captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today on "face the nation," we'll talk to both vice president, candidates as the tone of campaign 2016 hits rock bottom. with just over three weeks to go until election day, at least nine women have accused donald trump of making unwanted advances, some charging outright assault. and the fallout has sent trump enter a flurry of counter-punches. >> all stories, all made up, lies. lies. no witnesses, no nothing, all big lies. it's a rigged system. >> dickerson: hillary clinton faces an avalanche of e-mails hacked from her campaign chairman that shows the behind-the-scenes maneuvering of a presidential campaign. both mike pence and tim kaine will join us. then we'll go in-depth on both stories.

the conservatives will talk about the state of their movement as trump causes a rift in the republican party. and veteran journalists join us to talk about hacked e-mails and the way washington works. plus our new battleground tracker poll shows a big shift among women voters. it's all coming up on "face the nation." good morning and welcome to "face the nation." i'm john dickerson. our new battleground tracker shows a dramatic shift in key 13 states we're watching here at cbs news. the candidates were tied last month. now hillary clinton is ahead, 46% to 40% over donald trump. that jump is due to gains from women voters. clinton has gone from a five-point edge in september to a 15-point advantage now. this following a videotape where trump boasts about groping women and allegations this week from nine women that he did just that over the last 35 years. we'll hear from both vice presidential candidates starting with donald trump's running mate, indian that governor mike

pence who is campaigning in tampa. welcoming, governor. i want to start with these allegations. >> thank you, john. >> dickerson: you have the tape from last week. now nine women have come forward basically claiming donald trump behaved just as he said in private. shouldn't voters at least pay attention to this and try to figure this out? are they crazy to think there might be not be something there? >> well, i think donald trump did what he needed to do last weekend. you know, i spoke out about my concern about the 11-year-old video that came forward. he went before the american people and said he apologized to his family and he apologized to the people of this country and said he was embarrassed about what he said 1 1 years ago. he made it clear it was just talk, not action. in the days that followed i know there have been unsubstantiated allegations that have been made, but donald trump has made it clear that he categorically denies those allegations, and we're going to continue to focus this campaign on frankly where the people of this country are

focused, john. over the course of this last week and in the midst of all of these issues swirling in the national media, i can tell you the crowds that i saw here in florida other r -- over the last several day, the crowds gathered in new hampshire and maine last night, are focused on a stronger america at home and abroad, about reversing a court that's set parts of the world spinning apart under the foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama and frankly the policies that have stifled the american economy, particularly as it pertains to hillary clinton. donald trump has a message that is enlivening, and it is resonating with people all across this country. and we're going the fight the next 23 days to carry it all the way through election day. >> dickerson: let me ask you this, governor: you've spoken a lot about character as a candidate, not relative to each other but relative to a standard. in 1992 bill clinton said, "i feel your pain." he spoke for them. they said that was what's

important, not these character questions. it sounds like you're making the same case for donald trump. >> not. so bill clinton didn't just talk about doing things. he did them. it took a while to find all that out. he was under oath in 1998 and he finally came clean on having taken advantage of a 23-year-old intern at the white house name monica lewinsky in the most appalling behavior by an american president in the history of this country. look, donald trump has made it very clear that he deeply regrets those words that he used 11 years ago, that they don't represent who he is, and that he haz-cat goreically denied these unsubstantiated allegations. it's really remarkable, though, john, is in a week where you have this series of unsubstantiated allegations, and of course there is competing evidence that's coming out regarding these particular incidents, we have an avalanche of hard evidence about hillary clinton's years as secretary of state and the clinton foundation. we found out this week because

of another network's efforts that while she was secretary of state, hillary clinton, her team directed contracts for the reconstruction of haiti after the earthquake to friends of the clintons. this is exactly the kind of political favoritism that she said wasn't happening. >> dickerson: i want to ask you about your candidate, governor. >> it's been largely ignored by this network and the mainstream media and 2 american people see right through it. >> dickerson: let me ask you about your candidate. he's responded to these allegations using the word, "sick, horrible, phony," and he says that one of the women would not be his first choice. one of the claims you're making about hillary clinton is the way she treated bill clinton's accusers. donald trump is treating these accusers pretty roughly himself. >> donald trump has made it clear that he categorically denies --. >> dickerson: but what about the treatment of these people coming forward? >> well, but... >> dickerson: governor? >> what about calling half of

