12/11/15 12/11/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from the u.n. climate change summit in paris, france, this is democracy now! >> these negotiations are in a crisis. the last version of the text we have is really, really bad and the united states is the blocker. amy: the u.n. climate summit has been extended, and civil society groups are calling the latest draft agreement a massive disappointment. we'll have a roundtable on cop21 with chee yoke ling of malaysia,

ruth nyambura from kenya, and u.s. indigenous leader kandi mossett of north dakota. then glaciologist jason box on the melting ice in greenland and antarctica, rising sea levels, and exxon's cover-up -- what they knew as early as the 1970's about climate change. >> they were doing some of the best science in the discipline, and they then defunded those programs and then started to actively fund disinformation campaigns to punctuate your profitability. amy: and british climate expert and former world bank chief economist lord nicholas stern weighs in on presidential candidate donald trump's denial of the human impact on climate change. there is a u.s. presidential campaign underway. the republican presidential candidates led by donald trump

say climate change is not a problem in that it is not human-induced. your response to him? >> it is wrong. if he is new scientific results that overturns 200 years of science and the bulk of the literature, i'm sure he will be publishing them inside to pick journals, and they would love to see what he has to write. amy: this is climate countdown. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting live from the cop21 in paris, france. talks here at the u.n. climate summit in paris have been extended into the weekend as representatives from nearly 200 nations work to finalize a global accord. a draft text released thursday includes the target of limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees

celsius, or 2.7 degrees fahrenheit, above pre-industrial levels. including the 1.5 degrees celsius target meets a key demand of low-lying and vulnerable nations. many are concerned the target is voluntary. also, environmentalists and civil society have expressed concern about many other provisions, and there remain over 50 points of disagreement between nations negotiating the draft. we'll have more from the cop21 after headlines. syria's key opposition groups have agreed on a negotiating position for future international talks on ending syria's civil war. meeting in saudi arabia, the rebels agreed to talks with the syrian regime, but only if president basher al-assad and his top aides step down at the start of any political transition. the groups say they would talk to the regime "within a specific timeframe that would be agreed on with the united nations." but assad has repeatedly rejected calls for his ouster as

a non-starter. in washington, state department spokesperson john kirby called the accord a step forward. >> this was an important milestone in getting to a place where in early january, they can actually begin to have political negotiations with the regime. this was a critical stir -- first step in getting there. there's still more work to do between now, between the conclusion of today's meeting, and sometime in early january when we hope these political negotiations can continue. one big thing is to pick a negotiating team. amy: a recent road map agreed to by world powers would see talks between the rebels and the regime begin next month followed by a ceasefire. wednesday's meeting in saudi arabia excluded syria's kurdish fighters. the iraqi government says it's made gains despite suffering new casualties in the campagin to retake ramadi from the islamic

state. at least two dozen iraqi soldiers were reportedly killed in a pair of suicide bombings. but iraq says it now controls more than half of ramadi, and plans a new push to root out the remaining isil fighters. the pentagon, meanwhile, claims it's killed three top isil leaders in recent bombings. army colonel steve warren said u.s.-led strikes have killed isil's finance chief and two other senior figures. >> we recently conducted strikes isil's three leaders in financial and leadership network. their removal will degrade isil's ability to command and control troops and it disrupts their ability to finance their efforts. amy: a white, former oklahoma city police officer has been convicted in the serial rapes of mostly african-american women. daniel holtzclaw carried out the assaults while on duty after threatening victims with arrest if they did not comply with his

sexual demands. on thursday, a jury found him guilty on 18 counts. 13 victims testified during the trial, each with similar stories of threats, rape, and sexual assault. they ranged in ages from 17 to 57, and all but one are african-american. holtzclaw faces up to life in prison when he is sentenced next month. hundreds of people rallied in new york city on thursday outside donald trump's midtown hotel to protest the republican presidential frontrunner's recent call to ban muslims from the united states. there shouldn't be a number of how many syrians are allowed into this country. islamophobia, all of it, is becoming a real issue. at one point, they are not regulations and more putting fear into the arab and muslim community.

