why would joseph campbell have shot tim neumann in cold blood? well, remember that video of campbell taken by a hunting party in 2008? >> private property, you don't have permission. >> we are? >> prosecutors played it for the jury, to show that campbell wasn't afraid to confront and chase off anybody who dared cross his property, even when he was out numbered. >> you could see on that video he was not scared of those that he was terrified of tim neumann, a man, a neighbor of his that he had known seeminged implausible. >> nor was that an isolated incident. >> how would you describe that relationship. >> one word, miserable. >> and he looked up at me and he said, i don't know who you are, mr., but you're trespassing and i don't want to see you again. >> this woman was an army

with her father, when they were presented with campbell and his shotgun. >> hey, sweetheart, who are you? >> we are trying to go on a horseback ride. hey, i have to go back to iraq tomorrow, he refused to put the shotgun down. he started waiving, this is my property and this is my property, and you scant be on my property. >> the clearest proof that joe campbell intended and planned to kill tim newman, his own words, like what he said to t county attorney who declined to prosecute timms for cutting locks, this was days before the shooting. >> he told me if i wasn't going to take care of mr. neumann, he would. >> and this one. >> he did refer to tim leaving the top of the mountain in a body bag. >> joe's words to a contractor, two days before the shooting. >> he cleared his jacket back from his pistol and touched his

newman, i'm going to push him down, i'm going to put him down, lemonde the. >> he said he was going to kill him, and then he killed him. it was murder. >> the rule in montana is as clear as day, you can't -- you can defend your castle if threatened, but absent a threat, murder is what it is. what could joe campbell possibly say about that? as it turned out, lots. coming up -- >> i was trying to stay alive. that's all i want to do. it's him or me, and i shot him. i did. >> dramatic testimony from the accused. but would a jury believe him? so all these people came into court, took an oath and have lied in front of this jury, is that correct? >> objection.

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trap and lock up to 4x more dirt, dust and hair than the store brand stop cleaning. start swiffering. point of view can change everything, can't it? perspective. even in the crisp, clear montana air where here inside the grand old courtroom the view was about

>> this is joe campbell's attorney, greg jackson who wanted the jury to see justifiable shooting by a terrified man in fear for his life. >> he was faced with a decision at that point. try to stay alive or die. >> all that fancy forensic testimony by dr. westerner -- werner spitz, and then vincent dimaio. >> you have to have description of where the shooter is, then you can say this is consistent or it is not consistent at all. >> in this case dr. da my oh came to a different conclusion.

>> he offered his own theory, tim could have been jumping or falling backwards when the first bullet hit his hand and chest and the second shot hit him in the back. duelling experts maybe cancel each other. if joe campbell was walking out of the courtroom a free man, the defense had to hope the jury perceived him and her in a favorable way. >> joe campbell is my husband. >> how long have you two been married? >> 23 years. >> the only other survivor of the confrontation on the hill. so far you heard joe campbell was a bully. >> isn't any right of way through here. >> he was a threatening, mean, dangerous old man, unafraid and

tim newman driving a pickup that confronted them as they walked to their horse pasture. >> he said joe and tani, finally found you. joe just said tim, we've given you notice you're not welcome at our place, please don't harass us. >> were you afraid of him when you were next to the road? >> i was startled, joe just said let's go, and he just hollered out his window c just get it over with right now. and then he did drive off. >> that's why she said she and joe were afraid of tim. and why on october 18th as she and joe walked toward home they were alarmed to see tim coming up behind them. >> what were the things that made you believe he was going to physically harm you? >> he was just wanting to cut

up the hill? why would he do that? we were watching him. he was on his atv and he was off his atv and grabbing bolt cutters. he was unpredictable, highly agitated. >> what do you and joe decide to do next? >> joe just kept saying you need to try to get out of here, get safe, go home, call the sheriff. i didn't want to leave joe. >> but she did leave, she says, and on the way to calling 911 heard gunshots, placed the call, rushed back, and -- >> i saw joe standing at the gate, he said he came at me with the gun and i didn't have a choice. and i saw mr. newman lying on the ground. >> and in the sometimes tense cross examination, prosecutors point out not so gently that elements of her story changed also from previous interviews.

