05/13/14 05/13/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! document afterer document in the nsa boasts of how collecting at all is their driving mission. one document not only says what we want to do is collect it all, says "new collection posture is collect it all, sniff it all, process it all, partner it all, exploit it all." >> pulitzer prize-winning journalist glenn greenwald is

back in the united states. it has been almost a year since his first revelations on the national security agency. he is out the new book, "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state." the latest disclosures may surprise you. did you know the national security agency is not only intercepting e-mails and phone calls, but the regular mail, too ? >> cisco ships it to that person. the nsa physically intercepts the package, takes it from fedex or the u.s. mail service, brings it back to nsa headquarters, opens up the package, and plans a backdoor device on one of these devices, resealed it with factory seal and since it to the unwitting user who then provides internet service to large numbers of people, all of which is instantly redirected to the depositories at the nsa. >> today, glenn greenwald for the hour. all of that and more coming up.

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the u.s. has begun flying piloted surveillance missions overnight -- who nigeria as part of the search efforts for the nearly 300 schoolgirls kidnapped last month. it is unclear how many planes are involved, but the state department says it is providing intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance support to the nigerian government. on monday, a nigerian officials said its government is exploring all options to rescue the girls from captivity. at the moment, we are with other parts of the world. these are part of the options that are available for us, and many more. we useecessary that

whatever action to get our girls from captivity there in now. >> the nigerian government has already refused a boko haram proposal to free the girls in return for release of the militant groups prisoners. the group leader floated the offer in a video on monday. by allah, these girls will not leave our hands until you release our brothers in your prison. you took our brothers four or five years ago, and now we are in your presence. you do many things, and now you talk of these girls. we will not let them go until you release our brothers. we will not let them go until you release our brothers. >> the boko haram's igo show close to nearly half of the missing 300 girls from the first

public image of the kidnapped schoolgirls since their abduction nearly a month ago. pro russian groups in eastern ukraine have asked to join russia following this weakens chaotic referendum for self-rule. on monday, rebel leaders declared an economist people's republic of donetsk and called for russian annexation like that in crimea earlier this year. the ukrainian government in kiev has refused to recognize the separatists bid all stock rush has also stopped short of an endorsement and is unlikely to carry out another annexation. new studies show global warming is helped cause in a reversible collapse of the ice sheet in western antarctica. scientists from nasa and the university of washington say human driven climate change has but up the glaciers retreat, threatening a global sea rise in the coming centuries from four to 13 feet. in a video released by nasa i'm a a scientist of the university of california irvine said the melting has passed the point of no return. >> we passed the point of no return and at this point, it is

just a matter of time before disappear into the sea. this system is evolving very fast. it is progressing exactly as you would expect if it was about to collapse. they are retreating at rates about one kilometer per year. if these glaciers were sustained -- they could disappear. >> rising sea levels pose the biggest threat to coastal areas and low-lying nations which are vulnerable to surging waters like those seen in superstorm sandy. a bipartisan measure to encourage energy efficiency has failed in the senate following republican obstruction. the noncontroversial bill called for new efficiency standards in federal and private buildings. it crumbled on monday after republicans tried to add approval of the keystone xl oil pipeline and the blocking of new epa regulations. senate majority leader harry reid refused to grant a vote on the amendments, leading republicans to filibuster the overall bill.

over 150 same-sex couples have exchanged vows in arkansas following a court ruling striking down the state's marriage equality ban. on monday, a long procession of couples tied the knot at the county courthouse in little rock will sto. >> words cannot explain the feeling we have. there's so much love in that room and the amount of energy. >> we had a ceremony about seven years ago in our home, but it wasn't recognized by the state. this is a huge deal. >> i figured we would be the last date. i did not even think we would have a lottery. standing here with my family, fixing to do what of the greatest things that my life and she will be recognized as my wife. >> the arkansas ban was struck out on friday, making arkansas the sixth state to have its gay marriage ban overturned this year. the arkansas attorney general has appealed, but the arkansas supreme court put off ruling on

whether to halt the marriages until today. texas is set to carry out the first u.s. execution since last month's botched killing of a death row prisoner in oklahoma. robert james campbell, a convicted rapist and murderer, is scheduled for death tuesday evening. as in the oklahoma case, texas officials have refused to reveal the source of the sedative that will be used in the lethal injection. campbell's attorneys have asked for a stay in the lifting of the secrecy surrounding the execution drug. they've also accused state officials of hiding evidence that campbell has an intellectual disability, known more commonly as mental retardation. campbell has an iq of 69. the obama administration has offered the senate expanded access to secret memos authorizing the killings of americans overseas in a bid to defuse opposition to a judicial nominee that helped author them. a number of senators have voiced opposition to the nomination of david aaron to the u.s. court of appeals for the first circuit.

