07/21/15 07/21/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> last february, the united states was the only country in the western hemisphere who didn't have an embassy in havana. in cuba was the only country in the western hemisphere without an embassy here. now what has happened is the u.s. has joined -- has joined the rest of latin america and

the caribbean. amy: in a historic move, cuba and the united states restore diplomatic relations and reopen embassies shut for over five decades. we will hear from ricardo alarcon, the former head of the cuban parliament, as well as senator patrick leahy congress members raul grijalava and barbara lee and others who , attended the reopening of the cuban embassy in washington. then the historic trial of former dictator hissène habré begin monday but has been postponed for 45 days. we will speak with reed brody of human rights watch. >> this is the first time anywhere in the world the courts in one country senegal are trying the former leader of another, chad, for human rights abuses. the first time the african union

has established a tribunal. and it is the first time the victims of the dictator in africa have brought the dictator to justice. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the united states and cuba have reopened their embassies in each other's capitals, marking another historic step toward the normalization of relations between the two countries. on monday, secretary of state john kerry hosted cuban foreign minister bruno rodriguez at the state department, the first time a cuban foreign minister has visited the office in 54 years. we'll have more on this story after headlines. we're covering the raising of the cuban flag on the cuban of the sea grounds in washington, d.c. in breaking news from senegal, the trial of chad's former

dictator hissène habré has been postponed until september 7 after habré's lawyers did not show up to court for the second day of trial. habre has been charged with crimes against humanity, war crimes and torture related to his eight-year reign in chad during the 1980's. we'll have more on this story later in the show. a memorial service is being held today at prairie view and him university for sandrabland who died last week in a waller county jail cell after she was pulled over for a traffic violation. she was said to have committed suicide, a claim her family rejected. on the waller county district monday, attorney elton mathis said -- "it is very much too early to make any kind of determination that this was a suicide or a murder because the investigations are not complete. this is being treated like a murder investigation."

also on monday, the lawyer for the bland family described newly obtained dashcam footage of the arrest, which shows that the police escalated a routine traffic stop by ordering bland to extinguish her cigarette. >> the video shows that the officer makes the stop, show some approach from the passenger side and ask for drivers license and insurance, which she gives him. he goes back and runs her name approaches her again after doing so on the driver side. he asks her to put out a cigarette. she says, why do i have to put out a cigarette when i am in my own car? that seemed to irritate him to the point were he said, get out of the car. amy: the officer who arrested sandrabland has been put on desk duty for violating traffic procedures during the stop. former nasa scientist james hansen, who was one of the first to raise concerns about climate

change in the has warned that 80's, sea levels could rise as much as 10 feet before the end of the century unless greenhouse gas emissions are drastically reduced. the rise would make cities such as london, new york, and shanghai uninhabitable. this comes as new data shows that this past june was the hottest on record, breaking the previous record, which was set last year. meanwhile, dozens of mayors and officials representing cities and states from across the world are meeting with pope francis in the vatican today to discuss cities' commitment to addressing climate change. the meeting comes after pope francis wrote an unprecedented encyclical calling for action on climate change. in related news, on monday, a group of catholic workers in upstate new york used a seven-foot-tall replica of pope francis' encyclical to erect a highway blockade as part of an ongoing campaign to block a methane gas storage project in caverns underneath seneca lake. thirteen people were arrested.

in news from europe, officials failed to reach an agreement monday on how to relocate the tens of thousands of asylum seekers who have arrived in greece and italy this year. as many as 150,000 migrants have arrived in europe by sea in 2015 alone. after the officials failed to reach an agreement, dimitris avramopoulos, the european union commissioner for migration expressed his disappointment. >> it is clear member states must deliver on the promises made at the european council last month to reach an agreed figure of 40,000 persons proposed by the commission. i want to be frank with you. i am disappointed that this did not happen today. amy: meanwhile, the failed talks were being held, the italian coast guard arrived in a sicilian harbor with about 600 migrants whom the navy had rescued at sea over the weekend.

