06/23/15 06/23/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> when we see that symbol lifted up as an emblem of hate, as a tool of hate, as an inspiration for hate, as an inspiration for violence, that symbol has to come down. that symbol must be removed from our state capital. amy: for decades civil rights groups have called for south carolina to remove the confederate battle flag from flying on the grounds of the state capitol.

now on monday, south carolina governor nikki haley joined the growing number of elected leaders calling for its removal following last week's mass shooting at a historic black church in charleston. >> that flag while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state. the murderer locked up such he hoped this would start a race war. we have an opportunity to show not only was he was wrong, but just the opposite is happening. amy: we will go to columbia south carolina to speak with republican state legislators including one who is introducing the bill to remove the flag, and we will go to raleigh, north carolina where we will be joined by state naacp leader the reverend william barber, who learned of last week messed while he was in jail for yet another protest.

and in new york, david goodman, brother of slain civil rights activist andrew goodman who was killed in mississippi during freedom summer 1964. he was killed after visiting a black church that had been burned to the ground. all of that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. calls are growing and south carolina to remove the confederate battle flag from the state capitol grounds after last week's massacre of nine african-american worshipers at the historic emanuel african american -- african methodist episcopal church. the flag has been the source of protest for decades, but a growing number of politicians are calling for its removal after photos showed the accused gunman dylann roof posing with the flag. on monday, south carolina republican governor nikki haley called on lawmakers to take down the flag. >> my hope is by removing a

symbol that divides us, we can move forward as a state and harmony and we can honor the nine blessed souls who are now in heaven. [applause] amy: we will go to south carolina to hear from the republican lawmaker who is backing legislation to remove the flag after the headlines. president obama spoke openly about racism in a podcast with comedian marc maron published on monday. in the interview recorded two days after the massacre obama , used the "n-word." quick racism we are not just a matter of it not being polite to say [bleep] in public. that is not the measure of whether there is the racism or over discrimination. societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.

amy: we will talk more about president obama's remarks after the headlines. the pentagon has announced a u.s. airstrike in northern iraq killed an operative with the self-proclaimed islamic state. ali awni al-harzi was seen as a person of interest in the 2012 attack on the u.s. diplomatic mission in benghazi, libya and was accused of recruiting north african fighters. he was apparently killed by a drone near mosul last week. in syria, kurdish forces have reportedly ousted the self-proclaimed islamic state from a key military base north of the isil-held stronghold of raqqa. the britain-based syrian observatory for human rights and the kurdish popular protection units, backed by u.s.-led airstrikes, had pushed isil militants back to the gates of raqqa. it's the second major kurdish victory against isil in a week after forces retook the syrian city of tal abyad on the border with turkey. in afghanistan, government forces have reportedly retaken control of a key district near

the northern city of kunduz amid a renewed offensive by the taliban. the apparent victory comes a -- comes after taliban militants attempted to storm the afghan parliament in kabul monday setting off explosives and firing rockets in a siege which left six gunmen, a car bomber and at least two civilians dead. , dozens of people were wounded. european creditors say a deal to prevent greece from defaulting on its debts could be reached in the next 48 hours. greece's latest proposal reportedly includes new taxes on businesses and the wealthy, and a pension reform plan which increases contributions and restricts early retirement but does not change the pension rate. european council president donald tusk expressed support for the measures. >> the new greek proposal to the three institutions are a positive step for according -- they will be further processed over the coming hours.

work must now proceed within the eurogroup and institutions to work together now so that the eurogroup can achieve results wednesday evening that can be presented. amy: german authorities have freed al jazeera journalist ahmed mansour after detaining him saturday on an egyptian arrest warrant over what al jazeera says are trumped-up charges. mansour's arrest drew international protests over egypt's crackdown on freedom of the press. the death toll from a heatwave in pakistan's largest city karachi, has topped 400. temperatures have reached as high as 113 degrees fahrenheit. but rain is expected to bring relief soon. in santiago, chile, authorities declared an environmental emergency for the first time in 16 years as a blankeket of smog engulfed the city. after shuttering hundreds of businesses and forcing 1.7 million vehicles off the

streets, officials ended the emergency order but kept some , restrictions in place. the order has raised concerns about the health of soccer players taking part in the copa america soccer tournament in santiago. in the latest extreme weather in the united states, a series of tornadoes have torn through states across the midwest. baseball sized hail was reported in indiana. the storms left heavy damage, but eased a record-setting heatwave. the obama administration has released what it calls one of the most comprehensive analyses to date on the impact of climate change. the environmental protection agency found global action to address climate change could save tens of thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars annually in the united states by the end of the century. the report comes as researchers at stanford, princeton and berkeley have confirmed the world is entering its sixth mass extinction, fueled by climate change, with certain species disappearing at about 100 times the normal rate.