amy: a petition to ban trump from entering the united kingdom in response to his call for banning muslims from the u.s. has gotten over 475,000 signatures, making it the most popular petition ever on the british government's website. the petition's description says "the u.k. has banned entry to many individuals for hate speech ." the british parliament must intended debating it because it has surpassed 100,000 signatures. we will speak with leading british economist lord stern about trump's views on climate change later in the broadcast. meanwhile in the aftermath of donald trump's comments, islamophobic incidents continue nationwide. on thursday, the capitol hill office of the council on american-islamic relations was evacuated after a threatening envelope arrived by mail. the letter contained a suspicious white powder and a note reading, "die a painful death, muslims."

cair spokesperson ibrahim hooper told reporters that tests showed the powder posed no danger. >> field tests are showing there is no hazard. it is now in the hands of the fbi, who will do more extensive tests on it to confirm that there is not -- the substance was not dangerous. so we are thankful to fire and police authorities for their prompt action. and we are glad that, hopefully, it is not a dangerous substance that was sent to us in an envelope that contained a hate message. amy: funerals have begun for the 14 people killed in last week's shooting massacre in san bernardino. on thursday, family members and friends gathered to remember yvette velasco, a 27-year old woman who had been due to begin working as a county health inspector after recently passing a state exam.

>> really, really hope that her family gets comforted by knowing how many people cared, how many how shee touched, and will be remembered. otheruched to many people's lives to ever be gone. amy: as the san bernardino funerals begin, gun control advocates are making a renewed push for meaningful gun control legislation on capitol hill. flanked by other members of the newtown action alliance, the group formed following the 2012 massacre at sandy hook elementary, co-founder po murray said lawmakers have failed to keep americans safe. >> gun violence is a public health crisis that must be .ddressed immediately americans are getting shot and killed everywhere and anywhere -- in our streets, and her, schools, colleges, mosque, movie theaters, workplaces, and places

of worship. too many of us are affected by gun violence and more of us feel less safe. you have failed to keep a safe. we are sick and tired of your inaction. amy: the white house, meanwhile, says it is reviewing the nation's fiancée visa program in the aftermath of the san bernardino killings. shooter tashfeen malik entered the u.s. from pakistan last year under a visa that allowed her to marry her husband and alleged fellow shooter, syed farook. on thursday, white house press secretary josh earnest told reporters that while president obama won't halt the program, it is now under review. >> the fact this person entered the united states and carried out an act of terrorism on american soil is reason enough to take a look at a program, and that is what the president has ordered. amy: and protests continue in chicago over the more than year-old police killing of 17-year-old laquan mcdonald and potential police cover-up. near daily actions have been held to denounce the killing and

call for chicago mayor rahm emanuel to resign. in one of several demonstrations on thursday, about 100 medical students wearing white coats staged a die-in outside city hall in chicago. hundreds also marched in the streets and blocked traffic. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we're broadcasting live from the cop21 in paris, france, where representatives from nearly 200 nations are working to finalize a global accord to prevent the most catastrophic impacts of climate change. the negotiations have been extended into the weekend. officials released a 27-page draft text late thursday. it still includes nearly 50 points of disagreement. the nonbinding text includes the target of limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees celsius, or 2.7 degrees fahrenheit, above pre-industrial levels. that is a key demand of low-lying and vulnerable nations. but environmentalists and civil

society have expressed concern that the target is voluntary and also about many other points in the text including the weakening , of access to financial assistant for vulnerable nations, the omission of pacific dates for carbon cuts, and the failure to address carbon emissions. well, to talk more about what's in the latest draft and what's been left out, we're joined by three guests. chee yoke ling is a legal adviser to the third world network. she is based in beijing. kandi mossett with the indigenous environmental network. and ruth nyambura is with the african biodiversity network based in kenya. let's begin with chee yoke ling. tell us about the latest draft that is working for the final document.

justice the climate movement are extremely disappointed with the latest draft because we are actually here to have a paris agreement to step up the implementation of our climate actions. what actually governs our theate actions for countries of the world and the united nations is already a treaty that exists, so the united nation climate change convention is a treaty that has been around for more than 20 years. we are here in paris trying to reach an agreement to actually step up implementation. when we look at what countries have agreed to do more than 20 years ago, that for what we're calling today, they scale up actions, this actually is an important principle to further responsibility. because global warming today is the result of acute related greenhouse gases. and scientists -- this is a scientific point. we need to stress that. that is why the convention, the u.n. treaty, says we must have