most were from sub-saharan africa. the credit-rating agency standard and poor's has downgraded puerto rico's debt. in a statement monday afternoon, the agency said it was a "virtual certainty" that the island would default on its upcoming august 1 debt payments. unlike united states states puerto rico is not permitted to declare bankruptcy. many have taken to calling puerto rico america's greece. in turkey, police fired teargas and water cannons at protesters monday during a demonstration against the deadly bombing in the mostly kurdish border town of suruc. kurds in turkey have spoken out against what they perceive to be the turkish government's failure to confront the spread of the self-proclaimed islamic state. meanwhile, in washington d.c. press secretary josh earnest , condemned monday's attack. >> i can take the united states strongly condemns the terrorist attack that occurred in southern turkey.

our condolences go out to the families of the victims, many of whom had come to that community to assist in reconstruction effort. we express our solidarity with the turkish government and the turkish people and reaffirm our undeterred resolve to the fight against the share threat of terrorism. amy: in campaign news republican presidential candidate jeb bush has outlined his economic policy, which includes cutting 10% of the federal workforce and introducing a constitutional amendment to require the federal government to balance its budget. meanwhile, ohio governor john kasich has entered the presidential race, becoming the 16th republican contender. "the wall street journal" is reporting that new york state's fast-food wage board is expected to recommend hiking the minimum wage for fast-food workers to $15 an hour on wednesday. the labor commission is likely to approve the wage increase. new york's governor andrew cuomo has spoken out against the fast-food industry, saying -- "it costs this state $700 million a year to subsidize the profits at mcdonald's and burger king and that is wrong and that must stop." and those are some of the headlines.

this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. democracy now! has just returned from washington, d.c., where on monday the cuban flag was raised at the newly opened cuban embassy. hundreds of dignitaries from both cuba and the united states gathered outside the embassy to mark the historic restoration of diplomatic ties between the two countries after 54 years. crowds of people cheered as the cuban national anthem played and three cuban soldiers stood at attention while the flag was raised. even those without invitations rallied outside the embassy gates. inside the embassy, before about 700 invited guests, cuban foreign minister bruno rodriguez addressed the audience, calling for the removal of the u.s. trade embargo and for the return of guantanamo bay to cuba. >> the historic events we're

living today will only make sense with removal of the economic, commercial, and financial blockade, which causes so much deprivation and damage to our people. the return of occupied territory in guantánamo and respect the sovereignty of cuba. amy: bruno rodriguez is the first cuban foreign minister to visit washington, d.c. since the , time of the cuban revolution. later in the day, he met with u.s. secretary of state john kerry at the state department. the u.s. embassy in havana also became fully operational monday, but will not host a flag-raising ceremony until august 14 when kerry pays a visit to the capital. earlier monday, cuba's flag was raised at the state department joining the flags of more than 150 other countries that have diplomatic relations with the united states. back at the opening of the cuban embassy in washington, d.c., i

spoke with ricardo alarcon and asked them about the significance of this historic day. >> we have to say, it was, it is the result of many years of struggle by many people. the cuban people, but many friends here in this country and around the globe. and i think it is a victory. it is a victory for us, for our people and for all those who were opposing the u.s. policies for half a century. at the same time, should recognize president obama for having realized that it was high time to abandon a policy that is recognized as a failure. we have come a long way, but

there are still a long way to go ahead of us. but for the first time, it will be the americans and cubans dealing with each other on an equal footing. it is very important, amy, that i think everyone should remember. last saturday, the united states was the only country in the western hemisphere who didn't have an embassy in havana. and cuba was the only country in the western hemisphere who didn't have an embassy here. now what has happened is the u.s. has joined -- has joined the rest of latin america and the caribbean. this story began when the u.s. seceded just succeeded in isolating cuba from the rest of the hemisphere, and now the

first chapter has ended with the u.s. ending its isolation from the rest of the continental. amy: how did it happen? >> we should not overstate the role of diplomats. [indiscernible] the struggles of the people. the cuban people who have resisted for a long time [indiscernible] including many, many american friends. amy: you have been a diplomat for decades. cuba was just taken off the list of terrorist nation's in the united states. how does that feel not to be considered a terrorist anymore? >> frankly speaking, the u.s.

