05/11/15 05/11/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> we believe the actions taken today by the state's attorney are in egregious rush to judgment and we have grave concerns about the fairness, integrity of our officers. >> i don't see a conflict of interest. my husband is a public servant on the legislative side. i am a public servant. i uphold the law. amy: after the state's attorney

of baltimore charges six police officers with the death of freddie gray, lawyers of the police union filed a defense motion calling the charges to be dismissed and mosby to be removed. their action came on the same day as the justice department announced yet another investigation into baltimore police. the first, to immigrants fleeing libya. >> [indiscernible] will magically stop. we ask there is an action that puts the human being in the center and stop labeling them as illegal. amy: expected to ask the wood secured a counsel to permit military action against human traffickers out of libya, we will look at a new report by mr. turner national called "libya is , full of cruelty: stories of abduction, sexual violence and abuse from migrants and

refugees." all of that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a new report says the obama administration gave a false account of the hunting and killing of osama bin laden. bin laden was shot dead four years ago this month in a u.s. raid on his hideout in the city of abbottabad. the white house claimed at the time the u.s. operatives entered from afghanistan without pakistan's knowledge. but investigative reporter seymour hersh says top pakistani military leaders knew about the operation and provided key assistance. the u.s. also claimed it helped locate bin laden by tracking his personal messenger. but hersh reports a former pakistani intelligence officer identified his whereabouts in return for the bulk of a $25 million u.s. bounty. pakistani intelligence was reportedly aware of bin laden's

location and held him prisoner at the abbottabad compound since 2006. hersh's article also questions the u.s. account of bin laden's shooting, saying there was never a firefight inside the compound and that bin laden himself wasn't armed. a retired american official says u.s. claims of finding a trove of information from bin laden's computers and documents was a hoax to give the false impression he was still operationally important. questions are also raised about whether bin laden was actually buried at sea, as the u.s. claimed. a five-day ceasefire is set begin in yemen on tuesday after houthi rebels accepted a proposal from saudi arabia. the saudi government offered the truce last week amid mounting criticism that its military campaign and blockade of yemen has caused massive civilian suffering. saudi foreign minister adel al-jubeir said the pause could be renewed if it lasts the first round. >> we announced that we were

looking at a five-day cease-fire in yemen for humanitarian purposes in order to allow the flow of assistance to yemen. we have made a decision the cease-fire will begin this tuesday may 12 at 11:00 p.m. and will last for five days and subject to renewal if it works out. amy: the houthis say they hope the pause will lead to political talks under the guidance of the united nations. the saudi-led coalition has escalated air strikes before the truce takes effect, bombing the compound of the houthi-allied former president ali abdullah saleh in the capital sanaa. the attack came just after the saudi government declared the province of saada a military zone and ordered all its residents to flee. in a statement, the u.n.'s humanitarian coordinator warned the threat to saada could be "a contravention of international humanitarian law" that has "put countless civilians at risk." saudi arabia meanwhile has

announced its new leader, king salman, will skip a key meeting of gulf nations hosted by president obama this week. obama had called the summit in a bid to address the concerns of middle east allies over the proposed iran nuclear deal. the white house had said king salman would be attending. but in what is being as a -- described as a message of protest over the iran talks, saudi arabia said sunday it would be sending lower-level officials. the justice department has launched a probe of the baltimore police department for a potential pattern of unconstitutional policing in the wake of the death of freddie gray. attorney general loretta lynch announced the investigation. >> today the department of justice is opening an investigation into whether the baltimore police department has engaged in a pattern or practice of violations of the constitution or federal law. this investigation will begin immediately and will focus on allegations of baltimore police department officers used

excessive force, including deadly force conduct unlawful searches, seizures, and arrest, and engage in discriminatory policing. amy: the justice department probe comes as attorneys for the six officers indicted over freddie gray's death are challenging the role of baltimore's top prosecutor marilyn mosby. on friday, defense lawyers filed a motion demanding mosby recuse herself because of alleged conflicts of interest and "egregious" violations. moby has rejected those calls and vowed to remain on the case. we will speak with attorney douglas colbert later in the broadcasting. the u.s. has said it needs to do more to attack police brutality and racism. speaking to the united nations human rights council today in geneva an official in the justice department's civil rights division said the deaths of freddie gray, eric garner, walter scott, and several others have "challenged us to do better

