03/28/13 03/28/13 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is "democracy now!" today is like a spectacular event for me. it is a lifetime kind of event. i know the spirit of my late spouse, thea spyer, is right here watching and listening and would be very proud and happy of where we have come to. >> the united states versus windsor, that is the 83-year-old lesbian edith windsor who took her challenge of the defense of their attack to the supreme

court four years ago after her spouse died. today we look at the remarkable story. in 1962, soon got engaged and had to wait 40 years before they could marry. >> edie and thea spent four years together, in sickness and in health, just like any other married couple. for the federal government to protect their marriage did that exist is unfair and an american and unconstitutional. >> we will hear excerpts of the film, "edie & thea: a very long engagement." we will play part of wednesday's landmark oral arguments before the supreme court. we will also host a discussion on same-sex marriage and the future of the lpg -- lgbt rights. all of that and more coming up. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

afghan police say five civilians, including four children, were killed in a night raid by afghan and international special forces in the eastern province of klo -- logar. while the afghan defense ministry claimed there were no civilian deaths, reuters video showed heavily damaged houses and the bodies of a least three children. the attack was reportedly carried out to rescue two afghan soldiers keller -- captured by the taliban. at least one of the victims planned u.s. soldiers. a >> i have lost my two sons and my husband and operation. my house is totally destroyed. >> from 9:00 at night until 5:00 in the morning, our houses were under martyr attack. and this massacre you see is done by afghans and americans. this has been done by americans. >> afghan official said 23 members of the taliban were also killed in the attack. a spokesperson for nato's international security assistance force told afp it was

"aware of the allegations of civilian casualties" but said foreign troops were not "directly involve." banks in cyprus are reopening today after being shut for nearly two weeks with new controls in place to prevent people from emptying their bank accounts. cash withdrawals are limited to 300 euros, or $384, per person each day with limits also imposed on how much can be carried abroad. the electronic transfer of funds out of cyprus is banned. officials fear mass withdrawals after it was announced major swaths of larger size deposits would be used to pay off banking debts under a $13 billion international bailout. mass protests against the bailout continued wednesday as thousands took to the streets in the capital. >> i think we should leave [indiscernible] and do this on our own.

they forced us to take these measures. in my opinion, the public has done nothing wrong. >> the supreme court heard arguments wednesday about the defense of marriage act which denies federal benefits to legally married same-sex couples. during the proceedings, the majority of the justices seemed ready to consider striking down the law. the case before the court who had edie windsor, to pay a $363,000 realistic tax when her wife, thea spyer, died in 2009 because the federal government did not recognize their legal marriage. edie windsor spoke outside the court on wednesday. >> today is like a spectacular event for me. i mean, it is a lifetime kind of event. i know that the spirit of my late spouse thea spyer is right here watching and listening and would be very proud and happy of where we have come to.

>> you have more on the historic case before the supreme court after headlines. thousands of teachers, school workers, parents and students joined a mass protests led by chicago teachers union wednesday against the city's plan to close 54 schools, most of them in african-american neighborhoods. the about 150 people sat down the road outside chicago city hall and locked their arms together, prepared to risk arrest. roughly 130 people were detained by police. teacher phil cantor was one of them. >> closing schools for about 12 years now, not a way to improve schools. now they're closing 54 or more in one year. it is outrageous. it is not one help the students. it will destroy neighborhoods. we're doing civil disobedience because we have to stand up. we cannot just keep plugging these things happen without reacting. >> some 30,000 students will be

impacted by the closings. chicago mayor rahm emanuel has defended the closings saying he does not want students trapped in failing schools. in a move that could further inflame tensions with north korea, the united states has confirmed it flew stealth bombers capable of deploying nuclear weapons over south korea thursday. it is the first time the u.s. has confirmed flying b-2 bombers over the korean peninsula. north korea had already severed military contacts with south korea and set conditions have reached "simmering nuclear war." in turkey, riot police used a water cannon and tear gas against syrian refugees who threw rocks as a protest against poor conditions at a camp near the border. the campsite is one of the largest in turkey, housing roughly 35,000 people. wednesday's violence highlights a growing regional crisis as

