03/30/12 03/30/12 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is "democracy now!" >> trayvon is a martyr. he is not coming back. and now we want to illuminate the darkness with the light that comes from the martyr. >> over a month after a 17-year- old trayvon martin was shot dead

in sanford, florida, his gun man, george zimmerman, remains a free man, despite growing questions over zimmerman's claims he acted in self-defense. we will speak with trayvon martin's attorney and the comparisons between martin's death and civil rights murder emmett till who was killed at the age of 14 in mississippi in 1965. we will speak director who was , mamieby till's mother till mobley. >> there is no simple formula from art to justice. i note art, in my own case, the art of poetry, means nothing if it simply decorates the dinner table of power which holds it hostage. >> adrienne rich died on tuesday at the age of 82. we will speak with pulitzer prize-winning author alice walker and frances goldin, her

friend and literary agent. all of that and more coming up. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the senate has failed to pass the measure that would end billions of dollars in tax breaks for large oil companies. the measure failed and a 51-47 vote short of the 60 needed to overcome a republican-led filibuster. earlier in the day, president obama called on lawmakers to choose between will companies and the american people. >> today, members of congress have a simple twist to make. they can stand with the big oil companies or they can stand with the american people. it is not as if these companies cannot stand on their own. last year, the three biggest u.s. oil companies took a more than $80 billion in profits.

exxon pocketed nearly $4.7 million every hour. and when the price of oil goes up, prices at the pump go up, and so to these companies' profits. >> the republican controlled house has passed a $3.50 trillion budget plan centered on cutting taxes for the wealthy and cutting social spending. democrats say the measure is dead on arrival in the senate. workers in spain staged a general strike thursday shutting down factories in parts of the transportation sector and holding massive marches. the strike was called by two major trade unions to protest a rules that make it less costly for employers to hire and fire people in a country where unemployment is near 23%. the spanish prime minister is expected to deliver a budget today that includes some $26 billion in spending cuts and tax hikes. in india, thousands of people

gathered for the funeral of the tibetan activists to died after committing self mutilation to protest a visit by chinese president hu jintao the activist succumbed to his wounds two days after his adam's off on fire. in new delhi, a group of exiles protested outside the chinese embassy. >> we want to say his hands are bloodied. he is a human rights violator. >> israeli forces cracking down palestinian demonstrators in the occupied territories marking the and the land day, which commemorates the 1976 deaths of six palestinians protesting the confiscation of their property. israeli troops fired rubber bullets and tear gas as well as sealed off the entire west bank. land day protests turned deadly last year when israel killed demonstrators on its border with lebanon and syria.

palestinian prisoner hana shalabi has ended her 43-day hunger strike under a deal that will see her deported to the gaza strip. shalabi began her hunger strike last month protesting israel's ministry of detention practices. she was recently hospitalized amid warnings her life was in grave danger. she will be forced to spend the next three years in gaza. a judge has backed the city of chicago's rejection of a permit for a major anti-war rally during the nato summit in may. and it had been sought for may 20 when president obama will host other nato leaders for talks on the war in afghanistan. organizers said they plan to go ahead with their protest despite being denied. a group of journalists, academics and activists gave testimony in federal court thursday in their suit challenging the national defense authorization act, which includes controversial provisions authorizing the military to jail anyone it considers a terrorism suspect anywhere in the world, without charge or trial.

sections of the bill are written so broadly that critics say they could encompass journalists to report on terror related issues for supporting enemy forces. tangerine bowl in of the activist media group revolution truth explained her decision to join the suit. >> we're here to basically stand up and make sure the government knows this is an egregious assault on our civil liberties. we will not stand for it. we have to amend the provision the ndaa -- the government needs to better define its terms. right now they're dangerous and far too broad. >> other plaintiffs include former new york times war correspondent chris hedges, pentagon papers whistleblower daniel ellsberg, and professor noam chomsky. cornell west also appeared at the court to support the case. >> i am full of joy to be a plaintiff in this particular case, why? because we're at a turning point and we need to stand for

