captured a jordanian pilot after shooting down his plane over sir. that confirmed by the goferte on wednesday. the extremist's first successful downing of an aircraft from an international coalition waging war against them. >> these pictures appeared on a jihadist website. they pulled a man out of a lake. they say they have captured a jordanian pilot of the

international coalition. the pilot is a 26-year-old first lieutenant who was taking part in a military operation targeting islamic state positions. according to statements read on jordan's national television. >> the islamic group doesn't hide its terrorist plans against the kingdom of jordan. the group has conducted many criminal operations, inkilling people, muslims and christians alike in jordan and iraq. they hold them account football for the safety of the pilot. >> the information was confirmed by the minister, who said the plane was shot down by ground fire. >> this is a time of solidarity. we all stand beside the family of the pilot. we said right from the beginning that this was going to be a continue was and long war, and we think that we have a duty to defend our country and our region from this wave

of terrific. >> this is the first time the jihadists managed to bring down a plane of the international coalition waging war against them. a long-time alley of the united states, jordan has been taking part of the air strikes alongside other countries of the region such's saudi arabia, the unit the emirates and others. >> we stay with issues related to the islamic state group. the german jurrjensist has been speaking to us here at "france 24" about his experience inside the organization. he is the only reporter to get this open insight into their network. they spoke at length to him. she began by asking him by how such a small number of jihadists managed to seize such a long area in a short space of time. >> i know they have something. they are ready to die. but this is not the first group which is ready to die.

they are very strong and i think they are trained by former officers of zambrano hussein -- sadam hussein. they think that they do something great, something historic religious. at the end of their path they think there will be only three religions, islam but a very rigid and hard islam that is lived now maybe by 0.001% and jews and christians. and all the other religions have to be killed, have to disappear. they talk about hundreds of millions, even billions. all the non-believers have to die. that is what they say. and they think that is a big fight a fight now between good

and bad, and they are good and this is the reason why they are very very successful. and if they die, they think they go to paradise directly. >> in terms of their military capability the, dodd they shot down a jordanian war plane over sir. in your view, given what you have seen, do you think they have the capability to do this more frequently in the future? >> maybe. i stay only things that i have seen. i read in the newspapers in the last days that they have lost some villages. they don't care if they lose a village. it is because they take or conquer five, 10 or 20 the other day. if they have the capability to shoot down modern airplanes, then they are very strong. but they buy the weapons that we give to the free syrian army

. so they get western wilhelmsen. they get french, german and american weapons. they say the best sales of weapons is the free syrian army, which is financed by nato probably also by france and by the united states. >> you said that the west is under estimating the strength of the islamic state group. 62 countries including several arab states are currently engaged in a campaign to destroy them. would you not say that is an adequate response at this stage? >> yes, i think, because this fight has been fought almost only by the united states. the arab countries don't do that much. they participate officially, but it is more of the united states. i personally think that only the sunni rockies -- iraqs

which are discriminated against will defy the sunni i.s., but they won't do it because they are discriminated by the government, maliki. they have changed maliki, but it is still the same government. only arabs can fight down this arab terroristic organization. but the western bombardments will never be successful. they have never been successful. we were not successful in afghanistan. we were not successful in iraq. how shall we fight down i.s.? isis is much stronger than the afghan taliban, and i know the afghan taliban very well. i met their leaders and i met their fighters. this group is much stronger. >> you talked about life on the ground among the islamic state

militants, how they are building schools, how they are building loyalty among sunni muslims. you did not talk about the systemic rain of sunni women and children something we saw in horrific detail in a report by amnesty. did you not witness any of that going on? >> i did not see that. if this happens, if a systemic rain would happen, then they wouldn't show it to me. but i saw prisoners, normal prisoners. i saw a lot of things, a lot of horrible things. it is very clear they have killed many people, made women to slaves. you can buy slaves. you have slavery in this country, and this is something that i can not accept. but they think that slavery is normal. slavery was normal under

christians at the beginning -- >> did you see children taken as slaves? we had girls as young and so were being rained and taken as sexual slaves by isis militants. >> i had not seen that. if i had season that, i would tell it to you. but i have seen children who were fighters, 13-year-old fighters, and i found this also horrible. but i know that the slaves, the women. for shias they kill the men and take the women and children as slaves. these slaves are not sold on a market like people think in europe. they are given to an officer or somebody who has gained merit, and he can sell them, and he can give them to a friend.

