were in his words insufficient. have they been fixed now with this new set of guidelines to your satisfaction? >> let me explain. i know it gets confusion. the guidelines that were on the cdc were who guidelines that worked well for many, many years in approaching patients who have ebola in the african setting. which is in a much less well developed setting. not the care. now when you have patients here we do things that are much more aggressive with patients intubation. so the explore level is different particularly you are

keeping patient as live because you have the capability. those guidelines had aspects about it that we are going to improve on. for example, the guidelines did have exposure of skin in the sense you had a mask but there was skin that was exposed and hair exposed. that is the thing that now in our setting of care we want to make sure that that is no longer the case. that you have essentially everything covered. when he says he does not know. yes, that is true. we don't know. but we know they were in a situation where there was clearly an identifiable potential for how they got infected >> schieffer: that is the part as a layman that bothers me of the all this time has passed and they what he says they don't have a clue. >> well, again -- schieffer: that is my word. there is no definite. you can't say that she definitely got infected here. she went from a less stringent

to a more stringent protocol. she was not only on the original protocol as soon as they found out that this person was positive by the lab test, then they switched over to a much more stringent protocol. he is right. you don't know if she is infected here or in the more stringent protocol. but common sense will tell you that it's much more likely that you get infected with skin exposed as opposed to not skin exposed >> schieffer: is an ebola czar, ron klain who had been a chief of staff to vice-president gore and later to vice-president biden to take charge of this, is that going to help? >> well, it's going to be coordination. it's going to be ebola response coordinator. we do not call him a czar. it is the ebola response coordinator. and right now since you have multiple agencies working well together that coordination has

been handled extremely well by lisa monica and by susan rice. but they have important day jobs too. what you need is a coordination and ron will be doing that on a full-time basis >> schieffer: you don't see this as something that should have a healthcare professional in charge? >> not necessarily. there are health officials, myself, the cdc and others you don't need to be a healthcare person. you need to be somebody who is a good organizer and his experience is extraordinary. he has been chief of staff to a couple of vice-presidents and has a lot of experience >> schieffer: let me ask you this: a lot of republicans and now some democrats are demanding a travel ban on people coming from liberia. you are a health professional. does that help? is that a good idea? would it make a difference? >> well, first of all we certainly know the people who think about that and suggest it are people of good faith who feel that that is going to help.

and we feel that there are some downsides that could be counterproductive. that if you do a ban that you then lose the direct control of knowing exactly who is coming over so you will be able to track them. that's one of the disadvantages. but it isn't like they are completely wrong and don't know what they are talking about. because it is a reasonable thing to propose. we happen to think that the downside is properly more than what the upside is. >> we wish you the best. this is a tough one. thank you for joining us. we are going to turn now to our cbs news chief medical correspondent dr. jon lapook who is working intern's hours. he is on the job all the time here lately. dr. lapook bring us up to speed. it looks like these are going to be more stringent guidelines. what do we need to be doing that we are not doing? what have we done that works?

and what didn't work? >> well, i think the biggest point here is he is saying we have to be thinking on our feet. if the protocols did not work the way they were then we have to change them. and i spoke to one of my colleagues in nyu medical center where i am a professor and he said it's about the nitty-gritty. in the emergency room and up in the hospital thinking about protocols there are things they did not used to think about. there is a green and yellow and red zone. the red zone is where the patient is actually is. and they are think being moving the door for example to put to give you more space in the red zone so when were youth in you are able to take off your equipment and put it in bins before going into the yellow room. things like that that we weren't doing before. he is talking about having a buddy system there. about having drills all the time and about communication. so as they have gone through the drills at least at nyu they are finding out we didn't do this

and realize this was supposed to be there or this person was supposed to be notified and one by one they are trying to get rid of the natural mistakes that people could make because we are not used to dealing with this >> schieffer: let me ask you. the lab worker from texas presbyterian that went on a cruise and they had to the cruise ship could not get in and mexico would not let them into a port. they come back to galveston as we understand it. do you have any information on that particular patient? >> i spoke to the cdc a couple minutes ago and i was told the patient is feeling fine no symptoms. we have been saying and told over and over again that you cannot be infectious until you are symptomatic. there is not a big risk there. >> dr. jon lapook thank you. and we will be coming back to you if you stand by later in the

broadcast. we want to go now to a panel of experts who represent the people on the frontlines, america's doctors, hospitals and nurses. dr. robert wah is a president of the american medical association, richard umbdenstock is the president and c.e.o. of the american hospital association, and in minneapolis we are joined by jean ross the copresident of the national nurses united. and ms. ross i want to start with you. your organization is the largest in the country. and last week you had some scathing criticism of the outrageous handling as you called it of ebola at the texas health presbyterian hospital. they have apologized and admitted that mistakes were made. do you accept that? and where do we go from here on this?

