>> o'donnell: today on "face the nation." officer darren wilson resigns after the grand jury clears the white police officer in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager as protests continue in ferguson. we'll talk to the attorney for michael brown, benjamin crump. violence and confrontation swept across the country we'll talk about the impact on race relations in america. town the congressional to-do list. can anything get done in washington. talk to two incoming senators, thom tillis of north carolina and democrat gary peters of michigan. and the first major interview with the man the pope picked to lead catholic church in chicago, archbishop blase cupich.

our panel of analysts, 60 years of news because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning again we start today with the continued unrest in ferguson, missouri. police officer darren wilson was cleared of wrongdoing after fatally shooting 18-year-old michael brown. since the grand jury decision monday, protests in ferguson turned violent and there have been 126 arrests in estimated 60 buildings were looted, vandalized or burnt down. late yesterday officer wilson resigned from the ferguson police department as he wrote, it was my hope to continue in police work but the safety of other police officers and the community are of paramount importance to me. it is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal. reaction this for what is next for the brown family we're joined by their attorney, benjamin crump. what do you think officer wilson resignation will do, if anything to, heal the community?

>> well, norah, this is not unexpected news, i think for the community or family of michael brown, junior. we always felt officer wilson would do what is in his best interest both personally and professionally. we think he would not be very effective for the ferguson police department nor ferguson community if he had continued to be a police officer in that community. so we think that the community all expected this. >> o'donnell: will it change at all your decision to move forward with additional legal action? >> certainly not. the family greatly wanted to have the killer of their unarmed son held accountable. they will look at every legal avenue, they are still troubled by the things that happened in the grand jury proceeding as well as officer darren wilson

statements when he said that his conscious was clear that he would do the same thing over again. that suggests very cold, if one of those things where you would hope that even if a police officer felt they had to use lethal force that they would have some consideration. i don't think officer wilson had any consideration for his children and wonder if he had a conscience that's troubling to them. we want police officers that do have a conscience in our community note police officers that are cold as ice and see our children at demons and criminals. >> o'donnell: what significant action will you pursue on behalf of michael brown and his family? >> norah, the family will pursue all the legal avenues, potential civil wrongful death lawsuit as

well as look at pushing forward with legislation for michael brown law working with the national bar association, naacp and others to have it where it is required that every police officer and every american city is required to have video body cameras so it will be transparent we won't see this play out over and over whether it's new york or louisiana or texas, to see young people, especially young black and brown boys being killed at the hands of the people to protect and serve them and never held accountable due to this process, this grand jury process that needs to be indicted. it's broken. it continues to yield same results over and over again where they kill our children and never held accountable. we have to change that entire process to have special prosecutor appointed and justice scalia spoke to that and the

supreme court decision what we saw happen with justice scalia and supreme court said the function of the grand jury was. >> o'donnell: mr. crump it was extraordinary to see the grand jury in action and what happened afterwards. release of thousands of pages of documents and evidence from that grand jury, if you look at the front pages of the "new york times" today and the "washington post" today, they did analysis of all those thousands of pages of documents and they put together questions about whether michael brown was charging the officer or whether he was giving up and surrendering. have you seen these documents. what does the family think happened on august 9 this? >> they think the child was running from the police and they thought that he was giving up. when they look at released

documents, shows you just how partial this prosecutor's office was. look at the way they question the people who came out and said that michael brown -- it was the police officers fault compared to the people who supported the police officer and especially the shooter, darren wilson. they never cross examined him. this killer of unarmed person has never been cross examined and it is so unbelievable to all lawyers you talk to that you wouldn't even ask him one tough question. said that this transcript first year law student would have done tougher cross examination to the killer of unarmed kid in broad daylight. to mistrust that many in the african american communities all across america have with this

process and the local law enforcement. >> o'donnell: i'm no lawyer but i've heard the phrase, the grand jury can indict a ham sandwich we looked at the numbers, numbers compiled by the bureau of justice statistics show in 2010 prosecutors tried 162,000 federal cases and grand juries declined to return indictment just 11 of them. i know how you feel that this process was broken. in this particular case, would you have preferred a trial and what if he had been acquitted? what if officer wilson bad acquitted? >> people can accept that nor, norah, when you have set as the foundation for the american justice system, trial by jury, where it's all transparent, all the evidence and witnesses are cross examined and vetted. people think that is fair. people think that is impartial.

