03/03/15 03/03/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica this is democracy now! >> the u.s. so-called war against terror has been a smashing success. there was a small group up in the tribal areas of mostly pakistan and afghanistan, al qaeda, that we have succeeded in spreading it all over the world. now they are everywhere. west africa, southeast asia simply generating more and more

terror. amy: today, part two of noam chomsky on the rise of the islamic state, blowback from the u.s. drone program, the legacy of slavery in the united states, the leaks of edward snowden, u.s. meddling in venezuela and the thawing of u.s.-cuban relations. >> the u.s. launched a major terrorist war against cuba. though we kind of downplay at -- it and cia attempts to kill castro bad enough, but that was a very minor part of it. major terrorist war is part of the background for the missile crisis which almost led to nuclear war. amy: and we will hear noam chomsky talk about love and his new marriage. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. iraqi forces are continuing their largest offensive to date

against the so-called islamic state as they seek to retake the city of tikrit. playing a key role in the campaign for the sunni city with reports of iranian troops even operating artillery in the area. u.s. officials, meanwhile, have expressed surprise with the tikrit operation and the pentagon has said it is not providing air support because it wasn't asked. meanwhile, in syria key u.s. backed rebel group has collapsed after a series of defeats by an al qaeda affiliate. a moderate group and armed with u.s. antitank missiles has no allied itself with the islamist shia front. the british group cage has posted audio of the isis militant known as jihadi john recounting an interrogation by a british agent in 2009. in the recording, mohammed emwazi describes how he condemned 9/11 and the deadly july 7, 2005 attacks on the london subway. >> i looked at him face-to-face

new said, what do you think of the 7/7? innocent people [indiscernible] what do think of the war in afghanistan? i said, what do i think? we see innocent people are getting killed. he started telling me, what did you think of 9/11? i said what happened was wrong step what did you want me to say? [indiscernible] amy: emwazi said the agent tried to put words in his mouth and warned him, "we're going to keep a close eye on you." cage has said constant harassment and travel bans by britain prevented emwazi from leading a normal life. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu testifies before congress today in a bid to stop a nuclear deal with iran. his visit comes as the u.s.,

iran and other world powers have resumed nuclear talks ahead of a deadline at the end of the month. speaking before the pro-israel lobby group aipac monday netanyahu gave a preview of today's address. >> i plan to seek about an iranian regime that is threatening to destroy israel, that is devouring country after country in the middle east, that is exporting terror throughout the world, and that is developing as we speak the capacity to make nuclear weapons. lots of them. amy: spy cables published by al jazeera have recently shown netanyahu's dire warnings about iran are out of step with his own spy agency, the israeli mossad. dozens of democrats are expected to boycott netanyahu's address, which was arranged by house speaker john boehner without consulting the white house. president obama has called on iran to freeze sensitive nuclear activity for at least a decade

as part of a nuclear deal. speaking a reuters, obama also defended his relationship with israel. >> under my administration billions of dollars have gone to support israel's security, including the iron down program that has protected them from missiles firing a longer borders. -- along their borders. the cooperation is unprecedented. that is not our estimation, that is the estimation of the netanyahu government. and that bond is unbreakable. amy: presumed democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton has come under scrutiny for her use of a private email address to conduct official business as secretary of state. "the new york times" reports clinton's aides failed to preserve her emails on government servers in a possible violation of federal rules. officials in georgia have postponed the state's first execution of a woman in seven decades due to concerns over the execution drug. kelly renee gissendaner was set to die wednesday evening for plotting to kill her husband even though her former boyfriend, who actually carried out the killing, will be up for parole in eight years after testifying against her.

