>> dickerson: today on face the nation. the campaign caravan moves from wisconsin to new york. the front runners stumble in the midwest try to rebound in the empire state. just like new york the campaign is getting both aggressive -- >> i don't believe that she is qualified. >> dickerson: and theatrical all five presidential candidates spent the week as humans of new york. they road subways, or tried to, showed off their baking skills. toured the 9/11 museum. and of course, ate for the cameras or not for the cameras. >> i learned early on not to eat in front of all of you. >> dickerson: bernie sanders has now won seven of the last eight states he got in to see

"hamilton" but can he win enough in the states to come. as john kasich tries to score as many delegates as three-point shots we'll talk to him about his strategy with just 99 days to the cleveland convention the clock is running down on him. we'll also look back at the first contested convention in the television era. and film maker ken burns will be here to preview his new film on jackie robinson, all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning, welcome to "face the nation." ted cruz picked up additional 1 delegates this weekend in colorado's republican contest. bringing him even closer to donald trump. on the democratic side although bernie sanders won the wyoming caucuses, due to the state's rules he and hillary clinton both picked up seven delegates. we begin with bernie sanders who joins us from new york city. welcome, senator. is the victory in wyoming a picture of where the campaign is

at this moment a win for you, sounds good but then you look at the delegate number you split it with hillary clinton? >> well, that is the eighth victory that we have won in the last nine contests. there is no question i think that we have the momentum. if you look at national polling where we started this campaign we were 60 points down, some of the recent polls actually have national polls ahead of secretary clinton. we're closing the gap in new york and pennsylvania and california. i am feeling really great. i believe that we have a real path to victory and that at the end of the day we're going to win this? >> dickerson: let's talk about that path. because you still have to make up that deficit in delegates. the people who look at the math here say that that path requires you -- you need big wins, do you think that is probable? how does that happen? what's the path? >> let me say this, john, we

have cut her lead by a third in the last three or so weeks. i think we're now 214 delegates behind, used to be more than 300 behind. we got some big states. when we began this campaign we had to deal with the south, the deep south, that's a pretty conservative part of this country. not a stronghold for me. but out of the south now we're heading to new york, heading west i think we're going to see us do very, very well in many of those states. the reason is that our message is resonating. people really are tired of establishment politics, establishment cheeks economics. they do not believe that candidate who receives huge amount of money from wall street or other special interests like secretary clinton, will be capable of addressing the major crises facing the working families of this country. >> dickerson: the mention the south is not a stronghold for you. let me ask you about your theory

of the presidency that you'll be able to build the momentum that will swamp republicans in those southern parts of the country because you will build such a movement that it will overcome all of the political blockage that kept things clotted up here in washington. but haven't been able to up with in the south doesn't that mean there's a limit to your appeal that won't be able to work as you'd like it to when you become president. >> john, that's not exactly what i've been saying. what i have been saying is that we are waging what we call a political revolution. and what that means is that no president, not bernie sanders or anybody else can do what has to be done for the middle class of this country, pay equity for women, health care for all. make sure that we're not the only major country, that's guarantee paid family and medical leave. make colleges to you particulars free. what we need street a strong

political movement where millions of people, working people, young people, stand up, fight back and demand the government that represents all of us not just multi-campaign contributors. lieutenant me give you example, can temporary example. i have believed for awhile now that we need $15 an hour minimum wage. secretary clinton has supported a $1 an hour minimum wage. what you're seeing all across this country is workers standing up, fighting back, now you got california and new york state passing $15 an hour minimum wage because people demanded it. that's what our campaign is about. >> dickerson: let me ask you about political movements i was thinking about the 1980 race, jimmy carter won, then kennedy said he had a movement he contested it even though he had not won the majority, took it all the way to the convention, had a big fight. kennedy lost he really -- he won platform, he really used that moment to get across his message

