06/27/14 06/27/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from chicago and new york, this is democracy now! >> we were enveloped by the troops. when they got a few yards past us, within a dozen yards from the temblor -- timorese, they opened fire. >> running for president in indonesia. trained prabowo subianto

extensiveccused of human rights abuses in the 1990's when he was head of the entry special forces. he was dismissed from the army in 1998 following accusations he was complicit in the abduction and torture of activists during political unrest in jakarta that led to the out time -- ouster of long-time dictator. we will go to indonesia this week with allan nairn who is there to rebuild the former general's role in mass killings of civilians. then historian gerald horne on the counterrevolution of 1776. the united states in many ways was really the first up state. africa, the south founding fathers of apartheid did not intend [indiscernible] >> all of that and more coming up.

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. sunni militants in iraq have reportedly executed up to 190 captives in the northern city of tikrit. the massacre took place earlier this month according to human rights watch. the news comes as iraq he prime minister maliki faces increasing pressure to resign for failing to unite the country or beat back ends by the islamic state of iraq and syria, or isis. another round of 50 u.s. special operations troops have arrived in iraq to act as military visors on the crisis. president obama has asked congress for $500 million to train and arm syrian rebels. if approved, it would mark the most erect military role in the conflict to date following more covert forms of support for the rebels. the request comes amidst growing concern about the influence of

isis militants in both iraq and syria. obama says the funds would go to a properly vetted rebels who are fighting but president bashar al-assad and the isis militants. the united nations says the syrian government is hampering the delivery of humanitarian aid. addressing the un security council, humanitarian chief valerie amos said out of the more than 240,000 people under siege, the u.n. could only reach about 1%. >> mr. president, in 2011, i told this council that one million people in syria needed humanitarian assistance. 10.8figure now stands at million. 1.5 million more than there were just six months ago. the number of people in need and hard-to-reach areas now stands at 4.7 million. an increase of 1.2 million since

resolution 2139 was adopted in february. >> amos said some syrian opposition groups have also hindered the delivery of aid by attacking or threatening humanitarian workers. the u.s. supreme court has struck down a massachusetts law establishing a 35 foot buffer zone around abortion clinics. the law was passed in response to a history of harassment and violence including the fatal shooting of two clinic workers in massachusetts in 1990 four. the law was opposed by anti-choice protesters who gathered outside clinics in an attempt to convince patients not to have abortions. in a unanimous ruling, the court found the law was too broad, but it did not reject all abortion clinic buffer zones and left the door open for narrower protections. in a press call on thursday, martha walz, former massachusetts state legislator, now head of the planned parenthood league of massachusetts, said --

she also raised the question of whether the supreme court's own buffer zone may be unconstitutional, based on the ruling. in another decision thursday, the supreme court struck down three appointments to the national labour relations board may by president obama during a three-day senate recess in 2012. the unanimous ruling severely restricts the ability of the president to make recess appointments in order to overcome congressional opposition. the decision could impact some 100 decisions made by the labor board while the appointees were serving. in international news, ukraine has signed a deal to strengthen ties with europe, seven months viktorkrainian president yanukovych was ousted over his opposition to the pact. the deal comes as a fragile cease-fire with pro-russian rebels in ukraine's east expires today.

are meeting ins brussels to discuss the ukrainian crisis. in libya, a prominent human rights activist has been assassinated on the day of the countries to election. salwa bugaighis was killed by gunmen who stormed her house in the city of in gaza on wednesday. and washington, d.c., state department spokesperson marie harf described her legacy in libya. >> she was a courageous woman and a true patriot. she was an advocate for political prisoners during the qaddafi regime and an organizer demonstrations against the regime to the february 17 revolution. an original member of the transitional national council after the uprising began. she resigned in protest over the absence of women's voices in the council to continue to play an active and powerful role supporting democracy, human rights, and participation of women in the be in politics until she was murdered on the day she another libyans went to