turkey, jordan, and other countries struggle to accommodate more than 1 million people who have fled the two- year conflict between syrian president bashar al-assad and the rebels. a washington post investigation has revealed a woman recently promoted to head a top cia division played a key role in the agency's discredited detention and interrogation program after 9/11 and signed off on a decision to destroy videotapes of torture. the woman, who was not named because she is undercover, served as chief of staff to jose rodriguez, the former cia head of clandestine operation. in 2005 she and rodriguez signed in order to destroy tapes of interrogations that a secret prison in thailand where two prisoners had been waterboarded. according to the l.a. times, she also ran a black site prison overseas. the official is mentioned in the senate intelligence committee report that accuses top officers of misleading congress about the effectiveness of the

interrogations'. she became acting head of clandestine services at the end of last month. one of the first decisions faced by the new cia director john brennan is whether to keep her in the post. fiveest imprisoned for months during argentina's military dictatorship has issued a statement clearing jorge manuel bergoglio, now pope francis, of playing a role in his arrest. francisco jalics was addressing reports bergoglio had passed along information about him and another jesuit priest that led to their detention and torture. he now says -- his statement appears to contradict what he originally told argentine journalist

horatio verbitsky. he appeared recently on "democracy now!" and said jalics had confirmed a report of the second priest, who has since died, that bergoglio was involved in their imprisonment. and healked with him confirmed the story but he did not want to be mentioned in my piece because he told me that he preferred not to remember this and he was his life for oblivion and pardon. that he was very resented against bergoglio for many tors, but he had decided forgive and forget. >> to see our interview with its key, you can go to

democracynow.org. an estimated 50,000 activists from nearly 130 countries around the world are gathering in geneva this week for the annual world social forum. the five-day event kicked off tuesday with a march in the capital tunis, viewed as the birthplace of the arab spring. each year pro-democracy activists me to envision a more just world and mobilize around issues of that to austerity, environmental devastation, gender injustice and more. it is the first time the forum has been held in an arab country. roughly 100 algerian activists meanwhile will not be attending the forum after they were barred from traveling there by algerian authorities. the group of activists were reportedly prevented from crossing the border on monday. in the u.s. come out which is spreading over a rider dubbed the monsanto protection that was attached to a spending bill signed by president obama last week.

critics say the quietly passed provision weakens regulation of genetically modified foods and undermines the ability of federal courts to block potentially dangerous crops from reaching consumers. because was attached to the bill averting a government shutdown, members of congress may not have realized there were voting for it. on wednesday, food activists protested in front of the white house. of more than a quarter million people have signed a petition against it. walmart appears to be retaliating against groups that have organized historic protests against its labor practices. the retailer filed a lawsuit against the united food and commercial workers union and its affiliated group, our wal-mart, in a florida court. the suit accuses the groups of trespassing on walmart property 73 times in 13 states over the past year. walmart workers are not unionized, but the ufcw has demonstrated in support of employees' calls for better pay, benefits, and working conditions. state senators and arkansas have

voted to override the veto of a bill requiring voters to show photo id before casting a ballot. the state house is expected to follow suit despite numerous legal challenges that have blocked or weakened prior voter id laws, 19 states have reportedly introduced proposals this year to enact new voter id requirements or strengthen existing ones. virginia governor bob mcdonnell signed a strict photo id bill into law earlier this week. brazil is continuing to face controversy over its upcoming hosting of two world athletic events. a stadium in rio de janeiro set to host part of the 2016 olympics has been closed indefinitely because of problems with its roof. the news comes days after brazilian riot police forcibly evicted an indigenous community from a former museum next to another stadium that will host the next world cup. a group of indigenous brazilians have been living in the building next to the stadium for more than six years and said they