while serving in the justice department's office of legal counsel, barron helped write at least two memos that underpinned the government killing of the american-born cleric anwar al-awlaki. but senators, including mark udall of colorado and rand paul of kentucky, has said they will remain opposed to barron's nomination unless the memos are released to the public. several new york city council members are calling for leniency in the sentencing of occupy wall street activist cecily mcmillian following her conviction of assaulting a police officer. she says she struck out in suitably with her breast was grabbed from behind. she faces up to seven years in prison at her sentencing next week. on monday, a council member was among five to voice support for cecily mcmillan. she was joined by the national lawyers guild. >> this is the time we have to make sure our women are treated with the midi, with respect. we have to make sure that all law enforcement respects women,

the specs all individuals. we cannot any longer continue to have our women attacked in ways that are dangerous, the harmful, that are unconstitutional. >> recently summit he died in rikers because of conditions. we're not able to talk to rectally with cecily right now, but our thoughts are with her. we saw large group of people coming out to give support and asked the judge for leniency in the sentencing of coming. >> cecily mcmillian will be sentenced on monday. nine of the 12 jurors who convicted her have written to the judge asking for leniency. of managing director international monetary fund on monday canceled a planned commencement speech at one of the most prestigious us women's colleges after students protested honoring an organization that supports patriarchal systems. following the petition, christine lagarde said she is withdrawing to "preserve the

celebratory spirit of commencement day." week aftermes one secretary of state condoleezza rice canceled the commencement address at rutgers university following a wave of campus protest. a candidate in north carolina's democratic primary has died in a fall at his home. keith crisco had trailed former american idol contestant lay aiken in last week's contest and was apparently preparing to concede. aiken paid tribute by suspending his campaign and turning his website all blacked. he will square off in november against republican congress member incumbent renee ellmers. those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a democracyng you now! special. the first of the today interview with investigative journalist glenn greenwald. he has just published a riveting new book, "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state."

the book chronicles the inside story behind perhaps the biggest leak in the nations history. greenwald and filmmaker laura portraits with the journal -- first met with edward snowden in hong kong last june. days after their first meeting, greenwald published an explosive guardian" about the nsa collecting the phone records of millions of verizon customers daily. it was the first of hundreds of articles based on documents leaked by snowden. and more disclosures are now coming out. greenwald's book includes dozens of previous the secret nsa documents. for his reporting on the nsa, he recently won a george polk award and was part of the team from "the guardian" that just won the pulitzer prize in public service. glenn greenwald came to democracy now! studios on monday. glenn greenwald, we welcome you back to democracy now! great to have you in our studio for the first time since the edward snowden revelations, because of concerns you had of

coming into this country with threats you could be arrested. it is great to have you here with your new book. >> always great to be on democracy now!, particularly, in person. i am thrilled. >> let's go through the remarkable revelations in these documents that you and laura and other news publications have released one by one. start with prism and then go on to what you think are the most significant. >> the first story we reported on was the book metadata collection program where the nsa is collecting the telephone records of every single american every single day so they always know who we are calling, who is calling us, how long wispy, where we are we talk, and the device we use. that was one of the reasons why the story had that huge impact in america because this was not spying on muslims and muslim countries for which americans

are easily able to ignore, dismissed, or justify, but spying on americans domestically. the second story which i think was probably even more responsible for the worldwide explosion was the prism program because he revealed facebook and google and yahoo! and skype and microsoft were directly cooperating with the nsa in all sorts of extensive ways to ensure easy nsa access to the communication said take laced through those companies. the reason it was so significant is because unlike the nsa story of 2005 that involved at&t and sprint and verizon, u.s. domestic telephone companies am a internet companies are the primary needs of the entire first world, for lack of a better term, using to communicate. even lots of people in developing countries who are now looking to these companies as the primary means. you are not just talking about one country, but hundreds of millions, probably billions of people around the world who use these companies. to learn the nsa had invaded the