-- have to do more of the share of cutting emissions and the developing countries, you know, -- thatis and is a big deal one point five degrees or 2.7 degrees fahrenheit, as we say in the united states, has been agreed upon? >> there is no agreement. we say we want to cut that, the question is, how do we share the responsibility of doing the actions that will bring us to 1.5 yet though there is been a lot of reporting about -- sure, many vulnerable countries and island states and even developing countries, they want but it has toplan be in actions that are fair so the rich and those who can do more should do their share and the poor should be helped to actually do their share. when we see here, to get to the 1.5 or everybody is treated the same, where we see the rich countries like the u.s. and the european countries or japan saying, we will try to do the best on a voluntary basis and

they are backing off from what they agree to do 20 years ago. they are not cutting emissions at home. we're not going to give money to other countries. number, bute how to get there? amy: ruth nyambura, you're from east africa, where president obama's family is from. can you talk about your reaction to this, well, the pre-final accord that we are just seeing now? >> well, i mean, the sentiment on the ground is basically we seem to be the titanic and all of us are sinking. especially those of us from the global south. we want to get out of this sinking ship, but can't because the developed countries led by the u.s. are holding the lifeboats. so we are in this thing that is going down. it is really -- i mean, we have to call it disgusting. there's no other way to call it. we have floods in india, drought the last five years with drought

every two or three years in the eastern horn of africa. we are seeing the effects of the climate crisis and not just with the dramatic, the floods, the hurricanes in the to-'s. what is happening is happening to farmers on the ground, less dramatic impact, but it is really a shame that on a day that should be the last date the negotiations, we are not there. we don't even seem like we're ever going to be there to get a commitment that actually reflects the real realities of the people most impacted by the climate crisis and the consensus in the scientific committee. amy: women in particular, how are they affected? why are they affected any differently than any other person? gendero back to the roles women have in society. globally, 70% of food production is by women. in some parts, 80%.

women are the majority of the food producers. across the whole agricultural sector, they basically hold it down. we have the cost of extractive industries. when you have pollution, when water is taken away from communities, it goes to mining companies and corporations, women have to spend even more time looking for water. first -- because of the way the system has been organized. to have a text, one, that is basically says nothing with nothing around gender equality, that's to proposes market solutions, that brought about the climate crisis -- again, knowing how the function of the market and the capitalist system we are in, women benefit the least, if at all. amy: what needs to be done? what are you calling for? >> one, we need binding commitments. when you talk about 1.5, again,

1.5 for many of us is still death. when you're talking about 1.5, we must have -- not just dating 1.5, we must have mechanisms that work. mechanisms that talk about food boostsy, funding that agriculture. funding for adaptation, transportation, issues about water, issues about access to land and resources. that must be taken into account in the document. without that, it is an empty document for women all over the world, especially women from the global south. amy: kandi mossett, tell us where you're from in north dakota. and how indigenous people are addressed, the concerns of indigenous people in the text. >> i grew up on a reservation in north dakota, newtown. this whole entire past week has been very heartbreaking and hard

to take for us. it has been a step backwards in the wrong direction. we actually have text now where we are just referenced in the preamble, so it is not legally binding. amy: what you mean? the preamble is not legally binding? >> when there is language in the article that is legally binding language. what they have done is taken a reference to indigenous peoples rights from the article and put it only into the preamble, which is not legally binding. the same for human rights, the same for food sovereignty. they're just different things that have happened in the text that intergenerational equity is also in the preamble. a lot of the youth are very upset as to what is happening. i think it is kind of a shame that we actually of the 21st cop , more than a shame, it is a crime that we have taken a step backwards by taking up the rights of indigenous people. amy: what you face particularly in north dakota? can you talk about, for example, fracking? >> carter fracking, we had seven

coal-fired power plants in their dealing with cancer and mercury poisoning from that. into fracking in 2007, we're dealing with a death by a thousand cuts. we are people that are literally on the front lines being held by traffic,e semi increase in violence against women. ever since we have the oil industry into, we've had jobs created but 11,000 jobs were created in over 10,000 people that came into our state. we have had violence against women increased by 168%, particularly in the area of rape. 14, 15, 16-year-old girls willingly going into man camps and selling themselves. we call them that because there are literally thousands of men trailers orese fema rv parks or wherever they confined space that used to be a wheat field or sunflower field and is now an oil fracking operation. so we're seeing an increase greatly of crime and violence, drug abuse. young girls, two