wanted to use it to showcase their culture. instead, police armed with batons, teargas, and pepper spray raided the building so it can be destroyed. protesters continued to wrap up the resistance of the keystone xl pipeline -- which would carry tar sands oil from canada to texas -- as they await word from president obama and whether he will approve it. in houston, texas, on wednesday, a protester, a 50-foot flagpole and hung a banner denouncing a firm that processes tar sands oil. lyondellbasell is reportedly planning an upgrade that will allow it to process nearly one- quarter of the pipeline's capacity. the group tar sands blockade accuse the company of environmental racism for polluting a largely latino area. on wednesday, the street in front of the firm's office was blocked off as firefighters used a ladder to remove a protester from the flagpole. before his ascension, the protesters said his action was

connected actions against keystone xl last week. >> we just had a week of action where we saw over 55 actions across the country and over 60 people got arrested, sending a clear message to anyone who hopes to invest in the tar sands that resistance will only continue if they do try to profit off of the people suffering. >> the magazine adbusters has launched a new campaign targeting financial firm goldman sachs, calling goldman -- "the most powerful and unrepentant of the financial fraudsters." adbusters has called to shut down all of the 73 global offices of the firm read it in credited to spark the occupy wall street movement that ignited the country in 2009, calling for protesters to use the twitter hashtag goldman. and analysis revealed the prominent role u.s. citizens play in drug trafficking along the u.s.-mexico border. a report says three out of four people caught with drugs by u.s. border patrol agents are u.s.

citizens. four out of five drug busts -- that is 80% -- involved a u.s. citizen. the number of u.s. citizens caught by border agents tripled from 2005 to 2007 -- 2005 to 2011, this shift some have attributed to unemployment in the u.s. president mandela is 94 years old, has suffered a series of recent health problems and is in the hospital related to a lung infection. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. of historic supreme court arguments on the legality of same-sex marriage have concluded. on wednesday, the supreme court considered the constitutionality of the defense of marriage act, which denies federal benefits to legally married same-sex couples. doma was signed into law by president clinton in 1996. the law specified the word marriage meant only a legal union between one man and one woman for the purposes of any

act of congress or any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the u.s. the lead plaintiff in the case is an 83-year-old lesbian named edie windsor who sued the federal government after she was forced to pay additional estate taxes because it did not recognize or marriage to a woman, thea spyer. before we discuss wednesday's hearing, we want to begin with the story of the woman behind the case. they're the subject of the documentary, "edie & thea: a very long engagement." >> i grabbed her head. we made love all afternoon. that was the beginning. >> it was about 1962. i suddenly could not take it

anymore and i called an old friend of mine and said, if you know where the lesbians go, please take me. someone brought thea over and introduced her and we ended up dancing. >> we immediately fit. our bodies fit. years. we have had 42 then when i have this that prognosis, acidulous of bad -- so bad that had about a you to live and that's it. >> she woke up the next morning and said, it to you still want to get married? i said, yes. she said, so to buy. >> as the years go by, that feeling of attraction stays the same. [indiscernible]

when i look at edie now, she looks exactly the same. >> i thea spyer. >> i thea spyer, take edie windsor to be my lawful wedded spouse for richer and pour. >> in sickness and health until death do us part. a clip from the trailer "edie & thea: a very long engagement." passed away in 2009. her widow, edie windsor, sued the federal government after she was forced to pay additional estate taxes because it did not recognize their marriage. this is edie speaking on wednesday just after the supreme court heard her case. >> today is like a spectacular event for me. it is a lifetime kind of event.

