06/02/16 06/02/16 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i'm not looking for credit, but what i don't want is when i raise notions of f dollars, have people say, like this sleazy guy right over here from abc, he is a sleaze in my book. you are a sleaze. you know the fact and you know them well. amy: donald trump lambasts the media for raising questions about what happened to millions of dollars he allegedly raised for veterans at a high-profile fundraiser in january.

we will speak to a member of the group vets vs. hate who protested outside trump's press conference in new york. then to minneapolis where the justice departrtment has annound no federeral charges will be fid against two officers involved in the shooting death of jamar clark, an unarmed 24-year-old african-americican man. >> highly trained agents and prosecutors worked for months to find and examine facts to determine if there was a criminal civil rights case that can be brought here. we have all concluded that no such case can be made. amy: we will speak to the co-founder of black lives matter minneapolis and lookok at how a black lives matter activist in california is facing up to four years in jail after being convicted of what authorities call "felony lynching." and we remember western saharan independndence leader mohamed abdelaziz and look at hihis decades long effort to gain

freedom for the last remaining colony in africa. >> the saharan peoples objective is independence, and that is a right we must address today. tomorrow, next year, in our time in our children's time. it doesn't matter when. the important thing is to achieve national independence. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. federal regulators are poised to unveil new rules that would rein in payday lending. payday lenders supply cash to low-income people who borrow against their future paychecks at high interest rates, often becoming trapped in a cycle of mounting debt. among other measures, the new rules would require lenders to ensure borrowers can actually afford to repay the loans. democratic national committee chair debbie wasserman schultz has sparked protests by backing bipartisan legislation to delay

the new rules for two years. the treasury department has moved to impose a new round of sanctions on north korea. the penalties, known as secondary sanctions, would target banks that conduct financial transactions with north korea, a move that could largely impact chinese firms. this comes as presumptive republican presidential nominee donald trump appears to have won support from north korea. an editorial in state media praised trump p a "wise politician." the head of hispanic media relations at the republican national committee has resigned in the latest sign of apparent opposition to donald trump's -- donald trump. trump has vowed to ban muslims from entering the united states, rapists mostcans , , recently, attacked a j judge overseeing a lawsuit against trump p university, saying the judge "happens to be, we believe, mexican." ruth guerra, who is of mexican descent, is reportedly departing the rnc after expressing discomfort with working for trump. meanwhile the pga is relocating , a major golf tournament from ,rumps golf course in florida

where it has been held for over half a century, to mexico. the organization distanced itself from trump after his comments on muslims. pga tour commissioner timothy finchem said they had difficulty securing sponsors. >> the decision made here was based on the reality that we were not able to secure's bonds are ship for -- sponsorship for --t year's tournament or for at the same time, we have the opportunity to build what we think will be a spectacular event in an area that is strategically important to the growth of the sport in the activity of the pga tour that has been focused in south american, central america, for the last number of years. amy: we'll have more on trump and the e recent controversy around his claims about donations to veterans after headlines. in syria, the town of daraya has receceived its first aid convovy

sisince a siege imimposed by the syririan government in 2012. the aid includeded baby formulu, vaccines and medications, but no , food. this comes amid mounting pressure for the united nations to air drop aid to besieged syrian areas. in texas, the brazos river has surged to its highest level in more than a century amid massive floods and rain. the flooding has killed at least six people and damaged hundreds of buildings. last month was the wettest in texaxas historory. scientists say heavy rains and floodsds are linked to climamate change.. in california, a ucla professor has been killed in what authorities described as a murder-suicide on campus. the victim has been identified as professor william klug. captain andrew neiman of the los angeles police department said the alleged gunman was also dead. >> it was determined that this is an isolated appearance within a small room within the engineering building. we have two adult male victims

who are dead from apparent gunshot ones. this may be what appears to be a murder-suicide. at this point, our robbery homicide investigators w will be taking over the investigation to try to determine what happened and what caused this event. amy: diplomats from across latin america and the caribbean have opposesed punitive action againt venezuela after the head of the organization of american states called for an emergency meeting over whether to suspend venezuela. supporters of venezuelan president nicholas maduro have criticized the oas for targeting venezuela over "grave alterations of democratic order," while ignoring the ouster of brazil's president in what many consider a coup. on wednesday, the oas permanent council backed a declaration supporting talks between the venezuelan government and right-wing opposition. the measure fell far short of calls by oas secretary general luis almagro for maduro to schedule a recall referendum that could remove him from power. jamaica's ambassador to the oas,

