04/02/14 04/02/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! reasons to have believed that if the world doesn't do anything about mitigating the emissions and the extent of climate change continues to increase, then the social civility of humans could be at stake. >> the most dire warning yet about how greenhouse gases have

driven up global temperatures and extreme weather. while threatening sources of food and water. we will speak with two climate scientists who helped write the report. then, "dragnet nation." the equivalento of the freedom of information act request, few files. i look at them and they were handwritten, dozens of pages. in totality, they were not really as robust as an average facebook profile, certainly, not as revealing as my google search result. .> julia angwin all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the head of general motors appeared before congress tuesday to answer for the auto giants safety defect linked to at least

13 and possibly hundreds of deaths. gm has recalled millions of cars after acknowledging fault ignition switches shut down engines and disabled airbags. speaking before house panel, gm chair mary barra apologized to the victims families. >> more than a decade ago, gm embarked on a small car program. sitting you're today, i cannot tell you why it took so long for safety defect to be announced for this program. and i can tell you we will find out. today's gm will do the right thing. that begins with my sincere apologies to everyone who has been affected i this recall. especially, the families and friends who lost their lives or were injured. i am deeply sorry. >> it has recently emerged general motors misled the victims families, despite knowing of the vehicle's flaws. in her testimony, graybar set for the first time gm is ready

to pay compensation and has hired an attorney to handle claims. the lawyer, kenneth feinberg, previously oversaw the compensation funds for 9/11 victims and gulf residents impacted by the dp oil spill. but despite admitting fault, barra had almost no new information to explain how gm repeatedly failed to fix its cars, despite knowing of the defective ignitions. her testimony continues before the senate today. outside of the hearing, family members who lost loved ones to crashes and effective gm car spoke out against the company's actions. >> with the people left behind when a loved one got into what was opposed to be a safe car, the gm car, a car that gm knew for years was dangerous and effective. our daughters, sons, sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, wives, and husbands are gone because they were a cost of doing business gm-style.

>> gm engineers were aware of her problem with the ignition switch design for years earlier, which could cause them to turn into the excessive position with just the weight of a keychain or road bump. rather than fixing the problem, they chose to keep producing the cobalt with the ignition switch and selling it to an unsuspecting public. we are the problem and discovered -- would it have saved these girls lives in the lives of many others? yes. should gm be able to hide behind her bankruptcy and not accept responsibility and liability of these young lives? .o >> the scandal has also brought scrutiny on federal regulators who took no action despite knowing of problems as early as 2007. testifying on tuesday, david friedman told lawmakers he has ordered an internal review. president obama celebrating the milestone achievement of the signature health care law after enrollment in insurance plans

beat expectations. speaking the white house, obama said over 7.1 million people have signed up for insurance before this week's deadline for open enrollment. and after years of republican-led repeal efforts and a disastrous rollout last year, obama said the law is here to stay. >> despite several lost weeks out of the gate because of problems with the website, 7.1 million americans have now signed up for private insurance plans through these marketplaces. i will always work with anyone who is willing to make this law work even better, or the debate over. the affordable care act is here to stay. >> the obamacare program marks the nation's largest expansion of health coverage since the creation of medicare and medicaid in 1965. but it still leaves millions uninsured while keeping the for-profit insurance industry

intact. in his comments, president obama acknowledged the loss hasn't fixed the nation's health-care care woes, the criticized those seeking to undermine its gains. >> the affordable care act has a completely fixed hour-long broken health care system, but this law has made our health care system a lot better. a lot better. i don't get it. hardre folks working so for people not to have health insurance? are they so mad about the idea of folks having health insurance? many of the tall tales that have been told about this law have been debunked. there are still no death panels. [laughter] armageddon has not arrived. instead, this law is helping millions of americans.