u.n. investigators have presented a long-awaited report on last summer's israeli assault on gaza. the report found both israeli and palestinian militant groups committed grave abuses which may amount to war crimes. mary mcgowan davis, chair of the commission of inquiry called for the international community to change policies on the use of explosive weapons. >> the most we can hope for out of this long and arduous process of inquiry is that we will push the ball of justice a little further down the field particularly, by calling on governments to stand up and join together to address the crying need for changes in policies regarding the use of explosive weapons with white area affects in densely populated urban areas like gaza. and further, to hold accountable those who do not pay scrupulous attention to protecting the lives of civilians. amy: the pentagon has vowed to provide weapons, aircraft, intelligence and special operations forces o a new nato rapid-response force to help european allies counter

potential aggression from russian. -- from russia. defense secretary ash carter announced the steps during a visit to germany. >> we do not seek cold, let alone, hot war with russia. make no mistake, we will defend our allies. the rules-based international order in a positive future it affords us. we will stand up to russia's actions in their attempts to reestablish the soviet-era influence. the united states will not let russia dragged as back to the past [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: the was is poised whether to allow a bill that would allow the transpacific partnership to be push through with no amendments. if republican supporters can get under 6 -- garner 60 votes and get trade authority today the measure like we see final passage in the senate wednesday. well is across the country of urged senate democrats to reject the tpp. new york city has reached a deal

to end a lawsuit over abuses at rikers island jail. in an agreement with federal prosecutors and attorneys for injured prisoners, the city agreed to the appointment of a federal monitor, new requirements for reporting use of force by guards, new surveillance cameras, and a pilot program for guards to wear body cameras. the reforms follow a scathing federal report over excessive force at the jail. the supreme court has made it easier for prisoners awaiting trial to sue guards for using excessive force. in a 5-to-4 ruling, the court ruled in favor of michael kingsley, a wisconsin man who was awaiting trial on drug charges when guards removed him from his cell and shocked him with a stun gun for refusing to remove a sheet of paper covering a light fixture. columbia university will to fast from the private prison industry following 16 months of student protests, becoming the first university in the country to do so. organizers of the columbia prison divest campaign say they

were notified monday that columbia's board of trustees had decided to heed calls to divest from corrections corporation of america and g4s, and to ban reinvestment in private prison firms in the future. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. calls are growing in south carolina to remove the confederate battle flag at the state capital after last week's mass shooting of nine african-american worshippers at the historic emanuel african methodist episcopal church. the flag has been the source of controversy for decades in south carolina, but a growing number of politicians are calling for its removal after photos were published online showing the accused gunman, dylann roof, posing with the flag. on monday, south carolina governor nikki haley on monday called on lawmakers to take down the flag at the state capitol grounds. >> for many people in our state, the flag stands for traditions that are noble.

traditions of history, heritage, and ancestry. the hate filled murder massacred our brothers and sisters in charleston has a sick and twisted view of the flag. in no way does he reflect the people in our state who respect into many ways, revere it. those so carolinians view the flag as a symbol of respect integrity, and duty. they also see it as a memorial. that flag, while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state. the murderer now locked up in charleston said he hoped his actions would start a race war. we have an opportunity to show not only was he wrong, but just the opposite is happening. my hope is that by removing a symbol that divides us, we can move forward as a state in harmony and we can honor the nine blessed souls who are now in heaven. amy: south carolina governor