>> an apology is nice but a corporate c.e.o. apology does not save lives. where we go is to listen to us which we have been begging for since the get go. once you've got the evidence that we were correct that people are not prepared, nurses are not prepare federal we say we are not we are not. it unfortunately has been born out with the threats to the health and safety of the rn's and other workers. one thing we have done is write a letter to president obama asking that he set a uniform national standard that all hospitals must comply with in this system we have in this country. and we have a petition on-line at national nurses united.org that we wish everybody would sign electronically to let him know that the public is solidly behind us in this >> schieffer: just review for us, if you will, some of the things that you say went wrong

at texas presbyterian and what do you think needs to be done here? >> well, in this country, because of the system we have we don't have a national system, it's piecemeal it's fragmented so each hospital is going to do according to i believe cdc guidelines what they want to do. now, they choose normally in this country the hospitals choose to like adapting to the equipment et cetera that they already have and they are always looking at the bottom line. so what we want and need is similar to what you find at emory in nebraska, nebraska has become the gold standard for us. so that particular type of equipment hazmat suit and masks and the buddy system where we can watch each other don and dock and make sure the seams are taped that kind of thing and then allow our professional

judgment which tells you we should not be caring for more than one patient if we have an ebola patient. and minimally two per patient and then more if necessary. but you got to take into account that the nurses will tell you how much they can handle. so we have been asking for the proper equipment. we have been insisting on the staffing that is what the petition is about. that is what we expect to save lives. >> schieffer: all right. thank you so much. we are going to turn to dr. robert wah and mr. richard umbdenstock. dr. robert wah as a doctor the nurse makes serious charges. and i must say that the hospital takes something of a different slant on some of the things she has said. is she right? >> well, i think we all want to be as protected as possible in our work. and i think that is what she is expressing. and she is also expressing the need for preparation. and i think we are doing a great deal of preparation in this

country. we have dealt with infectious diseases many, many times before. the aids epidemic and the other sars epidemic we had. we know how to deal with contagious diseases and i think we are responding in appropriate ways to do that. there are always opportunities to improve on that. but i think we have a great deal of experience in this country and we are using that to prepare ourselves. i think right now is a time for preparation not panic. and i think we are doing that today. >> schieffer: mr. richard umbdenstock? >> absolutely. every hospital wants to protect its patients and its workers. there's no question about that. we want to have the right equipment and we want to have the right protocols and we want to be practicing those protocols and improving them all the time. filling in where we find the gaps as mentioned earlier. every opportunity to improve is a nugget. and we have to use it. but, there's no question that there's no hospital in this country that wants to endanger any employees and certainly not

patients. >> schieffer: do we have to have more stringent guidelines? we are hold you heard dr. fauci maybe within the hour we will get new guidelines from the cdc. the people at texas presbyterian said they did not reach any protocol they followed the protocols yet they cannot say how the nurses became infected? >> as dr. fauci said the protocols have been changing and we have been retraining to the new protocols. we are anxious for this next set of guidelines and hoping to have them before this. we understand that cdc wants to vet them and make sure they are right before they come out but we are anxious to have them so we know exactly the next level to which we are expected to perform >> schieffer: doctor we were not prepared for this? as we found out the first patient that shows up at a hospital they sent him home. nobody would do something like

that on purpose. but the hospitals weren't really prepared and they didn't know what to expect, did they? >> well, you know, i think that as i said, i think we have a great body of experience with infectious diseases. and there obviously are looking backwards ways we would have done things differently. i cannot speak to the specifics of the texas hospital i was not there. i don't know the details of that. but there are good guidelines in place that have been vetted and have been reviewed by experts and we believe are in place to help us diagnose who has the virus, make sure we isolate them appropriately and protect them. the workers and the other patients. and it is a dynamic situation we have to recognize that. this is not something that we can always anticipate every possible aspect of it. and we have to be dynamic in our

response and learn from each other and make sure -- >> schieffer: do you two have confidence in the centers for disease control and prevention? >> yes. we work closely with them. we understand that they are operating in realtime with this as well. they are the nation's expert. they are frankly the expert to which the world turns. but as dr. wah says you don't know what you don't know until you are into a battle and then you have to react quickly. and that is what we are trying to do. we are trying to learn, share and then act anew in a constant learning cycle. >> schieffer: doctor? i agree. i have every confidence in the cdc and this is also a team effort and we've reached out and we released a memo friday of the american medical association and the american hospital association and the american nurses association because this is a team effort it cannot be done by one entity. and we are standing together to fight this battle. >> schieffer: ms. ross do you have confidence in the cdc?