julia elizabeth hyatt, was among those to oppose almagro's handling of venezuela. unfortunate,le and but the secretary-general, in his response to the president of venezuela. we call on the secretary-general in carrying out and is duly described functions, communication at all times. amy: to see our interview with venezuela's ambassador to the oas, bernardo alvarez, go to democracynow.org. federal prosecutors have announced no charges will be filed against the two police officers involved in the fatal shooting of unarmed african american jamar clarkrk last fal. clark was shot in the head after a scuffle with officers who responded to a report of an assault. black lives matter launched an encampment to protest the shooting after multiple witnesseses say clark was shot while handcuffed. on wednesday, andrew luger, u.s. attorney for minnesota, disputed

that account. >> given the lack of bruising, the lack of mr. clark's dna on the handcuffs, and the deeply conflicted testimony about whether he was handcuffed, we determined that we could not pursue this case based on a prosecution theory that mr. clark was handcuffed at the time that he was shot. in fact, we reached the conclusion based on all of the evidence we reviewed that the evidence suggested that t mr. clark was not in fact handcuffed when he was shot. amy: we'll go to minneapolis for more on the shooting of jamar clark later in the broadcast. kenneth starr has resigned as chancellor of baylor universityy in texas. his resignation comes after he was demoted from his post as baylor's president last week amid a shakeup over the university's mishandling of reports of sexual assault by football players. the firestorm has also prompted the resignation of baylor's athletic director and firing of its head football coach. an investigation ordered by baylor's board of regents found officials discouraged reports of

sexual assault, treated the football program as above the rules and even retaliated , against someone who reported sexual assault. before heading baylor, kenneth starr was the special prosecutor who investigated president bill clinton over his attempts to cover up a sexual rerelationship with a white h house intern in e 1990's. and here in new york, farm workers have completed a 200-mile-long march from long island to the state capital albany to demand equal protection under labor laws. the workers converged on albany to rally support for a bill that would mandate overtime pay, union rights and one day of rest , each week. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war r and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen sheikh. nermeen: welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. presumptive republican presidential nominee, donald trump, is facing scrutiny this week after questions emerged over what happened to millions of dollars he allegedly raised for veterans at a fundraiser in

january. trump fell the fundraiser after he refused to take heart in a debate organized by fox news. at the time trump claimed he had , raised over $6 million, but a recent "washington post" investigation revealed that only about a half of the money was actually paid out to veterans groups. soon after "the post" article was published, trump began cuttining re checks. more than a dozen veterans groups reporteted receiving momy from trump over the past week. on tuesday, trump held a press conference to defefend his actions. >> i have raised a treremendous amamount of money foror the vets come almost 6 million dollars, and more money is going to come in i believe over the next little whihile, too, but i have raised almost $6 million. all of the money has been paid out. i have been thanked by so many veterans groups throughout the united states. when tillman called me up recently crying that out of the blue he got a check for $100,000. i have been thanked by so many groups, great veterans groups.

outside you have a few people picketeting sent by hillary clinton and they are picketing that the money was not sent. the money has all been sent. amy: donald trump went on to attack the news media for raising questions about the money. at the press conference trump called cnn's jim acosta "a real beauty" and abc news reporter tom llamas a "sleaze." not looking for credit, but when i r rse millionons of dollars, to haveve people say, like this sleazy guy right over here from abc. he is a sleazin my book. you are a sleaze because you know the facts and you know the facts well. nermeen: when a reporter asked trump if this is how he plans to conduct a white house news conference if elected president, trump replied, "yes, it is." meanwhile, in new york city, veterans rallied outside trump tower to denounce trump for using them as campaign props. perry o'brien, who served as a medic in afghanistan, criticized trump's rhetoric. >> i am here because when i

served in afghanistan, i served with women and muslims and latinos -- all groups that donald trump has maligned and even threatened. all of those folks actually donned the uniform and served their country. as far as we can see is veterans and the military community, donald trump only seems interested in serving himself. amy: well, for more, we're joined now by another member of vets vs. hate who was outside trump tower, julio torres. he is an iraq war veteran currently serving in the military as a chaplain's assistant. he is also a student at union theological seminanary. julio torres, welcome to democracy now! your thoughts on what happened inside the building as you are protesting outside. why were you there? >> i was there because my fellow veteran brothers and sisters decided to take a stand against trump's hate messages. inside he was talking about the $6 million he raised in making