haley called on state lawmakers to address the issue over the summer and said she would order a special session if they did not. debate over the flag goes back decades. south carolina race a flag over the state house in the early 1960's at the height of the civil rights movement. 100 years after the civil war. the flag was moved to its current location, on a lower flagpole on the capitol grounds in 2000 when the naacp launched a tourism boycott of the state. last week, naacp president cornell william brooks described the flag as an emblem of hate. >> some will assert the confederate flag is merely a symbol of years gone by, a symbol of heritage and not hate. but where we see that symbol lifted up as an emblem of hate as a tool of hate, as an inspiration for hate, as an inspiration for violence, that

symbol has to come down. that symbol must be removed from our state capital. amy: while south carolina has been the focus of attention this week for flying the confederate battle flag on the grounds of the state capitol, seven official state flags in the south still contain imagery from the confederate flag -- alabama, arkansas, florida, georgia mississippi, north carolina and tennessee. to talk more about the controversy, we are joined by number of gas. from columbia, south carolina, south carolina state representative gary clary and don doyle. in raleigh, north carolina, reverend dr. william barber joins us, president of the north carolina naacp. the we begin with republican south carolina state representative doug brannon, who is announced plans to sponsor legislation to take down the confederate flag from the front of the state capitol. brannon was a friend of the late

state senator reverend clementa pinckney who was killed in last week's church massacre. state representative brennan joins us via democracy now video stream from spartanburg, south carolina, from the district he represents. welcome to democracy now! we are going to begin with you, republican state representative doug brannon. tell us about your decision to introduce legislation to bring down that flag. >> i woke up thursday morning, last thursday morning to the news of the deaths of these nine wonderful people. i felt something had to be done in -- then. it took a few hours to figure out what, but what really prompted my desire to file the bill was when i saw the photos of the front of that automobile and the photos of the t-shirt and then later in the day, but

that shooter caring -- carrying the flag. clementa pinckney deserves this. those not people deserve this. our state capital needs to be free of the flag. amy: how long have you been in office? >> five years. amy: have you ever had a desire to do this? had you ever spoken with clementa pinckney about his desire to have this removed? >> no was the the senator and i had not talked about the flag specifically. we did talk about other issues and we talked about judicial candidates and those types of conversations, aside from just friend the conversations. and he and i never talk specifically about the flag, no. i think other question was, had i thought about it before. as i have said to others, no and i apologize for that. i should have done it five years ago. that is what public officials are supposed to do. i did not do

it and for that i apologize. amy: what was your reaction to seeing governor nikki haley say for the first time that it should come down? >> pure joy. i'm thankful for the governor's remarks and the man's, but to see those standing near her, you know, senator graham, senator scott, members of both bodies, the house and senate -- the movement -- the current has picked up. it is moving quickly. and i believe the votes are there. amy: do you believe you could use during -- lose your next election for introducing this legislation? >> i have been up since 4:30 this morning and watching the local news and spartanburg and they were conducting a poll. if it is accurate, i will lose because it was about 70/30 in favor of leaving the flag on the state capitol grounds.

so if that poll is correct, i am in my last term. amy: is it making you reconsider? >> absolutely not. i've said over and over again i'm going to do my job until i lose my job. in my heart, i know this is the right thing. amy: we are joined by your fellow state representative gary clary. can you talk about your thoughts on the day the massacre took place at mother emanuel, the emanuel ame church in charleston? >> well, i had similar feelings as my colleague doug brannon did, just utter disbelief of what has transpired in charleston. we lost a friend and colleague and senator pinckney and then those eight other souls that pierced that night. and certainly, when i look at my

career, a very short when here in the general assembly, i knew that something had to be done. i talked to my friend doug brannon and he talked about the political realities of what we are about but when i ran for election last year, i asked the people in my district to vote for me if they wanted to send a reasonable and sensible person to columbia. i believe that the vote they gave me was resounding. and as a result, i know i'm doing the right thing because we need to end this part of our history. when i say end it we need to remove this flag from the state house grounds and put it in a proper place. we need to put it in the confederate relic room and amusing where it justifiably belongs, but not on the front door of the statehouse grounds. there is a fence around that flag that was moved into thousand.

i think it is very significant defense is there. i believe fences are put up to keep people out. what we need to be doing here in south carolina is building bridges and tearing down those fences. amy: we are also joined by the reverend dr. william barber from north carolina. reverend barber, where were you when you heard that clem pinckney, state senator pinckney , and eight others were killed in this massacre at the church in charleston? >> we were actually in jail, about 10 of us had been arrested in the statehouse in north carolina for challenging extremist politicians who have passed the worst voter suppression law in the country. in fact, we were arrested for merely speaking up. they told us we could not exercise our first amendment right, and we found out about it in jail. amy: your reaction?

