02/24/14 02/24/14 >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> i am absolutely confident that this is an example which our country and the whole world has seen, an example of a coup. is in a state of crisis as the democratically elected president is ousted following months of protests that left at least 82 did. then we will talk about spying on germans.

home and they started to read my texts without me touching the keyboard. --first reaction was my second reaction was, that is my book. luke harding said that he was being surveilled while he wrote his latest book. gchq, a russian hacker? all that and more coming up. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. ukraine is in a state of crisis after months of protest that have left as many as 82 dead.

the government has issued an arrest warrant for ousted president viktor yanukovych after he fled the capital of key at. -- kiev. >> the mission of the new government is to stem ukraine from heading into an abyss, stabilizing the exchange rate, distribution of pension and aids, helping the development of businesses and jobs. another priority is returning to courts.pean we must return to the family of european countries. haveited states and europe alleged aid to the new government in ukraine. we will have more after the crisis. egypt interim prime minister has announced the mass resignation of his government.

the sudden resignation paves the way for field marshal sec. he has reportedly been asked to remain in his post until a new prime minister is found. in thailand, at clearwire people were killed and dozens wounded over the weekend in gun and bomb attacks. three of the dead were children. prime minister yingluck shinawat has condemned the attacks. venezuela, hundreds of thousands took to the streets over the weekend to protest against president nicolas maduro. at least 10 people have died in the clashes. mexican authorities have arrested the head of mexicans largest drug cartel, joaquin "el chapo" guzman. weekendrrested over the

. he was imprisoned before but escaped in 2001 reportedly using a laundry card. mexico's attorney general jesus murillo karam described how goes mine was able to elude capture previously. this operation had very definitive moments that led to his arrest. the 13th and 17th of february, several of the homes that he used were discovered. we discover they were connected by several tunnels, not only that, but he always used the city's drainage system. the doors to the home where he was found were reinforced with lead, which caused several minutes delay in opening them, which allowed an escape. >> the u.s. will seek his extradition. --t month, the mexican unit newspaper el universal reported that drug agents had secretly held meetings with the sinaloa

.artel reporting taliban gunmen attacked an afghan army base sunday killing 21 soldiers in the worst single assault on afghan forces since 2010. the attack comes as president obama considers how many troops to keep in afghanistan beyond this year. "the washington post" reports that the numbers could be 3000 to zero. president hamid karzai has so far refused to sign a deal to keep troops in the country beyond 2014. chuck hagel is set to release a plan to scale back the army to its smallest four cents world war ii. "newed officials told the york times low score that they -- remain there for

special forces. the resolution was supported by russia and china and china in who vetoed passed resolutions. u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon hailed its passage. shocking to me is that both sides are besieging civilians as a tactic of war. 200,000 people are under siege in government controlled areas and for 45,000 in opposition controlled areas. more broadly, this resolution highlights the urgent need to end the conflict. >> on sunday in syria, abu khalid al-suri, a rebel commander with close ties to al qaeda was killed in an attack. russian court has sentenced seven people to prison terms ranging from two and a half

years to four years for protesting vladimir putin in the bolotnaya square in 2012. the defendants were found guilty friday and sentenced the day after the closing ceremony of the winter olympics in sochi, russia. pussy riot members nadya tolokonnikova and maria alyokhina were detained for protesting outside the court along with more than 100 others. the video streaming site netflix has agreed to pay comcast for faster and more direct access to its subscribers. the deal contained days after, crest agreed to buy time warner, merging the largest and second-largest cable and broadband providers. the latest deal could have major implications for net neutrality. last week, federal regulators said they would not appeal a court decision striking down rules on net neutrality and instead said they would issue

new rules. detroit's emergency manager has floated a proposal to slash worker pensions and retiree benefits in a bid to bring the city out of bankruptcy. under the plan, police and fire retirees would see their pensions cut 10%, while other retired city workers would see their pensions cut 34%. uganda's president has signed a bill criminalizing homosexuality. the measure punishes repeated homosexual acts with terms of life in prison. u.s. evangelicals helped to spread anti-lgbt fervor, with some even reportedly helping to draft the law. in arizona, hundreds rallied outside the state capitol to demand jan brewer veto a bill they say legalizes discrimination against lgbt people.

