04/08/14 04/08/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! there is no line between legislators and bankers. and beyond the millions of dollars that they're getting to run their campaigns and to stay in office or to get elected into office and so forth i'm a there's also the additional value that is received by the fact that jpmorgan chase is actually giving them money. only bank giving

them money, but the entire industry. "all the presidents' bankers: the hidden alliances that drive american power." we will speak with nomi prins about the 100 year history of collusion between washington and wall street. in shining a light on the nsa black budget. we will go to capitol hill to speak with commerce member peter welch is sponsoring the bill to force the president to include the total dollar amount requested for each of the 16 intelligence agencies. then, a federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit challenging u.s. governments killing of three americans in yemen in drone strikes. we will get reaction from attorney maria lahood. >> the constitution clearly applies to our awlaki because he is u.s. citizen, so he is guaranteed due process. if the us government can kill a u.s. citizen in yemen, that not only expands the global war, but also means a u.s. citizen can be killed anywhere by our

government. >> all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. ukraine said they have regained control over regional administration building , one ofity of kharkiv three eastern cities were pro-russian demonstrators have seized government sites. authorities are men in a standoff of demonstrators who have declared an independent republican urged russian vladimir putin to send troops. tsk is the hometown of ousted ukraine in president viktor yanukovych. on monday, the state department spokesperson said secretary of state john kerry spoke to his russian counterpart by phone. roxie called on russia to publicly disavow the activities of separatist, saboteurs and provocateurs, calling for de-escalation and dialogue and called on all parties to refrain from agitation in ukraine.

he made clear any further russian efforts to destabilize ukraine will incur further costs for russia and the ministers also discussed convening direct talks with in next 10 days between ukraine, russia, the united states, and that you to try to de-escalate the tension. ministry's foreign claims ukraine's forces in the east have been joined by both right-wing nationalist and mercenaries from the private military firm greystone. ray stone is affiliated with ac ademi, formally known as blackwater. roadside bomb, a killed at least 15 people monday. the victims were civilians who vehicles have been diverted from the main road after a previous attack targeting nato troops. the attacks came two days after afghanistan's presidential election will stop the final results of which are not expected for weeks. an outbreak of polio in syria has officially spread into neighboring iraq amidst warnings

scores of iraqi children could be a risk. the disease was confirmed in a six month old baby boy in baghdad late last month. it marks iraq's first case in 14 years. polio has paralyzed dozens of children in syria where it emerged last her for the first time since 99. the virus has been traced to pakistan, where anti-polio workers have come under frequent attack after a polio vaccination campaign was used by the cia to help find osama bin laden. in egypt, an appeals court upheld the three prison -- three or prison term of three leading oftoco political activists accd violating anti-protest law. were sentenced in december. they helped lead the uprising that ousted mubarak in 2011. ditch or aiding in prison. his brother said the fight must extend beyond opposition to enter president adly mansour are

president favorite and former military chief abdel fattah al-sisi. our battle is against an oppressive state will stop all he cares about is suppressing opinions.g --jailing all he cares about his corruption and its role is to suppress and kill the revolution. it is only concern is its interest. >> around the world on monday, people took to social media to show support for four al jazeera journalist attained in egypt for months. the global day of action marked 100 days since the arrest of peter greste, mohamed fahmy and baher mohamed and a fourth journalist has been held for more than seven months and is on hunger strike since january 23. for wanda has begun a week of mourning to mark the 20th

anniversary of the rwandan genocide i'm a when 800,000 people were killed over the course of 100 days. u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon spoke at monday's commemoration in kigali. >> when i first visited, i heard and felt the silence of death. the silence of all of those lost in the silence of the international community in your hours of greatest need. reveriewed remarkable -- bravery, but we could have done much more. we should have done much more. >> for our full coverage of the 20th anniversary of the rwandan genocide, including how the clinton a administration refuse to call it a genocide at the time, you can go to democracynow.org. restorete has voted to

aid for 2.8 million americans who have been unemployed for more than 26 weeks. benefits for the long-term unemployed expired in december. the bill now heads to the republican-led house, where speaker john boehner has indicated it is an unlikely to get a vote. the death toll from a mudslide northeast of seattle, washington has risen to 33. the local medical examiner's office at three people still remain unidentified while 10 remain missing two weeks after disaster struck the town of oso. memorial services for the victims began over the weekend. new details have emerged about last week shooting at the fort hood military base in texas. army specialist ivan lopez fatally shot three people and injured 16 before turning the gun on himself. officials have confirmed the shooting took place after an argument over the processing of lopez's request for a leave of absence to attend to family matters. a say the entire rampage lasted about eight minutes.