have you contemplated or thought about doing anything like that? >> well, obviously we will play an active role in shaping the platform. what we're going to fight for is the demand that time of massive income and wealth and equality, wealthiest people and largest corporation start paying their fair share of taxes. we'll demand vigorous action in climate change, we leave this planet in a healthy way for our kids. we are going to take on the issue of poverty in america, that very few people talk about. it is unacceptable to me that we have highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on earth. we'll rebuild the infrastructure and improve our water systems and waste water plants, roads and bridges. those are the issues that we will fight for to get on the platform whether i am the nominee or secretary clinton is the nominee. >> dickerson: what kennedy did he contested the actual familiar nation to got his message across

is that something you contemplated? >> well, our plan right now is to win this thing. and again i think we're looking pretty good in new york, in pennsylvania, in california, in oregon. i think we have real shot to end up with more delegates. other point i would make, john, is that if you look at most, not aural, but most of the in this casual polling what you find is that bernie sanders won stronger against donald trump and against other republicans, sometimes by pretty large numbers than does hillary clinton. you're going to see a lot of delegates wanting to beat trump, maybe bernie is the guy to do that. >> dickerson: where are we on the question whether hillary clinton is qualified to be president. you said she was, then she wasn't, what is the bottom line? >> we were attacked pretty harshly by the clinton campaign who suggested that i was not qualified. and we responded by saying, you know what, a candidate who

receives enormous amount of money from special interests, a candidate who voted for the war in reaction, candidate who voted for virtually every disastrous trade policy which cost us millions of jobs, well, you know what, maybe her judgment is not quite as high as it should be. john, i want to get away from this stuff. i respect hillary clinton i've known her for 25. i want a debate on real issues. >> dickerson: is her judgment irrevocably broken in way that makes her incapable of doing the job of being president? >> she does enormous experience, everybody who knows her knows that she is very intelligent. but i think her judgment, for example, on foreign policy, let's be clear, the war in iraq was the worst foreign policy blunder in the modern history of america. i heard the same evidence that she did, she was in the senate, i was in the house, i led the

opposition. she supported that war, something that the american people might want to take interest consideration when you think about the judgment. >> dickerson: what the clinton campaign would say they wanted people to take look at your in ii view with the new york daily nice on your core issue of break can up the big banks, the "washington post," tough editorial, mr. sanders shocking ignorance of his core issue. what is your response? >> let me be clear. the "washington post" not one of my strongest supporters. hillary clinton has difference of opinion. i believe that when three out of the four largest banks are bigger than they were when they bailed them out because they were too big to fail, i think they should be broken up i think she would reestablish a 21st century legislation. by the way, supported by john mccain and elizabeth warren something that i think is the right thing to do. there are number of ways to go about breaking up banks, we've introduced legislation, i like my idea best. >> dickerson: we'll have to

leave it there. thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you. dickerson: up next ohio governor john kasich who joins us from rochester, new york. governor, let's started with your path to the nomination don't you have to win more delegates than you've been winning so far? >> oh, yeah, we're going to win more delegates. that is our strategy. here in new york, we're running in second place here where i am right now the town of greece. this congressional district i'm running even with donald trump. the crowds are growing, john. we had 3-4,000 people here today, this morning. we will accumulate delegates and go into the convention, we believe with momentum. >> dickerson: what happened in wisconsin you had smaller number of combat ant. it was in the midwest which is good for you left the stay with no delegates. >> well, look, i think wisconsin first of all the republican party far more conservative than what we saw in michigan or ohio. secondly turned into a stop

trump effort. strutted spent over a million dollars smearing up up three. we were prepared to live with that result. but now that we're going to be in new york, going to be in pennsylvania. the proof will be in the pudding we will accumulate delegates you'll see it. we'll go to the convention, the interesting thing, john, is more and more people -- the political establishment is beginning to look at two things. one, who can win in the fall. i'm the only one that consistently beats hillary clinton in the fall. and there is great concern in the republican party that we're not just talking about the presidential race. frankly if we get blown out in the fall which i think we would with both cruz and trump we could lose united states senate. we would lose seats all wait way from the state house to the courthouse this is going to be a big consideration at the convention. secondly, we're actually going to try to figure out who could be a good president. >> dickerson: you'll go into the convention with the least amount