and i know the spirit of my late spouse thea spyer is right here watching and listening and would be very proud and happy of where we have comoe to. >> also outside the court on wednesday, one of edie windsor's lawyers, james essex, of the aclu, spoke about the potential impact of the case. >> there are 130,000 married same-sex couples in the u.s. today. what doma says is the recourse the federal government to treat those 130,000 married same-sex couples and married in each of those 1100 different federal contacts. that is what caused what happened to edie to happen, that she was treated as unmarried despite the 44 years she had with the woman who became her spouse. they spent four decades together, in good times and bad, sickness and in help, just like any other married couple. for the federal government to

pretend their marriage did not american andir, un unconstitutional. >> that was james essex, lawyer and director of the aca do's lgbt project, the lawyer who defended doma before supreme court, paul clement, did not stick with reporters after the case was heard. during wednesday's arguments, a majority of the justices seemed ready to consider striking down male law. when we come back from the break, we will talk more about the hearing. we will be joined by marc solomon who was at the supreme court to hear the arguments, the national campaign director of freedom to marry, one of the leading campaigns to overturn doma. back in a moment. ♪ [music break]

that was elton john "chapel of love." this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. let's turn to wednesday supreme

court hearing with justice elena kagan's questioning of paul clement, the attorney defending doma, which was passed by congress in 1996. >> is what happened in 1996, and i'm going to quote the house report, congress decided to reflect an honor of collective moral judgment and to express moral disapproval of homosexuality. is that what happened in 1996? >> does the house report said that? of course it does. if that is enough to invalidate the statute, then you should. but that has never been your approach. it suggests we will not strike down a statue just because a couple of legislatures may have had improper motive. we will look rationally, is there any rational basis? >> that was attorney paul clement responding to supreme

court justice elena kagan's questions. marked -- marc solomon was at the supreme court to hear the arguments wednesday and a challenge to the constitutionality to the defense of marriage act. about the significance of that interaction and what the court was light yesterday. >> sure. that interaction in particular was justice elena kagan highlighting the fact this law was created out of discrimination. it was really the first time the federal government has created its own sort of definition of marriage to exclude gay people because they're really afraid or congress was afraid of progress on the marriage front in hawaii. >> talk about this document. >> it was a house report that accompanies legislation. there is a report that talks

about the purpose of the legislation. it is very clear in talking about moral disapproval of homosexuality. so it is pretty hard to get away from that. >> there were gasps in the room and she asked the question? >> yes. it was a reminder of where this law comes from and what its purpose is, and it is simply to deny loving, committed, same-sex couples who are married the federal government's huge protections. >> during wednesday's argument, justice ruth bitter ginsberg said, effectively creates two kinds of marriage. >> additional benefits, they have every aspect of life -- your partner is sick, the social security.

as justice kennedy said, 1100 statutes and it affects every area of life. whatould be diminishing the state has said is marriage. you are saying, no, the state says there are two kinds of marriage. the full marriage and the sort of skim milk marriage. >> skim milk marriage. >> when i was getting my bagel and coffee this morning, i asked for whole milk. for the first time in a long time. i think what she is talking about, in america we do not have second-class citizens nor should we have second-class marriages. and that is exactly what the so- called defense of marriage act does. >> supreme court justice anthony kennedy is seen as a possible swing vote in the case. wednesday, he expressed skepticism about the legality of

doma. this is kennedy questioning paul clement, the attorney defending the defense of marriage act. >> it applies to over 1100 federal laws i think we were saying? quite a bit of an argument that if it is a tax deduction case, which is specific, if congress has the power and can exercise of for the reason it once. i suppose it can do that. whichen it has 1100 laws, in our society means the federal government is intertwined with the citizens' day-to-day lives, running inrisk of conflict with what has always been thought to be the essence of the state police power, which is to regulate marriage, divorce, custody. >> first of all, the very fact there are 11 hatter provisions

to federal law that defines the terms marriage as spouse, there is a long way -- as a long wish on the federal law has not stay completely out of this issue. it has gotten involved. paul clementyab respond to supreme court justice anthony kennedy. marc solomon? >> i think justice kennedy's position is marriage has always been in the province of the states, the states determine what eight marriages and what it is a and the federal government simply recognizes for the purpose of federal treatments and respect, recognizes marriage performed the state with the exception of marriages of gay couples. and they were talking about how important all of these different protections, federal protections are from edie windsor having to pay $363,000 in estate taxes

