06/18/13 06/18/13 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! imagine a future 10 years from now or 20 years from now when the united states of america is still holding people who have been charged with no crime and a piece of land that is not part of our country. a newobama appoints special envoy to close guantanamo, a group of senior american doctors has decried the prison at the medical ethics freeze don't in the pages of new

england journal of medicine. they're calling on military doctors to stop forcing dozens of hunger striking prisoners. we will speak with george annas who co-authored the letter. then as the g-8 meets in our land, the garden reveals u.s. and britain conducted extensive surveillance and foreign diplomats attending the 2009 g- 20 summit in london and even set up state internet cafés to spy on foreign delegates' computer use. we will speak with glenn greenwald >. >> there is this massive surveillance apparatus being constructed in the u.s. that already has extremely invasive capabilities to monitor and store the communications and other forms of behavior not just of tens of millions of americans, but hundreds of millions, probably billions of people around the globe. >> all of that and more coming up.

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. just over a week after publicly admitting he was the source to repeal the national security agency's sweeping domestic spy program, whistleblower edward snowden defended his actions in an online chat. speaking to guardian readers and journalists, snowden indicated he remains in hong kong after arriving there last month, but did not confirm his exact location. he stood by his assertion that as an nsa contractor he had the capability to wiretap anyone in the u.s. with a personal e-mail address. at one point, snowden was asked when exactly he made the decision to come forth. he said --

we will have more on snowden with glenn greenwald, the guard in journalist to whom he made his disclosures, after the headlines. president obama meanwhile defended his ministrations top- secret domestic spy program during an interview on pbs trolley rose show that aired monday night. obama drew a line between his administration's efforts and those of the bush administration. he also claimed that nsa surveillance is transparent because requests are submitted to the top-secret foreign intelligence surveillance court. >> it is transparent and that is why we set up the fisa court. the whole point of my concern before i was president, because some people say, welcome obama was this raving liberal before and now his dick cheney and

sometimes he says, he took a block stock -- my concern has always been not that we should not do intelligence gathering to present -- prevent terrorism, but rather, are we setting up a systems of checks and balances? >> china has issued its most direct response to reports of sweeping online surveillance by the u.s. and foreign ministry spokesperson made the comment on monday. we believe the united states should pay attention to the international community's concerns and demands and give the international community the necessary explanation. >> edward snowden revealed last week the u.s. has been hacking computer targets in china and hong kong for years. apple has become the latest tech company to it that receiving a flood of requests for user data from u.s. law-enforcement agencies under the top-secret prism program revealed by snowden. on monday, apple said during a six-month period ending in may, it received as many as 5000

requests from local, state, and federal agencies involving as many as 10,000 user accounts. facebook and microsoft have also admitted receiving thousands of requests for user data. russia and the u.s. say they remain at odds over how to respond to the crisis in syria following talks on the edges of the g-8 summit in northern ireland. russian president vladimir putin has blasted the u.s.'s decision to arm anti-government rebels. he spoke alongside president obama about the conflicts that have killed more than 90,000 people. of course our opinions do not:, but all of us have the intention to stop the violence in syria, to stop the growth of victims as of the situation peacefully, including by bringing the parties to the negotiating table >> president of them announced additional $300 million in u.s. humanitarian aid for syria and

neighboring countries coping with refugees from the crisis. speaking at the g-8, president obama also announced formal talks for a massive free-trade deal between the u.s. and europe will open next month in washington. the deal could seek tariffs and other trade barriers eliminated between u.s. and 27 european countries. the british prime minister david cameron touted the transatlantic trade investment partnership as possibly the biggest bilateral trade deal in history protests are continuing outside the g8 summit with thousands gathering to voice their opposition to u.s. foreign policy, informal devastation, and global austerity. the credit reports britain has been some $78 million on security for the g-8 with thousands of police on hand, but so far protests have been peaceful and only two people have been arrested at the summit. hundreds of thousands of demonstrators took to the

streets in cities across brazil monday, marking the largest protests there in decades. the wave of actions capped weeks of smaller protests that began following a hike in public transit fares. soon is are a nationwide amid growing outrage over government corruption, inequality, failing public services and police brutality against demonstrators. on monday, roughly 100,000 people marched in rio de janeiro alone while in the capital some protesters stormed the congress building and scaled its roof. turkish news reports say 87 people have been arrested in a series of raids targeting those suspected of participating in weeks of anti-government protests. turkey's interior minister said 62 people have been arrested in istanbul alone with more arrests in the capital. police earlier to take roughly a dozen demonstrators who defied a government crackdown by remaining in istanbul's's taksim

