07/02/13 07/02/13 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> like the representatives of the enemy, is this the basis for a constructive relationship on the basis of mutual trust? i outrage over the national security agency spying on the european union and european citizens.

in limboowden remains after he withdraws his request for asylum in russia and ecuador says it made a mistake and helping him leave hong kong. we will speak with kristinn hrafnsson of wikileaks and go to germany for the response of the latest revelations about u.s. spying. a former suez act dictator is detained -- u.s.-backed dictator is detained. contras, was putting hissene habre into power, even though he had a reputation for brutality. >> known as africa's pinochet, hissene habre has been detained in senegal. we will speak with attorney reed brody who is worked with victims of hissene habre's regime since 1999. and we will talk about jean- claude duvalier of haiti and efrain rios montt of guatemala. all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

egypt's military has issued a 48-hour deadline for president mohamed morsi i to yield to the demands of the egyptian people amidst mass protest aimed at forcing from office. the head of egypt's armed forces issued the ultimatum on monday. >> the armed forces warns everyone the demands of the people are not met with the ultimatum given you will find it mandatory upon itself in accordance to its historic national responsibilities and in respect to the demands of the great egyptian people to announce a roadmap and procedures overseen by the alltary that would include groups including the youth who were and still are behind the blessed revolution. >> it is unclear exactly what role the military would take or what action it expects from president morsi before the wednesday deadline. morrissey has rejected the ultimatum, saying he will pursue his own pattern national reconciliation. angryre seat aides said

-- army statement is tantamount to military coup. millions have taken to the streets in recent days to call for morsi to go. the egyptian independent reports to presidential spokesman have resigned and says the prime minister has offered his cabinet resignation, but morsi has yet to accept it. president obama reportedly called president morsi monday night in part to confirm the u.s. still recognizes him as a democratically elected leader of egypt. and afghan capital kabul, at least 11 people were killed today in a suicide bomb and gun attack on a company supplying the nato mission in afghanistan. the police chief said the dead , andded four napoli guards afghan guard and two siblings as well as for insurgents. edward snowden has issued his first outlook message since arriving at a moscow airport more than a week ago. in a statement posted on the wikileaks website, snowden to

dim the obama administration for revoking his passport and pressuring foreign governments to reject his bids for asylum. he compared himself to former nsa official thomas drake and u.s. army private bradley manning in the former nsa, strake writing -- snowden added -- its legal advisers sarah harrison has submitted asylum petitions on snowden's behalf to 21 countries, including china, cuba, india, brazil, and a number of others in latin america and europe. but snowden reportedly has withdrawn his request for asylum in russia after president putin said he could only stay there if you stopped leaking information

harmful to the united states. if he wants to go anywhere and someone will accept him, he is welcome if he wishes to stay here, then we have one condition. he must stop his work aimed at harming our american partners. although it sounds free strange , he positions himself as a fighter for human rights and he is not going to stop this activity so he has to choose the country for himself and go to it read when it will happen, i unfortunately do not know. if i knew, i would tell you. >> president putin also dismissed the idea russia might comply with u.s. request to extradite snowden, saying -- the ecuadorian president repeated monday snowden's fate is in russia's hands.

venezuelan president nicolas maduro said he has not received snowden's asylum application yet, but that snowden "deserves the world's protection." : foreign minister said he would not recommend granting snowden's request for asylum. president obama has continued to face fallout from edward snowden's latest revelation tutor spiegel newspaper about u.s. spying on europeans. speaking during his visit to tanzania, obama said the u.s. would provide its allies with more information about reports the national security agency but offices in washington, new york and brussels. european leaders and threatened to derail trade negotiations. obama shrugged off the criticism suggesting such spying is common. europeanantee that in capitals, there are people who are interested if not and what i have for breakfast, at least what my talking points might be should i end up meeting with their leaders.