gissendaner's attorneys have argued she should be spared after transforming her life through religion, but the execution was only delayed because the drug, pentobarbital, appeared cloudy. her execution was delayed last week due to extreme weather. venezuela has ordered the obama administration to reduce staff at its embassy in caracas by 80% amidst the worst diplomatic spat since president nicolas maduro's election in 2013. maduro has accused right-wing opponents of fomenting a coup with u.s. support. his government has given the u.s. 15 days to cut embassy staff from 100 to 17. you can tune into noam chomsky after the headlines talking about the situation in venezuela. the mayor of cleveland has apologized after the city claimed in a legal document 12-year-old african-american tamir rice was to blame for his own death at the hands of police. rice was playing with a toy gun when police fatally shot him within two seconds of their arrival. but in response to a lawsuit filed by rice's family, the city

claimed tamir rice's death was "directly and proximately caused by [his] failure...to exercise due care to avoid injury." mayor frank jackson apologized on tuesday. >> we are apologizing today as a city to the family of tamir rice into the citizens of the city of cleveland for our poor use of words and our insensitivity in the use of those words. amy: the news comes as the los angeles police department is facing protests for its killing of a homeless man on skid row, and as the mexican government has condemned the third u.s. police killing of a mexican citizen in the past month. police in santa ana, california , killed ernesto javier canepa diaz during what they said was a robbery investigation, but few details have been released. meanwhile, a white house task force on policing has issued a series of recommendations, including steps to increase transparency and independent

probes of fatal shootings. the trial continues of the so-called flood wall street eleven has opened in new york. on september 22, the day after the historic people's climate march, thousands of people staged a mass sit-in in manhattan's financial district to protest the role of big banks and the capitalist system in climate change. over 100 were arrested and 11 have taken the charges to court. they plan to use the necessity defense to argue their actions were justified by the urgency of corporate-fueled climate change. john tarleton is one of the defendants. >> we've known about this climate crisis for over a quarter of a century. our political and economic system has completely failed to address it. we believe it is legitimate for other forms of resistance to try to create the pressure to find real solutions. amy: and maryland democratic senator barbara mikulski, the longest serving woman in congressional history, has announced she will not seek re-election next year. mikulski said she wanted to spend her remaining two years in the senate working for her

constituents, instead of fundraising. >> a had to decide how i would spend my time finding for my job, or fighting for their jobs. do i spend my time raising money or do i spend my time raising hell? amy: and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. today, part two of our discussion with noam chomsky the world-renowned political dissident, lynn west, and author. professor emeritus at massachusetts institute of technology, where he's taught for more than half a century. i interviewed him on monday with aaron maté here in our new york studio. today in part two, we look at blowback from the west drone program come the legacy of

slavery in the united states, the leaks of edward snowden, u.s. meddling in venezuela, and the u.s.-to relations. we began by asking the professor how the u.s. should respond to the self proclaimed islamic state. >> it is very hard to think of any ring serious that can be done. it should be settled diplomatically and peacefully to the extent that is possible. it is not inconceivable. isis -- it is a horrible manifestation of hideous actions. it is a real danger to anyone nearby, but so are other forces. and we should be getting together with iran, which has a huge stake in the matter and is the main force involved, with the iraqi government, which is

calling -- applauding iranian support and trying to work out with them some arrangement which will satisfy the legitimate demands of the sunni population which is what isis is protecting and defending and gaining the support from. they are not coming out of nowhere. one of the main effects of the u.s. invasion of iraq -- the remain in horrible effects, but one of them was to incite sectarian conflict that had not been there before. take a look at baghdad before the invasion. sunni and shia lived intermingled in the same neighborhoods, intermarried, sometimes they say they didn't even know if third neighbor was sunni or shia. it was like knowing what protestant sect your neighbor belongs to.

i'm not claiming it was utopia. there were conflicts, but there were no serious conflict. so much so that iraq is at the time predicted there would never be a conflict. within a couple of years, it turned into a violent conflict. look at baghdad today. it is segregated. what is left of the sunni communities are isolated. people cannot talk to their neighbors. war is all over. isis is brutal. same is true of the shia militias. this has now spread over the region. there is now a major sunni-shia conflict ruining the region -- rending the region to shreds. this cannot be dealt with by bombs. this is much more serious than that. it is got to be dealt with by steps toward recovering, remedying the massive damage that was initiated by the

sledgehammer smashing iraq and has now spread. and that does require diplomatic, peaceful means dealing with people who are pretty ugly -- we're not very pretty, either, for that matter -- but it has to be done. exactly what steps should be taken, it is hard to say. there are people whose lives are at stake like the syrian christians the dnc, so on. apparently, the finding that protected -- we don't know a lo fighting that protected the yazedi was largely carried out by the pkk. turkish guerrilla group that is fighting for the kurds in turkey, but based in northern iraq. they are on the u.s. terrorist list.