my friends from this lasted who got addicted to heroin because we now have organized crime. by milt talks, we will feel the effects for 20 years and i'm so worried that at this cop21, by 2.5-year-old daughter won't have a say, but she will be expressing the worst makets and it just doesn't any sense to me that this is the 21st cop and we are considered sacrifice zones and my community. amy: kandi, you are a cancer survivor? >> yes, when i was in college, i was diagnosed with stage four sarcoma tumor, which i shouldn't even be here today. when they diagnosed me, had to wait for nearly a month so they could figure out what it was. and when they did, they said i was lucky that it wasn't attached to my muscle or bone. i went through five surgeries. i have a huge scar as a result

of that. and how is have to be worried it could come back. but i am here, and i do have friends that aren't here, that didn't survive their cancers, that are fighting cancer right now. it is obvious to me it is linked between health, climate, and environment. we are with it on the front lines. amy: kandi, there is a large indigenous civil society presence here. >> there is. amy: what kind of hope is they give you? what has the kind of organizing you have been doing here over the last two weeks mean? who have you been organizing with? >> i have been spending a lot of my time on the outside. as the indigenous and terminal quotek, there is a the goes around, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. we felt we needed to be at the table. we're starting to to the point where we are not even validated by participating because every year for 21 years, people have

said, it's going to be a great agreement, we're really excited. at the end, everybody feels this way, frustrated with the final text. what we have been doing is organizing nonviolent direct action, going out into the streets of paris, meeting with our parisian brothers and sisters and brothers and sisters of the global north and south to stand in solidarity with people from around the world a say, "we don't care what is in your text and written in black and white on paper, we're going to take back the power in opportunities by educating people outside with the reality of life, mother nature." we're going to be outside filling the sun on her face and the wind on our cheeks. that is where it matters, not in this sterile place where there are boxes that were built, where people were displaced here to make this cop21 happen. we're going to be outside reconnecting with our mother earth because when we care for her, she cares for us. amy: just before we went to broadcast, i spoke with lord nicholas stern, the prominent british climate economist, the former chief economist for the

world bank. i asked him about how the united states will allow the word "loss and damage" in the paris accords only if it is agreed that the u.s. is not liable for paying for that loss and damage. >> we are back to the difference between voluntary and formal. voluntary in this context is much more powerful. i am from countries, the u.k. and i county u.k. as a rich country along with the united states, have grown rich on high. fuel economies, high carbon economies. we have some responsibility. we are richer and richer people have some responsibility and we are better equipped with technology. all of those things give us, i think, a moral responsibility to be helpful. i think that is what is going to drive the collaboration to help with adaptation, to help with the damage. that is the way to go.

formal structures, in my view in this context, can produce conflict contrariness and can be counterproductive. amy: that is lord nicholas stern, the prominent british climate economist. we will hear more from him later. chee yoke ling, you are malaysian with the third world network, but you are based in beijing. can you talk about what loss and damage is? >> loss and damage is very much what we just heard kandi talk about. when we see climate change effects on earth, we can adapt. a there's a point were you cannot adapt anymore. when the sea level rises on the coastal areas of small islands of bangladesh or india or china, and the agricultural lands can no longer be used for planting our food, and it is a permanent damage -- there is no way can adapt. that is loss and damage. when we have glaciers melting and there's no way to replace the ice because we're formed too much, that is loss and damage.

this is a specific aspect of carbon and loss. some can be slow over time. this is something we fought for years ago to get in it knowledge meant that loss and damage has to be treated as a separate form of reparation. but the u.s. has refused at all to even allow the words "loss and damage" to appear. there may be a general reference, to have a permanent waiver of any liability or compensation. i want to quickly add from what kandi was saying, one of the things that mr. kerry said last night in the close door negotiations is that it is regrettable, but he cannot go back to washington with a legally binding agreement that legal binding cuts or finance. we see the struggle for us in the south for reducing emissions, the same struggle as our brothers and sisters in the isth because what kandi talking about, if it is not legally binding, --

amy: he is saying that will never get a treaty passed in congress. the me ask you about china come just issued its first ever red alert for pollution, the capital where you live is engulfed in smog, poisonous chemicals that can make residents sick simply by walking outside. what responsibility does china have? >> i live there. one of the things i've been amazed, really, if you are in a country like china, 1.3 billion people, and the government has started taking very serious steps -- more than 10 years ago. not just about global warming, it is pollution in your face, as you say. if you look at china's, action in the last six or seven years, they've had five year plans as part of the development. very ambitious plan in the next 20 or 30 years. they have no choice. they have to cut emissions and make pollution go away. very country that is