arguments for that, but it is not about the money. it is about the integegrity he s shown or lack of integrity. myself and others stood up against that. we don't want to have our muslim brothers and sisters and latino brothers and sisters used as scapegoats, nor do we want to be used as props for hate. nermeen: you have suggested it is not just trump who uses veterans as props or pawns, but also clinton. >> my understanding with clinton -- has madehas used scapegoats other people in the past, and i have yet to hear her apologize for it. that upsets me greatly when she calls black people super predators, when she is against immigrants looking for work, when she mentions undocumented -- you know, the troubles they have. some veterans support her, but

myself, i do not. areess in the of the -- we against any of the heat speech by any of the candidates. amy: can you talk about what you did interact? >> i was military intelligence, mostly on a computer. we tried to figure out when we may get attacked by any of the groups out there. the times i interacted with iraqis or whehen they were heheg as janitors, very nice people. they just want to live in peace. amy: when donald trump said he would allow no muslims into the united states now? is upsetting to me. this is a country based on immigrants, and he is scapegoating a whole religion in many nations for the problems of some. that is upsetting. amy: let's go back to july when donald trump came under intense criticism from within his own party after he spoke dispararagingly about the e war record of republican senator john mccain, who was held as a prisoner of war in vietnam for

over five years. during an event in iowa a trump , said he did not viview mccaias a war hero. >> he is not a war hero. he was war hero because captured. i like people that were not captured, ok? i hate to tell you. he was a war hero because he was captured, ok? amy: unlike mccain, trump did not serve in vietnam. he received four student deferments between 1964 and 1968. julio torres, your response to what he was saying? >> it is shameful to say he is not a veteran because he was captured. amy: not a hero. >> not a hero, excuse me. who could be a hero in a war to begin with, but at the same time, to say he was captured is not a hero -- everyone is a hero that has done service for their country. domingo speaking about your own military service in iraq, initially you supported the war

in iraq but then came to change your mind. could you explain why? >> at the time i believed everything the government was saying. it turned out to be foolish in retrospect. when i found out the weapons of mass destruction was a lie, i had her breaking moment you with a call moral injury. especially as a military intelligence, i saw the reports and i thought there were legitimate so i thought, oh, the government was telling the truth. then i found out the government was telling lies. i had to look deepened everything else that was going on in the possible repercussions of these lies. then i started getting more involved with social justice work. going into the religious ministry, hopefully in the future, it made me reflect on all of that post up i could not be supported of the war effort. amy: as we wrap up, your feelings about this election season and what you're encouraging people to do? ,> as a member of vets vs. hate

i'm encouraging anyone to stand up against the hate messages. i support one candidate particularly, but i rather not mention. we are a partisan group. aterans should not be used as prop for hatred. we stand with our muslim brothers and sisters to matter what. amy: julio torres, thank it for being with us, veteran, member of vets vs. hate, serving as a chaplain's assistant. when we come back, w we go to minneapolis to find out about the killing of a 24 year old african-american man, jamar clark. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "little sparrow" by leyla mccalla.

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen sheikh. a shout out to the sixth-graders from thompson square middle school who have come to watch democracy now! today. nermeen: we turn now to minneapolis, minnesota where , federal prosecutors announced wednesday that no charges will be filed against the two police officers involved in the shooting death last fall of jamar clark, an unarmed 24-year-old african american. clark was shot in the head after a scuffle with officers who responded to a report of an assault. but multiple witnesses say clark was shot while handcuffed. this is u.s. attorney andrew luger speaking at a news conference wednesday. >> there are no winners here and there are -- there is no victory for anyone. a young man has died. and it is a tragedy. as a father with children the same age as jamar clark, my

heart goes out to his family and i told them so before this event. for the family, for the community, for the police department, and for the cause of justice, experieienced, highly trained agents and prosecutors worked for months to find and examine facts to determine if there was a criminal civil rights case that can be brought here. we have all concluded that no such case can be made. amy: in hennepin county attorney march, mike freeman also decided not to bring charges against officers mark ringgenberg and dustin schwarze, both white. in announcing the decision, freeman rejected multiple eyewitness accounts that clark was handcuffed and claimed that clark, at one point, had his hand on one officer's gun. jamar's cousin spoke out. i can't control the city. we are tired of this. y'all are supposed to be protecting and service.

