11/12/15 11/12/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> i would like to talk to the audience about progressive values. i think israel is at the very least misunderstood. amy: a leading washington progressive think tank, the center for american progress, welcomes israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu prompting a revolt among some staffers. we will speak to a former center employee about netanyahu's speech and leaked emails showing

the center had censored its own writers on the topic of israel. and as republican presidential candidates come out against raising the minimum wage we , speak to nobel winning economist joe stiglitz about "rewriting the rules of the american economy: an agenda for growth and shared prosperity." is as low as 45 years ago, half-century ago, says something. in economy that does we've had technological change, globalization, all of these things which are supposed to make our economy better and stronger and yet at the bottom, they haven't had a pay raise in a half-century. it is not a living wage. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

up to 7500 kurdish peshmerga forces backed by .u.s-led -- us-led warplanes have launched an offensive against the self-proclaimed islamic state in northern iraq. the offensive seeks to retake mount sinjar and surrounding areas from isil. last year, isil trapped tens of thousands of yazidi religious minorities on mount sinjar, prompting president obama to authorize airstrikes to prevent what he called a potential act of genocide. ultimately, hundreds of thousands of yazidis fled, and many were raped, murdered or , enslaved by isil. the offensive also seeks to sever a key isil supply route between syria and the isil-held iraqi city of mosul. in the afghan capital kabul, thousands of people marched through the streets wednesday carrying the coffins of seven ethnic hazara hostages beheaded by isil. the demonstrators called for the resignation of president ashraf ghani's government, accusing him of inadequately responding to violence against civilians in afghanistan.

in the united states, protests against racism on college campuses have spread across the country. following the resignation of two top officials at university of missouri, students rallied on the campus of smith college in massachusetts and yale university in connecticut, where more than 1000 people packed into a forum on race wednesday evening. at ithaca college in upstate new york, up to 2000 faculty, students and staff staged a , walkout to call for the resignation of president tom rochon. the students laid down on the rainy walkways in a mass die-in. they expressed solidarity with students on other campuses across the country. >> all over the nation, both on and off college campuses, we of seen both young and old fighting against injustice. we stand here in solidarity. our hearts are heavy with the yale andizzou and every person of college on a college campus something because of the color of their skin, the texture of their hair, or ancestry.

this is the problem of the nation. however, how can they not actively foster growth to our consciousness over oppression and privilege. amy: the protesters at ithaca college accuse president tom rochon of responding inadequately to racist incidents, including one where an african-american graduate was repeatedly called a savage by two white male alumni. the incident took place during a panel discussion in october, when todd young açai said she had a savage hunger to succeed. burch creative capital chief executive j. christopher burch then repeatedly called her a savage, saying, "i love what the savage here said." in this clip you also hear the moderator, former nbc news correspondent bob kur, pointing to burch and saying, "you are driven," then telling sy, "you're the savage." it begins with burch. >> i love what the savage are set. >> you are driven. you're the savage. and you are driven. talks what empathy means is

exley caring deeply for other people's personal pain. and so as the savage's this year -- >> right. >> it is a, human. i'm complement in you. i think she is amazing, an amazing young woman. amy: the protests at ithaca and elsewhere come amid ongoing concerns over racism at the university of missouri. on wednesday, two men were arrested for allegedly posting social media threats against students of color at the university. the threats included, "i'm going to stand my ground tomorrow and shoot every black person i see" and "i'm gonna shoot any black people tomorrow, so be ready." the two men arrested are both 19-year-old white college students, but neither is a student at university of missouri. hunter park, who attends missouri university of science and technology, was in rolla, missouri, about 100 miles from columbia. the second suspect, connor b. stottlemyre attended northwest missouri state university in

maryville -- 200 miles away. a number of professors cancelled classes and some african-american students left the university of missouri campus over the threats. one professor submitted a letter of resignation after he sparked outrage by refusing to reschedule an exam when students said they felt unsafe coming to his class. a university spokesperson said professor dale brigham's resignation was not accepted. and another wave of student activism, students across the united states are walking out of class today to protest massive student loan debt. they're calling for a minimum wage increase for campus workers and free public college tuition. the protests come two days after fast food workers staged -- walked off the job nationwide calling for a $15 an hour minimum wage and union rights. newly released video footage shows three south boston, virginia police officers , repeatedly tasing an

