week for your movie issuance. >> simultaneous special counsel investigations for the presumed 2024 presidential front runners. >> i take classified documents classified materials seriously. it's not like they're sitting out in the street. >> the white house tries to quiet concerns about the handling of classified documents. after blasting former president trump in the wake of the mar-a-lago search. house republicans officially invite the president to dee investigations and press for spending cuts. >> the federal bureaucrat wants to spend it. they will come before us.

>> will any gop proposals make it through democratic-led senate. tony gonzalez and california democratic congressman john ger mandy will join us live now that the republicans are in charge. from trump white house press secretary to the arkansas governor's mansion. >> so help me god. >> sarah huckabee sanders serving as the nation's youngest governor. releasing executive orders. and facing questions about whether she will endorse her former boss in 2024. we sit down with governor sanders in her first sunday show interview since taking office. then the biden administration says falling inflation is a win for the president's policies. >> six month in a row, inflation has come down. >> americans still face shortages of baby formula over-the-counter and prescription drugs and more.

we'll ask our sunday panel what's in store in 2023. plus, two scholars with world view on their unlikely friendship on how we can find common ground. all now on "fox news sunday." hello from fox news in washington on this weekend. we remember the legacy of dr. martin luther king jr. the current and former president who may face off again in 2024 are both facing investigations for their handling of classified documents. now, the white house says president biden's lawyers found more of them. at his home in wilmington, delaware. the president criticized former president trump with classified materials were found at mar-a-lago. >> when you saw the photograph of the top secret documents laid out in the floor at mar-a-lago,

what did you think to yourself? >> how that could possibly happen. how anyone can be that irresponsible. just totally irresponsible. >> the investigations come as republicans take power in the house this month. also this month, governors across the country are taking the oath of office. that includes sarah huckabee sanders sworn as arkansas's governor. >> as long as i'm your governor, the meddling hand of big government creeping down from washington d.c. will be stop cold at the mississippi river. >> sanders announced a sear of executive orders banning crt in public schools and use of the word of latinx. we're tracking the battle brewing over spending cuts. we'll speak with republican congressman tony gonzalez from

texas. i want to start by saying, we've all been watching the devastating images of record snowfall, rain, landslides, devastation to property and life. last checked 19 people dead there in california. i think i can speak for lot of folks saying we are praying for you out there in california as you weather this and more storms coming. >> thank you for your concern. i'm probably about a mile and a half from one of the flooded areas here in the central valley just south of the sacramento. it's tough. it's very tough. california is used to the extremes. >> well, let's talk about the extremes here in washington. plenty to debate here and lot of big headlines. let's start with the discovery of documents, classified documents in president biden's possession at different homes and office locations and the revelation yesterday from special counsel to the president of yet more documents. in praising the d.o.j.'s appointment of a special counsel, gop senator lindsey

graham says we must remember former secretary of state clinton's case. it involved hard drives being beaten with a hammer. use of bleach and disappearance of 30,000 e-mails under subpoena. nothing happened in her case. speaker kevin mccarthy makes this observation. >> what's so surprising to me, this came out before the election. every time we find something that comes out before the election, dealing with the biden family is pushed under the rug. >> congress mank, d -- congressman, do you get where you get where the justice department doesn't treat everyone equally? >> doing what they are doing now. we have a special counsel in place. the documents and the whole issue is before the special counsel the investigations will go forward with regard to these classified documents that were found. i don't need to imagine, i know exactly what president biden

said when he was informed that these documents were found in his office in his office in washington. that was oath, followed by a four letter expletive. it's an embarrassment. we'll find out from the special counsel as he goes about his business. >> those investigations will continue. meanwhile, there's a lot to teal with here in washington. we got word from the treasury secretary. we'll hit the debt ceiling within matter of days. the white house says no negotiations over raising the debt ceiling. that will not work because the house rules passed about the gop have a number of things in there. when it comes to discussing the debt ceiling, like spending cut. the way that most of us have to run our own budgets in our households. where do you think that the government can tighten its belt? this dealt ceiling was renegotiated back in december 2021. >> first of all, using the debt