y'all are killing us. you're getting away with it. amy: jamar clark's death sparked a series of protests in minneapolis, including a weeks-long occupation outside the fourth police precincnct ana protest during which white supremacists opened fifire on a group of black lives matter activists. for more, we're going to minneapolis to be joined by lena gardner co-founder and organizer , of the minneapolis chapter of black lives matter. welcome to democracy now! start off by responding to the decision not to charge the officers and then tell us who jamar clark was. >> well, first, thank you u much for h having meme on the s. first and foremost, our hearts go out to jamar's family. this is devastating news. it is really clear that there is no justice for black people in this country when it comes to the criminal justice system. time and again, we are denied justice and this is another example of that.

this announcement comes at a time when i believe we're under attack. the minneapolis -- the president of the police union came out calling us terrorist in the weight of this decision. we see activists in california facing felony charges for practicing the constitutional right to protest. folks to know that we're going to continue to fight. we're going to continue to build, and we want people to join with us in fighting to save black lives. jamar was a beloved person. he wasn't perfect, but he was loved by his family, his friends, and his community. it is really clear that we continue to hold his life and his name in our hearts as we continue to fight. nermeen: could you talk about how you pressured in an county attorney mike freeman dust hennepin countnty attorney mike

freeman to release the video of the killing? >> absolutely. there is a president in the criminal justice system to takee fatal police shootings to a grand jury system to make a decision whether to indict officers or not. we know that this does not work. and we know that it continues -- continually fails to brining officers into o accountabililitd it fails to deliver justice. we, along with several other groups and black led organizations here in minneapolis, including the twin cities coalition for justice for jamar and the naacp and minnesota neighborhoods organizing for change, you know, we have actions. folks had meetings with hennepin county attorney mike freeman, and wewe really spoke to him abt our concerns around transparency in the process and accountability. when a case goes to a grand

jury, it is done in secret. the evidence is not released to the public. we realllly wanted to know whats on those tapes. we believe transparency is one of the key ways that we can begin to hold police officers accountable and so we wanted to see that footage from the day jamar was taken from us. we were saying we wanted to see the tapes. so we just really drove that message home. there were actions every week. hennepin county attorney mike freeman decided to listen to that particular aspect of what we were asking to not send the case to the grand jury. he also committed to not send anymore fatal police shootings to a grand jury. however, there has been no substantive policy change that is permanent as far as we can see. so as soon as another hennepin county attorney is elected into office, we could see these cases

going back to grand jury's and it all being done in secret again. we still have work to do.o. we stillll have reforms and policies that we want t to see change becausese we are trtryino save black lives. amy: i want to turn to more comments made by the u.s. attorney attorney andrew luger at a news conference on wednesday. >> given the lack of bruising, the lack of mr. clark's dna on the handcuffs, and the deeply conflicted testimony about whether he was handcuffed, we determined we could not pursue this case based on a prosecution theory that mr. clark was handcuffed at the time that he was shot. in fact, we reached the conclusionon based on all of the evidence that we reviewed that the evidence suggested that mr. clark was not in fact handcuffed when he was shot. our second area a of focus was what happened when mr. clark and the two officers were on the ground. we wanted to know whether the available evidence would support

a finding beyond a reasonable doubt that the officers acted in a manner that was objectively unreasonable, even if mr. clark was not hahandcuffed. lena gardner, can you respond? >> yes, the first thing i want to say is i believe the people. i believe community. i believe when people tell me what they saw, i believe that over the accounts of police officers in any situation where they have killed a b black pers. you can see how even in his language talking about this case, he says jamar clark died. jamar clark did not die, he was murdered. he w was killed by thehe police. so i believe that when people say -- and we have countless witnesses that say that they saw jamar clark h handcuffed and thy saw -- shot him while he was handcuffed. i also know during the time in