systems to such an extent, made this a global story. i remember the day after we published prism, my e-mail inbox was filled not just with requests for interviews from u.s. newspapers and u.s. networks, a from television outlets and newspapers all over the world -- literally, all over the world. that is what made it such a global story. every story after that, there are very independent individual significant ones, but what became apparent to people is literally, the mission of the nsa -- and this is them in their own words -- is to eliminate argosy globally -- privacy globally. that is not hyperbole. their mandate is to collect and store and when they want, analyze and monitor all forms of electronic medications that take place between human beings around the planet. once people understood this extraordinary system of suspicionless surveillance, which was truly unprecedented at

this scope, had been created completely in the dark. no one knew about this. than ame more surveillance story, it became a story about government secrecy and accountability and the role of journalism, and surly privacy and surveillance in the digital age. >> your book is called, "no place to hide." you reveal previously secret nsa files. why don't you go through some of those. >> one of the first set of documents i wanted to publish that were new was about this nsa mission collect it all. when we first reported that keith alexander from the nsa went to the british version of the nsa and gave a speech and said, why can't we just collect all of the signals all of the time? the nsa's claim was, that was an off handed joke.

you're vesting far too much significance in this comment that was sort of an out of context clip you made. the reality is, document after document after document in the nsa boasts of how collect it all is their driving mission. one document not only says what we want to do is collect it all, it says our new collection posture is collect it all, sniffed it all, process it all, partner it all, exploit it all. i just wanted to settle that debate once and for all that the claims of the nsa is making versus the claims we are making don't need to be resolved race on faith, but just look at what the nsa documents say. there are other documents that talk about the strategic partners that the nsa has in the corporate world. they list 80 of her most significant corporate partners including at&t and hewlett-packard and oracle, essentially, the leading companies of the technological

world. there are lots of documents that detail how the purpose of the spying system is not to detect terrorist plots were national security plots, but inrwhelmingly economic nature. they spy on the u.n. and oil companies and corporations. there spying on behalf of department of commerce. one of the biggest stories that is new in the book is this program that really is quite remarkable, which is all over the world, people buy routers and switches and servers, which are the devices that let corporations or municipalities or villages provide internet service to large numbers of people at once. hundreds or even thousands. there are american companies that are leaders in these products such as cisco. what the nsa will do whatever it decides it wants to, want some of the orders a product from

cisco, cisco ships it to that person. the nsa physically intercept the package, takes it from fedex or from the u.s. mail service, brings it back to nsa headquarters, opens up the package and plant a back your devices, one of these resealed with the factory seal and send it onto the unwitting user who then provides internet service to large numbers of people all of which is instantly to the nsa. but show a photo of this happening in "no place to hide." >> it is courtesy of the nsa. this document is an internal newsletter or the nsa communicates with itself and essentially boasts of what it considers its successes. it is a very gushing, easy read document that describes how they do this. they even show pictures of them cutting open the packages and then resealing them. routerhey get the cisco

with the knowledge or without the knowledge of cisco? >> it is unclear. there is no evidence that cisco knows about this or participate in it. it could be an unwitting victim. but at the same time, cisco is listed as one of the nsa's strategic partners. i certainly cooperate with the nsa in some way -- they certainly cooperate with the nsa in some way. >> there a lot of people watching or listening or reading this right now, glenn greenwald, who are looking at their cisco routers -- maybe in the ceiling or in some box somewhere. what should they be thinking or doing? >> it is hard to say. one of the remarkable part about this story, this specific story, that for many years the u.s. government has been warning the world not to buy routers come switches, and servers from chinese companies on the grounds the chinese government are invading these products and putting backdoor surveillance

switches on them and saying you cannot trust the products. the largest chinese company announced leaving the u.s. market because they been so demonized by the us government that they could not sell their products anymore. to find out u.s. government is doing exactly that -- >> or maybe saying it because toy want people -- they want push people in the direction of cisco so they can monitor? >> precisely. it is not just typically gross hypocrisy. way is there, but it is more extensive than that. i do think a big part of the motive in warning the world off chinese products is so the world will instead buy their products the nsa can invade. >> anymore on cisco and the memo the nsa had that you read? >> there are documents in which they discuss failures in the system and how to fix that and the communications they're losing because they are not able to operate very effectively, the

cisco routers and switches, just showing some kind of daily banal problems that arise as part of how widespread this program is. but pulitzer prize winning journalist glenn greenwald, author of the new book, "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state." we will be back with him in a moment. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we're speaking with glenn greenwald, the torch polk award-winning pulitzer prize winning the award winning journalist who is back in the united states after almost a year since those first revelations came out from hong kong. his new book out today called, "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state." let's turn to edward snowden in his own words speaking to german television in january. >> i don't want to print the