and to work harder for progress." he added "we must rededicate ourselves to ensuring that our civil rights laws live up to their promise." the senate is poised to hold a key procedural vote on a measure that would give president obama fast-track authority to negotiate the transpacific partnership, or tpp. the 12-nation pact would encompass 40% of the global economy and is being negotiated in secret. critics say the deal would hurt workers, undermine regulations and expand corporate power. , speaking to yahoo news president obama rejected democratic criticism of the tpp, including a warning from senator elizabeth warren that it could roll back financial regulations. >> inc. about the logic of that, the notion that i had this massive fight with wall street to make sure we don't repeat what happened 2007 and 2008 and then i find a provision that would unravel it? i would have to be pretty

stupid. and it doesn't make any sense. elizabeth is a politician like everybody else and she has a voice she wants to get out there. i understand that. and almost issues, she and i deeply agree. on this one, though, her arguments don't stand the test of fact and scrutiny. amy: in her criticism, warren singled out the proposed investor-state dispute settlement, or isds. the process would allow foreign corporations to challenge countries' key regulations before an international tribunal. if obama is granted fast-track authority, congress would be able to accept or reject the tpp but not make any changes. the ebola outbreak in liberia has officially been declared over. the world health organization says liberia has gone 42 days without a new ebola case, the threshold for deeming the outbreak at an end. war than 4700 people were killed

in liberia the most of any , country. some 300 to new cases were being 400 reported each week during the outbreak's peak last year. the two other countries worst hit by the outbreak, guinea and sierra leonne, continue to report new cases, but at their lowest levels this year so far. rival militias in the central african republic have reached a peace deal with the government after two years of fighting. the country has faced a crisis since march 2013 when muslim séléka rebels seized power sparking a backlash from christian armed groups. thousands have died and nearly a million have been displaced. the peace accord calls on the 10 main militias to disarm, integrate into the military, and potentially face charges of war crimes. president obama was greeted with protests against the proposed keystone xl pipeline on friday during a visit to south dakota. a member of the cowboy and indian alliance said activists were heeding obama's call on americans to engage in politics. >> i think it is us enforcing our rights as our freedom of

speech and be able to address the president. he made a statement encouraging people to seek change and to address it head on. amy: president obama has delayed a final decision on the keystone xl multiple times during his presidency. there are now reports he will wait until after canada's federal election in october so as not to be seen as interfering in canadian politics. canadian prime minister stephen harper has urged obama to approve the pipeline. leaked documents from edward snowden show the u.s. government labeled an al jazeera journalist a member of al qaeda. according to the intercept ahmad muaffaq zaidan was put on a watch list of suspected terrorists in 2012. zaidan has spent years reporting on al qaeda and the taliban, and has interviewed several top figures including osama bin laden. in a statement, zaidan dismissed the u.s. claims, saying -- "to assert that myself, or any journalist, has any affiliation with any group on account of their contact book, phone call logs, or sources is an absurd distortion of the truth and a complete violation of the profession of journalism."

four people have been arrested in mississippi for the murder of two police officers. the victims were shot dead during a traffic stop on saturday. two of the suspects are charged with capital murder. it all took place in hattiesburg, mississippi. extreme weather has brought severe thunderstorms to several u.s. states. at least two people have been killed in a storm in arkansas while more than two dozen have been wounded the texas town of van. tornadoes hit other states as well. former president bill clinton has acknowledged polices under his watch have led to over-incarceration. speaking to cnn, clinton admitted faults with his 1994 crime bill, which imposed harsher sentences for drug offenses and expanded the number of prisons and police. >> the problem is, the way we have written and implemented it,

we have too many people in prison. and we wound up putting so many people in prison that there wasn't enough money left to educate them, train them for new jobs and increase the chances when they came out so they could live productive lives. i strongly support what she is doing and i think any policy that was adopted when i was president and federal law that contributed to it should be changed. amy: bill clinton's comments come after hillary clinton criticized mass incarceration and called for drug sentencing reform in a speech last month, her first major address since announcing her presidential campaign. new york governor andrew cuomo has ordered emergency measures to protect workers in the state's nail salons, following a "new york times" expose on the widespread exploitation of manicurists, many of whom have developed illnesses linked to chemicals in nail products. "the times" investigation found manicurists in new york routinely work without wages or are forced to pay fees in order to work, toiling for shifts of 10 to 12 hours a day, six or

