>> schieffer: today on "face the nation." fall out from the senate report on the cia and torture and the story that won't go away. outrage over recent deaths of black men at the hands of police. across the country tens of thousands took to the streets yesterday with protests deaths of eric garner, michael brown and others. we'll hear from one of the organizers national urban league president marc morial. but we'll begin with scathing torture report released by senate democrats and startling admission of cia director. >> in limited number of cases agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent and rightly should be repudiated by all.

>> schieffer: we'll hear from all sides including senator john mccain who was tortured while prisoner in vietnam. republican senator saxby chambliss says endangers american lives, independent senator angus king who supports its release and house intelligence committee mike rogers on the report's long term impact. and as always, analysis from an all-star panel. 60 years of news because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning, reading the cia report and its details of waterboarding and even more ghastly practices was not for the timid or feint of heart. and republican senator john mcdatabase who was a prisoner of war for five and half years in vietnam brings a unique perspective also author of new book "13 soldiers" personal history of americans at war. senator, welcome to the

broadcast. let me just begin by asking you the question that troubles me the most about this, highway is it that reasonable people so many reasonable people could come to such opposite conclusions about this report and what it brought to light. what do you make of that? >> i make of it a whole range of motives from people who were so understandably alarmed and angered by the attacks of 9/11 that their first motivation is do whatever is necessary to make sure there's never again a repetition and some revenge there obviously all of us felt that. ranging to now frankly some rewriting of history because there were violations of the geneva convention for the treatment of prisoners, there were violation of the convention against torture which ronald

reagan was primary signatory of. i think in retrospect some of these practices fly in the face of everything that ha america values and stands for. >> schieffer: as far as i know you are the only republican who thought it was a good thing to make this report public? >> frankly i also had some mixed emotions about it. but the reason why i think came down and said that we should is because that's what america is all about. we do things wrong, we make mistakes. we review those and we vow never to do them again. frankly this idea that somehow this is going to make the -- our enemies more likely to attack us, i don't think so. beheading americans right now that part of it i dismiss. but what we need to do is come clean, we move forward and we vow never to do it again. that's what we did after abu

ghraib and that's what we did after times. we are nation that acknowledges our mistakes and we move forward and we're not going to be inhumane. >> schieffer: do you believe the cia misled the congress over what it was doing? >> i don't know that much about it because i was not on intelligence committee in that aspect. but i do know that i had meetings with both vice president of the united states and general haden and extended meetings where there were vigorous discussions. i said these things are torture, in violation of the geneva convention and convention against foretour. later on as you know in 2005 and 2006 we enacted legislation to prohibit what they were arguing for. bob, some of these -- you cannot -- i urge everyone to just read the report. these are the communications within the cia as to what happened. can't claim that tying someone

to the floor and have them freeze to death is not torture. you can't say 18 times someone is waterboarded. by the way, on waterboarding it began with spanish inquisition. it was done during the philippine war. we tried and hung japanese war criminals for waterboarding americans in world war ii. >> schieffer: here is the thing. the vice president, dick cheney says that these things worked that we had to do it and they worked. do you think they worked? >> that is -- first of all i think we established that it was torture that is the big second question. let me tell you general petraeus, there's no man alive that military leader that i respect more than general petraeus, quote, why we are warriors we are also human beings. if you want information from a detainee you become his best friend and that is what worked for us with our special operators as well as our conventional forces in both owe

rook and in afghanistan. i think we should give some weight to general petraeus' view. yesterday or day before whenever mr. brennan spoke, he said, quote, it was unknowable whether they could have gotten the information without using this torture or not. that's a pretty ambiguous kind of statement. then the question is, did we get the actionable material, i think that it shows that in a number of cases that the cia is claim ing that these eits -- that they got the information and there is counter factual argument made by this report that they got the information before they did the enhanced interrogation techniques. it's not about them.