we can't hope to have a strategy that deals with isis while opposing and -- and attacking the groups that is fighting them, it just doesn't make sense to try to have a strategy that excludes iran, the major state that is supporting iraq. and its final of isis. amy: what about the fact so many of those who were joining isis now, and a lot has been made of the young people, young women and young men, who were going into syria through turkey? turkey is the u.s. ally. there is a border there. they freely go back-and-forth. >> that's right. and it is not young people -- just young people. one thing that is striking, and includes people -- educated people. doctors, professionals, and others. we may not like it, but isis is

the idea of, caliphate is that it does have an appeal to large sectors of her brutalized global population, which is under severe attack everywhere. it has been for a long time. something has appeared which has been appealed of them, and i can't be overlooked if you want to do with the issue. we have to ask, what is the nature of the appeal? why is it there? how can we accommodate it and lead to some, if not at least amelioration of the murders conflict and maybe some kind of settlement. you can't ignore these factors if you want to do with the issue. amy: i want to ask about more information that has come out on the british man who is known as jihadi john. he appears in the islamist state the heading videos. mohammed emwazi has been

identified as that man by british security. they say he is a 26-year-old born in kuwait who moved to the k as a child and studied computer science at the university of westminster. the british group cage said it faced at least four years of harassment, detention, deportations threats, and attempts to recruit him by british security agencies, which prevented him from leading a normal life. emwazi approached cage in 2009 after he was detained and interrogated by the british intelligence agency mi-5 on what he called a safari vacation in tanzania. in 2010 after emwazi was barred from returning to kuwait, he wrote -- in 2013, a week after he was barred from kuwait for third

time, emwazi left home in ended up in syria. the news conference, cage research director spoke about his recollections of emwazi and compared his case to another british man who hacked a soldier to death in london in 2013. >> sorry, it is quite hard because -- i'm really sorry. he was such a beautiful young man, really. you know, it is hard to imagine the trajectory -- it is a trajectory that is unfamiliar for us. once again some a that i'm at came to me for help, looking to change the situation in the system. when are we going to finally learn that when we treat people as if they are outsiders, they will inevitably feel like outsiders and it will look for belonging elsewhere?

amy: that was the cage research director. your response to this, noam chomsky? >> he's right. if you take a look at those who perpetrated the crimes in charlie hebdo, they also have a history of oppression, violence, they come from algerian background, the horrible french dissipation -- participation in the murders war in the 1990's. they live under these harshly repressed areas. and there's much more than that. so you mentioned information is coming out about so-called jihadi john. other information is coming out, which we don't pay much attention to. for example "the guardian" had an article a couple of weeks ago about the yemeni boy.

i think he was about 14 or so. he was murdered in a drone strike. shortly before, they had interviewed him about his history. his parents and family were murdered in drone strikes. he watched them burned to death. we get upset about beheadings will stop they get upset about seeing their father burned to death in a drone strike. he said they live in a situation of constant terror, not knowing when the person 10 feet away from you is suddenly going to be blown away. that is their lives. people like those who live in the slums of paris, in this case, relatively privileged man under pretty harsh repression in england, they also know about that. we may choose not to nor about it but they know. would you talk about beheadings, they know in the u.s.-backed israeli attack on gaza, at the

points with the attack was most fierce, people were not just beheaded, their bodies were torn to shreds. people later try to put the pieces of the body together to find out who they were. these things happen, too. all of this has an impact along with what was described. if we seriously want to deal with the question, we can't ignore that. that is part of the background of people who are reacting this way. aaron: you spoke about how the u.s. invasion set off the sunni-shia conflict in iraq and out of that came isis. i wonder if you see a parallel and libya where the u.s. and nato had a mandate to stop potential massacre in benghazi but then went much further in a no-fly zone and helped topple gadhafi and now we have isis and libya and they are beheading coptic christians, egypt bombing, and the u.s. debating