asked nelson mandela about being in that place. mandela, his entire life, when he was in prison, when he got out of prison, when he was elected president of south africa, he got the nobel peace prize he was still on the state department's list of terrorists. they took him out in 2008. i suspect because they were suspecting mandela was going to die from [indiscernible] said at the time it was a shame u.s. policy to have that list

with people like mandela. the list or on the list, it doesn't matter. the embargo is a matter of other laws. amy: ricardo alarcon, thank you very much for being with us. ricardo alarcon, the former head of the cuban parliament. he is coming to washington d.c. and leaving almost immediately as well as the other members of the parliamentary delegation. his visa only allowed him to be at the cuban embassy and travel back and forth to dulles airport . i also spoke with senator patrick leahy of vermont, who was with a congressional delegation who was honoring the opening of the embassy and the raising of the cuban flag. senator leahy has played a pivotal role in secret negotiations between the united states and cuba for years, and helped release the five, including her are the hernandez. i asked the senator about the

significance of the day. >> i very emotional. when my first trips to cuba 15 or so years ago, i which a baseball game, a u.s. team playing in havana. they played the cuban national anthem and the u.s. national anthem. everybody in their stood at attention and cheered both national anthems including fidel castro. it was very emotional. this morning standing now on cuban soil in this embassy and to see the american flag, the cuban flag flying side-by-side, hearing both national anthems, i got very national -- emotional and felt very satisfied. amy: you have been instrumental in achieving this moment. you have been involved in the secret negotiations with cuba to get to this point, to normalize relations. can you tell us what you did? >> i had many, many meetings

down there and some meetings in washington, but a lot of meetings in new york. where rodriguez and others could come -- amy: the foreign minister. >> where the foreign minister could come to the cuban u.n. mission without getting permission, in new york. i would meet them there. raul castro -- i showed up one day on crutches because i'd imaged my leg hiking in vermont the day before -- i damaged my leg hiking in vermont that it for. others would go to canada. the canadians deserve a great till of credit because they set a venue where cubans and u.s. negotiators could meet secretly in canada to negotiate. i sent a letter to the pope. the president had heard some of my talking points and the pope sent a letter back who

brings it to the president in the white house and tells a great story of a man walks up and says, hello, ricardo, i'm barack obama. he said, i knew who he was. but these are all step by steps. one of the most important, the so-called accidental handshake between president obama and president castro at nelson amendola's funeral. it was no accident. the president was criticized for it. i said nelson mandela, if you been a world leader funeral, he would have show canneds even with enemies -- if you have been other world leaders funeral, he would have shook hands even with enemies. both got along very well. finally, everything came together. i took the president's plane and picked up alan gross on to summer 17, another airplane brought the remaining members of the cuban five down.

went down to another airfield, picked up a cia a set that the cubans had held for years and years, were all on the ground 31 minutes, took off, flew back. it was a new day. amy: speaking of the cuban five, they are all now in cuba. you are also, shall we say, seminal, your office, in the birth of the child of one of the cuban five. can you talk -- >> you need to explain that carefully. one reporter said, what about this cuban woman that you helped get pregnant? i said, what happened, the wife of one of them has come to my wife. talks gerardo. >> she's reaching an age where she might not have children anymore. she loved her husband. was her some way she could arrange for to become pregnant by her husband?

we went to the bureau of prisons. we had -- we actually had times this have been done. cubans paid for it all. she was impregnated an animal. -- in panel mall. amy: where was her husband? >> in prison in panama, and the united states. she was impregnated with his sperm and they have a beautiful little girl. they named her, the english word is "gem." it is amazing. i give my wife as much credit for that -- and eric holder worked for me in the bureau of prisons, to make it happen. amy: the embargo hasn't been lifted. >> know, but it will be. if it is put to the vote of the american public, it would be lifted tomorrow. amy: could the next president reverse all this? >> nobody is going to.

