captioning sponsored by cbs are at the site of the second presidential debate two days after a boom shell video rocks the race. >> donald trump says he will never quit after a vulgar video is a surfaces at the "washington post". >> you can do anything. >> key republicans are fleeing the campaign and says he should step aside. >> we will assess the damage with rudy giuliani and as some of hillary clinton's speeches to wall street banks are leaked we will talk to campaign manager robbie muck about how she will handle the fallout. we will ask some missouri voterrers about both issues and see what the cbs battle tracker says and plus we will have plenty of analysis ahead of the big face-off. it is all coming up on "face the

nation" from st. louis. good morning and welcome to "face the nation" from the library of the washington university school of law. i am john dickerson. it has been two days since the video of donald trump's disparaging comments about women surfaced in the "washington post". the reaction has crip it would trump campaign, at least two dozen republicans who had previously supported donald trump now say they will no longer support him, some have gone further and urged him to step aside. trump surrogate and former new york mayor rudy giuliani joins us now from trump tower. mr. mayor, what does donald trump think he did wrong in that video from 2005? >> well, you know, i can't tell you what is in his mind exactly but it is obvious he is apologized for it. he is very embarrassed about it. he is a different man now that he was then having gone through 14 months of a campaign that having gone through it myself convinces you of a lot of things

that are important that that maybe you didn't realize before. i think he is embarrassed from the point of view of his wife and his two daughters and his three granddaughters and certainly not language he ever wants them to hear and sort of embarrassed they will now at least some of them know about it. and i guess like a lot of white house have done something wrong he wishes he hadn't done it and he is asking for forgiveness and i look at what is at stake here and the number of people who voted for him and who have confidence in him who belief me is leading a movement to change washington and his opponent is someone who is more of the same. i think there is a heavyweight on him to, you know, not pull out and run this race to the end. >> dickerson: mr. mayor, how do we know what he is apologizing for if we don't know what he is apologizing for. >> he is apologizing for what he said. he is the apologized for making those terrible remarks and saying i am sorry for having done it.

i don't know how much further he can go and apologize. you know, i am a catholic and you go to confession and you explain your sins to the priest and then he makes you make a firm resolution not to do it again and gives you absolution and he is telling the american people, i sinned, i was wrong. i made terrible mistakes and i am asking for your forgiveness and i am trying -- >> dickerson: -- character. >> i think what it says an his character is that he is a flawed human being and, gosh, under my sort of theology that i spent a lot of time studying when i was a young man, we all are, and he has his set of flaws and i have mine and i guess there are a few perfect people but in my view there only have been one, and that was jesus christ, so maybe -- >> dickerson:. >> maybe people should step back and take a look at the fact we have flawed candidates on both sides. i know the wikileaks revelations

kind of got dwarfed by this but that shows a person who is one person in private and another person in public, a person who fought very, very hard to keep those private, when she was running against bernie sanders because they make app apparent what bernie sanders was saying and she was lying, she lied to the fbi which turns out to be a crime. >> dickerson: mr. mayor, in these remarks, though, donald trump is saying we are all sinnerrers but it is one thing to ask for forgiveness and another thing to be elevated to the office of the presidency, in these remarks donald trump is speaking in quite a jocular terms about sexual assault, about having affairs with married women. mike pence recently said character matters to the presidency and donald trump will bring the high test level of integrity. does that characterization, the highest level of integrity still stand? you know, i don't know. i hate to get nearably, terribly theological, but the reality is that men can change, people can

change. sometimes going through things like this makes you into a much better person. i know donald trump for 28, 29 years, i never heard him talk like this and saw him do a lot of wonderful things for people, including taking people from entry level jobs to the top of his company. i have seen him help people in need, and i have seen a different man in the last year and a half that, than even the donald trump i knew in the past because i see a man who understands now the weight on his shoulders for the people who believe that washington is corrupt, that washington doesn't serve them, that hillary clinton is part of that and has been a part of that for years, and that we need this kind of change. we need someone who can change washington. basically kick everybody out and -- look, even president clinton told us the single biggest thing in the obama administration was crazy, obamacare. and we are going to continue that? >> dickerson: mr. mayor what i hear from republicans, though is