our supporters a basket of deplorables. >> dickerson: so it's okay if hillary clinton does it? do two wrongs make a right? >> they came out with the most anti-catholic, anti-religious rhetoric that i've ever seen in political life. the reason you see the resilience in our numbers around the country, the reason you see such determination of the american people is frankly people see an overwhelming bias in the national media, a willful ignorance about an avalanche of hard evidence about hillary clinton and the clinton foundation and her years as secretary of state, and they end up putting above the fold and leading the news with these unconfirmed, unsubstantiated allegations. i think it's... it frankly is why we're going to continue to fight every single day between now and election day to change the direction of this country. the american people feel like in a very real sense that the democratic party and many of you in the media are working

together to prevent the kind of change the american people long to see of a stronger and more prosperous america, and we're going the fight our way all the way to election day. >> dickerson: i appreciate that, governor. i'm trying to deal with what your candidate is saying on the stump in real-time right. now another thing he's saying is the election is rigged. my question is: is that a responsible thing for a candidate to say? >> well, i think what donald trump is talking about is, frankly, what appears to be the monolithic support of the national media for hillary clinton's campaign. their willful ignorance about the avalanche of hard evidence, not allegations, john, but hard evidence now coming out in these e-mails of collusion and pay-for-play politics. the american people are just tired of it. >> dickerson: governor -- >> the outcome of this election, john, let me be very clear, donald trump said in the first debate that we'll respect the will of the american people in this election, the peaceful transfer of power is a hallmark of american history, and elections get really tough.

but the american people are getting awful tired of this two-on-one fight with many of you in the national media doing half of hillary clinton's work for her every day. all we're asking for is whatever you want to report about our campaign, let's get out, there let's let the facts speak for themselves. but let's get before the american people this avalanche of e-mails that is confirming pay-to-play politics and outright corruption. >> dickerson: before we run out of time, governor, let me ask you a question, though. when donald trump talks about a rigged election, here's the way one of his supporters hears that. this is a quote from "the boston globe" from a trump supporter, "i'm going to go right up behind them -- talking about being at polling places donald trump has encouraged his supporters to watch the places -- "i'll do everything legally. i want to see if they're accountable. i'm not going to do anything illegal. i'm going to make them a little bitner vows." that's what they're hearing about rigged elections. do you condone that behavior? >> certainly not.

i don't think any american should ever attempt to make any other american nervous in the exercise of their franchise to vote. but look, states like my state of indiana manage our election process, poll watching is a part of that process, and it's a message i've delivered around this country. people that are concerned about this election and about us preserving the one person, one vote that's at the very center of our american democracy should become involved, should volunteer at their neighborhood polling place. that's how we ensure the accountability. frankly, that's how we protect the integrity of the vote for republicans, democrats, independents, everyone across the spectrum is served when we ensure that we have free and honest elections. >> dickerson: okay, governor, thanks so much. we've run out of time. governor mike pence. >> thank you, john. >> dickerson: and now to the other candidate for vice president, virginia senator tim kaine who joins us from miami. senator, you and your campaign have talked about these hacked e-mails of clinton campaign

chairman john podesta as coming from the influence or having the influence of the russian government. if secretary clinton were president, what would she do to retaliate against the russians? >> well, i have not talked with hillary about this, but there does need to be a consequence. when a foreign nation tries to destabilize an american election, which is what donald trump encouraged back in late july, he said, "hey, russia, go see if you can cyber hack and find things that will help me win," but when a foreign government tries to do this, there has to be a consequence. there will be time for figuring what that consequence is, but you can't let i got unchallenged, because if you do, you could encourage more of it. >> dickerson: do you see any link between the trump campaign and these disclosures that have come out? >> i can't discern any direct link except for donald trump's encouragement. i think it was during the week of the convention in philadelphia, donald trump took a stage and he basically said, hey, i would encourage cyber hackers, russia, see if you can find information on hillary

clinton that will help me win. you know, that was shocking. later when he was challenged about it, he said, well, i was just being sarcastic. i don't think it's funny when you have a nation like russia that has engaged in activity to destabilize elections in countries, ukraine, estonia, they've engaged in that activity, and somebody running to be president of the united states shouldn't be encouraging another nation to cyber hack the u.s. >> dickerson: when you look at these e-mails and the attacks, the cache of e-mail, there's a lot of effort to tell the voters a different story than what hillary clinton's apparent position is on issues from trade to the xl pipeline, efforts to dodge using a word from the e-mail on the question of the e-mail server. don't voters have a right to get the straight story from a candidate who is asking to be given so much power? >> well, i think you can ask the people involved in any of the e-mails what they think about the topics. john, here's something that we do have to just state very plainly: not only are these