>> the obama administration confirm the nsa has used a secret backdoor allowing you to search for the e-mails and phone calls of u.s. citizens without a war and. citing documents leaked by edward snowden, "the guardian" revealed an undisclosed rule change that allows nsa operatives to hunt for individual americans communications using their names or other identifying information. in a new letter to senator ron wyden, obtained i "the guardian," james clapper confirms the back door loopholes used. clapper does not specify how many backdoor searches have been carried out. in a statement, ron wyden called the wordless searches "unacceptable and a real threat to the privacy rights of law-abiding americans." nato has suspended all practical cooperation with russia in the aftermath of the annexation of crimea will stop the nato secretary-general announced the move at a meeting in brussels. >> we are suspending all practical cooperation with

insia, military and civilian the nato russia council, the euro atlantic partnership council, and the partnership for peace. at the same time, we keep our diplomatic lines of communication open and we are ready for ambassador for mr. go meetings -- ministerial meetings. but russia began withdrawing a small number of forces from its eastern border with through crane, a move john kerry called a welcome gesture. the palestinian authority has defied u.s. and israeli demands by submitting declarations to join a number of international conventions. the u.s. and israel have sought to thwart palestinian membership and global bodies as part of a bid to undermine recognition of palestinian statehood at the united nations. mahmoud abbas acted after israel

broke its pledge to free the last group of palestinian prisoners due for release under the agreement that established u.s.-brokered peace talks. on tuesday, secretary of state john kerry canceled a trip to israel and the occupied territories in response to the move by a boss. but kerry said he believes the u.s.-backed negotiations can still be saved. >> as i said at the outside of my remarks, completely premature to draw any judgments about this at this point in time. at this point in time, no agreement has been reached with respect to any prisoner, not are the ones at this moment at issue in terms of the transfer. let me make it absolutely clear. none of the agencies the president abbas signed tonight involve the u.n. none of them. president abbas has given his word he intends to negotiate

through the end of the month of april. >> in an effort to convince israel to follow through on its pledge, the obama administration is reportedly considering an early release for the jailed spy jonathan pollard. pollard is a former u.s. intelligence officer convicted of passing u.s. secrets on to israel. he is eligible for parole next year, but could be freed under rumored agreement to salvage the peace talks. at the white house, jay carney said the decision has been reached. >> first of all, the president has not made a decision to release jonathan pollard was convicted of espionage and is serving his sentence. as i said yesterday, i don't have any other update to provide to you on mr. pollard's status. there obviously are a lot of things happening in that arena, and i'm not going to get ahead of discussions that are underway. >> jonathan pollard has been in prison for about a quarter of a century. the london-based syrian group

has upped its estimate for the death toll of serious three-year civil war to at least one hundred 50,000. the syrian observatory for human rights has 150,000 is the minimum figure, with an actual toll likely approaching 200 20,000 deaths. the united nations has stopped updating its most recent toll of 100,000 from july 2013 saying conditions on the ground are too violent to allow for an accurate count. the republican-controlled house has approved a measure that would effectively force u.s. government agencies to stop studying climate change. the measure calls on the national oceanic and atmospheric administration and related bodies to focus on forecasting severe weather am a but not explore one of its likely causes . the vote comes as the u.n.'s top, panel issued a report this week calling on governments to prepare for global warming's worsening impact and cut emissions in order to prevent it from getting worse. we will have more on the u.n.,

report after the headlines. the tennessee senate has approved a measure that would ban new mass transit projects across the state. the bill was introduced to undermine the proposed rapid bus system in nashville called the amp, but would apply statewide. according to the website thinkprogress, received critical backing from the billionaire republican donors charles and david koch. the koch brothers pushed lawmakers to vote for the bill and may have even sparked its introduction. chile has declared a state of emergency after a powerful earthquake triggered tsunami off its northern coast. the death toll stands at 5 so far. thousands of people have been evacuated from coastal areas. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world.

the united nations top climate body has warned a human driven climate change has impacted every corner of the globe, with the poorest suffering the worst effects. in his latest report, the intergovernmental panel on climate change says greenhouse gases have driven up global temperatures and extreme weather, while threatening sources of food and water. in the worst is yet to come. the report declared -- "throughout the 21st century, climate change impacts are projected to slow down economic growth, make poverty reduction were difficult, further erode food security, and prolong existing and create new poverty traps." >> there is a reason for the world not really neglecting the findings of this report, because they are profound. let me repeat once again, we

have said categorically in this report the implications for human security, we have reasons to believe that if the world doesn't do anything about mitigating the emissions of greenhouse gases and the extent of climate change continues to increase, then the very social stability of human systems could be at stake. >> we're joined by three guys. michael allman hyper --michael inenheimer is with us here new york. he is one of the main authors of the 32 volume report from the intergovernmental panel on climate change. in london, saleemul huq joins us, a climate summit just at the international institute -- scientists at the international institute for the environment ad development in london. is head of policy for food and climate justice at oxfam.