when you have this secret grand jury proceeding where there is only one lawyer in the room and that lawyer is local prosecutor who has a same bee i don't know i can relationship with the local police department and local police officer has no relationship, no regard for this young person of color then you see the results all the time coming out with swept under the rug and we're told to just go on and get over it. where we can't continue get over it these are our children that are being killed. the statistics are alarming. young black man between ages of 15-19 said to be likely to be killed by 21% more than anybody else. they are stopped three times by police more than anybody else. we have to get police officers who are not color blind like the shooter of michael brown but police officers who care about trying to have a relationship with the community not send the

citizens of low income communities or minority communities as demons, as criminals. that citizens that we all have to be together that we're all in the same boat and we have vested interest. unless we that have this dialogue we're going to continue to see this happen over and over again and michael brown and thousand of people of colors crying say we have too fix this system. >> o'donnell: benjamin crump, good to see you. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, norah. >> today we should note that 120 miles seven day march of protesters continues from the site from michael brown was shot on canfield avenue to missouri governor's mansion in jefferson city. more on ferguson state of race relations here in the united states we're joined by james peterson from lehigh university he is here in studio and by

ta-nehisi coates of the atlantic joins us from new york. let me ask you, the president of the naacp was leading this march has compared it to the 1965 selma to montgomery march. will there be change? >> i think ultimately we have to remain hopeful about having some change around some of the things that mr. crump was talking about. maybe this body camera law, maybe some progress, revising, rethinking the grand jury process might be useful around these kind of cases. but i don't want to compare what's going on now to the civil rights movement. the civil rights movement was its own awesome history and impact on american society. sometimes we get so caught up in what the movement was that it obscures our capacity to understand the work that we have to do now. what is going on now across this nation, young people, people from all different backgrounds who are organizing peacefully and protesting peacefully around these particular issues there

has to be certain set of outcomes of what is happening now. we can't get too confused and confounded by what is happening in the past. we have to be forward thinking. >> ta-nehisi coates, we have the first black president, first attorney general, heard president obama decision saying we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury's to make. do you agree with that? >> well, we have no choice but to accept it was the grand jury's to make. we live in society where there is a process, being law-abiding people we have to follow it. going back to earlier question of whether we can expect change. i have to say i'm a little skeptical of that. i think police departments in this country represent a larger relationship between american society and black communities. so the question to me is, what is ferguson, town of manage son, black population of ferguson what is their relationship with the community around it. you get the conversation point of which there is lethal confrontation between michael

brown and officer wilson. why was officer wilson stopping michael brown for walking down the street. we have studies amount of policing in ferguson how that relates to how -- >> o'donnell: my understanding -- he had just received over the radio the report that there had been a robbery and there was description of a suspect and that when michael brown walked by he fit that description and that's why he stopped him on that particular case. >> some of that is unclear. >> one of the things walking in the middle of the street he hadn't put that together yet. >> well it's confusing because officer wilson and grand jury says he connects those two things. chief police of ferguson did not connect those two things. this is why you have to have a transparent trial by jury. i agree with ta-nehisi coates that we can't be too hopeful about change because of the structural thing in place. the long hard work that has to happen which he's talking about in terms of police stops and

think of racial bias. >> o'donnell: i know ferguson is 67% black. the police force is 53 officers only three of them are black. why? i went looked across the country. this is so common in fact in three-quarters of u.s. cities there are higher percentage of white officers than of course in the population. is this fundamental to what is at stake in terms of distrust of the communities and police officers? >> yes. there's a part of it that diversify the police department i don't think will automatically. there is district right outside of washington, d.c. where you guys are, prince georges county one of the most brutal police departments in the country, majority of black town, majority black affluent population there. black cops can be brutal, too. i don't think we should get blinded to that. it's a step forward but not a cure all.