e-mails an effort by wikileaks and russia to try to destabilize our election, but second, you can't assume that they're all accurate. one of the e-mails that came up this week referred to me. it was completely inaccurate, and i don't know whether it was inaccurate because the sender didn't know what he or she was talking about or it had been doctored, but anybody who is going to try to cyber attack and then try to destabilize an election, you can't trust that they're going to maintain scrupulous honesty about the content of what they're dumping out for the world to see. >> dickerson: when people look at the wikileaks e-mails, is it the standard of the conversations we should expect from the clinton administration? >> well, look, i'm not spending a lot of time looking at them for the reason that i stated earlier. i don't even assume they're all accurate. >> dickerson: let me ask you this: senator, you and others in the campaign have compared this to watergate and said the trump campaign shouldn't be making hay about these hacked e-mail, which are essentially stolen, but the clinton made a lot of hay

without donald trump's tax return, which was disclosed without his knowledge or willingness. why are you making hay of that but not of this? >> they choose how the run the campaign. if they want the make hay they can, but here's one thing we ought to demand of donald trump, every time this comes up that these wikileaks russia documents are connected to russia, he is the only one standing on the stage to defend russia. well, we don't know that russia was involved. it might be a big guy sitting in his parents' basement. over and over again he is defending russia on this as if russia is involved even though the director of national intelligence and justice department and f.b.i. officials have connected russia to these attacks. why does donald trump keep going out of his way to defend russia on this? he should condemn russia. in fact, it's even been reported that he's received intelligence assessments laying these attacks at russia's feet, but for some reason he seems to want to

defend vladimir putin. i don't get it. he can make hay of whatever he wants to, but i think he ought to, instead of making weird claims that our election is rigged and challenging the integrity of the american electoral process, he should be standing up against people who are trying to destabilize our elections. >> dickerson: but the clinton campaign is saying the trump campaign is doing something wrong by talking about this, and if that's the case, then were you wrong to be talking about his leaked tax returns? >> no, because, look, i'm not saying trump is wrong to be talking about this. that's not me and i don't know that we're really saying that. donald trump made a promise not voters in 2014, if i run i'm going to release my tax returns. secondly, as you know, that is the precedent for all in the modern era to release them. "the new york times" has a story that has some information about donald trump's taxes, and we think the information essentially confirms what donald trump himself said on a debate stage. when hillary clinton said you

probably don't pay taxes, donald trump said, "yeah, that makes me smart." there are a whole lot of us out here that pay taxes to support our military and to support our veteran, and we don't like being called stupid by a guy like donald trump who brags about not paying taxes and stiffing our troops and stiffing veterans. >> dickerson: with respect to donald trump and these accusations about his behavior, you mentioned it shows a pattern of behavior on donald trump's part, but that's what democrats defended against with bill clinton in 1992. republicans say these allegations represent a pattern of behavior and he shouldn't with president. if it was good enough to defend bill clinton, why isn't that a good enough defense for donald trump? >> well, first, bill clinton is not on the ballot. this is a race between donald trump and hillary clinton. and second, look, i don't reach a conclusion about any particular allegation. but you do have to look at donald trump's own words and actions. the tape that came out two fridays ago that kind of created this bombshell was not somebody else saying something about

donald trump. it was donald trump telling everybody, this is the way i treat women. and then in the debate stage last sunday, he was asked point blank, did you act in accord with what you said, and he didn't want to answer that question. he tried to avoid it a couple time, but anderson cooper pinned him down, and he looked at the camera and he said, no, i never acted that way. i talked about it, i never did it. well, you know, when you look america in the face and say, that then suddenly people are coming up here, there, all over the country saying, no, actually, that is the way donald trump acts, and it shouldn't be surprising given the way he's talked about women from the beginning of the campaign and throughout his career and frankly the way he's talked about others, as well. people can reach their own conclusion about it. but when somebody's actions are so closely connected to how he says he acts, i think people will draw the conclusion that donald trump's got a real problem in this area. >> dickerson: senator, one other question about e-mail. there's been some reports you've

been e-mailing hillary clinton during the campaign and she knew about various things. why given all the hacking that's going on would anybody communicate by e-mail? >> you know, that's a really good question, john. i think all of us, until i can find a carrier pigeon that's really fast, you know, we've got to communicate, and we're not always together in person, so sometimes we talk by phone. and sometimes we'll. but i think we're all very mindful of the fact that our e-mails could be displayed in an inaccurate or highly altered version for the world to see. we act accordingly in what we decide to send. >> dickerson: senator kaine cane, thanks for being with us. >> all right. thanks a lot. >> dickerson: the speaker of the house won't defend donald trump. the senate majority leader won't mention his name. what's happening to the republican party? we'll talk about that in one we'll talk about that in one minute. medicine. mm control i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms.