rights, true for lgbt the supreme court has rejected mexicoal by new photography studio there refused to document the same-sex commitment ceremony. the decision leaves them place a ruling by the new mexico supreme court which found the company had violated state antidiscrimination law, "in the same way as if it had refused a photograph a wedding between people of different races." senate democrats are criticizing former cia director michael hayden are describing senate intelligence committee chair dianne feinstein as emotional over her efforts to classify senate probe on cia torture and rendition. he made remarks on fox news on sunday. >> that motivation for the report showed deep, emotional feeling on the part of the senator, but i don't think it leads you to an objective report. >> in response to hayden's comments, mark udall of colorado said --

hayden's comments are the latest chapter in a spat over the senate torture report between the cia and feinstein, who has openly accused the cia of spying on senate staffers. feinstein herself dismissed the remarks as "absolute nonsense." in the philippines, the supreme court has upheld key parts of a government plan to provide universal access to contraception. the reproductive health law was signed in 2012 after pressure from the catholic church block its passage for 13 years. it requires government health centers to provide free access to condoms and birth control, mandates sex education in public schools, and requires health workers to care for people suffering from the effects of illegal abortions. a mississippi judge has dismissed a murder charge against again african-american woman who face life in prison after giving birth to a stillborn baby. gibbs was 16 years old

when she was indicted for "depraved heart murder," accused of willfully causing her baby step by smoking crack cocaine. a medical examiner had ruled that a homicide after finding traces of cocaine byproduct in the baby system. that experts later concluded the death was likely caused by inability the cord wrapped around the baby's neck. a mississippi prosecutor has adjusted the state will move to reunite her for manslaughter. --n paltrow said peter matheson's final novel comes out today, three days after the celebrated author and naturalist died of leukemia at the age of 86. in his 20's, peter matheson helped found the paris review, which later amended using as a cover for spying on americans in france as a cia agent.

he wrote more than 30 books, including "in the spirit of crazy horse," about imprisoned native american activist leonard peltier. prompted lawsuits from a net cia agent and a former governor of south dakota, both of which were later dismissed. he is the only writer in the national book -- to win the national book award for both fiction and nonfiction. his last novel is called "in paradise." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. if you go by the ballot she'd come the last four years have been a time of economic growth in the united states. corporate profits and stock prices have mostly recovered and in many cases surpass her levels from before the financial crisis. on wall street, bonuses are the highest they have been since before the 2008 crash. just last year, payouts $26.7 billion.o

that is enough money to more than double the wages of every minimum-wage worker in the country. for most americans, the recovery has been elusive. inequality is now at its highest point since 1928, and wages for lower-income americans are stagnant. >> we turn now to a new history that explains how this disparity is come to be. in her new book, financial journalist nomi prins traces the 100 year history of collusion between washington and wall street. she reveals how a small number of bankers have played critical roles in shaping a century's worth of financial, foreign, and domestic policy in the united states. these relations have entered -- these relationships have enclosed events from the creation of the federal reserve, the response of the great depression, and the founding of the imf and world bank. for good part of the 20th century, bankers and presidents presided over a financial system that is relatively stable. but as wall street grew

increasingly outside of washington's control, financial speculation has exploded, leading to the financial crisis of 2008. nomi prins insert book with a stark warning writing "either we break the alliances, or they will break us." nomi prins is a former managing director at bear stearns and goldman sachs, and previously an analyst at lehman brothers and chase manhattan bank. she is author of this new book, "all the presidents' bankers: the hidden alliances that drive american power." great to have you with this. talk about the inspiration for the book. >> we were on the show a few years ago and i was talking thet a historical novel on 1929 crash called "black tuesday." as one of the segments in that book happened, six bankers had gotten together at the behest of the acting chairman of the morgan bank who was thomas lamont, at the time, and they had so been afraid of losing all of the money and all of their reputation and her institutions at the time, that they got together and decided to pool