the weeks after his killing, you had the president of the police union saying -- intimidating wiwitnesses publiclcly in the ma saying that people should be prosecuted if they came forward to speak. so when you hear aboutut conflicting details, i always wonder, or people scared? andd i think they were. when youave people in power, police officers who have the power, live in their communities and can harass them for sticking is a what they saw, that big problem. that is the kind of situation we are dealing with. and we need to believe community. we need to believe what people tell us. the second thing i really think is important to note is that there is a very specific interpretation of the events that h happened in orderer to protect the officers. and i believe e that the systems set up to protect officers, to

ensure that their version of evenents is given more credibily . there have been several articles that have come out since the findings -- since hennepin county attorney mike freeman made them pubublic that showed - i call into question the police version of events. for instance, the fact that we know, he it was, you was taken -- jamar clark was taken down by the police officer in a h hold that was violent, ia hold that is not approved by minneapopolis police deparartmet policy. and somehow, it seems -- things like that are nenever mentioned when we are hehearing from hennepin c county attorney mike freeman or andrew luger. this is a problem. i think k it points to -- i thik itit points to why the systetem contntinually fails blackck peoe and does not b bring about justice. amy: lena, where do you go from

here after the second investigatioion? the officers have not been indicted. >> right. from here, we're going to continue to build and contntinue to fight. we will not forget jamar. we will not forget his family. we're going to support them in their efforts. there is talk of a potential civil suit, pursuing a civil suit. we're going to continue to support getting justice, holding these officers accountable in some way and continue to fight for black lives and to save black lives. everyone's help in that. i hope that folks will join the local chapters all across the cocountry. i hope that people will stand up and fighght for us because we ae the ones saving black lives. we're the ones fighting for black lives. contrarry to what people like, you know, racacist president of the minneapapolis police union says, we are not terrorists.

we are protesters and we're fighting to save black lives. amy: melina abdudullah, thank yu for being with us coco-founder d , organizer of the minneapolis chapter of black lives matter. as we turn now to california, this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we go now to pasadena, california, where black lives matter organizer jasmine does organizer is facing up to four years in state prison after she was convicted of a rarely used statue in california law known up until recently as felony lynching. jasmine richards was arrested and charged for felony lynching last september after police accused her of trying to de-arrest someone at a peace march. at the time, she was one of the key organizers demanding justice for kendrec mcdade, a 19-year-old african american who was shot and killed by pasadena police in 2012 after officers . the arrest and jailing of a young black female activist on charges of felony lynching sparked a firestorm of controversy.

in fact, the laws and was so controversial that less than two , months before jasmine was arrested, california governor jerry brown signed into law legislation removing the word "lynching" from the penal code, amy: despite the change in the law's name, on wednesday, jasmine was still convicted of attempting to take a person out of police custody. her sentencing is scheduled for next week. she faces up to four years in prison. wewe go now to jasmine's lawyer nana gyamfi and melina abdullah. so until the final conviction, this was called felony lynching. what did jasmine do that got her convicted of this term felony lynching? >> thank you so much for having us on the show. jasmine did not do anything that was felony lynching or even

attempted felony lynching, which is what the charge was when she was arrested and as you indicated, up until this year. the allegations are that when the police e were attempting to arrest a person who was not related to the demonstration and the peace march that jasmine richards was having, that when they were trying to arrest that person, that she made some effort to get that person out of the custody of the police. what is very important to note is that there is a requirement that there be a riot, that are basically be a lynch mob that is assisting you in the lynching of the person that you're trying to take from the police. in this case, there was no riot. what you had were children on scooters and a couple of a dolls who were speaking up about -- couple of adults who are speaking up about police murdering unarmed people in pasadena, about the community

coming together to talk about investing in the community and not investing in the police. and this is clearly a political persecution could cap by the district attorney's office, the pasadena police department, and the pasadena city attorney's office in what we are referring to as the attempted lynching of jasmine richards. , did you talkmfi ababout the law or the previous law, felony lynching? >> the origin comes from the times which continue until this day because we've had wrenching's in california, but in this country even within the wouldear, when the police take a black person into custody and the lynch mob w would appea, take that black person from the police for the purposes of lynching that person. beating that person.