limit as a leverage to gain political advantage is really a very bad thing to do. we've seen this. this is not a if you play. we've seen this play out multiple times in the past. the result again. this is not new spending when you talk talking about yesterdas appropriations and yesterday's spending. we're talking about medicare, medicaid, we're talking about socisocial security. it's paying our bills. new spending, that's a separate issue. republicans should learn from their own history. using the debt limit as a lever to gain some sort of political advantage really doesn't work well for them and terrible for the american economy. >> what they will say, if a new policy is to cut federal

spending. we're taking in more revenue than before. why not have a conversation about where you can handle cuts? >> we do. we do every year. we do an appropriations bill every year on the military side. we have the defense authorization act that i've worked on for the last 13 years. that's bipartisan. we cut some things in the military. we add things here and there. similarly, this is an ongoing discussion in the normal course of congress. it should be there. once you get into the debt limit, it's different. it is about being able to pay off the loans that we have actually made in the past for appropriations since spending in the past. going forward, sure, let's sit down. we'll talk about this program or that program, more here, less there. that's the ongoing work of congress. once again, the use of the debt limit has not worked to the benefit of those that have used it. i will point out that the

republicans did not use the debt limit three times during the previous administration. they just shrugged their shoulders and the debt limit was increased without any to do. now they're in power here, like earlier, they want to use it. it harms the economy. it harms the nation. it harms our status around the world. >> the speaker got at new reality in dealing with the deal that he made in order to get the vote to be speaker. you done work on the hill with transportation and the f.a.a. we saw hundreds of thousand of people stranded this week. we're told this not unexpected about. some of of this could have been predicted. what can you do to fix it on capitol hill for the american people? >> we have to fund the f.a.a. among the things that are going to be cut from what i understand, the republicans talk about is funding for the f.a.a. we just went through this great meltdown of this notam system, which is part of the f.a.a.'s

notification to pilots. what we need to do is properly fund the f.a.a. for the last ten decades, we've been trying to put in place a new air traffic control system. every year, there's insufficient funding, stretched out for ten years. another example where we could spend money wisely. we need to hold the f.a.a. accountable with oversight. >> i think they are going to be called in front of you guys to answer some questions. thank you very much for being with us this morning. joining us now is texas republican congressman tony gonzalez. welcome back to "fox news sunday." let's go back to this discovery of documents. lot of people saying these are two different cases. the "washington post" says the trump and biden classified documents are not the same. the scale of information withheld from the government isn't as large or more importantly or biden his team

hiding the documents from the justice department. should the two special counsels view them differently? >> they should view them similarly. i think biden has highlighted his incompetence for the world to see. i spent 20 years as a cryptologist working with national security agency. what you see here is failure. the politics in it is lucrative. i'm more focused on the practicality. i want to know who knew what and when. were sources and methods compromised. if they were compromised, is the intelligence community, what are they doing to mitigate those. i'm concerned about the vice president. vice president harris hasn't necessarily shown her level of competence as border czar. anyone checked if she has classified materials. >> there's been no allegations of that. i'm sure everybody on their staff is thinking that through. knowing these cases have

captured national headlines. former president and current president, everybody probably doing a sweep what they got. let's talk about wrapping up the first week. you heard the criticisms from congressman ger mandy. he says republicans have given a free pass to wealthy tax cheats to undermine and threaten law enforcement. undercut women's healthcare and put forward a draconian budget plan that will lead to cuts in medicare, social security and defunding the police. he says you guys aren't serious. the house will send things over to die in the senate. the gop can't govern. >> i was very proud to see speaker mccarthy on the very first issue do away with 87,000 new i.r.s. agents. not one of my constituents has ever told me, tony can you get the i.r.s. to audit me. that shows some highlight. we got this debt ceiling coming up. i'm hearing june will be the

pinnacle of that. we have time. we got to start early. i'm honestly worried about the direction in which next week is looking at. one thing in particular is border security and immigration. oftentimes this is a topic that gets blended. particularly, concerned with this border safety and security act. essentially, what it does, it bans asylum, all asylum to include legitimate asylum. there was three little girls that the cartel abandoned outside of eagle pass. if this bill becomes law, what do you do with those little girls? do you throw them over the other side of the fence? i don't think that's american way. america is built on freedom and opportunities, immigration system needs to be reformed. abolish is one step too far. >> just quickly. a note back on the i.r.s. lot of people say 87,000 agents. it's 87,000 employees. not all of them are agents.