their money to save the market. recently, the federal reserve treasury department and everyone else from the government decided to work with them to say themselves, but the impetus for the book really came from those big six bankers. relationshipsthe they had with all of the presidents going forward and backward from that time to come up with the analysis. fox talk about who they were and the companies they represented. >> in 1929, the man that sat in the room with morgan was tom lamont, the acting chair, charles mitchell, who is the chairman of national city bank which is now grown into citigroup, al wiggin, the head of the chase bank just now part of the jpmorgan chase, and a couple of other bankers. they basically had morphed into some of the six banks we have today. the ones that were absent were

goldman sachs and make up america. they came in through other avenues. crash backward from the in 1929 and noticed jpmorgan, who is arguably -- who is the most powerful bank in this country and the most powerful lyrical, financial actor. he died 100 years ago, but what , as fared in his legacy back as 1907 through jamie dimon hoss relationship with obama more recently, has been a very apparent apparatus and the connection of the politics and finance, which i believe has no separation line. from talk about the creation of the federal reserve. happened.ic in 1907 teddy roosevelt did not bust

banks. you busted a lot of other industries, but not banks. he truly believed, and he says this in documents, he truly believed jpmorgan could save new york in the country from a greater tester fee after the panic of 1907. jpmorgan got together with people at the hotel manhattan at midnight. did not have the president or treasury secretary, told him later what they would do. of treasury money, they saved their friends. they decided they did not really want to have that kind of scary again. they continue to push for the idea of a central bank, which is the federal reserve. .hey had help of a senator nelson aldrich took a group of bankers in 1910 to? i went and got hit by a trolley car on

madison avenue, but, listing with his son who became -- convalescing with his son who became the head of chase later, took a bunch of are presented its from j.p. morgan bank -- jpmorgan was not there. they went to? island for 10 days. they did all sorts of things. they came up with the impetus for the federal reserve. washington,ack to nelson aldrich had to present this plan. convalescing. to bankers from that meeting when in his place. they went to washington to put up the plan. it was not passed under taft but under wilson. a lot of the same individuals were friends of woodrow wilson as well into his presidency. they helped campaign and raise money for his presidency. and the federal reserve act was passed under wilson in 1913. >> what were the most famous or

not as well known but to uncover them, bromances between bankers and top residents? .> one of them was tom lamonte he started his life moving up the chain of morgan after the panic of 1907 in the trials in 1912 which at the time, look at what bankers had done to cause the panic of 1907. he was a young lawyer at the time. he had gone to harvard with fdr. as a young man, he was living in the house of fdr everything it wasseveral years while fdr the navy secretary under wilson. they chose lamont to go with wilson to france for six weeks. wilson was in france come the longest time a u.s. president was outside of u.s. oil and the first time a u.s. president was outside u.s. soil, at the banker by his side was tom lamonte, republican will stop you when it

crosses party lines to come back with woodrow wilson to fight for the league of nations to try to preserve peace after world war i, which was defeated, but tom lamonte and woodrow wilson developed this relationship. the letters are crazy. and are so full of gratuity love and, thank you for being by my side and i could not have done it without you because when woodrow wilson then got broke and was difficult for him to go around the country after the war to fight for the league of nations, which the senate did not want to pass and ultimately did not pass, tom lamont took it up in his newspapers that he owned, the saturday review, backdoor in terms of senators that he knew and tried to push it. the two of them worked closely together and had this bromance. woodrow wilson ultimately did die from convocations -- convocations of the stroke. >> it is understood that wall

street was hostile the many ways to the new deal, but how did wall street work with roosevelt and why? >> one of the men was the son of the founder of the fed for senator eldridge. he was friends with fdr. he also knew from a business perspective he wanted to outdo the morgans. he said, chase has been trading some speculation that went miles long in the crash of 1929. he believed for the stability of the economy and for his bank going forward so he could walk and chew gum at the same time, sue the public interest as well as his bank's interest, work with fdr to pass the , and actually act carter glass, whose name is on that act, wanted slightly weaker

