r/ 04/28/15ossible by democracy now!] amy: broadcasting from the world forum in the hague, this is democracy now! >> most of us are not here because we knew freddie gray but we're all here because we know lots of freddie grays. amy: a state of emergency has been declared in baltimore and the national guard has been called in after protests erupt after the funeral of 26-year-old -- 25-year-old freddie gray who

died in police custody. he was arrested for running. 80% of his spine was dozens of severed. dozens of people have been arrested, 15 police officers were injured and several businesses have burned down. we will go to baltimore for the latest and speak to the reverend jesse jackson and former baltimore city council president lawrence bell. then to nobel peace prize laureate shirin ebadi here in the hague. for years, shirin ebadi has been of iran's most vocal critics. today she explains why she supports the iran nuclear deal despite being opposed to nuclear power. >> i do not agree with any of the nuclear energy programs. therefore, [indiscernible] but at the same time, a country that does have an atomic bomb cannot judge in this manner

about other countries. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we're on the road at the hague in the netherlands. but first, to maryland. where the governor larry hogan has deployed the national guard in baltimore amid an uprising over the death of freddie gray. gray died a week after a police encounter which his family said left his spine 80% severed at the neck. police stopped him because he made eye contact with a lieutenant, then ran away. two weeks of peaceful protest over gray's death erupted into violence monday as high school students threw bricks and rocks at police, and looting and vandalism were reported across the city. overnight, cars and buildings were burned. police said 15 officers were injured, though all are expected to recover.

at least 27 people were arrested. governor hogan denounced the protesters as "gangs of thugs roaming the streets." >> everybody believes we need to get to the answers and resolve the situation, the concern everyone has about what happened in the freddie gray incident. that is one whole situation. this is an entirely different situation. this is lawless gangs of thugs roaming the streets, causing damage to property and injuring innocent people, and we're not on a tolerate that. amy: following ferguson, this marks the second time in six months the national guard has been called to restore order after protests over police violence. the protests came after freddie gray's funeral was attended by thousands, including maryland, democratic congressmember elijah cummings, a delegation of white white house and the family of , eric garner -- the staten island man who died after a new york city police officer put him in a banned chokehold. billy murphy, an attorney for freddie gray's family, addressed the mourners.

>> most of us are not here because we knew freddie gray. but we're all here because we know lots of freddie grays. amy: we will speak to reverend jesse jackson after headlines. not far from the upheaval in baltimore, loretta lynch was sworn in as the nation's first african-american woman attorney general at a ceremony in washington, d.c. >> is a little girl from north carolina who used to tell her grandfather to f on the back of his mule so she could see way up high granddaddy, can grow up to become the chief law enforcement officer of the united states of america, we can do anything. amy: lynch released a statement on the situation in baltimore, vowing to -- "bring the full resources of the department of justice to bear in protecting those under threat,

investigating wrongdoing, and securing an end to violence." the justice department is investigating freddie gray's death. the prime minister of nepal has warned the death toll from saturday's devastating 7.8-magnitude earthquake could reach 10,000. the toll now stands at over 4,300 and is continuing to climb, with 8,000 injured. while humanitarian aid has begun to reach the capital katmandu, residents of remote villages remain cut off by landslides, as they struggle to bury their dead. entire villages have been flattened. nepal has attempted to air drop supplies while residents complain of a dire need for food and water. unicef spokesperson christophe boulierac said up to 1 million children are in need of aid. >> so far, we think that nearly one million children are affected by the earthquake and

are in need of emergency assistance. usually in the situation such as in haiti and 2010, there are lots of [indiscernible] required for children who are maimed, who lost part of one leg or an arm. typical that we find during situations of earthquake that needs urgent -- amy: in nigeria, hundreds of bodies have been found in the northeastern town of damasak after an apparent massacre by the militant group boko haram. local sources told agence france press the death toll exceeds 400, with bodies found in homes, streets, and the dried-up damasak river. troops from chad and niger retook the town from boko haram last month, discovering an earlier mass grave containing about 100 bodies. in libya, five journalists with