it's about us. it's about us. what we were and what we are and what we should be. that's a nation that does not engage in these kinds of violations of the fundamental basic human rights that we guaranteed when we declared our independence. >> schieffer: before you go i want to ask you about this session of congress it look leek it's going to end the way it started, people threatening shut down the government. you saw ted cruz again take on republican leadership. what is going to happen next year? are we going to see more of the same or do you see any idea that it might get better? >> i know it's going to get better because we are not going to tie up the senate until the last few weeks try to get things done. the reason why we were in the debacle we're in because we refused to pass any of the appropriations bills, most of the authorization bills end up

all jammed up. the reason why i voted against it is a trillion dollar bill with few hours of debate. what we're going to do make up these bills one by one and have votes and amendments, something that we haven't done in the past. >> schieffer: do you think saying it has to get better because it couldn't get worse, it has to get -- >> right. and republicans should know unless we can show the american people that we can govern we're not going to elect republican president in 2016. >> schieffer: john mccain, thanks you so much. always good to see you. turn to senator saxby chambliss he was the top republican on the senate intelligence committee he is retiring and he joins us now from atlanta, georgia. senator, thank you for coming. you said earlier there is no doubt that the practices that the cia used saved lives and weakened al qaeda in your word that was inconproceed vertable. you heard senator mccain and what democrats said, they said

it didn't do any of that. how can people be so opposite in the conclusions? were you looking at the same set of facts that the democrats were? >> obviously we were, bob. of course john mccain is one more great american, he's my dear personal friend i have such great respect for him, he has an awful lot of credibility on this and every other issue he talks about. i do respect that. bob, i've been watching this intel come out of the interrogation program since it was initiated back in 2002. i've seen it on a regular daily basis. i was not briefed in to all of the eits early on, but let's just take one example. he was one of the three, you got to remember there were 789 detainees sent to gitmo. three out of 789 were waterboarded.

there were 766 actionable intelligence reports written from abu zubaydah. common sense and lodge week tell you some of those were -- some of those reports were the result of statements that abu made after he went through the eit program. let me say this most of them -- mows of those reports came after that. once he broke then he was just a treasure trove of information. so that is kind of incontrovertible of those who were there who heard the intel reports come in. the other thing i would say is, with respect to those brave men and women at the cia, we know exactly where we were on the morning of september 11th. abu zubaday two of the individuals subjected to waterboarding were the masterminds of 9/11. they are the ones who told those

9/11 hijackers, take those box cutters, go slit the throats of airline pilots and take over the airliners, fly those airplanes in to buildings, they did it, they killed americans. americans were scared to death. they were frustrated. they were in mourning and scared to death that something else like this might happen again. that's when this program was initiated. it was waterboarding was terminated in 2003 only applied to three individuals but they were the masterminds of this. a treasure trove from all three of them. >> schieffer: let me ask you this question. earlier this year it came to light that the cia had actually hacked in to the computers of investigators on this intelligence committee. now obviously that is wrong, that is seriously wrong and it had to be corrected.

but some are saying that this report came out because it was the committee staffs' way of getting back at that time the cia. do you think there is anything to that? >> no, i don't think so. i think long before we found out about what the cia had done relative to the senate side of the computers they were located at cia facility there was a determination by the leadership on the intel committee and by democratic members that this report needed to be made public. i don't think that. there is a commission that has that issue under investigation right now and i will tell you, if it is determined without question that they did breach the senate side of the computers, that's wrong. i have been very vocal about that and action needs to be taken if that was the case. >> schieffer: let me ask you this question.

if the cia did get credible information from using these methods, as you say they did, should they use these methods in the future if it becomes necessary? >> i think it's pretty obvious that cia back couple of years ago when they acknowledged that some things went wrong, they said some changes are going to be made. while they did -- they carried out this program and used these techniques under what we call color of law, ie department of justice under bush and subsequently under obama, made a determination that there were no crimes committed here, there was nothing prosecutorial, bush administration department of justice even determined that these enhanced interrogation techniques were legal, they were authorized by the department of justice. that's just a scenario under which these individuals carried it these interrogations.