the pole to elect another government. wore a usarf sweatshirt during the press conference as the u.s. team faced germany in the world cup. there will u.s. lost him of the still advanced to the next round. in afghanistan, a former finance minister and world bank official says he has won the presidential election. the claim comes despite a locations -- allegations by his opponent that ghani colluded with afghan officials to still the vote. some 10,000 abdullah supporters marched against the alleged fraud in kabul today. canada's supreme court has issued a landmark victory for first nations who oppose the corporate exultation of their land. in what has been held as the most significant addition is rights case in canadian history, the court gave the first nation title over nearly 700 square

miles in british columbia. the ruling could apply to any ancestral lands that were not signed over in government treaties, including areas where the controversial northern gateway oil pipeline is slated to run. two hamas identified operatives as suspects in the alleged kidnapping of three israeli teenagers. the teens disappeared in the west bank earlier this month. israel has accused the mass of abducting them and is imposed a wide-ranging crackdown, arresting more than 370 palestinians and killing six. here in new york, peace activists, including pam sporn, rallied to denounce israel's actions. >> we call this emergency demonstration against the extreme violence that the israeli government is raining down upon palestinians throughout the occupied territories on the pretext that three israeli teenagers have been kidnapped. there has been no concrete evidence that those teenagers have been kidnapped, but even if

they have been, there is no reason for the collective punishment of millions of palestinians. certainly, the kind of violence that is happening right now throughout the west bank and gaza will not bring those boys home to safety from a wherever they might be. >> a new report by former top government officials warns the obama administration's could "create a slippery slope leading to continual or wider wars." the report, released by the stimson center, does not call for an end to drone strikes, but it has drawn attention because of its authors, who include former pentagon and cia officials. the report criticizes the secrecy of the drone wars and concludes --

the german government has canceled its contract with the u.s. telecommunications firm nsazon amidst concerns over spying. reports based on leaks by edward snowden revealed vast nsa spying in germany, including on 'sancellor angela merkel cellphone. verizon provided services for german government agencies. but in a statement thursday, germany's interior ministry said -- a u.s. military judge has upheld a ruling ordering the obama administration to release tightly held secrets about the cia's secret prison overseas. the government had appealed an april ruling ordering the cia to release details about its treatment of uss cole bombing suspect abd al-nashiri, including the names of personnel at the so-called black sites

where he says he was tortured. but in a newly disclosed ruling, judge james pohl upheld his original decision, calling for the information to be released to defense attorneys. the obama ministration could now decide to bring the case before a military appeals court rather than comply. a u.s. judge has denied a request by argentina to delay attainment -- repayment of $1.65 billion in debts to us hedge funds led by top republican donor paul singer's nml capital. last week, the with supreme court ruled in favor of the so-called fulcher funds that have brought up argentina's that at bargain rates after the country's financial crisis. 92% of argentina's creditors agreed to cut the value of their holdings following the country's default. the hedge funds refused to do so. on thursday, u.s. judge refused to extend a monday deadline for argentina to pay the hedge

funds, despite argentina's claim the payments could tank the economy. argentina's economy minister condemned the decision. is no doubt about the bias of the judge in favor of the vulture funds, norther to root intention, bringing the republic of argentina to default and running the 2005-2010 restructuring at was reached after lengthy negotiations in a consensus of 92.4%. >> in massachusetts, governor patrick has signed a measure to increase the minimum wage to $11 an hour by 2017, the highest of any state in the country. the measure raises the current eight dollars an hour minimum wage by one dollar each year. the wagepatrick called law great progress, but pressed for more action, saying it is still not a livable wage. and nbc has responded to a planned parenthood petition over