of delegates probably of the three people who were in this contest still. is your main competition then cruz and trim l or is it -- people are talking about paul ryan. some people have talked about mitt romney, who do you see your competition if it's as wide open as need to be for to you win? >> well, i don't know -- dash look, sheer what is going to happen i don't want to get into all the process i think you're going to see a significant changes in the delegates voting after the first ballot. we have like the best people who can know how to manage a convention. the key for me there is going to make sure this i'm able to visit all these delegations. as you know, the process of picking delegates now varies from state to state. so, it's going to be very interesting, we'll have full court press, people that know how to do this the key for me to be there. here is what is interesting. i am the second choice of the cruz people and also the trump people. it's interesting. also as you know we've had ten

contested conventionss, only three times has the front runner won and i don't want to go back in history, too far, but i think old honest abe went into the convention third or fourth. and came out the winner. we'll see. >> dickerson: people are looking at this now and they think well people who got more delegates shouldn't they have some value? you will go in with your delegates than anybody else. but you have -- >> you have to make the magic number. like when you take a test if an a is 90 you get 85 you don't get an a. i've been talking about this for a month. >> dickerson: you're in there with 60. >> well, wait a minute. we don't know what we have yet, john. we're going to have to have some momentum and accumulate more delegates. our strategy is to continue to move forward to accumulate delegates. so, we'll see what happens out of new york, pennsylvania, maryland, connecticut. we'll see what happens there.

so don't be trying to predict how many i'll have. because i'm not going to predict it but i'm going go to have more than i have right now we'll be viable. >> dickerson: let's talk about -- >> john, at the end of the day i'm the only person that consistently beats hillary clinton in the fall. when are we going to pick somebody that can't win? that would be nuts. >> dickerson: lot me ask you about hillary clinton, there was debate this side about whether she's qualified to be president. do you think she is? >> well, it's not job to be running around questioning people's qualifications, let the voters decide. i think she's -- i beat her in virtually every state all are the time. and my biggest challenge now of course is this republican primary. and we just have to keep moving on it and we get into the fall you talk to democrats, experts they say kasich can attract crossover votes as independents i've demonstrated an ability to do that in the general election. we have to get to that point. immunol going to say this person

is not qualified or start attacking, i don't want to go there. >> dickerson: a question about something that your colleague, governor in north carolina, signed a law in north carolina ban anti-discrimination based on sexual orientation and mandated transgender people use public bathrooms based on the sex indicated on their birth certificates. would you have signed that law? >> probably not. we are not having this issue in our state about this whole religious liberty. i believe that religious institutions ought to be protected and be able to be in a position of where they can live out their deeply held religious purposes. but when you get beyond that it gets to be a tricky issue. and tricky is not the right word but a contentious issues. but in our state we're not facing this. everybody needs to take a deep breath, respect one another and

with the minute we start trying to write laws, things become more polarized, more complicated, obviously i don't want to force people to violate their deeply held religious convictions, we have to see what that is all about. i wouldn't have signed that law from everything i know i haven't studied it. nathan deal, the governor of georgia, vetoed another one. just got to see what the laws are and pro the proposals. why do we have to write a law every time we turn around in this country. can't we figure out just how to get along a little bit better and respect one another? that's where i think we ought to be. everybody, chill out, get over it if you have a disagreement with somebody. that's where i am right now, john. unless something that pops up i'm in the inclined to sign anything. >> dickerson: governor john kasich we appreciate you being with us. >> thank you. dickerson: we'll be back in one minute.