killing that person. hanging that person, burning that person. that is what the origin of this law is. therefore, to take back law that was used -- to take this law that was used allegedly to protect black people from being lynched and a turnaround and use this law against a black person who was actually speaking about the serial lynchings going on at the hands of police -- not just in pasadena but all over this country -- is more than ironic, it is disgusting. it is demeaning to what little integrity the criminal justice system may have. the district attorney's office of los angeles and jackie lacey, the black womoman at the head of the district attorney's office, has nothing to be proud of. she ought to be ashamed as well as the deputy district attorney that pursue this case christine key. amy: i want to go to jasmine richchards and h her own word in

this videoeo posted ononline lat year. >> jasmine richardrds. i am with h black lives mamatter pasasadena. i am an organizer, a fofounder f the lilike lives m matter pasas. it is actually located 15 minutes away from los angeles, right up the hill in northwest. i started black lives matter pasadena in january 2015. i felt like we did not have any committed to programs. there is been a lot of use killed by the pasadena police. kendrec mcdade is a youth i am specifically doing all of these actions around. leroy barnes was still by the pasadena police. our police have been notororious for bullying. pololice havechihild, harassed me, scared me. i note there first anand last nanames. i feel like we needed a group out here that stood up toto that injustice instead all of us

being scared and doing -- wasting our time and not organizing and sitting at the parks without any programs to help us, i felt like i should do something. amy: jasmine richards who started blacack lives matter in pasadena. melina abdullah, you are an organizer with black lives matter there. do you feel that jasmine was targeted for her political activity? and if you could talk about the significance of this conviction and what jasmine now faces. >> yes, jasmine was absolutely targeted in this arrest and many other arrests. pasadena has a relatively small suburb of los angeles. activism is usually significant because she comes out of an area of northwest pasadena where it is deprived of resources. and what her activism reaeally means and really signals is that people who were deprived of

resources have the capacity to look up and recognize that it is a system that creates these conditions. and that system, the system that creates state sanctioned violence, also deprives communities of resources. so when jasmine was awakened, she did a phenomenal job of also awakening all of the folks in her community. so as nana gyamfi described, she had children who were working with her. she had young people working with her. she had folks who maybe had been on the corner a week ago working with her and recognizing that the system needs to be transformed. so that poses a threat to the existing social order that wants to keep black poor people, especially, oppressed. bungee cords our or. jasmine is a political prisoner and represent probably the hugest threat to the state and that the folks at the bottom can

recognize their own oppression and rise up against it. there her conviction is usually significant because her conviction is not only about punishing jasmine richards, but also is the lynching. it is really disgusting and ironic that she is charged and convicted with felony lynching when the real lynching that is carried out is done in the same way it was carried out in the late 19th and early 20th century where it is supposed to punish those who dare to rise up against the system. but also, you leave the body hanging from a tree to send a signal to the rest of those black folks who might want to get out of line, and remind them that the state has more power than they do. but i think that in the end, what we see, we had a packed courtroom for the entire trial -- what we see is we are not going for this anymore. we are not going to let our folks be lynched.

we're not going to let our folks be murdered by the state. we are working continuously for justice for kendrec mcdade, for others, jamar clark, and all of those the state has murdered, but also for the freedom and the right to protest and really envision a new system that gets us free. and that is what we are going to do. we're going to struggle for justice for jasmine, abdulla. she is chosen that name jasmine abdulla. we're going to continue to struggle for her freedom because our freedodom i is bound up witr freedom. , could youna gyamfi talk about thehe makeup of the jury in jasmine richards trial? >> there were no black people on the jury that decided her case and out of 55 jurors, only two black jurors, which is very much below the representative percentage both of pasadena, which is 13%, and l.a. county,

which is eight or send. we asked for the jury to be dissolved at the very beginning faced upon the panel that we received. we ended up with a panel that was about half white, the rest of the folks on the panel were between the asian pacific islander community and others. it was clear it was not a jury anywhere near of jasmine's peers rs who aone the pee come to support. going back to those images, once again, it is the jury without black people that then decides that the lynching of jasmine abdulla is appropriate. and it can't be said enough times that this is a perfect example of what the criminal sanction system does to black people who dare to speak up, who dare to win, who dare to challenge the system and state sanctioned violence.