that is how intelligence services operate. >> we will have more on edward snowden and u.s. spying in europe with wikileaks spokesperson kristinn hrafnsson and german green party politician malte spitz after the headlines. james clapper reportedly has reported making incorrect statements about sweeping spying. in march, clapper was asked whether the nsa collected data on millions of americans and he replied no. according to the washington post, clapper sent a letter last month saying he misunderstood the question. u.s. government prosecutors have began wrapping up their case against army whistleblower bradley manning as his court- martial injured its fifth week at fort meade, maryland. on monday, prosecutors sought to firm up claims manning aided the

enemy by knowingly al qaeda. a military judge allowed prosecutors to present a wikileaks list of most wanted documents in support of that claim which could carry a life sentence. manning said he gave the classified material to wikileaks in order to expose the u.s. military's disregard for human life and spark a domestic debate about u.s. foreign-policy. meanwhile sunday, more than 1000 people joined a contingent in support of bradley manning at san francisco's lgbt pride parade. supporters dubbed manning a community grand marshall after the events board stripped him of being the official grand marshall. the activists danced and marched behind a massive rainbow colored banner that read "pride in our whistleblowers." human right watch reports border guards and a rack, jordan, and turkey are rejecting tens of thousands of refugees attempting to flee the conflict in syria. the group says lebanon is the only one keeping its borders open while syria's other

neighbors are either rejecting refugees out right or allowing only a limited number in, leaving many stranded at the border. turkey rejected the accusation saying it is currently hosting more than 200,000 syrians in refugee camps. the report comes amid reports of a government siege on the city of homes and the city other syrian -- killing of a steering roman catholic priest by the rebels in the north. thousands of pro-choice advocates dissented on the texas capitol monday to protest republican attempts to revive legislation which would shut down nearly all of the state's abortion clinics and ban abortion 20 weeks after fertilization. building off the momentum of the people's filibuster, an estimated 5000 people gathered to cheer wendy davis who stood for roughly 13 hours last week as protesters and lawmakers shut down the bill. number are great discouraged about the current state of affairs. some of us have felt mad. today is different.

don't you feel it? -- hope,ope read opportunity to be inspired in our democracy. we have witnessed how much we can accomplish when we reclaim our power and require accountability. >> that was texas state senator wendy davis. protesters are expected to gather again today as the texas house committee takes up the anti-toys bill. the full texas house and senate are not expected to meet again until next tuesday. the interest rate for federally subsidized student loans has doubled after congress failed to reach a deal to avoid the hike. the interest rate on stafford loans rose to 6.8% monday when a temporary freeze expired. lawmakers still have a chance to reach a deal on student debt before the next school year. student loan debt in the u.s. $1 trillionarly after roughly quadrupling over the past decade. to top managers at the vaticanba

growing financial scandal. the resignation of former bring erector -- thank director and his deputy came just three days after a senior vatican accountant was arrested. the accountant is accused of conspiring to smuggle $26 million in italy from switzerland. lawyers for a group of guantanamo prisoners have filed a lawsuit to stop the force feeding of hunger strikers at the prison, calling it a grotesque act is that violates human rights. the u.s. military has acknowledged 106 of the 166 prisoners are on hunger strike. 44 are being force fed by tubes being forced into their nostrils than into their stomachs. lawyers are particularly concerned the muslim prisoners might be force fed during the upcoming holy month of in violation of religious practices. more details have emerged on master suicide of guantánamo bay prisoner adnan latif. a military probe has concluded he over toast on a thai

psychoticcoted over a lengthy. until yet inept and is like. -- he courted them over a lengthy period until he was able to take his life. wast least the night foreign prisoner to die guantanamo since the u.s. began jailing foreigners there in 2002 , seven died by suicide. latif had remained neck guantanamo despite being cleared for release several times. one of his attorneys said tater chat has been detained in senegal and could face charges of crimes against humanity more than 20 years after the military coup. he has been accused of overseeing the torture and slaughter of tens of thousands of people from rival ethnic groups. hissene habre's trial would mark the first time an african leader

has faced trial for human rights violations in another african country. a court nader for the legal team representing his alleged victim spoke on monday. definitely a feeling of relief, especially when thinking about the thousands of of victims who fought for more than 20 years to have the right for their grievances to be heard and will finally see their dreams realized. the day they have been waiting for is here. >> more on the case against hissene habre with reed brody of human rights watch later in the broadcast. hyatt hotels and the union unite here have reached an agreement in a four-year fight that's part .lobal boycott of the chain the new contracts would give thousands of employees retroactive wage increases and maintainer healthcare and pension but if it's until 2018. the deal includes a process for hotel workers at a number of locations to vote on unionization. the hyatt chain was founded by the family billionaire commerce secretary nominee per the are. it's alleged abuse of workers