a libyan tv station have been found dead with their throats slit eight months after they went missing. an army commander told reuters the journalists were killed by militants with the self-proclaimed islamic state. a united nations probe has confirmed israeli forces conducted direct attacks on united nations facilities in gaza, killing at least 44 palestinians sheltering at the sites during last summer's assault. the attacks took place despite repeated warnings to israeli forces, which included the gps coordinates of u.n. sites. in one case, the israeli defense forces fired 88 mortar rounds at a u.n. girls' school where 3000 refugees were sleeping, killing up to 18 people including a u.n. , employee and two of his sons. palestinians have vowed to bring -- it also found they hit weapons at three mtu in schools. palestinians have vowed to bring

the findings here to the international criminal court at the hague where they became the newest member earlier this month. the supreme court is hearing arguments today in a historic case that could legalize same-sex marriage across the united states. same-sex couples can now wed in 36 states and washington, d.c. but the case under consideration today could establish the constitutional right to marry for same-sex couples in all 50 states. the plaintiff in the case, jim obergefell, married his long-time partner john arthur in maryland when arthur was dying of als. their home state of ohio has refused to recognize their marriage on arthur's death certificate, a right obergefell said is worth fighting for. >> the state of ohio once nothing more than to take john's last official record as a person and to change it so that it is wrong.

they want to erase the fact that john and i were legally married. they want to erase the official record of our marriage, of me as john's spouse. there is no way i would ever stop fighting for that. amy: in oklahoma, the undersheriff of tulsa county has resigned after a leaked report showed the intimidated staff to protect a reserve deputy and wealthy donor who killed an unarmed african american man earlier this month. the deputy, robert bates claimed he mistook his gun for a taser when he fatally shot eric harris. an internal report from 2009 reveals how bates was permitted to flout policies, patrolling in his own vehicle and conducting traffic stops without adequate training. it found undersheriff tim albin instructed staff to overlook bates' violations, telling a sergeant to -- "stop messing with [bates] because he does a lot of good

for the county." sheriff's officials initially claimed they couldn't find any record of the 2009 probe, but a lawyer for eric harris' family obtained a leaked copy. a judge allowed robert bates to go on a month-long vacation to the bahamas after he pleaded not guilty to second-degree manslaughter. that was in the death of eric harris. in south carolina, two police officers in the town of marion have been sentenced to prison for unnecessarily shocking a disabled woman with a taser at least eight times in 2013. franklin brown, who shocked the victim, melissa davis, while she was handcuffed and not resisting, received an 18-month term, while fellow officer eric walters was sentenced to a year. brown admitted telling fellow officers he shocked davis because he "did not want to touch that nasty [expletive]." a new report by the international business times has

revealed goldman sachs paid former president bill clinton $200,000 to deliver a speech just months before the banking giant began lobbying the state department, then headed by hillary clinton. the report is the latest to raise questions about the clintons' financial ties. on sunday, the clinton foundation acknowledged mistakes in how it reported donations from foreign governments, saying it mistakenly combined the sums with other donations, and would re-file tax returns. and a federal judge has rejected a bid by the food industry to strike down a vermont law which would make the state the first in the country to require labeling of genetically modified foods. the judge rejected a request by industry groups to block the law, but let their lawsuit move forward, paving the way for a trial over the law. meanwhile, the fast-food chain chipotle says it has become the

first national restaurant chain to eliminate gmo foods. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are on the road in the hauge. but we begin today's show in baltimore, maryland where , national guard troops have been deployed following violent protests over the death of freddie gray, the 25-year-old african-american man who died of neck injury suffered in police custody after he was arrested for running. his family has said his spine was 80% severed at the neck. police say they arrested at least people and acknowledged 27 15 police officers were injured. overnight, cars and stores were set on fire, including a cvs and a portion of a historic italian deli that has an in the city since 1908. following ferguson, this marks the second time in six months the national guard has been