amy: i want to thank you both for being with us, nana gyamfi, attorney for jasmine richards, and melina abdullah, organizer with black lives matter a professor and chair of pan african studies at california state university. deaths ofme back, the the western sahara leader and what is happening in western sahara today. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: calles de dajla, "streets of dakhla," by aziza brahim. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace e report. i'm amy y goodman n with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: a leader of the independndence movement in westn sahara died tuesday. mohamed abdelaziz was the leader and co-founder of the polisario front movement, which has demanded independence ever since morocco took over most of western sahara in 1975. he was 68. the front has declared 40 days of mourning after which a new secretary-general will be chosen. this is abdelaziz speaking in 2009 in tindouf, algeria, where

he lived for over r 40 years. >> we are sure, as we are sure that god exists, that the saline people's objective is independence and that is a right we must address today, tomorrow, next year, in our time, in our children's time. it doesn't matter when. the important thing is to achieve national independence. the conditions we are living in, the weakness and policy and failures of ththe kingdom. the importance of the sovereign case and the world today in the focus of sovereign people on independence are indicators that victory is imminent. independence is imminent. nermeen: a 16-year-long insurgency led by the indigenous saharawi's polisario front ended with a u.n.-brokered truce in 1991. the resolution promised a referendum on independence which has yet to take place. morocco is only willing to grant limited autonomy to the disputed region.

84 countries, as falsely african union recognize western sahara , as an independent nation. nermeen: in march, morocco expepelled u.n. ststaffers from western sahara after secretary-general ban ki-moon referred to morocco's rule over the region as "occupation" during a visit to refugee camps in the algerian town of tindf, located in southwestern algeria. the expulsion of the 84 u.n. staffers has put at risk the ceasefire between morocco and the sahrawi people's polisario front. to talk more about the situation in western sahara, the death of the leader we're joined now by , two guests. sidi omar is ambassador-at-large of the polisario front. he joins us via democracy now! video stream from the valencia autonomous r region inin spain. and from san francisco, we're joined by stephen zunes, professor of politics and international studies and chair of middle eastern studies at the university of san francisco. he is the co-author ofof the bok

titled, "western sahara: war, nationalism, and conflict irresolution." we turn first to sidi omar. our condolences on the debt of your leader and the significance of hisis death for the people of western sahara and if you could start by just telling us who he was. > f first of all, thanknk yor much for y your kind words andnd -- k youou particulalarly leader.lost a great [indiscernible]

we have lost a great leader. of thethe creator saharawi state. , could youdi omar also say what you think is likely to happen next with the polisario front and when will another leader be elected and how? >> [indiscernible]

amy: we're going to turn out to professor stephen zunes in san francisco, has written a book about the western sahara. can you talk about the significance of mohamed abdelaziz in terms of his role in the struggle over these decades? you know, as a professor here in the u.s., how little people understand about the western sahara, so if you can talk about also it significance here in the whole dynamic between the united states and morocco. >> president mohamed d abdelaziz was not a defining figuree in te revolution. he was t that the equivalent of what y you meant or fidel casas. prpracticed of our collective

leadership. at the samee time,e, he played a very imporortant role in termsmf holding the movement together through a long and arduous struggle and like many liberation strugglgles, did not split into factions. they w were able to keep a cohesive unit both during the armed struggle e and rocco and subsbsequentlyly come in the diplomatic efforts to win recognition of so many countries to keep the issue, if not o on e frfront pages in the uniteded states, at least in the united nations and various regional organizations. and we're seeing the beginnings of an international solidarity movement as well. the united states has traditionally been a major supporter of morocco. france, even more so. collectively, they have prevented the united nations from forccing morocco to live up

to its resesponsibilities. initially, too withdraw and allw the people the right of self-determination, as was in the originall resolutions act in the 1970's,s, which are invested or the time bragged d in his autobiography by ththe way the unitited states was able to prevent these resolutions fromom actualally being enforced. more recently, the failure of the united states and france to allow the united nations to go ahead wiwith the refereendum tht would give the people of western sahara t the opportunity to choe incorporation into morocco oror indedependence, , as they have a right, as a recognized non-self-governing territory. nermeen: i want to ask about the non-violent protests by the saharawis against moroccan occupation. the protests are often filmed by media activists as they're disrupted by moroccan security forces.