the concern obvious, there's more audits. those making under $25,000 a year are more likely to be audited than millionaires. back to the border. you had a meeting with d.h.s. secretary mayorkas this week. he's got to be aware of the articles of impeachment. what's your conversation about his assessment of the border is. do they have a real understanding or take any responsibility what's going on? >> i did have a meeting earlier this week with secretary mayorkas. look, the house of representatives is no doubt going to start impeachment articles. where that takes us, only the truth will lead us there. representative jim jordan is going to be leading those efforts. i'm confident that he will bring out the truth in that matter. as a member of congress, my role is oversight of one of my roles is oversight of the executive branch. sitting down with secretary

mayorkas. i pushed to get border patrol agents out of the processing centers and out in the field. one thing i asked for was reopen border patrol station, 60 miles from the border that's been shut down for six months. he was open to that. another thing we talked about was his f.a.a. outage and one of the things i asked, was this a cyberattack. his response was there was no indications this was a cyberattack. d.h.s. do so much more than other than border. we talked about china and holding china accountable. i thought it was a productive conversation. clearly d.h.s. has to do more. >> will you vote to impeach him? >> i'll see where the hearing take us. if the hearing take us down that line, then hearing take us down that line. i'm waiting to see all the facts.

>> very quickly, i want to ask about the debt ceiling. you voted noen out house gop rules package. white house said this week, no negotiations, no hostage taking. how does that square with the rule package that you guys have now? does the speaker risk motion to vacate? >> the debt ceiling is no doubt going to be a knife fight. that's why we have to start early. i've been of the mindset, no defense cuts without reforms. the key here is reforms. if you just cut defense and expect the national debt to go down, that's not going to happen. only thing you will do is hurt defense. we have to have a broader discussion, reforms are important. we need to start that conversation early. we need to be transparent. wasn't of the things i've been pushing for is for us to have open hearings. when a bill gets issued on the floor, there's opportunities to amend it. there's very important to get bye-in from rank and file

members. >> got to go. would you vote yes to raise the debt ceiling? what would it take? >> we're a long ways to go. defense spending is going to be key. i have to see where defense spending will be at. >> congressman, thank you for your time. up next, you may not be hearing much about it. parents across the nation are still desperately searching for baby formula and prescription and over-the-counter drugs for children and infants. we'll talk about how families are dealing with the shortages in the middle of flu season. sometimes you're so busy taking care of everyone else you don't do enough for yourself, or your mouth. but eventually, it will remind you. when it does, aspen dental is here for you. we offer the custom dental treatments you need, all under one roof, right nearby. so we can bring more life to your smile... and more smile to your life... affordably. new patients without insurance can get a free complete exam and x-rays,

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>> how can anyone be that irresponsible? isn't that what this president says about mishandling classified documents? >> the president spoke to this personally. he believes that classified documents and information should be taken seriously. >> shannon: that was fox news peter doocy asking white house

press secretary karine jeanne-pierre. it's time now for our sunday group. great to have you all with us. it's been a quiet week here in washington. let's start with the documents. an opinion piece in "wall street journal." this is extraordinary. how long will the probes drag on? will one investigation finish over another. will one man be exonerated while the other is indicted. how much information will be leakleakleaked in each probe. legal issues aside. there are the political issues as well. >> this has been sort of an interesting couple of days. you would think that team biden which discovered these documents before the election. months ago, would have gotten

their act together rather than what we've seen. which is a drip, drip of their own making. even though they controlled the circumstances. which is political malpractice certainly. when it comes to the legal side of it and i think the optics on the politics as well, i keep seeing the hillary clinton standard, precedent is the most relevant here of the three people we're talking about. her conduct was most egregious, she was never charged. they told us that the search was concluded. then five more documents showed up in a room somewhere at a house on behalf of president or former president who's advisors saying he takes this seriously. actions and words are differing. >> shannon: our buddy andy mccarthy saying case closed. biden admitting guilt. it appears it biden is not challenging that the documents were classify.