square, which has been at the center of protests challenging the turkish prime minister. nato forces in afghanistan had the leadership up security efforts in the country to afghan forces during a ceremony in the capital kabul today. the u.s.-led occupation will remain in afghanistan until the end of next year, purportedly in a more supporting role. and the same day the transition was announced, a suicide bomb blast in kabul killed least three people. meanwhile, the united nations children's fund says the never talk casualties and a u.s.-led activities has sharply increased. during the first four months of this year, at least 14 -- 440 children are hurt or killed, an increase of more than 25% from last year. international and afghan forces were deemed at fault for 14% of those casualties. u.s. and yemeni demonstrators joined a gathered outside the u.s. embassy in yemen to call

for obama to comply with his five-year old promise to close guantanamo and transfer dozens of yemenis and other prisoners back home. former u.s. diplomat colonel ann wright was among them. >> i say the u.s. must close guantanamo. clear the prisoners that face no charges. at the u.s. must release those prisoners. we also must not our drone strikes in yemen. they are very dangerous. they kill innocent civilians. there are better ways to deal with terrorists. >> more than 100 of guantanamo's 166 prisoners are on a hunger strike. we'll have more on the force feeding of prisoners after the headlines. in a victory for voting rights, the u.s. supreme court has ruled states cannot require proof of citizenship from those seeking to vote in federal elections. the 7 to 2 ruling struck down an arizona law requiring people to provide documentary proof of citizenship when filling out a

federal registration form. attorneys for the plaintiffs said tens of thousands of people in arizona have been barred from voting by requirements. in indiana woman who drew international support when she was sentenced to death at the age of 16 has been released after nearly 30 years in prison. paula cooper became the youngest person on death row in 1986 after her conviction for killing an elderly bible teacher. her case drew calls to spare her life from people around the world, including pope john paul ii and the victim's grandson, biu -- bill pelke. she was released early for good behavior after sentence was commuted to 60 years in 1989. she earned a college degree behind bars. the washington post has revealed the faces of more than 120 people are being stored in massive state databases that are used by law-enforcement to identify people deemed relevant to investigations. the databases were initially

created to prevent drivers license fraud, but also contain photos of millions who have sought non driver state ids's. more than half of u.s. states allow federal or local law enforcement to comb through or request searches of the databases in order to identify suspects or even innocent bystanders by matching photos against images from surveillance footage or social media. the most commonly used facial recognition programs were honed in iraq and afghanistan to identify insurgents, but are now being used domestically with few legal restrictions. "the post" reported -- house republicans are expected to bring a bill banning abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy to the floor today. the measure backed by the

arizona congressmember trent franks would become the strictest anti-abortion bill in the decade is the congressional vote. president obama has vowed to veto the been calling it an assault on a woman's right to choose. as the court-martial of u.s. army whistleblower bradley week,g entered its third the court heard arguments on whether the military should more quickly release records related to the trial. media outlets have accused the government of interfering with their coverage by delaying or barring access to materials and heavily redacting those documents that are released. democracy now! is a plaintiff in the case brought by the center for constitutional rights along with the nation, wikileaks, the guardian, and others. federal prosecutor recusing the owners of more than a dozen 7- eleven convenience store franchises of imposing a system of modern-day slavery against undocumented workers. u.s. authorities seized 14 stores in new york and virginia

while dozens more remain under investigation. according to the prosecutor, many of the workers targeted were from pakistan and the philippines. >> the franchise owners we have charged were engaged in a pattern of fraud and worker exploitation that involved stolen and kennedys, false information submitted to their payroll provider, and a systematic exploitation of the most illegal immigrant work force that they sought out and they employed. the market workers were routinely forced upon threat of job loss or deportation to work upwards of 100 hours a week, to live only in the house is the descendant own, and were given only a small percentage of the money they earned. >> nine owners and managers were arrested monday. authorities also found 18 undocumented workers victimized in the alleged scheme who are now facing possible deportation. the director of u.s. immigration