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dr. russell moore is president of the ethics and religious liberty commission of the southern baptist convention. alfonso aguilar is the president of the latino partnership for conservative principles. tammy bruce is a radio talk show host and a fox news contributor and matt schlapp is the chairman of the american conservative union. tammy, i want to start with you. >> sure. >> dickerson: let's diagnose, we're all going to diagnose the moment or you all are going to diagnose the moment. what's the state of the conservative movement by the republican party? >> you know, those two are very different these days, are aren't they? i'm very much a conservative, but i'm an independent voter. donald trump is the nominee for a reason, because of the failure of the republican party to stop the destruction of the country by the democrats. i can tell you that 3.7 million women have been pushed into poverty since barack obama became president according to the c.e.o. of gallup. about 25 million economic lives have been destroyed. 48% of americans have a full-time job. that is the lowest since 1983. so when you look at the republicans and what

conservatives have expected from the republican party is to push back on issues and policies and laws that destroy people's lives. they have not done that. and what they're reaping now from i think the beginning of the tea party let's say in 2009 is a reaction and a rejection by the american people. they ignored it then. they should have embraced it. they ignored it in '10, '14. they're ignoring it now. donald trump is the result of being ignored, and of the american people wanting people's lives to get better and for the actual conservative ideal of economic freedom to prevail, which is the only thing that will save our lives. >> dickerson: alphonso, your diagnosis? >> i agree partly with that. i think that... i would-be -- i wouldn't overstate the impact of donald trump in terms of his impact in the conservative movement. the differences that i think tammy was talking about predate donald trump. and i think we can oversimplify it and say on the one hand we have an establishment that's too

worried about principle, too tied to big interests, and then good conservatives who care deeply about the issues are too rigid sometimes, and in terms of the economy and income inequality and the wounds that americans are facing, they're too quick to blame trade and immigration. and that's a problem. but the good news is that between those two extreme, there are many republicans who i think after this election can steer the party and the movement in the right direction. >> dickerson: but at the moment, russell moore, we have an election going on, and you have a speaker of the house who won't defend donald trump and mitch mcconnell won't say his name. how do you see things? >> well, i think that's exactly what we see at the grassroots level. even when i'm talking to people who support donald trump, they do so with a conflicted conscience, and they do so with a certain sense of fear and trembling. but many of them are doing so that i talk to right now, especially evangelical christian, not because they think he'll win. they think he'll lose, but because they want to protest

against a hillary clinton presidency, which will be awful and disastrous for many of the things that we're concerned about. one of the things that concerns me is the personal and spiritual devastation that we see happening in this election. there are friendships that have broken apart. there are husbands and wives who don't speak to each other about the election right now. and there are people who are going through a genuine sense of despair about the future of the country and about the future of their own lives when they look at the kind of cultural coarsening that would lead us to a situation where on the left people are saying the situations with the clinton foundation and the e-mails don't matter, and on the right, there are some people who are saying these comments about women are just locker room talk. >> dickerson: i want to get to that in a moment... >> we're all living through the clinton marriage. >> dickerson: what's your diagnosis, matt? >> i agree with much of what my friends here have said. i just think, yes, obama, we have to give him credit, he got

almost all his agenda through. while doing that, he has taken more legislative powers away from congress. we have a constitutional crisis on our separation of powers. it's not all the republicans' fault in congress. he went around them. he has been overturned more times by the federal courts, this person who used to teach constitutional law, than any other president. he has put us in this constitutional crisis. obama deserves much credit for trump, as well, because many of the bipartisan issues of substance, if he was really able to work with the other side on to solve a big problem. was it entitlements? no. was it obamacare? no, democratic votes. he made big missteps for the country. it helped him politically, but the country finds itself divided like never before, and that's not what obama ran on. >> dickerson: all right. we'll come back and try to figure out how the republicans, not obama and the democrats, handled this in just a moment. we'll take a break. stay with us. we'll be back with more.