>> again we're talking about racial bias here. unfortunately it affects everyone, the consequences of it are oftentimes awful. that's why we have, again, long haul here. there has to be way which we can train officers of the law to think less about using lethal force, to understand how bias shapes. how they're going to interact and train them as such without that overhaul we're not going to see the change that needs to hatch out of this particular situation. >> o'donnell: something you wrote this week, clearly cannot be said that violence and nonviolence are tools that violence like nonviolence sometimes works. taken together property damage and looting has been the most effective tools of social progress for white people in america. what did you mean by that? >> just american history. you can take from a broader perspective, people have this idea that the american

revolution like tea party was not -- very, very violent. enslavement which is at the roots of this country, black population of this country was enslaved longer than it's been free. that is basis of who we are. from native americans, that is who we are. talk about all the things that we love about america, democracy, freedom, i don't think that we should lose sight of the foundation of which those things were built. they were not built -- that is not to say that looting is right, that looting is correct. but i think that when the government, which often acts violently towards african americans, about -- we have right to be skeptical of that. >> o'donnell: i want to end on this photo the 12-year-old, davonta hart at ferguson protest rally in portland, oregon. you can see this officer,

sergeant who is white hugging this child. it has been shared more than 150,000 times on facebook. what does that say to you in that photo and how it's been shared so many times on facebook? >> i think the photo shows us that people are very hopeful and maybe a little bit naive about a better relationship between the african american community and police forces that are charged with protecting them. unfortunately the photo op not what is going to get it done. it's going to take a long hard work of understand can how racial bias informs certain kinds of decisions, the piece that you were talking about law enforcement overall in grand jury, talk about structural changes. the photo is beautiful. it reflects some home about certain situations but we don't need to be concerned about hope as nitty-gritty getting down to the work of changing these systems. >> o'donnell: dr. james peterson, ta-nehisi coates, good to have both of you here. thank you. >> thank you. >> o'donnell: we'll be back in a minute.

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>> o'donnell: we're back to talk politics and busy agenda facing the new republican controlled congress. two incoming senators elect, thom tillis of north carolina is with me here in studio. democrat gary peters of michigan joins us from detroit. first of all congratulations to both of you on your wins thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> o'donnell: senator tillis, i was there in north carolina with you, you won what was called the most expensive senate race in the country, more than $100 million. what do you think people of your state got for that? >> i think what they got is a chance to see different leadership try to get things done in washington. to get washington functioning again. working across the aisle, getting the economy back on track, worried about our state and security. i think the american people did not give republicans a mandate they gave us a chance to lead,

i'm glad to be part of that. >> o'donnell: they didn't give you mandate you've got to show compromise, what issue can you work with democrats on? >> i think there's any number of things. in fact senator peters, he's got a passion around michigan like i have a passion around north carolina, we've seen a lot of manufacturing jobs go overseas. we've seen our economies not quite get back on track in terms of job creation. i think there is a number of opportunities for republicans and democrats to work together. >> o'donnell: senator peters are you hopeful you can compromise with republicans? >> well, i think we have to. certainly was the clear message that we got from this last election about people wanting to see washington work. having people come together and find that middle ground to deal with the very tough problems that we're facing as a country. i certainly am encouraged and senator tillis talking 'brought manufacturing something that is very important in the state of michigan as it is north carolina. i'm sure that we can find ways to make sure we're getting people back to work really creating the good paying middle

class jobs which are so essential. right now a middle class that feels squeezed falling behind. we have to deal with it in washington. only way we're going to deal with it if we come together find common ground. >> o'donnell: there are issues that you say you want to find common ground. congress will start with the confer nation battle. president has two open posts in his cabinet, not only for the attorney general but also for defense secretary. do you think there will be confirmation battle over president obama's new choice for those positions? >> the president puts forth someone that will work for both sides. a great opportunity out of the gate for the president to identify consensus nominees that we can all get around and support. those are very important jobs. they need to be filled. but they need to be filled with someone who can take in to account both sides of the equation. both ends of pennsylvania avenue. >> o'donnell: senator-elect peters, as it appears this week that defense secretary hagel was

pretty much fired from the defense department, are you concerned about how pentagon is being led and the fight against isis? >> well, certainly isis is a significant threat that we have to deal with, we've got to make sure that we have leadership at the department of defense that is focused on that, that the white house can work with and so i look forward in the confirmation process to find that right secretary who is going to be focused on that issue, also concerned about nuclearal bigs of iran becoming very dangerous world that we've got to have defense department that is focused on these new threats and understand the significance of it. that's why i think this confirmation process is going to be so important because we have to stand together, congress and president, this country is stronger when we are all united as one and certainly department of defense has to have the ability to work with everybody in the unified fashion. >> o'donnell: to be specific do you think, i'll start with you senator tillis, the president needs a new use of force authorization in order to