its handling of an ad for the film "obvious child" which mentioned the word abortion. more than 13,000 people signed up petition protesting reports nbc rejected the ad. in a statement, nbc said it has "no policy against so thing as including the word abortion, but acknowledged -- nbc said it would accept the digital ad as it was originally submitted. as of today, "obvious child" will be airing in nearly 200 theaters across the united states. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in chicago. and i am juan gonzalez in new york. >> on wednesday, new york city's council voted to create invisible id cards that will give the city's half a million undocumented immigrants a way to

prove their identity. also this week, you have reported on one of the democrats most closely watched races, congress member charles rangel of harlem declaring victory in a rematch of his primary race against senator adriano espaillat in 2012. charles rangel is 84 years old and has served in congress for 43 years. can you talk about both? >> the municipal id card, obviously, with congress still paralyzed over the issue of immigration reform because republicans in the house are refusing to pass a bill too much that was passed a year ago in the senate, many local governments are taking matters into their own hands as best they can in the city council under the new progressive leadership did pass this week and municipal id law. this allows between 500000 and 600,000 undocumented residents of new york city to be able to have some kind of identification

when confronted by police or other government agencies, and to be able to carry some of their day-to-day life activities without the constant threat of not having proper id it is a big step forward for the immigrant community in the city. as for the charles rangel race, this was, as you said, a rematch . back in 2012, rangel barely defeated adriano espaillat, a state senator, by just by about 1000 votes. it was a very bitterly fought campaign. there were a lot of charges of voter suppression in the latino community and many staff as an accounting of the votes. so not two years later, adriano ,spaillat challenged him again attempted from the left with the democratic party come accusing charles rangel of being in the grip of a lot of the banking interests in the city. and then again it was a close vote once again with just 1800 votes separating the two men

with a lot bigger voter for dissipation this time around -- participation this time around. rangel prevailed once again. the lion of harlem, even though his district is now largely a latino district, majority latino population, and he got most of his support -- the popular support from the black community while adriano espaillat clearly gothic support in the latino community and won a majority of the white vote, but rangel was able to pull away a significant share of the puerto rican vote and was thus able to barely eke out a victory and will return to commerce once again. >> we will continue to follow all of the stories. and now we move on to our main story today. >> we turn to indonesia, where polls show support is growing for former military strongman

who is now running for president. the u.s.-trained prabowo ofianto has been accused extensive human rights abuses that took place in the 1990's when he was head of the country special forces. he was dismissed from the army in 1998 following accusations he was complicit in the abduction and torture of activists during political unrest in jakarta that led to the ouster of long-time dictator suharto. >> earlier this month, during a debate between the two candidates, prabowo subianto was repeatedly asked about his role then as well as in similar abuses in east timor when it was part of indonesia. prabowo subianto has denied the accusations and insists he was doing his duty to protect the nation. but on thursday, he faced fresh accusations of criminal behavior after his former boss released details of the military council's findings that led to his discharge from the armed like 16 yearsng

ago. >> on thursday, prabowo subianto 's campaign threatened to arrest the american journalist allan nairn for revealing the former general's role in human rights abuses. he wrote an article quoting from a 2001 interview he conducted with prabowo subianto who said -- >> this coincides with outrage over the release of a music video made by prabowo subianto supporters and endorsed by him, showing them in nazi-like uniforms. the song called "indonesia bangkit" or "awakening indonesia" features musician in villagers to cuneiform, wearing badges similar's to those of ss commander heinrich himmler.

the campaign initially defended the video but has since called for its removal. prabowo subianto's rival in the race is joko widodo, the governor of the capital jakarta. the elections will be held on july 9. for more, we go to indonesia where journalist and activist allan nairn joins us by democracy now! video stream. allan nairn has reported from indonesia for years, previously exposing government killings of civilians. welcome back to democracy now! what is takinge place in indonesia right now and what has happened is a result of the article that you're just released on your blog? haseneral prabowo subianto been implicated in mass killings and was a close u.s. protége. he was the most intensively u.s. trained officer in indonesia. maybe on the version of assuming state tower -- power.