dependent on coal, 1.3 billion people who are still of which 200 million are very poor, it would take a lot to switch over to renewables. they are doing it, not enough, but everybody must do. we don't see fair actions by japan or the united states. china is doing its part, but we need everybody to do their part and we don't see that happening at the moment among industrialized countries. amy: ruth nyambura, can you issue -- address the issue of red and red plus? i don't think most have heard what it stands for what it means. fromducing emissions deforestation. basically, a mechanism that deals with -- that was forced loss in the amount of -- forest loss all over the world but specifically in the global south like indonesia and brazil, for example, which have had immense amount of forest loss from

illegal loggers working version forestge of the use of through agriculture into homes. red is labeled as a solution to the climate crisis. that is what the united nations, that is what parties here would love us to believe. but it hasn't been a solution to the climate crisis, because what we have seen as it has given polluting countries in the developed world and corporations the ability to say that, we will continue to pollute as long as i pay for four street habilitation . amy: fracking companies in north dakota, for example, could continue to do that if they pay to protect forest and southeast asia, for example, or africa. >> exactly. at the very heart of it, before you go further, the climate crisis has been caused by

greenhouse gas emissions, so it doesn't stop greenhouse gas emissions because it gives them, i will continue to pollute as long as i can pull elsewhere. what we've seen in kenya, for example, indigenous people mostly are getting evicted from their land because you're getting in situations like the world bank, countries like norway, coming into governments and saying, we're going to give you this amount of money, $10 million, you know, for you to conserve the forest in this particular area. but we have to question the conservation model that we have. amy: how do they conserve it, by moving people out who live there? >> one, moving people out. two, because the united nations considers tree plantations as forest, which is false, a forest is a reach ecosystem, not just trees you planned. most of the trees are being planted are not indigenous to the area. like tying and eucalyptus that

take up so much water and completely change the ecosystem in the area. and another thing, with conservation efforts such as this, it is basically -- i am sure kandi would agree -- this whole idea that local people or indigenous people of people from the global south don't value nature, don't value their eagle system. we have been protecting our ecosystems for thousands of years. it is basically saying, we know what is best, you don't. amy: stray quickly, where you go from here, the famous line among civil society, it is not the road to paris but through paris. will any of you be out on the streets tomorrow despite the state of emergency and ban on protests? kandi mossett, you are on the human chain instead of the protest that day. >> i was. we shut down the 21 solutions. i almost got arrested, but that's ok. tomorrow, we're potentially risking the same thing because we understand we literally have to put our bodies on the line.

we as indigenous peoples are drawing a lead -- redline. we're meeting at notre dame in the morning and marching over to the lock bridge and during a staged event where we are inviting people to. it will be something to see because we are going to draw the redline again. we're going to educate people on what they need to know about how to solve the climate crisis. amy: ruth? >> definitely going to be there. for me, it is basically, one, i live in a space with effects of climate change can be felt. adding onto that, you cannot criminalize the right of people to protest. you cannot do that. for us, beyond saying we must stand for climate justice, that we have the solutions, we have the alternatives, it is also speaking out against the criminalization of dissent that we can see in this building because it is heavily militarized. like entering a police station. in this phase, the

militarization by the corporations and also by our governments, it is saying no to that. amy: and finally? >> it is about transparency. one of the most awful things that is happening paris started in october, cutting observers from the negotiating room. when we are not there to see what country is saying what, the real truth and not the media hype owing on, it is important for us to know what is going on inside so we can know inside and outside to let the people know which are the real blockers among the different countries and governments and where the power is so strong so our work will continue to be inside and outside, but we will have to mobilize a lot of public opinion. amy: chee yoke ling, thank you for being with us, based in beijing, third world network is her organization which is based in malaysia. ruth nyambura, kenyan political ecologist, part of the african ecofeminist collective. and kandi mossett is an indigenous activist from north to code in the united states.