called to restore order after police brutality protests. this time, protests erupted in the west baltimore neighborhood where gray was first arrested for making eye contact with a lieutenant and then running away. on monday night, governor hogan declared a state of emergency. today baltimore's public schools , are closed and a curfew is in place from 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. mayor stephanie rawlings-blake addressed the city monday night. >> what we see tonight is very disturbing. it is very clear there is a difference between what we saw over the past week with the peaceful protests. those who wish to seek justice those who wish to be heard and want answers, and the difference between those protests and the thugs, who only want to incite

violence and destroy our city. amy: earlier on monday thousands gathered to pay their respects during freddie gray's funeral, including elijah cummings, the delegation from the white house, the family of eric garner, the staten island man who died after new york city police officer put him in a band chokehold. this is gray family attorney billy murphy. >> most of us are not here because we knew freddie gray but we are all here because we know lots of freddie grays. let's don't get ourselves. we would not be here today if it weren't for a video camera. instead of one cover-up, behind the blue wall, after another cover-up behind that blue wall and one lie after another lie --

[applause] now we see the truth is never before. it is not a pretty picture. amy: baltimore police say they expect to present a report on gray's death to the state's attorney's office by friday. but officials have not said when the report will be made public. six officers involved in his arrest have been suspended with pay. well, for more, we are joined in baltimore by two guests. reverend jesse jackson, civil rights leader, and president and founder of the rainbow/push coalition. he spoke at freddie gray's funeral on monday. and lawrence bell rejoins us former baltimore city council , president and represented west baltimore, which is the area where freddie gray was arrested. welcome both of you back to democracy now! reverend jackson, your reaction

to what took place last night as well as your message in the funeral of freddie gray. >> what happened last that was very disturbing. it was an express of hopelessness and self-destructive violence. it diverts attention away from the real issues. for example 111th killed by a policeman since 2011. not the first one. secondly, that same time unemployment is 30%. 18,000 vacant homes are abandon because banks ran subprime lending and federal lending on people. people got left out. the abounding poverty, most people who have been to prison and come out and can't vote and can get a job because they been a prison. you have this oasis of poverty and pain, and you must decide last night to address the structural crisis in baltimore and urban america period.

amy: lawrence bell, the area that you represented when you were in the city council is the area where freddie gray was arrested. arrested again, according to the lieutenant, she made eye contact with him and he ran away and that was grounds for arresting him. can you talk about this community that you have represented for so long? >> in fact, i was actually born a few blocks away from where the incident occurred. it really touches me personally. i think there has been years of neglect, not only in west baltimore, but all over the inner city of baltimore. and i think the chickens are coming home to roost. this is a tell of two cities. this has been going on for a long time. donnelly be police abuse, which escalated in the early 2000 under the zero-tolerance policy of martin o'malley but the economic balance that has been

committed against the people. you have a lot of young people, many of whom have already been arrested because of mass arrests that have gone on in baltimore city. they see no hope and no way out. they are acting out. unfortunately. we have to wake up and do something. >> amy, we were in church yesterday. we noticed the gangs were coming together and they were going to shoot a police. immediately, there was a panicking move to do a lockdown on the city. that was several schools in the public transportation stopped did not have a way home. you had thousands of kids on the streets with no way to get home because the city with a lockdown worried a policeman get shot, as per station -- chris rotation stop, businesses closed. in that environment, the whole thing exploded. amy: i want to go to maryland governor larry hagan -- hogan. this is just after he announced a state of emergency and activated the national guard to respond to unrest in baltimore.

>> everybody believes we need to get to the answers and resolve the situation, the concern everyone has about what happened in the freddie gray incident. that is one whole situation. this is an entirely different situation. this is lawless gangs of thugs roaming the streets for causing damage to property and injuring innocent people, and we're not going to tolerate that. amy: lawless gangs of thugs. reverend jackson, your response? >> such language does not aid the situation. for example, those people, those bankers who engaged in subprime lending and took those homes and drove them out of middle-class -- what is their name? 111 killings in three years in one area. what do you call those who did the killing when there was no camera? when you look at 30% unemployment, money spent downtown for the new baltimore and pension money and banking