cast a shadow overmore than 80 e arrested during the night weekly moral monday protest called by the naacp to protest the agenda of north carolina's republican- controlled legislature. a major focus of this week's protest was the loss of unemployment benefits to 70,000 people in north carolina, which has just gone into effect. north carolina became the first date in the to disqualify its residents from the aid free at another 100 thousand unemployed in north carolina are expected to lose benefits in the coming months. in california, transit workers have enter the second day of a strike that has halted bay area commuter trains for the first time in 16 years. the strike was called after talks fail to produce an agreement before contract expired. and the newspaper company tribune will pay nearly $3 billion to purchase 19 local television stations, giving it one of the largest holdings of local tv affiliates of the country. tribune, which owns the los angeles times and chicago

tribune, has beking to sell off its newspaper since emerging from bankruptcy in recent months. the deal comes just weeks after the usa today publisher nearly doubled its local tv holdings by purchasing 20 stations. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. the national security agency leaker edward snowden has reportedly abandoned its effort to permanently stay in russia but has submitted asylum request to 20 other countries. his decision comes one day after president clinton said snowden could only seek asylum in russia if you stopped leaking u.s. secrets. if he wants to go anywhere and someone will accept him, he is welcome. if he wishes to stay here here, then we have one condition. he must stop his work aimed at harming our american partners. although it sounds very strange coming from me.

he positions himself as a fighter for human rights and he is not going to stop the site too pretty, so he has to choose the country for himself and goat to it. when it will happen, i am fortunately do not know. if i knew, i would tell you. >> winstone arrived in russia last week, it was initially believed he was on his white ecuador but that prospect is in doubt. speaking to the guardian on monday, the ecuadorian president said a misunderstanding had wrongly fueled rumors snowden was coming to ecuador. acknowledged ecuador's consul in london issued a travel document that allowed snow and leave hong kong, but call that action a mistake free at >> while snowden has been holed up in a moscow airport, news outlets are continuing to report on his leaks. over the weekend, a german magazine revealed the nsa spied on european union offices in

brussels, washington, and at the u.n. the nsa allegedly planted bugs to listen in on conversations and phone calls, and also hacked into the eu computer network to access e-mails. according to the guardian, one nsa document lists 38 embassies and missions as targets, including not just the eu but also japan, mexico, south korea, india and turkey. the latest documents also point to a major nsa spy or upper -- operation targeting european citizens. according to their spiegel, some 500 million unique to medications are monitored in germany alone each month. top officials have demanded an explanation from the united states. >> we expect things to hear from the u.s. authorities and let me state clearly that clarity and transparency is what we expect from our partners and allies and

this is what we expect from the united states. >> to discuss the latest on edward snowden and his spine revelations, we're joined by kristinn hrafnsson, a spokesperson for wikileaks, the whistleblowing website that has been assisting snowden in his attempt to seek a lyrical asylum. she ihe is a former investigatie reporter who was named as planned of the year three times. can you talk about these latest revelations? >> if you are referring to the revelations by der spiegel, this is causing up for ou up for all over europe. leaders of the organizations are disagreeing, spying on their friends is not ok and they're demanding explanations.

the important revelations we are theing from snowden about nsa. >> i wanted to read the statement of edward snowden are part of it because he is speaking out for the first time. on monday, he broke his silence after arriving in russia. in a statement released by wikileaks, snowden thanked supporters and condemned the obama administration for revoking his passport. he compared himself to u.s. army whistleblower bradley manning and fellow nsa whistleblower thomas drake, writing talk about that statement and then what is happening.

it looks like ecuador is backing off a bit or at least president korea said the consulate gave in the travel document to leave hong kong had overstepped not gotten the proper authority and saidnowden apparently has he will not apply for political asylum in russia. >> snowden is right in criticizing that his passport is being revoked and it is outrageous to take away the symbol of citizenship. he is basically left stateless. he is stranded because his passport has been revoked. that is an outrageous act. the he refers to as administration is not afraid of him or thomas to record other important whistleblowers like bradley manning that have stepped forward, he is referring to an attempt to silence whistleblowers to stop the flow of important information to get to the public.