freedom in this nation. even a creeping fascism. freedom is precious. if we do not fight for it, you lose it. >> no me wolf is also part of the lawsuit. a group republican governors toward a meatpacking plant to support so-called pink slime. pink slime, or finely textured lean beef, is composed of fatty meat left over from other cuts. it has drawn recent national scrutiny over safety concerns about the chemicals used to kill bacteria. this week, its main producer, beef products, suspended operations in texas, kansas, and iowa. the kansas governor said pink slime has been unfairly criticized. >> we have lost 300 jobs in kansas off of this. of a good, wholesome, is a product that has been consumed for 20 y witrsut a problem.

that is why we are pushing back. i really hope the people in america take a second look and thought about what this really is and work with it. if there was a safety issue, i am absolutely for going after any safety issue on food. whatever it is. we should go after it and we are and we have been as an industry. that is not what this is. this is not merited. my hope is people can take another look at it and see this is a quality beef products. >> tech giant apple and its manufacturer foxconn have agreed to address workplace violations affecting workers to make apple products in china. the move comes in response to an investigation by the fair labor association that uncovered multiple labor violations at three of their factories including unpaid overtime and extreme hours. foxconn has agreed to boost safety, hire more workers, and

stop illegal overtime as well as improving workers' housing. the death of a homeless woman in st. louis, missouri last year is drawing national scrutiny over revelations of how she died in police custody. 29-year-old anna brown had gone to the hospital seeking emergency medical treatment for leg pain. when she refused to leave the emergency ward, she is carried to jail by her arms and ankles and left on the floor of her cell. within 15 minutes, she stopped moving and was soon after pronounced dead. the officers who arrested her reportedly suspected she was at the hospital seeking drugs. an autopsy later revealed she had blood clots in her legs and lungs, and had no drugs in her system. the st. louis police never announced her death. brown's story only came to light six months later after an anonymous caller tipped off the st. louis post-dispatch newspaper. brown, who is african-american, was the mother of two children. her family is reportedly considering bringing a wrongful death suit against the hospital

and police. an update to thursday's broadcast on the case of kenneth chamberlain, a 68-year-old african-american marine veteran fatally shot by white plains, new york police in his home last year. on thursday, chamberlain son, kenneth chamberlain, jr., met with westchester county prosecutors who assured him that a grand jury will hear evidence in the case. kenneth chamberlain, jr. has called for the prosecution of the officers who can -- shot dead his father. after the meeting, he criticized police for refusing to release the name of the officer who fired the fatal shots. the police have responded to a false alarm from timberlands medical alert pendant while sleeping. the officers broke down his door, tasered him, then shot him dead. speaking to "democracy now!" kenneth chamberlain, jr. described in on the recording from the medical alert system operator that captured the moment the police barged into his father's home. >> you hear him asking them, why

they're doing this to him. he says, "i am a 68-year-old man with a heart condition. why are you doing this to me? i know you're going to come in here and kill me." you can also hear him pleading with the officers again, over and over. at one point, that is when the expletive is used by one of the police officers. they say, i do not give a f." then they use the n-word. >> kenneth chamberlain, jr.. to hear the full interview, go to democracynow.org. those are some of the headlines. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world.

the questions are being raised in the trayvon martin case over george zimmerman's claim that he shot the 17-year-old in self- defense last month in sanford, florida. speaking anonymously to anderson cooper by phone, a witness to the shooting said last night he observed a struggle between zimmerman and martin from a nearby window. while zimmerman told police he was attacked by martin, the witness said zimmerman did not show any signs of injures after he shot the teenager. the witness's voice was distorted to protect his identity. >> i watched him get up. maybe only within a couple of seconds or so, then he was walking toward where i was watching. i could see him a little more clearly. it was a hispanic man. he did not appear hurt or anything else. he just seemed very worried or whatever, walked on the sidewalks at that point with his