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>> dickerson: with news director of elections an none knee salvanto. so, you're in new york, let's start with new york. what is the state of play there for donald trump? >> the polling has had donald trump up. but in new york as we'll see in the story elsewhere, up isn't enough any more. he has to win he has to win big. because what happens is, new york will be giving out its delegates by congressional district also proportionally within those districts. what it is, is that for donald trump to get back on track after loss in wisconsin, after ted cruz has been cutting in to his lead he will need large win in new york, probably watch if he can get two-thirds of the delegates out of it that will be rebound after falling short this week. the. >> dickerson: the polings have trump up by a lot in new york, also not state that really sets up very well for ted cruz so what does ted cruz do in new york if is there a way he can grab some delegates from

trump and for that matter john kasich following a similar strategy? >> there is. if you look at new york the way the campaigns will start looking at new york, it is, district by district, which means that candidates like cruz or kasich who hey fall short overall are going to go around sharing places, where there might be more conservative voters. there are delegates to be, maybe upstate, in these areas of new york up here where if they can find more conservative voters and pull out some districts from those areas, their strategy will be, stop trump, undermine trump's delegate count try a little bit to cut into that lead by picking up delegates here and there. >> dickerson: that's right. so, the goal now for cruz -- before we get to that. is the chance that senator cruz could get to the magic anybody of 1,237 is that rellly possible when you look at the math right

now? >> well, right now, only donald trump has a truly viable chance to get to the magic number of 1237. in fact it's the size of traumas overall lead that has people talking in terms like we're saying of slowing him down, of preventing him from getting to that majority. then taking this on to what we be contested or open convention. for everybody trailing donald trump that's the key. can they slow him down, cut into his ability to amass delegates as we go forward enough to deny that majority then we go on to cleveland, john. >> dickerson: you mentioned that trump would need two-thirds of new york to be on track how would he have to do in all of the remaining contests to have shot for him to get the 1237 and be done with all this tuck of open convention? >> it's going to take awhile. we have seen donald trump have big nights before. but he is going to have lot of big nights from here out in

order to make it. when we start looking beyond new york, when we get to the atlantic states, we'll get to pennsylvania. we'll get to delaware and rhode island, for example. at the end ever april, he'll need big wins there. after that, we're going to head into the midwest, going to head to indiana. then eventually on west to washington and oregon. in all of that, donald trump would have to win a majority of delegates in a majority of states in order to get back on path and even then he would just barely get above 1237 after which he would have to go out to california and then get, i think, about 80% of the delegates out of california just to get that magic number of 1237. he has to keep winning, he has to keep winning big in order to get there. >> dickerson: let's switch to the democratic side.

what does brands have to shrinking the lead? >> hard for brands because as you mentioned earlier the rules. the way the democrats give out their delegates is proportional. meaning that they give some of the winner but some to the loser in all the states. so, anybody who is trailing and in this case of course bernie sanders is trailing hillary clinton, he needs to not just win but again he needs to win big. in fact so big that it would be the kind of wins that we don't see and haven't seib. something like 70-30 or 80-20. another rink in all of this. what democrats call superdelegates. they are rimmed in this part of the light blue bar in hillary clinton's news right here. superdelegates are democratic -- >> dickerson: we'll ha to interrupt. we'll be back. we'll be right back with a look at contested conventions. safety doesn't come in a box. it's not a banner that goes on a wall.

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>> dickerson: with all the talk of the contested convention, we couldn't help taking a trip to the archives for a peek at the first contested republican convention of the television age. it is the most catchy campaign slogan ever. >> you like ike? i like ike ♪ >> who wouldn't like him of a ii all led allies to victory in world war ii many consider his presidency the peak of american prosperity and harmony. but there was not harmony in chicago in 1952 when eisenhower sought the republican nomination. ike wasn't the choice of the party elite he was the outsider but he claimed to be the candidate of the people. >> mr. republican. mr. america. i present my friend, bob taft. >> establishment candidate was ohio senator robert taft who rolled into the convention with more delegates than eisenhower.

that's because he sold them. each man showed up with his own slate of delegates. for days men in boxy suits were in the credentials committee to determine whose delegates were valid. >> there seems to be confidence in both camps. >> a fresh-faced reporter named walter concreek gave americans their first look at the mechanics of how a party chooses its candidate. might have all happened behind closed doors but eisenhower insisted the proceedings be televised. the guard against any more shenanigans and indeed the first round went to eisenhower. but the establishment wouldn't let go in the next round gave delegates to their man taft. that's where we leave things. in our next installment eisenhower fights back and makes history. we'll be bane r back in a we'll be bane r back in a moment. back pain? motrin helps you be the side-planking,

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>> dickerson: we'll be right back. including our political panel and interview with pbs film maker ken burns about his latest project, jackie robinson. say with us.