campbell's. >> call joe campbell to the stand. >> so sometimes frightened grandfather of seven or neighborhood bully that brandished his weapon at neighbors and strangers. the defense sat out changing perceptions. the neighbors, the hunters. >> did you threaten them with a shotgun, anything of that nature? >> no. they were trespassing, i asked them to leave. >> the army colonel and her father. >> ever point a shotgun at us? >> no, sir. >> no getting around the fact he told the deputy da he was going to take care of tim newman himself. could be more than one way to perceive that, could there?

frustrated. i was really frustrated. >> legal action, he was just a peaceful, frustrated man and was terrified when tim chased them up the hill in a rage that day in october, 2013. man had murder in his eyes, said joe. >> it's hard to stand up here and say in front of everybody, but i was trying to stay alive. that's all i wanted to do. thinking about tani, my kids, my grandkids. it was him or me, and i shot him. i did. >> had joe campbell succeeded in changing the jury's perception? before mr. campbell could leave the witness stand, the prosecutor got a chance to cross examine him and again present the bully of the mountain, the neighbors said they knew too

>> lamont moltre says approximately two to three days before you shot and killed mr. neumann, you told him, i'm going to put him down. did you say that to mr. moltre? >> i did not. >> so all these people came into court, took an oath and lied in front of the jury, is that right? >> objection, your honor. >> ultimately the prosecutor said joe campbell could have avoided a cont wanted it. >> all you have to do to save your wife, save yourself, is to turn downhill and walk, jog, run down the hill. >> i looked at the options, it is a hell of a lot harder on the hill side when somebody is threatening you than to be here in the courtroom two-and-a-half years later. >> if you were a juror, what

mountain? was it murder or self defense? coming up. waiting for the jury. >> there's so much anxiousness. >> hoping for justice. >> who is this guy can steal

on the 3rd of march, 2016, in the old supreme court chamber of montana's state capital building, the question went to the jury. did joe campbell have a right to shoot tim newman? was it self defense? or was it cold-blooded murder. neighbors dan and sue della

willed their thoughts into the jury room. >> i believe he murdered him. >> murder, absolutely. >> they knew full well since montana passed a new law legalizing certain kinds of self defense, it was hard to know what a jury might decide. >> find him not guilty, there will be for sale signs for everywhere up there. >> nervous hours around the old courtroom which turned into a whole day and then a second. >> there's so much anxiousness come back. >> and then just after noon, day two, the jury sent the judge a note. >> please be seated. >> everybody was summoned to the courtroom. >> i am told that you folks are hopelessly deadlocked and that even if given more time you couldn't reasonably expect to reach a decision. is that your understanding of events? >> yes, your honor. >> i am going to declare a

>> a mistrial, three weeks of testimony for naught. >> the state may or may not bring the case again. thank you. >> i couldn't believe it. it was a complete shock for the family that he could just leave that courtroom, not have a guilty or not guilty and like nothing happened. like nothing happened. >> what was the state to do? well, this case said the prosecutors, the decisiowa obvious. they offered joe campbell a plea deal and scheduled a retrial because. >> it is a dangerous situation and i'm concerned it will be repeated and somebody else will be killed. >> joe campbell remained out on bail with the proviso he remain ten miles from his property on the mountain.

elected not to face a second trial. instead he walked into a courtroom and waived his claim that the shooting was legal. >> how do you plead to the charge of negligent homicide? >> no contest, your honor. >> a plea of no contest, meaning campbell neither admitted nor denied the charge that he committed negligent homicide. reduced charge from the original allegation of intentional homicide, montana's parlance for firth degree murder. interest of myself and my family. >> in a case like this, said prosecutors, you take what you can get. >> focusing on community protection. and we think it's probably the best agreement we could reach and have a guaranteed resolution of this case. >> before the judge pronounced sentence, tim newman's wife jackie went to the podium. >> just because you are callous and have no remorse, i want you

have affected our lives in a horrendous way. >> tim's daughter, christie, also sent a statement, unable to be present because she just had a baby, a granddaughter tim never got to see. >> my dad died a hero. what will you die? >> it makes me very angry, yeah, very upset, very sad. like who is this guy that can just steal such a beautiful soul from this world. chance to explain or apologize. >> is there anything you would like to say? >> no, your honor. >> campbell also declined a chance to explain on "dateline." his lawyer released a statement saying the plea agreement allowed mr. campbell and his wife and family to go forward with certainty of freedom and removal of constant stress and anxiety, while still allowing him to maintain his innocence and continue to maintain he acted necessarily in self defense.