it is too popular. >> i am marcelle leahy. amy: you were here with your husband senator patrick leahy. >> my husband and i have been traveling to cuba for a little over 15 years. we are just overwhelmed with the thought that now we're going to begin a normalization of relations. this is, i'm for choi, not the end, but the beginning of a lot more hard work -- unfortunate not the end, but the beginning of a lot more hard work. amy: i was asking senator leahy about the cuban five, singer was seminal in the birth of a child. he said, you got to explain that. but then went on to say, the sexy my wife. can you talk about your area in cuba and how your exchange led to something quite amazing? >> i think he is giving me more credit than i deserve, but i did meet with adrianna and her story

was very emotional. it is a young couple who is in the years led by and they wanted to have a child. they want to have more family. person to person, human being to human being. i don't know how you could be anything but moved by her story by her sincerity. she asked me to intercede with my husband, and i told her that he had heard her words and he was a good man and that i would talk to him, but i didn't have to intercede. things involved, because of a lot of hard work from other people and they now have a beautiful little girl. it is as it should be. and maybe if there was a little bit of help towards moving along

our negotiations with the willingness of our two countries to work this out, it makes me very happy. amy: marcelle leahy and her husband, vermont senator patrick leahy, speaking at the newly reopened cuban embassy in washington, d.c.. patrick leahy was extremely important over the last 15 years, involved with secret negotiations with the cuban government around normalizing relations. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, we will hear the voices of diplomats politicians, of activists who have been key and coming to this day, july 20, one of 15, the day the embassies of cuba and the united states reopened after 54 years and the respective capitals, washington, d.c. and havana. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: silvio rodríguez, one of

hundreds outside the cuban embassy on july 20, monday, 2015, as the cuban flag was hoisted to the first time in front of the cuban embassy as it opened for the first time in 54 years. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. that's right, well over 600 dignitaries, politicians activists from cuba and the united states gathered in washington monday to mark the reopening of the cuban embassy there after being closed for over half a century. we turn now to some of their voices. i began by speaking to arizona democratic commerce member raul grijalava of the tucson area. >> we took an important diplomatic step today normalization to follow, lifting the embargo needs to be done. and discussions about returning land to cuba that is rightfully theirs, guantánamo needs to follow. but today i think marks a

growing update for the united states -- up day in the united states were we're going to act like adults. the cuban people have indoor and -- i visited two month ago and the resilience and strength is unbelievable. amy: guantánamo, when will it close? >> there was a seizure and it is been a military base, it is been does it continues to be a prison and that is rightfully cuban land in the long agenda, it has to be returned. amy: commerce member barbara lee of the oakland california area see her. your thoughts today? >> this is what changes all about. i think our president really stepped up, he understood the importance of having normal diplomatic relations between our two countries and i think this is -- i was here in 1977 when this became the intersection. i have been to cuba many, many times, over 20 something times trying to get to this point in terms of the efforts -- i am

very happy. we have a long way to go to lift the embargo. amy: what is it going to take? >> getting legislation passed and we have to get members of congress to vote for it. and you know how that is, but we're on a keep working on it. we will see that they, too. amy: do you think guantánamo will be closed? books i don't know. all issues are on the table. that is the beauty of having diplomatic relations. you have to be able to discuss all of the issues -- guantanamo, the cubans have a host of issues and americans have a host of issues. we cannot even talk until today. amy: michael smith and michael ratner, in addition to being illustrious attorneys, are the co-authors of the book "who killed che? >> and how the cia got away with murder. amy: talk about your feelings on this day. >> i can't tell you how happy i am. i have been dreaming of this ever since a become a socialist in congress 50 years ago. the united states was defeated here.