the mexicos -- the locations in which he kept them were not occupied. >> i find this story baffling. i think the sins are close enough to the casual observer, they would say, well, you know what, if one president did it, another president did it. it's equal playing field. in fact, this is the most crazy thing. this is a situation where you have one individual who's forthcoming. one who's hiding. you have one individual who's cooperating, one who's been stonewalling. one instance, which is intentionally taking documents for more than a year refusing to give them up versus someone who says some documents were surprised and accidentally discovered. the quantity of the documents is different. the sin is close enough, the casual observer will say, they're all do it. let's let trump off the hook.

i think the story is trump. for biden, a big loss because i think people will be talking about inflation going down. i think will be talking about the progress the country has been making economically, good job report. people are talking about a sort of cable news trump talking point. >> shannon: apple and oranges? >> one is heavy talk, what this does reveal, we live in two-tiered system if you were a civilian or in the service, what you would find with evidence of this kind, you'd already have been frog marched out. it's not about the difference between the presidents and the former president. it is the difference between those who are elites and those who are not. why do we have laws if we're not going to hold people accountable for the violations of them. that's really telling in this case. >> shannon: i want to make sure

that we get over to capitol hill. we've been talking about the debt ceiling. a big fight that's coming. do we know the exact rules or parameters that these hold outs made with speaker mccarthy? >> we're still figuring it out. one is what are the agreements they made. they are sharing with the conference. others are goals that they say what they want to aspire to. the "washington post" had a story out saying that some republicans including congressman chip roy wants to do debt prioritization. which means you can choose where the money goes. republican experts find that really controversial. democrats say they will use it against them. whether kevin mccarthy push for that is a different thing. we're preparing for messy. that's how the congress kicked off. >> you can see the white house and left saying, guided, this is

on the republicans. they are playing games with the full faith and credit of the united states. they are the one who will crash this economy. >> there's a few months here to play with. >> they had unified reasonable ask in the end. they have leverage here to put a dent in this thing to some extent. the white house have to negotiate. they have to be unified. >> shannon: those are top headlines. i was surprised to hear about something that has not been in the headlines.

this is the shortage of baby formula. we heard about the medications too. i got a message from a friend, she had a mother with baby who went to a drugstore and paid $47 for a can of formula. the shelvers were bare. this is what u.s.a. today said. the anguish is heart breaking as mothers still are searching for baby formula to feed their babies. shelves are bare in some places. stores are still rationing sales. what's going on? >> we clearly have a supply chain management problem. we clearly have shifted in a way when we shut down the economy that we realized, we rely overwhelmingly on unreliable sources, particularly, china. no one in the white house, even though this problem starting to improve, no one in the white house has addressed the real serious problem. what are we doing so that in general, not just baby formula, which is very important, what are we doing so that we shift,

so there are more domestic supply opportunities. what we see in this particular case, is a renegade regulatory environment of this administration. one person talks issues a directive and shuts down an industry without regard. this is not too much unlike the gasoline stoves. one regulatory agency says we want to do it. when the white house realizes its impact, they say they don't. the baby formula problem is -- >> shannon: this is a special weekend. we are remembering dr. martin luther king jr.'s legacy. i want to get some reflections on where we are as a country and learn from his legacy and what we should focus on this weekend. juan, i will start with you. >> we're going through a period in terms of race in american society where we have lots of arguments over identity

politics, politically correct speech. at the same time, you have to realize, we're in the midst of huge demographic shifts that are changing the racial composition. we have to something. i think america is actually doing much better than you would have anticipated. lot of our political arguments have a racial sub text to them. we have to worry about white nationalism and the like emerging. but at the same time, i think we should celebrate for a moment. if you can be skeptical, say, isn't it amazing, given the amount of change taking place, we are still managing to maintain the idea that we have so much in common as americans. >> well, i think martin luther king would be extremely excited about what america has accomplished in the name of the vision of equality of americans. i think he will be very disappointed, how many people n

as an attack to people. a new racisms developing in america that needs to stopped. white people, males, etcetera, deserve just as much welcoming in america south -- south as rosa parks did. >> we are in a pretty divisive time. teachings of martin luther king have continued to persist and be part of our teachings and preachings of how to protest and how to push back on societal change. his voice still resonates today. >> the founders gave us a miraculous gift with the understanding that we had to always strive for a more perfect union. >> shannon: thank you all. up next, this election cycle saw nine new governors ascend to their state's highest office. we sit down with the youngest one.

former trump white house press secretary, sarah huckabee sanders. now the governor of arkansas. next.