>> yes, and no. and i beg to differ a little bit from what was just said. yes, you cannot anticipate every possibility. but the nurses and other workers did anticipate what they needed before these errors occurred. we had been saying for months we realize what it takes. we recognize. we work with doctors with borders. we know what is required. we know that the knowledge, the equipment what is not being given to us, we have put up with this before. unfortunately in this country, we have a profit-driven healthcare system. and you cannot put a price on nurses and other healthcare workers' life when it comes to the bottom line that is what the hospitals think about. you have guidelines to follow. they knew what kind of equipment was required even with the lesser protocols, our hospitals did not have that. the nurses overwhelmingly told

us this in the surveys. we are not ready. so some of this could have been anticipated and should have. >> schieffer: all right. i thank all three of you for being with us on this very serious and difficult topic. we will be back in a minute to talk about the politics o politf ebola.

>> schieffer: the appointment of long time democratic political operative ron klain to be the country's new ebola czar they don't call him that they call him the person in charge of coordinating, has not gotten much praise from republicans. one person who heard testimony from the cdc congress woman marsha blackburn joins us now from nashville. the republicans wanted a czar appointed and the president appointed one and now you don't like him. why is that?

>> well, bob, i think what we were hopeful was that we were going to have someone who had the experience not only from the medical community but in emergency response that would be out there and help walk not only our nation but the entire globe through this process. you know, general onore or senator bill frist would have been a much more appropriate type of appointee to address this. i don't know ron klain's emergency response experience. maybe the bush-gore recount qualified in that. and i think talking to constituents so many people have said we didn't want somebody to give a spin. we want somebody to give us the facts. and that is what they were hopeful for >> schieffer: let me ask you this: republicans people in congress have been critical of the president, and, yet, the

congress can't break the gridlock long enough to confirm a surgeon general which is supposed to be the top health office in the country. i know that's what the confirmation process takes place in the senate. you are a member of the house. but give me your thoughts on that? >> you know, i think what you have in the house is bipartisan frustration with harry reid and the senate. we have 387 house passed bills and 98% bipartisan, 298 of those bills veto-proof and they are sitting on harry reid's desk and we find it frustrating because the senate has not been able to get the work done. we wish they would come back and do that it would help the country and get things passed that need to be passed. >> schieffer: congresswoman thank you for giving us your side. we will be back in a minute with personal thoughts.

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>> schieffer: beyond the immediate danger posed by ebola, what the situation has exposed should not go unremarked. because to the list of institutions once held in high regard but which have lately come up short, the veterans administration, the irs, yes, the secret service, we now must add the centers for disease control. it's been an all too familiar story. first the calm assurances that all is well. then the press releases saying nothing. finally, the grudging admission mistakes were made. the administration seemed as caught off guard as the rest of us and scrambled to catch up. congress which has done nothing

for years literally and can't break the partisan deadlock long enough to confirm a surgeon general played to form. they launched into a bitter blame game. all this as the chairman of the federal reserve expressed concern the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer which could mean new problems on the economic front. i don't know where all this goes. what i do know is that our once proud shining city on a hill is becoming just a town where nothing works. once we figure out what to do about ebola, maybe we should focus on what to do about that. back in a minute.

>> schieffer: some of our stations are leaving us now. but for most of you we will be right back with a lot more "face the nation," including our panel and a look at the other story. how the war on isis is going. stay with us.

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>> schieffer: welcome back to "face the nation." and we are going back to the ebola story. the world health organization reported friday that ebola now killed 4555 people. but experts say that number is likely to go much higher. cbs news reporter spent six days in monrovia, liberia last week and filed this report about her experience there. >> you really get a sense for a country recently emerging from civil war this ebola virus has been devastating. the land in the capital you are on your guard washing your hands with chlorine before entering public places is mandatory as are the temperature checks. the health system is broken under the strain and is hundreds of infections turn to thousands there is not enough beds to

house the sick. a walk around the capital made it clear there is no infrastructure to speak of in liberia. that is where the united states and other nations started shouldering some of the burden as we saw when we visited general williams at his beach front headquarters. >> the u.s. military is not here to solve ebola. the cdc, the leadership the government of liberia, and the u.s. embassy, the team of teams is what is going to help stop ebola or contribute to stopping ebola. >> but the passionately dedicated doctors without borders points out that building new treatment centers is not enough. who they ask will staff them and care for ebola patients takes long hours of training and they have been sounding the alarm for the last eight months and this is largely been ignored. perhaps the latest dire predictions from the world health organization of 10,000 new infections every week by the end of the year will be the final tipping point.