so basically it is a war on information, a war on truth. the attack on whistleblowers we have seen in this country in recent years under obama, now with snowden, people have been charged or persecuted on the basis of the espionage act of 1917, more than in the history of the nation prior to obama. so it is of grave concern. you are referring to the statement by correa and putin, playing down somewhat it seems their support. i don't read too much into it. i think they are concerned about the grave threats and the bully attempt they're subjected to as any other nation. ago, not forget a week secretary of state john kerry threatening nations by saying it

would have consequences for any nation who supports snowden. now of course he has applied for asylum in more than 20 countries. there is been no formal reply except for a few nations to say procedurally an individual has to be in the country to be able to submit his application formally. that was my case -- that was the case in my home of iceland. the ecuadorians are saying similar things. the options that he has have opened up, i believe, because the support and the recognition of the importance of his work is growing, especially in europe. the possibility of being granted asylum in many european countries. >> one of the countries appears to be venezuelan. nicolas maduro said edward snowden deserves the world's

protection for divulging details of washington spy program. >> he said great truth in order to dismantle a world that cannot be controlled, not by an american injury list elite, nor by anyone. these revelations he has made are the most important. a young man of 29 years capable of opening himself up against mechanisms of the intelligence services who spy and want to know everything, who go against friends and enemies, who set up operations, satellites with the help of the internet to my telephones to try to control the world. the revelations of this young man have great value. you must be protected free at he has the right to be protected because the united states will continue to pursue him. the american president, the secretary of state, why are you are succeeding him? did he kill anyone? no. much better, he has prevented wars and stopped the legalities being committed against the entire world. for this he deserves the

protection of the world. when he asks for asylum, we will give him an answer. >> that is the venezuelan president nicolas maduro. kristinn hrafnsson, can you talk about what the u.s. has been doing behind the scenes? obama has said they will not scramble jets to get him, but vice president biden called correa over the weekend. >> not only that we see behind- the-scenes a confirmation there is an extreme pressure being put on nations around the world. despite the attempt to play down by obama last week . you sell the angry reaction -- use all the angry reaction last week by john kerry and others. you see the support from david is women president.

i assure you there is great support among leaders around the world. a statement has been issued where they recognize snowden as -- snowden's concerns for ill- treatment if he returns to the united states and recognize his right to seek asylum under international law. i believe the public outside the u.s. as well as in the u.s., extremely one-sided in the reporting by the mainstream media, do support snowden. in two polls i have seen since last others day, more people believe in the u.s. that he was a patriot than a traitor. earlier report by time magazine showed 53% of americans believe he did the right thing by exposing the secret.

%. he wasears old, 70 10 the right thing. you see a generation of young , distracted by the absurd reporting, so they go to the internet and rely on the internet. it is the generation of the generation. >> we have to take a break want you to stay with us. kristinn hrafnsson is with wikileaks, was also voted icelandic journalists of the year three times. when we come back, we will be joined by malte spitz as well from berlin to talk about these latest revelations about the spying on the eu, the european union, and his headline in the new york times, "germans loved obama. now we don't trust him." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. over the weekend, the german magazine der spiegel revealed the u.s. spied on the eu, allegedly planted bugs to listen in on conversations and phone calls, also hacked into the eu computer network to access e- mails. to talk about the spying revelations in europe, we're joined by malte spitz, a member of the german green party's executive committee. the piece he wrote in the new york times is headlined, "germans loved obama. now we don't trust him." kristinn hrafnsson still with uskristinn hrafnsson,, spokesperson for wikileaks, investigative journalist from iceland. malte spitz, welcome to democracy now! what is the response to these latest revelations? the countries we're talking about the euro spying on, and the european union, our allies of the united states.