i think changes have been made. there will be additional changes made as you -- as cia goes through review of this. >> schieffer: senator we'll have to leave it there. thank you so much for being with us and giving us your side of it. maine's independent, he supported release of this report along with the democrats. senator, glad to have you. when the cia says these programs worked, you said, what would you expect them to say. is this your way of saying they just misled the committee to justify what they did? >> one of the problems with this whole project was that they asked the people who were conducting the interviews to do their own evaluation, what is somebody going to say, paid $80 million, these are outside consultants managing this interrogation process they said of course it's working. i think there was misleading of the committee and it's detailed in the report. understatement of what was

actually done, over statement of what was achieved and it's pretty clear as john mccain said, read the report. i sat all one week in the secure facility last spring and read the 500 pages, it's pretty -- >> schieffer: misleading congress that's serious, what should be done about it? >> i don't think so looking back and prosecuting all those kind of things is productive. the important thing about this to me, bob, we learned from it. and we decided we're not going to do it again because it's not what america is. this is an exceptional country. but it's not because we're smarter or better looking or have oil deposits or grand mountains, it's because we're based on an ideal going back to the very origin of the country, george washington in 1777 in the middle of the revolutionary war when he was losing that war, when he conveyed british prisoners to his people the order was, treat them with

humanity let them have no reason to complain about copying the brutal example of the british army. >> schieffer: you said people don't think people misleading congress, no action should be taken at this point. i assume you also mean that for people if they did commit these practices that have since been started. do you think it is time as some of your colleagues believe to clean out the cia from top to bottom? >> i do think that -- one of the things shook me about this, because of the misleading of congress how do we conduct our oversight function if we can't fully believe what we're being told. that's how we do oversight, we call witnesses, tell us what is going on. i think that's very serious question. and how do we perform that. i do think, i know john brennan, i respect john brennan, i think he stood up in a big way this week deserves credit for that. on the other hand i think as a general rule it probably would be good idea in the future to

have leaders of the cia come from outside of the cia just as we have civilian always in charge of the pentagon. >> schieffer: do you think john brennan should resign? >> i don't think he should resign. the president has conany dense in him. he stepped up in my mind there's very important thing he said goes to your first question about, does it work. for years we've been hearing it works, we're still hearing it from the apologists this week, vice president cheney said it again this morning. john brennan and cia official position it's unknowable whether it works. and that i think is a big change and really speaks volumes to the effectiveness. >> schieffer: thank you. we'll have to end it there. we'll hear from the chairman of the house intelligence committee, mike rogers, later in the broadcast. we'll talk about the other big story topic of conversation race in america. i have a cold

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bob yesterday civil rights leaders and families and supporters of victims eric garner, michael brown held a national day of protest in washington tens of thousands marched demanding better treatment of minorities at the hands of police, among speakers of eric garner's mother. >> you know our son, they may not be here in body but they are -- >> schieffer: -- and everyone of you. >> you brought them here today. >> schieffer: we turn now to the head of the national urban league, one of the organizers of the march, marc morial he's also the former mayor of new orleans also husband of cbs news correspondent michelle miller he joins us from new york. as a former mayor, what do you

think local governments need to do, what was the purpose of these protests and what do you want to happen now? >> so, we have articulated ten important points around police reform and police accountability. and i think that the changes that need to happen in this nation, this is a moment when these changes are truly needed and necessary, have to be carried out not only in washington by legislative changes, by the justice department or the president, but my mayors, police chiefs and local communities. my experience in new orleans taught me in the '90s when we basically engineered comprehensive remake of the new orleans police department that you can have a safe city and an accountable police department. and the two can go hand in hand. so the changes we seek obviously are a shift away from what i

would call a broken window or stop and frisk approach the police, more of community policing model which focuses on violent crime. but also relationships between police and the communities they serve. this outpouring that you see which is really an american movement of all backgrounds, race and colors and religion was sparked because we've had this seemingly unprecedented number of high profile incidents where unarmed black men have been killed by the police and it seems to not be any accountability for those actions. and the protests are really directed at the lack of accountability so we're going to have to focus on what is needed to create a better system of accountability since it appears that juries are not inclined even with the eric garner case it was obvious in the world to take action. >> schieffer: let me ask you this. as you well know the department of justice is investigating both of these cases.