the bill, passed by both houses of the state legislature, would allow businesses to deny services to lgbt people if they cite religious beliefs. condemnedmegan abhau the bill. >> it open for door for discrimination and it is a huge broad-spectrum for the way the bill is written. we could be kicked out of a restaurant. i am not shy about my activism in the lgbt community. >> the arizona bill is similar to ones that failed in idaho and kansas. in illinois, gay couples rush to get met. -- married after a judge ruled that same-sex weddings could begin in cook county. a law legalizing same-sex marriage in all of illinois takes effect in june. basketball player jason collins

meanwhile has signed a contract with the brooklyn nets, officially becoming the first openly gay player in the nba. in louisiana, a barge carrying crude oil clotted with another vessel in the mississippi river saturday, shutting down a 65 mile stretch including the port of new orleans. and oil sheen was seen on the surface of the river but it's unclear how much oil was spilled. a new investigation has uncovered how failures by regulators to address safety concerns on texas oil and gas fields have fueled unsafe conditions that have killed hundreds of workers. reportsston chronicle" 65 workers died in texas in 2012 alone amid failures to implement safety procedures for the industry. workers did not have relevant training and did not have the authority to shut .own oil and gas sites

exxon mobil has joined a lawsuit against a fracking related project due to fears it could affect the value of homes. heavily on relies fracking which involves blasting water and chemicals deep into shale rock. "ut "the wall street journal reports ceo rex tillerson has joined a lawsuit to block a water tower in texas that would provide water for fracking on the ground that it would create a noise nuisance and traffic hazard. residents of other areas have complained about fracking impacts, including the poison of the water. president obama is renewing his call for congress to raise the minimum wage. two recent polls show more than 70% of american support raising the minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $10.10 an hour. right now there is a bill in

congress that would boost americans minimum wage to $10.10 an hour. wagesill would lift the of millions of americans. even though a majority of democrats, independents, and republicans across the country support raising the minimum wage, republicans in congress do not want to give it a look. last week the clothing retailer gap announced it would set a minimum wage of $10.10 an hour for its workers in 2015. a woman is accused of killing four people at a native american tribal headquarters thursday. the accused killer cherie lash rhoades was a former tribal chairwoman who is the subject of a federal probe into missing funds. she allegedly opened fire at a hearing where tribal members were considering her eviction, killing four people, including her brother, nephew, and

19-year-old niece. city, activists staged a protest inside the guggenheim museum to bring attention to the plight of migrant workers building a new ring ties in, dundee. the group golf labor says migrants from south asia labor in what is essentially indentured servitude. the activists line multiple stories of the museums balconies chanting and dropping banners with slogans like one percent museum. those are some of the headlines. democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. ukraine is in a state of crisis. on saturday, ukraine's parliament voted to remove , asident viktor yanukovych move that he describes as a coup.

i am absolutely confident that this is an example which our country and the whole world has seen, an example of a crew -- coup. ukraine going to leave or go anywhere. i will not resign. --m a legitimate way legitimately elected president. i have been given assurances of security. i will see how they will fill that role. been seen publicly since saturday. earlier today, you cranium's new leaders announced that ousted president was wanted for mass murder of protesters. meanwhile, one of his main rivals, prime minister yulia tymoshenko was released from custody on saturday. meanwhile, europe has embraced the new government. the european union foreign-policy chief is traveling to ukraine today to

discuss measures to shore up the ailing economy. on sunday, the interim president said he would focus on closure integration with the european union. is returningiority to the european integration courts, we must return to the family of european countries. we also believe the importance with our understanding of russia and to build a relation on a goodwill basis which recognizes and takes into account the european choice. i hope it is this choice that will be confirmed in the presidential elections on the 25th of may this year. we guarantee they will fully subscribed to the highest european standards. they will be liberal and fair. theo talk more about crisis, we are joined by timothy snyder, oppressor and the university.