become [indiscernible] piece came out, there's been an up or in indonesian press -- uproar in the indonesian press. the army declared i am and operational target. one of the spokes persons for prabowo said i was an enemy of the nation. but these are kind of standard responses. oflier, juan read the quotes prabowo in his interviews with me. one additional thing he said when he was talking about the santa cruz massacre that you and i both survived, the full quote was, "you don't massacre in front of the press."

saying, it's ok to do it, just no one will know. in fact, in 1983, there was just such a massacre in a remote area around the village in the mountains of east timor. the original chartered truth commission and the report published testimony indicating prabowo was involved. prabowo did that after he had been brought to the u.s., brought to fort bragg and given the u.s. special forces course. after the massacre and after his forces were repeatedly over the years implicated in similar mask killings -- mass killings including and was poppel what were they masqueraded as international red cross and then went on to shoot down civilians, the u.s. kept bringing him back

for more training and he became what prabowo described to me as the americans fair-haired boy. llan, can you talk about how you initially interviewed prabowo and why he agreed to do the interview and under what conditions the initial interview was conducted? >> i went to him because i was investigating some killings that had recently occurred then. this was 2001. i was hoping at that moment prabowo was out of power, have lost the power struggle within the army -- i was hoping he might be willing to divulge some details about the recent murders i was looking into. i offered him off the record anonymity. i don't know exactly why prabowo said down with me. we were adversaries. i have publicly called for them to be tried and jailed for killing civilians. i had been involved in a

grassroots campaign to cut off u.s. military aid [indiscernible] i don't know his reasons, but it seemed to me he enjoyed sitting shop with aning adversary who is familiar with his work. i offered him off the record anonymity. but as it turned out, he did not disclose anything about the killing zone was looking into. but we ended up speaking for more than four hours. or nearly four hours. he made all sorts of political comments that at the time i thought were extraneous sent to is out of power. becominghat he is possibly the -- he is on the verge of becoming president, i legation toas my

put this information on the record so the indonesian people could consider it when making their decision. it was not a decision i made lightly. in off the record promise is serious, but i felt the harm of breaking that would be harmighed by the greater if i did not disclose the information. and there is more. i will soon be out some fairly extensive these is on prabowo's work with the united states. >> allan nairn, when we survived the massacre in 1991, over 271 .imorese were killed people of timor and occupied timor at the time. when the people that to vote for their freedom 1999, you got into east timor and ultimately were arrested by the indonesian military.

the fractured your skull in massacre. now in his report that has just come out, i want to read one of the messages posted on the official indonesian armed forces ortni twitter account. how real are these threats? why have you decided to come forward with this now? is prabowo still in charge in any way of the military of the tni? inno, he is not in charge any way. although, it seems the majority of the military and retired military are backing him in this election. threats like this are standard practice for the indonesian armed forces and those on the

outside they sponsor. a few years ago, the u.s.-trained special forces that prabowo used to command had no internal manual which listed as one of their methods were they described the tactic and technique of terror. the word "terror close quote -- extendingas been death threats to people, standard practice, anyone who speaks out against things like army killings often receive such threats. but of course, they're not going to do anything to me. but over the years, the indonesian people and the people in papua and timor who became operational targets of the army, many were tortured or

assassinated. becomese is, if prabowo president, will that increase? , the in west papua indonesian army is still using these type x. afew years ago they put out target list of activist in west papua including religious leaders and academics and local civic leaders and these are the people who were in danger. >> allan nairn, could you talk about the other candidate lined up against prabowo? were you surprised he has appeared to garner so much support? the impact onbeen indonesia, which is a largely muslim country, of the muslim extremist movements around the world? well, this is a two-person

race, prabowo versus joko widodo , the governor of jakarta. joko widodo made a name for himself as governor because he actually went out and met the poor. he would go down to the street and speak to people. he became an overnight political sensation. joko widodo is surrounded by killers. thewas involved in leading 1999 massacres and timor that amy mentioned. the other hand men that were involved or behind the assassination of the great human rights activist mumia. they were among the establishment figures supporting joko widodo. although, he himself, seems to be cut from a different cloth. on the one hand you have joko widodo who is backed by killers, and on the other hand you have prabowo who is a killer himself.