what if those investigations determine there was not wrongdoing on the part of the police, what will the reaction be of the black community? >> well, i think the reaction not only in the black community but i think those who want accountability and justice is going to be great degree of disappointment. i think it's premature to prejudge how those investigations might materialize. history of the rodney king incident, incident in new york city, indicated that in many cases where the justice department does step in after the fact can achieve justice, i have great faith that the attorney general, the united states attorneys will be completely thorough in their investigations, that's really what we want. just so many questions around the grand jury system in missouri, the grand jury system

here in staten island. indeed even today the prosecutor in missouri had to apologize yesterday that there was some testimony that he didn't release when he said he made all of the testimony public. >> schieffer: i'm very sorry we'll have to stop it here. thank you so much. we'll be back in a minute. >> thanks for having me. dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money? daughter: looking at options. what do you guys pay in fees? dad: i don't know exactly. daughter: if you're not happy do they have to pay you back? dad: it doesn't really work that way. daughter: you sure? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab.

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>> schieffer: you heard varying opinions of the cia report now here is mine. i do believe the cia went too far in the interrogation tactics it adopted? yes. did they get valuable information i simply don't know. republicans on the senate intelligence committee and cia say yes. democrats as you heard say, no. what are we to make of that? i've known most of the people on this committee for years, they are good people. i wouldn't question any of their characters. the days after 9/11 though were unlike anything the american people have ever gone through. i'll never forget those hours after the planes hit the twin towers. we were blindsided. some people who died were friends of mine. knowing our frame of mind then, it is hard for me to condemn those who were trying to prevent a second attack which they

thought was imminent. but what i don't understand how good people on this committee can look at the same set of facts and come to such different conclusions. what i do know is that i never want to go through another 9/11, preventing that should be the government's priority and whether this report's release is helpful to that is not all that clear to me. back in a minute. affects millio. and for many, it's a struggle to keep your a1c down. so imagine, what if there was a new class of medicine that works differently to lower blood sugar? imagine, loving your numbers. introducing once-daily invokana®. it's the first of a new kind of prescription medicine that's used along with diet and exercise to lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. invokana® is a once-daily pill that works around the clock to help lower a1c. here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in, and

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or liver problems. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. it's time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. ask your doctor about invokana®. >> schieffer: some of our stations are leaving us now most of you we'll be right back with lot more "face the nation."

>> schieffer: welcome back to "face the nation." we turn to the chairman of the house in tell begins committee, mike rogers. he is leading congress i must say congressman we're sorry to see you go you have the respect of people on both sides of the aisle. we wish you well. i want to ask you about this report. you said, you didn't want this report released. you said in the beginning that you were worried it would lead to violence and death. what exactly do you mean by that? >> well, the reason i came to that conclusion because that's what foreign leaders told us who were engaged in trying to get their country's stabilized they believed it would incite violence in their particular countries. we had foreign intelligence services say they believe it would incite violence in their countries including attacks against u.s. embassies or u.s.

personnel. our own intelligence services issued an analytical report that believed it would cause and lead to violence. and likely death i based my conclusion on all of that. what i argued was the information. >> schieffer: so far so good. obviously you and i both hope that that doesn't happen. sure. >> schieffer: the question that i have, these tactics have already been banned by the president. why did the senate decide it was necessary to put this report out, do you think? >> you know, that's a great question. i don't know. when you look at what the risks were, remember we had the department of justice found no criminal wrongdoing, fact that we had already debated this publicly in congress and talked about what we weren't going to do what our values were when it came to interrogation, passed law that we use army field manual. why now, for what purpose. we can't do it it's against the

law to do these things. i don't know. i wish i knew the answer to the question. what i do know is that the risk is ongoing and very real and it will take time, i think see consequence of the release of this report. >> schieffer: john mccain says it should be out, many other republicans including you say no. some democrats say it should have been released, how is it that so many good people, there are good people on both sides of this, people on the senate intelligence committee i've known nearly all of them for years. i wouldn't question any of them's character. yet they come to absolutely opposite conclusions about the facts in this report. >> good people in this town can disagree. i believe when you look at somebody who released bipartisan report, they are difficult to do in this town. this was not a bipartisan report. it was only done by democrats and democrats staff, methodology is being questioned, no