he was a civil society observer at the he said i pcc meeting in japan. joining us by video stream from sweden. we welcome you all to [captioning made possible by democracy now!] democracy now! can you talk about the significance of this report, how it differs from the previous report and the morning that represents in the world? significant new findings is the last report seven year years ago and that we have strong evidence of, change happening all over the world both on land as well as in the oceans, which we did not have the last time around. there's no question it is already happening and we live in a climate-changed world already. it goes on to make projections into the future and says if we continue to warm at the rate we are now, we are heading for 4 degrees or above by the end of the century, and that is a catastrophic scenario in terms of the impact.

even at a lower temperature of 2 degrees, we can still possibly manage, but there will be significant losses in certain .arts of the world >> and the 2%, explain -- we have a global audience, but we have a lot of americans here in the 2% is more. two degrees, rather. >> it is two degrees centigrade, which is over 3.5 degrees fahrenheit. and that is the temperature threshold at which the global leaders in countries around the world have agreed we need to stay below that. under which, we can probably manage with the impacts in most parts of the world. it will be difficult in some parts of the world. if we go to 4 degrees, which is where we are headed at the moment, then we will not only double but we increase by orders of magnitude the potential impact, in some cases,

unpredictably. that is really what we want to avoid. what we need to be doing in the longer term is reduce emissions of the greenhouse gases that cause the problem so we can bring the temperature down to 2 degrees or below and not to 4 degrees, which is where we are headed. >> michael oppenheimer, can you comment on what after saleemul huq said in the likely impact of a possible 4 degree change in temperature, which is where we are headed if present emissions are reduced? and also speak specifically about what this report says about the issue of food production and security. >> than me, specifically on a couple of aspects of the report, which are important from the point of view of what will affect human beings. for the first time, we have evidence that climate changes we knew were happening are actually affecting the welfare of humans. number one, crop yields, which for a long time have been growing at the rate of 10% to 15% per decade and managing to keep up with

population changes and also dietary changes -- people eating up the food chain. those gains have slowed in many areas have been reversed with crop yields actually decreasing in some areas will stop in fact, thanmore decreasing increasing. that is a worrisome trend. unless there are major changes in technologies, for instance, producing genetically modified organisms or improved crops, we're just going to have a growing shortfall between the demand and the supply of food. that will lead to increasing malnutrition and perhaps starvation in some areas as the decades progress in this century. the other interesting area is that human health is being directly affected. there are more cases now of people dying from heat related death related to climate change than our being saved by the warmer winters. we are having more heat related

deaths tied to climate change that are benefiting the from the warmer winters. to prevent dust present a difficult task. we're sure the heat waves will increase as we go into the future. those are just two examples of how as removed from a slightly warmer world of today to a two degrees celsius warmer world to a 4 degreed celsius warmer world. officially, things spin out of control. >> tim gore, you're with a nongovernmental organization, oxfam. your head of the food and climate justice division of oxfam. talk about what this means and where justice fits into the whole issue of climate change. they outline some of the heirs of the report we're most concerned about, particularly, the impacts on food and hunger.