>> i have a lot of mixed emotions. i have said the perpetrator has been arrested, but the killer is still at large. historically, what causes this kind of terroristic violence is when you have racialized political rhetoric and racialized policies. they become the spawning ground, the birthing ground, if you will, for terroristic violence and violent resistance. the flag, for instance, south carolina was put up and began to be waived more after the 1954 brown decision and then in 1962 at the height of the civil rights movement. the flag was put up as a resistance to policy. dr. king called it into position and notification. -- interposition and nullification. i am glad to hear those two representative say what they said. but i heard the governor say it will always be part of the soul

of south carolina. soul is something you grow from. reverend pinckney was not just a post of flag, he was opposed to the denial of medicaid expansion, where now the majority of the state opposing medicaid expansion, over six out of 10 black people live. he was opposed to voter suppression, voter id in south carolina. he was opposed to those who have celebrated the ending of the voting rights act or the gutting of section 4, which means south carolina still longer preclearance state and the very district he served in his vulnerable right now. he was opposed to the lack of funding for public education will stop he wanted to see living wages raised. i would say to my colleagues, let's take down the governor -- the flag, but let's put together in omnibus bill in the name of the nine martyrs. and all of the things reverend pinckney was standing for, if we say we love him and his colleagues, let's put all of one

of -- all of the things in a big omnibus bill and passed that and bring it to the funeral on friday or saturday, saying we will expand medicaid to help not only black people, but poor white southerners and south carolina because it is not just the flag. the atwater talked about the southern strategy, where policy was used as a way to divide us. we want harmony. we have to talk about racism not just in terms of simple, but in the substance of politics. the flag went up to five policies. if we're going to bring it down, we're also going to have to change policies, particularly policies that create disparity and fight black, brown, and poor white people. amy: representative doug brannon, republican state representative, your thoughts as you listen to the reverend william barber? >> we have never met. i would like the opportunity.

i am a republican member. five years ago, i thought a bill that would have torn apart public education in south carolina. i understand there is much change that needs to take place in the state of south carolina but this flag is where we are starting. i'm not willing to spread -- we have to focus on the flag, and that is where things to stay right now. i respect everything the gentleman said. i can't say i agree with everything he said, but i continue that we have got movement here and i'm going to keep my focus on this issue right now. and when we address this issue properly, we will move to the next. amy: representative gary clary you are dealing with these issues in the legislature. for example, one of the issues that state senatorclem pinckney focused on, medicaid expansion. your thoughts about this? >> medicaid expansion was

something that was debated during the last session of the general assembly. an governor haley made the decision that she would not accept federal funds for medicaid expansion. certainly, i hear what reverend barber has had to say, and that is something that is going to have to be examined in the future. i agree with doug brannon from the standpoint, we are up against the clock right now because our session actually ended june 4 and we are operating under a resolution. i think that resolution will probably -- there will be an attempt to amend that today to deal with this flag issue. and that is something i agree with doug that we need to focus on right now because if we can pay tribute to senator pinckney and those other eight that lost their lives last week, then that would be a major achievement for us in being able to remove the

flag from the state house grounds and then start taking the next step and so far as dealing with some of the problems that reverend barber expressed. amy: there is a confederate monument that was built to be with the flag in front of the state capitol. is there any discussion, doug brannon, of moving that to a museum as well? and is there any discussion of possibly having a monument to the nine martyrs or to your fellow state representative, actually a state senator clementa pinckney? >> i have not heard any comment or mention of removal of the actual confederate memorial. i would remind everyone that there are several different memorials around the state capitol. it is actually -- except for the

flag we're talking about today the state capital is a beautiful area with monuments and memorials to many individuals and groups of people. as far as a monument to the nine who were murdered last wednesday, i have not heard any mention of a specific memorial for them, either. but that, i was adjust, is a wonderful idea. amy: we are to take a break and then come back to this discussion. we are joined by two south carolina state representatives both republican, doug brannon gary clary and both say they will support -- that brennan says he will introduce the bill to bring down that flag. reverend dr. william barber is with us from raleigh, north carolina. we will be speaking with historian don doyle about the significance of the confederate flag. and we will soon be joined by david goodman, the brother of andrew goodman.