money. so you have, as brother bill says, you have downtown also mean brimming ultimo and then you have the rest of them. we need not engage in name-calling on that matter, but we do know that strategy does not work. we need to look at amy the commission report from 50 years ago. is is river radical racial divide and there must be some remedy, not just reaction. amy: reverend jackson, can you also respond to freddie gray's arrest? this issue -- this is according to the police, that he made eye contact with a lieutenant and ran away. that is what they allege. the attorney for the paternal order of police, the police union, said running in a high crime area is grounds for arrest. >> well, you know, it is interesting enough that police and firemen have the right to work in the city and live in the

suburbs. some live as far away as york pennsylvania. they come in as occupying not neighbors. often, people are afraid of them because they're not taxpaying neighbors whose children go to school with their children. there is this gap between police -- you're to have residence requirements for policemen and firemen. [indiscernible] amy: baltimore orioles chief operating officer john angelos, who is the son of owner peter angelos, took to twitter this weekend to defend the baltimore protests after they were attacked on local sports radio. he wrote -- "my greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night's property damage nor upon the acts, but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an american political elite have shipped middle class and working class

jobs away from baltimore and cities and towns around the u.s. to third-world dictatorships like china and others, plunged tens of millions of good hard-working americans into economic devastation, and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every american's civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state jericho so wrote baltimore orioles chief operating officer john angelos, son of owner peter angelos. reverend jackson? >> you can't get any better than that. yet this commendation of -- you have this commendation of drugs in, jobs out alienation from those who live in a surplus and those who live in the deficit. there are some factors we must

not ignore -- we regret, the street violence last night because one reason is not redemptive. two, it diverts attention from the agenda put on that letter, which we will be discussing. but there's a cause effect relationship. we should do well not to panic in the face of last night. since this is so close to washington my -- why not make this a model for urban reconstruction? >> let me add to what reverend jackson said. back in the 1930's, my grandfather came from north carolina to baltimore with very little education and got a good paying job. like the grandparents of many of those young people out there yesterday, those jobs are dried-up. this is a generation where there are too many people seeking to few jobs in baltimore city. they are disadvantaged. on top of that, and i do agree

with the comments of mr. angelos, people on the street know already what happened to freddie gray. anything that concerns us, if so many people know what happened they know the officer involved and know how he was killed, if they know, why don't the police know? why doesn't the mayor know? why isn't announce sooner? it says something about the priorities in that area, and something really has to change soon. >> it means police -- police are the police. they know who are engaged in violence and excessive force. because police are not telling police, gang bangers not telling gang bangers. the corruption of the relationship between people and pulleys, that relationship must and. amy: this is a clip from a video report by the real news network titled, "a walk through the neighborhood where freddie gray

lived and died," in which reporter stephen janis follows reporter and former prisoner eddie conway and our guest lawrence bell, as they visit a rundown basketball court in the gilmore homes housing project where freddie gray was arrested. >> i have a lot of interest in this community and i'm sad to see how things have gone downhill. >> this week, bill joined eddie conway to talk about politics, crime and punishment, and what needs to happen to improve the city he loves. >> the city has been socially, economically and politically subdued and downtrodden so much the last couple of years that people won't even complain about it anymore. they are afraid. >> a discussion took place against a dilapidated basketball court in west baltimore. left in disrepair by the city for nearly 17 years, conaway has raised money to fix the court but the city has blocked his efforts. >> with a company that a certified that does this, that

is donating some of the stuff. and they're going to be in from the beginning to the end to make sure it is done. >> the city told us the community was divided. the residents we spoke to said they supported fixing it. >> [indiscernible] i iant seen them up, yet. amy: can you talk about the calls for the autopsy report to be released and what more you feel needs to be done? >> the great irony is that walk i did with eddie conway happened just a few days before the incident. >> before. >> right before that happened. we happened to be there and it just underscored what we were talking about. people are very upset. there is a lack of interest in

disability when the people who live in the neighborhood. it has been exacerbated by the situation because we think information needs to come out sooner. people see the shows like "48 hours for their toll within the first two days or so, law enforcement should have an idea of what happened in a homicide. and here we see nearly two weeks after this incident, everybody in the neighborhood and all the people on the streets know. i've talked to people and police officers and is reverend jackson said earlier one of the problems we have and this is something all around the country that needs to be dealt with, even when we have african-american police and even well-intentioned white police officers who see something that goes wrong and they know somebody -- as a matter of fact, in this instance, the primary perpetrator was known to be racist. he was known to be negative in that neighborhood. everybody knew it in the western district. and he still had been there. >> another incidents on tape. >> on tape.