fight isis? >> i think it would probably be wise that you move forward again. the president and the congress need to find opportunity to show some way of coming together and i think that would be a show of good faith from the president and i think it would give congress more confidence they're part of the process. >> you would support one? >> yes. >> o'donnell: senator-elect peters would you support new authorization of force against isis? >> i think it's essential that congress come to the fable. we have not had classified briefing for quite some time now. i look forward to get back to washington to have these needs to be intimately involved in these decisions. certainly constitutional requirement and i think it is absolutely essential that we come together to show strength in the world community. we are stronger as acron tree when the president and congress are united i believe that we have to be a key player in that process. >> o'donnell: the issue of i am breaks because the executive action on immigration senator-elect tillis your party

has opposed the president's actions. where then do you expect congress to act? do you expect now republican-led senate will act and finally act on issue that can work together with the senate? >> i'm afraid that the president's unilateral action is going to set us back. i believe what we should do first and foremost is seal the border. the republicans and democrats have both failed on this issue for february decades one of the reasons why, i don't think we've stabilized the problem by taking credible steps to seal the border. then let's discuss what we do with the population who is illegally present. we can complicate, end up debate that could be avoided. >> o'donnell: senator-elect peters, you are a member of the house, difficulty getting some agreement with the senate on issue of immigration. >> it is a source of constant frustration to me because we do have bipartisan agreement. i support the senate immigration reform bill which passed on a bipartisan basis.

we have organizations like united states chamber of commerce that support immigration reform bill. 17 republicans including folks that mr. rubio, mr. mccain in states that are obviously intimately involved in the immigration issue we have a comprehensive approach. we have approach that invests nearly $40 billion in border protection, where you got parties to come together. the congress needs to act. instead of wringing our hands about the presidential action, congress needs to pass a bill. we have a bill that's been on the table for a year and half in the house. i believe that if the speaker would put it on the floor it would actually pass. we would deal with this issue in a comprehensive way. we need to move forward. if my republican friends want to work in bipartisan way in finding common ground, we're already almost there with comprehensive immigration reform, all we have to do is pass it know we'll all be watching. senator effect hill 'tis and peters good to have you here. we'll be right back.

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>> o'donnell: welcome back to "face the nation" we turn now to our political panel, john heilemenn from bloomberg news, michael cruelly the senior foreign affairs correspondent for politico and cbs news political director john dickerson is here. we had interesting week this past week in terms of president obama firing his defense secretary, chuck hagel as he submitted his resignation. john, let's start with that issue do you think we'll see the president name a new choice to be defense secretary shortly? >> i talked to somebody who is involved in this process right now, he said it could happen within next several days. the names we've heard are jay johnson head of the homeland security, ashton carter who is deputy secretary of defense.

what is interesting about this, criteria will be somebody who has power within the building, can work within the pentagon also is trusted by the president. the position of secretary of defense, the fourth this president has had is such fascinating to look at extent to which president wants to get his hands involved on detail level but then also no president can be in charge and control of everything. first meeting at the pentagon president said to then secretary of state bob gates, i think of myself as parallel parking. in other words i'm coming in there, two wars going on, host of hold over policies from the previous administration, i just want the fit myself in between what is going on. now you've had three secretarys of defense all leave saying they felt micro managed like the white house was controlling everything. new person who comes in as to figure out whether they're go to have autonomy or seen just as puppet of the president. >> o'donnell: michael, is this sort of bellyaching by people who don't like the

process that goes on or is the process really dysfunctional? >> well, as i think some of both. what you see is gradual centralization of foreign policy not just national security military, but foreign policy in this white house. to degree that people say is unprecedented where few people in the white house, national school and advisor susan rice and white house chief of staff who has foreign policy background really have their hands on the controls here in way that drives people in the outer orbit a little bit crazy. but this is true since the beginning of this presidency. people have the same gripes about, for instance, rice's predecessor, i think it's exacerbated as one of my sources told me in my reporting, whenever the pentagon is involved in military they want total autonomy and any white house role drives them crazy. more airstrikes we're doing, that kind of complaining you're going to hear. >> o'donnell: john, associated press had wonderful