when her wife died, if her partners and had been theo instead of thea, she would not have had to pay any taxes. it goes on and on. there are these typical stories of married couples, married in their state of new york or iowa or washington and on and on or just treated as a legal strangers by the federal government. >> i want to play another excerpt of the supreme court's oral arguments wednesday when justice elena kagan focused on the underlying motives of congress in passing the defense of marriage act in 1996. >> historically, the only uniformity the federal government has pursued is a uniformly recognized marriages that are recognized by the state. so this was a real difference in the uniformity the federal government was pursuing. and it suggests that maybe

something, maybe congress had something different in mind than uniformity. so we have a whole series of cases, which suggest the following, which suggests that a groupgress started that is not everyone's favorite group, that we start looking at those cases with some record that say, do we really think that congress was doing this for uniformity reasons or do we think that congress pass judgment was infested by the smite, fear, and so forth? it goes to the question the statute raises, the statute that does something that has never read them before, is whether that sends up a pretty good red flag that that is what was going on. >> red flag. >> i think she is right. the arguments that our opponents were making is the only reason were the primary reason for the

defense of marriage act was to have some sort of uniform definition federally and not to discriminate against gay and lesbian couples. she is saying, look, why did you pick this category and of all the different categories you could have chosen? it raises a giant red flag that the reason you did it is because you have a problem with gay people, not because you want one standard. the only real consistent standard is to say, we will respect marriages performed in the states, which is what they had always done in the past they go the reason we're playing some an eclipse, it is unusual to have the audio clips of the supreme court of the supreme court oral arguments so quickly. marc solomon, your group had something to do with that. >> we know how much interest there is. the lgbt community, and america,

really, deserves to know what is going on. we also know the more people hear the arguments of our side and our opponents, we do better. we win. we wanted the information out as quickly as possible. >> talk about the climate in the court. was there anything particularly that stood out, surprise to? everyone talking about the swing voter, justice kennedy and he stood on this compared to where he's to the day before on prop. 8? >> i caveat to that, you never really know what is going on based on these questions. sometimes people are challenging, being the devil's advocate for the sake of just processing different arguments. but people were certainly listening carefully to what justice kennedy was saying. he certainly is uncomfortable with this law, the way he talked about that was intrusion into the historic powers of the state

to deal with marriage and family law. but there was definitely people watching carefully when he spoke up. i think the other thing it was fascinating to me and great for this cause, our opponents did not argue in any way shape or about defending why gay people should be excluded from protections or even from marriage. they did not talk about the difference bugaboos that used in the past. it was uniformity, uniformity, uniformity. you can sort of car a giant hole through easily. --re was no anti-gay explicitly anti-gay comments. >> talk about legal strangers. >> that means -- we saw the clip

of edie and thea. they were married. they were married in their hearts for 40 years, then they got married legally in canada and was recognized by the state of new york. but to the federal government, they are treated as legal strangers. what that means, i will give a very clear example, we have a couple -- a lesbian couple of whom want is a service person. she was killed in afghanistan. notify hery did not wife first, they notified her biological family because they consider her spouse as a legal stranger. and that is just not american. it really isn't. it is not the way the federal government should be doing things. it should be respecting the marriages performed in the states and the relationships.

>> i want to get into a discussion about where if doma is struck down what this means, or not, as the supreme court heard these two major cases this week on marriage equality, we want to look at how the issue has impacted the lgbt movement overall. scot nakagawa is joining us along with marc solomon. he is a well-known blogger and longtime lgbt activist. on monday he wrote an essay called, "why i support same sex marriage as a civil right, but not as a strategy to achieve structural change." the piece drew so much traffic he crashed his server twice. he senior partner of the grassroots social justice think tank. his work on same-sex marriage extends back into the 1990's when the issue is part of the focus of the national gay and lesbian task force. ,arc solomon is still with us one of the leading campaigns to overturn the defense america act.