>> shannon: just as week sarah huckabee sanders was sworn in as the youngest governor. she's making headlines signing a number of executive orders including on education. sanders two years as the trump white house press secretary. former president trump encouraged her to follow in her father's footstep and run for governors. now people will she will ultimately support trump in 2024. governor sanders join us for an interview. welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> thank you, it's great to be with you. >> shannon: we talked during the commercial that you're growing -- your kids will grow up in the house where you grew up. you hit the ground running this week after inauguration, a number of executive orders. some folks love them, some folks do not. let's talk about your critics reaction to some of the orders. one of them is called executive order to prohibit indoctrine

nation in critical race theory school. she says crt is not being taught in arkansas schools. they said reality check, there's no indication that the college level courses taught in any arkansas public school. if that's true, why the executive order? >> it's incredibly important that we do things to protect the students in our state. we have to make sure that we're not indoctrinating our kids. we should never teach our kids to hate america or that america is a racist and evil country. it should be the exact opposite. we know for a fact that the federal department of education issued crt guidance and policies to every school district in the country. our job is to protect the students. we're going to take steps every single day to make sure we do exactly that. that's the reason i signed the executive order. i'm proud of the fact that we're taking those steps. we're beginning to continue to do it every single day.

>> shannon: can teachers still have the uncomfortable conversations about the sins of our past and about the things this country gotten wrong? >> our teachers absolutely need to teach our history. they shouldn't teach our kids and our students ideas to hate this country and to give it a false premise about who we are and what we are about. that is something that we have to make sure we protect our students from. we need to make sure teachers are focused on teaching, reading, writing, science and math. these are are the areas we have to improve here in arkansas. that's why one of the biggest things i have laid out over the course of two years is a huge education reform package, making sure that we're focused on things like literacy, parental empowerment, accountability, career readiness and making sure that we're protecting our students. we'll do the largest most aggressive conservative education reform package here in

the next legislative session in arkansas. >> shannon: a number of democrats say they want to work on education. they're not for the idea of vouchers or public money following kids to private schools. they also point to you want to phase out the state income tax. they say teachers in arkansas are among the worst paid in the nation. >> we are absolutely capable. we're currently spending 54% of our state budget on education. we're not getting the results that our student and our parents deserve. we must do better with the money that we're investing with that, i absolutely think we can and we should raise teacher pay and put incentives where they need to be. we need to reward our hard working teachers. that's part of the education package that we'll roll out here in the next couple of weeks. we have to make sure that those teachers are delivering for our

students and that parents are empowered to make the best decisions possible for how and where their kid can we got to take the power out of the hands of the bure bureaucra. put it back in the hands of the parents. we have to empower parents to make decisions, make those choice. no child should ever trapped in a lifetime of poverty because of their bank account or their zip code. >> shannon: what about this idea that vouchers, they say are going to become unaccountable dollars. they take money out of public schools where other kids are left behind. if the schools are underperforming, it creates untenable situation for those kids who can't afford to go elsewhere. >> you have to have accountability in the process. that's something that we will make sure that we have throughout education,

encouraging that accountability component. competition breeds success. if a child is stuck in a school that is failing, that is unfair to the student. it's not about what is best for the school. it has to be about what is best for the student. that is going to be our focus, making sure that every child in the state of arkansas has access to a quality education so they can be put on a pathway to prosperity. if we're not looking at it that way, we're looking at education all wrong. >> shannon: another executive order that's gotten lot attention is one that says the word latinx eliminated from official government use. an opinion piece says this. what sanders characterized as respect is an attempt to shut down a debate among latin americans how to identify themselves. >> we want to protect our citizens by not using culturally

insensitive language. we saw multiple instances this term being used with this term. we want to make sure this we are focused on empowering our citizens. only 3% of hispanics actually use that term. many find it offensive. our goal is to get that out of state government and practice. >> shannon: let's look ahead to 2024. your bio describe you as a trusted confidant of president trump. have you talked to him about his 2024 run? will you endorse him in that? >> my focus has been on 2022 winning the election in november, preparing through transition and getting ready to take office as i did this past week. i love the president. i have a great relationship with him. i know our country will be better off if he was in office right now instead of joe biden. right now, my focus is on 2024. it's focusing here in arkansas in doing what we can to empower the people of this state and make sure that i'm delivering on the promises that i laid out