like any story of misery and suffering there are incredible heros. i have a profound new respect for health workers working in brutal conditions in the stifling suits. like the biologist dr. lucy we caught up with him on a good day a family of three he thought would three-point shot make it walked out of the treatment center ebola free. >> one of the best days of my life. because they survived. >> it takes quite an emotional toll, doesn't it? >> it's worth it. so happy to be here. >> and of course there are the ordinary liberians doing extraordinary things to help. some have the most dangerous jobs in the world. yet they show up day in and day out. like this ambulance team called on a run into the slum to fetch a man showing symptoms of ebola. as they race through the narrow alleys you are reminded how contagious this virus is and one

wrong move could be fatal. the man was placed in a ambulance and he continues to struggle for his life. those who are lucky enough to survive are shunned by their community. there is a lost stigma to arched to ebola. health workers risk their lives everyday. we meet a nurse at j.f.k. hospital. every morning she prays with her children before heading off to treat patients. >> i took off to save life. and her children on on her mind as she suits up in protective gear and careful knowing that exhaustion could be fatal. and yet she is back again the next day. this kind of dedication was truly inspiring to witness. and good to know there are people like diana as ebola is a deeply dehumanizing disease where the sick and dying are deprived of a loving touch. we are used to covering war zones which carry risks but this

battle zone was an assignment like no other. the killer is silent. you don't know when it could attack. and the danger recedes when you leave. here the danger of ebola can be carried within you. >> schieffer: that is one of our heros for being willing to go there and report this story. we want to go back now to cbc news chief medical correspondent dr. jon lapook. i saw the piece earlier and you still get a catch in your thought when you are -- throat when you are watching that story to unfold. it's impossible not to be touched by seeing scenes like that. >> that is for sure. and you know, you see what she said at the end of being invisible that is one of the things that is so frightening to people. but earlier we heard from the nurse who was giving information about what happened. and it rings so true because when i was a third year medical

student i was taken by the elbow to a woman in the hospital and he said this is the chief nurse the head nurse. always listen to the nurses. they are on the frontlines and they are taking care of the patients they know what is happening. and so when the nurses are talking here, boy, should we ever listen to them. >> schieffer: we certainly heard them with the bark off. we've heard bureaucratic language and pr strategies and all that. but everytime i've heard one of the nurses talk about the situation they put it in language we can understand. let me ask you this: what are you hearing about the two nurses who were infected? how are they doing? >> so far they are being treated at specialized centers one at emory and one at the nih and they are stable and doing ok. there is a lesson. we are seeing a shift instead of saying any hospital in the united states can handle this, every hospital in the united states should be able to initially make the diagnosis, but then after that maybe transfer them to specialized

centers. right now there are four of them dr. fauci said they are thinking about getting a few more of those. >> schieffer: and just what as a doctor what do you say to americans out there, step back from this a little bit. sudden people feel generally safe or how should they be feeling right now? >> on the one hand you don't want to pat people on the head and say don't worry everything is ok and on the other hand you don't want panic. the answer is in the middle. the risk to the general community is low. the risk is to the healthcare workers. those are the ones who got infected. we are talking about two nurse who took care of thomas duncan close in contact with bodily fluids. i do understand people's sense of anxiety about it. but it's important here to embrace science to not have magical thinking and to be willing to say you know

something? what we thought is true is not true. this is a changing protocol. changing situation. it's fluid and that is why it is a good step the cdc is saying maybe the protocol was not right we will change it and make sure that every inch of the body is covered. that is an important response. the ability in science and medicine we have a tradition if a mistake is made in a hospital it's called morbidity and mortality conference. and the next week we go together gloves off what did we do wrong? and there was hesitancy to say exactly what went wrong. it's very crucial there's transparency. we learn not only what went wrong but learning from emory and nebraska what went right because they are distributing protocols how to do the ppe for example. >> schieffer: jon lapook we thank you and you have a great bedside manner. we will be right back with our panel.