andrew goodman, james chaney and mickey schwerner were two civil rights activist who in early 1960's when to mississippi to deal with an attack on a church, a black church, a church that was burned down. as they left that church, they ultimately were murdered. we're going to talk about the significance of this 51st anniversary of their deaths. it was oh, june 21, 1964. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we turn to comments made last year by south carolina republican governor nikki haley, she suggested south carolina had resolved its image problem and having the confederate flag at the statehouse was fine because

not a single ceo had complained. she was speaking at a gubernatorial debate. >> the confederate flag is a very sensitive issue. what i can tell you is over the last 3.5 years, i've spent a lot of my days on the phone with ceos and recruiting jobs to the state. i can honestly say i've not had one conversation with a single ceo about the confederate flag. what is important here is we look at the fact that, yes perception of south carolina matters. that is why we have everybody answering the phones, "it's a great day in south carolina." that is why we are getting all these great accolades. but we have fixed all that we elected the first indian-american female governor. and we have pointed the first african-american u.s. senator. amy: i am wondering, what is the response of corporations right now? for example, doug brannon knowing --boeing is there. walmart just announced their

removing all the better paraphernalia from their shelves. are they going to bring pressure on the legislators to vote this way against the flag? >> i can tell you that several local timbers of commerce have demanded the flag come down. i believe the state chamber made the same request late yesterday. obviously, i cannot speak for boeing or bmw. they're both wonderful contributions and corporations that contribute mightily to our economy. i mean, the movement is now. the business community understands what the flag means to a large percentage of our population. i am amazed at how things have changed from thursday afternoon to yesterday afternoon. it is just incredible. i believe the business community

has much to be praised for the change in the temperature on this issue. amy: reverend dr. william barber , the issue of guns that president obama raised right after the massacre went right to this issue. this was the 14th time he came before the american people talking about massacres that had taken place that he said, are unique to the united states. he says it is about guns and gun control. >> i want to step back but let me answer in light of that. again, policy. when i was in jail that night for opposing voter suppression our legislature passed a law in north carolina using -- easing can restrictions and gun control, making it easier for people to get guns, even if they were not cleared in terms of their mental records. that was asked at night. i know my good friend dr. ran

off, reverend pinckney, also working for gun control and working against things like police brutality. this is what i mean. this flag is folder. it took 52 years after 1962 to get it down. it was raised because of policy. in civil rights, when the girls were burned up or blown up in the birmingham jail and president kennedy was killed, we got the civil rights act, an anonymous bill to deal with civil rights. -- omni was built to deal civil rights. bloody sunday, we got the voting rights act. when dr. king was killed, we got the fair housing act that made it so you could sue people if they did not allow you and your community. to suggest that nine lives and taking a symbol down is sufficient to honor nine deaths -- nine. 9. nine deaths.

is to diminish that those lives -- what i'm saying to our brothers and sisters on the phone this morning, look what reverend pinckney stood for and those members they fought for. they fought for medicaid expansion, gun control, public education. they fought to raise the living wage, minimum wage to a living wage. other way people -- you deny medicaid expansion, people die. you deny a living wage, and people die. i'm suggesting we ought to look at all of these issues. we can't say the flag is just a start in this honors them. this does not fully honor these steps. if we're going to start and be political -- lee atwater said in an infamous radio interview, he said, we stop talking about race in a very open way usually --

we started talking about policies like tax cuts, states rights, forced busing. he said they found the nine, but they actually have a negative impact on african-americans and they promote this idea that southern whites, the problem of southern whites are rooted in the advances of black people. that is what this young man was in essence saying. in essence he was saying, summit is taking over his country. i'm calling on democrats and republicans, the naacp if you really want to honor these vicious deaths, then like we have had to do with other deaths in the country, let's have some substantive policy change. why not name the voting rights restoration act, since the supreme court has gutted it and we have not fixed it in two years, why not name it the emanuel nine voting rights act restoration? why not ever republican and