african-american man who died in police custody. during the incident two years ago, police took linwood lambert to the emergency room because he appeared delusional. he was not under arrest at the time. the video shows lambert kicking out a cruiser window and running for the emergency room entrance. the officers tase him repeatedly, even as he remains on the ground, and restrain him with shackles. they continue to tase him. they take him back to the cruiser where they tase him again. in total, he was tased 20 times over a half hour period. the officers then lambert to jail, instead of the hospital where they noticed he was , unconscious. am ambulance brought lambert back to the same hospital, where he was pronounced dead. his family has filed a $25 million lawsuit. palestinian officials say an undercover israeli agents stormed a hospital in hebron and fatally shot a 27-year-old palestinian today.

the palestinian ministry of health said undercover commandos shot abdullah al-shalaldeh five times after he allegedly attempted to stop them from questioning his cousin, who was receiving treatment after being injured by israeli security forces. israeli news outlets said the agents were with the secretive intelligence agency shin bet as well as the israeli army and border police. one was reportedly discussed as -- disguised as a pregnant woman. jehad shawar, director of hebron's al-ahly hospital, condemned the attack. >> is a clear breach of all international laws and all ethics related to hospitals. it is well-known hospitals are a safe place for everyone. so what do you think when he unit of undercover security raid a hospital? they cannot even as soldiers, to arrest one of the patients who was lying injured in his bed. the crime became even uglier when they surprised the companion of the patient and shot him with five bullets and

executed him in the hospital. amy: the european commission has issued new guidelines for the labeling of products from israeli-occupied palestinian territories. under the new standards, products made in israeli settlements deemed illegal under international law must be labeled. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu criticized the regulations. products fromg of the jewish state by the european union brings back dark memories. europe should be ashamed of itself. it took an immoral decision. hundreds of territorial conflicts around the world, it chose to single out israel and israel alone while it is fighting with its back against the wall with the wave of terror. amy: we'll have more on netanyahu's recent visit to the united states and ties to the democratic think tank center for american progress after headlines. sweden has introduced new border controls as refugees from syria, iraq and elsewhere seek to entry the country. -- to enter the country. nearly 200,000 people are expected to arrive in sweden this year, a higher number per

capita than any other european union country. meanwhile slovenian soldiers , began erecting a barbed wire fence near the border with croatia in a bid to stop the flow of refugees. and 14 refugees, including seven children, drowned off the turkish coast trying to reach greece. in what appears to be a massive breach in attorney-client privilege the united states, the intercept has obtained a trove of prisoner phone records, including recorded calls between prisoners and their attorneys. attorney-client phone calls are privileged communications which are not supposed to be recorded. but hacked phone records from securus technologies -- a leading provider of phone services in prisons and jails -- appear to include about 14,000 recorded attorney-prisoner conversations. the company's contract specifically stipulates telephone calls with attorneys are not to be recorded, and any calls that are recorded must be destroyed. the aclu said the revelations may constitute "the most massive

breach of the attorney-client privilege in modern u.s. history." and in new zealand, women members of the parliament had been thrown out of a chamber wednesday after sharing their stories of sexual assault. their actions came after new zealand prime minister john key accused opposition politicians of "backing the rapists" when they raised concerns about the detention of new zealand citizens by the australian government. one by one, the women parliament members rose to say that as survivors of sexual assault, they were offended by key's remarks. the house speaker, david carter, declared their statements out of order, but they continued to rise one by over the speaker's one objections. >> the victim and survivor of family violence and an advocate for victims of violence, i take personal offense at the comments -- >> order, order. we are now getting into the state where there could be a series of these points of order. i will here on the insurance that it is a fresh point of

order and not in any way the type of points of -- >> is not a campaign, mr. speaker. as a victim -- >> order. >> i take personal offense. >> order will resume. amy: the women parliament members continued to rise one by one, until finally the house speaker ordered them out. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. just eight months ago, u.s. and israeli relations were said to be at their lowest point in decades. in early march, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu came before congress in an unprecedented and ultimately, unsuccessful, attempt to kill the nuclear deal with iran. then, several weeks later, netanyahu was re-elected after warning of a high turnout of