seven days a week, for far below the minimum wage. they suffer from miscarriages, cancer, and respiratory and skin ailments. in response to the report, new york governor cuomo announced a new task force to investigate nail salons, institute new rules to protect workers from chemicals and educate workers about their rights. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. today the european union is expected to ask the united nations security council to permit military action against human traffickers operating out of libya. the u.n. estimates more than 60,000 people have already tried to cross the mediterranean from libya into europe this year. over 1800 migrants have died in the attempt, 20 times more than the same period last year. britain is drafting the resolution that would authorize the mission and today the eu's chief foreign and security policy coordinator federica mogherini will brief the security council on plans for a chapter seven resolution authorizing the use of force.

meanwhile, the european commission is due to make a proposal that member countries take in refugees under an eu quota system. the european commission's migration policy will also propose organizing legal means for migrants to come to europe so they don't turn to traffickers. this policy is expected to be announced wednesday. germany is one of the main country's backing quotas. this is german chancellor angela merkel. >> there are countries which are interested in taking in refugees and which find it right will stop germany is among them and so is italy france, greece, sweden, and malta. so there's a large group of countries and then there are other countries which may be don't see this -- is this it is urgency, arguing for voluntary basis. but i'm convinced it will become clear that especially with the countries confronted with refugees from the mediterranean that there will be no alternative to european solidarity to get to a solution.

amy: this comes as a report released today by amnesty international reveals how migrants are forced to flee libya because of "horrific abuse." the report is based on interviews with refugees and migrants across libya who face -- "rape, torture and abductions for ransom by traffickers and smugglers, as well as systematic exploitation by their employers, religious persecution and other abuses by armed groups and criminal gangs." it also finds conditions in libya migrant detention centers inhumane. as one of the syrian families interviewed said -- "we were facing death in libya so we thought we might as well , face death in trying to get to italy." well, for more, we go to london to talk to the author of the amnesty report titled, "libya is full of cruelty: stories of abduction, sexual violence and abuse from migrants and refugees." magda mughrabi is a libya researcher at amnesty international. welcome to democracy now! talk about what you have found. >> good morning.

well indeed, the 17 tribute we conducted with refugees and migrants from all over sub-saharan africa, from countries like nigeria but also people who come to libya in order to find better opportunities or indeed those fleeing conflict and persecution in their countries, and their countries of origin like somalia, sudan and syrians as well as that these people face widespread abuses at every single stage of their stay in libya or along the smuggling routes while trying to get into libya to then seek a better life. for the past two years, it was to find better opportunities in libya. but now as the conflict -- the several interconnected armed

conflicts taking place in libya continue and the country is sent into further lawlessness, they find themselves more and more at risk of abuse so then they decide to put their lives in the hands of smugglers and then continue the journey to europe in order to find safety there. so the cases we have documented include, for instance, smugglers keeping groups of migrants and refugees in the deserts for several days of joe month in certain cases where there are not given sufficient quantities of food and water, forced to sleep outside without a blanket and a mattress. all of this in order to force them and their families into paying a ransom. we have cases where women, for

instance, were subjected to sexual violence by the smugglers were coerced into sex in order to be able to continue their journey. so that is kind of the welcome to libya, if you will. then along the smuggling route once they get into major hubs along the way and the different migration routes, they may be handed over to criminal -- organized, no groups am at which appear to be transnational in nature. where again, they can be held for days or up to six months in some cases in order to coerce their families into paying a ransom. amy: where did they come from and why are they going to libya? >> so as i said, they come from a variety of countries in west africa say, from senegal mali

from nigeria, but also the horn of africa as well -- somalia sudan as well as syria in some cases. every migrant a refugee has a different story. in some cases, it is really an order -- for the past two years for many, many years even undercut off feet, libya was reliant upon migrant workers. some fled in the 2011 conflict in some state. others came back when things appeared to be on track with the first legislative elections and there was a form of calm in 2012. but others them and then these people are now leaving. but there are others that are coming from countries which are conflict ridden where they face persecution such as -- as well

as syria where they do not have -- without, you know neighboring countries to syria able to absorb such a huge number of refugees, there hoping to apply for asylum in europe and therefore, they do come to libya. they used to fly into algeria and then be smuggled from algeria into libya sometimes tunisia, he to then board -- to then board the boats. in some cases, the syrians have been there for a number of years . both to establish migrant communities and new communities using libya as a transit point in order to seek safety are better opportunities in europe. amy: magda mughrabi, the european union is expected to ask the united nations security council to permit military action against human traffickers operating out of libya.

