism is not national, socialism. so he began, universal healthcare and so forth. of course the older people were put to death, those that were crippled and so forth. but nonetheless, what happened is you have this time of the economy. we have to be very, very careful because when our nation's economy is in trouble, people are desperate. and people will believe anyone who gives promises that he can stop the madness. so you've mentioned these several scenarios that existed with hitler. and with germany.

what do you see as you look at the landscanoday that gives you pause and concern that that there are parallels? you know our own, in our own government, and in our own educational system, look around. and you will find that god is continually unwelcome. and when i was in china in 1985, we're talking to a tour guide. and she said and we're asking about freedom of religion in china and she said of course we have freedom of religion in china. >> she said people can be as religious as they want to be within their own minds. >> so, you see, as long as you ur religious within your own mind, now today, in america, we say that we still have freedom within our synagogue and churches. but the fact is, that as government continues to close in on us, we can understand that we're headed down a very dangerous track. looking back over say the last 50 to 75 years, what kinds of

freedoms have we given up or seen taken away sort of innocuously for the greater good and almost without realizing. for example we can see this in our schools. when you have instances where chs cannot be designated a religious holiday, because after all, our schools have to be totally secular rised. you see for when i use the illustration in my book parents are told that their six-year-old is going to be taught homosexuality and they can't even withdraw the child from school. and what you find is therefore, that the schools are becoming state sponsored schools. and this becomes so critical. in fact lesson number 5 in my book eric is in 1938, hitler shut down all home schooling, also, all faith based schools. and he did it of course through zoning ordinances.

you know, that's the way you can do it. you can give zoning ordinances, you can have various prerequisite and based on that, eventually, these schools have to shut down. >> so if you look at our schools, especially, freedoms are being taken away. and of course, not only in that area, but our science teachers for example if they believe in creation we all know what happens to them. we've seen the evidence of that. in every area, the freedoms that we once were thought were secure are becoming compromised. >> you know, in nazi germany article 24 of the party platform demanded liberty for all religious denominations in the state. so far as they are not a danger to the moral feelings of the german race. >> pretty income with us on the surface. that really quite sinister. best example we can give is again going back to lee mohler.

lee mohler was tried for what we call hate speech. in those days it was called abuse of pulpit. what he was tried for from his pulpit in germany he was crate call of intrusion naziism and church and way in which naziism tried to limit the sphere the churches. he is accused of abusing the pulpit. and, as a result of that he was taken and of course he was found guilty. that was forgone conclusion. and then put in the a concentration camp and he actually was able to live beyond that, and died in 1984. but the point is that, what you had was a statement there that said that church needs to stay in its sphere. it was germanys understanding of the two spheres of church and state. and just like hitler tried to keep the church confine in very same way aclu wants us to be confined in our corner.

one of the things i see want to say on this show we become not become discouraged we not become angry. that we not think to ourselves ling in difficult time.we're you look history christian church, and what you discover is that christian church has always been under persecution. there have always been those that stood against christians. let's talk a little bit about the role of law in the formation of nazi germany and how allowed enabled some of the things to occur that did. do we have a parallel there here? we have very interesting parallel. you see, hitler made the laws in germany for a text that i quote that say he is the chief law giver. so what he did is eerie defined the person hood so that jews weren't considered as persons. they were in german the german word, that is to say, they were

sub human. >> which meant thess troops could kim them, et cetera, et cetera without incrimination without being charged with a crime. >> this became so apparent when the nurn beggar trials were held. the question was by what law should we judge hitler's henchmen. others are argued that we didn't break any laws. we were simply following the laws of our country and laws of our flag. and by the way it was an american by name of robert jackson who stood up and said there is law above the law. there transcendent law. >> and you and i know that there wasn't law like that unless god exists. but that's a separate story. >> but the point is that whoever controls the laws controls the country. >> i quote someone in my book as saying show me your laws and i will show you your god. see, if i make up my own laws i'm my own god.