version of the act then winthrop eldridge pushed inside washington with the alliance of fdr. that was a very different time. you cannot imagine today tammy dimon pushing president obama -- jamie dimon pushing president obama to separate his bank. it is unimaginable. >> talk about the relationship today. you have said the relationships between bankers and presidents, those in power cop it more dangerous today. they be can use the example of jamie dimon's relationship. it is hard to forget him going before the senate committee when there are so many questions, even the question of, would you currently prosecuted, and you look at the senators one by one, the corporate networks were not showing it, showing how many millions his bank and him were responsible for giving to the senators, republican and democrat. >> i remember being up that 4:30

in the morning and talking about jamie dimon boldfaced lying to those committees, then turning over and saying, well, can you give us advice about the economy? it was kind of ridiculous. after the london whale trade, lost billions of dollars, money separated from speculation to begin with. the relationship is much more dangerous also because those big on 85% oftoday deposits of all the commercial banks. 84% of assets of all the commercial banks. control 96% of all of the derivatives that financial institutions that are backed by the government utilize today. 45% of the world derivatives. six banks control so much capital and have so much power as to the laws around the capital and the administration -- this started reagan through bush through clinton into obama.

this is not new. but the reaction of the administrations has been to allow this to happen, to allow the concentration of the capital of this power to do nothing in the face of the financial crisis of 2008 -- char believe is still ongoing, just in a different manifestation. these numbers are worse than they were before the crisis of 2008. >> jfk. his relationship with the bankers? >> he was interesting. one of the things i look out in the book is the pedigree and the social stature of a lot of the bankers and presidents, and also their connections. in the case of jfk am a he was in london in 1938 and his father was the first appointed fcc had under fdr because they were friends and yet help with that campaign. he met david rockefeller in london at this gala coming-out party for jfk's sister kathleen.

david rockefeller even dated her briefly. there so many social ties as well. the other side of jfk is his personal relationship despite the social background was a little more stilted. he just came off as a little more trying to do his own thing. because it is long-standing relationship with david rockefeller, they started to really diffuse. rockefeller started saying disparaging things in public will stop -- public. an article in "life magazine" in 1962, going against jfk. jfk was trying allow latin american countries to be more independent and not have more private debt imposed upon them, which is what rockefeller and the other bankers wanted to do at the time as a new source of making money. disturbedy rockefeller in particular who was trying to expand the bank into those areas. on the one side at a strong social connection and on the other side jfk tried to go in the way to make the country's a

little more independent financially from the u.s. where that was a point where things started going in a separate direction and rockefeller and walter wriston who ran citibank at the time wanted to dump them with debt and privatizing and that haveof things gone worst since then. >> what happens as the 1970's? for the bulk of the 20 century, you banks and the government working together. but since then, wall street goes rogue. what accounts for the shift and how do we fix it now? >> a little bit started when they found they could do a foreign-policy that was separate from u.s. policy, the expansion of banks and foreign capacity. lbj tried to rein that back. he had friends that basically said, i know you want to do your own thing, but i have a great society, vision coming on board so you need to back me. there was still a little quid pro quo. nixon had left with personal

relationships in the 70's and took the country of the gold standard, which he did because the bankers pushed him to do it. at this point they saw there was middle east soil and they can go in there and try to forge relationships and branches in the middle east and utilize those petrodollars to recycle into latin america and other countries. they started operating more internationally and independently of their connections to the president. the minute they discovered all that money, and they dumped all of that debt into the third world, that manifested the huge third world debt crisis in the 1980's. that was the first large and stints of a bailout. of a bailout. in the 1980's under reagan and bush, the idea of bailing out the banks who had refundable this debt into latin america was a very epic decision, and one which the bankers get nothing back to the government. they were like, we are going to

use your money to bail us out, in washington talking about the catastrophe at what happened to america if that did not happen. they got the government to basically pushed the world bank and the imf to work on the areas where they had the most risk and they had the most interest in retrieving it, and then and i to 90's, just compile that with him except mexican peso prices were clinton worked to save mexican interest for goldman and other u.s. banks. then the repeal of glass-steagall act 1999. then all of this idea of consolidation and risk and power just exponentially grew from there. >> nomi prins, you talk about goldman sachs and it wasn't always as powerful as it is today. >> goleman sex almost died in 1928 -- goldman sachs almost died in 1928. they had a trading partner shift -- partnership in which investors invested money in the stock and trust went up to $320