what would this mean? are you concerned about this? >> yes, i mean, the proposed plans are very concerning as they were outlined in the european council's statement april 23. one of the measures proposed by the european union is to take systematic action or to systematically capture destroy identify vessels before they are used by smugglers. this is concerning for number of reasons. for one, military action appears to be disproportionate for law enforcement issues in tackling smuggling, which is, in some cases, involved in criminal activities should be done through law-enforcement rather than the use of force. it could be -- it is unclear at this stage how 2:00 p.m. does

european union or any countries taking part in such action would differentiate between fishing boats and smugglers boats and any boat could be really used and targeted against that in such a policy. and also fails to distinguish between smugglers and traffickers, which our understanding is whereas people, migrants and refugees, are abused and trafficked in some cases as explained, especially along the migration routes from the south to the north, and the vast majority of cases that we have documented, the smuggling -- they depart or use the boats by smugglers after having paid them. while they may be trafficked in some cases, and the majority of cases, it is a perpetual agreement, consensual.

it is true that smugglers do expose people to the risk -- to risks at sea by overcrowding these boats, by not providing lifejackets and so on, and so it results in major tragedies like the tragedy that we saw a couple of weeks back. but that being said, also them at the moment with neighboring countries having closed their borders and impose more stringent visa requirements or travel requirements for third country nationals, migrants refugees, people who do not have passports because they were confiscated by them either in immigration detention centers in libya or stolen from them by criminal groups or, you know, militias, they do not meet the visa requirements and a can't flee libya so they effectively

-- their only way out is really by boat [captioning made possible by democracy now!] so capturing or destroying these boats before they are being used , that can be actually concerning an hour call would be for any such actions against smugglers to go through law-enforcement govern by human rights law and also not to lead to any -- migrants and refugees being trapped in libya i taking away from them one of the only means they have or the only means for that matter to flee conflict in libya. amy: on sunday, a "new york times" editorial urged against a military response to the migrant crisis, saying -- "military intervention would be a grave mistake. it could sabotage negotiations for a power-sharing deal between libya's warring factions, thus killing chances of a political solution to the chaos in libya.

it is, in fact, a cynical strategy, born of europe's panic over a tide of foreign migrants." do you agree with this? >> i mean, yes, as "the new york times" has pointed out, there are the united nation currently sponsoring a political dialogue process between different warring factions. there are number of different tracks that are engaged. there was hope there may be a political agreement -- libya's conflict is extremely complicated. one needs to have that in mind. libyans are extremely wary of any foreign intervention, even the so-called internationally recognized with internationally recognized government. it could have a potential to derail that process.

an hour call would be -- and our call would be to address human rights violations answers violations of international manager law that are being perpetrated in libya at this stage in the context of the current conflict through the political dialogue rather than the use of military force. there is obviously that risk. as i said, it is extremely concerning, these measures. amy: magda mughrabi, thank you for being with us amnesty , international's libya researcher and the main author of their new report, "libya is full of cruelty: stories of abduction, sexual violence and abuse from migrants and refugees." this is democracy now! when we come back we go to baltimore. the police union, the attorneys for the police charged in the death of freddie gray are calling for the recusal or removal of the chief prosecutor, the state's attorney for baltimore. stay with us.