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>> dickerson: stay with us. we have a lot more face the nation coming up. be sure to join us wednesday night at 9:00 eastern for the final presidential debate. i'll be there at the university of nevada, las vegas, along with my colleague, including "cbs this morning" co-hosts norah o'donnell and gayle king plus bob schieffer for our live debate coverage. virus. i've been lurking inside you since you had chickenpox. i could surface anytime as a painful, blistering rash. one in three people get me in their lifetime, linda. will it be you? and that's why linda got me zostavax, a single shot vaccine. i'm working to boost linda's immune system to help protect her against you, shingles. zostavax is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults fifty years of age and older. zostavax does not protect everyone and cannot be used to treat shingles or the nerve pain that may follow it. you should not get zostavax if you are allergic to gelatin or neomycin, have a weakened immune system

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>> dickerson: some of our cbs stations are leaving us now, but for most of you we'll be right back with more of our conversation from conservatives, plus an all-star panel with bob woodward and maureen dowd. stay with us. >> it's the worst refugee crisis since world war ii. how many refugees are we accepting from syria, and how are they being vetted for security? "60 minutes" tonight.

>> dickerson: welcome back to "face this." i'm john dickerson. i'm joined by alfonso aguilar, facebook news contributor tammy bruce and matt schlapp of the american conservative union and russell moore. russell, i want to go back to something you said about this locker room talk. when there are indelible molts that are happening here that some conservatives i talk to say we can't get back from. on this question of character, you have people saying, you know, what donald trump said was just what gets said in any old locker room, normalizing that behavior. i spent a lot of time covering conservatives who talked a lot about character. what happened to the character question? >> i think what we're seeing right now is the warnings of the old religious right have come through about the course of our culture. i remember watching bill clinton on television dismissing

essentially what happened with monica lewinsky, even when he admitted to it and then attacking ken starr and thinking, aren't the democrats are going to be morally outraged by this, and they weren't. now we're seeing the situation where you have horrific talk about sexual assault and boasting and glorying these things, which isn't a one off. this has been happening for a long time in the way he's been talking, and you see people trying to dismiss it as just locker room talk and this is alpha male, as one person said, this is the way men talk. i'm hearing from a lot of women who are horrified not just about what happened with donald trump, they know what donald trump is about, but by leaders who are silent or who are dismissive about this. i think that, forget what's happening in this election, that is going to have a long-term implication for the rest of the country. >> dickerson: tammy, address that idea of leaders being silent, but then also donald trump has talked about his accusers, he's used some pretty tough words about those accusers

and evaluated them on their attractiveness, which seems to be the thing that got him in trouble in the first place. >> it's really good we're not electing a husband or a boyfriend. we're electing a president. if you're in the ambulance and you're going to the trauma center and there is a trauma surgeon, i'm not particularly going to care how that person is going to be speaking that. person is going to get do you live another day to, be able to get out of that emergency room, to be able to function the next day. now, look, i can tell you the obamas probably have the best marriage since the reagans in the white house. mr. obama clearly does not offend anyone when it comes to the nhl of how he speaks about women or people. this nation is now going down the drain. and while i would prefer to have president reagan back, we don't, so what i'm looking at is i'm voting for mr. trump for the thousands of women who deserve to not be murdered as an example by the one of the 1.2 million illegal criminals, illegal aliens in this nation. there is violence. it's about economic freedom.

it's about the job. again, i mentionled earlier the 3.7 million women in poverty since obama became president. of course we would prefer fabulousness at every level. from mr. trump, i prefer to be offended by him on occasion than left for dead by hillary. >> we keep going to this question about what does somebody who believes in strong traditional values in the culture, i agree with some much of what you said about what we said would happen in the culture has happened in the culture, but when i talk to people, first of all, they're completely offended by the e-mails that were released about them mocking catholics and christians. that was reprehensible. we should cover that more. but second of all, christians are no longer a necessary thing, we're going to bring back traditional classroom, we're going to bring prayer in the classroom. they want to be left alone with their first amendment rights, be able to practice their faith fully in the job, in their home, in the raising of their

children, forcing nuns to buy contraception and these strange permutations that the obama-clinton policies have us in have christian voters of faith in a different position. they will support in many cases, not all case, someone like donald trump because they think he will stand up and fight. >> dickerson:>> i think it's mod than that. inside the beltway, i hear voters saying this is a binary choice. i know hillary clinton and her bad policies, the supreme court being controlled by liberal activist judge, you have to vote for trump. but the truth is, in america, different from other countries, this is not italy where you have silvio berlusconi who is something with women and then his poll numbers go up. this is america. and character counts. you always consider character as paramount. the president of the united states is a moral reference. so, yes, i'm appalled at hillary clinton, her scandals, her lies, but we have to vote. but to choose donald trump just

