>> extremely difficult, impossible thing to do in the early stages of their arrival in this has added a huge headache to what security services are already struggling with, an existing threat. we don't know what's going on in munich at the moment. we don't know the nature, the motivations of the attackers who innocent, once again, in the shopping mall in munich. motivations, their we don't know their identities. indeed, they're not even in custody so many questions and all this is speculation. viewers tuning in, that's the scene in munich, a underwayce operation

as authorities try to track down more gunmen in what is described as a terrorist suspected terrorist situation. it is unclear if there are fatalities. let's cross now to sarah from berlin. us? more have you got for sayingwe know police are eyewitnesses told them there were three shooters. this is very much an actctive situation. still looking for those shooters. they're tellining people in munh stay in their, apartments, avoid public places because they have not whoehended the people carried out this shooting at that m mall in the northern papt of munich. it's an active situation. we had reports earlier of fatalities. ththose were not confirmed by police. we've since seen backcktrackingn ththat. did confirm earlier that there were multiple injuries. sarah, in recent weeks, of

course, in light of what ago,ned just a few days but even before that, have there that suchwing sense an attack was likely and was there evidence of that in the of heightened security checks in public places? rather like what we have in france, entering shopping malls, your bag is searched. was that sort of thing becoming more routine and more e visiblen germany?y? sarah:h: specicifically security outside of shopping malls, i haven't seen anything like that in berlin. i don't think the security situation was as visible to the we did see the germaman minister told a nenewspaper on friday befofore e shooting that whilile there waso reason t to panic, it i is clear germrmany is a possible target r terror a attacks. we don't know what t the situatn is with what's happening in mumunich. police said earlier they were it possibly a a terror

attack, using very cautious language. early to speculate on motivavations but yet people in germany i think have resigned that aves to the fact terror attack here was likely. were saying we earlier is that this kind of incident and we don't know if it timeterror incident for being but it's going to feed into that sort of "told you so" the far rightll anti-immigrant groups, organizations, parties, of which there are a growing number there in germany, sarah. indndeed. the issue of refugees in the country is very contentious. that as soon a as merkel annonounced herr open-door poli, oft fueled a lot anti-i-immigrant sentiment, some weitical p parties to o say shouldn't be taking in refugees, we don't want people coming to and of course with the isack where the attacker

suspected of having been an refugee, unaccompanied brutalled -- brutally attatacked a family from hong kg train, feeding into the narrative that anti-immimigrant partieies in germamany have long upheld. anchor: fofor the benefit of our viewers, we're hearing from in bavaria,there they're asking people to leave munich, to getar off the motorways and we understand that public mununichation there in has been brought to a halt, presumably in an effort to zero in on the area and reduce the forer of possibilities viae assssailants to escapape ththe -- if indeed the highways are shut off, that reducecethe of people who will come in and go out of the munich area. thatis the scene close to

shopping mall, the olympia shopping mall, in the north off where we understand these shots s were fired at about 6:00 p.m. local time, just a couple of hours ago. here with me in the studio, melissa bell from international affairs. you're l looking at what's said online. >> very fluid situation. getting beginnings, lots of speculation, lots of rumors in these are always situations. what we know for sure for the policeing, tom, is that have confirmed they're doing with an acute terrorist situation, that the shooters are still out there, they still then't been caught, that shooting began just before 6:00 p.m. local time in that olympia mall, the shopping mall, which is the biggest in munich. unconfirmed reports there may have been violence elsewhere and witnessing violence

elsewhere but it's very difficult in times like this to what is precisely rumored, proggigated on social media, and what's confirmed. have suggested that a number of witnesses have said they've seen more than one three different shooters were seen by witnesses it appears that there are three active shooters currently munich.oked for in the police are trying to get a hold of. the local -- authorities have confirmed that three people have died but there from local media that, in fact, the death toll is higher than that although we no confirmed figures from authorities. what we have are unconfirmed reports that there may have been more than three people killed. sketchy for the time being. this is absolutely an evolving with multiple people have been done injured. that is what a police has said, with more

than one shooter involved. that's what we're hearing for time being and we're keeping an eye on this. of course, huge, huge panic, you imagine, in munich this evening. investigators have said seeing threeorted different people with long rifles in the shopping center. where are those men now and what are their intentions? the whole of munich is hoping to learn quickly. situation, antive acute terror situation to use the words of local authorities, little in the way of hard facts. tom: let's cross now to germany harms,ak to rebecca member of the german parliament, joining us from berlin. what more have you got for us on what's happening at the moment? munich.ot in i'm following from a village and maybe yourg