over the course of the last two years. >> shannon: what kind of timeline will you have? will you wait for the nominee? >> again, my focus isn't on 2024. it's on what we can deliver this in this legislative session. i will not set a timeline. i'm focused on what we can do to impact change and deliver on the promises we made during the campaign season here in arkansas. >> shannon: so, there's speculation about your future a piece in your new york intelligence written before the former president. is sarah huckabee sanders auditioning for vice president. it's too early for sanders to run for the top spot. she's shown her loyalty to former president repeatedly. you have just gotten sworn in. do you feel the pressure of future speculation? >> i feel the pressure of delivering this legislative

session. that's the only thing that our team and that i'm focused on is delivering on what we laid out to do. i look forward to serving as governor of arkansas for a full eight years. if the people of arkansas will give me that opportunity, i'm incredibly excited about what i think we have in front of us. that's the only thing i'm spending my time focused on now. >> shannon: strange to be back there in the mansion as the governor in a different room assignment? >> certainly, little bit different. it will be interesting this will be the first time since chelsea clinton lived here, we'll have elementary aged kids in the governor's mansion. very excited about the opportunity that is in front of us. i know our kids are going to have much fun growing up here. >> shannon: governor sanders, thank you for your time today. up next, sit down with two of the biggest names in academia on

the campus culture war and how they managed to have tough conversations and still stay friends. even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. go to getrefunds.com to get started. powered by innovation refunds.

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we just don't listen to each other anymore. nowhere are those divisions more acute in politics. we want to highlight an example. two professors who worked to stay close friends despite their significant policy differences. i sat down with dr. cornell west and dr. robert george at the american enterprise institute. thank you for making time for us. you guys are such an interesting friendship. there's a lot substantively that you disagree about. but you're great friends. >> it has everything to do with love and the trust that we have. we were actually more than friends. he's my dear brother. he's like a member of the family. sometimes members of the family can be wrong about things. you still love him. i'm wrong about some things. most importantly, we're tied to a deep commitment to a quest for truth and beauty and goodness and the whole thing. i learn much from him. he learn things from me. i think the world needs to know

you're looking at two brothers who have a deep love of each other. even as a disagreement in certain policy issues. >> shannon: have we lost that? the ability to do that with each other? >> it's a failure of trust. ultimately, a failure of friendship. in the old language, that worries me deeply. i know it worries cornell. because, to run a democratic republic, you need a minimum of civic friendship. people will disagree about things. that's natural. how are they going to treat each other when they disagree. are they going to treat each other as adversary and enemies or they will treat themselves and each other as fellow citizens who just disagree about this. they will work it out, using the mechanisms of constitutional democracy, deliberative democracy? one side would lose and other

will win for now. we have the opportunity to come back to our fellow citizens and say, you know what, few years ago, when we faced this issue. we went down the wrong road. you can try again. it's important to understand those with whom you disagree. >> shannon: you all are both professors. do you think the next generation get this with the concept being able to disagree and have honest conversations? >> i think it's very difficult now days because people are actually rewarded for being echoes rather than finding their voices. you have to be sincere about who you are and what you do. you're not just posturing. we live in a culture now where people pose and posture middle and bottom and never know who they are by the time it takes place. >> shannon: to your classrooms, what do you see about. next generation about their ability

to engage with tough topics? >> one good thing about young people, they can pick out a fraud. they know if you're faking it. they need to learn that not everybody is a faker. they need to give up the cynicism. they need to be willing to acknowledge that someone is an honest, truth seeker and a courageous truth speaker. even if they disagree with them. they need to recognize it. here's a problem i find with the younger generation. they haven't been taught the virtues of intellectual humility. it's a failure in our generation for failing to pass that along. failing to model that. students learn a lot more from what do you and say. we teach by precept that's important. it's more important to teach by example. they have failed to have modeled for them the kind of openness to