editorial stories of the journalists, but i will say there is no question that the u.s. is engaged in economic spying. if there is information that they think would be beneficial to the national interests, not the national security and of the united states, they will go after that information. >> that is edward snowden. talk about economic espionage. >> this is a critical point. not so much because the was government has vehemently denied the spying, not so much because they've accused other countries of engaging in economic spying while they do it -- although that is true -- but it shows how deceitful the u.s. government is with its own public as they have vehemently denied to american citizens they engage in economic spying. and yet so many of the revelations we have managed to report on from targeting the largest brazilian oil company petrobras that funds huge numbers of social programs to

spying on economic conferences that take place in various regions throughout the world that are designed to negotiate financial treaties to spying on the world bank and the imf and the swiss banking system are all about, honestly, spying for economic gain. our documents in the nsa's own archive is republished in the book for the first time that simply state explicitly that a function of the nsa is to gain economic insight into what is taking place in the world. calls itswhat the nsa customers, which are the agencies within the u.s. government who submit request to the nsa like any other customer would to a business, and asked to spy on certain people. some of those customers are the ones you'd expect like the cia and department of defense fence, but others are the department of agriculture and department of conquer -- commerce. clear, ample, mountains of evidence that the nsa engages in exactly the kind of economic spying they have vehemently denied the american people think h in. >> ones like presented by the nsa and gchq show targets

include petrobras, the russian oil company gas prone, and the russian airline. it says in 2009,, shannon wrote a letter to keith alexander offering his gratitude and congratulations for the outstanding signals intelligence support that the state department received regarding the fifth summit of the americas . he wrote, the nsa gave us deep insight into the plans and intentions of the other summit participants. shannon went on to name cuba and venezuela government -- the cuba and the venezuelan president hugo chavez. >> this is a fascinating story because this is part of what we had to report on in result. amazing thing about the summit was the summit was actually spearheaded by then president of brazil who wanted a regional summit to essentially let all these countries have tensions in the hemisphere band together on

the one area where they can agree which are economic contracts. what this document showed is thomas shannon, then at the state department, was effusive in his praise for the nsa, essentially saying thank you for letting us on the negotiating strategy and what they were really willing to do. brazil. that story in at the time, very awkwardly, thomas shannon was the u.s. ambassador to brazil. not only leading and encouraging intra-leading the spying and asking for, but doing so specifically at an economic summit that brazil itself that helped organize. it was a very awkward moment for thomas shannon. >> and the response of president to self? >> it was interesting because the first story we did in brazil was about spying on brazilians

indiscriminately, the collection of e-mail and telephone events by the nsa and shocked brazilians. the resilient government was not particularly moved by that. once he began reporting on things like the invasion of this economic summit, and particularly the targeting of president rousseff herself and the targeting of petrobras and finishing with the canadian tarting of the ministry of mines and energy, it became an enormous story in brazil to the point where president rousseff, despite really not wanting to, was forced to cancel her state andt to the white house with the u.n. and get a stinging denunciation of the american spying program while barack obama waited in the hallway and was next to speak. it was some impressive leadership on the part of the brazilian government, even though it took a lot of stories to get them there. >> and president obama had just

met with a german chancellor angela merkel and much of the coverage of what happened in washington had to do with what was happening to her and her cell phone. >> it was a most ironic for the same thing that happened in brazil have it there. the first reader spiegel broke about the nsa was done by laura poitras and several journalists in the article was about spying and discreetly on the german population. the merkel government made clear they did not really care about that much. they issued some meek denunciations, but were very willing to ignore the story. only want to get reported that angela merkel herself was the target of surveillance didn't suddenly become a serious issue, but that has now created real difficulties in the u.s.-german relations because of the history of spying abuses in germany i'm a boat under the nazi regime and the stasi regime. >> your book also includes a a letter from a high-level australian official to spy on us

trillion citizens. >> if you listen to these governments in response to the stories we have been reporting on, they will say, to their own citizens, you don't need to worry because therere all these restrictions on how we can spy on you. yes, we can spy on the rest of the world as much as we want, but these governments say when it comes to you, our wonderful citizens, we have all kinds of legal restrictions. yet what this document shows is that what these governments will do is ask their surveillance partners to spy on their own people for them, and then give them the fruits of that surveillance so they can learn everything they want to know about their own population while pretending to abide by the legal restrictions that have been imposed on them. >> glenn greenwald, a lot of people are happy that implants you can increasingly get access to the internet. can you talk about your new revelations in this book, the access to the internet? i publishedn why