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>> the new york city subway is the best way to get around. [ laughter ] is this working? the old-fashioned way. >> dickerson: of course not really hillary clinton it's from last night's "saturday night live" but signals that returning to political roundtable for some analysis. we welcome jennifer jacobs who from the political fields of iowa and "des moines register" join the team at bloomberg news. jamelle boy we for slate magazine.

and chief correspondent for the "washington post". and ramesh from the senior review. dan, what is the state of play in the democratic contest? >> well, the state of lay is this. bernie sanders has momentum and hillary clinton has mathematics. and right now momentum is prevailing at least in the narrative of the campaign so there's lot of focus on, a, how is sanders tubal continue to in a sense perform better than anybody expected. he's run a remarkable campaign by any measure. and yet delegate, hard math continues to be in clinton's favor. new york is very important to her. it begins a period in which she will be able, she hopes, by the end of this month to be able to say there is no way he can become the nominee. and in a sense give her permission slip not simply to compete for the final delegates but turn her election. >> dickerson: finally makes that commitment. jennifer, i was talking to

somebody, who says unless sands forces major shift in the campaign that there's really -- continues doing well just not going to be able to do well enough. >> bernie sanders just regioning out of real estate. and just the fact that she tie him in delegates even though he won demonstrates how rough this road to going to be. she's done that repeatedly. many states where they tied or he beat her and then she got almost as many delegates or if not more. so it's just going to be a rough road for him. and seems like she is the presumptive nominee unless there's a major game changer. >> dickerson: this week it got contentious, bernie sanders said she wasn't qualified, lot of back and forth. seemed like maybe ragged and tired from this process, but where do you get the sense of things? starting to be irrevocable things said, have they stepped back from the hottest part of this race? >> i think there are attempting to step back. your in ii view with senator

sandsers he qualified a little bit then said, of course, i think she would be a fine president of the united states if she was nominee. worth noting in 2008 around this time, something like half of clinton supporters said they wouldn't vote for obama in the general. things seem contentious and harp right now, once we get to the convention, regardless of the nominee, i think the democratic party is going to pretty quickly unify, just sensing an ability to hold on to the white house and win quite a bit more seats in both that i don't think anyone imagined is possible six months ago. that is back to winning really on the table here in a big way. going to be the force that really pushes everyone. >> dickerson: how happy would be worst things saying, that they're not qualified. >> talking about contentious on the democratic side it's really almost comically restrained in

the context of what is going on. what you have not seen on bernie sanders is attack on clinton that she's not honest and trustworthy that this line of attack would be fruitful because there are only minority of americans believe she's honest and trustworthy. but one that would give republicans something serious to use in the general election. >> dickerson: dan, do you think, in terms of bernie sanders, did he step by talking about qualifications, he's had a good run. if he give a gift by talking about that. getting off track? >> i do. i think it hurt him in this way. he had a big victory in wisconsin. he is headed into two-week period ahead of the new york primary with the wind at his back yet all of a sudden got caught up in debate that did him no favors. i think that a lot of democrats believe that he lost that week, a week that he needed to keep the momentum going.

i think it was a misstep on his part in a sense he took the bait from the clinton come pain and escalated beyond what it needed to be? i was struck with the in ii view that he can't quite let go of it. he knows he ought to. they seemed to pivot out of it late last week yet again today he's kind of repeating some of the same lines. i don't think it was helpful he's got to regain the momentum that he had a week ago. >> dickerson: does it matter that bernie sanders had a bad in ii view on specifics with the "new york daily news" to his voters? >> i think it did. one democrat pointed out that bernie sanders is person edging more pinocchio, is that he's learning delegates. the thing about, she's said, quote, unquote, that i'm unqualified was one of the things where he was fact checked as false. >> dickerson: she didn't actually say that. >> there have been other things that fact checked on lately that are permeating into the consciousness, people are