these are the words of a 60-year-old man, not a teenager but this represents something different than they have seen not ten years ago but in the donald trump campaign he doesn't participate with the normal boundaries of things, whether it is about th about the kohn famie talked or a muslim ban, a series of things where donald trump is too volatile politically or temperamentally outside of the normal boundaries and that makes him unqualified for presidency and tha that's why you have peoe taking new steps, condi rice saying enough, donald trump should not be president, she didn't weigh in on the campaign but this is the mind that worries them. >> the reality is there is a great difference between those comments on tapes which were truly reprehensible and we agree with that, including donald trump and some of the battles that have gone on during the campaign and the simple fact is, we have flawed candidates on both sides. hillary clinton has her set of

problems that are equal or worse than donald trump's. i mean. >> are you saying -- >> basically, please let me finish. she fold the fbi that she didn't know that confidential on a sensitive government document meant confidential. now, i was in the justice department for 17 years, that's a lie. just between you and me, if you believe that, i can sell you a brooklyn briej. that's a lie that's what martha stewart went to lie for, violation of -- i can list for you maybe 35 crimes she committed that the fbi and the justice department, i believe, let her off the hook for just because she was hillary clinton, you want someone -- you want someone in the white house who couldn't pass an fbi background check because she was extremely careless with top secret information. so we have flawed candidates on both sides. maybe that is going to force us to get to the issues. >> dickerson: all right, mr. mayor, i am afraid we are out of time here, thanks so much for being with us.

we turn now to hillary clinton's campaign manager, robbie mook, i want to start with the focus group we have later a in the broadcast and we talked about this donald trump video talking about sexual assault, one woman undecided voter her first response is she said the first thing i thought of, isn't bill clinton the same type of man? >> well, first of all, we want this campaign to be about the issues and i think that is what the voters want and i think the video that came out of donald trump was horrifying and unfortunate. look, the clintons had a rough time in their marriage 20 years ago, that was -- at the debate tonight and in in the rest of this campaign we want to focus on the issues, and that is what miller is going to do. >> as voters are trying to figure out the role of presidency, isn't bill clinton and his current character the weigh he behaved, isn't that something they can keep in mind that's analyze this behavior of

donald trump. >> it is spitefulling, spiraling, in is between donald trump and hillary clinton, not between donald trump and bill clinton and that's why we are going to continue to focus on the issues. if we need to discuss the issues that were raised in that video of donald trump that is fine, but the question is, what is hillary clinton's take on that issue, not her husband's. >> dickerson: let's talk about some of hillary clinton's position on the issues, we have had this week some leaks about these speeches that hillary clinton gave to wall street banks. in one of the speeches, she said this. quote, but if everybody is watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals you know then people get a little nervous to say the least, so you need both the public and the private position. isn't that idea that there is a public and a private position what worries voters about hillary clinton? >> well, let's be clear. i think there is a distinction between what goes on in negotiations and what her positions are on the issues and have been on the issues.

let's keep in mind, hillary clinton went to the floor of the nasdaq in 2008 and said that these swaps and derivatives and what was going on with the mortgage the lending market was i don't think and was going to crash the economy and she was right. she called for closing the a interest loophole for some time now. her public position and what she is going to fight for as president are one and the same. >> dickerson: i guess what people would say though she may have done it in public but the tone of these speeches, the easily familiarity with the people in the audience shows that bernie sanders may have had something, he may have been right when he said, you know, she is saying one thing in private and one thing in public, there, the message they are getting is, you don't have to be too worried. >> well, that is not the message at all. and like i said, she went to the floor of the nasdaq and said that what wall street was doing was wrong and bernie sanders has come out and said he has reviewed this information. first of all, which we can't verify right now, so i can't speak to whether any of these documents or e-mails are

actually correct, but regardless, bernie sanders himself has weighed in and said the choice in this election is clear, donald trump cannot become president and we have to elect hillary. >> dickerson: again in this, from the same batch of excerpts from thed speeds on the trance pacific partnership that deal with 11 countries she said in the past gdp sets the gold standard and now against the ttp in the current form but in these speeches she is talking about how it is moving natural the right direction, she says i led the way on this. again we have this situation where there is a public and a private on the issue of trade which is quite important to people. >> well, it is important to understand the context for this. first of all, when she was secretary of state, it was her job to negotiate on this deal. she began that process but she didn't finish it and she certainly wasn't involved in the final language that went out. she had three key things that she said we need to have in any trade deal that it needs to create jobs, it needs to raise