and customs enforcement has announced his resigning to take a job in the financial sector. as head of ice since 2009, john morton presided over record deportations including more than 400,000 in the last fiscal year alone. he will leave the agency next month to take a high-level position at capital one. those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. the prison 100 strike at guantanamo bay has entered its 133rd day. lawyers say least 130 of the 166 remaining prisoners at guantanamo are refusing to eat as part of the hunger strike that began in february. began,he hunger strike pressure has been mounting on president obama to address the crisis. on monday, obama formally named the attorney clifford sloan to become his new special envoy for closing down guantanamo. sloan served as an associate

counsel to former president bill clinton and as an assistant solicitor general under former president george h.w. bush. he was also once the publisher of the website slate. on monday, the obama administration publicly identified for the first time the 46 prisoners at guantanamo whom it plans to hold indefinitely without charge or trial. the white house says these men are too dangerous to release but cannot be prosecuted. they include 26 yemenis, 12 afghans, 3 saudis, 2 kuwaitis, 2 libyans, a kenyan, a moroccan, and a somalian. the pentagon released the names after the were sued for its release. >> as the hunger strike continues, the military's practice of force feeding is coming under increasing criticism. a group of top us doctors and public health specialists are calling on their colleagues in the military to boycott the mass force feeding of prisoners. in an article for the new england journal of medicine,

three medical professors from boston university wrote -- the article goes on to write -- for more we go to boston where we're joined by george annas, one of the co-authors of the new england journal of medicine article. he is a professor of health law, a bioethics and human rights at the boston university school of public health. he is also a professor in the boston university school of medicine and the school of law. he is the author or editor of 16 books on health law and bioethics. professor george annas, welcome to democracy now! talk about your piece in the new

england journal of medicine that he co-authored. >> thank you. the piece is, as she said, a call to the american physicians, especially military physicians at guantanamo, to stop force feeding hunger strikers. this has gone on long enough, almost since guantanamo opened. there have only been to the mass hunger strikes, one in 2006 that was broken in by bringing so- called restraint chairs that look like the old chairs that were used for executions, the electric chairs where you are strapped and with restraints and have a to manually inserted up your nose and down your esophagus and that is used to feed people while they're restrained for often as many as two hours. it had really been done until this mass hunger strike.

something that has nothing to do with medicine, opposed by all medical groups that have taken a stance on the ethics of force feeding hunger strikes including the world medical association. even the american medical association, which is historically quite conservative. there is no real question that during this is wrong for a physician to do. the question is, how to stop them? what we have seen, the positions at guantanamo are young, mostly guys, recent graduates from their residency program, isolated out there with no real support from their colleagues. our call is to try to get civilian colleagues to support them if they decide, as we think they should, to stop force feeding the hunger strikers critics who are these doctors that are doing this? could you say more about them? >> one of the things that guantanamo is the entire base is

basically on permanent lockdown. it is very difficult to get there. it is not open to civilian physicians at all. you need special permission or court order to go down there. we don't know the names of any of them. it is all kept secret. they don't wear name badges. when they do, they have made of names like names of cars, for example. it is a very strange environment for physicians to be working in -- for anyone to be working in. >> on the issue of force feeding as a form of torture, can you explain the distinction between a prisoner choosing or willing to risk the end of their life by refusing food and committing suicide? >> yes. toave spoken on this issue medical groups from many years. in the beginning i found many

physicians -- well, as long as you're doing it to save someone's life, they may be mentally ill, that is what doctors do. the first thing to know about hunger strikers, we're talking about hunger hunger strikers, those who know the risks and benefits of what they're doing and are protesting their conditions. we're not talking about someone who is mentally ill, some kind of anorexic or other conditions. secondly, there's a long history of hunger in the united states and the world. it is essentially the only thing a prisoner can do to protest their conditions. the reason the u.s. government and other governments have come down so hard on hunger strikers is that it is very effective. it really scares the prisoner, the people holding the prisoners. as president obama set himself two months ago, i don't want