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>> amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now to baltimore with the justice department has launched a probe of the city's police department for potential pattern of unconstitutional policing in the wake of the death of freddie gray. attorney general loretta lynch announced the investigation. >> today the department of justice is opening an investigation into whether the baltimore police department has engaged in a pattern or practice of violations of the constitution or federal law. this investigation will begin immediately and will focus on allegations that baltimore police department officers used excessive force, including deadly force, conduct unlawful searches seizures, and arrests and engage in discriminatory policing.

amy: the justice department probe comes as attorneys for the six officers indicted over freddie gray's death are challenging the role of baltimore's top prosecutor marilyn mosby. almost immediately after the charges were announced earlier this month, the attorney for baltimore's police union reacted by questioning the fairness of their prosecution. >> no officer injured mr. gray caused harm to mr. gray, and they're truly saddened by his death. these officers did nothing wrong. we believe the actions taken today of the state's attorney are in egregious rush to judgment and we have grave concerns about the fairness and integrity of the prosecution of our officers. amy: on friday, attorneys for the six baltimore officer's charge for the death of freddie gray filed a motion demanding that marilyn mosby, the chief prosecutor in the high-profile case, recuse herself from the high-profile case because of alleged conflicts of interest. the wide-ranging attack on mosby's credibility spans more

than 100 pages and accuses her of egregiously violating prosecutorial ethics. according to the defense's motion, mosby's judgment is compromised by her close relationship with the gray family's attorney and her husband's job as a city council member from the district where gray was arrested. the motion goes on to accuse mosby of quelling the baltimore riots by offering cops up to the masses as scapegoats. it calls for the case to be dismissed, and if not, for a special prosecutor to be appointed. speaking on msnbc, mosby rejected such calls and denied there's any conflict of interest. >> when you a special prosecutor, where is the accountability? someone politically is going to appoint someone else. constituents of baltimore city elected me to exercise my discretion and to apply justice fairly and equally with or without a badge with reference to a conflict of interest, there is no conflict of interest. my husband represents the district in which i live. i'm the baltimore city state's

attorney. i represent his district and 13 other districts throughout the city. the prosecutor crimes there. i don't have to turn on the news and open up the newspaper in order to see the crime impacting my community. all i have to do is open of the door. there is no conflict. amy: that was baltimore top -- state attorney marilyn mosby, speaking on msnbc. when she announced the charges she was asked in the news conference afterwards if she had a conflict of interest because her husband is a baltimore city councilmember. this was her response. >> i don't see an appearance of conflict of interest. my husband is a public servant and works on the legislative side. i am also a public servant and i uphold the law. he makes the law. i will prosecute any case within my jurisdiction. amy: marilyn mosby is the youngest state's attorney of any major city in the united states. all of this comes as each of the six officers charged in freddie

gray's death are demanding over $75,000 in damages for their "loss of freedom and midi" as well as physical and psychological harm. well, for more, we go now to baltimore where we're joined by doug colbert. he is a professor of law at the university of maryland school of law and the director of the access to justice pre-trial clinic. he is also the founder of the lawyers at bail project, which represents more than 4000 indigent defendants at bail hearings. in 2013, colbert helped win a seven-year class action suit that guaranteed indigent defendants their constitutional right to counsel when first appearing before a judicial officer. doug colbert, welcome to democracy now! can you talk about the attack on marilyn mosby, the call for her to recuse herself or to be removed? >> yes, amy. let me begin by saying how unusual it is, unusual it is for

local prosecutor to bring criminal charges against police officers in the line of duty for crimes against citizens. and particularly, for homicide crimes. police officers are accustomed to the local prosecutor finding their actions justified or otherwise finding insufficient evidence to charge a crime. and that explains why nationally 98% to 99% of police killings result in no charges being filed at all, no indictment, no, no proceedings. our prosecutor here in baltimore city has taken a different tact and she ought to be recognized and applauded for creating an independent investigation, independent of the police, one of which she has assigned specific prosecuting attorneys to examine the evidence, to

gather the facts. and based upon their findings ms. mosby in her office charged the police officers with various crimes. and no doubt they came as a real surprise to the police. what we're looking at here is a situation where she has made a very good start in bringing charges, that she is a long way to go before a grand jury finds sufficient proof to formally accuse the officers. and then, of course, to ever bring this case to trial requires a whole different burden of proof. what is important, amy, is the print -- criminal law says go forward and there are consistent attempts here to derail the prosecution, to undermine public confidence.