as to why his support is rising, first, for years [indiscernible] been to brew.y the public has been deprived of information for decades. second, money. there is massive many behind prabowo. the tv stations are owned by oligarchs who directly control a lyrical content. even more directly than the owners control the political content in the u.s.. and then in his campaign, prabowo, who is a strong speaker, has presented himself as two things. one, the champion of the poor and two, the man who will fight america. the man who will not bow down to america. and those are two very popular positions in indonesia for very good reasons. because indonesia has been abused and exploited by america for decades, d everyone here

knows that. and, of course, the poor in it happensave -- everywhere around the world and especially intense in indonesia. is the problem is, prabowo exactly the person who will not act on those claims. he is himself or has himself been the main u.s. agent over indonesianithin the armed forces. he has been washington's man. he told me he was washington's fair-haired boy. he is not the person who will fight the u.s.. he is the u.s.'s man. secondly, in terms of rich and poor, prabowo's campaign is financed by his brother who is a billionaire who is one of the richest men in indonesia who is

tied into the very multinational corporations that prabowo riley says are exploiting the country. prabowo himself was in business with the range of multinationals. , theys forced it papua were taking payoffs from the american mining giant which laid waste to the environment in west papua and helped deplete indonesia of its resources. in response to my article, the prabowo campaign came back with a counterattack and that i was part of the conspiracy by the united states government and u.s. business. so just yesterday i put out a response to them saying, well, for 40 years i have been an adversary for the u.s. state and u.s. corporations, but if general prabowo wants to say that, i have a couple of challenges to him. first, i challenge prabowo to

join with me and calling for all the living u.s. presidents put on trial and jailed for the role and crimes against humanity and mass killing of civilians in places ranging from central america to in recent years, places like iraq and afghanistan. mehallenged prabowo to join in calling for that. secondly, i challenged him for expelled. be those challenges have gotten huge coverage in the indonesian press. as far as i know, he hasn't responded. in anally, as we wrap up, interview with "the wall street journal" ms. ambassador to indonesia robert blake said indonesia should look into prabowo's complicity in human rights abuses in the 1990's when he was the general heading the country special forces. ambassador blake said --

i'm just wondering, your response to this given the u.s. role in indonesia and the significance of the u.s. ambassador wing and right now --weighing in right now? >> if prabowo wins, it will be embarrassing for the u.s. his record will get scrutiny and see people will start to see the blood on u.s. hands because the u.s. was prabowo's sponsor. it is a little embarrassing for the u.s.. of course, if prabowo wins, it will be like old times and they will welcome him with open arms. at the moment, there is some embarrassment. whenever u.s. officials call for investigations into murders by the people who they were arming, training, financing, and backing politically, it staggers the

imagination. of course, prabowo should be put on trial and jailed for his role in the killings of civilians. but if that is done, then u.s. officials who backed him must .lso be put on trial and jailed for the u.s. to be talking otherwise, is hypocrisy. >> finally, allan, prabowo forces have said the army says they are going to capture you if you return to indonesia. you responded, you're in indonesia. how are you going to protect yourself? >> i don't think they will do anything. but, yeah, i stated yesterday -- i announced, i'm here, they can capture me if they want. i also said to general prabowo, whose people have reacted very angrily against my article, denying making all sorts of

outrageous statements, that [indiscernible] want student at, he should face in a court of law. you should bring charges against me under the indonesia criminal libel law and we can face off in court. in court, under oath, i can talk about prabowo's role in murdering citizens and u.s. role in backing prabowo. so i welcome the general taking up that challenge, but he hasn't done so yet. >> allan nairn, please, be safe. we will have a link to your article at allannairn.org. as we move into independence day, there's a new book out that challenges the mainstream narrative about the founding of the united states of america. we will speak with historian gerald horne here in chicago.

stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. chicago withan in our next guest. one gonzalez is in new york. >> next week in the united states celebrates the fourth of july. the day the american colonies declared her independence from

england in 1776. while many americans will hang flags, participate in parades and watch fireworks, independence day is not a cause for celebration for all. yetnative americans, it is another bitter reminder of colonialism which brought fatal diseases, cultural hegemony, and full out genocide. neither did the new republic's promise of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness extend african-americans. as our next guest notes, the white colonists who declared their freedom from the crown did not share their newly founded liberation with the millions of africans they had captured and forced into slavery. arguesessor gerald horne the so-called revolutionary war was actually a counterrevolution in part, not a progressive step forward for humanity, but a conservative effort by american colonialists to protect their system of slavery. for more, professor gerald horne joins us here in our chicago

studio. he is the author of two new books, "the counter-revolution of 1776: slave resistance and the origins of the united states of america." and "race to revolution: the u.s. and cuba during slavery and jim crow." he teaches history and african american studies at the university of houston. welcome to democracy now! it is great to have you with us. as we move into this independence day we, what should we understand about the founding of the united states? >> we should understand that july 4, 1776 in many ways represents a counterrevolution, that is to say, that what helped to prompt july 4, 1776 was a perception among european settlers of the mainland that london was moving rampantly toward abolition. this perception was prompted by somerset's case, a case decided in london in june 1772 which seemed to suggest that

abolition, which not only was owing to be ratified in london itself, was going to cross the atlantic and basically sweep the mainland, thereby jeopardizing numerous fortunes not only based upon slavery, but the slave trade. that is the short answer. the longer answer would involve going back to another revolution, that is to say the so-called glorious revolution in england in 1688 which involved a step back from the monarch, the king, and a step forward for the rising merchant class. this led to a deregulation of , thereican slave trade to for have been in control of the slave trade but with the rising power of the merchant class, this slave trade was deregulated bidding to what i call free trade and africans. that is to say, merchants then descended upon the african handcuffing every african insight with the energy of demented and crazed beast's,

dragging them across the atlantic, particularly to the caribbean and the north american mainland. this was prompted by the fact the profits with the slave trade were permitting this just tremendous -- tremendous. there are those even today who will sell the first or and for such a profit. this on the one hand held to boost the productive forces both in the caribbean and on the mainland but that led to numerous slave results, not the least in the caribbean but also on the mainland, which help to give the mainlanders second thought about london's steps toward abolition. >> gerald horne, one of the things that struck me in your book is not only your main thesis that this was in large part a counterrevolution, the united states war of independence, but you also link closely what was going on in the caribbean colonies of england as well as in the united states. not only in terms of among the

slaves in both areas, but also among the white population, in fact, you indicate quite a few of those who ended up here in the united states fostering the american revolution had actually been refugees from the battles between whites and slaves in the caribbean. could you expound on that? >> it is well known up until the middle part of the 18th century, london felt the caribbean were in some was more valuable than the mainland colonies. the problem was, in the caribbean colonies, the africans outnumbered the european settlers, sometimes at a rate of 20 to one, which facilitated slave revolts. there were major slave revolts in 1709 and 1736. the africans who escaped london's tourist district had challenged the crown quite sternly. this led to many european

settlers in the group in making the great trek to the mainland, being chased out of the caribbean by enraged africans. for example, i did research for this book in newport, rhode island and the main library there to this very day is named fled abraham redwood, who after the 1736 slave revolt because many of his "africans" were involved in the slave revolt. .e fled he helped to basically establish that city on the atlantic coast. there is a close connection between what was transpiring in the caribbean and what was taking place in the mainland. historians need to recognize that even though these colonies were not necessarily a unitarian project, they were close and intimate connections.