>> the sentence was of course part of the deal with the state, 20 years. but not in any prison. all of it suspended sentence. >> no fines or restitution imposed. >> as neighbors listened, the judge told joe he'll have to abide by some very important conditions. he'll never again be allowed to possess a firearm and 20 years, even if he manages to live that long, he cannot return to th mountain he once called home. he will never again set foot in his house, his forest, his trail, his precious property. >> ironic, isn't it, you care so much about your property that you never get to see it again. >> yeah. >> yeah. it is very ironic. you know, before he owned all the big property, he recreated like all of us.

life was good. when he decided he needed to take control is when it all changed. >> like a fable, isn't it? >> yes. >> aesop could have written it. >> there you go. >> and if tim neumann were on a cloud up there somewhere, for his daughter christie, he'd be telling her -- she knows exactly what he'd say. >> i'm sorry, sorry, darling. sorry for going up to that gate, i'm sorry i am not there to meet my granddaughter. i'm sorry we can't go on another hike together. i love you, you know. >> praise the lord for this country. >> that's all for now. i'm lester holt, thanks for

accuse donald trump of sexual misconduct -- >> he grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me. >> trump keeps denying the stories, all of them. >> the stories are total fiction. >> this morning my interview with vice-president joe biden. >> what he said is a textbook definition of sexual assault. >> and with the republican nominee for pence. now that trump says the shackles are off, how damaging has this episode been? the latest numbers from our brand-new nbc news wall street journal poll. the great american divide. we go to one county that's all in for trump. >> hillary has so much stuff against her. i don't see how anybody can vote for her. >> and another where everyone seems to be for clinton. >> i don't understand how people are voting for him.

joy reid, chris cillizza and kristen welker of nbc news. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. every week we say it and every week it's true. there's never been a week like this in american presidential politics. here we go again. admittedly the number of women who came forward claiming donald trump had groped, propositions or sexually harassed them. as the trump campaign began to buckle, republicans feared that his troubles would metastasize and take out down ballot republicans threatening the party's hold on the senate and perhaps even the house. we have a new indication of just how dire things have become for trump. in our new poll out right now, hillary clinton leads donald

if you limit it to likely voters, check this out, clinton's lead grows to 48% 37% before likely voter models would actually help trump, not in this case. but there's a silver lining for republicans in this poll. it may be in congress where the democratic lead has snapped back to two points. a week ago, it had opened up to seven. these numbers come after a head shaking week when trump was underon seemed to be at war with just about everyone. in the face of more accusations of sexual assault, trump is lashing out. >> it's a rigged election, because you have phony people coming up with phony allegations. >> nine women have come forward. jessica says she sat next to him on a plane in 1979. >> when he started putting his hand up my skirt and that was

the '90s. >> the person on my right who unbeknowned to me was donald trump, put this hand up my skirt. >> a "people" magazine writer was interviewing the trumps. she says, i turned around and within seconds he was pushing me against the wall and forcing his tongue down my throat. a former contens apprentice." >> i pushed his chest, put space between us. i said, come on, man, get real. he repeated i had words back to me, get real. as he began thrusting his genitals. >> report >> trump has denies them. instead, abeinattacking. >> some are doing it for probably a little fame. >> even suggesting that they

>> believe me, she would not be my first choice that i can tell you. >> he has blamed media, the clintons. he has blamed a mexican billionaire. the trump campaign has pushed back on all of the allegations, offering a british man who says it it was jessica who was being f flirtatious. trump released a statement on summer write being, i never met her at a hotel or greeted her inappropriately a decade ago. in fact, she continued to contact me for help, e-mail mig office on april 14th of this year, asking that i visit her restaurant in california. all of these allegations led to a passionate speech by michelle obama who rarely weighed in to partisan politics this steeply.