>> schieffer: for some analysis we are joined by susan glasser editor of politico and gerald seib, the washington bureau chief of the "wall street journal" and the editor at large of time magazine. gerry i start with you. as long as i have been in washington the people at the white house whoever the white house happened to be occupied by, would say look the white house is wherever the president is. the president can operate from

any place. but last week at the end of the week, we saw the president deciding he better stay home for a while. is this a sign that there is a new attitude there that things are changing? >> well, i think it is a sign that the optics were not working well for the white house. and there was saturday night meeting last night and a statement put out last night saying the president met with advisors, 18 of them that is a sign they want to send a signal to the people we are on the case. you have to make the case that you areth charge and on the case without inciting panic. and that is the difficulty for the white house. i find one of the ironies is that president obama was on this early way back in early august there was a summit of african leaders and talked about it then and at the u.n. general assembly yet somehow it got away from them in the last couple of weeks >> schieffer: it was interesting that somebody in the white house leaked to "the new york times"

that the president was seething about this they found it necessary. >> well, there is a long history, i think, of the president being angry not just this president but any president that is the story that you see when you are worried that the narrative is getting away from you. and i think they are very eager right before that midterm election and let's be honest, the political timing here is affecting what you are seeing in terms of washington's response so the white house is very eager to make sure it does not play into an existing narrative around government competence and our lack of faith in government institutions. it might be >> schieffer: jeffrey, beyond the optics, is what the white house doing now are they getting a handle on all this? you saw the republicans are all in a dither because the man they picked as the so-called czar turns out not to be a person with a health background. >> well, that is true. but it's important to remember that ron klain's job is not to

be the nation's doctor. his job is to be the expert implementer and in fairness, that is a very important role when you have a sprawling infrastructure that is devoted to dealing with this very, very tricky disease. his job isn't to control the virus. his job is to deploy the people who can then control the virus. and when we are dealing with a virus we are dealing with a mindless clump of nothing that knows how to do one thing: replicate itself and spread. talk about asymmetrical warfare you need to deploy as many people as possible to attack it. >> schieffer: i want to ask you about the situation with the surgeon general. it's been a year since the president nominated someone to be the surgeon general. that post is now being filled by an acting surgeon general. tell me what this is all about. because i know this is a story

that has about nine sides to it here. >> this is the other epidemic in washington. the he inability to get anything done. this particular example had to do with gun control and statements that the nominee made about gun control. so it's gotten wrapped up in that issue which seems unrelated. it's on one of a long list of appointments that have not been approved by a senate that does not work well. if you are looking for congress to do something about any crisis you are probably looking in the wrong place right now. >> the only thing we can say is the new cbs poll has congress' rating around 9%. the consequences of inaction on the one hand seem to be toxic approval and on the other hand we are a few weeks away from an election which the vast majority of members will be reelected. it feeds into the feeling there is a disconnect >> schieffer: i sort of referred to this earlier in the broadcast but the fact is this new poll

has very dismal findings here. i mean if people don't seem to have much confidence in any institution anymore. and i think this probably goes beyond government. but just a couple of things. they still like the f.b.i.. 51% of the people think the f.b.i. they have a favorable rating. the central intelligence agency, below 50%. department of homeland security, environmental protection agency, they are down to a cool 39% in favorable. secret service down to 38%. centers for disease control has fallen below the secret service in the confidence that people have. they have 37% and same with the food and drug administration. the irs we should be it seems to me the one agency that we all have confidence in, only 31%

have a favorable rating there. and of course we have the veterans administration we know about all that. jeffrey, is -- i think this is a very serious problem and more serious than the ebola crisis? >> well, i think it is. but i think it also there is a certain luxury to condemn the institutions that basically have been functioning for a long, long time. look we have 9200 infections in africa. we have 4555 deaths and five cases in the u.s. and most of which have been handled well. we are in a position as a highly developed western country have the luxury of criticizing our institutions. and people keep holding the apollo program as the gold standard why can't the fight against the ebola be the apollo program. we lost three people in a launch

pad fire. and it's only in retrospect that we say this was the perfect swiss watch functioning organization. when the long history of the ebola crisis is written we will look back and say yeah there were stutter steps and trying to find our way in a murky situation but we got it under control and made this work. i think we have to stop finger pointing and blame laying when we are in the middle of a criessies >> schieffer: what disturbs me and what bothers me is that these institutions so many of them people lost confidence. you used to the things you used to accept, and took for granted you are now surprised. when it works out right. >> i don't know if we are living in an age of skepticism or cynicism and i it's not just government. your polls show it's other institutions in society. it's churches. it's the police. and the supreme court which used to be above what the dirtier