people saw it. they know were -- where the paddy wagon stopped. they beat the man up. all these people know this. why is it taking two weeks to come out with a report, with an autopsy? if this had happened right after the incident and someone was being fired immediately, ok, and people were let go, this would not have escalated to this point. amy: we just have 20 seconds. >> and drought the country. amy: we just have 20 seconds -- >> move quickly. amy: i want to thank you both for being with us, reverend jesse jackson who spoke at freddie gray's funeral yesterday, founder and president of push now. and thank you, lawrence bell, former baltimore city council president and represented west baltimore, which is the area where freddie gray was arrested. when we come back, the nobel

prize winner shirin ebadi the first iranian to win the nobel weighs in on the iran compromise . she is one of the chief critics of the iranian regime, but says the iranian nuclear deal should be supported. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: bob marley & the wailers, "burnin' and lootin'." this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we're continuing our broadcast the hague, where we turn to nobel peace prize winner shirin ebadi. in 2003, she became the first iranian and first muslim woman to win the award for her human rights advocacy in particular for the rights of iranian women, children, and political prisoners. she was the first female judge in iran but she has lived in exile since 2009. shirin ebadi is in the hague this week for a conference marking the 100th anniversary of the international congress of women when over 1,000 women traveled to the hague to call for an end to world war i. the event marked the formation of the women's international league for peace and freedom known as wilpf. well, this week, wilpf has brought together a new

generation of feminist peace activists to the hague for a conference called women stop war. on monday, shirin ebadi spoke at the opening session about the threat posed by the self-proclaimed islamic state. >> we have to remember that isis is not simply a terrorist group. it is an ideology. and an ideology cannot be fought with homes. -- bombs. this wrong ideology can only be fought with a correct interpretation of [indiscernible] had books been thrown at people at the taliban, instead of bombs, and had schools been built in afghanistan, 4000

schools could have been built in memory of the 4000 people who died on 9/11. at this time, we would not have had isis. [applause] let's not forget the roots of the isis rest in the taliban. so let's not repeat the experience that was a loss. i only have a very short time to speak, so i have a specific suggestion for the united nations. i demand the united nations through a convention, encourage all countries to reduce the military budgets by 10% and use it for the education and welfare of the people. [applause]

and i was -- i want to ask the united nations and the western world who throw books at people, you will see we will have a better world in the future. amy: amy: 2003 nobel peace laureate shirin ebadi speaking at the opening of the women's international league for peace and freedom conference here in the hague. on sunday, i interviewed ebadi at a gathering of the nobel peace prize winners, the women winners, at the nobel women's initiative. i began by asking her to talk about the significance of the framework deal agreed to by iran and world powers to curb iran's nuclear program for at least a decade. >> i hope that the negotiations come to a conclusion, because the sanctions have made the people poorer and there's a lot

of economic pressure in iran. of course, the extremists on both sides, both iran and america, do not agree with the agreement. me personally, do not approve of the nuclear program of the government because it is very expensive and also economically, doesn't respond to what we need. we could have spent much less money and invest in solar energy . in general, nuclear energy powers are not good for the environment of iran.

iran is located on an earthquake fault, and we are scared that something like fukushima could happen in iraq. therefore, our national interest is for this agreement to come to a conclusion and we can benefit from the results. amy: these really pray minister in german and yahoo! says -- these really pray minister says this is a dream for iran but a nightmare for the rest of the world. your reaction? >> as i said earlier, in general, i do not agree with any of the nuclear energy programs. therefore, it has to stop as soon as possible but at the same time, a country that does have

an atomic bomb cannot judge in this manner about other countries. talks benjamin netanyahu says this will lead to a nuclear arms race in the middle east. >> it can and it may result in a nuclear race, but who started it in the middle east? which country in the middle east had the first bomb in the region? i think the answer to this question is easy. amy: because of the pressure being put on president obama around the nuclear deal, he says part of the deal will be a phase-lifting of sanctions.