and then subsequently went down to4! sidney weinberg, the chairman of goleman at the time, joined goldman in the panic of 1907 as an underling, decided if he could befriend fdr in such a manner as to help him run his 1932 campaign, he would kind of have a seat at the table. the legitimacy of goldman with respect to fdr also allowed fdr to create the first business council that sidney weinberg pushed in washington to forge relationships between the business financial community in washington and so on. lbj's choiceehind of henry fowler as a treasury secretary who then joined goldman sachs after being a treasury secretary. we had henry paulson who did the other way. bush picked him to be the treasury secretary, george w. bush, and clinton picked robert rubin coming from goldman sachs

to be the treasury secretary in his administration. it started with sidney weinberg and fdr. >> we're going to take a break and come back to this discussion, then speak with the vermont congressman peter welch. he wants to expose the budget of the 16 intelligence agencies. when we come back, nomi prins will talk about her favorite story in the book, "all the presidents' bankers: the hidden alliances that drive american power." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. in a moment, we will be speaking with vermont congress member peter welch. right now we are continuing with nomi prins, the author of, "all the presidents' bankers: the hidden alliances that drive american power." she's a former managing director at bear stearns and goldman

sachs, and previously an analyst at lehman brothers and other places. we want to go to a clip of president obama in 2009 on "60 minutes." >> i did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of fat cat bankers on wall street. the only ones that will be paying out these fat bonuses are the ones that have now paid back that tarp money. >> d you think that is why they paid it back so quickly? >> in some cases, i think that with the motivation which tells me the people on wall street still don't get it. they don't get it. they are still puzzled, wise of the people i met at the banks? well, you guys are drawing down 10 lane dollars, $29 bonuses after america went down the worst economic and decades, and you caused the problem and we have 10% unemployment? why do you think people might be a little frustrated? >> that was president obama in

2009. i'm wondering if there is been any break in the symbiotic relationship between wall street and washington, certainly with obama's second term, when he ran against romney, his donations from wall street dropped from $60 million to $6 million. you see change of course in this pattern of symbiosis that you trace in the book? >> wall street was very primary in getting him elected to begin with. i think also wall street doesn't really particularly care who is in office, though there was a time during that campaign period where they believed romney had a better shot. it wasn't so much necessarily a negative on obama. i think there were just playing their bet and happen to have lost, which they usually haven't in many elections. sometimes the backing gets a little -- that in that clip, and a lot of what obama has said, what is said publicly and what actually happens inside the private office and with respect

to what is going on with anchors, he shows up -- it shows up in the reforms and the minions of lobbyists and lawyers they continue to funnel money and little chips away at even very weak but existing rules. obama has allow that to happen. he is never named a name against bankers. he talks about wall street fat cats like the broad category. he has not said what wall street needs to do. it is a fluffy rhetoric. >> would he even said what he said in 2009, talking about the fat cat bankers, today? >> no. he believes -- or i should say he says that the 2010 dodd-f rank act is relative to fdr's reform when he did the glass-steagall act and the new deal and created the sec. it wasn't. thanks cap bigger. the banks got bigger.

the risk got bigger. nothing was fixed by that "reform act." he doesn't need to say that now. you said it in the beginning to consolidate his base and get elected, whatever it was, the many presidents -- democrats are little more guilty than republicans because i think they feel they need to do it -- from wilson on have always bashed the bankers in their campaign speeches. and it comes right down to it, most of them have been very hopeful and symbiotic with them after they have been in office. it tends to get said to the public. then when you look at what occurs, it is a completely different matter because they are connected. >> nomi prins, thank you for being with us, with the new book, "all the presidents' bankers: the hidden alliances that drive american power." you can read an excerpt of that block on our website at democracynow.org. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> we turn now to what is known as the black budget.

that's the term for secret budgets of the nation 16 intelligence agencies including the nsa and cia. last year the "washington post" used documents leaked by whistleblower edward snowden to reveal the nation's black budget to be $53 billion. "the post" reported the cia had received a 56% increase in its budget over the past decade, while the nsa got a 54% hike. the black budget also revealed the nsa is paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year to u.s. telephone and internet companies for clandestine access to the communicative networks. a bipartisan push has begun on capitol hill to make hearts of the black budget public. democratic congressmen peter and republicant commerce woman cynthia lummis of of karinn -- wyoming legislation to force the president to include the total dollar amount request to preach intelligence agency. the bill is called the