arab voters and vowing to prevent the establishment of a palestinian state. that prompted criticism from the obama administration, and even talk for the first time of the u.s. no longer blocking un measures critical of israeli settlements and the occupation. but those expecting a confrontation when netanyahu returned to washington this week were mistaken. instead, president obama and netanyahu held what all sides agreed to be cordial talks on increasing u.s. military aid to israel. netanyahu reportedly requested a record $5 billion in annual u.s. military aid, an increase over the $3 billion the u.s. already provides. if obama had any concerns about israel's occupation of palestinian land and its continued illegal settlement activity, he did not share them publicly. addressing the jewish federation of north america, netanyahu praised his talks with obama. >> i had a very good meeting

with president obama at the white house, and i deeply appreciate his commitment to both israel security at the time when the middle east is becoming more dangerous than ever. and i also want to say that we are sharing so many things, the united states has given indispensable help to israel -- indispensable, but israel is returning that assistance almost on a daily basis in intelligence and many other things. amy: despite the high praise, there are signs the tension still remains. ahead of netanyahu's visit, israel moved to greenlight the expansion of israeli settlements in the west bank with 2200 new housing units. the move recalled a similar act by netanyahu just before a visit to israel by vice president joe biden in 2010. a few days before the israeli prime minister arrived in washington, he appointed ron barraza to become head of public

diplomacy and media at the prime ministers office. in a facebook post in march, baratz described president obama. last year, he said john kerry had the mental capacity of a 12-year-old. amy: nermeen: hillary clinton wrote an article for the forward headlined "how i would reaffirm , unbreakable bond with israel -- and benjamin netanyahu." meanwhile, the center for american progress, leading progressive group with close ties to both clinton and obama, held an event this week hosting netanyahu in washington. that decision reportedly prompted a revolt from some staffers, angered a liberal group would give netanyahu a platform. in his opening remarks at the event, netanyahu told attendees he wanted to speak to a progressive audience. to awould like to talk

progressive audience about progressive values. i think israel is, the very least, misunderstood because i think if you look at all the values and all the rights that you deem important -- i'm talking about the rights of women or the rights of gays or the rights of minorities, the rights of arabs, the rights of jews, the rights of people -- these are enshrined in an imperfect society. israel is not perfect. i don't know any society that is. but one that is facing incredible odds with incredible successes. and it safeguards those values and a very, very troubled area. amy: israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, speaking to the center for american progress. netanyahu's appearance came just days after a new controversy over the group's alleged censoring of writers critical of israel. newly leaked emails published by the intercept show the cap made

key editorial decisions -- including editing articles, silencing writers, and backing off criticism -- at the behest of influential groups who backed israeli government policies. center for american progress representatives were not available to join us on the show and sent us a statement instead saying -- "cap believes we need to engage with people we don't agree with. tuesday's forum covered a broad range of issues including the prospects for peace, west bank settlements, the prime minister's past remarks, and settler violence. by having the prime minister with us, we sought to elevate the quality of the debate about u.s.-israeli relations after several years of tension." for more, we are joined by a guest who experienced the censorship first-hand. ali gharib is a contributor to the nation magazine and a former staffer at the center for american progress. one of his articles for the center he said was censored

after complaints that the center president neera tanden, a clinton loyalist who served under obama, and ali gharib was told first hand not write critical articles of leading pro-israel groups, such as aipac. we welcome you to democracy now! before we get into netanyahu speaking before the center, can you talk about these allegations you have made? theworked for the center at time that these leaked e-mails come from that the intercept got a hold of? >> yeah, the basic story was we got attacked by a group of right-wing pro-israel advocates over a period of several months. instead of standing behind our work, cap's leadership turned around and went to the same groups that were attacking us in an attempt to curry favor with him said, we will tamp down these criticisms of israel -- amy: how do you know they said we will tamp down? >> it was clear the e-mails that

released that they've been going to groups like aipac and saying we are working on this problem and then i sat in editorial meeting where it was made absolutely clear that aipac criticizing aipac was not on the menu. criticizingfically, jewish groups that were advocating for israel was something that we weren't supposed to do in the pages of cap products we were putting out. nermeen: is it the case the result special editor who is designated to look at all of the material that was being written about israel? >> yeah, we had a minder -- i was looking at the center's blog in progress and we had a minder who would take all of our post before publication to the executives upstairs. whenever the subject was israel and also, in many cases, it ran. -- iran. one of the hosts you're talking about like a censored after publication was about islamaphobic film being shown at