when we come back, we will be speaking with a leading glaciologist and talking with a leading climate economist, stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "carry it on," by buffy sainte-marie. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we're broadcasting live from cop21 just north of paris, france. we turn to an interview i just it with lord nicholas stern, a prime -- economist. he published a report. i asked lord stern, 700 page report, where we stand nearly a decade later. >> i think when i said the cost

of inaction are much bigger than the cost of action nine years ago, i think one could make that statement much more strongly now . in the intervening nine years, we've seen the science grow clear and clear about the risks, the intense risks of climate change. between human beings and the planet. and i think that has become more clear and more clear because emissions have gone on rising, so the dangers are ever more strong than they were nine years ago. on the other hand, the cost of action with technology we have available, has moved very quickly am a much faster than i think many of us anticipated at the time. amy: what are those changes in technology that you hold out hope for? >> i'm not holding out hope for them in the sense that i can see them. the price of a solar panel has come off by a factor of 10. it is 90% less than it was 10 years ago.

that is remarkable change. and they're going on down. it hasn't stopped yet. it is not just hoping for, we have seen a lot and we can see more coming. the same is true of when. we have new materials that help us along the way. with digital methods of controlling our appliances, our cars and so on, which are much more stronger than they were before. much more -- we know much more about energy storage and much more is coming. i think the changes are real because some are ready with us. there's so much more to come. amy: what you think is the greatest threat to the planet right now? >> climate change. if we went to three degrees, the increase in average global surface temperature above the end of the 19th century -- amy: celsius. >> celsius, of course. temperatures we

haven't seen on this planet for 3 million years. we would rewrite the relationships for humans on the planet. some areas would become deserts, probably much of southern europe would become deserts. other areas like florida would be underwater. other areas like the gulf of mexico and the philippines would be hit still more strongly -- amy: when? >> they're coming now. we are one degree now above where we were at the end of the 19th century. we're going to try to hold to two degrees. some of that will come. the answer to win is, well, some of it is here now and there is lots more coming. but you are seeing extremes now. in northwest england, he's already wolfsburg or than they have ever been before in the last week or two. not something that is rare the becomes less rare, but what we have never seen before. in southeast india, you saw

hundreds of people die as a result of rain falls that have never been seen before. we're seeing records all the time around the world. some of it is with us now, but that is that one degree centigrade. if you want to two or three, the things that we see now as very big would look small. , cop21,the u.n. climate do you think it will change things? >> i hope historians will see this as a turning point, that the world got together to change direction to say we are now moving together towards the low carbon economy, that this is the great story of the future. this is the way that we can get secure growth. this is the way we can get clean growth. and it is going to be much more attractive than what went before, and we can see all the actions that we have to take now in terms of the technologies we've got and we can anticipate all caps of other opportunities coming forward as we do and we learn.

amy: the countries are putting forward voluntary targets, not mandatory. so what would guarantee any change? >> the way to get things done is that people want to do them, not because there is somebody standing room with a sledgehammer to whack them on the head of they don't. they have to see, and they do say, this is a much more attractive route. that is the way to get things done. amy: that is lord nicholas stern, the prominent british climate economist and former chief economist of the world bank. when we come back, i asked him about donald trump and his views on climate change. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

as: angélique kidjo serves both an oxfam global ambassador and unicef goodwill ambassador. we spoke to her this week here in paris france and we will be playing that interview next week as we talk about the conclusion of the conference, which, by the way, has been extended into the weekend. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. from cop.adcasting earlier today, i spoke with lord nicholas stern, the prominent british climate economist, former chief economist of the world bank. i asked him about donald trump's views on climate change. finally, not to have you wait in the u.s. politics, but there is a u.s. presidential campaign under way, the presidential candidates led by donald trump say that climate change is not a problem and that it is not

human-induced. your response to him? >> it is straight wrong. if he's got new scientific results that overturn 200 years ofscience and the fastball the science literature, i'm sure that he ought to be publishing them in scientific journals would love to see what he has to right. amy: that is lord stern, the former chief economist of the world bank. toward nicholas stern. we are broadcasting live from cop21. nearlyepresentatives of 200 art tempting -- are in the final stretches of negotiations aimed at reaching an accord to avoid the most catastrophic impacts of climate change. next guest has spent the last ournext guest has spent the last two decades tracking global warming from one of the front lines of climate change -- greenland's ice sheets. from 2008-2012, jason box was the lead author of the greenland section of the national oceanic and atmospheric administration's annual climate change report.