they thought they could isolate cuba for 50 years. they tried. they not only assassinated che but try to assassinate fidel. they isolated cuba from the rest of the countries in latin america and the caribbean. the tables were turned on them. last year the panamanians, which is not a left-wing government, told the united states, unless you allow cuba to come to the summit of america's come at you don't have to come. we want to cuba. and the u.s. started thinking we have to switch tactics. it is not like they're not still trying to restore cuba to the capitalist empire am a but they're not doing it in the old ways. amy: michael ratner, your thoughts today? >> amy, let's just say other than the birth of my children, this is perhaps one of the most exciting days of my life. i have been working on cuba since the early 1970's, if not before. i worked on the remotes brigade -- ramos brigade ended construction. to see this to happen in a country that decided early on that unlike most countries in the world, it was going to level

the playing field everyone -- no more rich, no more poor everyone the same. education for everyone. schooling for everyone. housing if they could. and to see the relentless united states go against it from the bay of pigs to utter subversion on and on, and to seek cuba emerge tory us -- and when i say this, it is not a defeated country. this is a country -- if you're the foreign minister today, when these oak desk he spoke of the u.s. history imperialism against cuba from intervention in the spanish-american war to the platt amendment which made u.s. a permanent part of the cuban government to the taking of guantánamo, the failure to recognize it in 1959 to the cutting off of relations in 1961, this is a major, major victory for the cuban people all stop and that should be understood. we are standing at a moment that i never expected to see in our history. amy: bruno rodriguez, he gave a

rousing speech inside the embassy. talk about what he said still needs to be accomplished. he wasn't exactly celebrating a total victory today. >> no, because things -- the united states is still spinning $30 million year to try to subvert the cuban government and are still illegally holding guantanamo. they still have, and the most important thing, because it is costing the cuban people $1.1 trillion in funds to develop their country, they still have the blockade. so unless those three things are changed, you're not going to have a normal situation. let me tell you, as someone said, if obama wants to solve guantánamo and prisoners i quite on a month, give it back to cuba. there will be no prisoners left in guantánamo. the easy way to do it, satisfy the cubans, satisfy guantánamo. let it happen now. think about cuba plus place in history and we think about it for young people, not just for the fact it levels society

economically, gay people the social -- gave people the social network we don't have the united states, but think about internationally. you think about apartheid in south africa and the key single event that took place in angola when 25,000 cuban troops repulsed the south african military and gave it its first defeat, which was the beginning of the end of apartheid. it had an internationalism that just unbelievable. i remember standing in 100,000 people in front of a square and havana in 1976. fidel gave a speech and he said there's black blood in every cuban vein and we're going into angola. i still cry over it. >> wayne smith, i was third secretary of embassy in the u.s. embassy in havana in 1978 -- i'm sorry, 1958. i was there until we broke

relations in january 1961. so i was there when we pulled the flag down. now here i am when we pulled the flag up. amy: talk about -- amy>> thank god. amy: describe what happened. it was president eisenhower? >> they loaded us on a bus, took us to the port and put us on a ferry to take us up to washington -- not to washington, i'm sorry, to the united states. that was it. we got on the ferry and most of us were very sad that we were breaking relations, but, well these things happen. amy: did you think you would be back pretty soon? >> we thought we would be back in a couple of years. not possibly 54 years. amy: how many times did the u.s. attempt to assassinate castro? >> i don't know. i was not in the cia, think out.

and they did attempt to assassinate. amy: what you think is most important, especially for young people to understand about this day in his relations with cuba? >> that our policy did not work. we refused to dialogue with cuba. we tried to overthrow castro bay of pigs and all that. and then we had the embargo and a refusal to negotiate. that accomplished nothing. look, it was totally counter productive. as we began this policy and early 1960, mexico was the only latin american country that did not have diplomatic trade relations with cuba. by 2014, the united states was isolated. obama has switched to a new policy of engagement and dialogue. that might achieve something. the old policy did not. it was totally unproductive.