nypd trainings and we wrote an article pointing out the people behind this film were a group of evangelistic orthodox group involved in promoting west bank settlements and had a long history of islamophobia. and that was the post -- it did not go to the normal channels because it wasn't about israel, it was just the people who happen to be putting out the movie were israelis. that was the one that then was listed income plates from pro-israel advocates and was cut down after publication to remove any references to israel. nermeen: i want to turn to one of the e-mails leaked to the intercept, writing in january 2012 to some of her employees, cap president neera tanden said --

she said she went through even the last few weeks and saw this bias. thosent on to say -- and insisted "we're going to continue to have a problem could you too talk about who and loose is and why the cap leadership was concerned about her opinion of the blog? , who since that time, since 2011, 2012 when this happened, has joined the israel project, which is a right-wing, pro-advocacy group that is headed up by a fellow named josh block of a former aipac spokesman, who was also the one who launched the attacks against as calling us anti-semites and

try to curtail our message on israel. onon't know what was going in their attendance had, but i presume they met somewhere in clinton land. there were both clinton aides of both considered clinton loyalists. and that line of to medication -- amy: when you say clinton, you're talking about? >> bill and hillary. worked for hillary's campaign the first time in 2008 and ann lewis was close to the clintons when bill was president as well. amy: we're going to go to break. when we come back, we're gonna talk about netanyahu coming to the center for american progress, think progress wrote 10 falsehoods that netanyahu told during his appearance at cap. think progress, you talk about it in the past as being the blog of the center, but it is separate now? >> yeah, i think they're staking out some editorial independence. that becomes clear with these sorts of posts they're doing.

i can't speak whether they had restraints now on their work, but they certainly did when i was there. amy: ali gharib is a contributor to the nation. his most recent piece is headlined, "dissent breaks out at the center for american progress over netanyahu's visit." we will be back with him in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. would ask about some of the objections raised by center for american progress staff last week regarding the invitation to netanyahu. in the statement they read aloud, they wrote --

what do we meanwhile, the cap executive vice president for sternal affairs told foreign policy magazine that as a think tank "we believe we need to be open and engaging with people we don't agree with." she pointed out the israelis initially reached out to cap and in the past, cap has been "highly critical of the prime minister for only dealing with the right." she would on to say -- ali gharib, and can you comment on what she said and whether from your assessment from the event the questions asked were

critical of netanyahu? >> i think there is in a piracy. it is tough from where i'm standing to have some of the same cap executive's involved in that saying that they favor an open debate after they censored our writing. but i think the record speaks for themselves -- is self. none of these groups would host proponents of boycott, divest income and sanctioning israel, even though that is a growing grassroots movement. granted, that is to present head of state, but it is still about -- if it is about the free debate of the ideas, that is idea growing and is increasingly important. so i don't think they really want just an open debate with all comers, i think it is sort of pandering to a particularly powerful political force in the united states. amy: let's go to the center for american progress event with the israeli prime minister

netanyahu. neera tandem question him about a comment he made in the recent elections in israel. >> one incident that struck a nerve with many progressives was statements made during the recent election. i want to quote where was said you said air voters are coming out in droves to the polls and people were a little taken aback by that. what do you say progressives in the united states who worry about comments like that and what it means for an inclusive israel? statement, as it was said, was wrong. arabs voted for me. i welcome that. in fact, you may check this, but i think they voted for me in considerably larger numbers than they voted for the labour party. i was not referring to go to vote, was beginning about that was opposed, but it should not have been

said. if you days after election, i called in the arab leaders. arab leaders to the prime ministers residence. and i said, i'm the prime of m e minister. i don't want that statement to go uncorrected. i corrected it and make sure they understood. amy: your response, ali gharib? >> either that answer has some problems with it. he says, despite his statement that palestinian citizens of for him a large numbers and labor, that is not true. there is an analysis that left the israeli blog -- leftist israeli blog at it was in a conference of analysis because the actual statistics can be tough to define, but he pointed out in the arab municipalities that are palestinian cities within israel, likud have been beat something like three to one

by labor in its best showings. even that front the guy just without falsehoods. i think that speaks to the fact neera tandem was not the right person to conduct this interview because she doesn't of issues well enough to be able to respond when netanyahu brings these falsehoods. amy: he was also questioned are the center for american progress event on tuesday. about gaza. >> israel went through the book. it went by the book. it left gaza to the last square centimeter. it took away -- just took them apart. it even disinterred people from their graves, handed the keys over to masra who probably lost they hamas, even though were only 3000 strong that any of 15,000 troops. they kicked him out. amy: your response, ali gharib? >> that is not true, either.