[indiscernible] politicians from all political are shocked by the that the u.s. is spying so hard on german citizens, but also on eu institutions and eu countries. confusion in huge people are also quite angry. >> john kerry on monday echoed president obama's comments,

downplaying the u.s. spying on it is notaying unusual. >> i will say every country in the world that is engaged in international affairs of national security undertakes lots of activities to protect and allonal security kinds of information contributes to that, and all i know is that is not unusual for lots of nations. >> that is secretary of state john kerry. malte spitz, did these spying revelations come as a surprise to you cap go -- you? >> not that much. the u.s. iss known .pying all over the world

there are 500 million textidual communication each month. it is a huge part of espionage. i think there is no sense of [indiscernible] any longer. it is the u.s. secret agencies are spying so hard on the so- called threat and ally.

>> malte spitz, if you could talk about your own quite remarkable story, about how you got the metadata on you. i started a lawsuit against not just a phone company here in germany, but i asked them if they -- they should hand the over all of the information they had on me. would beginning, they only can the over regular information like i address and things like that. but i said they also have to store this metadata.

i tried to get them to hand out this metadata they had on me breed in the end, it was six with around 35,000 bits of information read 35,000 times they looked at where i was, what i did, who i called and who i sent text messages for messages. i decided to publish this information because it was important for me to show the public even if you only have so- called metadata, it is also a really large part of your social life. >> if you could talk about this map you made, we were just

showing it and we'll show it again. for the radio listers, you can go to democracynow.org. the cellphone towers are very close to each other in germany, so they are very exact information about where you are him and when you make these calls. it is amazing. this is over six months that you took the metadata and track your self, your own life? >> yes. six months of my life. you can see on this map. phone towerse cell are really close to each other, so you can really trying down people up to 50 meters, so you .lways know where someone is still store this

information. >> based on this information, it sparked an outcry and i understand this issue went court read what happened when you brought this before the law? >> the same time i filed a lawsuit against the telecom company, the resist huge constitutional challenge -- there was a huge constitutional challenge here in germany. around 34,000 people went to the in marchional court 2010, the german constitutional to implement [indiscernible] into german law was unconstitutional. since 2010, there is no such allage of information of the cell phone users, of all the

the debateers, but is going on here in germany the two political parties are in absolute favor of such a system. >> kristinn hrafnsson, here you have a situation of metadata showing so much and what malte spitz is showing us, this was a german telecom that has all this information, and doing this without the nsa. what makes these nsa revelations a significant? you have left being an investigation of -- investigative journalist. you work full-time for wikileaks. why has this revelation by wikileaks that has revealed, or is helping edward snowden, the that worked with the nsa, why are they so significant? this is the kind of data we are seeing, being collected for

millions of people. not only the data from the telephone companies that snowden revealed in his first leak, but also data on the internet, the e-mail use. it will also give you a location because it gives a location with the ip address. who is where sending a message to whom . by putting this information with the metadata, you can paint a detailed picture of the life of the person without listening to the conversation or reading the messages create however, it has been said by experts, it is very hard to distinguish the actual metadata on e-mails, for example, and the actual messages. it has been revealed or confirmed they did not intentionally collect the

content, but it is there. with the revelations dow we have, who would trust the nsa? >> these revelations have led the director of national intelligence james clapper to apologize to congress. in march he told ron wyden of oregon the nsa did not willingly collect data on millions of americans. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. >> it does not read >> not wittingly. there are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly or yet >> james clapper has admitted now he was making false statements and has apologized to lawmakers. he sent a letter to the senate committee last month saying he missed understood the question saying --

>> and he is clearly holding his head. this something edward snowden can use in making his case to the public saying, because of my revelations, one of your top officials was forced to admit he was lying to congress or at least ms. spoke to congress? this is a story i don't see analyzed by the mainstream media here. you could be avoiding a serious issue of lying. not only in the case of james clapper, but also it is known that 26 senators from both arteries have demanded clarification from the nsa.