democrat come out and say, we are for fixing the voting rights act because without preclearance, the very see that reverend pinckney held is in jeopardy. those are the kinds of substantive conversations we need to have. gun-control ought to be among those as well. and we can do this in an omnibus way. we don't have to wait another year or two years, we just have to have the moral courage to do it and we have to follow what the constitution of south carolina already saying, it is already in the south carolina constitution that we should be concerned about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and doing what is best for all of the people. amy: i want to turn to comments made by president obama in his interview for the debbie t a podcast. he talked about the power of the nra lobby and the role of american public can play in altering gun laws. >> unfortunately, the grip of the nra on congress is extremely strong. i don't for see any legislative

action being taken in this congress, and i don't serve -- for see any real action being taken until the american public feels a sufficient sense of urgency and say to themselves this is not normal, this is something that we can change and we're going to change it. and if you don't have that kind of public and voter pressure then it is not when a change from the inside. amy: president obama also spoke about his reaction to the sandy hook tragedy when a gunman killed 26 people on december 14, 2012. >> right after newtown happen, for example, gun sales shot up. ammunition shot up. and each time these events occurred, ironically, gunman fractures make out like and it's. partly because of this fear that has turned up that the federal government and black helicopters are all coming to get your guns.

and part of my argument is that you know it is important for folks to understand how hunting and sportsmanship around firearms is really important to a lot of people. it is part of how they grew up, part of the bonding they had with their dad. it evokes all kinds of memories and traditions. i think you have to be respectful of that. the question is, is there a way of accommodating that the judgment -- legitimate set of traditions with some common sense stuff that prevents a 21-year-old who is angry about something or confused about something or is racist or is to arranged, from going into a gun store and suddenly is packing. and can do enormous harm.

amy: that is president obama speaking to mark nairn on the wtf podcast. doug brannon, what about the issue of gun control? >> i would ask the people around the country to look at south carolina gun control. just in the past two years, i believe, we have passed full background checks before one can purchase a weapon and we have included in the law that if one has ever been deemed incompetent, they can no longer legally possess a firearm. so president obama has called for background checks and mental health checks on a nationwide level -- a national level. we have done that here in south carolina. so from a gun control standpoint, i believe south carolina is ahead of the curve they are. -- there. amy: we are going to turn now to don doyle, south carolina historian, talking about the

significance of the flag. fetzer university of south carolina. if you can briefly talked about the significance of why this flawed -- flag went up on top of the state capital not 100 years ago, but actually at the height of the civil rights movement. and it significance now what you're seeing now unfold in these days. >> thank you, amy, for having me this morning. the history of this flag to keep in mind first of all, this is not the confederate flag. it is the battle flag of the army of northern virginia robert e lee's major army, not just for virginia, but for the eastern theater. it was a symbol of rebellion. rebellion in 1860, 1861 against

the electoral victory of the republican administration under lincoln. it was a rebellion to secede and overthrow the power of the federal government within what became 11 confederate states -- what then became 11 confederate states. a century later, that flag pin became or had been the symbol of a second rebellion, and that was the rebellion against desegregation and federal efforts to interfere in the states rights to perpetuate segregation. it goes back to at least 1948 in strom thurmond of south carolina, u.s. senator, led the dixie out of the democratic party, protesting the civil rights plan that was included that year the democratic party platform.

it continued to be a symbol and now it was politicized and became a symbol of resistance to desegregation in 1961 1962. this was a time when clemson was about to be disaggregated with harvey gantt applying for admission. james meredith and mississippi. and not to south carolina, but nearly all of the deep south states began to use the confederate flag as a kind of symbol of resistance. it was also entangled with the commemoration of the civil war centennial a century earlier. so it was confused and shrouded in this issue of heritage and history and this kind of benign concept of celebrating were honoring the past -- were honoring the past.