because he's the anti-hillary, i just think that a lot of us are going to come out and just leave that part of the ballot blank. we have too many candidates in this primary. despite our differences, the frustration here is that possession point our differences, we know that if we have a serious candidate, we should be winning this election with all the scandals, everything that's coming out of wikileaks. her candidacy would have been derailed. >> dickerson: russell, if i'm a republican, and a lot have broke within the nominee after this tape came out, who is taking the moral position, the better moral position, the person who says i have a fixed set of standards, these break them, or the person who says i'm going to support donald trump, he's the nominee of my party and i'm pledged to the party and i'm going to support him whom has the moral high ground? >> i can understand the person who is wrestling with his or her conscience and i'm going to choose one or the other because of a lesser of two evils. i don't agree but i can understand. i think that's very different than the people who are standing

up and saying, well, we're not electing pastor. we're not electing a sunday schoolteacher. we're not electing a choirboy. we're electing someone who is simply going to be as mean and as tough as possible, and to act as though we fight lack of integrity and character with more lack of integrity and character, i think that is going to... >> but we can't avoid the fact -- >> that goes directly to my comment about who we are electing. i think it is important to think about women and character when we move forward, but when we talk about jobs, the nature of who will build up the business in this country, the issue of regulations and tax, that is... you want to talk about an assault on women? the assault on women is destroying small businesses, having women live in their parents' basement until they're 30, the destruction of hillary clinton, our hospitals and doctors. so this does matter. and it is about hiring someone at this point because we're in an exestem cell research bat -- existential battle for the future. for every woman watching making

a decision, vote with the women and vote with the future in mind for yourself and your daughters. the future is surviving so we can continue the greatness of this country. >> dickerson: the charge i hear is that these don't happen in silos. when you don't respect the boundaries on the character front, that your ability to solve things in just the way tammy suggests is actually also eroded. that was the claim that's been made in other character instances. why isn't that the case? >> i'm with the doctor on this. i think your character matters. i don't think you can privatize your character. i think it does permeate to what kind of president you're going to be, and what i know and what i've seen of donald trump, he's somebody who looks at the last seven and a half years of barack obama, and he woke up and got a lot more serious. he realized this country was going down the drain. i think he's lived a big, flamboyant life. i'm sure he's done tons of things we would all object to. but as he says, he is who he is. with the clintons, say they two for one. she says bill clinton will run

the economy. he was impeached. they were dead broke because they paid $850,000 to paula jones. they paid over $1 million in fines and semghts in fees. he was disbarred. he wasn't allowed to go to the supreme court. >> and she's bragging. >> the idea that the clintons would make the moral case and the character case is absurd, and i think many voters realize that. >> dickerson: but it's standard. >> but she's bragging in the wikileaks about the importance of being two-faced. it's extraordinary. >> if this is more serious on the trump side, i think many americans are saying... >> but the obama marriage and character disputes that about the nature of what's going to save this country, and perhaps even just for four years, the steps we need to take to right her. >> dickerson: we'll have the leave it there. i'll thank our panellives and we'll talk next about hacking and e-mails and all the other news in the political world. news in the political world. stay with us. before it ever becomes a problem. because safety is never being satisfied.

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we've enclosed a picture of our son so that you can get a sense there are real people out here trusting you with their hard-earned money. ♪ at fidelity, we don't just manage money, we manage people's money. ♪ >> dickerson: and we've assembled an all-star panel to talk politics. mauer -- maureen dowd is an op-ed columnist for "the new york times." her new book out is called "the year of voting dangerously." bob woodward's latest book is "the last of the president's men." jon meacham is the author of

"destiny and power." and dave ignatius is a columnist for the "washington post." jon meacham, i want to start with you about a piece you wrote in the "new york times" about the difference between george herbert walker bush and the current republican nominee. there is a big difference in a pretty short time period. >> to paraphrase henry adams, the movement from george h.w. bush to donald trump disproves darwin. it's a remarkable dissent, whether you agreed or disagreed with george h.w. bush politically, he was a figure of enormous public grace and dignity and empathy. he knew how to play politics. he knew how to hire tough people. he ran a tough campaign in 1988. so this is not a case for st. george of kennebunkport. what it is a case for is that this is a man who when confronted by the vicissitudes of politics, he almost always did the right thing and tried to put the country first. >> christa: what do you mean

from where we are right now? you have drusmg talking about a rigged election with 23 days to go before. how do you see trump in the sweep of history? >> well, i frequently disagree with jon, but i agree on this. this is an amazing, appalling election, and, you know, the idea that you're reduced to the discussion of when did he grope and who did he grope and what did he grope is absurd. and it is a true shame for the voters that people are not getting answers to questions like "how might you use military force?" "what's the job of the c.i.a.?" "how would you organize your white house?" "how do you keep from letting the white house become a bunker with an isolated president?" those things don't come up.