scot, your thoughts on these historic two days in the supreme court? >> i find it is very exciting. i'd like many other people watch on tv with bated breath. i have been in a 19-year partnership. my partner is everything. we have been through sickness and health, richer and poorer and face the same struggles that couples struggle with. i'm hoping we get a good outcome here. watching this case is a fascinating study on how this issue has moved since i first encountered it in the 1990's when the task force to me to a way to help decapolis they're fighting on this issue. -- set me to hawaii to help the cabalists they're fighting on this issue. >> talk about this case that's -- piece that crashed worser twice. >> in a broad sense, the mayor

to issue, while very important, a step toward greater freedom, it is not the whole ball of wax. there's much more we need to fight for. i think we recognize most people in our society do not live in traditional family arrangements. most of us actually live outside those arrangements and deserve to also have the protections of our government. while marriage is an important so right and we should fight for that civil right -- after rocket is a civil institution -- after all, it is a civil institution. it is not just a legal fight, it also says our relationships, our love is not legitimate. that is something that attacks people deeply and emotionally. i think people are concerned about taking care of the whole community. when you talk about lgbt people, you're talking about a community. we represent every part of

society. we are rich and poor, of every race, culture, age, class, gender. we are a community that is forced in struggle creating an identity, has had to fight for injury that i did it with pride. we embrace one another in a way -- we are a bridge community. we come across traditional the fights in society. we want to make sure as we move forward if we do not forget there are more of us out there for him marriage is simply not going to be satisfying. many of us do not live in conjugal relations. we live in extended and blended families. many of us choose not to get married. if we choose not to get married, we face many struggles that we face now. i have been with my partner for 19 years and we own three homes together during that time. we have never owned a home together. we have never been able to get a mortgage to gather. it makes getting a mortgage

awfully difficult. if at any time one of us had died in this relationship, there was no way to really protect ownership of those assets. lab place someone at james who is in a heterosexual partnership. she chooses not to get married and she has to pay taxes on her medical benefits we provide her. these are the kinds of concerns i think we need to look back. i think many of us also recognize from looking back at history the kind of divisive effect the certain things can have. i'm not saying winning marriage rights will result in that community around this issue, but we should have a robust conversation about it, talk about what it means when the more radical demands of the civil-rights movement basically lost momentum when the 1964 and 1965 [indiscernible]

] gains were made. structural lost steam. we don't want that to happen in our case. we care for each other too much. >> in your article, you talk about lgb, not lgbt. why? >> at one point i dropped the 't' because i think you're standing conservative about challenging the gender binary. what was making an argument for is marriage is essentially a conservative institution and the demand is the conservative demand. by conservative, i do not think we should equate the demand with newt gingrich, for example. people here conservative and i think they think i mean reactionary. does not fundamentally

change the way society views families or the government provides for family. that is why i dropped it. >> marc solomon, your response to what scot nakagawa is saying that the >> there is a lot you're saying that i fully agree with, especially the idea that marriage for our lgbt community is not everything. it is an important milestone. it is something that a lot of same-sex couples really want and want to be able to take care of their families and what this is vital recognition, etc. but there are also plenty of other needs our community has from employment nondiscrimination to youth suicides to seniors who really don't have great care. i think the challenge is to use the power and the momentum that

we're building to the marriage fights to secure other gains. i hope that is part of the wecussion that we have as will fully approach victory and not terribly distant future. >> i am not arguing for eit her/or. there are many other issues on the agenda. and my work with change lab, we primarily deal with asian communities in issues of race that is the main focus of the work. is ahing that we do with minority stereotypes. that meet by people internalize the stereotype and it makes it difficult to organize people to deal with real structural problems around racial inequality. i think we all internalize the