wages in the united states and it needs to be consistent with our security imperatives and trans-pacific agreement didn't meet that language which she was about part of that a final step in the process. but john i think it is important to understand the context of all of this. these commitments were dumped out there by the russian government. the department of homeland security took the unprecedented step of saying this was beyond the shadow of the doubt the russians and theyy did it to help donald trump. they want us bogged down and i can't verify any of these documents. >> dickerson: i will ask you about, donald trump says hillary clinton supports open borders and she said wrong, fact checkers wrong but a quote in here my dream is a hemisphere of common market with open trade and open borders. so she did say it. >> first of all i can't verify these documents but second of all you clipped off the last part of the sentence where she was referring to green energy. >> dickerson: she said some time in the future. >> she said she wants a market where green energy can flow. she was talking about integrating green energy between north and south america but again i don't know that these

are actually true. but if the question is does hillary clinton support throwing open our borders absolutely not and do everything she can to fight to protect the interest of workers in this country, that is actually what she voted against the central american free trade agreement when she was a senator. >> dickerson: we will have to leave it there. we are out of time, thank you so much. and we will be right back. saturday we sat down with a group of st. louis residents who have participated in our battleground tracker poll. we began by asking them what they thought of the trump video and the new clinton speech excerpts. >> dickerson: how many of you know about it or have seen it in. >in? >> so that is everyone. so alex, give me words to describe your reaction to this video. >> disheartening. well, unfortunately, i think they got caught saying things that are probably said a whole lot more often than we know. >> dickerson: thomas. >> it is absolutely disgusting and deplorable. >> it confirms for me he is a

misogynist. >> dickerson:. >> steve you are a possible trump supporter. >> 8 shunt history, 2005 i would hate to think some of the things i have done in my past that could come up in an investigation like that. i think that it does point to his lack of civility, that is concerning. >> i think the comments were very disgusting. i mean nothing trump says makes me -- maybe i could get used to this guy. >> dickerson: christie. >> i think it was disgusting but like beth mentioned i don't think it is surprising. i think it is typical. >> dickerson: melissa. >> i am mixed between feeling it is inappropriate but then i also think of locker room talk where i first heard it, i first thought of well isn't the clinton it is same type of man. >> dickerson: did anybody here have their mind changed about how they are going to vote based on this latest video? >> no. >> dickerson: so essentially for everybody here, this new revelation that is getting a lot of chatter might as well not have happened?

>> no. that's not true at all. this video makes me want to get on facebook a little bit more, knock on some doors. a little bit more. it is about hillary because i think donald trump is the lesser of two evils. but this just pushes that opinion a little bit further. >> dickerson: let me switch to hillary clinton and something that has been in the news with her recently. there were e-mails leaked that had some of the speeches she gave and one of the speeches that she gave to -- on wall street, she was talking about getting things done in washington. and she said if everybody is watching you now, all of the bathroom discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous to say the least. so you need both a public and a private position. charlie, what does that mean to you, that quote? >> i think it is just the reality of kind of how this gets made is that you will have the public statements and the public policy positions, but there has to be room for negotiation as

well. >> dickerson: thomas, you are shaking your head. >> those private conversations when you are not being transparent with the public is just a form of lying and is a tool for the corruption. frankly, i think if hillary clinton were to do everything that she has said shp would do in the campaign, really fighting climate change, really fighting against money in politics, she would 100 percent have my vote. but it is what she says behind closed doors that now has been officially released that i don't trust her to do that. i fall short from calling her a liar because that implies she has an intent to bring harm to people. i think she says what she thinks people want to hear. >> dickerson: are you going the watch the debate? >> yes. what are you looking for the debate from any of the candidates? >> well, i think i am going to say a little uncomfortable given the video that was just released

of video, shaking trump's hand and, you know, debate with him. >> dickerson: explain a little bit more why you feel uncomfortable about her shaking his hand. >> well, because what he says about women. i can't respect a man like that. >> dickerson: do you think the debate is going to change your mind at all in this election? is anybody's mind maybe going to be changed by what they say? four of you. okay. why don't we hear from you first, rene. >> it depends on how hillary addresses some issues about her character, her trustworthiness. she needs to tell the american people why we can trust her, given her track record with fudging the truth. >> as far as debates go, i think i am just looking to see who fails more, not who comes out ahead. >> dickerson: patrick, we are in a library so let's imagine we are here 20 years from now and a book about 2016, how does the story end?