author of "bloodlands: europe between hitler and stalin." his latest piece is entitled "fascism, russia, and ukraine." from the ukrainian city of petro,is nicolai professor of politics at the university of rhode island. been in odessa since july 2013 as a fulbright scholar. do you agree with what the now former president, yanukovych, said that this is a coup? is pretty much a classical coup. under the current constitution, the president may resign or be impeached, but only after the case is reviewed by the constitutional court and then voted by three force majority of the parliament. then the prime minister or the speaker of the parliament must become the president. that is not what happened at all. there was an extraordinary

sanction of parliament after most members were told there will be no sanction and many left town. under the chairmanship of the radical party, this parliament declared the president himself moved himself from the presidency. thatat were the forces brought this about, what is happening right now in ukraine? you are in odessa, what is happening there? >> the situation here in odessa is pretty quiet. i would say that what led up to this is a coalition of three distinct forces. started atgroup that the end of november of last year , jenn civic frustration with the government's decision to delay the signing of the eu association agreement. this was seized upon by the

parliamentary opposition who joined blatantly and pressed the government for further concessions. finally, the actual crew was accomplished thanks to the armed intervention of extreme nationalists, led by the right sector. the fact that they were so instrumental in accomplishing this change of power has put them in the drivers seat. from now on whatever political decisions are arrived at will be at the sufferance of the right to your. snyder, would you agree with this assessment of what has taken place in ukraine right now? >> parts of it are exactly right. i would disagree with certain parts of it. for one thing, when it comes to the question of how these changes came about, it is a little bit reductionist just to

mention opposition politicians, the right wing tom in europe. the protest movement included millions of people all around the country, from all walks of life, both genders, included -- muslims, jews, professionals, working class people. the movementnd of the entire time was something like normality, the rule of law. the reason why this demand can bring together people of different political orientations and regional backgrounds is they were faced up against the previous president yanukovych whose game was to monopolize both financial and political and violent power in one place. legitimacy wasn violated by him multiple times and most protesters agree to that. the second thing i would modify is this idea that what happens

-- where somehow now everything is determined by the right. the parliament is not represented. nobody from the right sector is in parliament. the people making the decisions in parliament come from the conventional local parties. if you look at the people on top, who are they? theacting president is from southeast, a russian speaker, baptist pastor. the two prime minister candidates are from the southeast and speak russian. right winga revolutionary, this is the first thing you go for. who occupies the power ministries. the defense minister is a russian speaker of gypsy origin. the interior minister is half russian, half armenian. the minister of internal affairs is a russian speaker from the far southeast. it seems unlikely to me that this government is something which could have been dictated

by nationalists from western ukraine. this government, if anything, is tilted to the south and east. >> do you think this could lead to a split between east and west ukraine? no, on the contrary. the one thing that could be to a split is some kind of intervention from the outside. data, taken polling over the course of the last 20 years, from all regions of ukraine. in the region do more than four percent of the population express a wish to leave the country. i am pretty sure that the percentage in the united states would be higher than that. the normal responses one percent. ukraine is a diverse country, but that is a good thing. it is a multinational state where there are various ethnic identifications, various political commitments.

theperson who started demonstrations in november was a muslim. the first people who came were university students from kiev. wereext people who came red army veterans. when the regime started to kill people, the first person killed was an armenian. the second was a russian. in the sniper massacre of last week, which led to the change of people who washe killed was a left-wing ecologist russian speaker from -- another was a pol. these people represent a variety of the country. the people who oppose these protests also come from across the country. the good news is, once yanukovych was removed, violence ceased and now we are on a political track in which power is no longer in the hands of an interior minister who is killing people and instead is within the

chambers of parliament. our limit has renewed the 2004 fortitution and has called elections in may. in those elections, people will be able to express themselves in a normal post revolutionary way, and then we can see how things stand. >> last week we spoke to a steven cohen,r, who said that russia is pretty much two different countries. historically, ethnically, religiously, economically, politically, two different countries. one wants to stay close to russia, the other wants to go west. we now have reliable reports that the antigovernment forces in the streets, and there are some nasty people among them, ukrainiang weapons in basis. so we have the possibility of a civil war.