story about micro management by white house of the pentagon saying when bob gates went over to afghanistan, went to special operations command he saw there was phone line that went directly back to the white house. bypassing the chain of command he ripped the phone line out he said white house wants to talk to anybody they can go through me first. is this about personality or is this really affecting policy? like real policy some have charged. >> first of all everything mike said is true. this is -- not just foreign policy but general white house. this is unusually close team around the president. we've observed this over the course of the last years. he likes to have small number of advisors, likes to have people he trusts close to him. anyone who is outside that inner circle has a hard time getting things done. that is the case for all three of the secretaries of defense all of whom were people of great resumes, great stature, but bob gates, leon panetta all had hard time making their way in to the inner circle having his trust. there is also this macro

picture, really managing the pentagon maybe not the most monstrous challenge for anybody in the cabinet right now when foreign policy and national security is going so strikingly awry, i think that the greatest defense secretary ever would have had hard time satisfying all the constituencies in the white house and on the world stage. >> o'donnell: if ashton carter is named to be defense secretary we be someone who works closely with the white house in terms of their micro managing? is he going to want more you a ton me what is the calculus. >> they all want autonomy because they won't be able to work within the institution of the pentagon unless they tar car. >> o'donnell: he's been number two at the pentagon. >> also in charge of weapons, he knows the budget. budgets are a big part of this both who gets what they want in the building but what administration wants to do. the less sexy part of this but important part of it. one part about micro managing

here is all presidents want to micro manage because they get blamed in the end. and so when something happens and well, the president was asleep at the switch, they have to be able to say, if i'm going to get blame for being asleep at the switch i better be at the switch. you can't be at all switches because that diminishes the purpose. >> o'donnell: what is wrong with having with the president saying i want it done this way, policy being very clear. how is it affecting the policy against isis? >> i had a long conversation with senior very smart pentagon official couple days ago who said you guys in the press are obsessed with this micro managing, it's annoying, chews up huge amounts of staff time. at the end of the day show me the connection from a to b that street screwing up our policy. now that said, the policy needs more clarity right now. i think there's consensus even within that inner circle of the president that we're not exactly sure how our strategy to defeat isis intersects with civil war,

are we going to defend these rebel forces to take on syrian regime if assad starts dropping barrels. will it authorize strikes against syrian forces. that is all not figured out yet. it's not clear that that is because they're having too many meetings and wants to call 100 meetings on every question. but that would be the problem. no one made that connection yet. >> one of the things that is frustrating that people in the white house particularly chief of staff is that over the last year in particular, there have been series of leaks out of the pentagon. more stories appear in the "new york times" and other places, this is time-honored business. the people in the pentagon, one of the ways they do that by making sure stories get planted in the press that limit the president's ability to maneuver on these issues. >> o'donnell: i remember this on the troop draw down in afghanistan how many forces to leave in afghanistan. >> on the isis things, syria where stories have come out at pivotal moments that clearly

come from within the military that have been set the framework who is within the realm of possible. one of the thing they felt very strongly that chuck hagel did not do great job from their point of view at containing that. fact that did he not have the kind of institutional knowledge of the pentagon was huge hinderance. in order to tame the pentagon which is part of the of what the defense sect you need to know the building, ashton carter may know it better. >> definitely knows it better. >> another important thing is this person has to gets confirmed ashton carter when he left the pentagon, john mccain incoming chairman of the armed services said glowing things that is helpful for administration try to get somebody through. >> o'donnell: let's turn to some of the challenges that president obama is facing with the final two years in office. first of course ferguson, john, you were down there. should the president go to ferguson, do you think he'll go

there? >> yes, i think he should go. i don't know if he will go i'm surprised he hasn't gone already. one of the cases where the president has -- felt imposed tight rope on matter of race. pretty much through the entire six years. he's no longer facing re-election she be freed from r where he can go -- i think what the president has been has been in the relatively right place. but the power involved in going there addressing what are really complex and volatile set of issues that he's uniquely positioned to speak to. powers of him doing that in the community beyond the value to the community itself. i think it would have great value to soothe some of what has gone there in terms of the issue and country, this is not just ferguson, it extends between african americans and police departments he could make a powerful careful case in way no one else could would be most