>> wow. to be continued. is it a hopeless -- >> where is the shelf? is it in horror stories or the bright uplifting -- >> there are a lot of awful things that have come out of this election. there are awful things may have made this country face truths it didn't want to face, like ultimately that we face those truths it is a good thing and hopefully in the next 20 years whether he confront them and overcome them. >> what gives me hope is what a lot of people laugh and make fun of. what gives me hope is god is in control and another thing that gives me great hope is i listen to many christian programs and all over our nation they are praying for our nation, and i believe god answers prayer. >> dickerson: michael how does the story end? >> i don't know. one of the things that have given me hope is the bernie

sanders campaign and the fact that a lot of younger people are getting involved in politics, and hopefully will continue to pay attention to this. >> dickerson: all right. we are going to hend to the exit here. you are in the car at the side of the road and your car has broken down, who do you want to drive by, hillary or donald trump? hillary clinton first. that is three hands. four hand. five hands. donald trump? melissa, why do you want donald trump to stomp and not hillary clinton? >> well, he clearly likes women. so i think he would feel bad for a woman who needed help. i mean, obviously i would help myself but it would give me a chance to choose. i think he would be a little bit more giving with as far as paying for a tow truck or i don't think he would know how to change a tire or given how to pop a hood of a car but i think he would be a little bit more

giving with money to help you on your way. >> dickerson: we will have a lot more of our focus group on our website, "face the nation".com, and we have a lot more "face the nation" coming up so stay with us. who creates software. they all have insurance crafted personally for them. not just coverage, craftsmanship. not just insured. chubb insured.

and we are back with some new battleground tracker polling in ohio hillary is up four points over donald trust, 46 percent to 42 percent. pennsylvania is also looking like clinton country. ? se up eight points there. in wisconsin, clinton leads by four percentage points, 43 percent to 39 percent, cbs news election director anthony ian an. >> anthony salvanto joins us, right after the tracker polls we asked folks what did you think of the tape, have you heard about it? >> everybody had heard about it, it reminds you how fast things get around these days, but the reaction was divided, it was mixed. a known, of known trump supporters there was no change in how they viewed donald trump.

90 participant of them said it would not change their views than context we have seen things like this before throughout the year. they have said they have conceded yes he says controversial things but they are voting for him for other reasons, to change washington, et cetera. the important thing, john, is for the people who are not currently supporting him, for them, and particularly among women, they are more likely to say that they felt the tape, seeing the tape made them think worse of donald trump. >> dickerson: so one of his challenges, we had a floor and this suggested an ironclad floor, but the question is finding those reluctant republicans have you have called them, those who should be in his coalition but think he is too risky and women crucial to that point, and anything else in the findings about women that give us a sense of how difficult it will be for him? >> yes. he was already facing large gender gaps, big differences between how men and women vote and in particular, college educated women, you find them, you know, very numerous, in the

-- in a statewide pennsylvania, for example, where you are looking at now 20-point swings between how republicans typically do with that group and where hillary is now getting so many more of them. so donald trump needs to move some of those voters over, otherwise it is not just an argument problem, it becomes a math problem for him. >> dickerson: out of the polie ask you about we heard a lot of fantasy scenarios drop donald trust and mike pence can run to the top of the ticket. how possible is that? >> not very, you know, first of all, this is a stated a administrative issue, state by state, ballots have been printed and sent out, some early voting is coming back already, so donald trump's they name is on those ballots, and you also have to look at party rules. the party rules are not clear that a party can just replace a candidate wholesale when he is still alive and wants to run, anyway, so, you know, it is not only state by state, but it is also administrative. it is pretty fair to say donald trump's name will be on the

ballot. >> dickerson: right. and you have said in your polling you find that floor of trump voters who are still with him, and they are not going to cotton to have the elites in washington trying to get rid of their man for someone else. all right. anthony thanks so much for being with us. and we will be right back in a and we will be right back in a moment. even mer-mutts. (1940s aqua music) (burke) and we covered it, february third, twenty-sixteen. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