intelligence budget transparency act. congressman peter welch joins us now from capitol hill. can you talk about just what this act would make transparent? >> pretty basic information. how much of taxpayer money is being spent on intelligence gathering activity. the topline number. there is not just the nsa and cia, we have 17 different intelligence gathering agencies. those budgets have exploded. they are up over 50%. going have any oversight whatsoever, you have to know what the budget is. in fact, the 9/11 commission advocated this. somebody with solid credentials on national security is a strong proponent of letting the taxpayers know how much is being spent. think about it. if you had 16 different government agencies administering the food stamp program on a secret budget, how would you know where they were

court manning or not, uplicating -- cord ordinating or not, duplicating? >> you've called for ending the gag order on private companies in terms of their role in disclosing private information. can you detail that for us? >> these telephone companies through the fisa court are being recorded turnover information that their customers think was private. they're under a gag order. they can't disclose what the government is seeking. what you essentially have with the expansion of the fisa court definition of what is acceptable for the intelligence agencies to with private companies private information on you and me in regard to turn that over in secret. what we want to do in the is end the gag order.

or verizon is asked to turn over information, they should be able to disclose that. >> i want to turn to a clip. this is a comment that was made ring a recent ted talk by richard legend who said congress had authorized the nsa's very's programs. >> it important in other programs we are talking about were all authorized by two different presidents, two different political parties, twice by congress, and i federal judges 16 different times. anis not -- this is not assay running off and doing its own thing. this is a legitimate activity of the united states foreign government that was agreed to by all the branches of the united states government. president madison would have been proud.

>> yet when congress then discovered what was actually being done without authorization, many were shocked. is only now that it is coming out publicly that they knew exactly what you are doing. is a big body. there's 535 of them and they change out frequently in the case of the house and every two years. the nsa provided all of the relevant information to our oversight committees. the dissemination of that information throw congress -- throughout congress is something they manage. i think i would say congress tobers have the opportunity make themselves aware -- in fact, a significant number of them, the ones were assigned oversight responsibility, did have the ability. you have had the chairman's say

that. ,> that was richard ledgett talking about congress authorizing what the nsa has done. commerce member welch, would you agree with what he is saying? >> it is extraordinary disrespectful of the privacytion and of the rights of the american citizens. sensenbrenner was a conservative republican who helped write the law. he is appalled by the overreach of the intelligence gathering agencies and the nsa. was the rightre to go to fisa court on basis of reasonable suspicion to examine recordssave my phone that has the test of ties and you could get my records, what the nsa has done has said they can get everybody's -- all americans e-mails, text, and

telephone messages and follow them just on the basis of the law and its authorization. that is so overbroad and so disrespectful, that there is no end to what they can do. the second point is, it may be that some of the intelligence committee members had access to this information, but the american people did not have access to this information that there was this new nsa policy which essentially was authorizing a dragnet of all of our e-mails and telephone records. i think is an incredible self-serving stretch that shows an appalling disrespect to the constitution and the reasonable limits that have to be part of the balance of security and privacy. >> congress member, your bread in a letter to president obama -- you have written a letter to president obama. how is important to you and significant is it to you that you have gotten republicans to join you in the copper transparency?

incredibly important. we're not going to get things done unless there are people on both sides. abouteslummis privacy rights. she cares about security. in our coalition, we're seeing left a right who all say there has to be security, but we have to protect the constitutional rights of the american citizens. the second thing, we all know you can't give a blank check to any agency. the intelligence that during agencies obviously had an opportunity and necessary to get more money after 9/11, but at some point he have to step back and kick the tires. are they doing a good job? are they duplicating? are they getting value for the money the taxpayers are giving them? they are not immune to oversight just because they're doing something that is important, anymore than any other governmental agency. by the way, the intelligence

gathering agencies have blown it on many occasions. it is not as though the fact they do important work means they always do it well. they got wrong on weapons of mass destruction. they were involved in thompson to the critically elected leaders like in guatemala -- in toppling democratically elected leaders in guatemala and even iran. >> commerce member welch, do you believe edward snowden should be allowed back into the united states and should not be charged with treason is the white house is pushing for? we know there's a debate inside the white house. >> it is a tough call. a lot of the information that snowden revealed his information i believe we should have had. like the dragnet surveillance. that should've been disclosed to the american people because that is a policy debate. information, i'm glad that we know that now. on the other hand, there was an enormous data dump by mr. snowden that may include things that we have no business