in 2012, he was one of the first scientists to warn there would be surface melting across the entirety of greenland within a decade -- a prediction that drew scorn from many in the scientific community until the melting began only a few months later. jason box has also participated in protests against climate change, including the 2011 mass protest at the white house. his most recent piece for the new yorker, co-authored with naomi klein, is entitled, "why a climate deal is the best hope for peace." earlier this year, esquire ran a profile of jason box headlined, "when the end of human civilization is your day job." jason box, welcome to democracy now! so talk about greenland and what is happening and why people should care around the world. >> greenland's ice and ice around the world is good indicators of climate change,

that an arctic climate change is proceeding about twice a rate of lower latitude. the impacts are important globally, even though this is a remote place. we not only sea level rise, which nasa confirms one meter of sea level rise is locked in by the end of this century and we can't rule out more than that -- we don't yet have the models that have specific processes that we know are happening in the field from our observations. they're not encoded in the climate models, so we have to look into the past. what we see is the last time atmosphere co2 was at 400 parts per million, global sea level was at least six meters higher. so we urgently need to reduce emissions, but also somehow draw .own atmospheric carbon in one great natural technology to do that is in the form of trees and grasses and restore soil carbon stores.

that is a known fact -- natural technology that we need to urgently pursue now. amy: so how did you end up first going to greenland? and explain what it looks like as the ice sheet melts. >> selected greenland as the climate laboratory because we can conduct experiments and monitor over a large scale, and compare our ground measurements with satellite and climate models. we are running a network of measurements. it is now going beyond 20 years. while spending time in greenland, we see numerous physical things happening that are not yet in the models. for example, the snow line on the ice sheet is rising. below the snow line is a dark area. that absorbs a lot more sunlight during the 24 hour sunlit days. that is when multiplying factor.

another is increasing rainfall on the greenland ice sheets. that darkens the surface. warming is bringing more rainfall, more lubrication to the flow of the eye sheet. we observe lakes forming higher on the inland ice. we observe a darkening of the bear eyes areas that is due to microbial blues. wildfire increasing in the arctic is also something we are tracking through a crowd funded activity called the dark snow project at darksnow.org. there are numerous multiplying aspects that we're finding that just aren't in the models yet. amy: what is -- >> the world's fastest continuing flowing glacier. he used to have an ice shelf when i started working in greenland. that i shelf, more than 1.5 times the size of manhattan island, that i shelf disintegrated. we did not recognize the glacier in the year 2003.

the landscape has transformed. this world's fastest glacier has more than doubled in speed and so it is decanting the greenland eye sheet and it is not alone. there are dozens of other marine terminating glaciers like this. consequently, the greenland sea level contribution has more than doubled in the last 20 years. if we start thinking and doubling times greenland's contribution is on the order of 12 year to 14 your doubling times. that delivers globally from other land ice masses including antarctica, the bigger ice sheet, more than one meter level of c by the end of century. amy: do feel the 1.5 degrees celsius or 2.7 degrees fahrenheit target will be -- albeit voluntary target, is important? >> it is nice to have those aspirations and it raises hope,

for sure, but the numbers that the different countries brought -- the u.s. and canada for example, they are not consistent with these 1.5 degrees or even to degree targets. this is like goodwill rhetoric. it makes us feel good, but withut a binding mechanism teeth, a legally binding mechanism, they can say whatever numbers they want to make us feel good, but again, the emissions reductions scenarios that are on the table from the united states and canada are falling far short of hitting that are going through that temperature target. really what we need to be talking about is, you know, that atmospheric carbon level that we can tolerate. unfortunately, it is too high now so the conversation or the missing conversation is also about atmosphere drawdown of carbon. that is why i bring up trees and grass planting and restoring growing parts of our planet. we have lost one third of arable

land on our planet in the last 50 years. we need to start reversing that. we can bring human vacation back to the mediterranean. the roman emperor began deforestation the mediterranean long ago. that trend is behind the drought. we can actually begin reversing that and actually besides bringing moisture back to some of these places is sequestering carbon, gives people hope. it can be a gesture of peace that we can offer around the world. amy: let me ask you, jason box, as a leading glaciologist, scientist, about exxonmobil and about this exposé that by the los angeles times and insight climate news that shows these documents that exxon knew in the 1970's, working with top scientists about climate change, last week and you participated in a very novel kind of mock

trial. the prosecutor's were author naomi klein and 350.org cofounder bill mckibben. you talked about the significance of these new documents that have come out. explain why we know what exxon knew but then covered up. >> my participation was as an expert witness. i read the early scientific documents as part of this inside climate news revelations, this exposé. the clarity of the science that exxon was reducing in the early 1980's is crystal-clear. the technologies they were using -- that climate science was state-of-the-art and still rivals some of the science we have today. for exxon to then take a public position and a position with their shareholders that was not consistent with their very carefully worked out science -- amy: why were they doing this science?