>> so why this great disparity between how people in the united states talk about the creation of the united states, if you will, not talking about indigenous people, native american people, and this story that you have researched? >> it is fair to say that the united states to provide a sanctuary for europeans. indeed, i think part of the "genius" of the was project, if there was such a genius, was the fact that the founders in the united states basically called on a formal truce, formal cease-fire with regard to the religious warfare that have been happening for many years, that is to say protestant london versus affleck madrid and catholic france. what the settlers on the north american mainland did was call a formal truce with regard to

religious conflict but then open a new front with regard to race, that is to say, europeans were sick -- versus non-europeans. the brought the base for seller project. that is to say they could drop those who were white red roots from the atlantic to the ural mountains and even the arab world if you look at ralph nader and marlo thomas who are considered to be "white." this expanded the population vote for the seller project. because many rights were then accorded to these newly minted whites, it obviously helped to ensure that many of them would be to hold and to the country that emerged as the united states of america. whereas those who were not defined as white got the short end of the stick. >> gerald horne, during the american revolution, what was

the perception or the attitude of the african slaves in the u.s. to that conflict? you talked about during the colonial times, many slaves preferred to fully to the spanish college -- to flee to the spanish colonies or french colonies rather than to stay in the american colonies of england. >> you are correct. the fact of the matter is, spain had been arming africans since the 1500's. because spain was arming africans and then unleashing them on mainland colonies, particularly south carolina, this put competitive pressure on london to act in a similar fashion. the problem there was, the mainland settlers embarked on a project in a model of development that was inconsistent with arming africans and indeed, their slavingwas involved in every african inside. this deepens the schism between the colonies and the metropolis for that is to say london, thereby, helping to ferment a

revolt. it is well-known that many africans followed alongside the red coats then fought with the settlers. this is understandable because if you think about it for more than a nanosecond, it makes little sense for slaves to fight alongside slave masters so that slave masters could then deepen the persecution of the enslaved, indeed, happened after 1776, bring more africans to the mainland from a more to cuba, more africans to brazil for their profit. >> we're talking to historian gerald horne, author of two new books. we're talking about, "the counter-revolution of 1776: slave resistance and the origins of the united states of america." his latest book just out is called, "race to revolution: the u.s. and cuba during slavery and jim crow."

when we come back, we will talk about the second book, about cuba. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in chicago with juan gonzalez in new york. i want to turn to president obama's remarks at the white house's fourth of july celebration last year. this is how president obama

described what happened in 1776. >> on july 4, 1776, a small band of patriots declared that we were a peaceful, created equal, free to think and worship and live as we please. but our destiny would not be determined for us, would be determined by us. it was bold and it was brave and was unprecedented. it was unthinkable. at that time in human history, it was kings and princes and emperors who made decisions. but those patriots knew there was a better way of doing things, that freedom was possible and that to achieve their freedoms, they would be willing to lay down their lives. their fortunes. their honor. and so they fought a revolution. if you would have bet on their sons, but for the first time in

many times to come, america proved the doubters wrong. later, thisyears improbable experiment in democracy, the united states of america, stands as the greatest nation on earth. [applause] 06/27/14 06/27/14 >> that was president obama talking about the meeting of july 4. gerald horne, your book is, "the counter-revolution of 1776: slave resistance and the origins of the united states of america." it is is a direct rebuttal of this as you called creation myth. can you talk about it? >> with all due respect to president obama, i think he his remarks you just cited, the consensus view. that is to say, on the one hand, there is little of doubt that 78 76 regarded a step forward with regard to the triumph of monarchy. the problem was, it went on to establish what i refer to as the first apartheid state. the rights mr.