knowing. i just don't know what the story is on the full picture, so i'm undecided on that. >> do you believe he is a whistleblower? >> the definition of whistleblower is your disclosing some information that the public has a right to know. my view on the aspect of it where there was this wholesale dragnet of our information, that sort of fits into that category. some of the other information guest is closed may be secrets and that could be in a different category. i'm not sure it is a one-size-fits-all with mr. snowden. >> on monday, the supreme court to client to hear the case that challenged book surveillance -- bulk surveillance that basically called bulk election almost or william. almost orwellian. >> i think it is almost orwellian. number one, getting all of our

information in the hands of the governmental agency or we have no idea how it will be used, history suggest that absolute power corrupts. and we can anticipate that somewhere, sometime, some president is going to use that information. i do have a real objection to it. secondly, i think it really interferes with good intelligence gathering. it becomes like an agency that is getting information that affects -- it is creating haystacks in order to search for needles. the hard work of intelligence has to be to follow the leads, to develop them, and not just to have access to all information on everybody in the world when you don't have an identifiable target you are following, a trail or lead you are following. >> congress member welch, you have been a high near in many different areas. in these last few minutes, we want to ask you questions on a few different issues. governor shumlin devoted his

whole state of the union address to the issue of the heroin crisis in vermont. that has led to national coverage of this issue, specifically in vermont and all over. yet the front page pieces on "the times" and is "rolling stone" these at has the picture of beloved vermont maple syrup but it says "error when" -- " heroin" on it. this is ripping through your state. >> it is a real issue all across america, but particularly in rural america. the governor made a bold decision. many of my colleagues said to me when i got down here am a how does that affect the reputation of your state? the second thing is, what he talked about, we have that in my state, in my district. what has happened is he has brought out into the sunlight

what many of our law enforcement officers and health care workers on the front line had been aware of. what i think is the most important part of this is that the law enforcement community in vermont -- and probably true of other places -- they have come to the forefront saying, you cannot arrest your way out of this. there has to be a significant focus on treatment, number one. number two, the fact it is a public issue i think it's immense relief to parents who are terrified about some of their kids were getting in trouble. it is also in our health care community, putting an emphasis on some of the real hazards of painrescription, medication neck is limited this dependency. the public discussion and the focus on treatment, particularly for a lot of the folks who are the victim end of this, not the dealers or sellers, you know, throw the book of those folks, i think it is been very helpful.

everything you've have seen as governor shumlin talking about vermont, a lot of our rural communities are being afflicted with this. >> on the issue of drugs, you have also been a leader in calling -- first of all, repealing subsidies to drug companies and negotiating lower drug prices. can you talk about this issue with pharmaceuticals? >> it is an exploding cost to health care. we need good pharmaceuticals and a research budget in order for them to do it, but if you have pharmaceuticals like this last trip they came out that is promising but is $80,000 year, you will make it impossible for people who need it to afford it. cramu're just going to these huge profit driven explosive prices on the taxpayer, it is going to bury medicare and medicaid. they have price negotiations. in the medicare program, congress thanks to tom delay, made it illegal to bulk price and negotiate when buying drugs,

the ba oftentimes, the same drug 50%, 60%, 70%-- less than through medicare. is billions and billions of dollars that we could save, in my view, without adversely affecting the bottom line of a lot of these pharmaceutical companies that are doing good work, of putting the squeeze on the taxpayer and the employers and individuals who are paying premiums. >> the house of representatives last week voted or passed legislation that would effectively force government agencies to stop studying climate change, calling on the national oceanic atmospheric administration related bodies to focus on forecasting severe weather, but not exploring the likely cause. firm on is a case study of the effects of climate change -- vermont is a case study of the effects of climate change. your devastated by hurricane irene. talk about how you feel as a

person who has championed the issue of renewable energy, what needs to be done, and how did that get past? >> you may have noticed science does not exist in capitol hill. fact-free zone on some issues. when it comes to climate change, people kind of make it up as they go along. passing up law that prohibits you from getting information in order to make decisions is pretty upside down and bizarre. but that is the world we are in. on the climate change issue, here is the key. if we take on the challenge of climate change rather than ignore it, it not only will be good for the environment, it will create jobs. this is the one area where there is some bipartisan help in congress. i don't win any arguments or persuade my colleagues on leaving the science of climate change and it exists, that many of my colleagues do believe on efficiency. but if you can use as fuel, whatever the source, you will save money and create jobs.