and at the same time, to influence the people who will one day be sitting as jurors, whether it is grand jury or trial jury. amy: i want to go to a quote in "the baltimore sun." several officers recently told the paper that they're concerned crime will spike since officers are now reportedly hesitant to do their jobs. lieutenant kenneth butler, president of baltimore's african-american police group vanguard justice society, told the paper -- "i'm hearing it from guys who were go-getters, who would go out here and get the guns and the bad guys and drugs. they're hands-off now...i've never seen so many dejected faces. policing, as we once knew it, has changed." are we talking about a kind of silent strike the officers are going on now, doug colbert? >> well, first of all, many of us hope that police practices will change in the future and that this is the beginning of a

new and improved relationship between police and community. i think this is just another effort to float the most serious trial balloon or to try to convince the public that these charges should not be brought to trial. when the police make an implicit threat or suggestion, at least that they may not be able to protect the safety of the community, we have to see it as an appeal to those who usually expect the police to come to their assistance. and i think this is just another example of trying to appeal to the white community, to the wealthy community asking for their support, asking for them to justify police action.

we don't know the facts yet amy, and that is the most important thing. none of us do. so while the pundits may find it interesting to speculate, in many ways, it is a responsible to be thinking about what the evidence is that only ms. mosby knows. and let's keep in mind, there have been so many different efforts already to influence public opinion and show not to be accurate. in the beginning there were newspaper reports that freddie gray self-inflicted his own injury, his own nearly broken neck. that there was a pre-existing injury. it had nothing at all to do it had something to do it lead paint poisoning. but there again, there was an effort. there are other situations where the police are now calling from day one for a special prosecutor. well, as recently as this past session in annapolis, the police

union strongly opposed an independent prosecutor. i think they were really surprised and stunned that ms. mosby decided to conduct an independent prosecution. and now they're leveling a series of personal attacks against her, her office. one of our top journalists and investigative reporters -- all with the idea of trying to undermine, if not actually derail this prosecution. amy: how unusual is it for the police, who are charged to be demanding $75,000, i think it was, a piece from the government before trial for the sort of pain and suffering that has been inflicted on them? >> well, it is very and usual. the defense motion to recuse ms.

mosby, to ask for the dismissal of charges before the prosecution has even had its day in court is extremely surprising. and one could see it as another effort to communicate a message to the public -- at least, to that part of the public the police feel will stand by their actions -- without allowing the truth to be reached. and that is what is most important here. if we're going to regain the confidence of the entire community to believe in a fair process, we have to learn the facts. we have to give the prosecution the opportunity to present evidence. and that is something that is really in jeopardy here. and i think the idea of suing -- of the police suing the city when they and their lawyers are fully aware of the immunity that

a prosecutor holds in the performance of their duty, is just another attempt to influence the public opinion and make it more difficult to move the prosecution forward. amy: all six officers charged in gray's death have posted bonds of $250,000 to$350,000. meanwhile, alan bullock, one of the 18-year-olds who turned himself in for participating in riots, faced a bond of half a million. his stepfather maurice hawkins and mother bobbi smallwood reacted to the amount in an interview with the guardian. >> that is my son on top of the police car hitting the window. we don't condone that. we believe in peace. i just want justice to be held and not to be, you know, him looked at as a career criminal or a thug. talks my son is not an evil

child. he is not something that would just go around in her people. he was really upset about the police just walking free. they gave my son half $1 million bail and the police got nothing? nothing for murder? that is crazy. >> that is not justice. >> that is not fair. amy: they were speaking before the officers were charged. other protesters in baltimore have seen their bonds set as high as $100,000 for disorderly conduct. some say they were held without food for over 18 hours. can you comment on this, doug colbert? >> well, first of all, it is very important that the six officers, like every defendant receives a fair trial. and have already received extremely fail -- fair process that doesn't usually happen to people who are not police officers. so for instance, when you are

charged with murder in the homicide crimes, and other serious crimes in the death of another person, bail is usually denied that individual. these officers received a bail they could afford, that the police union could afford, and they are now free pending trial. that does not take place for the overwhelming majority of people who are being held and baltimore's jails and maryland jails. they will stay in jail anywhere from six months to 18 months and longer sometimes. the police also interprocess from arrest to the bail setting that took only a few hours. protesters last week were held from extended period of at least 48 hours. they were in crowded cells. many of them, more than 100, never had charges filed against them, but they did live through

a period that, frankly, they will never forget because the conditions inside the jail were really of warrant -- a pouring. the issue about bail is a very important one. it is one that my law students and some pro bono lawyers and organizations have really tried to change the system that for over 220 years denied poor people and low-income working people of their right to a lawyer when there freedom was first test date. up until 2013, people did not have a lawyer at their first appearance. and our lawsuit changed that. and now after 222 years, people have a lawyer at the beginning. but we also rely on money to decide the issue of freedom before trial or incarceration.