them to dine. it is not that they want to die, they would be thrilled if they got the issues they wanted, if there were released, for example, that is really all they're asking for. they're not asking for death, but they're willing to risk death to make their point. they are not suicidal. even u.s. military has stopped selling the hunger strikers are suicidal. striking is so effective because people can identify with that. we dealt with it is not to eat. the less we know what it means not to eat. it is a very effective way to show how serious you are about your issues. >> i want to turn to former guantanamo prisoner sami al- hajj the only journalist held at the present. he was held for more than six years without charge. in january 2007, he began a

hunger strike there that lasted 438 days until his release on may 2008. i spoke to him in december in qatar where he works for al jazeera. he talked about being violently force fed during the hunger strike. they bring a to but too big to put up your nose and down into your stomach. >> when they take it, they take it by force. >> so they jerk it out of your nose. >> yes. it is not cleaned. after they put it in the other guy, -- >> they use the tube they used in the person seated next to you and then put it into you without cleaning it. >> you see the blood and everything. >> did you say when they would take the tube of the man next to

you, shove it down through your nose in to our stomach, would you say something? did you ask why they're doing this? >> yes, they told us, we want you to break your hunger strike. asked us to break our hunger strike. >> that was former guantanamo prisoner sami al-hajj speaking in the headquarters of al jazeera in doha. you can go to democracynow.org to see the hour. professor george annas, as you listen to that, even of force feeding was not done in that way, violate cut hard to say that because it may be a bit redundant, but he is saying they used tubes that were too big or particularly painful and would take those tubes unwashed and go

from one to the next. this was at the time when he was there. can you talk about this? using purpose of restraint chair is to try to break the strike hunger, but both of those techniques to talk about, using tubes that are too large and reusing them that were used on another prisoner are specifically against protocol, against policy. it certainly could have been done but it was not policy. it is policy to use the small tubes and never to reuse them. but again, that is certainly possible that that happened to him. plausible that happened to him. chair hasrestraint been called by world medical association cruel, inhuman, degrading treatment and certainly is not using it the

way that was just described -- using a the way was just described is akin to torture. of the genevaion conventions to treat humans in that manner. virtually everybody agrees with the exception of the department of defense that what is going on at guantanamo to force feed the hunger strikers is cruel, inhumane, integrating. >> alec ask about one of the drugs being used in the force feeding of the hunger strikers. according to al jazeera, a new policy of force feeding hunger strikers at guantanamo includes the recommended use of a controversial drug that may cause serious neurological disorders, including one that mimics parkinson's disease. the british-based group reprieve father in its report this week with the fda demanding an immediate investigation into the use of the brain altering metoclopramide.

i just don't know enough about that to respond. it strikes me as unlikely that is being used in any systematic way, but i don't know. that is one of the big problems about guantanamo, how much we don't know. while we know is bad enough and we don't know i think is shameful. i don't think this should be any secret medical protocols or secret medical treatments and the medical treatment given to any patient anywhere in the world should be public information. not the name of a person, but the technique, so other physicians can comment on it and people can know if it is reasonable to do or not and what the side effects are. >> the senior staff attorney for the center for constitutional rights recently appeared on democracy now! and talked about what president obama could do to close

guantanamo. >> there are things the president can do on his own in his administration starting now. number one he can appoint someone within the white house with the stature and backing in the authority to get the job done. he said guantanamo needs to close, that it is a national security liability and legally unsupportable, morally wrong and unjust. the world knows it, the american people should know it, obama knows it. it needs to close. appoint someone to lead the effort to foreclosure. signal to the secretary of defense to star certify people for transfer under the national defense authorization act, and list the blanket ban them-lift the blanket ban that continues on repatriations to yemen that he and post that is clearly within his control. but their specific things he can do. >> president obama saying he appointed this person to close

guantanamo, to begin to talk to congress. what she's saying is that president obama has in his power the release of more than half the prisoners because they have been cleared for release already. >> i agree with everything she said. i don't know- whose loan is, but i'm sure he is a good and powerful man. the state department has no authority over guantanamo at all, it is part of the defense department. the president says he wants to close guantanamo. he is the press -- president. he has the authority to instruct the closure of guantanamo, to figure it out, it is an order from your commander in chief, figure it out. it is just not credible for him to continue to say from almost his first day in office, "i want