it is horrible. unacceptable. >> why do you think you were allowed to leave this part of the world with your life, with your health when other journalists and aid workers have been brutally murdered by this group? >> these people who have been murdered have been called or sold to i.s. i negotiated with i.s. for seven months to get a guarantee. that is the reason why i could come home safe and why i am still alive. but i must say the biggest danger during this very hard part of 10 days were the airplanes of the united states and of president assad. >> i wanted to ask you as well

about the level of support that this group has among local communities? >> here i can only -- the other things i have seen them or have not seen them. but here i can only give impressions. i had the impression that the support in mosul is quite strong because the sunnis in mosul have been discriminated. and i have the impression after discussions i had in sir that the support in raca, sir is not as strong and that bashar al-assad still has very strong support in raca, maybe with a trick because egg still paying salaries to his people in raca.

so in raca, it is a more difficult situation for isis. in mosul it is not as easy. they have killed thousands of shias, the rest have been forced to leave. 130,000 people have been forced to flee and run away. the rest have been killed or forced to go away, too. we have only sunnis now in mosul, and they are discriminated, and have had a very, very hard time during the last 11 years. >> how many foreign fighters did you see alongside the iraqis and the syrians who were already there? we have a lot of reports in french about french nationals fighting with the group. did you see that first hand? >> many europeans.

i saw many europeans in streets of mosul. i saw swedish guys, french people americans. i saw a guy from the caribbean. he just had passed his law exam, and he got a job as a judge or as a lawyer, but i think he was accepted as a judge, and he preferred to fight for the islamic state instead of making a brilliant career in a caribbean country. i spoke to them. they don't give you details. if you ask too detailed a question then they put their mafpk on and say we are not allowed to -- put on their mask and say we are not allowed to say anything. i saw near the border of turkey every day more than 50 european fighters arrived. fifty. very enthusiastic people.

not only what we would call losers or people who failed their life in in your opinion or in the united states, also very successful people. people from new jersey which is a richer part of new york. the son of one of the richest bankers of london. i saw french people really ethnic french people enthusiastic toe fight against the rest of the world -- to fight against the rest of the world for islamic state. >> that was the german journalist who spent 10 days with the islamic state group, speaking to us about his experiences, observations. we will be playing more of that throughout our programming this evening here on "france 24." next ukraine peace talks in

minsk. kiffin -- kisner ev and pro russian separatist are meeting. the meeting comes a day after the ukraine parliament dropped the country's non-aligned status. russia said it was counterproductive, a move which could allow it to try to join nato. that joining could be something like eight or 10 years away. but it was certainly a move further away from russia. very little is expected to emerge from this meeting. >> the fact they are talking is definitely worth talking about. these are closed-door talks. we don't know specifically what they are saying behind closed doors, but we have been given a pretty good idea. they have no derth of issues to discuss. i say talks because we have a first round today. if these are successful, there is supposed to be a second round on friday. presumably they take a break

for christmas tomorrow. they are talking about prisoner exchange. both sides are holding prisoners. the usain korans have signaled they are ready to release up to 225 prisoners they have taken. the ukrainian security services estimate 630 prisoners are being hold. prisoner swaps. also stopping the fight withdrawing heavy weapons. this is causing the flying. the cease-fire was signed on september a. for many months after that, over 1,000 people have died since that cease-fire was signed. in the past two weeks there has been what is called a silent regime. things have seemed to be more quiet. there is an unsteady truce with sporadic firing from either side. but it seems to have been holding. it is a little better environment. finally, what they are eventually going to have to tackle are bigger issues.

essentially they accuse kiev of cutting off financing. and the status. there are two regions which are the separatist bastions, they want their own status. the problem is the pro-russian separatists held their own elections in november. kisner ev then said basically everything is off. >> the christmas latos on the champs-elysees is one of the best displace in france, if not the world. where would you rank this? 25 residents but their christmas lights pull in over po,000 visitors each year. that must rank them as the christmas lights capital of that area of france. fantastic display.

it gets you in the mood for christmas. you are watching "france 24." stay with us. >> hell other and welcome to the interhere on "france 24." our guest is the minister of information of the government of tibet in exile. thank you very much for boeing with us. >> yes. >> you are in europe to rally support for your cause, a tall order nowadays as china is flexing its economic and diplomatic muscles with western governments and tell them to stay away from this sensitive issue. you are officially advocating for autonomy for tibet, an option rejected by beijing

which accuses you of separatism. can you bring us up to date on the issue in tibet? can you tell us about the situation in tibet? foreign journalists do not have access there. we would be happy to learn more about what is going on? >> the situation in tibet with this human rights violation problem has been going on for now over 50 years. what that indicates since 2009 is that the situation is just as bad as ever in the sense that there is political repression cultural simulation , economic modulization, a lack of religious freedom and environmental destruction. what is very particular about this is historically this is