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nation". i am john dickerson. here in the law library at washington university in st. louis. site of tonight's second president column debate. joining us now is cbs this morning anchor norah o'donnell, our friend bob schieffer, who moderated three presidential debates, plus our cbs news correspondents who have been on the campaign trail for well over a year now, nancy cordes who covers hillary clinton and major garrett who is on the trump campaign. major, i want to start with you. >> sure. >> dickerson: where to begin? how are things going inside the trump campaign? >> there is, there is a tremendous amount of stress, that is quite obvious, trump is getting a request from mike pence's running mate, be more contrite. apologize too the country more emphatically, more believably, more persuasively about what you have done, what you have said, what the country has seen. at the same time, there are other advisors who are saying,

yes doors that but then smash mouth hillary clinton and bill clinton about bill clinton's history and this debate is your only available play, go as hard as you can on that, say what you said matters but what bill clinton did or is alleged to have done matters more, and so donald trump finds himself in this vice like pressure from his running mates who wants him to be contrite and mellow and other advisors who want to bring the two-by-four and take it straight into the debate. >> dickerson: in twitter already today a little bit of the two-by-four action as he tweets and sends out some of the harder line, nancy, what is the clinton team doing in this, yet another turn in the story? >> well, thought about hillary clinton come out yesterday and then decided why scwander the opportunity to have her first reaction be tonight on the debate stage before millions of people standing right there next to donald trump so we are told she will address it early on in the debate but also decided, you know, why distract from a parade of republicans unendorsing their own nominee? beyond that, they are redrawing

the battleground map a to include kansas and nebraska, they think that the battlegrounds math will stay essentially where it is, which is find fine, because she has a path to 270 just within that map. so strategically, they say they aren't changing much, although obviously this was great news for them. >> dickerson: 270 being a magic number on the electorial college, you have been on the phone dialing around, bob, what have you heard a? >> well, i can't find a single republican, i have talked to probably 1 12 republican senatos yesterday or their representatives. i couldn't find a single one who now thinks they are going to win. they were saying things like look we realized a couple of weeks ago that we were not going to win, but now we may win -- we may lose by historic proportions something that will, one person said to me yesterday that could affect the republican party for generations to come.

i am not sure the republican party is going to survive this. one republican party chair said there was a mushroom cloud outside of the window after this. norah what did you think of rudy giuliani's attempt to defend donald trump? he basically said this is a long time ago and learned a lot on the campaign trail. can you learn something on the campaign trail that undoes the damage of these remarks? >> well, rudy giuliani was on because the chairman of the republican national committee reince priebus decided he would not come on. and i think that is telling as one top republican said to he we will see the fastest cut and run in american political history. and, bob, alluded to that. look at the state of ohio no republican has won the presidency without ohio, donald trump may have won ohio on the coattails of rob portman the senator who has done great organizing, he has unendorsed him in that state but republican national committee says pause or stop its operations to help donald trump. donald trump department have much of a ground game anywhere. >> dickerson: no ground game. >> he was relying on the republican national committee. >> dickerson: entirely.

a governor all of that disgusting language, you now have a party that has abandoned the presidential nominee and that is historic, and it could lead to a landslide election. >> dickerson: and the ground game being those people who knock on the doors, get the people to the polls, that kind of thing. >> and the disconnect between the grass roots trump supporters who are not all republicans and not always been regular participants in presidential election and the fund raisers for the party and the party leadership is again cracked wide open. by this. because they are -- the grass root trump supporters largely, anecdotal conversations i had all weekend are going to ride this out because they still believe that trump is their best option to change the system and attack what bothers them most about politics, but the fund raisers, the donors, and the republicans who have to be on the ballot themselves all walking away. >> we know that republican candidates like portman and kelly ayotte in new hampshire are in a terrible position, because on one hand they have angered all of those trump true believers who might say, you

know, i am not going to vote for you. they decided to let some republicans just stay home because they told them now, i can't support the nominee, maybe you shouldn't either, and the deposition are going to hit them over the head between now and election day on, okay, so this is what made you decide to abandon donald trump? it wasn't what he said about members cans, it wasn't what he said about women in in campaign, it is something he said 11 years ago, this is political ex-peed expedience. >> dickerson: i mean think about this his own running mate refused to campaign for him on the eve of this debate and with less than a month to go. >> >> dickerson: norah, another, perhaps there are players out there who still haven't, he was disinvited from paul ryan's wisconsin, unity event that major talked about that was put together by reince priebus, the republican chairman of the party. disinvited by the house speaker be 2 house speaker has not moved to the problem portman position or the kelly ayotte position which is i am not going to voee for him.