>> dickerson: maureen, you've covered bill clinton and you're watching this unfold. donald trump responded to his accusers by calling them sick, by suggesting one of them wasn't attractive enough for his attention. where do you... how do you see that? >> well, it's funny because bob said to me once, we went to the premier of 2 movie "nixon," and he said that every president gets the psychoanalyst he deserve, but now the whole country has become psychoanalysts. we're all trying to analyze trump's behavior, and he brought some women who were bill clinton accusers and sat them in front of hillary clinton for the debate, which i think was one of the most bizarre things any of us have ever seen. and his argument was that they hadn't, you know, been treated as credible enough. and then when he has this cascade of women accusing him, he just suddenly, you know, begins trashing them and saying they can't be believed. and he doesn't understand, there's no logic in trump world.

he lives in his own alternative universe where logic doesn't apply. and as one of his good friend said, "donald does as donald wants." >> dickerson: david, i want to ask you about this question of russian hacking, the e-mail, the other story we've been talking about today. first of all, what does the u.s. government think about what's actually happened? the connection between the russian government and what we've seen coming out of wikileaks? >> since july this is when the first evidence that the russians have hacked the democratic national committee surfaced. there's been a big debate within the obama administration about how west to respond. and after a lot of back and forth, the decision was made, we need to state as much of what we know publicly as we can. so a week ago he had a formal statement by the director of national intelligence, james clapper, and the secretary of homeland security, jeh johnson, essentially accusing russia of having stolen these e-mails and then put them enter our

political debate in an election year for the purpose of destabilizing. then on another network show today, we have the vice president, joe biden, taking it a step further and saying we intend to send a message to the russians through our actions not to do this ever again, and when he's pressed, he kind of smiles and says he hopes the public won't know about it and there will be covert action. i'm told this morning by government officials that no action has yet been taken by the united states. there were some stories out immediately after the first accounts of what was said suggesting it had already begun. currently it hasn't, and they're still debating what will be most efficacious. what do you do that deters the russians without hurting yourself more in prot process. i think they want to prevent the russians from doing even more in this last month of the election. >> dickerson: i've been

talking to clinton officials and they bring up the word watergate. i ask you, they say, if nixon had said, oh, this is great what they found by breaking me in and i'm going to use this in my campaign, it would have been pretty shocking. they say people should be equally shocked at the trump campaign using to their benefit the findings of this hacking. >> well, but watergate was a domestic crime, clearly a crime. in this case it's espionage, at least at this point. but i think he still has the look at what the e-mails tell us. and i'm be no means have read them all, but i have read some. and it was one where hillary clinton's chief speechwriter sent to cheryl mills, the chief of staff in the state department saying, oh, hillary's changing her position on the keystone pipeline, and let's leak that so she won't have to say it herself publicly. now, this is this culture of

concealment, the fail year to have straight talk, and it's quite likely hillary clinton's going to win and be the next president. i think the question becomes for her and for voters: is she going to be able to govern? you talk to lots of people who are her supporters, and they say, you know, she may be elected, but she will be a weak president. and part of this is she's got to face and... this isn't just about trump. it's about her. majority of the people distrust her, and she needs to... she can't walk away from that question. >> dickerson: maureen, did you in these e-mails when you see what bob is talking about, the xl pipeline, trade, other things, where there is shifting and shading, trying to hide her or divert, does that look like politics as especially, or is she something that's more, the

clinton stuff? >> it's hard because the crazy transgressions of donald trump kind of relatively speaking make this seem minor. i think it would be more lethal during the primary, but the part to me that's almost poignant is hillary clinton has been trying for 25 years to show who she is to the public and getting memos from her staff. so we see the same memos from her staff now that she got in '92 saying, we're going to... in '92, it was, we're going to have a spontaneous -- they're always scripghtsding spontaneity, right? so we're going to have this spontaneous moment where bill and chelsea surprise you on mother's day. so now we have near a tandem sending one saying, we're going to have an end-of-summer party where you'll groove to the music. she can groove to the music and she can have a beer. it's just sad. they have... you know, they have off-the-record answers sort of scripted out for her for

reporters with the cue to smile. it's sad. >> dickerson: john, when asked a question about governing versus campaigning, in campaigning you want candidates to be straight as possible. there is a case hillary clinton tried the make in one of the goldman sachs speeches there should be a distance between the public position you have and the private in order to when you're trying to make deals. you've written about a lot of presidents. is she right about that? >> absolutely she's right. this is not a new political insight. you go to machiavelli and go even further back. politics is the art of the possible. it is about personal in my -- manipulation in many ways. thomas jefferson would try to tell the person he was talking to, signal the person he was talking to he agreed with them and he would take the best of what they said and try to put with it this other idea that wasn't so great from the other guy and maybe we can get there. so we live in a nation that is better off because linden johnson could do that.