why did they -- >> the reporting is clear that their leaders in the 1970's took this risk factor seriously, because it risks their business model. so they wanted to know them using their own people and they were very well-funded and the documents are well written climate science, they then connected that with their product could not be sold anymore. they cannot convince shareholders their product was viable, but they went ahead and light to the public and they lied to their shareholders. amy: how? >> well, by flatly denying it and by using uncertainty. they brought the rhetoric of uncertainty to their messaging from their ceo to the shareholders and to the public. amy: what happened to the scientific team they hire to research? >> they defunded or science, that there was an economic crisis that they just --

justified some of that defunding. but they take a public position that is counter to their own science is in effect lying in public on issues, you know, just to keep their products syllable. that cost as 20 years. andhey had come straight recognize themselves as an energy company, they could have made that transition with us to cleaner energy and remain a viable company. now they are a rogue comedy. amy: the result of that cover-up? trial.ave made this mock and what clearly needs to happen is the true justice comes to know,ssue that, you climate change is an environment of justice issue and this could not be a more clear case. amy: finally, what keeps your spirits up? when you see what is happening,

gloom for subtitle, " has set in. things are worse than they think, but they can't really talk about it." do you see self-censorship among scientists and what gives you hope? >> imacs and not wanting to be a messenger of doom because i see a lot of hope in the explosive growth in renewables and the fact that the renewables are cheaper than nuclear, cheaper than fossil fuels him in existing markets around the world. and that growth is going to surprise a lot of people how clean energy just takes over because it is better economically. i see that coming. that gives me hope. i sense, actually, in this meeting how broad this movement is becoming, the awareness of this problem. and it is broadening, so it is gaining momentum. i think the moment and will continue to paris. there is a heart of -- and a lot of hard work to do. it is not going to be easy, but

we're doing this for our kids and for nature. amy: jason box, thank you for being with us professor in , glaciology at the geological survey of denmark and greenland. he has been studying the greenland ice sheet since 1994. as we prop up our broadcast with an action earlier this week, on tuesday, as the sun rose in paris, delegation of indigenous people from the ecuadoran atmosphere set out in a handmade, wooden canoe along the villette canal. the kichwa people of sarayaku have been fighting oil exploitation on their lands for many years. in 2012, they won a case at the inter-american court of human rights against the ecuadorean government for allowing an argentine oil company to drill on their land. >> for the first time in history, a canoe that we call the canoe of life named after the hummingbird fish in our territory, a canoe from sarayaku

has arrived here to paris, france. nga andame is nina guali i'm here from the delegation of sarayaku. sarayaku is in the ecuadoran amazon. we have brought a canoe all the way to paris here to the cop with the message of peace, of proposal that means "the living forest." it is a proposal to make sure that nature's rights are being respected and indigenous peoples rights are being respected, and also a way to combat climate change. the whole community has been involved pretty much. there is one person who shaves the canoe and then there are others also helping to burn it and things like that.

make like a big party. you gather all of your friends and family and community members to drag the canoe all the way from the mountains down to the river. >> we had to take it all the wood to the nearest port by so that took a day or so. and then from there, we had to take it to the capital of plane tond then to a paris. but first, it got stuck in ecuador because of troubles with the flight, i think. and then it got stuck in customs here in paris.

so it is been quite hard to get it all the way here. >> could you talk about the negotiations here at the top and you fill your voice is being heard inside the summit? >> i think indigenous peoples voices are the voices that should be heard. indigenous people should be inside the actual negotiations, but we are not. those who are actually -- theying right now might not have to live with consequences of climate change, but i will. my sisters, my little brother, and my children are all going to have to live with the consequences of climate change. decide overthey to my future over my sister's future, over my children's future? amy: nina gualinga of the sarayaku of the ecuadorian amazon, speaking to democracy

now!'s amy littlefield. special thanks to juan carlos davila for that report. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 p.o. box 693 new york, ne

captioning sponsored by annenberg/cpb narrator: the region of east asia is one of ancient cultures and modern economic growth. in japan, people are much affected by natural events, especially in rural areas.