powerfully done from there. >> the challenge as you say for the president to get -- make that case to be in position to speak where he's not seen as advocate for one of the two sides. either law enforcement or the protesters. so they are trying to balance the problem he had, the very night, speaking in measured, deliberate about systemic issues that were happening long before the confrontation that led to this. how can you have that while they are still smoldering going on. on the other hand if you don't speak to the moment then it dissipates you miss the moment. that always been challenge for this president. on this issue of race, of course, has particular set of challenges. but there's always been the question with this white house and this president, when do you speak to the moment and when you let fact come in. because one of the great challenges in all public discourse right now is too much heated fast talk that bends everything out of shape. always seen himself as person who can fly above that speak to

the reality not just hot moment. >> people will say that one will remember speech he gave talked after the trayvon martin verdict is high point in this area of his administration. after the verdict he was able to make that speech. now not going to be a verdict in this case doesn't seem like he could not have said anything that strong before there was ruling by this grand jury. now opportunity to do that. >> i get the sense there are people who sort of see the president as having a kind of racial activism side of him that he doesn't unleash also possible that he is figure we know so well on this issue very deliberative. it goes back to the speech on race he gave during 2008 campaign when jeremiah wright was interviewed, he talked about people thee toward black america and white america and both sides have prejudices that he can understand. you get the sense that the administration is uncomfortable about the facts. like so many people just don't

feel clear on what happened. almost imagine that compromise if he had to do photo op he clearly believes there are big systemic problems. maybe he goes somewhere that is not ferguson where community policing is working really well there is sort of racial working and talk about larger systemic issues while avoiding the fact of the case and avoiding the violence and looting that we've seen that they are very nervous. >> i believe you meant comity. >> o'donnell: back in a moment with pope frances first appoint american archbishop.

>> o'donnell: finally sewed some are asking if he's america's pope francis. the newly appointed archbishop of chicago blase cupich is shun knowledge the mansion occupied by his predecessors and echoing the pope's call to care for the poor. i spoke with the pope's first american appointed archbishop earlier this week about how he plans to bring the pope's vision to chicago. >> i'm going to do what i've tried to do the 16 years that i've been a bishop of diocese. that is to get to know people. i think one of the things that the holy father is appreciated for by people is that he is speaking in a way that really resonates with their aspirations and concerns. what i find to be very interesting in the francis

affect as they call it. people do have sense that the church is listening to them also that he is speaking to their deepest desires. if i can in some way emulate that example then i think that i'm probably on the right track. >> o'donnell: what do you mean by that, what to you is the francis affect? >> i think that people today find that the holy father is looking at people, addressing people in a way that shows deep respect. but also realizes that the world, our communities are deeply divided. he is trying to make sure that we come together and not leave anybody behind. and i think that is nothing that i want to continue to do in my ministry. >> o'donnell: many people have watched pope francis say that he emphasizes the pastoral approach. pope benedict more emphasized orthodoxys there a change in terms of emphasis in the

catholic church? >> i explained it by nice phrase that i heard, that is that john paul ii told us what we should do. benedict told us why we should do it. and pope francis is saying, do it. >> o'donnell: so what specifically does that mean "do it"? >> i think a lot of the things that pope francis is talking about in terms of economic policy have their seeds in many of the writings of john paul ii as well as benedict. he is making it more precise i think because of his own experience in argentina being very close to the poor on day-to-day basis. i think that gives him a different metric, a different way of what the teachings of the church are in real terms. he is putting emphasis on real life people and bringing yet ideas to bear upon the real life situations of folks. >> o'donnell: you in your own background appear to have emphasized conversation other

confrontation. you haven't been particularly confrontational with politicians who disagree with you on issues like abortion, for instance. do you think the eucharist has become too politicized? >> i that i is important always to begin with an attitude of dialogue. it's important to listen to people and it's very hard to have dialogue because in order for someone to tell you why they think you are wrong, you have to sit with patience. cannot be the place where those discussions are fought but rather we have to look at how we're going to deal with the tough issues of the day in constructive way and as adults who respect each other. >> o'donnell: when you say we cannot politicize the communion you would give communion to politicians, for instance, who support abortion rights. >> i would not use the eucharist

or as they call it the communion rail as place to have those discussions or way in which people would be either excluded from the life of the church. the uke crist is an opportunity of grace and also time of forgiveness of sins. so my hope would be that that grace would be instrumental in bringing people to the truth. >> o'donnell: what do you think of president obama's immigration proposals. >> the bishops of the united states we're very much in favor of action being taken to protect people who need to come out of the shadows. it's been too long of a time for people to wait for comprehensive immigration reform. and so we see this as an important first step hopeful three jumpstart what's happening. my concern would be that we would have a policy and procedure that would have confidentiality provision because if people come out of the shadows and sign up and give