>> nicolai petro, would you agree? >> professor cohen is right that there are very serious ,ifferences between the regions and they go deep to the historical memory of not just what world war ii was about, but what the end of the russian empire was about, when the austrian hungarian empire, and poland, the parts of the ukrainian empire, were about. the professor is also correct on the fact that much of the country does not want to dissolve. there is a commitment to being ukrainian. it would be to everyone's is the parliament really did reach out to the

thatnts of the population have been effectively disenfranchised by the last coup. however, i would tend to disagree because the first apps they have taken our exactly the opposite. repeal of the law allowing russia to be used locally, that is the mania written in the east-west relations. the introduction of a resolution to outlaw the communist arty in ukraine, which effectively is the only remaining opposition party in parliament, the consolidation of powers of the speaker, and acting president, giving him greater powers than any other ukrainian constitution , forcing the caller rest of the president. now we have a parliament that rules without any representation from the majority party. since most of the deputies in

the east and south -- afraid to set foot in parliament, and meanwhile all across the country headquarters of parties are being sacked by their opponents. this is the stage in which we have for the elections in may. will they be fair? there is no money, according to the acting president and speaker . vigilante militias routinely attacked gatherings they disapprove of. werebroadcasts yesterday interrupted by forces claiming to speak for the people. what do you think? to come back to this discussion and talk about the significance of the release of the former prime minister who was imprisoned and brought back in a wheelchair to independents square, where she made her reemergence. this after past president was

fleeing kiev. we are speaking to nicolai petro from odessa. we are also speaking to timothy snyder, a at the university, in vienna, austria.

's 18ths democracy now! birthday. went on air february 19, 1996. we are now broadcasting on over 1200 public collision and radio stations around the world. if you want to send in your photo holding him why you need democracy now!, that is what we

are showing on the brakes. , we areracynow.org streaming the pictures. you can also send us video to democracy now! means to you. we are back with timothy snyder. he is in vienna, austria. his latest piece is entitled "fascism, russia, and ukraine." with us from odessa, ukraine is nicolai petro. i want to turn to statements made by yulia tymoshenko, following her release from jail. she was undressed and protesters in kiev. >> i know that all together we will be able to do it and i will never allow anyone to let you down. a singlet not

politician or official to touch or lay one of their fingers on your life. nothing in my life will be more important. may god give you good health, be happy in your country, and all the sacrifices will not be in vain. lori to ukraine. >> that is the former ukrainian prime minister yulia tymoshenko. timothy snyder, the significance of her release, what she represents? a political prisoner, was the head of the major opposition party. she lost the last presidential elections to yanukovych by relatively narrow margins. for many years, she and yanukovych were the dominant figures in ukrainian public life. observers,rights governments in the west, have been calling for her release. it is a good thing that she was released, it is a step to the

return of the rule of law in ukraine. what it means in political terms is more obligated. she has not been a part of these revolutionary events. she came to them at the very end and what she said to the protesters was rather curious. in a way, prerevolutionary. that there is a civil society, there are self organizing people who can't occupy a place in the middle of the winter for weeks on end which means soup kitchens, people cleaning up, people in hospitals, doctors,, a movement in which the people took part. they are not asking for some to take care of them. in a way that is the old-style politics. many rightly associate key mission go with yanukovych and politics of an old-style. so it is not clear that her return will be as significant politically as it might seem at

the beginning. seen.emains to be i would stress, t mission go, like the most everyone else we are talking about, is a russian speaker from the country. >> national security advisor susan rice warned russia from sending in troops to ukraine. a gravewould be mistake. it is not in the interest of ukraine or russia or europe or the united states to see the country split. it is in no one's interest to see violence return and the situation escalate. there is not an inherent contradiction between a ukraine that has a long-standing historical and cultural ties to russia and a modern ukraine that wants to integrate more closely with europe. nicolai petro, your response? right, but i do -- the discussion of