and, obviously, that benefits an accused person who has money and it keeps many, many people in jail on the most minor charges. and those are the charges that my law students have been able to get people out of jail as well as a group called the lawyers at bail project. so what we're seeing is an attempt to reform the pretrial justice system. the governor's commission on pretrial justice this past december recommended the elimination of money bail because of how it discriminates against those who don't have economic resources and privileges those who do, and at the same time, the governor's commission called for the elimination of bail bondsman. and bill bondsman and insurance companies make enormous profits.

. the only way people get out of jail is by paying a 10% nonrefundable fee. generating close to $150 million in fees. what is it depend on how much money you have? if someone is a danger or risk to the public, that person shouldn't be held in jail. most people do not represent a risk. and most people should get the benefit of the presumption of innocence. but at the same time, they're not a flight risk or significant flight risk, so there are other ways of monitoring people until their trial and those are all the reforms that we would like to see. in addition to clearing up the very serious problem of

outstanding warts which go back 20, 30 years and people are afraid to be on the street because they did not pay a fine or the same kinds of things that we've seen in ferguson and other parts of the country, those warrants really ought to be taken off the books. people should have a chance to return voluntarily and clear of these matters, which are almost always to nonviolent crimes. amy: doug colbert, the issue that the fraternal order of police raised, one of the representatives and the news conference a few weeks ago saying that because freddie gray was in a high crime area, running is something like probable cause for arrest, reason to arrest someone. what he is talking about? and can you comment on the fact that freddie gray ran away or was running down the street? they said he made eye contact with the police you tenet --

police and then was running. >> running by itself does not give the police officer reasonable suspicion to believe the crime occurred. and that is what is needed in order to have chased and apprehended mr. gray. there is a supreme court ruling which indicates that an unprovoked running combined with being in an area where there is drug trafficking and in the case you're referring to for police -- four police cars drove up on an open-air drug market and saw great deal of drugs and it gave police reasonable suspicion to believe the man was running because he was either engaged in drug trafficking or other criminal activity. and freddie gray situation, it is hard for most people, particularly people from the white community whose contacts

with the police is much different than people and communities where the police have a true every day presents -- precensence. most of us grew up seeking out police for assistance. when freddie gray was supposed to have runaway, we don't know what provoked that. we don't all law lot of things that happened -- of a lot of things that happened that day. we're still trying to figure out how mr. gray received injuries that apparently he did, from the video that is been played over and over again. we don't know what the police role was in the arrest, the apprehension in taking him down and, apparently, handcuffing him , being on his back. i would expect that mr. gray and these police officers were familiar to one another.

and mr. gray had good reason not to want to have another encounter with officers because of their reputation, because the fear he may have been subject to different type of violence -- certainly, not one that would have taken his life. but the fact is, the experience and the black community in the white community could not be more different among most people. and that doesn't mean there aren't many good police officers who are there trying to establish a much better relationship -- and that is always the hope. that is all was the optimism is that out of this tragedy will come a much better relationship with -- where the police will engage in a different type of policing, where judges will not use bail to punish, to keep people in jail when it is not

necessary, and where we have so many people arrested -- we have about -- if we take 100 arrests there's only 35 to 40 people who ultimately are convicted of crime. that is throughout the state of maryland. that means about 50% of the people are being charged with crimes that are not resulting in convictions. many of those are in jail. and when they are in jail, they lose jobs, they lose their home, and they're separated from family. we can do so much better. amy: and the issue also raised by the fraternal order of police that the police are entitled to their constitutional rights when questions were asked about why five of the six had apparently spoken, but one of them hadn't at that point. this issue -- and i believe it is different across the country. but a kind of code of silence, a 10 day grace.