>> laws in america, also the type of the sanctions, do not provide that the sanctions be lifted at one time. it is very natural that it has to be done in phases. however, it shouldn't take a long time. sanctions have resulted in people becoming poorer, of course. the economic policy of the government and the corruption that exists and also the fact the government is not transparent, hurts people as

much as the sanctions. in reality, it is not only sanctions that hurt the people but also lack of transparency, corruption and a wrong economic program the government has made the people poorer. amy: dr. shirin ebadi, you're living in exile. your husband has been arrested by the government. your sister has been arrested. all of this since you won the nobel peace prize. what do you say to those who criticize the deal saying it will strengthen the iranian government? >> i do criticize the government of iran, but it is on the basis of violations of human rights and also the corruption that

exists in the country. where it went the united states [indiscernible] due to the fact they are scared that the government of iran becomes atomic and becomes closer and there is a difference between my criticism of the government and the criticism of the united states. this means those who criticize the government of iran and america -- in america do not bring up the violations of human rights. it doesn't look like it is important for them. we see they are close friends of saudi arabia, which has the most violations of human rights in the middle east. amy: what is your criticism of the rouhani government?

how does it compare to ahmadinejad? >> rouhani smiles more than ahmadinejad. that's it. because pursuant to the constitution, all of the power belongs to the leader and the president's power is limited. after rouhani came to power, we haven't seen any change. the situation of human rights has not gotten any better. if there talking to america now -- they are talking to america now, it is because the leader has had to permit such

negotiations. amy: what about the number of arrest women's rights in iran how women are able to express themselves under the rouhani government? >> unfortunately, the situation of women has not been improved under rouhani. it's university have come to the solution of separating girls and boys. musical concerts, women cannot play instruments any longer. something they could do in the past. political prisoners are still in prison.

mr. rouhani have promised those who have not been tried but her under house arrest would be released. but up till now, he is not been able to do that. and doesn't even speak about it. amy: both influential iranian politicians who ran against ahmadinejad for president. >> mesabi was a nominee in 2009. however, since he had disagreements with khamenei, he is been under house arrest. rouhani promised that he would release him, but not only he is not releasing, since he has come

to power, he hasn't even talked about it publicly. hasn't said anything about it. amy: a want to ask her opinion of the foreign ministry spokesperson. it is believed she will become iran's first female ambassador since the 1979 iranian revolution. >> there is a proverb we say come up with one flower, you don't get spring. -- we say, with one flower, you don't get spring. comparing her to all of the women who have been made to sit at home, having a woman who was politically very close to the government, does not change much.

you know very well pursuant to the district of the government unemployment in iran -- as it is among men. the number of university students -- if we look at this, prove that 60% -- this means women in iran are better educated, but they are unemployed. and in order to prove to the world that we respect women they use one woman, for example, as an ambassador -- which is a good thing to do, but it shouldn't be limited to one

person. it should be expanded. amy: we continue our interview with the 2003 nobel peace laureate shirin ebadi in 30 seconds. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are on the road in the hague netherlands, as we returned to my interview with 2003 nobel peace laureate shirin ebadi. your assessment of isis come to supper claimed islamic state and

its growth in power. >> isis is not only a terrorist group, it is a wrong ideology. using the wrong interpretation of islam, they kill people, they raped women, they sell women. and in order to fight isis, a coalition of 40 countries under the leadership of the u.s. which longs these people -- bombs these people a few times a day, but this is not going to work.