hand to his forehead. another man came out with a flashlight. >> that interview was on cnn. the new york daily news has revealed the mother of a young witness said her son was pressured by police. police have said that 13-year- old austin brown saw zimmerman lying in the grass crying for help just before the slain, but brown's mother says her son only saw one person lying in the grass and could not tell who it was because it was too dark. the daily news is also reporting a former co-worker of zimmerman says the gunman was fired from his job as an under the table security guard for "being too aggressive." meanwhile, a white supremacist hacker has claimed to have broken into trayvon martin's email, yahoo, myspace, and twitter accounts and posted his private messages online. some commentators have described it as part of a racist smear campaign against trayvon martin. meanwhile, members of george zimmerman's family have begun speaking to the media.

the zimmerman's father, robert zimmerman, appeared on fox 35 in florida and explained what he understood to have happen the night trayvon martin died. >> trayvon martin walked up to him, asked him, do you have a [bleep porblem. george said, no, and started to reach for his cellphone. at that point, he was punched in the nose. his nose was broken and he was not to the concrete. >> george zimmerman's brother appeared on cnn's piers morgan tonight. he stood behind his brother's claim of self-defense, even though surveillance video shows zimmerman walking into the sanford police station with the visible signs of blood minutes after he shot and killed trayvon martin. >> what i think i see is a swollen nose. i am not a physician and you're not a physician. a lot of these take time to show

the bruising. sometimes the bone breaks and the blood is swallowed, like in the case, for example, if your hand would be on someone's nose and mouth preventing -- >> does he have any injuries now? >> his nose is still broken. >> a month later? >> his nose. i don't know about the black of his -- back of his head. he is still healing. he has very severe emotional injuries. he has been diagnosed with post- traumatic stress disorder. >> what you could see robert zimmerman jr.'s face on piers morgan, when his father went on fox tv, he was in silhouette. for more, we go to orlando, florida were reared joined by natalie jackson, the attorney for trayvon martin's family, and founder of the women's trial group. welcome to "democracy now!" ticket for joining us, natalie jackson. can you respond to these latest

stories been presented by george zimmerman's father and brother? >> clearly, they are trying to protect their family member. i guess they have a right to do that, but the problem is, they do not have a right to destroy trayvon's memory in the process. trayvon was an innocent child. there's nothing he was doing wrong. he was not involved in any criminal activity. he had a right to be where he was. my response to them is that, you can tell us what ever you want to, but we have the call george zimmerman made where he said, "these a-holes always get away." he was told to not get out of his car and he did. he also said trayvon was running away from him. we have telephone calls that trayvon made, records that prove he was on the foreign -- phone george and sermon approached

and attacked. now we have video that shows george zimmerman did not have the injuries that he and his family claimed. there is the explanation for people who were not there such as meat and his family members. people who want to know the truth, all they have to do is listen to the video -- i mean, listen to the audio and the the videotapes. >> you have raised serious questions about the initial investigation. the new police chief there is or was part of the investigation? >> we're told he was part of the investigation. what your audience has to remember, the family has not been given any information about the investigation into the death of their son. everything they are learning is coming from the media, coming from people who are sources, and coming at the same time the public is getting it.

this family lost their child. the law enforcement has not released any information to them. that is why they started this campaign. they want to know what happened when their son was coming home from the store and george zimmerman got out of his car with a 9 millimeter and shot him dead. >> i want to play more from the eye witness who spoke to anderson cooper on cnn last night. he said he observed the struggle between george zimmerman and trayvon martin from a window. the witness's voice was distorted to protect a person's identity. >> i could not hear the words, but it was like, this is not a regular conversation. this is someone aggressively yelling at someone. i saw two men on the ground, one on top of the other. i'm thinking something horrible has happened. at that point, not looking out the window, i heard the yell for help.