this expensive for measure libya could be next on the u.s. target list. >> that is a very important analogy. what happened, as you say, there was a claim there might be a massacre in benghazi. and in response to that, there was a human resolution which had several -- you and resolution, which had several elements. one call for cease-fire negotiations, which apparently, it off he accepted. another was a no-fly zone. to stop attacks in benghazi. the three traditional imperial powers britain, france, and the united states, immediately violated the resolution. no diplomacy, no cease-fire. they immediately became the air force of the rebel forces. in fact, the war itself have plenty of brutality.

there were violent militias, attacks on the africans living in libya, all sorts of things. the end result is just to tear libya to shreds. i now, it is torn between two major warring militias, many other small ones. it is gone to the point where they can't even export the main export -- oil. it is just a disaster. total disaster. that is what happens when you strike vulnerable systems. as i said, with a sledgehammer. all kinds of poor but things can happen. in the case of iraq, it is worth recalling third been almost a decade of sanctions which were brutally destructive. we can find out about the sanctions. people prefer not to but we can find out. there's a sort of humanitarian

component of the sanctions called the oil for peace program, instituted when the reports of the sanctions were so harangued us. hundreds of thousands of children dying and so on. it was necessary for the u.s. and britain to institute some he military in part. that was directed by prominent respected international diplomats. dennis halliday resigned. two resigned because the called the unitarian -- humanitarian aspect genocidal. there is a book i think called, "a different kind of work" or something like that, which is never seen a review or even a mention of it in the united states, which detailed in great detail exactly how these sanctions were devastating these civilian society, supporting

saddam because people had simply huddled under the umbrella of power for survival. they didn't say this, but i will add this, probably saving saddam from the fate of other dictators who the u.s. had supported in were overthrown by a popular uprisings. there is a long list of them. they were overthrown from within. saddam wasn't because the civil society that might've carried that out was devastated. he at a pretty efficient rationing system. people were living on it for survival. it severely harmed civilian society. then comes the war. massive war, but give destruction, destruction of antiquities.

the u.s. invasion did the same thing. millions of refugees, horrible blow against society, these things have terrible consequences. there's an interesting interview with graham fuller, one of the leading middle east analysts, a long background in cia, u.s. intelligence. in the interview, he says something like, u.s. created isis. he hastens to add that he is not joining with the conspiracy theories floating around the middle east about how the u.s. is supporting isis -- of course, it is not -- but he says the u.s. created isis in the sense that we established the background from which isis developed as a terrible offshoot , and we can't overlook that. amy: m.i.t. professor noam chomsky. after this break, we will talk to him about cuba and venezuela.

edward snowden, u.s. drones, the legacy of slavery, and a new chapter in his own life, so stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman as we continue our conversation with noam chomsky, we turn to latin america. aaron maté sat down with noam chomsky yesterday. the m.i.t. professor emeritus. we asked him to talk about the thawing of u.s. cuba relations and u.s. meddling in cuba. >> the u.s. has been at war with cuba since the late 1959. cuba had been essentially a colony of the united states, virtual colony. in january 1959, the castro girl us forces took over -- guerrilla forces took over. by late that year, u.s. planes were already bombing cuba from florida.