i think people sincerely believed in that, but at the same time, the political implication of the flag in 1962 when it was raised at the statehouse dome along with the united states flag, the state flag, and then this battle flag, i think it was clear to everyone that this was a symbol of resistance, of defiance, and if you provoked an offended i think that was ok with the people who defended the place of that flag up on the statehouse dome. amy: we are going to take a break and come back to this discussion. that is historian don doyle of the university of south carolina. we're talking to dr. william barber in north carolina and gary clary and doug brannon both republican south carolina state representatives, both say they will support an amendment that doug brannon will introduce to bring down the flag, the

confederate flag that now used to be on top of the capital, but was moved to the front yard of the south carolina capital in columbia, south carolina. when we come back, we will also be joined by david goodman to talk about the anniversary of the death of his brother andrew goodman. sunday was the 51st anniversary of the killing of these three young civil rights workers who had just left a burned black church in mississippi. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are speaking on this day after the republican governor of south carolina nikki haley reversed her position and said that the confederate battle flag must come down off the grounds of the south carolina state capital, but she is putting it to the legislature first. i want to go back to president obama's interview with mark nairn on his podcast wtf. >> slavery, jim crow, discrimination in august every

institution of our lives. that casts a long shadow and that is still part of our dna. that is passed on. we are not cured of it. racism, we're not cured of. clearly. it is not just a matter of a not being polite to say nigger in public, that is not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. it is not just a matter of over discrimination. societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior. amy: this clip is being played across the country, i'd their say, in many parts of the world. president obama using the n-word. i want to get worse on's -- i want to get response from dr. william barber, speaking to us from raleigh.

your response? >> first of all, the context of what president obama is saying is exactly right. he is saying to talk about race, we have to move away from just thinking it is extreme, i.e., just a flag or ie just the n-word. we have to recognize, as i said earlier, what lee atwater explained about southern strategy, design in 1968 he said we have to move away from talking about race openly. we can do like george wallace or goldwater, we have to find a way to talk about race without sounding like -- he listed a number of things. tax cuts, forced busing, states rights as code language for talking about race. ronald reagan used it when he started his campaign. he started his campaign in philadelphia, mississippi. he never said the n-word, but he

used the code words. and by being in philadelphia where suwanee, cheney and goodman were killed, -- today with the president is saying you have to look at structural systemic racism. that is what that young men meant when he said summit is try to take over and destroy my country. he had heard politicians and others saying the president is running the country, he's a socialist and a communist, medicaid, destroying the country. we raise the wages, destroying the country. only the willfully deaf cannot hear the racialized implications of that kind of rhetoric in a kind of policy, which is why i agree with the president that we have to talk about race in terms of systemic racism and situational racism. for instance, why is it of the 24 states deny medicaid expansion, six out of 10

african-americans live in the states? why is it we talked about entitlements and away that suggest it is about -- in a way that suggests it is about them? the programs that lifted the americans up after the 1960's? why is it we don't talk about the fact that our schools are re-segregating faster now than they were in the 1970's? we have to talk about wage disparity, generally for all americans, but then he despaired impact upon black people and brown people. we have to get black people, brought people in poor why people to understand, in many ways we are being played by an oligarchy it knows how to use these racialized codewords to create wage issues rather than to create the kind of moral transformative fusion a black, white, and browns that need to happen in this country particularly, in the south, to move us forward. amy: reverend barber you mentioned philadelphia mississippi.

this past sunday marked the 51st anniversary of another hateful act tied to another historic black church. it was june 21, 1964 when three young civil rights workers were murdered after they left a burned church in longdale, mississippi. andrew goodman james chaney, and , michael schwerner went missing after they visited a church in neshoba county, mississippi, which the ku klux klan had bombed because it was going to be used as a freedom school. this clip from the documentary "neshoba: the price of freedom" picking up the story. we hear from retired fbi agent jim ingram and reporter jerry mitchell. it begins with former u.s. assistant attorney general, john doar. >> three civil rights workers were missing and they had last been seen going up to investigate a church burning in neshoba county. >> it is 35 miles from her to philadelphia, then 12 miles to longdale where the church have been burned. that afternoon, the three were seen at the church site at the home of its lay leader.