the story is because it reveals so much about how these agencies think. the documents demonstrate there have been hundreds of millions of not billions of dollars spent to make certain the nsa and the gchq can listen to any in-flight cell phone calls they want from those phones that are embedded on the seats in front of you. more and poorly, to be of the monitor all internet activity that takes place over the wi-fi service of a commercial jet. a did not do this because there was a case where someone on the plane plotted something they were not able to monitor. they're not doing it because they're are specific targeted concerns. they're doing this because they are obsessed with the idea there might be some place on the planet that you can go for a few hours and communicate without there being able to monitor what you're saying. that shows the institutional mindset, which is there should never be a moment where you can develop the capability to go and speak without their surveillance . that is the reason why they

targeted airplanes, the one place left in the world other than in person in the middle of nowhere, that you can actually speak or do things without their knowledge. liste nsa chart you have some of the countries whose embassies and consulates were targeted by the nsa. eu,il, bulgaria, colombia, france, georgia, greece, he and a, mexico, slovakia, south africa, taiwan, and is way left, the annam and also list the methods of collection. you can explain them. magnetic andens, nations. go on from there. including jumping the air gap. the reason this document is a significant is because you can see we took some of the names of the countries on that list out which were the ones you would expect them to be targeting. these are the list of countries democratically elected, for the most part, and allies of the u.s.. these are buildings that are supposed to be sacred,

consulates and embassies in the united states, that are a crucial part of diplomacy, the ability of nations to communicate with one another and have diplomatic relations. what the list shows as for pretty much every single one of these buildings, the nsa has embedded the communication systems and collecting the information that take place even with some really extreme tactics like, for example, an air gap computer is the computer used that never connects to the internet. the idea being you can work with very sensitive documents on his computer and since you never connect to the internet, it is a must impossible for someone to know what you're doing. we use it as journalists all the time when we work on these documents. the only way to "jump the air gap" to actually invade as computers, is to physically go into the computer itself and plant a surveillance device within it. this document shows the nsa is doing even that kind of invasive stealth surveillance on its allies in their own consulates and embassies, even breaking into their offices, and planting

service devices within the machine. those are the extreme lengths the nsa goes. >> computer screens? >> computer screens, computer, to monitor what they're doing on the computer. >> magnetic emanations? >> these are waves of essentially figuring out what a computer is doing, tapping into how it functions, and then being able to suck all the data up. >> customs? >> i'm not sure what that is. we have asked several experts. it could be some tactic people are not aware of. >> the document you include from october 3, 2012 about the nsa targeting of "radicals"? >> one of the interesting things is, people are very aware of the co-intel abuses. i know you've had people on your show who have dissipated in the breaking of the fbi -- participated in the breaking in of the fbi. people are way or of j edgar

hoover's abuses. the nature is, the u.s. government looks at what people -- at people who oppose what they do as "a threat." people -- a lot of times people say, we don't have the reporting that shows the kind of abuse. a lot of the reporting we're still working on and i promise you is coming. are there is always been reporting that shows that. the document in the book that shows the nsa plotting about how to use information that it collected against people it considers "radicalize risk" planningey say are not terrorist attacks, simply express ideas the nsa considers radical. the nsa has collected their online sexual activity, chats of a sexual nature they have had come a pornographic websites in thesit, and plans

document on how to use this information publicly to destroy the reputations or credibility of those people to render them ineffective as advocates. other documents show the monitoring of who visits the wikileaks website in the collection of data that can identify who they are. there's information about how to use deception to undermine people who are affiliated with the online active group anonymous. >> no mention of occupy? >> no, which doesn't mean it was not done. it could just be documents that were not among the ones edward snowden collected. but it's early as the case their targeting people who engage in similar kinds of political activism for surveillance targeting. >> we're speaking with glenn greenwald, pulitzer prize-winning journalist, author of the new book, "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state." if you want a copy of the show, you can go to democracynow.org. when we return, glenn greenwald tells us just to edward snowden

is, what is his life story. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue our conversation with the investigative journalist glenn greenwald, whose new book just out today is titled, "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state." this is a clip of edward snowden

during his recent ted talk, when he was asked by chris anderson about the risks he took in exposing the nsa surveillance programs. >> most people would find situation you are in right now in russia pretty terrifying. happened or with the trinidad bradley manning , and therea manning was a story and bus feed singer people in the intelligence committee who want you dead. how are you coping with this, coping with the fear? >> it is no mystery that there -- iovernments out there have made clear again and again and again that i go to sleep every morning thinking about what i can do for the american people. i don't want to harm my government. i want to help my government.