it has shaken me to my core in a way that i couldn't have predicted. >> i'm thursday, i sat down with vice-president joe biden at a union hall in las vegas where he was campaigning in an attempt to help hillary clinton lock down the state of nevada. i began by asking the vice-president about those accusations of sexual assault against donald trump. why shouldn't he get the benefit of the doubt? from these accusers. >> his own words. i don't have to even go to the cc said is a textbook definition of sexual assault. i mean, it's a text book definition. the thing that is -- makes it so believable that he engaged in that kind of activity is not just that he said it but his sort of instinctive abuse of power. he acts in the private sector,

in the penthouse. i'm a billionaire. i'm a star. and i can do what i want. that's the most disturbing piece. my father used to say, the greatest abuse is abuse of power. economic power, political power, physical power. and this is not a guy that should be representing the united states in any way. >> why do you think voters yet? >> i don't know how deeply it has sunk into the consciousness. i don't know that we think that something gets said once, twice, ten times, a thousands times over a weekend and everyone absorbs it. most people are trying to figure out how to put bread and butter on the table. so i don't know. i think it's sunk in pretty

around the country in a pretty substantial way so far. >> we have a culture that has given this a permission slip. >> this is a new level. and i was with my -- helping my granddaughter with a paper. she's a bright young woman. i was embarrassed. i was embarrassed to even -- i have four granddaughters. i was embarrassed that this is even being discussed. >> a lesson for men. i heard a lot of people say as the father or the mother of two daughters or three daughters or -- what about the message to young men or young boys? >> i did this virtual town hall meeting with thousands of students. and i asked them to go to a website. what can we do to better protect them? you know what the overwhelming answer was? get men involved. the vast majority of men don't

i was a pretty good athlete in high school and college. i don't ever remember that kind of locker room talk. never. you might have a guy say, look at that or -- make comments like that. but the idea that she lets me do anything because i'm a celebrity is just sick. what's wrong is, we have to change the whole culture here. and that no man has a right to touch a woman, to raise a hand to a woman, to abuse a woman we have actually had cases -- i have a federal law passed. a judge asking a woman, well, you were in the bar. were you wearing underwear, how short was your skirt? no man has a right to touch a woman. >> the last time this really impacted our politics was clarence thomas and anita hill did an interview. she expressed disappointment in you. >> she did. >> what was your reaction to that? >> my reaction was, i thought it

i voted against clarence thomas. i believed her. the question was whether or not she should be able to initially -- should she be able to make her complaint without identifying herself. you can't run a star chamber. you have do that. it was, very, very, very tough. >> anything you do differently? >> no. no. >> as you know, donald trump is bringing up everything bill clinton right now. should that matter? >>no i can't make an excuse for bill clinton's conduct. and i wouldn't ateltempt to. he was impeached. he expressed his deep sorrow and acknowledged what he did. this guy as i said has acknowledged that he has been a sexual predator. he has acknowledged he abused his power.

definition of a sexual assault. >> let's talk about this working class white voter issue that democrats seem to have. sort of the people that you speak to. biden voters. he just look at pennsylvania right now, the 15 counties that make up northeast pennsylvania, you and the president won by three points. right now she trails by eight points. it's clear there is something a lack of connectivity or something with trump. what's your diagnosis? >> you were a friend of my he was a greated eadmirer of y. i might find myself choking up. everybody says, he's a good father. what a decent guy. she chokes up and says something, for whatever reason, and she's playing the woman card. this is the -- this is the -- this is different. number one. number two, the truth is, i don't think we -- i'm a broken record on the democratic party on this.

the plight of family, husband and wife making 80$80,000, $90,0 and they are struggling. >> they worry about this minority group, they worry about these voters over here, they worry about this state. what about me? >> they don't talk to me. >> that's what i hear. >> i do, too. so much time dragging a car out of the ditch, worrying about going over the cliff, dealing with people who didn't have enough to eat, making sure people were able to just hang on that it's only now that we got the economy back and wages are starting to rise that we can begin to focus on what is a large portion of the middle class who has felt like they have been left behind and we don't talk to their needs. >> let's talk about her then. what's your advise to her?