is he the -- i mean, there is a conference call for the house republicans on monday, wha whato you think paul ryan, what do you think he does? >> well, this isn't just a, this is a conscience call for many people and seeing an emerging split in the republican party not just denouncing but what does it do or take a stronger stand and say we can't elect this person, let's write in some of the other people, such as rob portman as i mentioned earlier has said. i think it is a real struggle for the speaker of the house, paul ryan who was heckled at that appearance yesterday by trump supporters but the leadership of the party, that has to look beyond this election to the future of the party, i think it is essential in american democracy you have two strong political parties. they are a check on one another and at this point we don't have two strong political parties. and tha that is necessary for a strong government a in a democracy. >> dickerson: bob, you moderated these debates so what if you were on the deck tonight and about to come up or had to

come up with questions on these candidates, what would you ask? >> , you know, i think i would ask about the elephant in the room and i think, i guess what i would say would be this. mr. trump, if some man did to your daughters what you were talking about in that debate -- in that tape, would you think that was cool? would you be okay with that? >> i would watch that answer. >> and the question is, this is a town hall debate. would there be a question like this in? and there probably will be. >> yes. because this language goes beyond boys being boys. this is pigs being pigs. and i think that it is not a distraction. it is an issue. >> but there are some democrats that hillary clinton will overplay her hand and go after him too hard. they say look he is digging a hole by himself. republicans are helping him.

stay out of the way. they say that tim kaine was more aggressive that he needed to be last week and so they are a little bit worried that the clinton campaign will see this as such a huge opportunity that it will go further than it needs to. >> there are two unknowns one we will get the answer to tonight and one we may never get an answer to. many republicans bailed out yesterday because they got the sense there is more coming on donald trump that this is not the only revelation that will carry with it a tech tonic plate changing .. bit possess explosiveness and they don't want to be a part of it and round 2 of that. that's the unknown we don't know about that. the other is tonight. the conference call with house republicans tomorrow, because speaker ryan was persuaded by those in the rank and file, give him a chance in debate number 2, let's all assess after that. so what trump does or doesn't do tonight will have a great deal to say about how resilient the elected republican house support for him, rank and file and

leadership remains. >> dickerson: a lot riding on the debate tonight. >> an enormous riding on the debate and of course the format, along with these charges, i mean, charges a of what some are calling sexual assault, biden says this the amounts to sexual assault at the time you have a male nominee and a female nominee on the stage, they are, with podiums, chairs where they can sit down and where they can approach audience members, it adds, body language becomes important in this type of debate. i mean, going back and reading about town hall debates and looking at the past ones, in 1992 with bill clinton who first proposed this type of debate, a town hall debate and his advisors were chopped george h.w. bush agreed to it because he thought he could emote better and the capture audience members attention better. >> dickerson: quickly what happens if donald trump goes the second route and brings up bill clinton and his character flaws and we get into that kind of a fight? what is hillary -- >> the, you know, hillary has been planning and preparing forr for weeks because after the

first debate he might go there, he told us, the clinton campaign says that would be disastrous for donald trump. hillary clinton is the one running, not bill clinton that is like blaming they lan i can't trump for what donald trump said in the leaked audio, so they don't think that is going to be persuasive and they think it might actually engender for sympathy for hillary clinton and you have to know she has got a pretty well planned response. >> dickerson: all right. so great to be with you. thanks for being here. and we will now have a second panel, join us at 9:00 p.m. eastern, 6:00 p.m. pacific. and we will be back in a moment.