amy>> i am with the fmln. i'm here to celebrate with the people of cuba. this is a big day for cubans and for u.s. citizens, too. we dreamed for a long time to see the end of this very cruel embargo that the u.s. has. if cuba made it with no resources at all for 50 years, we can do it, too. in el salvador, now that the fmln is in power, we struggle for that. we are struggling to have the best education system, to have the best medical systems, to have -- to end poverty. i think these struggles inspire

us and motivate us to continue fighting with human rights, to people's rights to end poverty and to end hunger. cubans are great. i think what they are doing for the cubans in cuba are also wonderful things that we don't see here in the u.s. or in also adore like free education infant mortality, best medical treatments. even rich people -- u.s. citizens have to get medical treatment. they have done a lot of great things that cubans never stop supporting us. cubans never stopped giving us all the political and social support to the people, not to the government, but to the people. we had a light of natural

disasters -- we had a lot of natural disasters and the people from cuba were always there to support us and help us. they also gave us scholarship for students who started medicine in cuba who are now great doctors providing the best medical services in el salvador. we are very grateful to cuba probably things they have done for us. >> >> roberto. i am from bolivia. i have been here for 15 years. i'm president of the coalition of popular movements of washington. we are here supporting the new relations, the new diplomatic phase between the united states and cuba, but we're happier for cuba because after 50 years of political and economic strength relation, now they're going to be free once again. free with their people, free with the people of the world free with all the popular movements of the world, free

like the vatican free like other countries of europe, free like everyone. today is a day of happiness. >> my name is estelle vasquez. i am here representing 400,000 members of 1199 that are celebrating along with all the peaceloving people worldwide the free establishment of relations between cuba and the united states. this is a combination of 54 years -- culmination of 54 years of struggle. mutual respect and without [indiscernible] we welcome the reestablishment of relationship. amy: why is this important your union members? >> is a question of human rights. our union has been, for 54 years, calling for the end of the [indiscernible] freedom for the cuban five and finally, the achievement today. >> this is an amazing first

step. it is only a first step, but it is usually important similarly to see the cuban flag flying over the embassy like a normal embassy here in washington. i'm not much of a flag waver not my country or anybody's country, but to finally see this as a normal embassy, this is huge. for half a century, for five decades we have seen the u.s. trying over and over again to overthrow the regime regime change in cuba has been the mantra of one u.s. government after another, when u.s. president after another. finally, that is beginning to change. for decades, we're seen cuban terrorists in this country anti-castro terrorists among other things, assassinated my colleagues in 1976, just a few blocks from here on sheridan circle with a car bomb in what was then the worst accident -- international terrorism in the united states. approved by the united states

allowed by the united states. it was at the behest of the u.s.-backed junta in chile. the first time i went to the annual memorial at the spot where they were killed just a few blocks from here on embassy row am a sheridan circle, blocks from here that you can walk to in 10 minutes, i looked at the plaque at the spot where they were killed and it had are birthdates and the date of their deaths. i was exactly ronni moffitt's age. we were nine days apart. i realize that we were like the same person. it is a very powerful thing to me to see that, knowing it is not going to happen again. this is the beginning of the u.s. normalizing relations with cuba so that anti-castro cubans, whatever they want to do, will no longer have the support of the united states state department, the united states government in carrying out the terrorist acts. when cuban exiles shot down a plane over the bahamas, a plane that had taken off from venezuela with -- killing 73

people, including the entire cuban youth fencing team, a nine euro child, it was all civilians -- it was an act of global terror. and the guy who was responsible still is living miami without any accountability. this is the beginning of ending that. it is not the end, but the beginning of ending. >> my name is james. i'm a member of the board of the inter-policy studies. amy: you're here on this historic day. you are about to drive dennis glover away, so you are in your car but sitting in front of a now opened cuban embassy with a flag flying high. talk about the significance of this. >> my first thought is operation truth, the word of fidel castro when he was here in 1959. he said, this is an operation of truth. we carry the weight of the human revolution. this flag is a manifestation of the achievements of the cuban revolution. in that context eras which is

itself determined to deal with now with, hopefully, less interference externally from the united states so they can get on with their internal negotiations of a democracy inside cuban socialism. i say that because when i listen to the foreign minister bruno, he was very clear, very precise that this is an achievement of the cuban socialist revolution. amy: can we and where we began today with just one last comment? we spoke to your passenger earlier this morning before the flag was raised and his name is danny glover. quotes as i move through the crowds, i saw wayne smith. he has been a long advocate. i saw others who have been there, senator leahy was there and those who have been advocates to what is happening and what the possibilities are. i think we all have to do our