then i hear this excruciating type of deal. it just sounded so painful. i was not watching out the window. the next time i looked out the window, there were two men on the ground, one on top of each other. i kind -- i could not see a lot of movement because it was dark, but i felt like they were scuffling. then i heard the gunshots, which to me, or more like pops than a bang. >> the witness talking to anderson cooper on cnn. natalie jackson, can you talk about the significance of this person coming forward? >> this person is another witness. you know, there are many witnesses in this case. there's a lot of ear and eye evidence that needs to be presented to a jury. i cannot talk about the

credibility of these witnesses. that is for the jury. this case will not get to a jury of george zimmerman is not brought to trial. that is what happened in this case. when these parents found out their child had been shot and killed by george zimmerman, they were told law enforcement could do nothing about it because it was self-defense. that is not the way our system works. that is not america. he needs to be brought before a jury of his peers and the them decide who is credible, who is not credible, and whether or not he can claim self-defense. there is no doubt who the shooter is. the shooter is george zimmerman. >> it was seem to me the forensic evidence, which is bound to come out or should be obvious the presented in a grand jury, but certainly in a trial, would indicate a lot about the proximity of the zimmerman to martin and the shooting occurred and a lot more in terms of the

angle of the bullets. we have not heard anything about that so far. >> and all of that is for a jury. the point is, these parents are told -- there was not even probable cause to arrest. after we have all this evidence, these parents, and they were told there was no probable cause stephen arrest george zimmerman. that is not a satisfactory answer. especially not satisfactory answer now that we see all of the evidence that is coming out. >> natalie jackson, can you talk about the significance of both the police chief of sanford stepping aside, though he is said not permanently, as well as the state's attorney, the person who originally set up to tremendous pressure, after the justice department announced an investigation, that they would convene a grand jury in a few weeks? >> the significance is, now this family feels like they may get some justice for their son. there's been a special

prosecutor assigned. this is a prosecutor not from the area, does not know the people. there has been a grand jury convened that is supposed to convene on april 10. the family is feeling more positive. i will say, actions speak louder than words. the family has heard a lot of words. they are feeling more positive that perhaps a fair and equal treatment will be given to this case. >> can you explain something, natalie jackson, that we have not seen in the media? first of all, where was trayvon shot? how was he shot, on what part of his body? and how was it his family did not find out for several days that he was the john doe in the morgue that had not been identified? >> ok, we have not received the autopsy yet so everything we know about where trayvon was shot comes from the person who

prepared the body. it was in the center of the chest. the release of the body -- the parents knew where he was the next day when they filed a missing person's report. however, he was labeled a john doe for three days, even after the parents identified him. so that was a little of people not quite understanding what happened. >> can you explain that? >> no, we cannot. the parents as for the release of the body. he was labeled a john doe. they would not release the body for three days. >> in other words, they were informed by the next day that he was dead? >> yes. >> but was that only after they had filed a missing person's report? >> that is correct. >> and what are the next ups for your legal team?

what are you calling for to happen immediately? what we believe we have to continue these media tours to inform the public so they will keep the pressure on. there was an online petition to a rest george zimmerman. that online petition has over 2 million signatures. that is 2 billion people of all nationalities, races, and political affiliations. 2 million people that look at the evidence presented and say george zimmerman needs to be arrested and brought before -- brought to a trial. notof now, that has happened. until he is brought to trial, we will continue to put the pressure on. >> and you've had to hire your own investigators because of the terrible job that has been done so far by authorities in ascertaining the facts in this case? >> yes. i do not know if this is a terrible job or they thought was inconsequential to do the job.