every international authority considers gaza occupied. the reason is because israel controls its borders and reserves the right to make incursions there. just because aren't settlements and checkpoints on gaza and roads, doesn't mean it is not militarily occupied and that the residents there are not subjugated by israeli military power. israel doesn't make new declarations of war every time it starts these flareup of violence in gaza, does it under the authority that it has as an occupying power. amy: netanyahu was also asked for that settlement and this was his response. >> no new settlements built in the last 20 years. and even before i became prime minister the first time. the additions are in existing communities. the map doesn't change. by the way, google this. this is just repeated ad nauseam , so it assumes the cachet of self-evident truth that they are gobbling up plan. not gobbling up land.

the total amount of built up land, just a few percent. and the addition, if you look at over time, the addition has got to be a fraction of a maybe 1/10 of 1%, maybe i'm wrong. that is the land that is being gobbled up. the settlements are there. the growth in the settlements is not materially affecting the potential map for peace. third, i think it is an issue that can be resolved but i don't think it is course. -- per course. nermeen:, your comments about what he said about the saddle -- status of settlements? the maint allies points. the settlements are clearing -- clearly growing. when netanyahu says there hasn't been any new settlements, his government took steps just this very week to legalize two outpost settlements, which are settlements are considered

illegal even by israeli law. yeah, i mean, the settlements have grown in population so much over the past 20 years, you know, if you look back at the evacuation of settlers from gaza, that was about 5000 or so settlers. and now you have hundreds of thousands living in the west bank. the idea they can just be extricated without an issue and it is not a problem in the settlements aren't an obstacle to peace is total bogus. everyone knows it in the world except netanyahu. nermeen: i want to go back to the op-ed in the forward written by democratic presidential hopeful hillary clinton last week. clinton wrote --

in july this year, clinton also wrote a letter to the billionaire israel supporter haim saban seeking his assistance in countering the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement or bds, calling it -- "the latest attempt to single out israel on the world stage" adding that "we've seen this sort of attack before, at the un and elsewhere." ali gharib, could you comment on hillary clinton coming out so openly and defense of israel? >> yeah, she is chilling -- lily is trying to draw a contrast from obama. saban is a billionaire and democratic donor, but was cool

on obama. as he said over israel, he is very hawkish views on israel. it seems obvious, and this is just pandering, and clinton's op-ed there was not a word about the occupation. delia parents palestinians made was as knife wielding terrorists. no mention of their basic rights and how their basic rights are being trampled on by the israeli occupation. this is like taking us back a few steps in the changing discourse about israel in this country. , thank you for being with us, contributor to the nation magazine, former national security reporter for think progress. we will link to your piece and also to the think progress peace 10 falsehoods that netanyahu told during his appearance at cap. to joe stiglitz, to

the nobel prize-winning economist. nermeen: the fight over income inequality gained national attention when fast-food workers walked off the job in hundreds of cities across the country on tuesday, demanding a $15-an-hour minimum wage and union rights. some fight for $15 protesters rallied outside the republican presidential debate in milwaukee. during the debate, billionaire donald trump and other republican contenders rejected calls to increase the minimum wage. >> taxes too high, wages too high, we're not going to be able to compete against the world. i hate to say it, but we have to leave it the way it is. people have to go out and work really hard and have to get into that upper stratum. that we cannot do this if we are going to compete with the rest of the world. we just can't do it. amy: we and today with part two of my interview with joseph stiglitz and his plan to address income inequality.

he has written a new book called "rewriting the rules of the , american economy: an agenda for growth and shared prosperity." i asked him what an agenda for growth and shared prosperity would look like. quick it is about rewriting the quarrels -- >> it is about rewriting the rules. amy: who does that? >> it has to be with commerce and with a lot of popular support and in the way we're beginning to do that, you know, the fight for 15 movement, raising minimum wage, that is one of the rules, but one of our points, we need a more copper is a agenda than just raising the minimum wage. and if we make -- and the two words there, for "growth" and "shared prosperity," so our view is that the only sustainable prosperity is shared prosperity and that one of the problems is that the way the rules have been rewritten since the beginning of reagan has been to actually slow the american economy. and let me give you one example. when you have corporations