>> dickerson: and tha at the debate haul here in washington university here this morning, the site of today's main event. now behinds the scenes is joining us now for more insights into the drama are susan page, washington bureau chief of u.s.a. today, jamelle bouie who is the chief political correspondent for slate mag a seen and cbs news political analyst, peggy noonan, columnist for the washington journal and cbs contribute for and john heilemann, comanaging editor of bloomberg politics. peggy, i will start with you. so rudy giuliani said donald trump could have a saint augustine moment, change radically after this event and be a totally different man. >> after this trauma of the

release of the 11-year-old tape. well, i know you spoke to him of the city of god and the city of man, in this world all miracles are possible. people do change their nature and change their character. i am not sure what rudy giuliani was referring to as the reason there might be a change of nature or character. it seems to me mr. trump might speak of his essential nature and what all of that stuff is this evening. >> dickerson: yes. that's a tall order. >> yes. >> dickerson: john, what could donald trump have learned over the last year that taught him that saying, sort of in a lighthearted way it was fun to assault women. i am not sure how the two things are connected. >> i think if we are speaking in hypotheticals now, there is a hypothetical miracle that could occur, st. augustine, the more probable hypothetical on the basis of everything we have seen from donald trump's first debate performances, the interviews he

has given, the last debate performance, and how he reacted after the debate performance and continuing to attack machado, i think the more plausible hypothetical is he learned nothing and that his performance tonight will be much less st. augustine than something coarser to the things that got him into so much trouble so far on the basis of history there is no reason to think that we will see a new donald trump, none. there is no reason. i am not saying we won't but there is no reason to think we will. >> dickerson: susan, what do you think about this, the departures in the republican party that started to happen yesterday that seemed to be kind of rolling. again people who aren't just saying it ising,tsk, we have never seen anything like this in modern republican. the republican party chairman reince priebus released a statement, the highest paul ryan disinvited to ka share a stage with him.

wisconsin, are withdrawing their endorsement of him. this is a political apocalypse and it is sort of -- we have had october surprises before, we have never had something like this in which a candidate survived and went on to win the election. >> dickerson: there have been a lot of people say, well there have been a lot of these moments donald trump has had and people thought he was in trouble and nothing happens. is this the same situation or -- >> i don't think this is the same precisely because so many republican leaders leaving his camp. i think this is a signal to voters this is very different and i think there is a real possibility that republicans are courting a kind of triple undervote, that demoralized republicans, republicans who don't vote down ballot because they are angry at the party, most republicans still think, still want trump at the top of the ticket and then also, you know, just, that is a double undervote. i think what is interesting about all of this is that this is the moment which is driving

so many republicans away. you know, we have witness ford past year a campaign whose central message no the country was if you elect me i will use the power to suppress mexican immigrants, and muslim americans and stop and frisk. it is not flattering about the republican party it is beginning to leave trump when the comment finally hits a group of voters that actually they rely on to win elections. >> dickerson: peggy, i was talking to a senior republican yesterday who kind of brought up this point, with i have, they were thinking about whether to leave donald trump, the worry was, if i leave now, why didn't i leave when his announcement speech was about members cans being rapists and on down the line? they had trouble explaining why this was the thing that was the straw that broke the camel's back and previous ones haven't been. >> yes. maybe. it just seems to me this overwhelming story, i agree with

susan so much. this is a devastating moment for trump. it is not just -- it is not as if he was going up, up, up and something bad happens and he plummets he had been going down and down, now something bad happens. we are a 47, 47 country, more or less. the trump voters in your focus group, more or less said, this isn't going to change anything for us, in a funny way, nobody is as until lucianed about their candidate as donald trump supporters. they had no illusions about him so it is not as if this tells them anything they didn't know but it will hurt trump with a few of them because nobody likes proof that your fundamental nature is low. i think the proof part of it was hurtful, but still at the end of the day, this doesn't help trump. it hurts him very seriously and every republican i have talked to in the last few days does think it is over. >> john, i think part of your

answer is in the form of your question, and your opening comment about this, donald trump is engaged in the racist company phobic but he never condoned and in fact practiced a crime. sexual assault is the phrase you used and appropriately used and think for a lot of republicans and a lot of people, that is the thing that is going on. not to excuse him of his previous rhetoric but the thing you can't argue for for many republicans and obviously many democrats is for a nominee who seems to be saying, sexual assault is okay and i have been involved in it myself and sort of boastful about it. that is a different -- that that is a rubicon that has been crossed. i do think it is striking the same morning this came out on friday, donald trump also said, in a statement that he believed central -- were guilty and presumably thinks they should have been executed and that to me is also at a level beyond the pail pale. >> the only thing that said amount that is joh john mechanic

kaine a. >> dickerson: because they were held innocent. we will take a short break and be right back with more "face the nation" from st. louis. .