interviews, not one person was interviewed for the report in their release of the report. i think that that does i think cloud people's judgment as this might not be the definitive report. think about this, now you have eu is talking about prosecutions of the people involved. united nations is talking about investigations and prosecutions. this i think was a very, very difficult time when we are a nation at war, we have increasing threat from isil to release report -- allows world to take a different conclusion about who we are and where we are when it comes to torture. >> schieffer: do you agree with the report's conclusion? >> this was not new information. we newsom places, especially in very beginning of the program didn't have good management structure to it, individuals were under the pressure to find information to stop terrorists attacks. we have to put it in context, that all happened, those were issues that were known and reviewed and debated internally

and i think classified settings trying to get those things fixed. some of the conclusions that this was absolutely no help whatsoever, i think is incorrect. again i'm an fbi agent i'm trained in rapport building not more enhanced interrogation technique. i thiara port building works and it's effective. we should not judge those people who were engaged in activities that the united states said, engage in so we can stop another terrorist attack. we didn't even know if there was another one planned. ten years in to this to go back i think ruin their lives over what we have already fixed, already recognized, had some flaws to try to fix those i think was just -- again was not a good decision. >> schieffer: you're leaving the congress now. let's look ahead, what has to happen here? obviously we need intelligence service. is it time for a big overhaul of the cia? how do you heal this riff between intelligence committee

and cia obviously this is not a good thing really when you come down to it. >> i'm very, very concerned about this. we need our intelligence services at the top of their game. again, i think this report unfortunately will allow the world who already doesn't like the america for prone aob to say, see, i told you we shouldn't like america for this reason. we're going to have to continue to try to fix it here. by the way we talk about what work they do. for this particular report about something that happened seven, eight, nine, ten years ago we forget talk about all the fantastic work that these very dedicated men and women have been doing day in and day out without the ability darn dash with the ability to follow the law do it appropriately. we should talk about that. tell those stories about what they're doing to keep america safe. it will make america feel better about who they are. we still need to provide oversight, sometimes we have

disagreement in the oversight committees, people should understand that in those classified sessions we do have debate. it's not cia love fest or republican democrat love fest there is real debate. real philosophical differences that we work our way through so that these folks and men and women can gain the support of the united states, collect intelligence and save lives here at home. we just need to get back to talking about that. >> schieffer: we want to wish you the very best. >> thanks, bob. >> schieffer: we'll be right back.

>> schieffer: we're back with our panel before i introduce them i want to say that earlier in the broadcast i misspoke i said senator john mccain was the only republican who wanted to make the intelligence committee report public. that will come as a surprise to senator collins, senator chambliss and senator bird,

three republicans who did vote to declassify the report. but like other republicans on the committee they did not agree with its conclusions. in fact they disagreed strongly. beg knee noonan is cbs contributor and she writes for the "wall street journal" is columnist of course, "washington post" columnist, michael gerson is here. want to welcome charles ellison the contributor to the root and "new york times" correspondent mark mazzetti who is out front on this intelligence committee report from the very start. peggy, let me just start with you. because i read what you wrote about this. one thing i kept wondering about as this thing was coming out is i've said about six times now, how is it that serious people can come to such opposite conclusions, what was going on here, was there more in play here than just the facts?

>> i think there were various angles playing out, some long simmering tensions between some members of the committee and the cia. i as i look at this, most extraordinary report think that it is very flawed and imperfect. i wish it had been a bipartisan support, had conducted in way that could have gotten republicans and democrats together taking part. i wish that things involved in the incidentslleged of torture had been allowed to come and speak and had been interviewed, it is strange that they were not. i wish it had not been made public. i wish it had been more deeply, historically grounded and serious and mandatory reading for all pertinent people in the u.s. government. that having been said, there is a public purpose in putting