having a very shortsighted view, paying their ceos such outrageous monies with less money spent on investment, of course you're not going to make long-term investments that are going to result in long-term economic growth. and at the same time, there's going to be less money to pay for ordinary workers. and paying that low wages to ordinary workers, not giving them security, not giving them paid, you know, family leave, all that results in a less productive labor force. so what we've done is we've actually undermined investments in people, investments in the corporation, all for the sake of increasing the income of the people at the very top. so there's a really close link here between the growing inequality in our society and the weak economic performance. amy: we're in the midst of an extended election year. but that goes to the issue of how we govern ourselves in this

country, a very critical point. let's talk about what underlies these elections -- campaign finances. how does campaign finance reform fit into rewriting the rules of the american economy? >> well, it's actually absolutely essential. and, you know, the problem is that we've gone basically from a political system with "one person, one vote" to "one dollar, one vote." and, you know, citizens united made that worse. so the only way that you can combat the force of money is, you might say, people power, people coming out. and we've seen this work. i mean, we've seen it work in raising the minimum wage. you know, just -- we couldn't do it in congress, because the gridlock there, the money there, so we've done it in city after city -- seattle, los angeles, san francisco, in new york. so we've actually been able to see that this kind of uprising

can work, even in a political system with money making so much difference. amy: i mean, what's very interesting is you have bernie sanders really stressing inequality. this pushes hillary clinton to do this because he has gained so much momentum and drawn tens of thousands of peoples to his rally. on the republican side, you have, in some areas, donald trump sounding more liberal than hillary clinton -- immediately came out against these trade deals. >> yeah, so, in a sense, what you see both in the republican and democratic party is a sense that something is wrong. you know, america was the first middle-class society. we're about to become the first society that ceases to be a middle-class society. the basic requirements of being a member of the middle class -- the ability to send your kids to school, a secure retirement -- all those things are being put

in jeopardy. and one of the things we talk rules"n "rewriting the is how we can get those back. but what you're seeing on both sides is a sense of anger. now, i think that both of the democratic candidates have put forward credible ways of dealing with it. and there's going to be a long discussion. the problem is that on the republican side there's anger, but it's basically inchoate. you know it's basically tax , reforms that actually rewrite the rules in the wrong way, making things even more unequal than we have and the numbers not adding up. amy: in part 1 of our conversation, we talked about the tpp, the trans-pacific partnership trade deal that president obama has really championed. what would -- what grade, as a college professor, would you give president obama, who actually went to columbia

university where you're a professor, when it comes to these issues? you've called the trade deal a "charade." >> well, unfortunately, you know, he's done some things that -- he did not support some of the basic reforms in the financial sector that i think were needed. tpp, i think, is a very big mistake. on the other -- amy: it means corporations control trade, as opposed to democratic societies and their governments? >> exactly, and particularly as we move away from lowering tariffs, which is what the old trade deals -- these are about regulations. and yes, regulations maybe have -- so many regulations have to be harmonized, they have to be changed. but you can't leave that up to corporations. and with a changing world, you can't lock in the current regulatory structure, which is what tpp attempts to do. so -- amy: for people who don't understand tpp, explain who makes the decisions around these

global trade rules. this will control what? 40% of the global economy? >> yeah. and the irony is that the president came out and said, "this is about who makes the trade rules -- china or the united states?" but i think the big issue is, this is about who makes the rules of trade -- the american people, our democratic process, or the corporations? and who they're made for, which is, for the corporations or for all of us? amy: you don't think president obama understands that? amy: you don't think he understands it, or he -- >> i think he wants to chalk up some kind of an achievement, i.e. he can't pass anything , through congress because the republicans won't allow him, so he has to get something that the republicans want. and they want a trade agreement.

the provisions about -- in the tpp about investment, about -- are the kinds of provisions that were number one in the agenda of the business roundtable. and so -- amy: and explain what the business roundtable is. >> this is the group of the big -- america's biggest corporations. amy: it's not the mom-and-pop stores. >> it's not the mom-and-pop stores. so this is about big business being able to protect themselves. but let me make it clear, it is not about property rights, as we usually understand it. you know, what the ustr says, they say, "well, we're dealing with countries where we can't trust the way the legal system works, so we have to put these protections in because these countries just can't be trusted." we're insisting on the same kind of provision in our trade