politicians were doing it's plummeted as well. and you have to admit that the series of government missteps starting with hurricane katrina but you got a va scandal, irs scandal and the botched roll out of the healthcare website and now white house intruders jumping over the fence. these are all feeding what was going to be there which is a lot of skepticism that is morphing into cynicism >> schieffer: do you think it has to do with social media and bombarded with all the information 24 hours nonstop? >> i think it's human nature which is to construct a narrative and we have more data points to plug into that. we hear about things we might not have heard about. and political process. look how quickly ebola has instantly morphed into a political issue in our house and senate campaigns you can almost chart a relationship between the incumbent and the more quickly

he or she has been to endorse a travel ban on flights from west africa and purely political grandstanding if you listen to the experts. and you know that undermines confidence as well that politics is really much more theatrical at a time when it's clear congress is is three-point shot contributing anything meaningful in a legislative or oversight sense to combating this ebola epidemic >> schieffer: thank you all very much to help us put it into some context. enjoyed talking with all of you. i will be back in a moment with a report on that other story: iraq.

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>> schieffer: we are now turning to the other story of the week. we are entering week 11 of the u.s.-led campaign against isis in iraq and the second month of air strikes in syria. holly williams filed this report from northern iraq. >> it's now clear that u.s.-led air strikes in iraq and syria have had a bigger impact in some

areas than in others. 18% of iraq's province is under the control of isis militants and they have seen another iraqi military base and infiltrated baghdad into a string of car bombs. but the u.s. coordinated air strikes with local kurdish fighters. and we've seen firsthand how those strikes helped them push isis out of towns and villages. now, the u.s. central command insists its primary focus is restoring security in iraq. but over the last week, there has been just over 20 air strikes here in iraq while around the syrian town of kobani, isis militants have been hit by 70 strikes. the most intense barrage since the air campaign began. pentagon officials say an influx of isis fighters into that area

created a target of opportunity. but the battle for the town of kobani which lies in a key strategic position on syria's border with turkey has also become a very public test of whether u.s.-led air strikes can effectively halt the advance of isis militants. >> schieffer: that is holly williams in northern iraq. and we want to bring in michael o'hanlon of the brookings institution to give us an analysis on this. you know, there is a lot going on right now over there and it would have gotten more attention, i think, but we had this ebola situation going on. and it's just almost gone unremarked. you heard what holly said. she thinks the air strikes are helping in someplaces and not so much in other places. i have been talking to people who deal with this, this week and they are three-point shot optimistic about what is happening there, what is your

assessment? >> in some ways it's just as well that we not obsess because the near terminous cannot be good. the bottom line strategy in iraq and that is the easier of the two places is to help the iraqi army rebuild now the beginnings of this new government of unity that can hopefully bring the sunnis and the kurds and the shi'a together and that will be hard. they have to help the iraquis rebuild their army. half melted away in the spring not by lack of weapons but will. they did not want to fight are not former prime minister. and we want to help them build a new national guard. so you can recruit and train people to fight for their hometown. makes a lot of sense but the point is it's being done from scratch there is no iraqi national guard. the units have to be built up before we can go on the counter offense against isil so it will take time. >> schieffer: in the short-term

what if the isis forces decide to try to attack that airport just outside baghdad? this is the only way out of the country for what, a couple thousand americans who are inside our embassy in baghdad. as the situation stands now, could we put down that attack? could they? >> well, you know, first of all, i think we have other ways to get out of the country. you can helicopter to airfields in the south. i would not be worried about that but you are right, because iraq's economy which is suffering from the low oil prices is in serious trouble and the sense of quasi normalcy which iraq does not have but it's being further eroded by this. here is the thick with the baghdad attacks... isis group cannot take baghdad. baghdad is shi'a. the shi'a-led army units will be strong enough -- >> schieffer: and this is one place where they would fight?

>> right. but they would use the shi'a militias to do it. and that makes it harder for that government of national unity to bring people together. so that is what i'm worried about. not baghdad falling but the sectarianism getting worse. >> schieffer: all right. michael o'hanlon good to have you and thank you because this is a story we cannot let it go away no matter how big other stories come. we will be back in just a minute.

>> schieffer: well, that is it for us today. we hope you will tune in tomorrow morning to cbs this morning. they will have the latest on the ebola crisis. thank you for watching "face the nation." [♪] captioning made possible by johnson & johnson, where quality products for the american family have been a tradition for generations captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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