saleemul huq is right. what is different about this report is it isn't just an issue for the future. that is worrying enough. what is significant is the report is saying these impacts are happening now. we can already see the impact on crop yields. the report is clear we can already see the impacts of climate change on food prices. in the years since the last ipcc report was released in 2007, we have seen several instances of extreme food price volatility. each of those has been connected in some way to extreme weather .vents that is a very different picture of how climate change is impacting our food than we have had in the past. we have long said climate change is a problem for poor farmers in developing countries that don't have resources they need to cope with changing temperatures. what we're hearing now is climate change is a problem for

global agriculture the having mobile applications including food prices. -- having global implications including food prices. it is just a foretaste of what we could expect in the future if we don't get a grip on climate change. [indiscernible] is intrinsically a question of justice. not only the inequality between wealth and power, but the fossil fuel industry which is making absolutely no bones about the fact it will continue to burn fossil fuels at a rate that is not [indiscernible] that is a problem with the inequality of wealth and power. in the poorest are ill-prepared to cope and are already feeling

the effects. the inequalitye on this planet. >> oxfam just put out a report called "hot and hungry." we're also joined by saleemul huq and michael oppenheimer, both co-authors of the newly released international panel on climate change report. we will come back to them in a moment. ♪ [music break]

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can go to democracynow.org to see the whole animation. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. talk about the new intergovernmental panel on climate change report, let's go back to the recent u.n., talk 2013.rsaw, poland in we spoke to the former charity africa group at the u.n., change negotiations. he spoke about developed countries obligations to address the impacts of climate change. charity, but they can do something along the lines of culprits asian -- compensation. africans have to go through adverse effects that they did not create. it is creating not only

droughts, floods, but creating conflicts. because people have to go farther and farther to get water . drive two suv's in the u.s. while they're fighting to get water in africa. it is about doing what is right. it has to be done in two ways. to reduce the lifestyles, the consumption of carbon in the the abilityrovide to deal with the climate change. >> i wanted to get the comments of our guests today, saleemul huq and michael oppenheimer. they're both co-authors of the newly released intergovernmental panel on climate change report. we're also joined in sweden by tim gore of oxfam. saleemul huq in london, if you could talk about the effect of climate change on the least for stickingries

with the theme of how this increases disparity in the world. as you just heard, poor countries have been hit hardest by the impacts of climate change. we are all ready seeing those impacts. there are groups of the poorest countries in the world called the least developed. mostly in sub-saharan africa, but also bingo --. they're recognized to be the most vulnerable. the obligation the rich world have taken on to support them, they have pledged funding but they have not met the pledges fully. that is one aspect. on the other hand, one of the new outcomes from the report is these countries aren't sitting idle. they are trying to adapt to these potential effects of climate change.

for example in my country, bangladesh has a far-reaching climate change strategy, and action plan and the order of half $1 billion of their own money. at the same time, they're asking for international donors to match that and they have at about half the level, but the country is going ahead at the community and national level and so are a number of other countries. in many ways, the least developed countries are leading the world in trying to find ways to tackle the impacts of climate change and adapt. that there is a limit to what they can do. -- but there is a limit to what they can do. >> i want to go back to comments that tim gore made about also fuels. the largest oil and gas company in the world, exxonmobil, just released a report after the ipcc report this week saying that, unlikely"re "highly to stop it from producing and selling fossil fuels in the near future. the report says --

that is a report from exxonmobil released after the ipcc report came out this week. michael oppenheimer, could i get you to comment first on the impact of fossil fuels and what this means? >> first of all, the problem is caused by burning coal oil into a lesser extent natural gas a false a fuels, by march, power our society. it is rather interesting xoff can fill to make any statement about it at all. what they have done in the past is funded groups to kick up a smokescreen of contrarian science to confuse the public. i think the company is slowly coming around to realizing that won't do much good over the long term.

on the other hand, i don't expect exxon is a we are going to give up the oil business. that is their business, after all. the question is, how are they going to position themselves in respect to the political issues which will eventually happen like the bill and congress in 2009 that was aimed at controlling emissions? -- those areg to the key questions. the rest of it is rhetoric. >> the house has approved a measure that would effectively force government agencies to stop studying climate change. the measure calls on the noaa and related bodies to focus on forecasting severe weather, but not exploring one of its likely causes. i'm wondering if you could address this in the overall climate, if you will, in the united states? you are a professor at princeton university. around this push back on whether humans are causing, change?