armed forces seems cavalier. no one is talking about that. in on theke to chime yulia tymoshenko question that you asked, and agree with mr. schneider's assessment. at least in this area of the south, she seems to not have any residents. the perspective is, her appearance is very much a blast from the past, if you will. we have all gone through that before. the hope is that there can be more dramatic changes. a little bit of a disconcerting element to this is her usage of refrain, hailda

to ukraine, which is becoming you teen -- routine greeting for the revolutionaries now. now, the olympics are ending. how does put in see the situation? -- putin see the situation? what would you, say that he sees, is he concerned that this could happen next in russia? >> no, i do not think that at all. what i think is, when people watch what is happening here in ukraine, in the former soviet union, they say, there but for the grace of god go we. this is a very cautionary tale against chaos and corruption as

well, leading to these sorts of extremes. has alreadytin declaring the government theingness to support ukraine, to see the country prospered, and so far, it is worth pointing out, the only monetary contribution on the table right now is the $15 billion that has been offered in bonds, and more significantly, the reduction in the price of natural gas that ukraine is buying from russia right now. whether or not europe or the united states or the international monetary fund will, but anything comparable is much to be hoped for, but right now, there is a lot of dithering on the part of the west. >> timothy snyder, your assessment of what this means for putin?

i would agree completely that he has no immediate reason to worry that this will repeat itself in russia. russia is not ukraine, but in a way, that is the problem for russian foreign policy. which wasn money, offered to ukraine, was offered as an alternative to the trade deal with the european union, but it seems likely there was a price. a major package of $15 billion receded -- and it is no coincidence the laws on the russian model forcing nongovernmental society organizations to register themselves as foreign agents, laws which ban freedom of expression, laws which turn people who manifested on the streets into extremists, which paves the way for martial law, the whole package of laws was the result.

that made the protests much more aggressive and larger. then when the russians the least $2 billion of that, it was a matter of days before the sniper attacks last week which led to the political change we are talking about. the russian didn't put money on the table, but there was a price, -- did put money on the table, but there was a price. now that has failed, and the russians have something to contemplate. ish the european union, it more complicated. they cannot just offer money, the way that the russians did. they need guarantees that the way the money is spent will be in exchange for constitutional reform, free elections. i agree about the significance of that, as well as the participants of a lector it observers. about theee

significance of corruption in ukraine. those discussions are underway. the imf and eu have expressed their willingness. i agree those things are essential. ukraine has been brought to a state of near bankruptcy by its president. yanukovych literally sat on gold toilets in his ridiculously extravagant residence. i would also stress that only financial backing of parliamentary democracy is the thing which can keep the extremists from work into the center, but the people from the west understand that. >> there is an interesting picture in "the new york times," a picture of yulia tymoshenko flanked by the american ambassador and the european .nion leader talk about the united states in

all of this. the clips ofd nd talking about who she once in charge of who she wants in charge of government. what about the u.s. role? i must say, the united states, from my perspective, played a role in the reconciliation process but was not terribly effective because it does not have the necessary .everage that is the only country that has the leverage in the resources and knows the situation well. if there is a country with deep knowledge of this area, i would , we wouldld hope

listen to the advice of our russian partners. but i do also believe there was an error in the assessment of one of the more significant and ultimately determine groups and how they revolutionized. i have to agree with professor snyder. i described a much greater role to the right sector, as they call themselves, the spearhead of the revolution. given the hope of many in the west regarding this revolution, it is especially important to note this group is critical of party politics. it is skeptical of what it calls imperial ambitions of both .oscow and the west the former is easy to understand, the latter, to set

the ukrainian national spirit with all this talk of compromise. what they hope to see emerge out of this turmoil is a new ukraine burnished by the flames of national revolution, able to stand up in opposition to the democratize or's and their local lackeys. i think there has been a strong underestimation of the influence of this right nationalist movement, not in terms of numbers, but in terms of street cred, division they can offer people,n inspire young in the west, and throughout the country. maybe we do not even need a parliamentary system. let's just do something that is more decisive and dramatic and can maybe move the country forward. in a way, it has been stagnating for 20 years. >> when you talk about the