agreements with europe, with germany. and the germans are saying, you know, "we have just as good a legal system as yours, and why are you trying to go beyond our legal system?" for instance, there they care about gmo. you know, they care a lot about various kinds of -- amy: right, genetically modified organisms. >> and they say, you know, "we want at least the consumers be informed. they can make a choice." and if this gets passed, if you pass the regulation that says you have to display, and americans -- and people say, "i'm not going to buy a product that's gmo," they can be sued, because of -- amy: if you put the label on, just informing people that there may be gmos in this product, you can be sued. >> you could be sued. now, we don't know -- let me make it clear, we don't know all the provisions. they kept it secret. but you have to say --

amy: and how do they get away with keeping it secret? >> well, that is the amazing thing. you know, this was -- their argument again is they have -- you know, these are negotiations, very complex, and if everything were open, everybody would be -- you know, it would be a mess. but they haven't really kept it secret, because they've talked to the corporations. the corporations have been there at the table saying, "well, it's really important for us to have this provision. it's really important for us to have that provision." but ordinary citizens have not been at the table. you know, the only way that we know what's going on is leaked documents. and some of the links come from -- leaks come from other countries, where there's a stronger democratic commitment to more transparency. but our government has been keeping it much more secret. amy: we're talking to joe stiglitz, the nobel prize-winning economist who's written the new book, rewriting the rules of the american economy. what would rejuvenate worker

power, labor power, union power in this country? >> well, all these things are about rewriting the rules. i mean, our basic idea is that over the past 35 years we've rewritten the rules in ways that have weakened labor power, increased the financial sector power. there's been a rebalancing of the power in the wrong way. amy: what happened 35 years ago? reagan? >> president reagan, but he was part of a zeitgeist, because you see it in europe going on at the same time. and let me just say, tpp is another example of rewriting the rules in the wrong way. it's a continuation of that trend that began back in around 1980 that has increased the imbalance and made things more difficult. so what we need to do now is to rewrite the rules once again, but this time, you know, we're in the 21st century.

it's not going back exactly to where we were before 1980. it has to be modernized. but realize that we rewrote the rules in ways that destroyed the kind of balance of power that we had. amy: so if you were in charge of writing a trans-pacific partnership trade pact that helped people, the vast majority of people, what would be the rules of this tpp? >> well, one thing that we haven't talked about is -- one of the most controversial aspects is access to generic medicines. you know, ordinary people need to be able to get medicines at a low price. we struck a balance in the united states in the hatch-waxman act, where we said, "ok, big pharma has to be able to get some returns for their investments and research." but -- mostly research really goes on in the universities, let's be clear, and at nih government-sponsored research labs. but the generic medicines, which are now more than 80% of all

drugs, bring the prices down. that's the competition that makes the market work. well, we struck that balance, but in this trade agreement they're trying to restrike the balance in favor of big pharma. you know, this is -- we were talking about president obama's legacy. one of his big legacy is obamacare, and that's supposed to bring access to medicine. but when you -- tpp will go in exactly the wrong way, because it will restrict access to medicine for many countries around the world. so that's one thing. but take the investment agreement. i would do two things. first, it seems to me that the conditions under which you can sue are wrong. if a country passes a regulation, whether it's for health, safety, the environment or managing the economy, you shouldn't be able to sue.

these are called regulatory takings. and repeatedly our courts have said it's the basic right of a country to design rules to protect their citizens, protect their economy, protect their environment. so the conditions under which you can sue are wrong. who can bring a suit is wrong. it should be government to government, not corporations suing a government. and thirdly, the judicial process by which it's done, it shouldn't be in private courts. the most important -- one of the most important public functions is dispute resolution. when we created the wto, we created an international panel for dispute resolution. we could do the same thing for investment agreements. but instead, they've decided to go to very expensive private

arbitration, rife with conflicts of interests, you know, so expensive that -- i referred earlier to the uruguay, where philip morris is suing. amy: altria, is it called? >> altria, you know, the successor to philip morris. it's so expensive that uruguay can't pay for its own defense. and mayor bloomberg, who is so concerned about smoking, is paying -- is contributing to the support of uruguay to defend itself against altria, which is just passing regulations to try to protect people's health. amy: joe stiglitz, author of "rewriting the rules of the american economy." we will be back with him in a moment. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. to my conversation with nobel prize-winning economist joseph was, author of, "rewriting the rules of the