>> clearly, that is an ostrich head in the sand policy. you pretend if you can see it, it's not happening. it won't stop climate change. where people just don't believe in science, that is something that has to change or we can never effectively grapple not only with this problem, but whole raft of issues and are highly technological society. what the future holds in that regard is hard to tell. i'm not the first one to point out to you this country is polarized terrifically politically. this is a problem that if it is going to be solved, goes to the root of our energy system. we need a bipartisan approach to solving it. the political rhetoric and action that is freezing everything these days really gets in the way. before we continue,

i would like you to talk about some of the work that oxfam has done and its experience with people on the ground dealing with the impacts of, change. you've spoken specifically about interrogation program in zimbabwe, for instance. can you talk about the impact already being felt in many parts of the world as a consequence of climate change? >> absolutely. oxfam is working in many countries around the world. we are grappling with those effects with small-scale farmers, working for them understand how the seasons are changing, understanding different seeds, planting regimes, helping with irrigation. , working on early theing systems to make sure people living in highly vulnerable areas essentially

below sea level get information they need about incoming storm surges or cyclones so they can get out of harms way in time. said, the action going on now is happening in some of the poorest countries to adapt to climate change. that is very welcome and we are working on that with many other organizations. but as he also said, there are limits here to what the poorest countries can do on their own. you have to look at the amount of money that rich countries are spending on adaptation. in the u.s., i think congress approved something like $60 million for the recovery after hurricane sandy in new york. ofse are the orders magnitude we're talking about in terms of dealing with this problem. another example is the amount of money or public money currently being spent to support farmers in the u.s. to do with climate impact, to be sure crops

somewhere in the order of $1 billion of public money going into that. the insurance that protects the , those arethe u.s. huge sums of public money being invested by rich countries in their own protection and their own adaptation and preparedness of climate impact. the poorest countries on the planet don't have resources to do that. they are investing some of their money, but they need more support from the national -- rich countries that in the end have him and to most of the greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. they need to make sure it does release responsible get the resources they need to adapt. the example you gave from zimbabwe, it is showing the limit of adaptation. we are also starting to see

there are limits to adaptation. the particular example in zimbabwe of any rotation scheme where it helps the local community -- irrigation scheme or it helps the local community, but when you get extreme drought, the water levels drop so low there's not enough water thesure to get it into system. it highlights that in the end, although we must increase our efforts to adapt rapidly, unless we also reduce the greenhouse gas emissions, the level of global warming will surpass our capacities within the next 2, 3, 4 decades. it is critical we scale up adaptation but also work on reducing greenhouse gases. >> i want to turn to report released the same day as the ipcc by the nongovernmental international panel on climate change, or nipcc. the study was funded completely by the heartland institute, a

think tank that systematically questioned, change. this is what the report had to say about global warming -- tim gore, can you comment on this push back, but also talk about the kind of momentum as there is momentum, leading up not just to peru next year, but the binding summit that will take place in paris in 2015? the heartland institute may not be significant in the world, but in the united states, it is part of that force that is trying to prevent any kind of binding action on climate change. -- both and this is

back to the problem of corporations like exxon, powerful economic interests that are currently profiting from our economic model and stand to lose the most from a transition to a low carbon or fair alternative. we know you can follow the groups are lobbying the us government and brussels, trying to prevent the european union from taking more ambitious action on climate change, lobbying in australia as well and behind more of the aggressive steps the australian government has taken on climate change in recent months as well. this is an influence of the fossil fuel industry that we've seen around the world. it is working directly against the interest of the poorest and most vulnerable people on the planet who are already being

impacted by climate change. we have to stand up to that. i think that is why you see an increasing movement starting to swell with strong roots there in the u.s. around divestment, saying actually if we want to get serious about tackling this problem, there's no question of a partnership with some of these energy companies. they simply don't have any interest in seeing climate change tackled. what we have to do is we have to get the money, the investments out of those companies and into cleaner, sustainable, renewable energy alternatives. >> saleemul huq, if you could comment from london on that point of where you're going from here and michael oppenheimer as well? cite the example of the fossil fuel companies that you mentioned, it is like they are drug suppliers to the rest of the world who are junkies and hooked on fossil fuels. but we don't have to remain hooked on fossil fuels.