work. there's so much work that we have to do as citizens. it begins there. we have to engage the cuba. we have to understand, we have to know there is a new history that is being written at this particular moment. and there are going to be changes in the way we think about it. we are going to be -- they are going to do things their own way, and we know that from the past, you know. james has been talking about the issue of descendents after 40 years. i have been talking about it for about 20 years. the thing is, we have had to pull and push and pull and push and even though that full and push, we felt it was productive. you know, this gives us another opportunity to talk about the things that we talk about relating ferguson, relating black lives matter relating all that is happening here too young people.

amy: that is actor/activist/director danny glover among more than 600 people at the cuban embassy and washington, d.c. that was yesterday, monday, july 20, 2015, the day the cuban embassy was opened and washington d.c. and the u.s. embassy was opened in havana cuba for the first time in 54 years. to see all of our coverage of cuba over the years, you can go to democracynow.org. back in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as return now to news from africa, the trial of the former dictator of chad has begun in senegal. it took an unexpected turn today when it was postponed 45 days after hissène habré plus attorneys did not show for the trial. hissene habré is a former u.s. ally who has been described as "africa's pinochet." he is accused of killing as many as 40,000 people during his eight years in power in the 1980's. habré is being tried in a special court established after a two decade long campaign led by his victims. in a statement today about the post on trial, attorney reed brody of human rights watch said -- i recently spoke to reed brody in new york before he left for

senegal for the trial. he is worked with victims of hissène habré's regime since 1990 nine. i asked her to talk about the significance of the trial. >> for the first time anyone the world the courts of one country, senegal, are trying former leader of another, chad, for human rights abuses. the first time the african union has established the tribunal. and it is the first time the victims of a dictator in africa have brought the dictator to justice. and as you said, this is the end of a 25-year campaign by the victims to bring hissène habré to justice. this is going to be a first for many things and i think for chad and for africa and for justice in general, it is a big step forward. amy: talk about the reign of hissène habré, how he came to power, who he was supported by an what he did.

>> he was the ruler of chad from 1982 to 1990. he was brought to power actually by the united states by ronald reagan. it was the first covert operation of the reagan administration before the contras in nicaragua, before -- he was seen as a bulwark against the market off the -- muammar gaddafi. with the u.s. and french support, he took power, maintain power, but turned his country into a police state. it was a one party system. he is accused of thousands of political killings, of systematic torture. we happened to stumble on the files of his political police, the dds, in the event in offices. in these files alone, we were able to calculate the names of 1208 people who died, over 12,000 people who were tortured

or victims of opportunity detention. he carried out waves of ethnic cleansing against, first in the south in 1984, then against other ethnic groups. he was overthrown, finally, 1990 by the current president of chad . it is been 25 years since hissène habré fled to senegal 25 years his victims have been pursuing him. amy: and the secret police? >> it was kind of like his personal gestapo. it was, according to the documents we found, his eyes and ears. it reported directly to him. so we have daily reports going to him about the treatment of different prisoners. it is clear from these documents, which are like a roadmap to the repression, that hissène habré was kept aware of what was going on. we also in these documents, see the u.s. involvement.

we see in these documents, training of dds officials in the united states. we see visits to the dds by the u.s. liaison officer to the dds will stop amy: whose government -- >> ronald reagan. it is to the credit the obama administration is been a big supporter of bringing hissène habré to justice, has continued it to the court and u.s. ambassador for war crimes is coming to the opening of the court. amy: how did he end up in senegal and why have they chosen to try him and him what charges? >> after he was overthrown first of all, he could out the country's treasury, totally emptied it out and went to neighboring cameroon. then he was looking -- the u.s., in fact, which had supported him to the very last day, was trying to find a place for him that was further away from chad. he ended up in senegal. the victims began this quest actually on the heels of the pinochet arrest when the former

chilean dictator pinochet was arrested in london by -- on the warned of a spanish judge garçon for crimes allegedly committed in chleile. the house of lords ruled he could be prosecuted anywhere in the world even though he was a former head of state. the human rights movement was in effervescence. there was this idea of using the international justice system to bring to book people who seemed out of the reach of justice. it was at that point the chadian or a chadian human rights activist came to us and said, well, we have somebody who is our pinochet. that was 1999. we helped the chadian victims from chad go to senegal where hissène habré was living to file the first case against him. hissène habré was arrested 15 years ago for the first time by a senegalese judge.