whether or not it was important to do or was bungled, we do not know, but we had to go out and investigate this case. we hired an investigator that got the phone records. once we saw trayvon's phone records, because he had his phone with him but we saw he was on the phone when this incident reportedly happened. we contacted the person he was on the phone with, a young girl. she told us she heard zimmerman approach trayvon. this is extraordinary. she and trayvon, according to the phone records, there was a phone call it 7:12. the phone call lasted for four minutes. that would make it 7:16. according to police records, they were on the scene at 7:17 and trayvon was dead. so this young girl was a very important witness. >> and the issue of trayvon's life, his reputation being

attacked -- i mean, his mom's and first they kill my son, then they kill his reputation. what tune of this white supremacist who supposedly hacked into his twitter count, facebook, email? what do know about this? >> we do not know anything. we know he is ignorant and just as ignorant as the black list of who put out bounties on people. these are in our people that are divisive. there are a whole group people united to gather in justice across all races, nationalities, and political affiliations. we cannot let people defied and distract from what really happened. this is about the evidence that will be presented, the factual evidence. >> natalie jackson, thank you for being with us, local co- counsel for trayvon martin's family, founder of the women's trial group. she is speaking to us from orlando, florida.

this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, we take a trip through history, look at trayvon's martin case and the story of emmett till, 14-year old african-american in mississippi who was lynched. we will speak with a woman who was taught by emmett till's mother. stay with us. ♪ [music break] ♪ [music break]

>> "a song for trayvon." special shout out to the academy in manhattan, 9-12th grade is here watching "democracy now!"

this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> for more on trayvon martin, we're joined by cynthia dagnal- myron, a former reporter for the chicago sun-times and the arizona daily star who has also spent over 20 years as a teacher and administrator. her own fifth grade teacher was mamie till mobley, the mother of emmett till, who was murdered at the age of 14 in mississippi in 1955. her most recent piece appeared on salon.com called "for trayvon and emmett." welcome to "democracy now!" could you tell us in terms of the article that you had, how the trayvon martin incident had an impact on you and the article you wrote? >> the first thing that happened was i was thinking about all the confusion that was going on

about what had actually happened. as a black woman, i was thinking about my own life experiences and now none of this really surprised me because of the things that happened to me. as all this was swirling and is beginning to get worse, i was thinking about how most of us, black women and men, had experiences called "walking while black." for us, this was just another instance of someone being mistaken for a thug or something he was not. i was angry. that's all i can say. >> you have a remarkable story. i was just looking at a piece he wrote, cynthia dagnal-myron, as assistan principal of sister middle school in tucson, arizona, about your fifth grade teacher mamie till mobley.

can you tell us the story of mamie till mobley and her son emmett till? >> i was a fifth grader. what we knew as children was that we had a very famous teacher. my experience was being horrified and i think the entire community was were fired at the pictures we saw. -- was horrified at the pictures we saw i remember most that mrs. mobley was very, very determined to make sure her son was not forgotten. she was also very determined that we as students would excel and go on to be on the front lines to do something about the ignorance that had killed her son. so i remember her as a very remarkable woman, a strong- willed woman who was not going to let her son be forgotten or his death be in vain. >> she did something incredible. this is her only child and she

sent him to money, mississippi to get out of the city, to be with his aunt and uncle and cousins. he is ripped out of bed by zero white mob and ends up at the bottom of the river. when his body was dredged up and taken in a casket back to chicago, she said she wanted the casket open for the wake and funeral. she wanted the world to see the ravages of racism and brutality of bigotry. we are showing as images now preferred the folks listening, go to democracynow.org. is distended, mutilated head, the -- shown,a published in black publications. tell us about that and how you see it relating to trayvon. >> first of all, she did not talk about it overtly in class.

but we knew why she was so absolutely insistent on our learning, on our excelling in class. she looked excellence. she demanded excellence of us because she really wanted us to act on behalf of her son. so she was extremely, extremely adamant that we learn and do our very, very best. how this is connected is that we have, again, a young man, a beautiful young man with thomas a. kospi kid face. -- cosby-kid face. his very articulate parents. they're just as determined as mrs. mobley was at this case is not forgotten, that the investigation is done, and that justice is also served. they're very much liked mamie was.