the fact that they are willing to completely ignore due process, willing to declare guilt without ever seeing a trial, these are things we need to work against as a society that, hey, this is not appropriate. >> let's be clear, that is edward snowden having a ted talk on a person because he is political asylum in russia right now, very concerned if he came to the united states, well, as you say in your book, edward snowden was inconceivably calm in hong kong and felt profoundly at peace with what he had done. you write, he once joked, i called the bottom bunk at gitmo. talk about who edward snowden was and is. what is his background? you reveal things in his background that most people haven't talked about before. >> for my own personal

experience, this is probably the most stunning part of the story. and it is what i spent a lot of time in hong kong trying to figure out and investigate through asking him questions. i still think about it, which is, what would lead a seemingly ordinary 29-year-old that his entire life ahead of him, someone very well adjusted by all appearances with a good job and a very good income and a great career and a girlfriend who he loves and a family who is supportive, to give up his entire life, to literally risk decades in prison, not to enrich himself or extract vengeance on somebody, but in pursuit of a political ideal? to confront an injustice he believes is taking place? what takes place in someone's mind and in their spirit and in their sole that leads them to engage in such an obviously self-sacrificing act? that is a really hard but important question to think about. what really struck me most about him was that he grew up as the

son of essentially a family that worked for the federal government. his father was in the coast guard for 30 years. i think you could describe him as lower middle class. he grew up in a very kind of ordinary home. he actually did not even finish high school because he never was fulfilled by high school, despite how obviously intelligent he is. but he is somebody who is just very ordinary. he did not have family wealth or family connections or any prestige or power -- >> and he grew up where? virginia, essentially. he was born in north carolina and grew up in virginia. somebody who was instilled with a sort of traditional conception of patriotism as well. after he did not finish high school, the first thing he did was enlist in the u.s. army because he wanted to fight in the iraq war, which he thought was a noble endeavor. you believe the propaganda the iraqi people and got the basic

training was disillusioned when he said the officers training and were talking a lot about killing arabs and very little about liberating everybody. but even then he devoted himself to working at the nsa and cia -- >> in this training, he broke his legs. >> he broke both his legs, which is why he ended up not going to be iraq war. atn back then, you can look that as, he had this incredible journey were heeded this amazing rehearsal because he was so patriotic in a traditional sense of how it is conceived of that who was ready to go fight in the war and then 10 years later, he becomes his major whistleblower. to me, they're the same kind of act. they grew out of the same way of thinking about the world. and that is that he was willing to sacrifice his own life. and list because he thought it was his moral duty to help those who are being oppressed. two year10 years later, he sacrificed his liberty to help

those he thought were being oppressed. it comes out of the same moral code. the fact is individual with no moral power was risking everything in his life for political cause and really ended up changing the world, i think it is remarkable lesson for everybody. it is something that certainly inspired me and has shaped how i think about things and probably will for the rest of my life. >> so he worked -- well, he went into the military. and then talk about who he in something and nsa contractor and how he ends up working forbooz allen hamilton. there's this to limit and the national security state which is that they built this enormous apparatus and in order to have it function, you need huge numbers of people. unfortunately for the nsa, the only kinds of people who are really capable of thriving in this environment which requires very advanced and detailed knowledge of how the internet works, are people who have grown up in the internet culture who tend to be quite young and often

very antiauthoritarian. they are essentially recruiting from people who are kind of inclined to become hackers, rather than officials in the national security state apparatus. they try and recruit these people and convert them to think the way they need them to think. obviously, does not always successful, which is why you've had a series of whistleblowers, these people who end up being quite rebellious. snowden was sort of poorly adjusted. he had not found his place in the world as a young man. he did not finish high school, which is a disappointment to himself and his parents. right away in this environment, he thrived because he had some -- you said it incredible facility. was in this incredible facility. he went from working as an nsa security guard to some random building at the university of maryland, to being invested with

increasing levels -- >> wait, you said at an nsa building at the university of maryland? >> there is a covert facility at the university of maryland that looks comes to all appearances on purpose, to be university of maryland office -- >> in college park? >> in college park. it is an nsa facility. it has the cooperation of government employees because it is a public school. that was the first facility at which he worked. >> can students freely go in and out? >> i don't know the details, i just know it was a secure building. >> so edward snowden was there as a guard? >> literally, security guard wearing the uniform and makeshift badge. i don't think he had a gun, but he had the rest -- >> how does he end up working at dell? >> he advanced to the national security state and got clearance. once you get security clearance, means there are all kinds of job