i think was in march 1960 there's a formal decision internally to overthrow the government. john f. kennedy came in shortly after, the bay of pigs. after the bay of pigs, it was almost hysteria in washington about how to punish the cubans for this. kennedy made some incredible speeches about how the future of the world is at stake in dealing with cuba and so on. the u.s. launched a major terrorist war against cuba. we kind of downplay it and it gets reported that cia attempts to kill castro that enough, but that was a very minor part of it. major terrorist war. it is part of the background for the missile crisis, which almost led to eternal nuclear war right after the crisis, the terrorist were picked up again. meanwhile, the sanctions -- very harsh sanctions against cuba --

right from the eisenhower regime, picked up an extended by kennedy, extended further under clinton who actually outflanked bush from the right on extending the sanctions. the world has been totally opposed to this. the vote at the general some bleak can't do it at the security council because he vetoes everything. at the general simile, the votes were overwhelming. i think the last one was 182-to, u.s. and israel and sometimes they pick up popular or something like that. this is been going on year after year. the u.s. is utterly isolated. not just on this issue, many others. finally, notice of obama did not end to sanctions. in fact, he did not even and the restrictions many of the restrictions on travel and so on. made a mild gesture toward moving towards normalization of relations. that is presented -- the way it

is presented here, we have to test cuba to see, as obama put it, our efforts to improve the situation in cuba have failed right, big and efforts to improve, tear, sentience -- the sanctions are incredible. say sweden was sending medical equipment, which had cuban nickel in it, that had to be banned. things like that. amy: and terrorism? >> it went on into the 90's. the worst part was under kennedy and picked up again in the late 70's and so on. major terrorists are provided refuge in florida. posada is another. the bush doctrine, a country that harbors terrorists is the same as the terrorists

themselves. that is for others, not for otheus. but we have to test cuba to see if they are making successful gestures now that our own policy of bringing freedom and democracy did not work, so we have to try new policy. the irony of this is almost indescribable. the fact these words can be said is shocking. it is a sign, again, of failure to reach a minimal level of civilized awareness and behavior . but the steps -- i mean, it is good there are small steps being taken. it is interesting, too, to see the cuban intellectual community. there's a dissident intellectual community, how they have been reacting to it.

there's an interesting article by it by my daughter, who is a cuba specialist. but we don't look at that. we don't hear what they are saying. amy: what are they saying? >> as i was just saying, it is a good step that the u.s. is beginning to move, but have to begin to face up to the reality of what has been happening which is, the u.s. has been attacking cuba. the primary reason, probably for obama's slight moves are the u.s. was becoming completely isolated in the hemisphere. it is not just that the world is opposed, the hemisphere is opposed. and that is a remarkable development. amy: speaking of latin america overall, i want to turn to the latest that is happening in venezuela with the u.s.-venezuelan relations. venezuela has announced the arrest of an unspecified number of americans on charges of espionage.

at least some of whom have been reportedly released the left the country. begin at a rally, the venezuelan president nicolas maduro said the suspects were trying to stoke antigovernment political sentiment. >> we detected activity and we have captured some your citizens and undercover activities, in hidden activities, espionage trying to win over people and towns along the venezuelan coast , trying to win over people in some neighborhoods. we captured a pilot of the u.s. plane of latin origin with all sorts of documentation. amy: president maduro announced new restrictions on the number of u.s. diplomats allowed in venezuela and ruled changes that will subject americans to the same visa requirements venezuelans face in the united states. president maduro has also unveiled a list of american politicians are from entering venezuela in response to us sanctions against venezuelan officials last year. maduro has repeatedly accused right-wing opponents of fomenting a coup with u.s.

support. the white house has denied the charges, but said last week it is considering tools to "steer the venezuelan government in the direction they should beheaded." professor noam chomsky your response? >> one question we should immediately ask ourselves is brought up by your observation that venezuela is planning to impose on u.s. citizens the same restrictions that the united states imposes on venezuelans. why do we impose those restrictions? supposed say iran was sending people to the united states to foment opposition to the government and call for change in the regime, how would we react? unimaginable. but we consider it it our right to do that elsewhere. incidentally, this is not a justification of venezuelan

actions. the fact that we do it doesn't make it justified. if others do it, no, it is not justified. venezuela has severe internal problems. there's no doubt about that. amy: what is your assessment of maduro and how he compares to president chavez? >> chavez had charisma and popular support, and appealed that maduro doesn't have. but there is -- there are difficult economic circumstances to face within venezuela. the economy is in difficult shape. during the chavez years there were progress in many areas, but there was a success in moving venezuela away from strictly oil-based economy. there is very little in the way of diversification of the economy.