to close guantanamo," and do nothing to accomplish that. >> professor, are you satisfied when it comes to the role of doctors at guantanamo? >> no, i'm not. that is one of the reasons we wrote this piece, to try to get doctors more involved. i anderson and wind it all want to get involved. like everyone else, they don't know what is going on there, so it is very hard for them to say, it should stop. i think that excuse is gone. i really think organized medicine and individual physicians have to do whatever they can do to bring this issue to their colleagues. organized medicine is apt to pretty powerful force in this country. it is never been organized to close a specific policy of using or the government using physicians for their own purposes as they're being used

in guantanamo. but i think it could be. i think we may be very close to that. it is very good the american medical association's president has come out strongly to stop the force feeding. americanou mention the medical association and the american psychiatric association took a strong stance against these of psychiatry dollar- , theiatrist being used debate raged. it was similarities dc? >> you are correct. the main difference you can see is psychiatrists are medical doctors, bound by the have a actit growth-both not against the best interests -- interestsoath not act against their best interests.

they did not want the use of their psychiatrist in guantanamo at all. bound byists are not the accredit oath. it all doctors say they're not want to corporate and four- speed build-force feed, the response of the military and it would be, well, then we will have the nurses do it. i think the nurses want to it is the doctors do not order them to. it does not necessarily solve the problem to get the doctors out of it. on the other hand, it is a powerful move because as long as the positions are involved, they could make a credible argument to the american public and say what we're trying to do is do good things.

besttried to do what is for their patience with their patients' consent. as long as the doctors are involved, it is very difficult for anyone who doesn't know all of the facts to see anything wrong is going on. >> george annas, we will have a link to the letter you co- authored in the new england journal of medicine called, "guantanamo bay: a medical ethics-free zone?" law andssor of health ethics and human rights at boston university school of health -- public health. when we come back, glenn greenwald on the latest nsa leaks. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. we turn now to the latest news in the nsa surveillance scandal. on monday, president obama and edward snowden gave extensive

interviews on the surveillance programs snowden exposed and obama is now forced to defend. obama drew line between his surveillance efforts and those of the bush a ministration. he reaffirmed his insistence that no americans' phone calls or emails are being directly monitored without court orders. >> what i can say unequivocally is that if you are a u.s. person, the nsa cannot listen to our telephone calls and the nsa cannot target your emails. >> and have not. >> and have not. they cannot and have not by law , unless they -- the fbi -- go to a court and obtained a warrant and seek probable cause, the same way it always has spent. growing up, watching movies, you wanted to set up a wire time,

you have to go to a judge and show probable cause. >> obama's comments came as to pull numbers showed his approval rating has dipped 8% since the nsa disclosures emerged early 26 ago. the drop was even higher among young voters. in his interview, president obama was asked about the extradition of whistleblower edward snowden. >> after going public as a source behind the nsa disclosures just over a week ago, edward snowden reemerged on monday after several days of quiet. and in on-line chat with the british to newspaper the guardian, snowden rejected what he called severe adverse to panama as a spy for china, saying his had no contact with the chinese government. he also defended his leaking of classified nsa documents, saying he deliberately chose not to reveal --

snowden indicate he remains in hong kong after arriving there last month but would not confirm his exact location. he also stood by his controversial assertion that he as an nsa contractor had the capability to wiretap anyone in the u.s. with a personal e-mail address. in comments suggesting maybe concerned his life is in danger, snowden said more leaks from the way no matter what happens to have. he said -- in the latest of his disclosures, the guardian of london reported sunday the u.s. and britain spied on foreign diplomats at two international summits in london during 2009.

pretends and as a counterpart, the gchq, established fake internet cafés to spy on foreign delegates' computer use and the nsa shared information on the phone calls of the russian leader dmitry medvedev. the revelation came just as the g8 summit opened in ireland, with president obama in attendance and britain again playing host. all this comes as the obama administration appears to be stepping up its efforts to defend the surveillance programs snowden exposed. before obama's interview on pbs monday, the national security agency disclosed it investigated less than 300 phone records seized in the broad collection of metadata last year. the agency also said the monitoring has foiled terror plots in the u.s. and 20 other countries, and not to release details this week. the head of the nsa, general keith alexander, is appearing before the house intelligence committee today in a rare public hearing. for more we're going to glenn greenwald, a columnist for the guardian of london who broke the

nsa surveillance story earlier this month and a number of other sins, including snowden coming forward as the nsa was a blower. he is back home in brazil after returning from hong kong were edward snowden is believed to remain. on monday, glenn greenwald moderated the online chat was snowed in the guardian. welcome back to democracy now! a lot has been happening. it to say the least, yet been very busy. talk first you moderated the discussion yesterday. what most surprised you or should i say what do you feel is most important about what edward snowden, the nsa whistleblower, wrote yesterday and was asked? >> i think the key thing is is that he emphasizes the character being made of him that he is some sort of spy are setting out to destroy the u.s. is completely inconsistent with his behavior. he could have released all sorts of extremely damaging, even crippling, documents.