but he used, in effect, the money here taken from chad to basically build a network of influence and support in senegal that blocked the case for over 12 years. it wasn't until 2012 when international court of justice ruled that senegal had to prosecute or extradite hissène habré in the new president was elected, that the case got back on track. but during that time, there was a constant stream of chadian victims went to senegal building support for the case, building international pressure so that when he became president, he felt obliged to move forward with the case. amy: i want to turn to another film that was just made called "talking about rose." can you introduce it for us? >> this is a remarkable story. when we were interviewing the survivors for the first time, a

lot of them, including several women, told us about this woman prisoner rose, who is like a kind of guardian angel who would help people out and would try to smuggle out notes about people being tortured and killed another cellmates who are being tortured and killed in prison. she herself was betrayed and they took her out of prison and executed her. when we found the files of the dds, we found the last report of her interrogation. in this interrogation, after she was betrayed, she tells her captors who write it down, she says she does not regret anything she did, what she did she did for her country and even if she dies in prison, history will remember her and chad will thank her. and so this movie is called "talking about rose."

because she said, history will talk about me. here's this woman who basically tells her cap errors me you know, history will talk about me host of her captors write it down on a piece of paper abandoned for 15 years, and then we find it. history will talk about me, i don't care what you do to me. this is a movie called "talking about rose." amy: "talking about rose." >> one of the first women in chad to become an elite builder. after she joined the opposition, she was arrested and taken to prison. in 1984, she was put in cell c known as the cell of death.

amy: "talking about rose."

reed brody is our guest, ternium human rights watch, who has been one of the seminal forces in the hissène habré trial that is just about to take place right now. in senegal. so this story of rose is -- i can't say typical, every person is so unique and surviving there imprisonment, the culture -- their torture. but how does this contribute to the trial? >> first of all, it brings a human face. one of the interesting things about this case is the victims are the architects of this prosecution. it is not coming down from the hague, from an international prosecutor, an international court. it is very difficult for hissène habré to pose as the victim here when there are the faces and the stories of real victims. princeton's, when hissène habré was first arrested in senegal, his wife wrote a teary letter to

the president of senegal, oh you don't know what it is like to have my has been away when my daughter comes home from school. well the next day, a widow from chad responded. tang, you don't know what is like to have my husband taken away by your husband for 25 years. and her picture was all over the senegalese press. hissène habré's sang he doesn't want to come to court. so one of the lead victims wrote an open letter to hissène habré saying, we fought 25 years to get to court. you were once our omnipotent dictator and now you're afraid to look us in the face and hear our stories? the fact the victims have played such a protagonist took role in this case, i think, makes a very much more inspiring for victims around the world. and it also makes it much more difficult for hissène habré to say, no, i'm being prosecuted -- persecuted by the international community or whatever.

amy: so when does a did nader get tried by international criminal -- when does a dictator to try but international criminal court and when does something like this, a neighboring country tries the person? >> hissène habré's alleged crimes took place before the alleged international court happen. the icc is a court of last resort. it is only supposed to kick in when national courts cannot. this case is the first case in africa going to trial on what is called universal jurisdiction, which is the pinochet principle which says certain crimes are so heinous that wherever you are the courts of the country can prosecute you. so if you are alleged to have committed torture and you come to the united states, the united states, if they don't extradite you back, supposed to prosecute you in the united states. amy: attorney reed brody talking about hissène habré was on trial

in senegal. the trial has been delayed 45 days. we will keep following the story. that does it for our broadcast. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democrac

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