department of agriculture, industry, and so on. that is a pretty weak read for an economy to rest on. it is not a successful developer program. that is now showing up. the word inflation problems. they were never able to deal with the problems internal violence. it is not the most violent country in the hemisphere, but it is pretty bad. these are serious internal problems that are undoubtedly being exacerbated, to some extent, by u.s. involvement. by rights, we should be trying to support venezuela to overcome its internal problems, not trying to light fires that will make them wars. amy: how can the u.s. do that? >> for example, we can eliminate those restrictions you're talking about. we can be providing economic and technical assistance that could be used to overcome internal

difficulties. these are things that could be done. instead, what we're doing is maintaining position of extreme hostility. there are plenty of problems internally and our actions are purposefully making them worse -- not by accident. the u.s. government wants to make them worse because it wants the regime overthrown. chavez's own estimate, whether it is accurate or not i can't judge, but his position is that the united states was willing to tolerate his government up to the point when he began to play significant role in opec and convinced the opec countries, the oil-producing countries, to lower production in order to raise prices. and the u.s. was strongly opposed to that.

and what he says is, that is when the u.s. government turned against him. the u.s. openly backed the 2002 coup which briefly overthrew the government, and has continued subversive activities. that is his judgment. amy: m.i.t. professor noam chomsky. ♪ [music break]

>>amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. we are spending the hour with m.i.t. professor, author, and activist noam chomsky. we sat down with him monday. i asked him about the significance of the leaks by national security agency whistleblower edward snowden and whether he should be allowed to return to the united states without facing any charges. >> he should be welcomed as a person who carried out the obligations as a citizen. he informed american citizens what their government is doing to them. that is exactly what a person who israel patriotism, and of

the flag-waving type, would do. so he should be honored, not just allowed back. it is the people of the government who should be on trial, not him. amy: was talking to a friend who said, when you talk about edward snowden, what about the issues of terrorism and having to spy on those who might want to hurt others? >> if they want -- first of all we can raise this question, but it is academic because they're not preventing terrorism. you recall when the snowden revelations came out, the immediate reaction from the government highest level, keith alexander and others, was that these nsa programs had stopped, i think they said 54 so, ask of terror. gradually, when the press started asking questions, it was whittled down to about 12. finally, came down to one.

and that act of terror was a man who had sent, i think, $8,500 to somalia. that is the yield of this massive program. and it is not intended to stop terrorism. it is intended to control the population. that is quite different. you have to be very cautious in accepting the claims by power systems. they have no reason to tell you the truth. you have to look and ask, well what is the truth? the system is not a system for protecting terrorism. you can say the same about the drone assassination program. that is a global assassination program, far and away the worst after terror in the world. it is also a terror-generating program. and they know it. from high places, you can find quotation after quotation where they know it. take this one case i mentioned before, this child who was

murdered in a drone strike after having watched his family burned to death by drone strikes -- amy: in yemen. >> what is the effect on this of people? it is to create terror. close analyses have shown that is exactly what happens. a very important book by an important anthropologist who is of pakistani, trouble systems, were to northwest territories and so forth am a called -- he goes through in some detail the effect on tribal societies simply from their point of view, murdering people at random. the drone attacks, remember, are aimed at people who are suspected of may be someday wanting to harm us. i mean supposed say iran was killing people in the united states and israel, who they thought might someday want to

harm them, they could find plenty of people, would we consider that legitimate? again, we have the right to carry out mass murder of suspects who we think might harm us someday. how does the world look at this? how did the people look at this in his village where this child -- they are terrorized by constant drone strikes all over northwest pakistan? the u.s. so-called war against terror has been a smashing success. there was a small group up in the tribal areas of most pakistan and afghanistan, al qaeda, and we've succeeded in spreading it over the whole world. now they are everywhere. northwest africa, southeast asia , simply generating more and more terror. and i think -- it is not that