if the supreme court makes up its own laws and there is no authority above the supreme court, it becomes its own god. >> and of course, in america today we have jetson the ten commandments taken supreme law giver and removed them. i remember being in one the great states in united states and being in the supreme court of the capital of this state. >> and the ten commandments were washed out of all of the literature that they had. they had this big board which they couldn't get rid of. the plaque. but it was all stroked out. because you know you can't allow god into law or the ten commandments. now, you can understand why there is such a big issue when it comes to it the matter of our supreme court justices. >> and because, whoever controls the laws to a good extent controls the country. now here's what breaks my

our founding fathers would have never been able to pass the bar to get into the supreme court today. very fact that they believe the bible would have meant that they were disqualified. some of them home schooled their children with the disqualification. you go down the list. they were religious, therefore can we trust them because after all they might allow their religion to interfere with their interpretation. here's the bottom line, if the supreme court can find abortion in the constitution when in point of fact it definitely is not there, you know, it is based on the theory of privacy. we can kill preborn infants because we have to realize it is a matter of privacy. they will be able to find anything in the constitution. in years to come if we keep going the direction we're going, we can assume that same sex marriage will be found to be

constitutional. home schooling could very easily be found to be unconstitutional. because after all, the state wants to control and force feed our children. so on and on it can go role of law is absolutely critical. while we're talking about the church, i want to see if there you see a parallel here, much has been written and said and questions and theories about the status of the church in germany that enabled if you will the nazis to come to power and atrocities to occur. what did you see that the church was doing or not doing compared to today? eric, excellent question. but first of all i'm going to put things in balance. >> in my book i have an excellent quote from einstein. einstein said this, if people listen to this it will be worth their while to have listened to the whole show. i stein said when nazi germany came i looked to the universities

emphasis on freedom. he said they were silent. he said i looked to newspapers with their flaming editorials on freedom. they too he says became dumb. only the church stood across hitler's path. he said that which i formally disdained now i praise unreservedly what we need to understand is this, church didn't do all that it should do, but it was the only opposition that hitler had. now, if indeed all the pastors would have been mohler and bon how fares nazi germany could not have arisen. you would not have had what happened. >> but the point is that, the confessing church especially even though they eventually went out separate story, they stood across hitler's path. now what was it that church was doing wrongly? >> the church in germany bought into hitler for a couple of reasons. because of his promises of

security against communism. d because of his economic reform. always keep in mind thad if hitler had died before world war opened he was gone down in history as adolph the great. because, that is what i was not aware of before the tremendous acshments that he had had >>ut werbuilt. he had full employment. it was an economic miracle. and you know pastors in germany, they were so nationalalistic. they believe that whatever was good for germany was good for the church. therefore, if the economy was growing that meant christianity was strong. you and i know there is no direct equation between those two. do you see anything like that in the country today? >> well i certainly see a problem with our economic situation. and exactly what that will

result in now, think of it this way, the minute a government begins to step in to try to help the economic situation, to print money and so forth as i mentioned earlier, what happens is, the freedoms of people are slowly eroded. because you begin to depend upon the government forour care, for wage and price controls for all kinds of benefits and you become more government dependent. and that always creates a problem. >> one quick illustration, after the berlin wall fell, there was a cartoon that appeared in a russian newspaper. two different trails, one said freedom and the other said bread and sausage. the trail that said bread and sausage was well traveled. the freedom trail had very few takers. propaganda was widely used, very effectively used today. how is propaganda and language

being used? i'm thinking perhaps as it relates to the gay movement? >> oh, that is so critical. because that's one the great lessons we can learn is propaganda has power. hitler said that if you go into a stadium and there are 200 thousand people all shouting the same thing, you are either going to change your mind, so you agree with them or at least, you're going to keep your mouth shut. because, you are going to recognize that you must be wrong, 200 thousand people have to be right. now, what we believed was this regarding propaganda. slogans absolutely critical. when you starved children he called it putting them on low calorie diet. when you talked about killing of jews he never talked about killing of jews they talked cleansing of the land from ve vermin. they talked unspeakable elves

behind this slogans. >> what hitler also believed is that you can create a cultural stream that's my language not his, that the idea whether so much euphoria and so much pressure that is put upon a culture where everybody begins to dance the same drum. and, when you have that you ineffect create what i call a fact free zone. by that i mean, reality in facts simply do not matter. because what you are interested in doing is getting that point across and there is so much pressure. now, consider the gay rights movement. it is 1980. they are being accused of aids, aids is becoming known as gay disease. so they think through to themselves, what do we have to do in order to change our image. and i have in the book a quote from one of their leaders who says they used mine being