they're absolutely determined to make sure that everything is done. i think that is the parallel i see. >> the death of emmett till and the public outrage and the massive outpouring that occurred after his death is often credited a sort of been the beginning of the modern civil rights movement. your thoughts that here we are more than half a century later, and supposedly all of the progress that has made in race relations in the country, and that these incidents like the one with trayvon martin, like the one reported about of the marine veteran and westchester county, continue to happen. you made the distinction in some of your writings of down walking while black is also testing for what happens to african- american men curse is african- american women. could you talk about those things? >> i think walking while black

for men, they're more in fear of being killed. we, as women, are disrespected. i think i wrote about that in my article. if i was standing on the street at night or even sometimes in the daytime, standing alone, i was immediately -- there was an assumption i was a prostitute. i was approached very disrespectfully by white men, mostly in. african-american men are more in fear for their lives. i was just insulted constantly. it is something in the back of your mind all the time. you are a little nervous about how you're being perceived, see your trying to always be better than are even trying to be -- as mrs. mobley told us, you're going to have to be superior, do much better than anybody else because people immediately expect you to be -- they have a stereotype and you're going to have to defy that.

you have that feeling all the time reid that is for black men and women. >> and the question of the progress made versus the progress not made? >> i do not feel -- i live with this every day and i think a lot of people forget this. i don't know how much progress has been made. every now and then we see someone like we have obama and things like that, but your everyday life, your day-to-day life if you are an americaafric- american, you still feel things my parents felt. you are still nervous about the same things. you are still treated the way my parents were afraid i would be treated, it's just an everyday thing for me. for those who think it is over, they are not walking in our shoes. we know what goes on every day. we feel this every day. >> in february 2000, we broadcast many tell all the, the mother of emmett till, is

reflected on the painful moment when she learned about her son's murder. >> when we knew emmett was dead, our first action, we cannot take time to cry as i announced to the family what was happening, of course there were screams. people were hitting the floor in hysteria. i remember standing, announcing we do not have time to cry now. we have got to do something. i don't know what to do. you have to help me make some decisions. >> that was mamie till mobley. your final thoughts on this, cynthia dagnal-myron? >> my parents also took me to the south every summer so i would witness how they had grown up, we drink from colored

fountains and not be able to go into movie theaters and have to go into the back doors of restaurants. the fact we're still talking about these things now, the fact we're still having experiences we are having, when i listen to what mamie was saying and realize this has happened again now after all this time, i don't know what to say. i am outraged and sad. >> i also to bring into the conversation the pulitzer prize- winning author, poet, activist alice walker. in a moment, we're going to be talking about the death of adrienne rich and her significance. first, alice, thank you for joining us at this early hour from berkeley, california. i want to ask about your thoughts on the death of trayvon martin. >> a great deal of sadness, of course, and also by a deepening and ever flowing love for my people. we have suffered so much from

just this kind of news about our children, our families, our fathers and mothers. so i send out to all of us, a very big living hug because we need it. we have been of use for such a long time and is very misguided civilization. i think also would move me is he is from stanford. this is a part of bill hurston's -- or neal hurston's heritage critics talk about restoring her grave. she was a great author. >> zora was from that part of the world, and was part of the before became such a nightmare.

should the tenant all black town 10 miles from sanford -- who lived in an all black counting miles from sanford. she made a special effort to understand them and to preserve for us some of the ways these people, and there were really wonderful people. they had not been so tortured because they did not have wide authority always on their necks. this is one of the reasons we love her. she's one of the few african americans who grew up in a situation where she could fully be herself. she herself was as vibrant, wonderful person. >> it is remarkable to remember these women and the last days of women's history month, but mamie till mobley, zora neal hurston who stayed margaret mead, this famous writer but went home to

eatonville. we believe her mother is buried in sanford. she died a pauper. which is how you got involved, alice. >> i loved her book so much. i used some of her work and one of my early short stories. i cannot believe she had died penniless and buried in a place and no one knew where it was. i decided as her spiritual descendant, it was my responsibility to go and find her grave and put a marker there, which i did. i'm very happy to have that in. i think she was afraid that maybe she would not have cared, but i think for all of us, at the least we can do is offer some remembrance and appreciation of people have given us so much. >> having trouble to that area decades after she lived there, does it surprise you -- having

traveled therto that area decads after she lived there, does it surprise you what happened in sanford? >> it is happening elsewhere beside sanford, also. we are a very sick country. racism is a manifestation of our illness and we we do not build into our own wrecks. part of it we have never look to see where we went off the trails. as shocking and painful -- i could barely look at what happened for several days. now i am looking at it, and i feel so much for this young man because he was beautiful. he was ours. and do not just in black people, but all of ours. these children are our future. they have to be protected.