right, who do you mean? for an american audience that knows little about the ukraine. >> there is a parliamentary party now which could be called the right wing party, and that is the svoboda party. they are the ones who convened -- extraordinarily extraordinary sanctioning of parliament. how you would describe them, i believe that for professor snyder. i know that there was any eu resolution that drew attention specifically to the bogota party and called it racist, anti-semitic, and xenophobic. compared to swoboda, the right sector, which has been active in the violence in the streets, is more radical, more militarily

organized, and more willing to use violence. snyder, words, timothy understanding who the right is, opposed to russia and the u.s.? notes, thatofessor is the subject of my specialization. i share his concern. svoboda takes its example from .he ukrainian nationalist the extreme right party i would not hesitate to call fascist. both speak about a national revolution. they are significant. they are less significant than the far right in austria where i am now, less significant than the far right in france, as well as the netherlands, but they matter. the crucial thing is to understand that they become more

important when the system becomes a dictatorship. when the leader of the center-right, yulia tymoshenko, is put in prison, the far right will benefit. when the situation is revolutionary and these people are willing to risk their lives, of course they will become more important. so for all of us who are concerned about the return or normality, stability, the rule of law, it is very important that the revolutionary character of this situation passed now into a normal political process where we can't agree or disagree about who should or should not rule, but where decisions are made in parliament, at the ballot boxes, and not on the streets. in kiev today, the metros are running. there is no looting. the place is peaceful. the presidential residences are being peaceful, as opposed to looters sacking it. if we want to keep both extremes

at bay, from the right, which i do worry about, as well as extremist on the other side, with their support from russia, the most important thing to do is to back parliamentary democracy, early elections, due to things that we can do to make sure that that is the outcome. restoration of a parliamentary constitution and democracy. these are the things that we can help to achieve and ukrainians have already done the hard part. you forhy snyder, thank being with us, from vienna, austria, his latest article, "bloodlands: europe between hitler and stalin." you forpetro, thank joining us from the city of odessa. professor ofrsity politics at the university of rhode island. when we return, we will go to britain to speak to luke harding , who says that he may have been surveilled on while writing a

book about eric snowden. [♪]

>> democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. on the now to the latest growing surveillance state. working in concert have created a system home worldwide mass surveillance, watching everything we do. -- warnedell joined

us of the danger of this kind of information. kind of collection in the book, microphones, tvs in videos, is nothing compared to what we have available today. we have sensors in our pockets that track us everywhere we go. dig about what this means for the privacy of the average person. a child born today will grow up with no conception of privacy at all. they will never know what it means to have a private moment unrecordedes and thought. that is a problem because privacy matters. >> those are the words of edward snowden, speaking in december. we turn now to the remarkable story of luke harding, who says he became the target of surveillance while reporting on it eric snowden. he recently published "the snowden files: the inside story of the world's most wanted man." he revealed while writing the

book on his computer, paragraphs on his computer would begin to sell elite. he repeatedly saw the cursor , gobbling up text, and that was not the only time he felt he was being monitored. luke harding is with us now from london. tell us what happened. before i do that, you have to understand the context. the first three months of last year after the leaks, the governments were scrambling to find out what he had taken, how much he had taken, why he had taken it, and were clueless. in that context, it is hardly surprising that the small number of journalists working on this material, including me, would have been targeted. i was writing my book, about halfway through. glenn greenwald in brazil, to interview him on the which was a curious experience.

back at my home in england, i was writing critically about the the damage that these revelations had done to silicon valley. , and asrking off-line you say, the text began deleting . i thought, my goodness, what is going on? this happened four or five times. jokingly, i would leave notes to this mysterious reader. colleaguese of my mentioned this in a newspaper interview in germany, and then it stopped. i mention this to lay out the facts of what was another curious episode in an already surreal tale. an american who

approached you want you are in brazil. >> that is right. it was quite funny in a way. lenn at a hotel by the seafront. we had to change locations at times because it was clear that there were people trying to eavesdrop in our conversations, and we ended up in a business suite, where he could lock the doors. subsequently, at my hotel, i was accosted in the lobby by somebody who looked like they were straight out of caa central -- cia, military haircut central casting, military haircut, basically wanted to become my friend and take me sightseeing. it was a curious incident. he may have been a tourist.