the u.s. is trying to generate terror, it is simply that it doesn't care. amy: i want to ask you s aboutyriza. in greece, a movement that started as a grassroots movement, now they have taken power. the prime minister. and the have spain. we recently spoke to public yglesias, the secretary-general of the group called podamas, and anti-austerity party that has rapidly gained popularity. a month after establishing itself last year, they won five seats in the european parliament in some polls show they could take the next election, which would mean that pop low iglesias could possibly become the prime minister of europe's fifth-largest economy. he came here to new york for about 72 hours and i asked him to talk about what austerity

measures have meant in spain. >> austerity means that [indiscernible] austerity means that public schools have the means -- austerity means that they are not struggling anymore. we became a colony. austerity probably means the ends of democracy. i think if we don't have democratic control of the economy, we don't have democracy. it is impossible to separate those, in my opening. talks that was pablo iglesias, the head of this new austerity group in spain.

the significance of these movements? >> very significant, but noticed the reaction. the reaction to syriza was externally savage. they made a little bit of progress in their negotiations, but not much. the germans came down very hard on them. amy: you mean in dealing with the death? force them to back off on almost all of the proposals. what is going on with the austerity is really class war. as an economic program austerity under session makes no sense. it just makes the situation worse. so the greek debt relative to gdp has actually gone up during the period with the policies that are supposed to overcome the debt. in the case of spain it was that public debt, it was private debt. it was the actions of the banks. that also means that german banks. remember, when a bank makes dangerous, risky borrowing

summit is making a risky lending. and the policies that are designed by the troika are basically paying off the banks the perpetrators, much like the population is suffering. one of the things that is happening is the social democratic policies so-called welfare state, is being eroded. that is class war. it is not an economic policy that makes any sense to end the series recession. there is a reaction to it. greece spain, some in ireland and growing elsewhere, perhaps but it is a very dangerous situation and could lead to a right-wing response. very right-wing. the alternative to syriza might be golden dawn, the old not to party. amy: and then you have in the united states, movement around accountability overall. is the 50th anniversary of the

selma bloody sunday, march 7 when john lewis, now a congressman, and scores of others had her head's been in by alabama state troopers. it is 50 years later and you have the black lives matter movement. you have the stories repeatedly around the country of police officers killing young people and not so young people of color. what do you make of this movement and do you see the anti-austerity movement in europe, the accountability movement in the united states, the movement around climate change -- the you see these coalescing in any way? >> they should, but in actual fact, the degree of coalescence is not high. we should remember -- take selma. if you listen to the rhetoric on martin luther king day, it is

instructive. it typically ends with the "i have a dream" speech and the voting rights. martin luther king didn't stop there. he went on to condemning the war in vietnam and are raising class issues. he began to raise class issues and turned to the north. at that point, he fell out of favor and disappeared. he was assassinated when he was trying to organize a poor people's movement, and supporting sanitation workers strike in memphis. there was supposed to be a march to washington to establish a poor people's movement, and appeal to congress to do something about class issues. the march actually took place after his death, led by his widow, ended up in washington, set up tent city, resurrection city. the most liberal commerce meant

in history tolerated it and then sent police in the middle of the night and drove them out of town. that disappeared from the rhetoric on martin luther king day. it is ok to condemn a racist sheriff and i'll a >>, but not -- do not touch our privilege and power. that is a large part of the background. these issues are very real. there are more issues here. racism is a very serious problem in the united states. take a look at the scholarly work on george fredrickson's study of the whites primacy comparative study -- was supremacy, comparative study. he concludes the white supremacy in the united states was even more extreme and savage than in south africa. just think of our own history. our economy, our wealth, privilege relies very heavily on

a century of horrifying slave labor camps. con production was not just the fuel of the industrial revolution, it was the basis for the financial system, the merchant system, commerce in would as well. these were bitter, brutal slave labor camps. there's a recent study by edward baptiste that comes out with some sparkling information. the title is something like "the have that was never told." he shows pretty convincingly in the slave labor camps, the plantations, will call them politely, the productivity increased more rapidly in an industry with no technological advance, just the bullwhip, just by driving people harder and harder to the point of survival.