we are going to have to cut ourselves off from them if we want to see a real transition and prevent the kinds of temperature risings i mentioned. the only way is to wean ourselves off the fossil fuels. >> i went to point out, it is not just around the world. think about hurricane sandy and how hard it was to deal with that storm. that is today's storms. they give out what happens over the next 10, 20, 30 years when the sea levels go up? >> i want to thank you all for being with us, michael oppenheimer and saleemul huq, co-authors of the newly released ipcc report. thank you to tim gore of oxfam, speaking to us from sweden. and we come back, "dragnet nation." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. >> weekend today show with our interview with you later prize-winning investigative journalist julia angwin, author of the new book, "dragnet nation: a quest for privacy, security, and freedom in a world

of relentless surveillance." withs currently propublica. you can watch the first part of our interview on the website. we began by asking her how she tried to increase her own online privacy. >> a basically conducted this exercise because i felt that we are always told we have made the choice to give up our privacy, and -- >> by going online? >> by going online and choosing to use free services and we really given it up for security for free services. i thought, i will withdraw that choice and see if i can still live in the modern world. can opt out., i i stopped using google search. >> why? >> they keep all of my search records. if you are logged in, like i

mostly was, my records were dating back to 2006 for every search i had conducted. as can find it in yours well. it is to you look at. youy thought in your head, basically google it. in the morning, i would google do weather and my breakfast. there was nothing in my head that did not come out into a google search. >> but can you clear the history? >> yes, but google also saves history on their and kind your ip address. and their businesses keeping records and analyzing data. that is what they do. they author -- offer that data as a way to advertisers to convince them to advertise on google. i decided i didn't want that record. i was also meant google would not let me download it myself, because i thought maybe i would learn something about myself by, like, watching my crazy mind jumping around. google, did you

say, i want my history? >> i did. they have a section in their website where you can take some of your data called the data liberation project at google. so you can liberate some of your data like your contacts and some of your e-mails and several things. but the search, which is the bulk of their business, is not part of the data liberation project. i asked them and they said they did not know when they would ever add it. so i don't know. uckgo. to duckd they are a small start up near philadelphia. at first it was hard to adjust to a new search engine because they don't fill out your sentence. google knows what you're thinking. i mean, that's the whole point. they already watched my mind from those years, so they know. i had to work a little harder and fitness dash finish my sentences, and tell them i lived

in new york or else they would give me results for london or something because they did not know. but in the end, i started to feel i was controlling my destiny more. i knew exactly what i wanted, whereas google was guessing for me. >> and can you talk about the extent of the surveillance? you also spoke about a couple forum, on an online chat which was supposed to be private, then it turned out, in fact, it wasn't. >> this is a sad story. these two people -- it was one of the stories that is the promise of the internet. two people across the world, one in australia and one in arkansas, he never would have met, but shared a similar disease and met on a forum for patients was a password-protected form for patients to talk about their diseases. they were having an emotional conversation on this form when they got a notice from the operator that there it been a break-in. this big media monitoring company, nielsen, has a social

media monitoring business where they try to monitor online buzz and they sell that to big companies who want to know what their products are being talked about. whyretically, we don't know nielsen broken, but probably they were trying to figure out what patients were talking about to sell that to someone who has an interest in what patients talk about. these people were really horrified to find out nielsen was breaking in. but the notice also said, oh, by the way, in case you don't know, this website is also selling your data. >> isn't that illegal? nielsen interviewed in a form -- intervened in a form that is supposed to be private? >> at the website had tried to bring a legal action against nelson, they may have had a case but those cases are hard to bring. nielsen immediately apologized and said they weren't going to break in again. >> they were talking about depression. >> yes. what was interesting talking to

them, they were more upset about the website selling their data than they were about nielsen. a break-in happens. but they were not aware in the fine print of that site that they were being monetized. i feel that is the issue of privacy these days. so often we think of privacy as an intrusion, but it is something we authorize and fine print. >> talk about the moment you decided to buy a prepaid cell phone. >> the problem with the cell phone was i was trying to figure out how to protect my privacy with a cell phone. it is the world's best cracking device. -- tracking device. >> and we actually pay to carry them. >> exactly. it is sort of incredible. they're always transmitting stuff you're not aware of. they have to talk to the cell tower to give you the signal. the apps can be sending data. i realized i really didn't have