he could have sold them to foreign adversaries if you wanted to enrich themselves. none of those things are what he did. he said he carefully vetted the documents he turned over to us and to the washington post and urged us that we then conduct our own reviews to make sure the documents that end up being published are ones that are truly in the public interest. i think what you see is a person who was very disturbed by this massive for surveillance apparatus built in the u.s. that defies not -- spies not just on the u.s. but the world with little oversight. he made it clear his intention was to inform citizens even at the extent of the threat of his liberty and even life. a >> during his chat, snowden was asked to respond to the recent comments by dick cheney. dick cheney called snowden a traitor who may be a chinese spy. >> edward snowden? >> i think he is a traitor. i think he has committed crimes

by violating agreements given the position he had. he was a contractor but have been granted top-secret clearance. i think it is one of the worst occasions in my memory that someone with access to classified information do enormous damage to the national security interest of the u.s. becauseply suspicious he went to china. that is not a place to ornella one l. goh if your interested in freedom and liberty and so forth placet is not normally a where you would want to go for freedom and liberty as a corporate >> edward snowden told the guardian readers --

what is your assessment of the criticism of edward snowden from both the rights and from liberals, support by president obama? >> the criticism completely converges. in fact, i recall very well during the bush years of 2006- 2007 when there nsa scandal was raging that exactly the same arguments were being made about those of us who are writing about these programs and those who had leaked them and publish them that they were traitors, endanger national security, it engaged in all sorts of attempts to harm the u.s. back and you heard from democrats, none of whom were saying that, now under a president that is a democrat, many are mimicking exactly those same believes. dick cheney at least some minimal credit he is being consistent -- horribly -- but insisted in contrast to these

were critics of drones are criminals or leakers are criminals who now completely have done a 180 reversal now that it is a democrat in office. by far the most vehement and vicious attacks on our reporting and the stories we have been writing, not from republicans, but from democratic partisans involved in politics and the media. >> glenn greenwald, the g-8 summit is taking place. can you talk about the latest release from edward snowden about the u.s. and british government using internet cafes, phone taps, etc. to spy the-20 delegates during 2009 summit? >> ssure. i did not participate in that story but it was significant not because it shows that the u.s. and britain are spying say on the russian president, which i

think everybody expects a probably a lot of people want, the significance is twofold. one, they're spying very aggressively on their own allies under the guise of advising -- inviting them to the summit, but the bigger part of the story shows how sophisticated the eavesdropping capabilities are of western governments and specifically of their intelligence and surveillance agencies. so this is what i think is the critical aspect of all of these stories which is there are these extremely invasive capabilities being assembled by these governments that allow all kinds tricks in an effort to protect themselves from spine, and we ought to have as part of our debate and understanding of what these capabilities are so we can have a real discussion about the kind of limits that should be imposed on them. that is what happens when the spying agencies creek is

capabilities in the first instance they direct that other governments and possible countries, but always end up creeping further and further toward domestic surveillance. we ought to know what these capabilities are so we can anticipate them and plan for them and talk about ways to limit the amount of abuse. drawing asm, distinction between exposing domestic surveillance and blowing the whistle on form espionage, saying their separate and a back talking about programs like this one that was uncovered on britain spying on foreign leaders, distracts from the issue of domestic spying. journalistic inquiry is there a significant interest and is it outweigh whatever harm you may cause? on the continuum of the public interest, i think at the very top end of that spectrum in terms of public interest is when the government engages in a massive surveillance on its own

citizens without sufficient evidence of wrongdoing, which is what most of our stores are focused on. i think after that comes when the government of the u.s. and its allies are spying on citizens of the world without suspicion, there is a huge loss to privacy, internet freedom and liberty when the nsa spies on innocent people who are not americans live in other countries as well. i think the far end of the spectrum, when government spy on other governments. i agree the public interest there is less than it is when the nsa spies domestically, but it is not nonexistent. we need to know the capabilities are so weak and act before they start being applied domestically. most of our stories have been and will continue to be stories about how the nsa treks its surveillance at americans and citizens are around the world indiscriminately without any of its of wrongdoing was called yesterday --