unprecedented for them. that is a solitary act of political protest. what the people are trying to say through these actions is to send an unequivocal message to the international community that beijing needs to re-evaluate its policies in the tibetan area. for the central administration, we have appealed for them not to have recourse to such drastic actions. while we don't support these actions, we feel a moral duty to make sure that the international community understands the reasons behind these actions. >> so you are condemning these actions? >> no. we are discouraging them. we are not encouraging them. we are very relieved it seems to have slowed down. we have appealeded to the central chinese government to look into the causes behind

them. while we can discourage them, we don't have the power to change the policies that are leading them to act this way. >> is the crack-down in tibet worse than ever? would you describe it this way? >> i think the repression is continuing. it is worsening in the sense that people have limited access to foreign reporters. we don't know what is going on. we know they are cracking down on people who protest politically. they are cracking down on people who are protesting against mining projects. we know that they are cracking down on artists and writers who write about political repression and who are spedgetted of leading political -- who are suspected of leading political protests through the lyrics of their song. yesterday somebody was arrested and sentenced to is it years

for taking part in the 2012 demonstrations, died two days after being released from jail. he was only six years into his 12-year sentence. these are instances where it is very worrying and very clear that prisoners are often tortured. >> is there any hope of a dialogue with beijing? the dialogue was cut off in 2010. it seems as if they are going nowhere in terms of dialogue. or is there hope that eventually something can be started? >> we remain always optimistic in the sense that if beijing is realistic, they have to realize that sooner or later they have to address the tibblet issue in a way -- the tibet issue in a way that is dructive. >> why would they need to address it? china is doing fine. why would they need to address tibet? >> china aspires to be a global

power politically and economically. what it is not obtaining right now is the moral authority and respect. among the reasons is the issue of tibet. >> but do they really care? >> eventually they will care. the issue of tibet is not going to go away. as it seeks to assert itself, how can it assert itself as a global power if it cannot assure other countries and people around the world that it is a peaceful people peaceful government when you are conducting reoppressive policies in your own country? >> the dalai lama recently described the new president of china as someone who is a realist and open-minded. is it wishful thinking, or is there really grounds to believe that the new president could be more flexible on tibet than his

predecessors? >> well, what is clear is, based on his personal background unlike other chinese leaders, he does have a greater degree of familiarity with tibetan culture and buddhism. he wants the best for china and he is a realist. he will realize that sooner or later, if china doesn't address the issue of tibet it is an issue that is not going to go away and it will harm its hopes to establish itself as a peaceful nation. >> did he or his entourage reach out to you to indicate there might be a good reason to sit down at a table together? >> the chinese government has been very clear that they will not resume dialogue with the central tibetan administration. for us, that is fine. if there was a resumption, it

would be with the voice of them. that is fine for us. the priority for us is that the dialogue is resumed. >> but is there maybe an informal dialogue going on right now? on the official level nothing is happening. >> unlike the past, there are a lot of inform alexchange that take place in travel between chinese citizens between the peoples, and i am sure there is conversation back and forth on a solution. what we are proposing is that all the tibetan places be under one area. we want things like religion, security, public health, my at the gration, the development of

resources. these are issues that we know are doable. it is all within the framework of china's constitution. and if there is a political will, there would certainly be solution. >> for the moment it is that than been difficult for you to rally support from many countries. countries in europe are struggling economically. they are seeking chinese investment, and in return they are often not receiving tibetan representatives. norway has welcomed the dalai lama for years. a few months ago the prime minister said no, i am not going to meet with the dalai lama because i want to resume relationship with china. the frern president has not received the dalai lama. is there a problem for you in the sense that western governments are driven by their economic interests maybe more than by their moral obligation? >> well, i think it really varies from individuals who hold office. i don't think that the position

of one leader at this moment is necessarily the position that a country will adopt forever. >> but it must be disappointing for you to see european leaders turn their back to the dalai lama? >> you know, it is unfortunate, but it is basically individual courage and wisdom. you take people like u.s. president obama met his holiness the leader in canada met his holiness. it is individual courage and the ability to say we are not seeking independence. often we have noticed governments and diplomats and even members of the press are not aware of our approach. this is why we have developed

m pacifica this is democracy now! >> [chanting] >> protesters march in milwaukee after a prosecutor decides not to bring charges against a white police officer who fatally shot dontre hamilton, a mentally ill african-american man in april. we will go to milwaukee. then to guantanamo.