hitler's famous book which means my struggle. because i mean mentioned that heaven can made to look like hell and hell like heaven with right use of propaganda. so what they began is this propaganda campaign and they talked only about the benefits, they stifled all opposition. no television program today is going to go against the gay agenda that would be a tremendous, tremendous problem if they did. and also, what they did is something that hitler believed in audi monday nice the opposition. so if somebody disagrees with you you ridicule them. hitler said ridicule has power. ridicule them and make fun of them then you try to get them to react to you. and they will look silly in their reaction. and then what you do is you totally marginal lies them. >> what you find today isame

ca >> if you'reed to same sex marriage homophobic you're narrow minded. you are and throw in almost any blank and other words we wouldn't mention in this program. you see, the advantage is tremendous by calling people names. because then you don't have to deal with issue do you? he wants to be associated with home phobe be aing or some other name that you want to give to somebody and so what you do is you true toy marginal lies them in that way. the book gives us so much to think about, when a nation forgets god, seven lesson we must learn from nazi germany. do you have any final thoughts for us? first of all word of those of you who accepted jesus christ as your savior. i hope that when you hear that

things we have been talking about, that you are not filled with fear, that you recognize that god walks with us through the difficult times and what an exciting time to be alive to believe god's promises to trust thoseomises, and to know that we follow in the train of other behaviors. we've always had conflict with governments and we've always been in difficulty of one kind or another. and so, very important for us to take heart. but there is a question i want to the ask you if you know christ the savior, that are you being a good witness where every god has planted you. i trust that you are. because at the end of the day, what america needs to do icy believers who love god and live out their faith in the various walks of life. together we can make a difference for the cause of the kingdom. but finally,peako

those of who may be listening who have never trusted jesus christ as your savior. this is best news you will ever hear, it is news for sinners, just like you and like me. the bible is very clear that when jesus christ died on the cross his death was a sacrifice. and as a result of that sacrifice, we can believe on jesus christ and we can be saved. just imagine the sin that is on your conscious. imagine the sense of emptiness you might be experiencing. and then realize that today you can be reconciled to god through jesus christ. because of what god did on our behalf. and i conclude today by helping you understand this, if you believe that when jesus died on the cross, he did all of that ever will be necessary for you to stand in god's presence, if

you accept what he did for yourself, and believe it and trust it, not only will you be saved, but you will know that you are saved. and the reason that we know it is because of the assurance that god in our hearts that we belong to god. let me give you this illustration, i've had the experiences i'm sure you have of being at an airport and most of the time i've had a ticket. but sometimes i've flown stand by, what difference it makes. when you fly stand by you're walking back and forth, you're nervous, because you don't know whether or not your name will be called. and then, when you have a ticket, you have a sense of assurance, a belief down deep that you know there is room for you on the plane.

bottom line when atrust christ your savior you don't fly stand by you actually have ticket. time is short. eternity is long, want you to believe in jesus christ today. and i want to conclude with a words of one of my heros who stood against nazi germany. always remember is not before us but it is before the cross that the world trembles. thanks again for joining us tonight. god bless you. and you have a good evening from my heart to yours. blessings. "realtime closed captioning provided by u.s. captioning company."

wow. college already. ( chuckles ) yeah. - we gotta go. - yeah. - ( engine starts ) - ( door shuts ) ♪ for all those times you stood by me... ♪ and remember the-- seatbelt. drive safe. call when i get there. well, i-- i love you. ♪ for every dream you made come true ♪ ♪ for all the love i found in you... ♪ i love you too, daddy. ♪ you're the one who saw me through... ♪ - and thanks... - ♪ through it all... for everything.

♪ you were my strength when i was weak ♪ ♪ you were my voice when i couldn't speak... ♪ - ( woman speaks ) - ♪ because you loved me. a message from the foundation for a better life.

>> jeremiah: hello, i'm david jeremiah. as a teacher of the scripture for more than 40 years, i have found that the bible speaks to every situation we face in life, and throughout my ministry, i have discovered a profound truth: that when the word of god intersects with our lives, there will be a turning point. discover how the power of god's word can transform your life when you n me on turning point. >> larson: watch turning point with dr. david jeremiah right here on this network. today on aspiring women, the faith of a child inspires an entire community. >> because that's what our wish is. i want to grant the wishes of all these other kids.