protesters are often beaten and detained or simply disappeared. this video was produced by witness media lab. >> the journalists, observers, and activist who come from abroad are expxpelled. so what do we do? nermeen: protesters speaking out against the moroccan occupation of western sahara. special thanks to witness media lab and fee-sahara for the

video. stephen zunes, can you talk about the role of youth in thee independence movement in western sahara and if i just adjusted there might be a generational struggle as successors found for mohamed abdelaziz? >> as in south africa andd palestine duduring thehe 1980's, with the armed struggle, not making the kind of difference the people had hoped in terms of forcing a compromise and the a at aticic maneueuvers ststalemate, the am people insie the territory have taken the leadershipip in the struggle its been overwhelmingly nonviolent. given the factct the moroccan settlers now greatlyly outnumber the indigenous s saharawis insie the territory, there are some limits to the effectiveness of the nonviolent resistance as well.

result, there has been a great frustration among young saharawis who are at least as nationalistic as their parents in terms of the belief in self-determination of the right to independence, there have been calls for resumption of the armed struggle. legally and morally one could argue as an occupied territory, they certainly have that right. i believe it would be very dangerous and play into the moroccan narrative that these are terrorists and morocco being an ally, many western nations would accept that narrative, even though during the height of the armed struggle, polisario was careful to avoid any kind of civilian casualties. as a result, i think the only real hope would be to have a global civil society get involved, as we saw around d eat timor, which is a comparable situation, or of course, the anti-apartheid movovement in soh

africa. bds tigight movement, if you wi, is whahat we're saying reregardn palestine. it also help p bring the issue o the p people who o really coulde a differencece. those of us in the united states and other western nations that continue the moroccan occupation because while presisident mohamd abdelaziz''s death will not make a difference admittedly, it is a sign the founding g generatitios getting older and the youngeger generation arare demanding there be action because the cautious approachch that the elders have taken in recent years has not gogotten verery far in terms of allowing the refugees to come home and allowining the countryo achieve independence through referendum as promised by the united nations. amy: professor, you're speaking to us from san francisco, the california primary is about to take placece june 7.

the secretary of state -- former secretary of state hillary clinton. what is the role of the united states when it comes to morocco? how close is the u.s. with morocco and the u.s.'s stand onn the western sasahara? > morocco is a handful -- one of a handful of countries designated as non-nato allies. the u.s. has free trade agreement with morocco. the twoingly enough, upgrades, if you will, and relationship, took place right after moroccoco rejected thee fl security-- u.n. council fofor referendum, which many people determined as rewarding morocco o for its intransisigence. obama has t tried to be more neutraral, but is nonot been wig to pressure morocco or pressuree france -- morocco's principal the n necessary compromises. a lot of people are concerned that hillary clinton as

president will be closer to the french position, much more hard-line. she certainly showed that as a u.s. senator tom a as secretary of state in the internal discussions with the obama administration, to the probe roroccan line.e. shhas enendorsed thehe kingdom's dubious autonomy proposal, which we deny -- we denied the people of western say are the right to independence. and an example of how close they are, the chief under of the global clinton -- clinton global initiative foundation was largely funded by a state own phosphate company that is illegally exploiting the natural resources of w western sahara in violation of international law. thes an issue that if united states or other countries are going to do the right thing, the people are going to have to arend -- civil society

going to have to mobililize because cleaearly, the politicis are going to be prone to otherwrwise support the status quo. amy: the whole issue of the clinton foundation accepting a $1 million donation from ocp, fertilizizer giantnt owned by te moroccan government. the significance of this? >> it is a an example i thinkk f the closeness that both the corporate -- western corporations and as well as the military complexes of the country has madede it difficult fofor the united states and frae and others to take the kind of forceful action. in many waysys, it is comparable to israel, w which is also violating many u.n. resolutions but ultimately protected by y te u.s. t threat of a veto.

the close relationsnship, both personally rock and sat with leading politicians like hillary clinton in t these countries as well a as a should you took elation ship that morocco inititially was seen as s a gret cold war ally against the soviets and more recently as an ally and the so-called war on terror that ononce agagain we ae seeing this all-too-familiar phenomenon of narrowly defined should you took interest trumping basic principles of human rights and international law. nermeen: i want to go quickly to ambassador sidi omar.. could you tell us what the prospects are for a referendum being held, which is what the polisario front has been calling for, and what the problem is withholding a referendum? >> the basic problem in holding a referendum is the fact that having accepted the idea of a referendum back on amendment.

[indiscernible] -- ou mentioned, morocco [indiscernible] amy: ambassador, we have to

leave it there. i'm so sorry. also, condolences. stephen zunes, professor of university of san francisco. that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail you