12/01/14 12/01/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica this is democracy now. >> the city manager has accepted officer wilson's resignation. as of yesterday, officer wilson is no longer an employee with the city of ferguson. there is no severance agreement with officer wilson and the city of ferguson. the city of ferguson will not be making a severance payment to officer wilson. as darren wilson resigns from the ferguson police force, protests continue across the country from shopping malls to football stadiums over a grand

jury's decision not to indict wilson for shooting dead michael brown. >> we're interrupting like friday commerce specifically to send a very important message, which is that black lives matter. >> we will speak to youth activists from oakland and new york as well as professor michael eric dyson. he asks, "where do we go after ferguson?" then we go to egypt where a court has dropped its case against former president hosni mubarak over the killing of protesters in the 2011 uprising that ended his 30-year rule. all that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. ferguson police officer darren wilson has resigned days after a grand jury elected not to indict him for the killing of unarmed black teenager michael brown. ferguson mayor james knowles said wilson will leave the police force with no severance.

>> the city manager has accepted officer wilson's resignation. as of yesterday, officer wilson is no longer an employee with the city of ferguson. there is no severance agreement with officer wilson and the city of ferguson. the city of ferguson will not be making a severance payment to officer wilson. >> wilson's resignation comes amidst continued protests in ferguson and around the country over the grand jury decision. over the past week there have been demonstrations in more than cities, on public roadways, in 160 shopping malls, and government buildings. on saturday, protesters kicked off a 120 mile, 7-day march dubbed the "journey for justice" from ferguson to jefferson city, the capital of missouri. black friday was also a day of action as activists staged protests at shopping centers across the country. in st. louis, two shopping malls shut down after protesters staged a mass die-in. in seattle police arrested five , people after protesters marched in two shopping malls. at the pacific place mall

activists chained shut two doors. at the westlake centers a mass die was staged. in new york seven people were arrested after a black friday action outside macy's flagship store. a day earlier seven others were arrested for trying to disrupt the macy's thanksgiving day parade. on sunday, demonstrators temporarily shut down part of the busy interstate 395 highway that runs through washington, d.c. in oakland demonstrators briefly shut down a bart train station by chaining themselves to a train. members of the national football league's st. louis rams also took part in an act of protest. ahead of sunday's football game, a group of players entered the stadium with their hands raised overhead in the "hands up, don't shoot" pose in a show of solidarity with michael brown. the st. louis police officers association has complained to the nfl, calling for the players to be disciplined. we'll have more on the ferguson protests after headlines. the egyptian government says it won't pursue further legal action against former president hosni mubarak following a court

decision to drop all remaining charges against him. on saturday, mubarak was cleared of ordering the killing of hundreds of protests during the uprising against his regime almost four years ago. the decision, which came on a technicality, means he will walk free after finishing a prison term on corruption charges, possibly within a few months. in a statement, president abdel fattah el-sisi said egypt must now "look to the future" and "cannot ever go back." several thousand protesters gathered in cairo's tahrir square on saturday to protest the verdict, leading to a crackdown by state forces. at least two people were killed. we'll have more from egypt later in the broadcast. clashes have broken out in hong kong after pro-democracy protesters escalated their campaign for free elections. thousands of demonstrators surrounded government buildings on sunday, forcing their temporary closure. police responded with pepper spray and raids on the massive street encampment where thousands have stayed for weeks to seek an open vote for the

city leader. france has set a two-year deadline to recognize palestinian statehood unless a negotiated solution is reached. the french initiative calls for recognizing the state of palestine unless israel agrees to allow palestinian statehood through negotiations. the french member of parliament who drafted the measure, elisabeth guigou, said the aim is to advance the two-state solution that israel claims to support. to the point of thinking resolution would make these in the middle east, but i would hope it will contribute to a movement for peace and -- that to bee can just continue with the status quo, which is very dangerous. we want to help, also, those [indiscernible]

a two-statect for solution. that is what we want to do as well. >> the french parliament is set to hold a formal vote on tuesday. britain, spain, and sweden have advanced similar measures over the past two months. >> the militant group boko haram is carried out several attacks in nigeria. earlier today, a 20 blast was reported in the area were dozens were killed in a market bombing last week. this follows an attack that killed at least 120 people friday at a mosque in the northern city. scores were reportedly killed saturday when boko haram fighters raided the town. the annual united nations climate summit opens today in lima, peru. diplomats from around the world are hoping to reach a draft agreement on a measure that would limit the greenhouse gas emissions that cause global warming. it would then be finalized at talks in paris, france next year. on the eve of the summit, activists from the group greenpeace projected a message onto the historic machu picchu site calling for solar energy.

-- renewable energy. >> calling on world leaders to transfer the energy system away from coal and oil towards 100% renewable energy future by midcentury. >> tune in to democracy now! when we broadcast from the u.n. climate summit in lima, peru all next week. the united nations committee against torture has issued a report criticizing a wide range of u.s. practices. the panel's "concluding observations" follow a series of hearings in geneva last month. on criminal justice, the report calls for several reforms including accountability for police brutality and for the targeting of people of color. on torture and imprisonment, the report criticizes the white house's refusal to prosecute bush administration officials for torture and to provide redress to their victims. it also faults the u.s. for the indefinite imprisonment of foreign nationals at guantanamo bay and calls for an end to force-feedings. the u.n. panel also calls on the

obama administration to release the senate report on cia torture "in the most complete and comprehensible form possible." this comes as senate democrats have accused the white house of trying to censor key portions. the senate intelligence committee and administration officials have been in talks for months on releasing a summary of the 6,000-page report, which details the torture of foreign prisoners under the administration of george w. bush. according to "the new york times," senate democrats say the white house has sided with the cia in "trying to thwart negotiations over the report's release." in deference to cia wishes, the white house "has blocked democrats from informing the public as to how much torture went on in the previous administration, and how poorly it worked." the administration also wants to hide the pseudonyms of the cia officers involved in torture, including some who received promotions. police in austin, texas have killed a man who opened fire on major downtown buildings. the gunman, 49-year-old man,

fired over 100 rounds at the mexican consulate, the federal courthouse, and the austin police department headquarters before he was killed. police say the main also tried to set the mexican consulate on fire. former baltimore ravens player ray rice has won an appeal of his indefinite suspension from the national football league. rice was barred in september following the emergence of a video showing him punching his then-fiancée, now wife, in a casino elevator. the nfl has repeatedly said it did not see the video until it was released publicly and that rice had been misleading about the attack when it initially suspended him for just two games. but u.s. district judge barbara jones ruled that rice did not lie or mislead the league. the decision has raised new questions about nfl commissioner roger goodell's handling of the case. rice is now free to sign with any team. a missing football player at ohio state university has been founded dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. kosta karageorge had been

missing since wednesday. he had a history of concussions as a football player and wrestler and sent his mother a text message shortly before his disappearance, apologizing for being "an embarrassment" as a result of the head injuries. and walmart workers have held black friday protests against the retail giant for third straight year. "monstrators with the group walmart" staged protests outside walmarts thursday and friday in a call for a $15 or wait and stable full-time work hours. hundreds of people took part in a protest in washington, d.c. >> we're here to let people know it is not treating its workforce right, does not pay us enough to live on, does not give us the respect and dignity deserved or enough hours to live on to get decent paycheck. >> your here to demand that

walmart, walmart, greedy walmart share its resources with workers , respect workers like they should be respected. >> and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. protests are continuing in ferguson missouri and across the , country over a grand jury's decision not to indict police officer darren wilson for killing unarmed black teenager michael brown. wilson resigned from the ferguson police department on saturday. over the past week there have , been demonstrations in more than cities, on public roadways, 150 in shopping malls, and government buildings. on saturday, protesters kicked off a 120 mile, 7-day march entitled "journey for justice" from ferguson to jefferson city, the capital of missouri. this is naacp president cornell william brooks. >> it is a matter of turning anger into action. bringing about justice. that is what we're seeking to

do. so we are marching from ferguson to jefferson city, mike brown's hometown, to the hometown of the governor. this is a nonviolent march, a peaceful march, and we're looking to enlist and engage people of goodwill all across missouri, all across this country. >> black friday was also a day of action as activists staged protests in shopping malls across the country. in st. louis, two shopping malls shut down after protesters staged a mass die-in. in seattle, police arrested five people after protesters marched in two shopping malls. activist chained shut to doors at one moment staged a diane at another. in new york city seven people , were arrested after a black friday action outside macy's flagship store. a day earlier seven others were arrested for trying to disrupt the macy's thanksgiving day parade. sergio uzurin took part in the macy's black friday protest. >> voicing your opinion is not enough. you have to disrupt business as

usual for this to happen. that is the only thing that has ever made change. it is the real weight democracy functions. so we are here on the busiest shopping day of the year to let people or remind people that lives matter before profits. >> in oakland demonstrators briefly shut down a bart train station by chaining themselves to a train. 14 people were arrested. mollie costello is director of the alan blueford center for justice. we're interrupting commerce to say black lives matter. we want to send this message in the wake of the in the decision not to indict with the ferguson verdict, not and i darren wilson, the cop who killed mike brown. we're sending the message that his life matters come on black lives matter, and is not up to the cops to decidedly. >> on sunday, demonstrators temporarily shut down part of the busy interstate 395 highway

that runs through washington, d.c. members of the st. louis rams also took part in an act of protest. ahead of sunday's football game, a group of players entered the stadium with their hands raised overhead in the "hands up, dont shoot" pose in a show of solidarity with michael brown. protests are expected to continue today. the group ferguson action has called a nationwide protest walkout at schools and places of business at noon central time. we are joined now by two guests were out in the streets this weekend. alicia garza is co-creator of "black lives matter" and one of the 14 people arrested for shutting down the bart transportation system on black friday. she is also the special projects director at the national domestic workers alliance. dante barry is an organizer at center for media justice & million hoodies. he participated in last weeks actions in nyc to shut-down the fdr and lincoln tunnel as well as black friday protests in herald square.

we welcome you both to democracy now! talk about what happened on black friday. ,> a group of organizations some students from columbia university and a fraternity, put together a protest in response to black friday called blackout black friday. we're targeting macy's, the largest shopping center in new york city and also has a history of racial profiling around black people. we were targeting and shut down square, times square, had about 1500 folks that turned out for this one action at 1:00 a.m. about seven arrests. it was amazing to see so many people come out and really turned things up. >> alicia garza, what were you doing in oakland? oaklandut down the west

bart station. our intention was to shut it down for 4.5 hours, which is both the amount of time that mike brown's body lay on the street after he was killed by officer darren wilson and also it represented for hours, 20 minutes, and 28 minutes represents how every 28 hours, a black person in this country is murdered for security officers, police officers, or vigilantes. >> how do you go forward from here? what are the plans of protest organizers like you, alicia garza? >> our plan is to continue to elevate the message that black lives matter and that all black lives matter. it is really important to us that folks understand this is a national movement, that is what is -- what is happening in ferguson is happening in communities all over the country, and the sleeping giant has been awoken. so folks who have been in during police violence and police terror in state sanctioned violence for decades now

standing up to say, enough is enough, not one more darren wilson, not one more mike brown. i think what we can expect to see if continued, and escalated protests around the country until justice is served. >> you shut down the bart system for four hours. it is well known to people around the country because of the killing a few years ago, the killing of oscar grant. it was at fruitvale, the bart station. how did you shutdown the station in which one did you shut down? >> we shut down the west oakland bart station in a few ways. one way was we had about 200 people outside of the bart station who held a healing ceremony. inside, with a group of folks, including myself, who chained ourselves to the trying to make sure that it could not move. we know that black friday is one

of the largest days of commerce. we also know that black folks spend a lot of money. we wanted to disrupt the system, and we wanted to make sure there was no more business as usual until mike brown's family and families like john crawford and jordan davises and nation mcbride's no longer have to look at empty seat at the table. what you're calling for now and what groups here in the greater new york area and how much are coordinating with groups, for example, like alicia's in california? >> we are definitely cordoning with the group -- there are groups coordinating and response model to the situation in ferguson with the darren wilson case, but also the case around air gardner, which is about to release a grand jury decision very shortly. >> and the eric garner case, explain what happened this summer on staten island. >> i think this goes back to the

point come every 28 hours we're seeing a black person being killed and here in new york, we saw the murder of eric garner, a legalman who was given a -- illegal chokehold by number of police officers. one, in particular, the person up for potential indictment. terms ofsmanaged in how they responded and also of just actually this whole idea of broken policing, which is a whole other issue. it is a cousin of stop and frisk. thing arrested for having "loose cigarettes." down, he was taken 43-year-old father of six, i think. taken down in this chokehold as he said, "i can't breathe" something like 11 times. the only reason we know this is because a young man was put on his cell phone, video, and

started to film. and once the corner said, homicide, the young man who filmed this was arrested, as was his wife. the only arrest in this case. clocks right, the only arrest. and it opens up a lot of questions. when you're looking at surveillance of folks, the tactic of how the use communication and technology as a platform to really document these instances, but still, it is being used against us and harming us. what's how to the police respond here? you have the situation, while we were awaiting the verdict in ferguson, of yet another young african-american man being killed in a housing project in new york by police. police officer bratton immediately announcing the man was completely innocent and the officer had accidentally fired

in the stairwell of the housing project. >> i think, well, it is interesting for last week with the protests, the police officers had been eerily calm. because of the amount of tension that is happening across the country, right? the cultural intervention of civil disobedience provides in terms of altering the narrative around the police versus the community. it is really about community empowerment. i think when we look at some of the responses by nypd, it has been very, very calm in relationship to other protest happening across the country. >> alicia garza, the response of the police in the bay area and what you know a protests throughout the rest of the country? >> what i know is for the last 108 or so days, police have been faced with escalating protests

and police have acted differently in different places. i know for us in oakland, we were greeted by riot cops and the was a group of 14 of us. i know for folks in ferguson, they're constantly being greeted by riot cops come offer continuing to exercise their right to protest. i think what we're seeing is a real disproportionate use of policing, particularly in moments where there is demonstrations against the police. i think the other thing that we can also just count on is that we know and the police know that eyes are watching them all of the country, so that maybe one reason why some responses are calmer than others. but we also have to take into account the responses that don't make it onto the national news. i know when folks were protesting in oakland, there was tear gas that was launched, we sound cannons on the

streets. we have not seen that since the oscar grant protest in 2009. i think what we're seeing is a real use of military weapons, a real show of force by the police department. for us in particular, we were treated well. again, this was during the daytime, with hundreds and hundreds of observers. but we do need to keep in mind what happens when the tv cameras aren't rolling and folks are demonstrating in the streets. there are a lot of instances that we're hearing about of police brutality, like what happened in chattanooga, tennessee, when a few folks were protesting around the national day of action against police brutality were brutalized by police in chattanooga. >> president obama today at the white house holding meetings. they will be evaluating the program where they give military equipment to towns and cities, police departments.

and also talking about the issue of distrust between law enforcement and communities of color. what are your thoughts about this and overall, president obama's response as well as eric holder going around the country to deal with this issue? >> first, i will say the president's response has been weak up to this point. i think, as i mentioned before, the cultural intervention that civil disobedience in the active resistance is providing is building momentum all across this country. i think the president in the white house are hearing and seeing that momentum. folks that are coming from ferguson, folks all across this country, young civil rights aren't able to meet with him to discuss those challenges, but i think when we look at the reason why this is happening under his watch, i think it just goes back to this idea that we are not post-racial, and there is the false assumption that we are post-racial, even with a black

president. but this is happening on his watch, so it is more for screwed around the issue of the seed of the presidency in general. >> alicia garza, your last comment? the significance of the president, the federal government, at time when questions are being raised about whether there would be federal civil rights charges brought officer.he many saying it is unlikely. >> i think it is unlikely. unfortunately, i think we need to see our president and our attorney general take aggressive action to make sure that lives are protected in communities like ferguson and oakland. we are seen a stunning lack of response by our federal government by way of intervention in the tragedies that are happening across the country. of course, we would love to see president obama and u.s. attorney general eric holder step up even more. i know folks are calling for national plan of action to be of

limited, and we support that demand 100%. we want to see more aggressive intervention from our president from our u.s. attorney general, not in the form of tanks and riot gear, but legislation and policy that addresses systemic inequities that are based on race in our country. we can no longer ignore that racism permeates every system within our society. until we address those issues, protests and uprisings will continue around the country. so we do call on president obama and eric holder not just a hold closed-door meetings, but in fact to continue to empower the young leaders that are showing us all how it is that we change society one heart and one mind at a time. >> alicia garza, thank you for being with us from oakland. yorkante barry here in new , organizer at center for media justice. when we come back, we will be joined by professor michael eric dyson who asks, "where do we go

after ferguson?" stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president obama is planning a day of meetings today at the white house related to the fallout from ferguson. you will first meet with his cabinet to discuss the results of a review of federal programs that provide military style equipment to state and local forstmann agencies. obama has invited juncker civil rights readers for meeting today to discuss what one official describes "the broader challenges we still face as a nation including the mistrust between law enforcement and communities of color." also today, attorney general atlantader is headed to to speak at the ebenezer baptist church were martin luther king jr. once preached. his visit is part of the white --se tragedy till strengthen

strategy to strengthen relationships. we go now to washington, d.c. were we're joined by michael eric dyson, university professor of sociology at georgetown university. his piece for the new york times this weekend was titled, "where do we go after ferguson?" he is author of a forthcoming book on president obama and race. professor michael eric dyson, welcome back to democracy now! what was your response to the verdict? i call it a verdict, it was actually a grand jury decision last week. it is seemed like a verdict. it seems you had a grand jury that actually conducted a trial for one side of the case. the other side, mike brown's, dead. cases of decry went flagrant violations occur in other countries. when we think due process is nontechnology. we are outraged and we think people don't have access to evidence and able to defend themselves or at least people

who are concerned about the case defend a particular point of view. we had a full on trial, except we did not have anybody defending mike brown or his memory or his point of view. we had no testimony that was put forth by a defense lawyer that might have repudiated several of the things that officer wilson said. and then we had a prosecutor who was acting as a defense attorney for officer wilson. and there is a sad, tragically debility about what happened because robert mcculloch, the prosecutor, has never brought a case against a police person who has been accused of killing a black person there in the area. when you put all of that stuff together, it was a toxic brew. it was predictably something that would end in an unsatisfying verdict because it was a trial. and i think this underscores the inability of people of color to

get our viewpoints across. it is not simply a matter of mistrust or distrust. when somebody is abusing a child, you don't say, let's develop trust between a parent and a child. ,ou remove the abusive parent give them some parenting skills and lessons, or the very least, prevent them from imposing further abuse on that child. so i think the very metaphor that regulates and governs the kinds of meetings between the white house -- which are critical and necessary -- and police departments and citizens, surely, must involve developing trust, but trust only after the abuser has been removed. >> you mention the word "child." that is exactly how darren wilson described how he felt, he felt like a five-year-old child dealing with -- i think you put it, hulk hogan. can you talk about the trove of

papers that the prosecution released and that description that darren wilson gave of dealing with mike brown? >> that is a net one point underscore. 6'4", 290 pounds. foot six,lson is six 290 pounds. your hurley a child against a hogan. yet this big black man, 18 years old, this big black man who was rising up in the collective imagination of america and an officer wilson site as some kind of demonic force. he literally use the word demon. it looked like a demon coming at me. he is reduced him to a thing. he has made him an animal or less. he has made him a figment of not only his imagination, but the collective imagination of america that has been fearful of

the blackmail threats. when you put all that stuff together from pop culture, from the 20d early part of century there were completely and thoroughly racist, then you have a tremendously difficult problem on your hands. and that is to say, how do black people protect themselves not to consent to the bullets of a police officer, but the metaphors come the stereotypes that operate when a police officer's desk in a police officer's imagination that are equally lethal because they lead to trigger-happy cops or at least trigger -- here trigger decisions where cops and up believing they must use lethal force to conduct -- protect against a threat or resort to form of thenl lethal using mace or tasting are calling for help and the like.

and we think about all of this, this is the dehumanization of african-american people. this is the ferry to recognize our fundamental rights to exist in the state. this is using state authority to legally execute black people on the streets of america. exclusiveto go to the interview with abc news george stephanopoulos last week that officer darren wilson gave breaking his silence about the shooting of michael brown. >> is anything you could have done differently that would have prevented the killing from taking place? >> no. >> nothing? >> no. >> and you are absolutely convinced when you look to your heart and mind that if michael brown were white, this would have gone down exactly the same way? >> yes. >> no question? >> the question. >> stephanopoulos also asked wilson whether the killing of michael brown would always haunt him. >> i don't think it's haunting. it will always be something that happened. >> you have a very clean conscience. the reason i have a clean

conscience, i know i did my job right. >> professor michael eric dyson, your response? >> first of all, even in of war or women of war who feel their executing the julie respond -- sworn responsible deuce have a sense of shame or guilt or at least some kind of disturbing emotions that make them regretful of having to do with a have to do. this man has a clear conscience because he is conscience-less when it comes to executing his responsibilities and the face of lack humanity, refusing to acknowledge that there were alternatives available to him. and then feeling a kind of dispassion, a clinical distance from the event as if it was somebody else doing it. the reason he is not bothered by it is because i think this man in a cultureed an that are taught that black lives

don't matter. there's a documentary series that did one of their documentaries on i think a football team from ferguson. one of the young man who was on that team was driving in a car to his parents were driving behind him, on the way home, the unmanned was pulled over by a cop. since the father was in the car behind him, he gets out of the car, goes to the car to see what is going on. they say this policeman treated disrespect,ofound was extremely aggressive, hostile, and nasty, was attempting, i think, to arrest the father but ultimately, did not do so. he was an officer darren wilson. we know this man, used to being 6'4", bigger than most of his "competition" most of the people he deals with, and when he met his match, so to speak, physically, to speak physically, let's be real. what may have happened is the same thing that might have happened with trayvon martin and george zimmerman is that a white person, in this case, even worse

because he is a duly sworn officer of the state, attempting to menace and intimidate an african-american youth and may have gotten more than he bargained for were bitten off more than he could shoe, and as a result, withdrawals his gun from its holster or wherever it was planted and then shot this boy mercilessly. even on the streets, despite what he testified to, there are so many other witnesses that suggested mike brown's hands were up. he is asking his friend, who heard him come asking the policeman, why are you shooting me and i don't have a weapon? the reality is, when we piece together the evidence, darren wilson has an extremely dangerous mindset. his resignation came too late to save mike brown question yes life, but other policemen should be checked for similar kinds of aggression the become racialized when their targets are african people. >> what needs to happen now? what do you think of what the president is doing today, having

the summit with young civil rights leaders, talking about the militarizing of the police as well as a communities of color can get along with law enforcement? >> i applaud the president for that, but again, when i made the analogy earlier about abuse in the communities that have been abused, let's not tennis is an equivalence. there are no instances -- well, there are not instances that we have been outraged about by a thames of broad communities to target police people and to constantly murder them, assault them, and the like. there are tremendous tensions that need to be discussed. of course the policing of communities is necessary, given the extraordinary difficulties in some communities and the crime and other communities. there is no doubting that. but to simply say, let's develop trust. what does it rest upon? negotiating differences in informing the police that they cannot be occupying forces in these african-american and latino committees and these poor areas.

so it is a matter of not only developing trust because we have to understand each other, we also have to camp down on the lethal ferocity of police departments that of an over militarized, undertrained when it comes to telling with people of color, refusing to acknowledge their humanity, and that thin blue line that ostensibly separates police people from so-called civilian society, has often been blurred and the erratic and i think often dangerous practices of rogue cops or cops who don't have enough sensitivity about the humanity of people of color and others needs to be raised. it is a good first step, but i think just like the commission was convened by president lyndon ofnson while the flames detroit, my home city, were yet burning, while there are embers of simmering tensions in ferguson, yet i think the president should in panel a commission to talk about police

brutality in america, and to understand its vicious consequences and what we could do to resolve it. >> you really got into it with warmer new york city mayor ready on "meet the press" said it was a distraction from the real problem of "black on black crime." i find it very disappointing you're not discussing the fact that 93% of blacks in america are killed by other blacks. we talking about the exception here. -- irst of all, it is >> we're talking about the significant exception. 93% of blacks are killed by other blacks. >> them he responded that -- >> i would like to see the attention paid to that that you are paying to this, and the solutions to that. >> first of all, most black people who commit crimes against other black people go to jail.

number two, they're not swarm of the police department as an agent of the state to uphold the law. so in both cases, that is a false equivalency the mayor has strong. >> put giuliani appeared later on fox news and defended his argument. this is part of what he said. >> the danger is not a white police officer. that is going happen less than 1% of the time. if it were my child, the danger is another black. 93% of the time, they will be killed by another black. the idea that white stone go to jail for killing blacks? first of all, only about 3% of whites kill blacks. they go to jail at approximately the same rate, conviction rate is honest exactly the same. the difference is, it is a very rare exception when a white kills a black. >> that his former mayor rudy giuliani. your response, michael eric dyson? all, we end up having statistical myopia.

what i did not get a chance to say because i have a host -- understandably -- concerned about keeping the peace on the panel so i'm being waived down by the host and hollered at him a so to speak, by my opponent. you don't get a chance under those conditions, unlike right here, to say what you have to say. one of the things that is necessary to say, 84% of white people who were killed are murdered by other white people. why are we outraged by white on white crime? why are we caulking about the vicious and insidious decline of moral stature in white america? why aren't we talking about pathologies of white culture that lead to messagelabs being generated on campuses or the decline in moral imagination is exhibited in pop stars who are [indiscernible] in white culture? we could develop a kind of againstf demonology what america, which would be ridiculous. the problem is deeper and more profound than that. groupscial violence in

intraracial balancing groups is endemic of america. people kill where they live. that is a tongue-in-cheek there. the irony is the fact that mr. giuliani is unconscious of that, will not speak directly to that, because it would throw him off the scent of the trilogy men as an african american people. now, black people themselves are quite concerned about death in their own communities. just yesterday here in d.c., a woman was on television, a black woman, asking for help in solving the murder of her son. they had a videotape or a recording of a man going into a building and then rushing out who was thought to be the murderer of her son. i think it was an african-american man. there was not any, oh, no, let's exempt it from moral critique because he is a black person. we are as outraged as anyone

else by so-called black on black crime. we're enraged when black people kill black people. it lets not divorce the killing of black people by black people from broader cultural imaginations that have demonized black people. like people watch a lot of television and consume a lot of pop-culture. -- thepicious and skip suspicion and skepticism of black identity pervades black culture as well. >> michael eric dyson, we have less than a minute. you raise in your column the issue of bill cosby. i was wondering if you could just end on your concern about what has come out about him, the raping and mugging of the series of women over 40 years. >> it is evil. it is horrible. it should be talked about and dealt with. i was demonized when i get within 10 years ago in my book. many black people waved me down and sent me away saying, you are wrong, by checking your great figure like this. what is hurtful to me, while he is been accused of this raping and mugging, which is absolutely

evil, african-american women were demonized by him is a link which before and they were not protected. >> well michael eric dyson, , thank you for being with us university professor of , sociology at georgetown university. we will to your piece in "the new york times" "where do we go after ferguson?" when we come back, we go to cairo, egypt, to talk about dropping the charges against former president mubarak. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now to egypt, where

they said they will not pursue the bark falling a court case to drop charges against him. he was convicted of killing hundreds of protesters during an uprising against his regime almost four years ago. the decision, on a technicality, means he will walk free after finishing a prison term on corruption charges. judge mahmoud kamel al-rashidi announced the verdict. >> the court dismisses criminal charges against mohammed hosni mubarak in connection with the killing of protesters in 2011 because the prosecution issued ,n order on the 23rd of march 2011, stating he could not stand charges. these case >> shortly after the verdict, mubarak spoke to a local television station via telephone and defended his 30-year rule, saying -- "i felt i did nothing wrong at

all. i was waiting to find out what they will come up with this time. it was an innocent verdict. i did nothing wrong at all." mubarak is being held in a military hospital, and is expected to serve at least a few more months of this sentence. soon after the decision was announced, police used tear gas to disperse thousands of protesters who gathered in cairo's tahrir square on at least one person was reported saturday. killed during the clashes. mubarak was accused of ordering protesting in the first protest. my friends and brother were killed. when i found out he was innocent, i was shocked. >> for more, we're joined by sharif kudos, democracy now! correspondent in cairo, and hossam bahgat, here in new york. he is the founding director of the line society research unit at the american university of cairo and the founding executive director of the egyptian

initiative for personal rights. he is a visiting scholar at columbia journalism school. we welcome you both. sharif, let's go to you first. tell us what is happening now in the response overall. the innocent verdict for mubarak. as you mentioned, there were protests the day of the verdict, just outside tahrir square. tahrir was closed by police armored trucks and barbed wire, but a few people did gather outside protesting. there was probable anger. two people were killed when protesters.ked one of the two reportedly shot six times. universities across the country help desk held protests. students have been one of the

epicenters of dissent. the continue protesting decision yesterday. the message to many egyptians with his verdict was justice has not been served. august 3, 2011, when mubarak first appeared in court, it was his first public appearance since being ousted following the popular uprising against him. the only reason he was in court was because of mass mobilizations calling for him to be tried. it was a seminal moment in egyptian history. he was behind bars listening to the charges against him. less than 3.5 years later, it has been reversed, erased. i think while many people weren't that surprised by the ruling, given the nature of the judiciary we have seen over the past your, given the nature of the political situation in egypt right now, i think many were surprised by their capacity to still feel anger and indignation

and be disappointed and upset by this verdict. to see not only mubarak but his interior minister and the top police chiefs albeit acquitted -- all be equal did, basically, no one being held responsible after dozens of police officers have been acquitted in trials as well, hardly anyone being out responsible for the killing of nearly a thousand people in this uprising. we're supposed to chalk it up to something like mass suicide. it is a very difficult moment. i think a dark one in egypt's history. >> and the way the media has covered this, sharif? well, there's been a surprising reaction. a lot of the media -- there is been even within sympathetic channels that are sympathetic to regime and newspapers, there's been a lot of anger about it as well. the main refrain we have been hearing is, so who is the killer?