met, everyone of us does regardless of race, but some of us to actually exhibit the characteristics of the stereotype ambitious, academic achievers who are very success- oriented. those are we come to actually and biting the stereotypes, the easier it is to internalize it. the closer you come to fit in that nuclear family definition, the more easily we internalize it, the more easily it naturalizes and becomes difficult to see a some of those things really do not include other people. i really want to make the point that my objection is to the framing of this in the mainstream media. that is the last great issue, that is the future of the lgbt movement i think we need to talk beyond marriage about what the whole agenda is and where marriage fits into it. when we have the right to marry,

and i believe we will, i'm going to get married. >> i'm going to turn to a comment from edie windsor speaking wednesday on the steps of the supreme court after the justices heard her case but it originally is called windsor vs. united states, but once it is to the supreme court, it becomes united states versus windsor. >> many people ask me, why get married? i was 77 ithea was 75. maybe we were older at that point, but the fact is, everybody treated as differently. it turns out marriage is different. i've asked a number of long- range couples, gay couples who got married, i have asked them, was it different the next morning? the answer is always yes, a huge difference. when our marriage appeared in the new york times, we heard from literally hundreds of

people. playmates and schoolmates and colleagues and friends and relatives all congratulating us and sending love because we were married. so it is a magic word. for anyone who does not understand why we want it and why we need it, it is magic. >> that is edie windsor, who lost her spouse in 2009 thea spyer thea, and together that is why she brought this lawsuit that ended up challenging doma. scot, his marriage magical? >> marriage certainly has the power to legitimize relationships. for generations marriage has been howling and relationships as legitimate. i think people feel really positive about it. main path in life is an organizer. to change, you have to speak

people's hearts and not just their minds. i think marriage does that for the community. when people are hungry, they do not join marches to protest against poverty because it will put food on their table, they do to win recognition and respect and acknowledgement of their humanity in spite of their poverty. i think this is one of those issues for the lgbt community or something similar is happening. it is legitimizing institutions, one that says something about your relationship is recognized not just by the government, but by major cultural institutions that we would hope they would be. it is a cultural meaning to marriage and i think it works like magic and making people feel as the relationships are a legitimate. i hope we can look beyond that and start to see more and more kinds of family arrangements that are legitimate, but i certainly think it has that affect. >> a want to go to break and come back to this discussion. we're talking to scot nakagawa, a longtime lgbt activist who i

wrote "why i support same sex marriage as a civil right, but not as a strategy to achieve structural change." solomon, national campaign director for freedom to marry. we will be back in a moment. ♪ [music break]

>> love is in the air. shows theow.org images of edie and thea through their four decades. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. several of the supreme court justices spoke wednesday about

how the obama administration have continued to enforce doma, even though it would no longer defend it in court. obama himself spoke about the defense an attack during an interview wednesday with the spanish-language news station telemundo. sexi've known a lot of same- couples who were committed, raising kids. for them to be treated differently i think is not fair and i think an increasing number of americans agree with that. i think it is time for the justices to examine this issue. i certainly believe those states that have made the decision to recognize these couples as being the federalt government has to respect that decision by the states. that traditionally has been how it works. state's defining marriage of the federal government has followed the lead of the state's. my hope is the court reaches these issues and that we end up living in a country where

everybody is treated fairly. that is what i think is the most important thing about america become president obama. as we go beyond doma, whether or not it is struck down, can you respond to president obama, scot nakagawa, but also talk about where you see the movement going? >> where i hope to see the movement going is to address more and more nontraditional families we live in and seek protections for those families. when the majority of the people in any given society live in or live outside traditional nuclear families, what happens to those families is of great consequence to all of us. not protecting us families makes as all hon.. i would like us to come together and articulate an agenda and figure out where it fits into a broader struggle toward achieving the common good. >> marc solomon, your group is

called freedom to marry. where do you go from here? we do not know doma will be struck down. >> long term, we want to not take anything for granted and really one to ensure we win. marriageorking to win and four states -- illinois, rhode island, delaware, minnesota. >> what does it mean if doma is struck down? >> it means couples like edie windsor a couple of years ago, couples who are married in new york and the eight other states where there is marriage for gay couples, are eligible for all of the same protections that straight married couples get. from social security to tax benefits and tax treatments.