openings available for you. he spent three years working directly for the cia in geneva, became disillusioned with the cia and decided to shift to the nsa. because so much of our national security state is now privatized and outsourced, what it means to go work at the nsa usually means you're going to work for some huge corporation like booz allen wardell, general dynamics and all sorts of other corporations that have contracts at the nsa. he worked up at dell irking for the cia. by this point -- >> how does that work? dell is a private corporation, most people think. how are you then working for the cia? >> it is the same way if you want to go fight in the war in iraq or afghanistan or go be part of the drone program in somalia, you can go and work for the u.s. government and be a government employee but the more easier and certainly the more lucrative way is to go work for like water or corporations that

have -- like water or corporations that have connections. this is a vital part of the story. so much of what we consider to be military functions are now in the hands of the private sector. i think this 75% of the nsa budget is money that goes directly into the coffers of private corporations. we hear all the stuff about how everything is so well controlled, transparency, oversight. none of these mechanisms of controls apply to the private sector that are running the vast bulk of the nsa. despite being a private enclave of private corporation had access to these systems -- nsa systems. aboutnn greenwald, talk why edward snowden leads dell, what he feels he can to there, and ends up that booz allen. >> when he first decided he was

willing to cross this line and become a whistleblower, he had thought about it back in geneva when he was at the cia and for a variety of reasons, including his believe the election of obama would result in the curbing of some of these abuses, he thought it would not be necessary to do it. once he saw obama was actually not just continuing but in some cases escalating all of these policies, he said -- he realized that readership is about acting as an example to others rather than waiting for others to act. he committed mentally while at dell to becoming a whistleblower. you started thinking about what documents do i need to tell this story the need to be told? he was able to access a lot of them there. somedecided there were documents he could access only by getting this particular job that booz allen, that was part

of a facility where the these document existed in hawaii. >> what was he coming to realize working at dell with the cia? >> one of the things he told me was a turning point for him was he had an nsa job in japan where -- this is the job right before dell. he said he was able to watch the real-time surveillance being fed by drones in which you could see an entire village in a place where america is not at war like somalia or pakistan, and you could literally see little dots of people and what they were doing. then he would have intelligence about who they were and who they were calling and this vast picture that was able to be created of them by not even physically being in the country. and the invasiveness and the extent of that surveillance he said was something even he, working inside his community,

had no idea even existed. >> he was watching a village before it was struck by a drone? >> these were surveillance drones, typically. it wasn't even necessarily that the drones were telling people -- although, a lot of times they did. that was the reason to put these villages under surveillance, to decide who to kill. but he could watch how much the u.s. government could covertly put entire populations under microscope. the fact is have been done without any democratic debate or his fellow citizens going about it, was extremely alarming to him. the more he came to see just how ubiquitous the system of suspicionless surveillance was, the more compelled he felt not to keep it a secret. >> and not only the drone surveillance, but watching people type every letter. explain what that was. >> there's a certain kind of malware which essentially is a virus that enters your computer. there are all kinds of ways they can get that virus onto your computer. they can induce you to click on a link by sending at your e-mail

that once you click on it, will inject the virus into your system. they can send you a file that once you open by: urgent, thinking notice, you open the file and the opening of the file index the virus. or they can physically access her computer and put it in that way. there, theyus is own your computer. they can literally see every keystroke you enter. one of the documents we published that they had done this to 50,000 machines and the new york times reported it was 100,000, and we just about a month and half ago at the intercept reported was millions of machines preparing to do this to, so he would be able to watch the outcome of this malware or people without any idea their machines have been affected, or having every keystroke they entered, every website they click on, every e-mail they sent , open or read, every chat which they engaged is read by an

analyst thousands of miles away. he found that deeply disturbing. >> i want to go to that place in the videotape that you first posted at "the guardian" that laura filmed where he talks about the kind of typing that he could see. >> any analyst and any time can target anyone anywhere. where this communications will be picked up and on the range of sensor networks and the authorities that analyst is empowered with not all have the ability to target everything. but i, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authority to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to federal judge even the president if i had a personal e-mail. >> that is edward snowden. a federal judge or the president of the united states. and this, of course, is what the obama administration at first completely denied. >> the obama administration -- i say this adviser bleed -- was knowingly lying when he to the public when they deny the truth