because everyone has gotten off scott free. we saw some of these anchors really questioning legal scholars about with this decision means. there's been quite an angry tone. mubarak is fair game for most people. it is safer a lot of these anchors to speak out against him. but still, it was a change of tone from a lot of the very sycophantic type of coverage we've seen. obviously, mubarak, shockingly, was all then to one of these television stations right after the verdict was announced. he said he a done nothing wrong during his term. he said he had lacked in 2012 when the light sentence against him was handed down, which of course, has been overturned. there is been two kinds of reactions in the media as well. >> hossam bahgat, could you talk about the significance of this

decision? does he walk out now? himan, we've only seen laying down. he is always brought into court and a gurney. him, his sons, and people around him, as sharif described. decide toauthorities apply the law, then, yes, you should be free to go. if authorities decide perhaps he should spend a few more weeks until the streets are quieter, i think it is going to show a lot he iserstanding, given not exactly in prison. he has been in a military hospital for months now. but really, the effect of the rest onis not going to where he stays now. the effect is are ready been achieved. judge, by exonerating everyone, i mean, made it very

clear, of course, this is not about the body of evidence that has been examined. not by the legal arguments that have been levied by the parties. this is about writing for history, really. as some point, the judge said the court decision is about 1400 pages and he circulated a 200-page summary of his decision. many, of course, have been going through that over the last two days. it is really remarkable. barely surprised by anything the judiciary does now. it is very sad. we're talking about a court system that is over 150 years the courtused to be

system of the air world. but what we have seen over the last year and half to two years, especially the criminal justice system has been appalling. under those circumstances and according to those standards, this decision is really outstanding. >> he was acquitted of killing protesters. >> initially, the charge was that he had ordered or failed to stop the killing of protesters. the judge decided to throw out that charge on a technicality, saying that prosecutors did not follow the right procedure in adding him to that ongoing case in 2011. really, what truly is astonishing about this decision is, after the judge is done exonerating everyone and addressing every charge, for

about eight pages, the judge goes into what he calls, literally, the historical context of this verdict. he says, again literally, so, i'm not going to rule on the merits of these charges because of these procedural errors, but let me tell you what really happened in 2011. then he goes on to repeat everything that the propaganda machine of sisi and the current regime and the mubarak people have been advancing about a global conspiracy. he literally said the axis of evil of the united states oligarchy, israel, and iran, came together, collaborated with the muslim brotherhood, there was a group of people that was flown abroad to receive training in civil disobedience, people who created organizations. they all come together, agitated angry people. some police officers may have chosen to shoot at protesters,

not following any orders, and that is when the muslim totherhood used that may him shoot above the police and the protesters, killing all of these people. for eight pages, this is the argument he advances. the doesn't forget to throw income as we know, the united states finances the muslim brotherhood in order to destabilize the country every time we go toward stability. that is a sign summary by the judge that has been circulated for the last two days. >> where does the country go from here? >> it depends really -- i think what we've seen in terms of the reaction, especially on campuses where -- we are in the middle of an academic year. it shows the degree of confidence the current regime has was perhaps a bit overstated. there is been a lot of anger. even the press that is pro-regime, promilitary, has been shot the not even mubarak's interior minister has been

punished. nothing. we may see [indiscernible] if they decide to appeal the not guilty verdict, in which cases the next trial will be conducted by the country's supreme court. >> sharif, the response in the streets and the protest in tahrir? what this means for the movements and democracy? >> well, there's very little space for any kind of dissent, any kind of opposition right now in egypt. you risk years in prison, risk her life by going down on the streets. the students seem to be the last of the center of dissent. that is continuing. we will have to wait and see how this goes forward. this really portrays an alarmingly selective justice system in egypt. the day after this ruling, 25 muslim brotherhood leaders got three years in prison for chanting in a trial. miners got two78

to five years in prison for protesting. we have the most prominent activist -- >> sharif, we have to leave it there. thank you so much for being with us. [cap