know more than i know but for since i followed the news iw since 1:30, i must admit, don't dare to judge what is the munich.n in channels,ferent news fox channel and specialized news channel, they are all in contradiction about what the says, what is witnessed commercialn the center, so at this very moment, sure whether we see an whether we seer a rampage. it's really unclear. and everything we're saying

everything we're seeing reported, being very cautious in terms of the language being used. so little that is clear. i have asked others this evening, was there a feel, that it was a question of time for such an attack, given so many other countries in europe have been the targets of attacks? rebecca: you know, most of the working and living in brussels and i'm not in germany. since i've faced the terror attacks in brussels since happened several times in france, i never possibility that we see similar situations in but what i see right now verynich is still

different compared to what happened in brussels or what happened in paris. of response do you think we can expect from the german authorities to what has there?d followed what has in -- what you i joined, so my impression is, because i was touch with some friends, munich is in panic where the place, but i also heard that the police immediately was available. prevent it but they came to the scene and in city, right now, everybody is helping everybody. situation of open

place wherein this minister president, from out of the country, they opened the placeor people around the the mainvacuated rightn but i think for now, facing maybe one or three attackers, police are everywhere, special units are on the way. a i think there is not complete cower. tom: the german interior minister is currently midair on way to the united states for his summer holidays. would you expect him to turn straight back on arrival? or do you think there's some thes to contact him aboard plane and for the plane to turn back? depends, i think,

on the result of the police investigations and so as i said, man, maybe -- so it's even not decided whether been three attackers or whether there was one to germanaccording news. was a gun this bavariani think the authorities are able to deal with it. in case we see a new situation i would judge it differently. tom: let me ask you what you reaction toossible this in terms of how the public reacts? we've seen in germany the rise of groups such as pegida and the alternative for germany, do you think this sort of incident, if inconfirmed to be terror, is the of thing to boost their

claimsity and make their for credible? sawcca: the worst terror we in germany, not now but 10 years terror, was right wing terrorists. we followed developments in our neighboring the terrorut also in attacks in turkey or in iraq, so german authorities got ready for these situations and i think everybody knows, it's the same all over the european member states. are betternwhile limits of thehe

national police. case,hink it's still the what everybody who is honest, yes, we see a new it'stion of terror but someone is ready to risk his life to attack other people, we cannot really guarantee 100% safety and security. tom: thank you so much for sharing that with us, rebecca harms, german member of the european parliament. let's take you to the scene in itself where there is a situation.ding shots were fired earlier this evening at a shopping mall and that there are fatalities although we are unable to confirm how many. authorities are being extremely cautious in terms of the informatation they're

munich police the saying an uncertain number of dead and wounded. we've heard from about u.s. president barack obama vowing u.s. support of germany in light shooting, coming a week or so from a previous incident suspecteda sympathizer of the islamic state group who attacked tourists aboard a train, injuring kong and the hong authorities urging people in munich to stay indoors. public transport has been halted into thatys leading city are being sealed off, presumably to prevent people in and going out and therefore narrowing the search area. here we me is melissa bell from affairs desk.nal melissa, have you got any latest out for you on

social media? >> lots of speculation, many questions on social media about whether there may have been shootings in other parts of the city with witnesses coming like this, at times you will hear all kinds of things that turn out later not to have been true. there is a panic that sweeps people up, as you can imagine, at a time like this. know for nonow is what the police have told us, which is that there was a shooting in this shopping mall, the biggest justnich, that began before 6:00 p.m. local time. we're hearing from eyewitnesses crowded at they time so you can imagine scenes of panic once gunshots were you mentioned the killing on monday. this is, if it turns out to be a and that'sttack another thing we're hearing from police, they believe this is an acute terror situation so it an terrorng attack even in the early hours which is interesting. if it does turnn out to be what police are saying that it is, which is a terrorist situation, it is the second in a week and you can

imagine the fear that people feeling, the insecurity that germans will be feeling. we've not seen the sorts of terrorist attacks we've not -- germany overl in the course few months. we've had three major ones here. the germans are now facing their second in a week if police are a terroristis is situation. we are also hearing there is the than one gunman on loose and it is three gunmen that have been seen and are actively searched for. the death toll is uncertain. is we've had from police confirmation of three deaths but speculation from eyewitnesses outlets is that the death toll will turn out to be higher than that. allnow, they're taking precautions, stopping traffic getting in and out of munich. central rail station has can see on and you