their names and information they want to make sure that that is going to be protected in the future should the executive order change by another administration. i think it's very important that this be done very carefully but we applaud it as good first step. more needs to be done. we encourage the president and members of congress to get this work done. >> o'donnell: you said the work of comprehensive immigration reform is not important because it is on my agenda but because it is on god's. what does that mean, god wants immigration reform? >> it means that the aspiration, is that people have for better life for their children in which they are reaching out in hope as many people who have come to this country have. those aspirations reof were placed in their heart by god. we have to attend to that. this is not something that they're wanting on their own but god has always called us to a better life. has always called us to experiencing how we can provide

for our families in a better way. i think that being grandson of immigrants i feel that very deeply. >> o'donnell: name-sex marriage now legal in 35 states and more battles coming up. what should the church say about same-sex marriage? does it need to change at all? >> i think in washington state where i was bishop for last four years there was a referendum on this very issue and i spoke very clearly about this. i said first of all that we cannot use this moment of public debate to say anything or do anything that would provoke violence against gay and lesbian people. we have to make sure that we're not part of that and we would condemn that. at the same time it's not just about gay marriage it's about whether or not we're going to have statutes in our states that uphold and protect amy who take the risk of bringing children in to the world.

people who as mothers and fathers coming together in their love, continue the human race. >> o'donnell: do you think gay parents can good parents? >> i think people who are not only gay but many single people are good parents i don't think that's the issue. i think the real issue is, should we have -- should we continue to have legislation that supports, protects and up holds those people who take the risk of actually bringing children in to the world and preserving the human race. >> o'donnell: i understand the church's teaching, you do think there should be legislation to protect the parents who are bringing children in to the world and caring for them that are in same-sex relationships? >> no. i'm saying that the people who bring children in to the world are man and woman in their own love that bring children in the world. i do know that there are gay couples, there are others,

grandparents, single people who adopt children, who maybe even have children not from the act of love, but to care for children in that way. yes, i think that there has to be way in which we do support them. but i do think there is something unique about man and woman coming together and bringing children in to the world preserving the human race and providing that example as a mother and father, male and female within family that also deserves the states support and protection. >> o'donnell: what do you think about what pope trances is doing in terms of tackling the issue of sexual abuse in the catholic church? >> i think that he's continuing the work that was begun earlier by his predecessors especially by pope benedict. he does see that it is a human problem it's not an american problem not an anglo-saxons problem it's a human problem not

just catholic problem, either. i think that protection of children is very important. >> o'donnell: pope france was the first pope to enact commission led by cardinal o'malley to actually look at this issue and propose reform. >> yes. i applaud him for that. i think that it's a great step forward and particularly the people that are on that commission who have many times criticized the church for the way that it failed to respond. and i think that holy father made singular contribution forward, also has to be seen within the wide spectrum of the work that was done by his predecessors to get us to this point. >> there are many tough issues facing this country right now, there are deep racial divisions, terrorism and war raging overseas, sluggish economy in some parts of the world, do you have a message for people on this thanksgiving?

>> i think that message i would have is first of all, be thankful for the gift, is that god has given them, especially their families. to allow the loved ones that they have surround them at this time to remind them that all of us belong to a larger family. >> o'donnell: what about what is happening in ferguson. clearly there is still a lot of anger and a lot of distrust in ferguson and st. louis. >> yes. it's a tragedy all the way around. for the family of michael brown and i could hear the heartache in the voice of his father and family members who called for peace and tranquility. they want to respect this young man and realize that violence will only disrespect him. they are suffering on all sides here. we need to do a better job not just in terms of justice to make sure that those who are involved

in law enforcement conduct themselves in a proper way but also that the deep, serious social problems that provide a context of unrest whenever tragedies like this happen. >> o'donnell: archbishop blase cupich, thank you for your time, happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving to you and all your viewers, good to be with you.

>> o'donnell: that's all the timely have for today i'll see you tomorrow on "cbs this morning" bob schieffer will be back next week right here on "face the nation." but do you really? [ female announcer ] neutrogena® makeup remover erases 99% of your most stubborn makeup with one towelette. can your makeup remover do that? [ female announcer ] neutrogena® makeup remover.

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