that much control over what i was transmitting, even when i wasn't using it. i realized the best protection i could have was a cell phone that wasn't tied to my identity. so basically when i bought something for cash, prepaid, with a fake name -- which is legal. i carry that around. the problem is, there's a thin veneer of privacy. i go to all the same locations and call all the same people, so somebody who looked at that data would be able to tell. i thought, well at least they should try to work a little harder to get me. >> how do you respond to the people who say we have nothing to hide, so who cares if the government knows where we are going are what we are searching for on google or anything like that? to those people as information is power. the more information you give to the government, the more power they have over you. similarly, commercially, the more power information you give to the cell phone company were google, the more power they have over you. one thing that i've been

investigating my years at "the wall street journal" was, there are a lot of companies that are trying to figure out ways to show different prices to people online based on the personal information they have about them. essentially, we are going to get to a world where they're going to know that i have five dollars more in my pocket than you, and my price is going to be five dollars higher because that's the data they have. >> why is free wi-fi really not free? >> that is something i've turned off on my phone because what is happening with free wi-fi is people are using a wi-fi signal on your phone to track you. so there are shopping malls and retailers who actually seen the wi-fi on your phone to see you as you're walking by because they want to get into the trucking business. everybody wants to be the surveillance business. the wi-fi business is basically a democratized tracking technique. i could drive around with a to pick up wi-fi. i have essentially stopped using

wi-fi altogether. >> you went to berlin to visit the archives of the east herman secret police. could you explain why you did that and what you found? ofsome people accuse me being too paranoid. i thought, ok, i will look to see what does the most repressive surveillance regime have on their citizens and how does that compare? and my overdramatizing the situation? i obtained their equivalent of a freedom of information act, a few files which i got translated. i looked at them and they were handwritten, dozens of pages. in totality, they were not really as robust as a facebook profile and not as revealing as my google search results. it was interesting to learn they have files on only one quarter of the population, which took them a lot of work to surveilled. clearly, now the government and its areas have files on

everybody. how can we prevent our regime from using that in a way to repress us? it is one of oversight. >> who is daniel j? of thenvented the sort way we are tracked online advertising. if you have ever had an ad follow you on the internet, he is the one who came up with that idea. he came up with that back right around the dot-com boom. in 2007. resurgence he thought it was going to be privacy protecting. your only identified by little , this person is going to these websites. but he has actually kind of turned against it because he finds that his innovation is now being used to connect people to the actual identities. people like facebook and google, if you have an account with

them, when they track you on other websites, know who you are. he is concerned that his anonymous creation is becoming less anonymous. >> what is the relationship between corporate surveillance and government surveillance of users, people online? is it the same thing? >> corporate surveillance can see more benign. but i think the one lesson i feel that i've taken from the stone revelations is how aggressive the government is about going to these private companies for data. for them, this is incredible. google has so much more. they wanted. >> google has so much more than the government. >> yes, right. the government actually does have limits on the collection. we don't always see them obey that, as we've seen from some of their violations mentioned in the sis see. google has every map you ever looked at. they have every search, your e-mail content. we have seen the government comes to them repeatedly with

request, secret court orders for the documents, and also some occasions where they have hacked in to different parts of the internet to try to get that data otherwise. at allthere no restraint on companies for keeping this information or disseminating it to other companies? >> right now, yeah, we are one of the only western nations without a baseline privacy law that basically puts some baseline limits on what commercial data gatherers can do. --t western countries have at least offer citizens the ability to see their files, correct them, and sometimes remove them. >> you write about how innocent citizens can be placed in a police lineup and suspected of a crime. so before ubiquitous surveillance, which by the way, i would say was only 10 years ago, none of us probably come i hope -- i mean, i didn't, at least, have a police file.