before the american people what was done in terms of torture in the early months and years after 9/11 when america was in a bad place and those who were trying to get information were operating in a way they thought was legal. but it's a pretty appalling list of incidents. it is knot bad at the end of the day that we're all thinking about this and coming to terms with what we think is appropriate for a great nation. >> schieffer: mark, you were in the front on this story for a long time. you've been reporting on this. republicans expressed concerns that it really could put people's lives in danger. are you seeing any evidence of that so far? >> right. predictions of mass protests immediately after the report was released, hasn't materialized. we'll see what happens, we'll see what impact it has. on the question of why making it public, senator feinstein, said

in her speech tuesday we have this inability to learn from our mistakes. we keep doing the same things over again, her point was, only by making it public by lifting all these incredibly details do we see that it didn't work in her mind. and also that if we were to think about doing it again, to prevent the next attack this wouldn't be a good path to go down. that was the argument she made. we'll see ultimately down the road about if there is some kind of international impact. >> schieffer: what do you think, charles? >> this is sort of, tell me something i don't know moment. this is something we've been sort of inoculated about as far as the whole issue of torture as far as pop culture. we've been inoculated by endless episodes of "homeland" "24" and "zero dark 30" stript in the post 9/11 age.

this sort of fell flat on a lot of folks, we already knew this was occurring for some time. we've known it based on the pop culture, on the stream much news reports that have been coming out of both middle east and also just a lot of talk that's been coming off of capitol hill. it's not so much debate over the -- whether or not we should have released the report it's a debate over details within the report feeling rather embarrassed. i think what sort of surrey's is the political timing of this report and release of the report. if frankly, of course, democrats have to release it now because republicans are going to take over in the senate come 2015. >> schieffer: mr. gerson you thought the release of this report if i remember your words, a dangerous precedent here for those in the field who are out conducting investigations. >> there is in fact historical and security context that this street revealed in.

president obama has adopted a manner of war that is heavily dependent on intelligence. intelligence we get from syrian rebels. that we employ in drone strikes. and people at the cia that i talked to feel under siege, people at the nsa field under siege. this is a period where we're putting a huge amount of pressure on our intelligence community to produce. at the same time they feel -- people involved with the broken program wonder, are we next? one told me, these people are viewed as torturers are we going to be viewed as murderers in ten years, in the drone program when someone else politically doesn't approve. and i think people at the cia believe this is going to undermine our daily interactions with other intelligence services. which is how can we conduct sensitive operations with you when you can't as a nation. i think there are real world

results. >> why not rip the band-aid off now. we've had that damaged relationship with-allies right now, for example, this information is already out there just feels a little bit more official and lot more details coming out. >> not in this form w. this result. >> you can see the concern inside obama administering about who is losing the cia most public forceful response by administration was by the cia director in this unprecedented live press conference from cia headquarters. president obama let john brennan do that is telling. we really should also acknowledge that there is a lot of dissent in the cia about this program that comes out in the report from a lot of people i spoke to. one of the most striking things about the report in my mind in 2002 during first waterboarding

session the first cia prisoner saw these harrowing things saying, they're appalled by what they're watching saying it's not working. response from headquarters is keep doing it. don't question whether it's legal or not. >> schieffer: you know, peggy, everything about this is kind of different when you stop and think about it. the report comes out, head of the committee, diane feinstein, a woman widely respected on both sides of the aisle does one very testy interview with wolf blitzer on cnth then we don't hear another word from her. but when the head of the cia holds this unprecedented news conference, she starts tweeting. what was it, 20-some odd tweets. i've never scenery action quite like that. >> it was strange and looked defensive. on the other hand you had

another senator, john mccain, making really moving and striking speech on the floor of the u.s. senate and showing up today. sort of pulling the argument back to who are we as a people. we have to think about this. are we the people who do this? i think we are not. not in our history, not in our tradition. stop now. rethink this thing. that's what i think is interesting that nobody would ever side you're on on this thing pretty much nobody is coming forward saying, you know the guys whose actions are outlined in this report, i think they ought to be prosecuted, held up to shame. nobody is say can that. everybody is saying, we know what happened on 9/11. we know what the time was like. we understand. they were doing their best according to the legal rights as they understood it but let's not ever do that again. >> schieffer: you know, i'm sitting here thinking about

diane feinstein tweeting. do you think that was really diane feinstein or was that her staff? >> i think most likely her staff who were clearly trying -- they saw coordinated pushback but by the end of the day on thursday after all the tweets you saw fairly conciliatory statement towards what brennan said on thursday. i think she wanted to dial that back a little bit from the hours earlier with all the tweets. i think she kind of said that brennan agreed with her that she welcomed that. i think she was trying to dial back a little bit. >> they talk to each other in great democracy. a news conference, somebody on corner tweeting outlines rebutting him. there's something unseemly about that.