president obama used bitter, cling to your guns and bible. he never shook that with a certain part of the electorate. she may never shake deplorables. how should she try? >> by demonstrating where her heart is, what she cares about. when she cares about -- she cares about the people struggling. that's been who she is. look, as i said, i know her well. she has been so batter a we all make mistakes. she has made mistakes, too. for her to open up -- for example, i remember talking to her about having -- i had breakfast there every tuesday morning when she was secretary of state at my home. and i remember talking about college and paying for college and telling a story about how my dad tried to borrow money to help -- i had a grant and aid but get me enough money. i went to his place of business.

something. i walked out, he was pacing back and forth. i'm so ashamed. i'm so ashamed. my word, i'm so ashamed. i went to the bank and they won't lend me the money. i'm so ashamed. she is sitting across from me filling up because she understands that it's not just the kid that doesn't get a chance, it's how many middle class people have been stripped of their dignity, stripped of their -- the one thing -- >> you understand why they are gravitating to trump right to somebody that says, i'm going to make it better again. >> i do. but it's not -- i don't think there's so much gravitating to trump. they have been stung so badly by the recession, hurt so bad. we lost $17 trillion in household wealth in the recession. if you lost your home and you are not back in a home and you don't benefit. when the market was -- if you lost your investment in the market through your 401(k), and

made the big money -- they look around and say, wait a minute. >> i want to go to syria here. i know you are doing a big session that's coming up next week about what to do. why is there not a no-fly zone over aleppo? >> simple proposition. the first things first. we must defeat isil. we must take out raqqah. we must take out mosul. we must it's the direct immediate threat to the american people. number one. dod told us in the beginning that the assets we need to be able do that would have to be diverted. we could not do both, could not do both. that's number one. number two, we -- in order to be able to do what needs to be done, you remember, we tried to get the authority to use force before. all those republicans talked

i spoke to 156 members of the house and senate for a minimum of an hour. groups of two to 25 in the situation room. no support. no support. okay. they would say, what happens? we send planes over there. they get shot down. we have to go in and get them. yeah, we have to go in and get them. >> let me ask you this, how does syria not become the rwanda of this administration that you wonder what if, what if >> >> this is complicated. we have to deal with central and eastern iraq to clear isil. that will fundamentally change -- >> once mosul is taken care of you, you think the focus can be back on syria and trying to solve this? >> raqqah, too. raqqah is the central place where we know plotting is taking place against the homeland in those areas. secondly, russia is in real trouble.

quagmire. they have economic problems. they are dragged into this. isil gone, russia in a totally different place creates a lot of additional opportunities. >> we're not going to regret not doing more in aleppo? >> the answer is, we regret whenever anyone dies. i regret that we're not doing something about mutilation in africa. i regret there's problems in afghanistan. but there has to be a s be done at the time. what we're doing is the right thing, generating a consensus among the arab countries as to what we should be doing in the region. and at the same time, going after isil to destroy it. >> final question. i talked with former russian ambassador and we talked about the idea that -- you gotta respond when they are hacking. you have to do something.

one, maybe just sort of -- in baseball, you throw a high hard one to send a message. why haven't we sent a message yet to putin? >> we're sending a message. we have the capacity to do it. the message -- >> he will know it? >> he will know it. it will be at the time of our choosing. and under the circumstances that have the greatest impact. >> will it be enough that it will get him to back off? how concerns a country will question the result of the election? >> i am not concerned. the reason i'm not is we're working closely with all the departments of elections across the country, number one. number two, the american people are pretty damn resilient. the capacity to do -- to fundamentally alter the election is -- it is not what people think. i tell you what. to the extent they do, we will

>> a message is going to be sent? will the public know it? >> hope not. >> when we come back, the man who would like to have joe biden's job. biden's job. donald trump's running welcome to the world 2116, you can fly across town in minutes or across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait.

one republican whose representation has not suffered is donald trump's running mate mike pence. in our new poll, pence's total positive rating was plus eight points. just 28% negative. that put him ahead of paul ryan, the republican party as a hole and donald trump. governor pence joins me now from tampa, florida. welcome back to the program. >> good morning. good to be with you. >> let me start with getting your reaction to michelle obama's speech from earlier this week. le >> so while i would love nothing more than to pretend like this isn't happening and to come out here and do my normal campaign speech, it would be dishonest and disingenuous to me to just move on to the next thing like this was all just a bad dream. this is not something that we can ignore. it's not something we can just sweep under the rug as just another disturbing footnote in a sad election season.