i also feel what is happening, people are soivided about one zimmerman has not been arrested. but if he is arrested, the police department is in big trouble. he knows so much about the police department. i would also think he should be under some kind of guard now. if i were his family, that is what i would be concentrating on, if they care about him, keeping him alive so that whatever happens, he would be able to speak. >> alice walker, we're going to ask you to stay with us and, cynthia dagnal-myron, thank you for being with this spent 20 years as a teacher administrator. her own fifth grade teacher was mamie till mobley, the mother of the infamously murdered emmett till. her recent piece appears on part

of salon.com, "for trayvon and emmett: my 'walking while black' stories." thank you so much for being with us. when we come back, we continue with alice walker on the life of adrienne rich. stay with us. ♪ [music break] ♪ [music break]

>> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> the legendary poet, essayist

and feminist adrienne rich died on tuesday the age of 82. rich was one of the most celebrated poets of the last half century and a lifelong advocate for women, gay and lesbian rights, peace and racial justice. she drew widespread acclaim for her many volumes of poetry and prose, which brought the oppression of women and lesbians into the public spotlight. she was a key figure in the women's movement and an uncompromising critic of the powerful. rich won numerous awards and honors including the national book award for the 1973 collection, "diving into the rack." refusing to accept the award alone, she appeared onstage with poets audre lorde and alice walker, and they accepted the award on behalf of all women. >> in 1997, adrienne rich famously declined to tip the national medal of arts and a protest against the clinton the ministration writing that art -- in a moment, we will be joined

by pulitzer prize-winning author alice walker and her literary agent frances goldin. first, we go to adrienne rich herself, reading her poem, what kind of times are these? >> there is a place between two stad s of trees where the grass grows up pill and the old revolutionary road breaks off into shadows. abandoned by the persecuted and disappeared into those shadows. i have walked their picking mushrooms and the edge of dread, but do not be fooled. this is not a russian pelham. this is not somewhere else but here. our country moving closer to its own truth and to read, its own ways of making people disappear. i won't tell you where the place

is, the dark mesh of the woods meeting the unmarked strip of light ghostwritten crossroads, leaf mold paradise, i know already who wants to buy it, sell and, make it disappear. i will not tell you where it is, so why do i tell you anything? because you still listen. because in times like these, to have to listen at all, it is necessary to talk about trees. >> that was adrienne rich, reading her poetry. she died on tuesday the age of 82. alice walker as well as frances goldin are here to talk about her life. alice walker, your thoughts about adrienne rich? >> up, it was very interesting. she and i saw each other

infrequently and almost always by accident. it was quite magical. sometimes we would be in an elevator to gather and she would have come from one part of the country and me from somewhere else, and there we would be. or show up in a movie and there we would be. she was very close to a friend of mine. i got to know more about her through june jordan and also her poetry, which was very meaningful to me. the thing i'm most loved was her integrity. -- the thing i most loved was heard iher integrity. we will miss her. >> can you talk about the national book award in 1973 that she won for "diving into the rack" that she insisted that you, alice, and audre lorde x up

the word with her on stage? talk about that moment. where were you? >> i was in mississippi. i was fighting the good fight down there. anyway, what happened was we were all renominated for this award. we understood to your living under apartheid and segregation and all of that. and under such a system, which favored white people, she would get the award. we knew that. so we decided before anything was announced that we would not accept being ranked and we would not accept the racism, implicit in the north that would go to someone -- she was a great poet, but it would go to her also because she was a white person. and to her immense credit, she had no desire to be honored as we would be dishonored. so we got together.