realizing he doesn't always get his facts right. >> i'm conservative but want to defend the social list, a lot of cheap shots. when senator sanders says, we're going to put a cap on the size of the bank, it will be up to them to figure out how they meet that cap, it's legitimate answer. that's the way the cap works. just silly for people to say, why doesn't he spell out what they have to do? >> i'm going to agree there. reading that inner is view, sanders clear idea of the kinds of policies you want to pursue. he knows that laws like dodd frank give the white house authority in terming how to pursue bank regulation. can't give you chapter and verse less important than fact that he does have broad sense of what his administration would do to approach these questions. >> what he's got that has been effective he has diagnosis of what he thinks the problems in the country are and basis for which that occurs. and set of policies that are

designed out of that diagnosis. she has series of answers for specific problems. but that's different thing than theory of the case. i think it's one of the reasons his message has been more succinct there for probably more effective. what she's got is everything that the clintons bring to the table. >> his campaign is on fire. if he had been this strong he would be the nominee. >> another aspect of this. which is what nobody quite likes to talk about that's superdelegates. she has -- we know she has big lead in superdelegates. they have more superdelegates than they have announced. they have in the neighborhood of 6 40 superdelegates. many of whom are not prepared to publicly say that. and if he doesn't have majority of pledged delegates there's no way the superdelegates are going to switch. >> dickerson: let's hold it there we'll get back to the

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if you have allergy congestion muddling through your morning is nothing new. introducing rhinocort® allergy spray from the makers of zyrtec®. powerful relief from nasal allergy symptoms, all day and all night. try new rhinocort® allergy spray. >> dickerson: we're back with our panel. >> ted cruz is getting reputation for outfoxing donald trump in that hand to hand delegate combat. so yesterday in colorado he swept up all of the available delegates there, now has 34 from colorado. iowa did the same thing. his people managed to squeeze themselves into all but one

delegate slot in iowa. don he is just running circles around donald trump in this case. this won't matter if trump gets to the necessary number before the convention. they know that they're going to have trouble in few of the upcoming contests. they know that nebraska south dakota, man montana, washington state, oregon, are going to be trouble. trim for trump, yes. the trump people do think that they're going to do well in almost all the other states. that includes california and indiana and if they do all this delegate wrangling that ted cruz is doing won't matter as much. trump is complaining that he thinks that this process is tilted. seems like he's been more focused on the states that he's winning than how you actually technically win. but he is listening to the fact that he needs to do more. i have heard he is sending a crew down to the rnc, republican national committee spring meeting in florida and their

whole mission is to meet the rnc members from the various states, work on building relationships and sending the message that they want to work with the party officials. >> dickerson: donald trump has been tweeting on this question of fairness. he wrote tweet that says, isn't it a shame that person who will have most delegates, many millions more votes than anyone else, still must fight. he's making this case on fairness grounds, forget the math, forget 1237. how potent is that argument? >> if he gets majority of the vote, majority of the dig gats he's going to be the nominee. and i don't think concept of majority rule is all that difficult or arcane for people to understand. >> dickerson: what if he gets the plurality. it's open convention, trying to say even that will have most of the delegates that will be unfair. >> try to make that argue; maybe sway some of the delegates. he's got to do three things.

get as many delegates as he can. second, actually compete in this delegate selection process where so far senator cruz's people have been the only people showing up up to the in ii view. third, actually organize effort to sway supporters of other candidates on second ballot which you've heard almost nothing from. from the trump campaign. >> they have been trying to organize two months ago along the lines, probable have this nomination wrapped up but they are getting to it very late. >> dickerson: going ahead. >> trump, i have the most argument may not sway actual delegates. i wouldn't ignore extent to which actual regular voters may find the entire process unfair if the person who won the most of everything but in the quite technical majority didn't get the nomination. just because expectation voters have of going to the polls is not that some arcane process to determine the nominee.