>> dickerson: and we are back with our panel, susan, you were with mike pence on thursday. where do you think he is on all of this? >> i spent the day with him as he was on a bus tour across pennsylvania. he denounced hillary clinton, you might expect that and i said, you know, there are questions about donald trump's integrity too and he defended donald trump to the little, a goodman, a family man. and i just wonder what trump's running mate would say today if he was sit down for that interview. >> dickerson: yes, he says he has the highest integrity. john, what do you think about the fantasies about there about trump disappearing from the ticket and pence running, that is what portman said, i am -- >> is any of this being discussed? >> i think it is being discussed actively and major made the point earlier we will have to wait to see what happens in the debate performance tonight, not that i think it will change the ultimate electorial dynamics of where trump is relative to the better, what happens on monday, depending on how he performs. i think the party leaders,

elected, everyone has no influence whether he stays in the race. i think there is one set of people who have influence over him, his family, and if this turns into a total catabolism as it seems to be, the trump brand, the family name, the financial implications of that, those kids, ivanka and jarrod, her husband jarrod, and eric trump, tiffany all of them have a lot just talking pure dollars and cents here they have a lot at stake in what happens to donald trump and the family name. i think they are the only ones who may be able to influence him to get out, the only ones i am not sure they will, but the only ones who can influence him. >> tonight could be a disaster for trump in part because there is no sense that he has been practicing working on what he is going to do. i mean all the reports are, he has been resisting all of that. this is going to be a hard a night for him. it is in the round. some questioner will properly bring up the mess of the past few days, but as for fantasies about removing him from the top

of the ticket, i have to tell you, 11 states are already voting in early voting. sticks ballots, eight more join that number by this wednesday. >> dickerson: right. >> when you have 19 states that are already voting, i don't see how you change your nominee. >> i would add to that fact, again, most republican voters want trump at the top of the i cannot. i think the idea that republican leaders could somehow get trump off the top of the ticket, while essentially sticking their fingers in, fingers in the eyes of half of the voters, if they y are trying to avoid a disaster or civil war that is a disaster and civil war. >> dickerson: let's switch to hillary clinton quickly, these excerpts of her speeches, the ones they have been trying to keep under lock and key finally got out. there is a difference between hillary clinton in public and private. isn't that her underlying challenge? >> it is. and you heard in your focus group how little affection even some of the clinton voters had for her. so this -- and you think we would be talking about that tonight or today and you think we would be talking about bill

clinton, the is a situation saying the affordable care act is crazy but we are not because she had this great gift of donald trump. >> dickerson: i am struck how much more passion has in the focus group. in is people of all position. more passion when they talked a about hillary clinton and her down side and donald trump they were letting off the hook saying this is locker room behavior. >> i think this gets to what is true, not just the voters but a cross of how we as a country, versus donald trump is that i think we look, people look at hillary clinton and say, she could be a president until we approach her and talk about her and criticize her as if she could be a president. i think really at face a lot of people don't really believe that donald trump could ever have won. and as a result, there is a willingness to kind of look past, look past things that are, you know, plainly disqualifying and plainly offensive because, again, this is just a con. >> dickerson: john, how damage is the clinton excerpts that are now out. >> ? the context they have been

released not that damaging damaging, one thing we are looking past on both sides is that there are going to be worst donald trump tapes between now and election day and probably worse hillary clinton e-mails between now and election day. i don't know what electoral results it will be but there will be a hailstorm before we get to november 8th and i think four weeks out and these are the things being leaked, just imagine what happens next week and the week after and the week after that, because you don't drop your heaviest shoes a month away from election day. >> and once again the debate is entirely about things, they are not about voters and their life, the entirely about the character a of the candidates and their lives a. >> dickerson: we will have a hailstorm of shoes from john heilemann. i want to thank our panel. we will be right back in a moment. >> it's not something you do now and then.

or when it's convenient.

>> dickerson: that's it for us today. i hope you will join me, along with norah o'donnell, gayle king and bob schieffer tonight for our live coverage of the second presidential debate here in st. louis at the 9:00 p.m. eastern right after "60 minutes", we want to thank washington university school of law for hosting us. we will be back in the other washington next sunday, until then for "face the nation", i am john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

♪ >> you are looking liver in detroit where the eagles will be officially off their bye week and taking on the lions, one in three lions, welcome to toyota sunday kickoff. don bell on this sunday fun day and lesley van arsdall is in detroit