>> so let's go to what president obama said in the charlie rose interview when he said he could say unequivocally that we are not listening to your phone calls, is says the nsa cannot listen to your phone calls and obama said they cannot target your emails and have not unless they get a subpoena. can you talk about that? >> i am staggered by how deceitful and misleading that claim is from president obama. it is worse than misleading and deceitful, it is outright false. this is a store we're working on, with the fisa court really does and what it is called oversight but is really a fig leaf when it monitors the nsa. under the 2008 feisal law, which replaced the 30-year feisal loss in 1978, the principal change is the u.s. no longer needs an individual warrant when it listens in on a telephone call

or reads the email of american citizens when they communicate with people outside the u.s.. it is true when american citizens talk to other americans on u.s. soil, exclusively domestic communications, the nsa legally is required to get an individualized war from the fisa court before they can listen to the content of those communications. but when an american citizen talked to some outside the u.s. who is not a u.s. citizen and a target of those communications is the person outside the u.s., that is completely legal for the nsa to eavesdrop on the call or read the email without going in getting a warrant. that is the whole point the 2008 law. remember, the bush a ministration a 2005 got caught eavesdropping on the conversations of american warrant.without a what that 2008 law did was legalized the bush program by requirements.

they go back to the fisa court to redefine. the fisa court stems and approval stamp on those guidelines and the nsa is been empowered to run collecting what ever calls and emails they want. they can force the telecoms and internet providers to give them whatever content they want, which often includes american citizens talking to these foreign targets without any kind of search warrant. when president obama says no one is listening to your phone calls or this thing to your emails without first getting a warrant, that is false. it is true they cannot deliberately target u.s. citizens for that, but it is also the case there frequently engaged in surveillance of exactly that kind of evasive technique involving dispersants. one less thing, just go to google and read about this. ron wyden and mark udall repeatedly have been asking the nsa, the american telephone calls and emails are you

intercepting without warrant under this program. the nsa continue it tells them, we cannot provide you with even a rough estimate because they do not have it tech capabilities. this idea president obama never listens -- saying and never listen to americans is utterly false. >> we have to take a break and want to play another clip of president obama speaking on charlie rose on pbs monday night glenn greenwald is the award winning journalist who has onken the nsa leaked story edward snowden has come forward as the whistleblower who released the tremendous amount of affirmation about the nsa and his role as a consultant working in and nsa office in hawaii as a consultant for booz allen hamilton. we will be back with glenn greenwald and 30 seconds.

♪ [music break] >> "mr. telephone and." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. is glenn greenwald. he is back in brazil from hong kong where he broke the major stories on the national security agency and what it is doing with our e-mail, phone calls, and much more. >> i want to go back to obama's

interview monday night. obama dismissed fears the bulk collection of metadata could be abused. >> the very fact that there is all of this data in bulk, it has the enormous potential for abuse because there will say, we start looking at metadata, even if you don't know the names, you can add to that. and there's a call to a doctor or lawyer, compared up and figure out maybe this person is dying in writing their will and you could deal of misinformation. all of that is true. except for the fact that the government under the program to do that right now, it would be illegal. >> obama saying we have a trove of information but it is not access unless there's probable cause. your response? >> first of all, the fact there are legal constraints in place as we've seen repeatedly throughout history is completely meaningless if there is no meaningful and robust oversight. there is nobody that looks over

the nsa's shoulder and find out who's metadata there linking to the actual identity of the person whose metadata they're investigating putting together dossiers. it is within the discretion of the nsa checked only by other the executive branch agencies to determine that. secondly, there is nothing easier in the world than linking these telephone numbers to any individual. anybody could do that with little effort. the american government the nsa collects these men that -- as of data about these people that enables a picture to be put together that is very invasive. whether or not there are rules the nsa has adopted internally that say, you can only do this if your reasonable believe the person is engaged in wrongdoing is completely independent of the fact as obama himself says there is massive potential for abuse inside an agency that is incredibly secretive. and as for a few checks and