there were able to increase productivity and profit. it is not -- he also points out the word "torture" is not used in the discussion of this period . he introduces it should be used. these are camps that could have impressed nazis. it is a large part of the basis for our wealth and privilege. is there a slave museum in the united states? the first one is just being established now by private -- some private donor. i mean, the core of our history, along with the extermination or expulsion of the native population. but it is not part of our consciousness. amy: you're headed off on a latin america trip right now for a month. you will be in brazil. you will beginning talks in argentina. when you go to brazil, you will be meeting your new family. >> that is correct.

amy: i was wondering if you could talk a little about that? >> we have been talking about a variety of things that range from unpleasant to horrific, but we shouldn't overlook the fact that the world has some wonderful things in it too. i got an unexpected, wondrous gift from brazil that fell into my arms not long ago. we are now about to celebrate our first anniversary and off to brazil to meet her family. amy: what is that like for you? you are seen around the world by many as not only as a person who shares incredible political insight in the world, but also as a role model. can you talk personally by your own life? >> i'm not -- i'm a pretty

private person, i've never talked about my own life much. personally i have been very fortunate in my life. there have been tragedies. there have been wonderful things. valeria's sudden appearance is one of those wonderful things. aaron: you said after your first wife carol died that life without love is empty. something along those lines. can you talk about that? >> i could produce some clichés which have the merit of being true. life without love is a pretty empty a fair. aaron: in your own tireless schedule, keeping up with her lectures, writing extensive articles, and still tirelessly

answering the e-mails from correspondence from people around the world. when i was in college i really several times and got back to his long, detailed answers on complex questions. people across the globe could attest to similar experience. do you feel a certain obligation to respond to people? because nobody would fall you at the age of 86 now, if you took more time for yourself. >> i don't know if it is an obligation, exactly. it is a privilege, really. these are the important people in the world. i remember our wonderful comment by howard zinn about the callous number of unknown people -- countless number of unknown people who are the driving force in history and progress, and that is people like -- i did not know you, but people like you writing from college. these are people that deserve respect, encouragement, hope for the future.

they are an inspiration for me personally. amy: you mention your daughter being an expert on cuba, among others. you have three children that you and carol raised. now broadening your family to valeria as well. can you talk about your philosophy of child rearing in a very politically active family? you have said in the past that you thought because of your opposition to the war in vietnam, for example, you might spend years in jail. >> came very close. can close enough so that by 1967, 1968 when resistance activities were at their heights, and i was in unindicted co-conspirator in one trial and the prosecutor announced i would be the leading person in the next trial -- amy: in which trial?

>> the so-called trials of the resistance. the first was called the spot coffin trial although, there's a lot to say about that. the next ones were called off, mainly because of the tet offensive in vietnam which convinced the american business community that the war is going to drag on and in rather significant power play, the compelled johnson to start backing off. one of the things they did was into the trials. it was serious enough that my wife carol went back to school after 16 years to get her finish up -- to finish up her doctoral degree since we had three kids to take care of. during those years although it was extremely active, i mean, the were times i was giving seven talks a day and going to demonstrations and so on, but i always managed -- took care to spend as much time as i could quality time with the kids when

they were growing up. amy: what gives you hope? >> things like what you described. also, the wonderful things in the world, the kind that i mentioned like my wife. amy: m.i.t. professor, world-renowned linguist, dissident and author, noam chomsky. to hear part one of our interview yesterday when he talked about israeli prime minister netanyahu's speech to commerce today, you can go to our website. this is just a clip. >> basically, joint effort by netanyahu and must the republican hawks in the united states to undermine any possibility of a negotiated settlement with iran and neither israel nor u.s. hawks want to talk alert -- tolerate a deterrent in the region. amy: noam chomsky. to hear both of our hours of interview with him, go to democracynow.org. that does it for our broadcast. democracy now! is looking for

feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] ÷ (narrator) the quest for immortality--

the desire to extend th certainties of life beyond the grave-- is as old as egypt itself. the pyramids at giza, the wonders of the ancient world were not just designed as the pharaoh's last resting-place. they were