glenn, one ofto the things that he taught me was that the cia in rio was especially aggressive. his computer had been stolen a few weeks previously. was a lot ofhere u.s. intelligence activity going on. >> remind us about the day that the gchq came to call on the guardian. >> it was one of the most bizarre episodes in journalism. the british government was extremely happy about our ongoing publications from june -- unhappy about our ongoing publications from june about snowden's files. backdoor pressure from david cameron and his most senior officials. basically, they came to see us and said we can do this nicely or we can go to law.

in other words, he wanted the material back, and if not, police would seize our computers and shut down our reporting operations. we explained this was pointless inause glenn had this cap brazil, laura poitras had stuff in berlin. but the british government was not listening. a saturdayated in morning last summer where three of my colleagues were forced to smash our computers in the , watchednd car parks by two spies from the british spy agency, who took photos to record the event, brought along a special machine called a gig de-gausser, which we put our computers through, which the magnetized them.

these spies based in the english countryside to not get to london very often, and they left carrying bags of shopping, presents for their families. it was really a bizarre thing. for anyone that cares about press freedom, pretty chilling. work,le you are doing the while greg -- glenn greenwald was putting out the pieces based on what edward released from the national security agency, you write about being a part of the small team hold up in a room at "the guardian." experience, your computer is not being linked to the internet. we knew this was serious, the material that snowden had entrusted to us, that this was a serious undertaking.

we had a clear mission to not and to revealng mass surveillance, which we all now know about. us,e were seven or eight of where we had security guards around the clock, making sure that nobody who should've been there were there. four laptops and apc, which were never connected to the internet, we papered over the windows so that no one could see in from the outside. we were also working against the there was a dot that we need to get as many stores out as we could in a responsible way because we did not know when the british government would fall on us. another detail, cleaners were banned. nobody else was allowed in the

room. quickly, it resembled a student dormitory with pita wrappers, coffee cups. the gchq, the equivalent of the nsa, change their practices in any way over these eight months that this information has begun to come out? >> you would think the answer is yes, but in reality the answer is no. i find it very depressing. it has been fascinating -- i have been to the u.s. several and i see a lively, polar debate going on, but what is happening in britain is adjusting. entire physical establishment has been asleep and is now only waking up. the message from david cameron has been to move along, nothing

to see here. inevitably, when you look at these documents, you see that gc together, working especially one entity. any reforms that obama announced inevitably,well, will affect the work of gc hq as well. >> what do you think of president obama's so-called reforms? is more of a grand word. they are more face-saving tweaks. the big change is that the nsa will no longer listen to angela merkel's cell phone. i was in europe doing various events there and people are scratching their heads wondering whether there prime minister is friendly, whether they will be bumped or not.

of big thing, the collection telephonyetadata, data, i could be wrong, but i think that is carrying on. those programs which snowden exposed, i believe still continue. due to google or microsoft change the way that they operate in the wake of what has come out? panic and aniced absolutely massive year campaign , thesure us and everyone whole world, that they are not complicit in this spying, and have been coerced into collaborating. i still think there are some questions about how deep they are involved in this. >> luke harding, thank you for being with us. his new book that just came out is "the snowden files: the inside story of the world's most wanted man."

he also wrote a piece in the guardian recently. that doesn't for the show.

>> coming up on "california country," meet one of the hardest-working couples in the restaurant and ranching worlds. >> they're both, uh, 24/7, 7-day-a-week business, which most people think we're crazy for jumping into these 2 businesses. >> next find out about a wine that's been generations in the making. >> when i come visit in california, 1966, i say, "that's the place i'm gonna stay and i die." >> then discover a blooming business in southern california. >> and the flowers,