but the guy who won will determine. i wouldn't put aside. potentially very important. >> john, i sat down friday evening in new york with paul, who has been tasked by donald trump to be the convention manager and in a sense be in charge of the whole process of accumulating the delegates. clearly in the middle of a transition, they have been this outfoxed, out circled out run by cruz campaign in all of these organizing things. challenge ahead for them is, can they now get their act together in this kind of hand to hand combat. but he said, he's laid down a marker that they will be able to accumulate enough delegates so that it is clear he is going to be the nominee before cleveland. he said, by mid may i hope we are in a sense the presumptive nominee. they have set a very high bar for themselves given the difficulty that they have been having. >> dickerson: i wondered about that word, presumptive nominee. i can claim, even if i haven't

gotten majority of delegates. by this standard that if you just had most delegates of everything, that makes you presumptive? >> i think it goes beyond that. that is part of it. but i think it is recognition on the part of the party that he is inevitable at this point. now, he thought they should have treated him better back in march when he was on a winning streak. that didn't happen for all the reasons we know. but the question about his qualification, his knowledge and whether he would take the party to a big loss. but they are hoping that if they can have a big night in new york and other states as we go forward that the party establishment, the ways of jennifer was talking abut, of build those bridges, that people begin to coalesce. >> dickerson: what do you make of trumps tone change a little bit moving towards being presidential, is that happening? >> a month ago he tried to do that then everything fell apart a. month ago, everyone was saying, we think he is going to be inevitable we need to live in

that trump world and learn to accept it. that disappeared. but people are starting to advise him, start off at square one, go back to your original policy ideas where you're talking about the national security, health care, cleaning up washington, d.c., other people are saying, quit twitter, stop now if you're not going to do it. quit tweeting now. then focus on the scoreboard start racking up the delegates. one thing a bout cruz, he doesn't get credit, shows what a great micro organizer his team is and his strategist say, that shows to be great general election candidate because he really knows how to organize and excite. >> dickerson: have to leave it there. thanks to all of you. come up next, cbs film maker ken burns previews his latest project, jackie robinson.

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>> dickerson: we're back with filmmaker ken burns whose latest works is "jackie robertson." sim else starter question, why jackie robertson. >> most important person in the history of baseball. he may not be the best player but most important because he

was this pioneer finally making the game what it always claimed to be. the national pastime. the first african american in the modern age to cross the color line. we don't focus too much. we say he crossed the color line but we don't talk about it. tell the story that we've been working for sever years, deep dive, not just the narrow story of what we're familiar with that 1947 turning the other cheek christ like thing. that the whole story from the 1919. >> if i have room jammed with trophies, awards, citation,, and child of mine came into that room asked, what i had done in defense of black people fighting for freedom. if i had to tell that child to keep quiet, then i had been timid, i would have to mark

myself a total failure. jackie robinson. >> dickerson: tell us about where america was during this period to set the stage for him? >> well, it's about race in ways that we are right now. what's so interesting about this story of jackie robinson it resonates with today in so many ways from confederate flag, to driving while black and modern stuff we're dealing with. there was after world war ii a real question, there had been for many years in the black press and leftist press, the great symbol of america, the in this casual pastime. and why didn't we live out the true meaning and bring someone up. through a whole set of very interesting accidents, jackie became that person. and when you realize when he came up on april 15, 1947, martin luther king was a junior at mother house college, truman

hadn't integrated, no brown versus board of education. rosa parks hadn't not giving up her seat. in a military base in texas. he's really, himself interview for freedom ride. >> dickerson: what was their action? >> you know, it was in one area a sense of, wow, we could kind of reference our better angels. the instincts which we notice around us had their full say. their death threat. most withering racist stuff. he found himself besieged at every corner. one of the 'maize can things if he hadn't been married to this woman, rachel robinson, i'm not sure that jackie could have made it. >> dickerson: want to get to that. first play a clip here. >> pitchers threw at his head. more than once runners sprinting