speaking directly about donald trump's comments caught on the 2005 video. do you agree with her comments that they should not be swept under the rug? >> let me say that i have tremendous respect for the first lady and for her efforts on behalf of the american people over the last seven and a half years. the simple fact is that donald trump made comments in an open mike 11 years ago that he has expressed deep regret for. he is embarrassed about it. he clear that it was just talk. he has apologized to his family. i accept that apology. i truly do believe that this election -- this election is of such an ee nonormous magnitude it's important we move beyond this issue. it's important that we focus on the need for a stronger america at home and abroad. as i traveled across florida this week and across the country, the people that i'm

restoring this country and reviving our economy and that's where we're going to continue to be focused. >> donald trump does not want to move off of this issue. in fact, he said he has been getting advice saying that, but instead, he has been responding to every single accusation. here is what he has said about a couple of the different accusers. >> she's right. she's a liar. she's a liar. she's writing a story -- check out her facebook page. you will understand. airplane. and he went after me on the plane. yeah, i'm going to go after -- believe me, she would not be my first choice. that i can tell you. man. you don't know. that would not be my first choice. >> that was friday, governor pence. you just dismissed it as just talk. we have nine accusers that have come out since you have said

>> i really do, chuck. what we have this week is a series of unsubstantiated allegations. and donald trump -- >> let me stop you there. they are not unsubstantiated. >> he has denied those allegations. >> you have firsthand accounts. they are unproven, but they are not unsubstantiated. you have a firsthand account. we have somebody that disagrees with that account. but they are substantiated. no? >> well, no, these are not these are people who have brought forward allegations going back in some cases decades. and donald trump has made it clear that he categorically denies these things ever took place. i have to tell you, it really is astonishing to most americans that as these unsubstantiated allegations are treated with an enormous amount of coverage on this network and other networks, that revelations coming out of secretary of state clinton's years in the state department and the clinton foundation are

national media. we discovered this week that state department officials actually directed contracts for the haitian recovery after the earthquake to friends of the clintons. literally, that got almost no media attention while those that step forward with these unsubstantiated claims that donald trump has denied were treated with headline news and continuous coverage. it's one of the reasons why so many americans feel like they election is being rigged by a ti trying to change the subject away from and practice willful ignorance toward the corruption and misdeeds and pay for play politics of the clintons. >> do you believe that women who believe they were victimized by sexual assault, that come out, they should be ignored? hasn't that been part of the problem with rooting out sexual assault in our culture is that there is this feeling that women

disparage any woman who believes they have had an experience like this. but donald trump has made it clear that these allegations are categorically false. we have had more evidence that has come out to challenge those versions of the facts. the ignorance -- ignoring that's going on here is the way the national media is ignoring an avalanche of real, hard evidence of corruption during the years "the new york times" just a few minutes ago posted a story about -- in exchange for five minutes with bill clinton, the government of qatar was going to give $1 million to the clinton foundation. we know that more than half of hillary clinton's meetings while she was secretary of state were given to major contributors to the clinton foundation. the haitian government think, the speeches about open borders, socialized medicine, it's getting virtually no attention. >> you just cited "the new york

>> denied by donald trump are getting all the attention. the american people see right through it. >> you cited "the new york times." obviously, not a small news organization. we have been reporting on this. front page of nbcnews.com. we will report on this throughout the show. your running mate is the one under fire with this. let me ask you this, for a long time, you used to refer to donald trump as this good man. you haven't done that this week. any reason for that change? >> sure i have, chuck. the donald trump i have come to know loves his family, loves this country. he has made a connection to millions of americans because he has given voice to the frustrations and the aspirations of the american people. when you have the president of france over this weekend say that it was because of barack obama's and hillary clinton's foreign policy of moving red lines in syria that russia was emboldened to invade ukraine and take a larger role in syria,