because we cannot put an end to ideology using a bomb. it is a wrong ideology which can be fought with a correct ideology. instead of bombs books should be thrown at them. amy: has president obama asked your opinion on what should be done? and what would you advise him? >> i would tell him, instead of bombs, trying to build -- try to build schools, throw books at people try to fight the corruption that exists in the region where they are at, then you will see isis will gradually

go away. amy: when were you last in iran, dr. ebadi? >> exactly on june 21, 2009, i left iran. i left if you hours prior to the elections, presidential elections in iraq. the election that resulted in the killing of people on the streets. and as a result, the two were put under house arrest and i couldn't go back. and since i was not in iran to be arrested, my husband and my sister were arrested. they were hoping that by keeping

them as hostages, i would be silenced, but i wasn't. then the government decided to expropriate all of my property and auction them off. unfortunately, a number of my colleagues are still in prison. but i'm glad to say that i did not even close down for an hour. and my friends in iran continue their work. amy: when you say not close down even for an hour, your organization works for women and girls? >> yes. of course, prior to that, i used

to do it publicly. but now i have gone underground because i don't want my colleagues to get into trouble. amy: and your husband and sister, where are they now? >> of course, they were set free after a wild because the government found out that i would not become silenced anyway. under the pressure of public opinion and international organizations, set them free because they were really innocent. and they were not my colleagues at all. the each other own business. amy: have you seen them since 2009? >> i have seen my husband once and my sister once. amy: could they leave the country if they wanted to? >> each of them have been able to leave once. amy: how does that affect you

personally? your senior husband, what come only once in six years? -- you have seen your husband, what, only once in six years? >> naturally, the life i am living is not a comfortable life but this is the price we have to pay for freedom in iraq. i am not the only one paying this price. my colleagues in prison are paying a higher price. amy: so just to be clear, dr. ebadi, you are a target of the iranian government, yet when it comes to sanctions in the nuclear deal, you are for lifting the sanctions, right? >> yes because if the negotiations do not come to conclusion, the me sanctions

will continue -- then the sanctions will continue and they make it worse. and it may result in hurting the people more and more. all of my endeavors in life if my people were to live a better life. >> do you trust the iranian government? >> never. amy: that is the reason opponents give for not supporting a deal with iran. >> in the agreement, it has been provided that if the government of iran breaches the agreement they can return the embargoes in the sanctions easily. amy: i have asked you to share

your advice he would give to president obama, what you would say to opponents of a nuclear deal with iran. what about what you would say to peace activists around the world? >> peace activists should, in reality, work for justice and also they should work on holding governments responsible. for example, when we look at, like, the middle east region, we see that it is on fire. why?

because of a bunch of dictators that have been there for numerous years. they violate human rights, they were corrupt, they didn't let civil society grow, and people became poorer every day. and unfortunately, the world closed its eyes on them. one day, people became tired and through -- dictators. but civil society has not been formed. there is anarchy and resulted in

the whole region being on fire now. and unfortunately people have two bad options. they either have to put up with a dictator or anarchy and insecurity. they are both bad. we should let it get to this point -- we shouldn't let it get to this point. that people have two bad options. look at syria. the al-assad family has ruled there over 40 years. the situation is such that some people think that if assad leave s, isis will take over. and so people don't know whether

to choose between isis or assad who has killed all these people. therefore, when i talked to peace activists, what i say is, don't let countries get to this stage where they are on fire and then try to put the fire out. we shouldn't let fire to grow. we have to come to a conclusion to provide for the infrastructure. in medicine, we say it is better to prevent name to treat. -- better to prevent than to treat. same here. amy: we're living in very valid

times. u.s. is in baltimore the longest war in history in afghanistan. and you have the wars in iraq and syria and yemen and libya. can you share your advice to the world as a nobel peace laureate, as a woman? >> my advice is what they want for the own people, for the people of these countries as well. these countries have been obliterated because big corporation become -- one to become wealthier, so they can sell art therefore, my advice is treat the people of

afghanistan the same as you treat your own people. look at iraqi children the same as you look at your own children. then you will see the solution is there. amy: dr. shirin ebadi, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. amy: iranian human rights attorney shirin ebadi, won the nobel peace prize in 2003 becoming the first iranian and first muslim woman to win the nobel peace prize. shirin ebadi is in the hague this week at the women's international league for peace and freedom centennial conference in the nobel women's initiative. you can visit our website to see yesterday's interview with three other nobel peace laureates. that does it for our show. a special thanks to -- our team at the hague. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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