toward first base spiked robinson with their cleats. and the hard slide by robinson would not go unnoticed by opposing infielders. away from the field, jackie spent little time with his teammates. on the road, he still has to stay at the hotels and took his meals alone. jimmy cannon, writing in the "new york post," called jackie, the loneliest man i've ever seen in sports. >> dickerson: the loneliest man in sport talk about that. >> when this man passed away at age 53 he looks old and stooped like white haired retired carver. it was the load he carried. i'm 62, he was 53. he didn't -- he carried something for so many of us not just african americans, but as he is to say decent whites. people who were concerned with advancing the progress of america. and that's why the story is so important and the as a matter of fact that a lot of us talk the

talk. he actually walked the walk. he got up every day try to make lives better for everyone else that was an amazing accomplishment. >> dickerson: what did carrying all that weight, what kind of character did it require and what did it do? >> we think of him as the guy who just christ like turned the other cheek. in fact he was angry and competitive and patient, as told as african americans, just wait are be patient, be patient. it will all come. it wasn't come. he was pushing and pushing much the turning the other cheek makes it more interesting. i think a film as attempting to say there's much more complicated person than mythology. by the way that person is even more mythological in its status. that has its cost. to have put up with that day after day after day. is incredible burden to bear. >> dickerson: when branch ricky the dodgers club president, brought him on, signed him, his

advice was, get married. >> yeah. dickerson: why? >> he needed somebody. as we all do to get through the dark nights that were going to come. robinson swallowed hard i'm willing to do this if you're willing to take a chance on me. he said. he was in gauged to this remarkable woman, rachel robinson. >> dickerson: talk about her a little bit. her strengths. >> i don't think you could have had jackie robinson without rachel. she was able to provide a kind of safe haven for him. to go out to the ballpark and see what was happening, they didn't have to bring it home. there wasn't a rock that developed there. it's this love story, multi-generational portrait of african american family which you don't often get that crosses extraordinary set of decades of change in the united states in our national pastime in our politics and in race. but it's also intimate story of

two people negotiating very, very complicated times in the course of his professional life. >> dickerson: you talked to president obama and the first lady. so let's take a look at that clip. >> just being able to find that solace and that peace to withstand all the negative energy. it's hard to do that alone. there's nothing more important than family than a real partnership, which is probably what made him such a great man because he had the judgment to find a partner that is true. i think that is a sign of his character. that he chose a woman that was his equal. i don't think he would have had jackie robinson without rachel. >> dickerson: your point about rachel robinson. the first lady and president don't show up in a lot of documentaries. >> they were very generous with their time. but i think what was so clear maybe to them as well as to us

is that here you have four people, two couples, jackie and rachel and the president and the first lady sort of hurdling through different times and space. yet for a moment, they're uniting for a second jackie and rachel and the president and first lady merge, they also seem utterly human. >> dickerson: up with of questions about the process here. what was it like having jackie robinson in your head? >> i find it incredibly moving. it was -- he was a doer not a sayer i spend way too much time talking not doing. he makes me want to make the world better snot just make it better for my own little niche but for others. that is exactly what he wants. very end of the film it's a little bit of downer, he's not sure he's had it made actually in fact. then you think that every april 15th, every single ballplayer puts on his uniform in every stadium in the major leagues it's the only number retired in every stadium. he appeals to the best in us and

that's what makes it just not only great story in sports but great story in american history. in some ways a great human story. >> dickerson: ken burns, thanks very much. very much. we'll be right back in a moment. download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good. we're total heroes. scale on demand with the number one company in cloud infrastructure.

>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. until next week for "face the nation," i'm john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org katie mcginty for u.s. senate, calling her "a champion for working families." the 9th of 10 kids, her dad's union pension and social security made all the difference.

in pennsylvania, mcginty helped implement obamacare and expand coverage. trump and toomey have attacked obamacare and social security. to fight back, president obama wants mcginty in the senate to protect women, families and seniors. vote in the democratic primary, april 26th. mcginty: i'm katie mcginty and i approve this message. there are two democratic visions for regulating wall street. one says it's okay to take millions from big banks and then tell them what to do. my plan -- break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes, and make them pay their fair share. then we can expand health care to all, and provide universal college education. will they like me? no. will they begin to play by the rules if i'm president? you better believe it. i'm bernie sanders and i approve this message.

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