american economy." the 2016im about presidential race and began by playing stiglitz a clip of republican contender donald trump calling bernie sanders a communist and a maniac. trucks i watched hillary last that with we're going to get this, we're going to give that. she said, the poor woman! she's got to give everything away, because this maniac, that was standing on her right, is giving everything away, so she's following. that's what's happening. this socialist slash communist ok? , nobody wants to say it. amy: that's donald trump on bernie sanders. explain what bernie sanders represents. >> first, let me comment. you know, the great irony of that is he's talking about bernie sanders and hillary's putting in programs that don't add up, and he's called for a

tax cut aimed at the rich that is $1 trillion short. so you talk about somebody who is -- amy: and he said he'd make the hedge fund guys pay. >> that's right. no, that's one good thing that he's done. and the irony is that the hedge fund guys are taxed at a lower rate than people who are actually working for a living. it's one of the real, you might say, anomalies of our tax system, one that is actually very costly to our economy not just in terms of lost revenue, but induces our best students -- my best students -- to go into finance, into speculation, and we're wasting our most valuable resource, i think -- our human resources. amy: when, instead, you would like to see them -- >> go into research, go into creating productive firms, you know, strengthening the productive capacity of our economy.

you know, the fact that such a large fraction of our most talented young people go into finance is a worry. it should be a worry to -- you know, we've really lost a balance. now, to come back to bernie and hillary. you know, what they're both saying is, really, points that "rewriting the rules." they're saying it's not -- these are not giveaways. we're saying something is wrong with the way our economy is working. the fact that at the bottom, minimum wage is as low as it was 45 years ago, a half-century ago, says something. an economy that come you know we're supposed to -- we've had , technological change, globalization, all these things which are supposed to make our economy better and stronger, and yet at the bottom, they haven't had a pay raise in a half-century. it's not a living wage. so that's all he's calling for. you know, he's calling for a living wage for ordinary

americans. and they're both going for -- we're a wealthy-enough economy that we should be able to provide the basic requisites of a middle-class lifestyle for all americans. amy: earlier this month, democratic presidential hopeful bernie sanders was asked if a socialist could ever win a general election in the united states. this was in the debate. >> well, we're going to win, because, first, we're going to explain what democratic socialism is. and what democratic socialism is about is saying that it is immoral and wrong that the top one-tenth of 1% in this country own almost 90%, almost -- own almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%. that it is wrong today, in a rigged economy, that 57% of all new income is going to the top 1 %. that when you look around the

world, you see every other major country providing healthcare to all people as a right, except the united states. you see every other major country saying to moms that when you have a baby, we're not going to separate you from your newborn baby, because we are going to have -- we are going to have medical and family paid leave like every other country on earth. those are some of the principles that i believe in, and i think we should look to countries like denmark, like sweden and norway, and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people. amy: that's democratic presidential hopeful bernie sanders. hillary clinton weighed in, in the same cnn debate. quick -- >> when i think about capitalism, i think about all the small businesses that were started because we have the opportunity and the freedom in our country for people to do that and to make a good living for themselves and their families. and i don't think we should confuse what we have to do every so often in america, which is save capitalism from itself.

and i think what senator sanders is saying certainly makes sense in the terms of the inequality that we have. but we are not denmark. i love denmark. we are the united states of america, and it's our job to rein in the excesses of capitalism so that it doesn't run amok and doesn't cause the kind of inequities that we're seeing in our economic system. amy: so that's hillary clinton. you advise hillary clinton? >> i talk to her, yes. amy: so, her response -- "we're not denmark" -- as a put-down to bernie sanders? >> well, it's a fact we are not denmark. but the question is whether the united states is rich enough to be able to make sure that everyone has a basic right to healthcare, family leave, parental, you know, sick leave -- we are exceptional -- whether we are a society that can tolerate -- that should tolerate the levels of inequality that we have.

i think bernie sanders is right about that. and i think that we -- hillary is right that one of the strengths of america should be that we can give opportunity for small businesses. actually, denmark and norway do that, as well. so what i would say is that bernie is absolutely right that providing the basic necessities of a middle-class society should be the right of everybody in our country. amy: nobel prize-winning economist joseph with some author of the new book, "rewriting the rules of the american economy." to see part one of our conversation, go to democracynow.org. democracy now! is hiring a development director to lead our fundraising efforts and an on-air graphics operator. we're also accepting applications for our internship

program. find out more at democracynow.org. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]