i tell the story my book of one man who was a boiler repair man near boston. he basically showed up one day and found that his driver's license had been revoked. he saw a notice. he went to a court hearing. they said, shocked -- shocked at this hearing we will tell you why. a said, our facial recognition technology has identified you as look into similar and your photo to another person, so we think you guys have done at entity that. he had to prove who he was. this is sort of the presumption of guilt is reversed. he has to prove his innocence to get out of the lineup. >> talk about the web camera. it has just become the webcam. if you take pictures, you have it. hq was using the images when you're in a yahoo! chat with someone, turns out. talk about how often this is

used. i remember a year or two ago, that kid in pennsylvania, the school had given kids laptops. they were very excited and they went home in his home in his room. but they said to protect the students so you would not think they were stealing laptops, the school would turn the cameras on if you took them home. they could say, oh, he wasn't really stealing a laptop but using it. mike ande was eating ike jellybeans, they took that to mean he was popping drugs. they called in his parents and they said, he's using drugs. they were frightened. they said, how do you know he's using drugs? i think the kid was in elementary school. they start to show photographs will stop a recognize this is their boys room. they see he is putting things in his mouth, which is his favorite candy. but these photographs -- this was a few years ago. and in all of the kids realized they're being filmed in their

bedrooms by the school. >> right. that was a horrifying story, once again, where the presumption of innocence, where you're called in for taking drugs. the thing about the camera is that it can be remotely activated. that is what happened to those kids. unfortunately, there's like a criminal -- there are criminal hacking gangs out there that can remotely activate our camera. they have basically been filming people in their rooms and then trying to blackmail them. "i have naked pictures of you, send me money." community, they have stickers over their cameras because they know how easy it is to download the software that can remotely activate your camera. everyone should essentially have a sticker over their camera. >> you pointed out this time of relentless or valences only a decade old. for all of his at this table, that is just a fraction of your

lives. but in your book, you say that the next generation has grown up with this. how did you get them to be interested in online privacy and what steps can they take to protect themselves? >> the thing about kids, there is a myth they don't care about privacy. people tell me that all the time. i say, you are there threat model. you are the nsa to them. they want privacy from you. what you don't realize is they don't care about the same issues you care about, but they do have a privacy issue. the way i convinced my kids was essentially to show them that they could have secrets from me. this was the selling point. the mostly wanted secrets -- they know little brother is going to find out their stuff. they really enjoyed the fact that it also seems like fun. i show them this tool that can show them how many tracking devices are any given website.

it was like a videogame. i got one with 40 trackers. i taught my daughter to his build -- to build strong passwords are her brother could not break into her account. she started a business. she makes strong passwords for one dollar. ask what do you mean? >> strong passwords are really long, basically, not already used on another site. so many sites have been hacked that the password hacking community has every password that has artie been used. you basically need something new, which is hard to think of. what my daughter does is she solves that problem -- >> how old is she? >> nine. [laughter] everye a dictionary where word is numbered.

my passwords are 30 characters long. then i can remember them because their dictionary words. they are still not words i would ever choose, but most likely are not in any of those password files that have been hacked already. >> do you also use numbers? >> she gives you the password unsalted and you're supposed to salt it with capitalization, numbers. >> how will you ever remember these? >> you must write them down. you're unlikely to have somebody break into your house, find the piece of paper with your password on it, and figure out which account they goes to. the myth that we can't write down our passwords is creating password insecurity. >> so do you think attitudes about privacy are changing now? >> i do. i find that young people, when i talk to them about privacy, are very interested. the data also shows young people are more willing to adjust their privacy settings. they're less likely to download

an app if they're concerned about the privacy of that app. interestingly, i think because the young people are very tech savvy and tech literate, understand they want to control their data. the rise of snap chat is a very good example of that. they want their chance to disappear into the ether. it is a way to blow up your communications. after you send them, you can blow them up and they disintegrate after a certain amount of time. >> today really? really?ey >> that is the question. maybe they like the perception. the problem we have with a lot of these tools as we don't have good standards of auditing, so it is hard to know whether companies that say they're doing something to protect your privacy are actually doing it. >> that is julia angwin, author of, "dragnet nation: a quest for privacy, security, and freedom in a world of relentless surveillance." she was part of the team at "the wall street journal wall street journal" i wanted to fill it surprise for exposing corruption

-- corporate corruption. you can go to democracynow.org to see the full interview. that does it for our broadcast. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now!