>> 1100 laws are affected? >> yes, and some are really significant. there are some really terrible stories of people who have been denied them. we're guandique making the case for why doma -- we are going to keep making the case for why doma is wrong, and the integrity of marriage and one matters to gay and lesbian people. we are not certainly catching our chickens yet. we still have work to do. >> and the move and you envision, the issues in particular, scot, that you would like to see addressed? >> i would like to see advanced for everyone. i would like us to see us make our family lost more roomy so we all fit in them. i certainly think we need to be part of the fight for greater security, more access to more things. for instance, many of our

welfare regulations have a narrow view of family. i think we need to correct that. it has real economic consequences for people. it is about piecing together the way these lost it more and more people, every part of our community. >> thank you both for being with us. i want people to weigh in on our facebook page and twitter as we continue this discussion. ,arc solomon and scot nakagawa thank you for being with us. ,nakagawa's article online "why i support same sex marriage as a civil right, but not as a strategy to achieve structural change." we look more at the remarkable the caseind challenging the constitutionality of doma. edie windsor short and long life and deep love with her late wife thea spyer. in 1967, thea proposed marriage

to edie, even though they knew it was not a possibility. in 1975, thea spyer was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. in 2007, doctors told her she only had a year to live. she reiterated her proposal to edie. were married in canada. let's go to another clip from the documentary, "edie & thea: a very long engagement." it was directed and produced by susan muska and greta olafsdotti. >> she woke up the next morning and said, do you still want to get married? i said, yes. she said, so do i.. >> i have about another year to live and that was it. >> max. >> max. thediately, as soon as

doctor left the room, i just knew said. yes and now and quick. >> usually people do this because they're making a commitment, as they say, at the beginning of their lives. for us, it is at the other end. >> i work as a marriage ambassador. i went to marriage equality meeting and i went -- i knew some had been married in canada. how i and asked if how -- went about getting an official enbridge canada's first openly gay judge. we were thrilled to be married by him. i had to get the airplane tickets for everybody and hotel rooms. then i spoke to someone in the sales department rid i did not tell them it was a same-sex marriage. i just email them saying i did not want any figures on the cake

because i had them, which is us. >> i had a very strong feeling this would be my last trip on an airplane ever. i was very emotional about that. wanted vows and exchange rings. change the vows very little. other called each lawfully married spouse. pronounced by to marry. we wanted to do it in the most classical fashion possible. >> for thea to put a ring on my finger is not easy. >> impossible. >> so two of the best women would hold her arm and put the

ring in bent and move it toward me. and i will slide in. say, "withtrying to this ring, i thee wed." >> as the years go by, that feeling of attraction stays the same. each one of us in fact looks different from how with when we met, but if i look ifedie now, she looks exactly the same to me. exactly. and she will say the same thing the other way. >> dear friends and family of edie and thea. we are gathered together today to witness a very happy and long awaited event. edie and thea, you're here to obtain legal and societal recognition of your decision to accept each other totally and permanently. , you haveast 41 years

been dancing. you have come to know and love each other. you have found joy and meaning together. you have chosen to live your lives together. unite ineek to marriage. until this moment, your brought the fullness of your hearts, the dreams that i knew together, and that particular personality and spirit which is uniquely your own. i thea spyer. >> i thea spyer, choose you edie windsor, to be my lawful wedded spouse for richer and poorer. untilkness and in health death do us part. as you edithh

windsor and thea spyer have consented together in wedlock and a pledge your faith and trust to each other and the presence of these witnesses, and having gone from the same which you have said and by the giving and receiving of rings, now therefore i harvey braun son, judge of the interior court of justice, and to the marriage act of ontario, do hereby pronounced you edith windsor and thea spyer to be legally married spouses and partners for life. congratulations. >> an excerpt from the documentary, "edie & thea: a very long engagement." democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]