so that is a promising area where we can do something good for the environment and also build the economy. the real dilemma here is that the folks who are so against climate change, the challenges we have to face, i think the policy -- possibility that taking on a challenge we can create a stronger economy eludes them and that is what we have to do. the middle-class is getting squeezed. they need jobs and we need to find ways to build our infrastructure and have stronger energy policy that can help create jobs and increase wages. >> president obama has pushed for nuclear renaissance. you come from -- you're the senate president dealing with your nuclear power plant, one of the country that were shut down. here we are in the wake of fukushima, the third anniversary. what are your thoughts about nuclear power and the fact these plans are being built in georgia for the first time in more than

30 years? do you think nuclear power is the answer to the issue of climate change? >> i don't. there is a norm is economic obstacles, aside from the safety issues and the fact we still don't know what to do with nuclear waste. the amount of subsidies the taxpayer has to provide in order to get those plants built, the loan guarantees that have to be provided, and the so-called standby agreements where if there is a delay in permitting, the expense is passed on to the taxpayer, is just a monstrous --l that makes economically makes it economically unjustifiable. the second thing, with a lower cost of gas, natural gas, that is having adverse impact on the market power of the snippet generators. that was the major reason why the plant in vermont is being closed is that entergy, the owner, came to the conclusion wasn't economically feasible to

keep it going even though they actually had a shot at doing that. i think the economics of nuclear power, not just the safety to be, make it unlikely the path forward. ,> congress member peter welch thank you for joining us, cosponsor of the intelligence budget transparency act that would shine a spotlight on the 16 budgets of the intelligence agencies of the united states. when we come back, a major ruling on americans killed in drone strikes in yemen. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit challenging the government's killing of three americans in yemen by drone strikes. the families a muslim cleric anwar al-awlaki, his teenage son hadlrahman, and samir khan filed a suit accusing top u.s.

officials of unlawful killings. but on friday, u.s. district court judge rosemary collyer ruled the victims constitutional rights were never violated, and said the u.s. officials involved can be held liable. she also added -- by mariawe're joined lahood. one of the attorneys working on anwar al-awlaki's case. welcome. explain the significance of judge colyer's ruling. >> the court essentially -- we rely on the courts to uphold our constitution, especially our right to due process, not to be killed. essentially, she did give the executive carte blanche to kill anyone it deems to be a terror suspect far from any battlefield, with no due process, even if they don't really post an imminent threat.

it is not only -- she said we don't give the courts -- she doesn't give the executives carte blanche, but she refused to allow claim in the area of national security, even for a violation of the constitution, even for the killing of an american citizen. >> are there any more legal challenges to pursue in order to obtain the right to due process? been -- there have courts have advocated their roles with torture, with indefinite detention. here we thought, finally, the courts would uphold the constitution of the killing of an american citizen. the victims families have been through next ordinary amount. they have suffered in unimaginable loss, having their sons and grandson -- >> abdulrahman was 16 years old and born in denver. books he was gruesomely killed by their own government.

the families have undergone the pain of having their name maligned publicly and having the injustice of having the court slamming the door in her face. >> who did you sue? >> panetta, petraeus -- >> explain their positions. >> the secretary of defense, the cia director, other members of the military, the jsoc director. >> the court said government officials must be trusted with a target your citizens abroad? >> yes. obviously,rageous, they can't be trusted with anything. there's no transparency. we have no idea who their killing, why they're killing people. there are no legal standards that have been publicly released. they have disclosed if you about aboutitizens -- a few citizens, but refused to expose

the memos. >> where does this go from here? what are the implications of this for other cases? and our others being sued in cases? >> there are no seats that i know of for accountability like this. there are suits for transparency to get information about the government is doing. but that is the first death and accountability. but no other cases that i know of. i think it is up -- not only up to the victims of these strikes to demand investigations and accountability, but also up to all of us to demand that as well. necessarily in the courts, but in the streets. >> you can see the coverage of the cases of samir khan and the awlakis on democracynow.org. maria lahood, thank