obama refers to were accorded to only those who were defined as white. to that degree, i argue in the book that 1776 in many ways was analogous to unilateral declaration of independence in the country then known as southern rhodesia. udi was in many ways an attempt to forestall decolonization. attemptmany ways was an to forestall the abolition of slavery. that attempt succeeded until the experiment crashed and burned in 1861 with the u.s. civil war. the bloodiest conflict to this point the u.s. has ever been involved in. >> gerald horne, so how does this story, this what you call counterrevolution, fit in with your latest book, "race to revolution: the u.s. and cuba during slavery and jim crow." >> is a certain consistency between the two books. keep in mind, in 1760 two,

britain temporarily seized cuba from spain. in one of the regulations that britain imposed outraged the settlers, as i argue in both books. what happened was, britain's sought to regulate the slave trade and the settlers on the north american mainland wanted deregulation of the slave trade, thereby bringing in more africans. what happens is that that was one of the points of contention that leads to a revolt against british rule in 1776. i go on a new cuba book to talk about how one of the many reasons why you have so many people in cuba was because of the manic energy of your slave trade, slave dealers, particularly going into the basin and dragging africans across the atlantic. i argue in the previous book, likewise, that one of the many reasons why you have so many black people in brazil, more than any other place outside nigeria, is once again, because of the manic energy of your

slave traders and slave dealers who go into angola and drag africans across the atlantic to brazil. it seems to me it is very difficult to reconcile the creation myth of this move for humanity when after 1776 and the foundation of the united states of america, the u.s. oust britain from control of the african slave trade and britain becomes the cop on the beat trying to detain and attorney u.s. slave traders and slave dealers. it seems to me, if this was a step forward for humanity, it was not a step forward for africans. in the last time i looked, comprise a large segment of humanity. >> explain the involvement of american companies in the slave trade in brazil and cuba. that book and also your counterrevolution of 1776 makes the same point that slavery was not just an issue of interest in the south, to the southern

plantation owners, but that in the north thanking, insurance, merchants, shipping were all involved in the slave trade as well. >> as you well know, new york city is the citadel of the african slave trade, even after the formal abolition of u.s. role in the african slave trade in 18098. rhode island was also a center for the african slave trade, ditto for massachusetts. part of the unity between north and south was that it was in the north that the financing for the african slave trade to place and it was in the south where you had the africans deposited. that helps to undermine to a degree the very easy notion that the north was abolitionists and the south was proslavery. >> gerald horne, what most surprised you in your research around cuba, u.s. slavery, and jim crow? >> what most surprised me with

regard to both of these product just projects was the rebelliousness of the africans involved. it was well known the africans in the caribbean were very much involved in various extermination plots, liquidation plots seeking to abolish through force of arms and violence institution of slavery. unfortunately, i think historians on the north american mainland have tended to downplay this. i think it is a disservice to the descendents of the population of the mainland and slave africans. that is to say, because it has been downplayed, it leads many african-americans today to either, a, think their ancestors were chumps front that is to say that they fought alongside slave owners to bring more freedom to slave owners and more persecutions of themselves, or, b, the deciphers code that is to

say, they stood on the sidelines as their fate was being determined. i think both of these books seek to disprove those very unfortunate notions. so as we move into the independence day weekend next weekend, what do you say to people in the united states? proved that you can be very critical of what you deem to be revolutionary processes. you have a number of intellectuals and scholars that make a good living by critiquing the cuban revolution of 1959, critiquing the russian revolution of 19 17, by critiquing the french revolution of the 18th century, but yet you get the impression that what happened in 1776 was all upside, which is rather far-fetched even what i have just laid out before you in terms of how the enslaved african population had their situations were sent, not to mention the subsequent liquidation of independent

native american policies as a result of 1776. i think we need a more balanced presentation of the foundation of the united states of america, and i think there's no sooner place to begin than next week, july 4, 2014. >> gerald horne, thank you very much for being with us, historian, author of "the counter-revolution of 1776: slave resistance and the origins of the united states of america." , "race to cop revolution: the u.s. and cuba during slavery and jim crow." is a professor at the university of houston. that does it for our broadcast. happy birthday to john randolph. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]