audre called me and we chatted about it. and adrienne. we decided we could only accept the award if we accepted it in the name of all women indicate by the action that we understood that women were not honored in the arts and elsewhere. >> frances goldin, he represented her for many years. talk to us about how you first came to know her and what kind of person she was, especially this issue of her stances of principles on social justice. >> i met her at a dinner. the gay and lesbian rights groups had a dinner the night before every year when the publishing world came together in various countries, cities in the country. i was sitting next to her. and met her for the first time

at that dinner. we bonded because we had similar politics and had wanted to meet each other for some time. after the meeting i said to her, "can i hope you?" she said, "it would be a pleasure." i said, well, if we can hug, can i kiss you? then i really campaign for a couple of years to be able to represent her. i remember taking a camera on a city bus because they had billboards on the buses, the poet of the month. and one time it was adrienne. i took a picture of that and said, millions of people in new york about you because you're on the bus this morning. i just courter with anything i

could think of. then one day she called and said, "i need some help. a publisher, norton, has to get offers from england and i do not know which to take." i said, "just sit there and do not go away from your phone." i called my british agent because i certainly did not know was the better of the two. he called her and she explained it and he told her which was the best publisher for her. she called back and said, "he was so wonderful and he did not take any money and he would not charge me." i said, "of course not, it was just a favor." she said, "can you represent the book?" >> i said, "how can i? you sign a contract." she said, "well, can you do my next one?"

i said, "as night follows day?" and we became agent and author. it has been 25 years. >> i want to go back to the moment in 1997 when she refused a national medal for the arts, to protest the growing concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands. adrienne rich informed the clinton administration of precision and in a july 3rd letter to jane alexander, the chair of the national endowment for the arts at the time, which ministers the awards. adrienne rich appeared on "democracy now!" soon afterwards and read her letter. >> dear jane alexander, i just go with the young man from your office who informed me that i have been chosen to be one of 12 recipients of the national medal for the arts at a ceremony at the white house in the fall. i told him at once that i could not accept such an award from

president clinton or this winehouse because the very meaning of art, as i understand it, is incompatible with the cynical politics of this administration. i want to clarify to you what i meant by my refusal. anyone familiar with my work from the early 1960's on knows i believe in our -- arts social presence as voice for those whose voices are disregarded and as a human birthrights. in my lifetime, i have seen the space for the arts opened by movements for social justice. the power of art to break this bear. -- dispair. i have witnessed the increasingly brutal impact of racial and economic injustice in our country. there is no simple formula for

the relationship of art to justice. but i knew that art, in my own case, the art of poetry, means nothing if it is simply decorating the dinner table of power which holds it hostage. the radical disparities of wealth and power in america are widening a devastating great. -- rate. a president cannot meaningfully honor certain token artists while the people at large are so dishonored. i know you have been engaged in a serious and disheartening struggle to said government funding for the arts against those whose fear and suspicion of art is naked the repressive. in the end, i do not think we concelebrate art from over of human dignity and hope. my concern from my country is in

extricable from my concerns as an artist. i could not participate in a ritual which would feel so hypocritical to me. sincerely, adrienne rich. >> adrienne rich, reading on "democracy now!" the letter she wrote to the actress jane alexander, who was in the head of the national endowment for the arts, rejecting the 1997 national medal for the arts. alice walker, your final thoughts on adrienne rich? >> i think the better demonstrates that integrity she had that i so admired. and i think her legacy for all of us is to continue to believe in the power of art, especially the power of poetry, and to keep moving and not to be dissuaded, not to be discouraged, but to

take heart from a woman who lived for 82 years giving her very best, growing at of every shell that society attempted to force her into to become this really amazing figure of inspiration and hope and love. >> alice walker, thank you for being with us, pulitzer prize- winning author and activist, frances goldin, agent and friend of adrienne rich. we will post her letter to you on democracynow.org. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]