they are basically saying, [indiscernible] the congress was supposed to have oversight under this cloak of secrecy. how can they do that when they're lied to and misled? that is not a proper function in a democratic society. >> you have this now 30-year- old, edward clapper, who worked for booz allen hamilton holding consultant -- edward snowden, who worked for booz allen and for the nsa in hawaii, now you have julian assange holed up in the ecuadoran embassy in london because he cannot leave for the british authorities say they arrest them, helping edward snowden apply for political asylum. it is quite amazing these two people can take on the national security establishment of the united states and other countries area and kristinn hrafnsson i want to ask you,, why you chose to leave your job

as an investigative journalist in iceland to work full-time for wikileaks? why is this so important to you? after 25 years in the mainstream media and journalism, i was honestly seeing we were not doing our job as journalists. we were failing the public. we had many examples in america. so many examples where journalists have failed prior to the iraq invasion 2003. also examples where mainstream quashed stories because they were asked to, even media we hold in high regard. the new york times, the washington post for example. the examples we see as well is has failed to be the

proper watchdog to those in , and are too much the so read if i mus i may say after spending a week here and sing the coverage in the mainstream media here, i am and they confirmed my worst beliefs about what is going on for you and it is a terrible situation. i have seen how the mainstream media has carefully avoided actually going into the real story, which is the league that snowden has revealed -- which is the leaks that snowden has revealed. they have focused on his personal life and where he is. journalists have even suggested ort he aided and abetted

even digging up dirt on journalist to her during this incredible job read what snowden is revealing is not just the individuals, but exposing the extremely poor condition of journalism today. >> i want to ask you about julian assange and the embassy, since you are working closely with him. 's commentst correa saying there was an oversight in getting edward snowden travel documents to let him leave hong kong, he was expressing a kind of annoyance. in his comments from the guardian he said, talking about julian assange, saying he is a friend of the console and called him at 4:00 in the morning to say they're about to capture snowden, how are we going to save the life of this man? he also expressed respect for julian assange. are you concerned correa is somewhator is

irritated with julian assange right now? is -- i thinks correa was referring to procedural issues here, formalities. i don't read too much into that. i believe ecuador is firmly supporting assange. kristinn hrafnssonkristinn hrafnsson >> thank you very much for being with us,, works with the gimmicks, investigative journalist. i also want to thank malte spitz , member of the german green party. we will have a link to your piece called, "germans loved obama. now we don't trust him." are you heading back to london or iceland? it remains to be seen where i

had read >> hissene habre has been detained in senegal. stay with us.

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. historicn now to a milestone in africa. the former dictator of chad, hissene habre, has been detained in senegal, where he has lived in exile since being ousted in 1990. he is expected to face charges of crimes against humanity and war crimes for systematic torture in the killings of tens of thousands of opponents during his eight years in power. if the case proceeds, he will eventually stand trial in a special court established in senegal after 22-year campaign led by his victims. he would be the first african leader to be tried for atrocities in africa instead of in an international tribunal. likes hissene habre came to

power with the help of the reagan administration in 1982. the u.s. provided him with millions of dollars in annual military aid and trained his secret police, known as the dds. it's believe some 40,000 people died under his rule. clement abaifouta is one of the key witnesses for the prosecution and president of the chadian victims association. in this clip from human rights watch, he shows the field where he was forced to bury more than a thousand people over the course of four years. >> we are coming to the common grave read from here, it is just corpses. every day it was 7, 8, 20, 30, 40. >> since hissene habre fall from power, clement abaifouta another victims have waged a tireless campaign to bring them to trial. justice has long been elusive. hissene habre was placed under house arrest in 2000, but his case lagged for over a decade

until now. for more we're joined by someone who has played a key role in the effort to bring hissene habre to justice. the brody has worked with victim since 1999 and is lead counsel in their case. >> as you said, it has been 22 years. finally last year there were two breakthroughs. first the election of the president of senegal and the victims have been lobbying him for many years. when he came into office, he said he was going to finally allow this trial to move forward. second there was a decision by the international court of justice in the hague that ordered senegal to prosecute hissene habre without further delay if it did not extradite him read senegal and the african union came together encrypted a special court within the courts of senegal to try crimes committed during his period.