about 2:30 they headed to philadelphia. >> cheney was outside changing the tire. he had a flat. when they pulled up, price said i'm arresting cheney for speeding. schwerner and goodman for investigation. amy: seasonal price, deputies sheriff, stopped them and takes them into jail. somehow, someway, the message gets out to the clan and then they have to organize. >> the began to gather a group of guys, one of them go get gloves so they would not have fingerprints, told him because they wanted were there any jail. >> by 10:00, price said he located a justice of the peace who find the trail $20. >> they paid the fine and i release them. that is the last time we saw any of them. >> the boys were driving back from the county jail and they started down toward radiant and they were stopped by a police

car. -- toward radiant and they were stopped by her police car. here was this group of klan people. >> they arrested him and put them in price's car. >> then turn into a gravel, rural road. alton when roberts grabbed schwerner and said to him, argued that n-word lover? schwerner said, sir, i understand how you feel. bam, shot him. goodman did not even get a word out. shot goodman. chaney by this point, honestly realizing what is going down took off. we know he was shot by several people. they also apparently beat him. amy: that was jerry mitchell who is with the jackson clarion ledger describing what happened to andrew goodman, james chaney, and nikki schwerner, an excerpt from, "neshoba: the price of freedom." we are joined now in our new

york studio by david goodman brother of andrew goodman. on sunday, the anniversary of andrew's death he wrote an , editorial for mississippi's clarion-ledger newspaper headlined, "u.s. has turned pages, not closed book on racism." welcome to democracy now! david. this anniversary took place on father's day. you commented, the first father's day your dad was alive to learn of this would soon learn of his son's death. >> yes, it is ironic and away -- in a way. june 21, 1964 was father's day. my brother and james chaney and mickey schwerner were murdered by the ku klux klan that evening. 44 days later, we found out definitively because the bodies were found by informants buried 15 feet under the ground in a dam that was under construction.

amy: and your thoughts today in the midst of the horror then, 51 years later, as you listen to this discussion and yet another massacre has taken place, this time in south carolina. you are just in selma for the anniversary of the selma marches . >> yes well, you know, i sort of came of age. i was 17 years old when this happened. it is not like all of a sudden i'm finding out about these issues. my grandfather used to say you ask a 17-year-old and they know everything. i thought i knew everything like all other 17-year-olds, but i was shocked to learn the self evident truths that all people are created equal wasn't necessarily true, and there is a big gap between the ideals and the practices. it has been 51 years to march through for me personally this

realization about the complexity of our great nation. and it is a great nation. but we have profound flaws. the conversation about the flag is a symptom or a symbol of what has been remains, but it is not underlying the fundamental issues. reverend barber has identified those fundamental issues. when you have an educational system, for example, that leaves out a big part of the population , frequently minorities, there is no hope they can move up the economic ladder. when they don't get health care they're not point to be healthy and can't participate in the democratic process. so all of these things are related. the flag we're talking about so much is a symptom. i believe it needs to be removed.

i mean, from the time we are children, we see the american flag one set of the other of the chalk toward. and we put our hand on her heart and we repeat these unalienable lights, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, but some people who do that aren't recipients of those great benefits. and we have to however -- however, when our flag in this printable's are challenged, like isis chopping off heads of our citizens, it is of tremendous outrage to our people understandably, but on the other hand, we have -- and those are foreign terrorists. we have a whiteboard person who not over a period of the year kills four americans, but in two minutes, kills nine. domestic terrorism. these are the challenges we are facing. amy: i want to turn to doug brannon where we began this conversation in south carolina state representative in

spartanburg, who is introducing the builder bring down the flag. right now police have confirmed the charleston church shooter dylann roof and michael slager, the former police officer who shot walter scott in the back, our neighbors in jail cells in the charleston jail. but i want to end by asking you about what you would like to see the legacy of claim -- clem pinckney be. with heard about the legacy and heritage of the confederate flag and the violence around that. how do you want your friend, your fellow legislator, the reverend and state senator clementa pinckney to be remembered? with what kind of legislation will you be just painting? -- participating? >> i will be participating in the legislation to remove the flag. your question is, whether senator pinckney's legacy or what would i like it to be?

it is not what i would like it to be but what it absolutely is. on friday afternoon, so the must incredible thing i've ever seen in my life. i saw family members of nine deceased heroes face a shooter and talk to him with love, forgiveness, and salvation. those people learned that from the great teacher clementa pinckney. his legacy is the lessons he talked and the life he lived. amy: i want to thank you very much for being with us taking this time from spartanburg, you are headed to colombia or this debate is quantitate place. republican south carolina state representatives doug brannon and gary clary and reverend dr. william barber speaking to us from raleigh, north carolina historian don doyle from columbia, and david goodman joining us here in new york, brother of andrew goodman. that does it for our broadcast.

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