that -- america has weakened at home and abroad because of the policies of obama and clinton. >> you brought up russia. do you -- i know you are getting intelligence briefings. do you believe the american intelligence that says russia is behind all of these hacks into former white house chief of staff, john podesta, the dnc, do you believe the american intelligence c evidence that implicates russia. there should be serious consequences. >> why doesn't your running made -- >> the privacy and security of the american people. >> why doesn't your running mate believe that? >> i certainly hope what the vice-president said this morning is something they follow through on. >> why does your running mate not believe -- >> this is an administration has spoken things on the foreign stage and not followed through like moving red lines, fa -- mye

flow to russia that there are serious consequences. remember, this avalanche of e-mails -- >> governor, governor, governor, why doesn't injure running mate believe what you believe about a foreign government in russia trying to hack into the american democracy? >> donald trump and i believe we should follow the facts. america should stand strong. we should stand up for cyber security. he had an entire presentation about his call for a new security task force bringing together some of the best minds in the country to protect america's privacy,rllect intellectual and defense. it's not just flowing out of wikileaks. it was abc news, a freedom of information request, that was able to uncover the fact that while she was secretary of state, hillary clinton's staff was directing contracts for the

>> i understand -- again, you keep saying unsubstantiated. that's not true. you have a firsthand account. it's unproven. but they're not unsubstantiated. let me ask you this final question. bill crystal earlier this week tweeted at what point are you going to feel uncomfortable defending donald trump? he said, given that he has be campaign, does mike pence have the self-respect to resign from the ticket? how do you respond to bill crystal? >> i accepted the invitation to run for vice-president of the united states, chuck, because i think this country is in a lot of trouble. i think donald trump has articulated a vision to make america great again that's connected with millions of americans, despite the opbvious bias in the media and attacks against donald trump, i have to

he had in new hampshire and maine yesterday attest to the fact the american people want change. for me and my little family, we're going to continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with this man and fight all the way through election day and deliver a great victory for america. we're going to make america great again. >> will you accept the results of the election? >> we will absolutely accept the results of the election. look, the american people will speak in an election that will culminate on november 8. the the obvious bias in the national media. that's where the sense of a rigged election goes here, chuck. >> when you say -- >> when the media comes in with negative attacks against my running mate, instead of focusing on the hard evidence coming out about corruption -- >> are you at all -- >> in the clinton foundation years, it's why people are frustrated. >> the more you say rigged election -- >> we will fight through. we will accept the will of the american people. >> you keep saying rigged election. are you concerned that the more

actually undermine our democracy unintentionally? >> look, one of the great, great traditions of america is the peaceful transfer of power. in elections -- you are a student of history. elections get rough. i expect they're going to stay just as rough as they are right now going into november the 8th. the stakes are so high in this election. but as donald trump said in that first debate, and i will say to you today, we will accept the will of the american people. between now and election day, we're going to work our hearts out most of you in the national media. we will go lay out a story for a stronger, more prosperous america. >> i understand why you want to continue to attack us. i think it's misguided attacks. i understand, governor mike pence, i appreciate you coming on the program. thank you. >> you bet. later, what impact will donald trump's struggles have on other races? could the democrats take the house and senate? as we go to break, a few clips

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welcome back. a lot to digest. the panel is here. hugh hewitt, joy reid, chkriste welker. one of them pulls close. i lost large number of women voters that never happened. you have backed away from trump. how did mike pence defend him this morning? >> i thought mike did a very good job. in fact, i'm a "game of throwns" geek and i saw that. >> you and maureen dowd, she made a reference to that, calling him the mad king.

response -- it's so newsworthy what he said about the american department of defense not being able to do mosul and aleppo at the same time, what he said about everything, it leads to, here we have the worst election in modern times when the greatest crises of the post soviet era are growing, it's a disconnect that's beyond me. >> the irony is that donald trump, the last thing he wants to do is talk about syria. >> my takeaway was the end of the interview when you asked him if he would acc results. he said, yes. donald trump is sending out the opposite message. he is trying to lay the groundwork for this idea that the election is rigged. yesterday you had the clinton campaign and paul ryan coming out in very strong terms saying we will respect the results of this election. republicans increasingly concerned that they need to be louder about that so that whatever happens on election day is respected. >> i think you see the struggle