the prosecutor has just come back from chad and has all of the dossiers we are put together. finally, he is going to ask for hissene habre's indictment on charges of crimes against humanity and war crimes. >> i want to turn to a film about reed brody's work. he's given a tour of one of the prisons. >>

hissene habre can you talk about the role of hissene habre's victims and bringing him to justice? >> what is interesting about this case, it is not being driven by the hague or some international diplomat or prosecutors, this is a case where the victims are the architects of the effort read it has been this 22 year campaign by people like the people you saw on the screen pressing for justice. it is a very empowering kind of a process. the victims will actually be parties in the trial . the victims will have their own legal team. what we hope is when this trial is broadcast all over africa and the people see the chadian lawyers, the chadian victims presenting their testimony, examining witnesses, cross-

examining hissene habre, that this could be an inspiration to people who are looking for justice all around the world. >> can you talk about the role of the united states and propping up hissene habre for all of the years he was in power? >> the united states saw under ronald reagan hissene habre as a bulwark against mo market off he. just as president reagan took office, gaddafi and then president chad signed an agreement to merge. libyan troops were entering chat occupied the north of chad. the u.s. saw chad as the soft underbelly of the libyan government. secretary of state alexander haig reportedly wanted to aid hissene habre who was then a local warlord as a way of letting qaddafi's knows. the u.s. gave assistance to

hissene habre to help them take power and then gave military and economic assistance to hissene habre throughout his government, even as he was turning his country into a police station. one of the documents that we 'scovered in hissene habre political police, tens of thousands of dockers -- document i stumbled on in the capital, and now we have all of these documents on cd-rom, the list of names of people who died, people in prison. >> and you just families in an abandoned building? >> we were doing a film on the case. we asked to visit the former headquarters of the political police. then we were finding these documents. one of the first documents we scooped up was a document in which several of the members of the dds, the political police,

received training in the u.s. and will be cross checked these names, in fact i interviewed a couple of the people, some of these were the most feared torturers in chad who are receiving training in the u.s.. i don't say they received training and torture because we don't have evidence of that, but the u.s. was intimately involved with hissene habre's political police. there was an advisor. even to the last day of his government, the u.s. was giving a military assistance. >> what about the officials in chad who worked with hissene habre? could this case open the way to charges against him? >> it already has in fact. we have been hoping the approach of a trial abroad would also change the situation in chad because many of these people remain in powerful positions. in fact, one of them, a police chief, who was being sued by his victims in chad, tried to

assassinate the chadian lawyer who is leading the case in chad, she had a grenade thrown against -- thrown at her. in the past few weeks, singer was justice being done on the international front the chadian government has moved to arrested arrest and has arrested many of his accomplices in chad. >> where is hissene habre right now? >> today he is a big police station being held for questioning. the united states under president obama has been very supportive of this trial. he congratulated the president moving forward and the united states is providing $1 million to gather with many other countries for the support of the special court. we are expecting today or tomorrow the indictment of hissene habre on charges of crimes against humanity.

then the investigating judges will have 15 months to investigate the charges. we're not looking at a trial here for another year and a half as these charges are investigated in chad. >> can you talk about the significance, not only of hissene habre being picked up and going to trial in senegal, but you also have these other cases that you have been involved with also. you have duvalier in haiti and efrain rios montt in guatemala. the >> you have three u.s.- backed dictators from the 1980s all facing charges for crimes against humanity. rios mont in guatemala, duvalier in haiti. in each case, it it has taken the victims. in guatemala, those who have fought for three decades are telling their stories again and again, bringing people up to the grave. in each case, the victims have

struggled for all this time. in haiti, people like bobby duval and others who refuse to allow fear to dominate. when duvalier came back into the country, they filed charges. this is a different kind of a justice from the hague. it is a national level where the victims are the architects of the procedure, where the cases are being played out in front of the guatemalan people, in front of the haitian people. in the case of senegal, it is happening in senegal. one of our big challenges for the case of hissene habre is to make sure this trial in senegal is accessible on tv. it makes a difference to people back in chad. but this is a positive development for justice at the national level. >> how will you make the case of hissene habre available to people all over the world? the trial of him? >> the budget we're help put

together together includes over one million euros, $1.3 million, for outreach activities for televisions, for community meetings, for bringing journalist and human rights activist from chad to senegal, bringing journalists from senegal to chad. these countries are very far apart and don't have any direct way, even means of communication are you >> why is it porn to put this trial out of the world? it important for this trial out to the world? >> to show that victims can bring to justice the date hater -- dictator. i think it was inspired by the pinochet case and we hope it will inspire many others. >> reed brody, thank you for being with us, counsel and spokesperson for human rights watch. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]