mechanisms for limitations on that abuse. i think that is the key point. we have had more debate in the last nine or 10 days over what the nsa is, what it does, then we have had in the last 10 years. all to mali, that is what our journalism is it intended to achieve, drag this out into the spotlight and make us understand what the nsa's capabilities are, what potential for abuse there is at and what the checks on that abuse are. >> i want your response to republican congress member peter king of new york speaking to cnn last week. he called for your prosecution over the reporting of done in edward snowden's revelations. washey willingly knew this classified information, then i think action should be taken. especially something of this magnitude. i know the issue of leaks and the past few months -- there is an obligation both morally and both legal against a reporter

disclosing something which was so severely compromised national security. a a fact if the matter, number of reporters have been prosecuted. the answer is yes. >> glenn greenwald, your response? >> first of all, i would defy anyone to look at anything reported and identify single piece of affirmation and even conceivably has harmed national security. the idea with some hot tip of terrorist to the fact the u.s. government is my turn their telephone calls and emails is complete idiotic. in the terrorist who is alive has known for many many years the u.s. government is attempting to do that. the only thing we have revealed are things to the american people that they did not know about how their communications, not that of the terrorists, are being monitored. sallee, the thing in the u.s. is called the constitution and the first amendment to it guarantees the right of freedom of the press. what that means, if it means

anything, is the right as a journalist or even just as a citizen engaged in journalism, go and investigate what our government is doing in the dark and use the mechanisms of the press to inform our fellow citizens about what it is they're doing. that is the heart and soul of investigative journalism. if you take peter king at his word that any time after 60 secrets are revealed, it would mean that any investigative journalist by definition is a felon and ought to be prosecuted and criminalize. there was a column in the washington post from the defender of the bush administration's torture regime, also saying that i committed felonies in the washington post it as well. it is incredible how menacing that is. if you're looking threats to the american special security, should go with the people that are calling for prosecutions in this case. >> are you afraid for your safety?

your privacy, etc.? >> i think if you look at what the u.s. government has been during the last five or six years, it would be irrational to dismiss the concern that they may prosecute journalists. they have embraced the theory is that to criminalize journalism. they convened a grand jury in the wikileaks case even though wikileaks did nothing more than report. they embraced the theory that james rosen was a co-conspirator in felonies by talking to his source. of course there is a concern that this kind of legal jeopardy will become real, but it is not a fear that will determine anywhere from continuing to report very, very aggressively on the stories. >> bradley manning is being tried at fort meade, the headquarters of the national security agency. can you talk about the significance of that and how they are related? >> i think the critical context for everything that has happened here from snowden's leaks to his

association -- decision to leave the u.s. and goethe hong kong, at the context is this incredibly vicious and unparalleled war on whistleblowers the obama administration has been waging rid that war on whistleblowers as biblically apparent in the case of bradley manning as anywhere else. here's someone who did not release any top-secret of affirmation. it was secret and classified. the zero evidence any national security harm came from it. certainly no evidence he intended any harm. he could of so that information or given it to a foreign government that was hostile to the u.s. and did not do that. his intent was to blow the whistle. he is almost certain to be in prison for the next 20 years, probably if the u.s. government has its way, for the rest of his life at the age of 25. as the u.n. found, he was subjected to abuse of detention practices and so when you say that ed snowden should not have left the u.s. or anything like

that, the context is the u.s. government has proven that was a blowers will be severely and harshly treated as a way of deterring and intimidating people from engaging in further disclosures. >> the nsa has promised to come out this week of the tells a on a plot say has been foiled by surveillance. your estimate of what we've heard so far, we've heard talk of phone records being used to foil the subway bombing plot in 2009 and also your assessment nsa saying that the 300 phone records were searched last year. >> this is the playbook u.s. government has been using for i know how many decades to delegitimize any disclosure going back to the pentagon papers with the accused daniel ellsberg of helping the communists in vietnam -- >> we have 10 seconds. >> it is completely irrational. i think any of the claims should be rigorously scrutinized

because they do not stand up to scrutiny. >> to you have any more pieces coming at? >> yes, including in the next couple of days. >> glenn greenwald. we will have a link on democracynow.org. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]