because ronald reagan could do that to some extent. so there's always a public and a private face. the problem right now is with 23 days to go, you have a woman who... for whom this election was entirely a referendum on trump, it would be over, but as bob says, it is also a referendum on her, and that is why it's so close. >> dickerson: and david, your thoughts about these e-mails? >> well, the e-mails are interesting. i have to be honest, i find political embarrassment in them. i find characteristics of her closed, tight, scripted political personality, which is familiar to us. i haven't found yet anything i'd call "scandal." and on the question, is she a fundamentally dishonest person, she's certainly a closed person, but we're looking at world-class dishonesty by the republican

candidate, donald trump, so i just make that distinction. the final thing, we don't know what else is going to come out from these e-mails and leaked things in the last month. >> dickerson: 20 seconds. >> that's exactly right. we don't know. if these people, wikileaks or whoever is behind it can hack john podesta, my god, getting to hillary clinton's e-mails, as the f.b.i. now has told us there are 14,900 that were not turned over that have gone to the state department, so you know, keep your seat belts on. >> dickerson: 22 more days and more disclosures. thanks to all of you. when we come back, we'll go in-depth with our battleground tracker. stay with us. >> their final debate head to head, their final chance to win your vote. the final presidential debate wednesday right here on cbs.

>> dickerson: and we're back with more from our battleground tracker anthony salvanto. in addition to the six-point lead hillary clinton has now opened up in the 13 battleground states, our tracker has her up six points in the state of nevada and in utah donald trump is ahead with 37% of the support, third party and other candidates total 32%, and hillary clinton has 20%.

let's talk about the trump tapes first and the effect those have had on our polling. >> we're now on track for what may be one of the biggest gender caps we have ever seen, and this is the difference between how women vote and how men vote. this swing toward hillary clinton overall is driven almost entirely by the women's vote, but what's really notable is you go inside, and number one, you see a drop among donald trump support with republican women. so he's now lost ground among the very people he needed at this point to start winning and he starts to see a closing off in that, 90 and 10 of the women who find the tapes offensive now say they won't consider him. that's a barrier going forward. >> dickerson: that's clearly what's behind some of the defections from him from other republicans. what do rank-and-file republicans feel about those republicans who have bolted from donald trump? >> they think they're motivated by politics and not by principal. this is a larger theme that

we've seen throughout this year where the rank and file republicans who elected donald trump to this nomination don't care much what the party leadership thinks. in fact, even in this sure fay, they say that they think donald trump looks out for people like them more than they think the republican party represents them. >> dickerson: right. that's the point tammy was making earlier. you spent some time in utah this week. why? >> because donald trump is underperforming what a republican typically does in reliably republican utah. and one of the big reasons out there is that conservative voters do not like him personally. people have of the mormon faith in particular think he has a person, they give him much lower ratings than republicans and conservatives do. quickly 20 seconds left. republicans, you talk about women who may be closed off to donald trump. is he having trouble inside of his party in other ways? >> he is down with republicans overall. it's those republican women, it's those republican moderates that he is not capturing.

what makes that hard is that this is a point where you really need to be, any republican needed to be closing ranks and growing from there. nine in ten feel like he's not even trying the win their vote because they like him on the economy and they like him on defense, but that's not what they say they're hearing. >> dickerson: all right, anthony salvanto, thanks so much as always, and we'll be back in a moment. is that ice-t? lemonade. ice-t? what's with these people, man? lemonade, read the sign. lemonade. read it. ok. delicious. ice-t at a lemonade stand? surprising. what's not surprising? how much money marin saved by switching to geico. yo, ice-t! it's lemonade, man! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.

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at the 20, at the 15, ten, five, touchdown. >> this is toyota sunday kick off on cbs-3. >> you are looking live at fedex field in land over, maryland, in about 90 minutes, the eagles will play their first nfc east game of the season. what up, welcome to toyota a sunday kick off i'm's don bell. leslie van arsdal is with the bird and she will join us live in a moment.