>> for example, on the house side you've got oversight committee, he is holding his hearing because he knows that he's about to go out. also feinstein doing that with senate intelligence committee, she's no longer going to be chair she has to go out with a big hurrah you have that social media element. once again you look at the other political element gearing up for 2016 highway is this going to change the political landscape headed for 2016. how is this going to make certain candidates look. this libertarian wave. >> schieffer: let me shift to the congress, that's what you're talking about. i know the people that work with me at "face the nation" are going to run for the door when i say this because they sauce say, i say it about every other word. this is the least productive congress in history probably and certainly in modern times. they're ending up this weekend

just as they began going deep in to the night, threats about shutting down the government and all of that. again you have texas senator ted cruz taking on the republican leadership. leadership in his own party. just want to you hear what he said last night. >> whole lot of citizens across this country feel a little bit like charlie brown with lucy and the football. where fight after fight, leadership in congress said, we'll fight next time. not this time, no, no. the wise thing to do is fight in a month. two months. three months. not now. there comes point where charlie brown has kicked the football and fallen on his rear end one too many times. >> schieffer: what about it michael gerson. you worked for president bush. >> how to lose friends and alienate neighbors. this is -- they got a vote

eventually 22 people supporting it. really undermining their own cause. you can question the reason whether that's fundraising or foolishness. they're undermining their own cause. the interesting thing in this wider part of the congress was emergence of the populous of both parties. emergence of the cruz wing but also the elizabeth warren wing. this is a warning, there is a market in the democratic for populous anti-market. if i was hillary clinton i would not be happy about that. >> schieffer: do we think that elizabeth warren is going to run? >> i don't think we should count her out. i think -- speaking to michael's point here about populism. there's just throughout american political landscape right now i think that right now people want authentic candidate. elizabeth warren comes on as very authentic person. that is what people are graph stating towards we saw that in

2008. b. >> schieffer: what do you think, peggy? >> she's looking like someone who is starting to see herself as a leader. she is i think trying to lead the progressive wing, maybe leading the progressive wing of the democratic party. progressive wing on republican party, too. i think there is potential there. if she goes forward if mrs. clinton does not run. i don't know if she would go forward if mrs. clinton does. but maybe she would and maybe it would rock the house. there might be -- >> some mistakes in 2008 i wouldn't be surprised see if warren gets -- >> schieffer: we ought to talk about demonstrations yesterday. this story is story that is not going away. do you think this is going to be a significant thing in the coming elections? >> i do. sort of seeing the start of

civil rights microsoft part two. there was some unsettleddish ice from the first issues 40 years ago, the relationship between law enforcement agencies and the communities they protect, communities of color. it's bringing up -- another thing, too, that you have just society in general is growing very sensitive to the issue because there's some growing sense of a police state, surveillance issues, issues about invasion of digital privacy. people are concerned about that. you have people of color were marching yesterday, say, where were you guys, we've been going through this about 400 years now. >> schieffer: mark, you'll get the last word. this business with the cia will that be an issue in 2016? >> i think it will be issue certainly -- you'll have candidate asked about what they think about these techniques. i think they should be asked. they should be on record about whether they support some of these techniques. and the issue of terrorism especially in environment of isis is not going away.

really political issue, what is the proper response. it's with us for awhile. >> schieffer: i think you're right. that's it. thank you all very much. we've run out of time. we'll be right back.

>> schieffer: that is it for us. be sure to tune in to "cbs this morning" tomorrow because oprah winfrey will be dropping by. thank you for watching "face the nation." see you next week.

captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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