other people as truth seekers. they are going to need if we are to overcome this terrible polarization. >> shannon: i want to read little bit from an opinion piece that jeffrey tucker wrote. he says, you would suppose that a tenured professor at an ivy league university will be positioned to tell the truth. ma.now these finally arrived, hs free, right? , wrong. the fall from the top of the profession is straight to the bottom. he writes about this fear that even tenured professors have now being canceled if they say the wrong thing. >> there's no question there's a climate of fear and intimidation has ascended on our institutions, our business institutions, our cultural institutions. this reinforces the natural human tendency that cornell just mentioned of people to be group thinkers. we will not get anywhere towards

reforming these institutions, overcoming this problem. unless there are some people who are willing to exercise the virtue of courage and model that courage for the people, especially for young people. good news is courage is contagious. when people are seeing being cowardly, this sends a signal. that's contagious too. what upsets people, i will say it now, nobody has a permission slip not to be courageous. i do understand the fear. it's not to say that the fear is unwarranted. the fear is totally warranted. it's not to say there will be no casualties. that no one will lose a job an academic appointment, career opportunity and educational opportunity any great struggle and cause, including the struggle for academic freedom and integrity. there will be victims. this much i know.

we'll have nothing but victims unless somebody is willing to step up and exemplifying if i -- exemplify courage here. those who aspire to careers in the academy and truth seeking, begin now. not later. don't wait until you get promoted to full professor, don't wait until you become department chairman or dean of the college. it will be too late. you'll be retired. you will never exercise that courage. we need it now. no guarantee that you won't be a victim. you will have your own integrity in tact. >> shannon: what has been the area where you two may be disagree the most? whether it's religion, race or politics? how did you navigate it? >> we wrestle over the scope of the market, kind of revolutionary christian and democratic socialist concerns.

the poor and working class ought to be central no matter where they are and color or gender or sexual orientation. we're concerned about the least of these in the sense of the poor in that way. we struggle over abortion. which is very real. my dear brother believes in the least of these being unborn. i have a disagreement terms of when does that precious something becomes little baby. i identify with his more compassion for the unborn if you believe that unborn is in fact a person immediately. i believe in that it's a matter of women having some control over their bodies on the one hand and that have not equipmenconvincedthat baby is b. we have a certain similar empathy for the least of these. which comes out of our own

biblical sensibilities as christian. >> we have some very deep fundamental agreements. often our disagreements very important disagreements are about how to get where we agree where we need to go. how do we lift the poor out of poverty. i look at the record of socialist systems. i say not so good for poor people. >> in the actual example, that's true. capitalism so far enactment hasn't been able to eliminate poverty either. we got to find ways to keeping the focus on poor people. >> you notice that both of us avoid ending up in extreme positions on these issues. >> shannon: there's a lot of impasse on capitol hill. any advice to folks who seem they might be talking past each other? >> i think there's too much self-righteousness and arrogance on both sides. it's so easy to keep track w.

corruption of the republican party. the problem is, the crises is more acute and more intense. we're reaching a point of impasse for the possibility of democracy can be called into question. that's what we're dealing with at the moment. that's a matter of both parties. we need to be willing to learn from each other. that means genuinely listening to each other. deep in my understanding, by understanding why a person as intelligent as i am, as well intentioned i hope i am, would reach a different conclusion. >> shannon: i love the description that you give. you found a way to joyfully disagree with each other. gentlemen, may your example be there for the rest of us. thank you both. >> thank you very much. >> shannon: something to aspire to. up next, final thought for our weekend. mass general brigham -- when you need some of the brightest minds in medicine.

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>> shannon: that's it for us today. thank you for joining us. may we all take time to reflect on the legacy of dr. martin luther king jr. this weekend and the days ahead. have a great week. we'll see you back here for next "fox news sunday."

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in some areas prone to flooding are flooding again. we're live from highway 37 in the north bay, where it's been closed due to flooding, and we'll have the latest from officials and just like the rain in the bay. the snow just keeps coming to the sierra. we're going to take a look at what you see. berkley central sierra snow lab logged in the amount of snow they've received, plus second and goal purty scans. francisco. man what a game that was. the niners took home. a win in the first game of the playoffs will bring him a closer look at that game, and we'll tell