the images, the police operation up and going with slightly stunned people standing around waiting for news and reassurance likeways they do in times this, extremely anxious times for germans watching this unfold and if the terrorist situation, the terrorist scenario with islamist extremist turns outs behind it to be the one that proves correct, then this will take on meaning because it's taken place in germany, a country that has welcomed such a number of migrants. as we were hearing a moment ago, has had huge controversy from the far right saying enough is enough. you could imagine that this sort of incident, if it turns out to will play intoo, those fears. this is something we have been talking about in france the last in the context of nice. french intelligence,

just a few weeks ago, the minutes of the meeting were published two days before the nice attack on july 14 and made for chilling reading. france's internal intelligence suggested that used as all, a vehicle a weapon was likely to be the next step and so it proved and also perhaps much more scareily, was his fear was not about the next attacks but one or two more terrorist attacks, he warned -- we're talking about france here -- the fear of internal french intelligence services was the far right would carry out its own sorts of attacks and warned m.p.'s listening that sizzlet his fear was bore. inclearly security services europe are worried about a rise from the far right taking to the carrying out violent acts in response to the sorts of things we've seen in nice and paris over the course of the months so if indeed

this turns out to be a terrorist launched, coordinated, planned by men with islamist inspired byr jihadist causes, that will prove a tremendously worrying turn of events in a country where the tensions over the migration crisis have been greater than been in france the last few months. tom: indeed. we've seen large rallies in cities like dresden. the pegida rallies and there german society and angela merkel's action has been internationally but criticized at home. she sits on an increasingly fragile popularity rating within her own country because this issue that had been considered courageous, her stand considered so courageous at the beginning, has rather come back haunt her. she's been much-criticized for it and the consequences of her policy have been looked

at in a new light over the course of the last few months. of populism all over europe, including the united kingdom, much laid at the feet of angela merkel and of course in germany, lots of criticism for whathe chancellor was considered an extremely courageous move. what are its consequences and flack she takes if this turns out to be motivated by the cause of jihaddism or indeed carried out by people that security services track of. we mentioned a moment ago the other attack this week in shocking one, carried out on a train with an talking about a boy who had come from afghanistan, precisely in the of migrants. this is already an issue she's having to face. with what's happening in munich, you can expect a wider and broader debate and one that is likely far from cool over the few days.

tom: this s is the scene in munh right now, the latest information we're getting from the german authorities is that citinggzine "focus" is the police as sayaying that onef reported totors is have shot himimself in the head nearby the shopping mall, there inhopping center munich. that's one thing we're hearing from the local authorities who citizens to stay inside and authorities using carefully worded language a likelely this as terrorist situation and not us any details at this stage as to how many people are killed although it is suspected that a number of -- there are a number of fatalities but we are to confirm just how many there are. let's go back to our correspondent in berlin. sarah, tell us the latest you're hearing there. sarah: you said it, the focus

report is t the latest. yetce have not confirmed it so i can't confirm it for you but it's a developing situation. we know based d on earlier repos that police are probably looking three shooters anand they basically have the city on lockdown. transit isn't working. they're trying to close the highways and they're telling tople to stay inside, a, keep them safe, but also to make the search for the suspects easier. tom: of course there is a huge police presence there on the streets of munich and we mediatand from the local forces --p police police officers will be the from other parts of state to help them because of the massive manhuntnt. do you get the impression that drills and the like have been out in recent months,

given that the threat of a terrorist attack has been elevated in recent m months? sarah: of course, i'm in berlin, from munich and am not privy to the preparations that or the police have been doing but i think we can assume based on what german politicians have been telling us, german leaders in recent are expectinghey and are preparing. tom: i'm going to interrupt you. i want to take you straight to listenice in germany, to in to what they're saying. >> what stage has the operation reached? know if the gf-9 is the present.

>> yes, indeed, we have it on the screen. have taken certain measures but we don't have any other regarding the .ituation we will inform you as we know many people will be intervening. there aresituation, always lots of rumors. would say, what i cannot confirm anything, i cannot say stage.g else at this suspects aree that roaming and are a danger to the population, of course. told you, if somebody

enters the shopping center with a weapon, it's something we very seriously. it's one of the most serious had to deale've with for over a dozen years. the worst worst-case scenario? first of all, the population have confidence in its police. the munich police is very good. we mustn't let rumor run rife. media, unfortunately, are spreading half truths so a lot of people are calling us. we ask you to let us s get on wh work and as soon as we have confirm theme will immediately and we will police,ate them to the to the media and to the .opulation of munich

for the moment, we are looking three suspects. several statements

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