-- grace period. what is the period that police do not have to explain what happened? >> that is where we should focus much of our attention. there's a 10 day grace period in which the officers involved in the killing or an injury to citizen have the right not to be questioned not to be asked what happened at the scene. and the officers can take, and often do take him advantage of that. and so during those 10 days, at least the appearance of collusion is taking place. and in many situations, the police have an opportunity to think together, to come forward with an explanation that might fit the situation but may not be the whole truth.

and one of the things that we need to look at here is why we give police and only police a 10 day period of silence, and then, of course, the police code of silence -- the blue wall that we've heard mentioned before -- for many, many years now. the police were present, the six officers know the truth. they know what happened. but the police code of salat says, do not testify against a brother or sister officer. and that is obstructing justice. we have to figure out when police officers can come forward . and i'm hoping in this case, that one or more will. the ones who had the least involvement in this. my hope is this will be an opportunity to eliminate the wall of silence because that is what is making it almost impossible to reach the truth and a find out what happened.

amy: doug colbert, the other issue raised by the attorneys for the six police officers that marilyn mosby has conflict of interest because she received a campaign donation from freddie gray's attorney. what about the fact she also received campaign contributions on the fraternal order of police? >> there's a real reach here, amy. the motion to dismiss, in my opinion if it ever applied to other defendants brought into a system without must make a difficult, impossible for the elected state official to prosecute crime. so when people give the campaign donation, if that is grounds for elimination, or if people have some relationship outside of this particular office with the

state's attorney, you really have to show that the state's attorney is doing something, is taking some action that is inappropriate. and i don't think whether it is miss mosby are one of our top investigative journalist, who for many years has been presenting information about the police -- which i'm sure did not make many police officers happy -- but there really is a full scale challenge, almost an attack, on anyone who might be doing something that the police union is opposed. amy, you mentioned earlier, and i did not get to this, but the bill that was set for that young man of $500,000 and other high bails for property-type crimes that is where we begin often

or sometimes at least, there are judges who use ale and appropriately. this was a young man, kelly, who did not have any parking convictions, who voluntarily surrendered with his parents to the court. and you would think in that situation that you would have followed the law and said a bail that was -- set a bill that was something the family could have posted. it when you set an extreme bail that is so excessive and violets of persons constitutional rights, again, it revives an opportunity -- provides an opportunity to question, why are we using money to decide people's freedom? we have a system -- amy: when we come back, i would ask a final question that goes to the case that was made famous through the podcast serial, since you are his bail attorney.

we will ask yoyou that in 30 seconds. ♪ [music break] amy: prince performed in baltimore this weekend. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. our guest is doug colbert, an attorney and professor of law the university of maryland and school of law. i want to turn right now to the case of adnan said.

international attention when it was the focus of serial, considered the most popular podcast ever and podcasting's first breakout hit. the first ever podcast when a peabody award. he was convicted of killing his girlfriend in 1999 and has been serving a life sentence. his legal team argues prosecutors failed to interview an alibi witness and that his lawyer failed to inquire about a possible plea deal. the podcast provided an in-depth look at the case and explore potential flaws with the prosecution and said's defense. in february, the court agreed to hear arguments about why adnan she did a new trial. he is now seeking a new trial based on the contention he is ineffective counsel. you were his bail hearing attorney. you talk about the significance of the court's ruling and what will happen in june? >> yes we represent a mr. said

for the first 30, 35 days after his arrest. and we represented him at two bail hearings. the purpose of ordering his release would have made a tremendous difference at trial itself. and had the judge accepted the fact there were 60 to 70 people from his community who were in court to vouch for his credibility -- amy: we just have 20 seconds. >> what we're looking at with the prosecution using adnan's race, nationality, and religion for a reason to keep them in jail. those are factors that only wish have been disregarded by the court. amy: role arguments to nine in this case, the case of adnan sai d. doug colbert -- >> i think it will be delayed. the state has asked for additional time.

we will see. right now it is still scheduled for june 9. but there may be a postponement. amy: doug colbert, director of the access to justice pretrial clinic and founder of lawyers at bail project. [captioning made possible by >> this is democracy now democracy now.org and the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, host of democracy now. you get an independent tv channel, because we don't turn to manufacturers -- the weapons manufacturers or the coal companies or gas companies for support. we turn to