of what he said. this was in the first week and that was explosive claim and the nsa had no idea what evidence we had so they thought they could lie with impunity. i published a lot more in the book that demonstrates exactly what analyst are capable of doing and what they're capable of doing is what edward snowden said, which is the phrase that describes what the nsa is attempting to do and close to doing, collect it all. they want to collect and store the entire internet, literally every e-mail, every website you click on. --y have the ability using they can literally in a simple form that is extremely easy to use, just enter the e-mail address you want to read e-mails from, click on a drop-down menu then thefication" and

database returns to your desk all of the e-mails from the selector, the e-mail address, that you just asked for. it is literally that easy. there's no supervisor who has to approve it. there is very little auditing that takes place even after the fact. an unjustified search, they concoct a reason for why it is being done. what he said an nsa analyst can do, which is you stop and read the communications of any person, including the president, is exactly what the system has been constructed to enable. >> you talked about working at dell and him working as a security guard, and of course at booz allen. what about the defense intelligence agency? he was teaching others. >> it is fascinating. you can know the media is unbelievably unreliable and all sorts of ways when you're just watching them kind of from a distance, but when you're in the middle of a story, you realize the extreme extent to which that

is true. i must instantly, the u.s. media decided to depict him as this kind of idiot, low level i.t. guy who just kind of stumbled onto these documents. i knew from the beginning the reality was exactly the opposite. he was a very highly trained cyber operative who had been not only trained in the highest levels of cyber attack and cyber defense, he was trained as a hacker to invade other countries systems and to protect the united states. he advanced to a level where he was training of operatives. and how to protect information, but also how to steal from other places. >> he is training government operatives? >> about how to do the sorts of things. he was a very sophisticated operative who had been trained essentially how the still information. there's an irony that he is now when charged for espionage it is really the nsa during the espionage, stealing. they trained them to still from

other governments, but not from their own. right away, it was clear he was going to be the number one most wanted fugitive in the world. >> just to be clear, all of that is to say that the government knew exactly who he was. once he revealed himself. >> sure. knowieve they did not prior to that article being published who the source of these documents were. it took them a while to get up to speed and up and running and to realize the magnitude of it. i think he did reveal himself to the government. i don't think a new by then who he was. but once he then identified himself, they knew exactly who he was, what his capabilities were, and what they had trained him in. >> this is president obama speaking on charlie rose last june. this was weeks after edward snowden had revealed some of what he knew. >> what i can say unequivocally is that if you are a u.s. person, the nsa cannot listen to

your telephone calls and the nsa cannot target your e-mails with mike and have not. >> and have not. they cannot and have not by law unless they -- usually, it would not be they, it would be the fbi -- go to the court and obtain a warrant and seek probable cause for the same way it has always been. the same way growing up watching movies, you want to set up a wiretap, you have to go to a judge, show probable cause. >> that is president obama in june, weeks after the first revelations came out. glenn greenwald? >> of all the statements that are then made by the government that have been false, i think that one is the most to liberally and starkly false. 2005 thata scandal in

the bush a administration was used talking on the telephone calls of americans without obtaining warrants from the court. congress, a bipartisan congress, supported by president obama, then senator obama, enacted a new law in 2008 fisa amendments act for the purpose to legalize the essence of the bush program. what the law said was the nsa has the power to listen in on the telephone conversations of americans were read their e-mails without a warrant, without a warrant whenever they're speaking to a foreign national. so all the time the nsa listens to the telephone calls of americans were read their e-mails without going and getting a warrant, completely contrary to what president obama said, and the others active it is as well, the pfizer court is a well-known joke. it was created in the mid-1970's after the church committee uncovered decades of surveillance abuses. the government had to find a way to placate american anger. they said, don't worry, we will

create this court that from now on the government has to go to to get permission. a created the court to be the ultimate rubberstamping court. it meets in secret and only the government is allowed to appear. as a result, by design, this court almost never rejects any request for surveillance -- even to the extent of what president obama said his truthful in the limited since it was, it is extremely misleading because there is very little oversight on the system. >> glenn greenwald, author of the new book, "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state." part twoomorrow for when he discusses meeting edward snowden in hong kong last june and glenn's reaction to the pulitzer prize. if you like a copy of today's show, go to democracynow.org. democracy now is hiring three part-time video news production fellows. kennedy should have video shooting and editing experience. visit democracynow.org for more details.

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