08/04/16 08/04/16 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracacy now! >> i don't t think it makes any difference. the tpp is going to go through whether it is donaldld trump or hillary clinton, or will continue whehether it is trumppr clinton.n. wewe're not goingng to gett our privacy y back whether it is unr clinton or trump. >> equating donald trurump and hillary clinton i is absolute nonsense. anybody y who equates t the twof them is not paying attention, and it is dangerous kind of talk.

amy: today, a fiery debate between pulitzer prize winning journalist chris hedges and former labor secretary robert reich over the 2016 presidential election. hedges has endorsed the green party's dr. jill stein while , reich is backing clinton after endorsing bernie sanders during the primaries. in florence influence. how foreign money is flowing into the u.s. election system. >> we uncovered a foreign controlled corporation owned by a chinese national concluded a large amount of money to a prpresidential campaign superr . this is the first definitive proof that thanks to the citizens united decision, foreign money has entered our federal election system. amy: we will speak to lee fang, co-author an explosive new series in the intercept. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in election news republican

, presidential nominee donald trump's campaign appears to be in turmoil, with widening divisions both inside the trump campaign and between trump and republican party leaders. on tuesday, trump's running mate indiana governor mike pence endorsed house speaker paul ryan in his wisconsin congressional race after trump refused to endorse ryan earlier this week. instead, trump has praised ryan's opponent in the race, saying he was "running a very good campaign." ryan's opponent, paul nehlen, has defended trump's attack on khizr and ghazala khan, the parents of a u.s. army captain who died serving in iraq in 2004. congressmember ryan however, , publicly distanced himself from trump over the comments. trump's refusal to endorse ryan comes amid reports trump's campaign staff are beginning to panic.c. on monday, trump's campaign announced the firing of two senior advisers, including longtime republican strategist ed brookover, who had been trump's liaison to the

rnc. then on wednesday, a trump campaign staffer told cnbc trump's staff were suicidal and that campaign manager paul manafort was unable to control trump and was "mailing it in." this comes as a number of top republicans have said in recent days they would support trump's rival hillary clinton. on wednesday, newt gingrich -- who until two weeks ago was considered a possible running mate for trump -- criticized trump. >> still behaving like as though it was the primaries and there were 17 candidates. he has not maybe transition to being the potential president of the united states, which is a much tougher league. ople are going to watch every single day and take everytything they can out of context. he has -- is not yet performing at the level you need to. amy: later, newt gingrich walked back his comments, saying he was behind trump 100%. at a campaign rally in florida yesterday, trump sought to assure voters his campaign was fine. mr. trump: i would say right now it is the best in terms of being

united that it has been since we began. we are doing incredibly well. we are leading in the state of florida. you saw the polls. we are leading in ohio. we are about tied in pennsylvania, but i think we will be leading the next time -- so i think we have never been this united, and i just want to thank everybody for being here. this is incredible. amy: as hillary clinton campaigned on wednesday, she used a visit to colorado tie factory to chastise donald trump for making ties in china. she said -- meanwhile, trump's grasp of foreign policy has come up repeatedly as a potential issue if he were elected president. on msnbc on tuesday, host joe scarborough made this troubling claim about trump. , aseveral months ago

foreign-policy expert on the international level went to advise donald trump. three times he asked about the use of nuclear weapons. three times he asked. at one point, if we have them, why can't we use them? amy: joe scarborough made the claim during an interview with former cia director michael hayden. hayden also expressed concern about how erratic trump is. the green party presidential convention begins today in houston, texas. the agenda includes workshops on abolishing constitutional rights for corporations and how to run for public office. the presumptive green party presidential nominee and her running mate, ajamu u baraka, wl . in more election news, progressive candidate pramila jayapal has won a congressional primary in washington state with 38% of the vote. jayapal was one of the first candidates to receive an endorsement from bernie sanders. she has championed initiatives that include expanding social security benefits, debt-free

college, and a $15 minimum wage. her win follows other congressional primary victories for progressives, including zephyr teachout in new york and jamie raskin in maryland. meanwhile, in a congressional primary in kansas on tuesday, two-party congressmember tim huelskamp lost in a landslide to john marshall, a political novice. congressman huelskamp was a part of the right-wing freedom caucus, which battled repeatedly with former house speaker john boehner. a widely circulated photo showed boehner toastiting to huelskam's defeat. the obama administration said on wednesday the $400 million in cash paid to iran the same day as the release of americans detained there was not a ransom as some republicans have charged. the five hostages, including "washington post" reporter jason rezaian, were released in january. the white house had announced before the hostages' release that it would send iran $400 million in funds as part of the landmark nuclear deal.

the money has been oh to iran since the 1970's when the u.s. refuse to give them weapons they had ari paid for. but the timing and nature of the transfer was only first reported in the "wall street journal" this week, fueling allegations it was linked to the release of the hostages. civil rights groups, the justice department and the state of , texas have reached an agreement over the state's voter id laws. a federal court ruling last month ordered the law be changed after finding it discriminated against african american and latino voters. texas residents will now be allowed to cast ballots in november's election even if they have none of the sevenen identifying documents that the law had required. this comes less than a week after courts nullified a similar voter id law in north carolina, and ordered wisconsin to expand its list of valid id cards and do away with other voting restrictions. the supreme court has blocked a court order requiring a virginia school district to accommodate a transgender student's request to use the male restroom. a virginia appeals court ruled in favor of high school student

gavin grimm in april, saying the federal law title ix protects the rights of students to use the bathroom that corresponds with their gender identity. but on wednesday, the supreme court blocked this ruling, saying it wanted to "preserve the status quo" until the court decides whether to hear grimim's challenge to the school board. wednesday's announcement marks the first time the supreme court has become involved with the issue of transgender bathroom rights. a federal judge has ordered a coroner's office notot to publiy release an autopsy report on the death of alton sterling, the african american man shot and killed by police officers in baton rouge, louisiana. east baton rouge parish coroner beau clark said it is the first time in his three years as coroner that a court order has sealed one of his office's reports. sterling's death sparked nationwide protests against police brutality. meanwhile in maryland new , details have emerged in the police shooting of an african-american woman after an armed standoff. police say they shot and killed

korryn gaines monday after she pointed a rifle at them. her five-year-old son was in the apartment with her and was injured by gunfire. police initially said they enentered korryn gaines's apartment with a key obtained from her landlord. but court documents say police kicked down the door. police were at gaines's apartment to execute an arrest warrant relateted to a traraffic violatioion. police have e not said whoho fid the shshot that injured gaines's son. turning to north korea, where the government launched a ballistic missile on wednesday that crashed into the ocean near japan. it is the latest in a series of test launches by north korea and comes as a decision by the u.s. to place an anti-missile system in south korea has raised tensions in the region. in south korea, daily protests against the deployment the u.s.'s thaad missile system continued into their second week today. residents of seongju county, southeast of seoul, have held daily demonstrations since their area was announced as the location for a missile base. the south korean government says it needs the missiles to counter threats from north korea, but

not all south koreans agree. this is south korean national assembly member kim han jung. fight motivation of the of the residence is that only about protecting their own interest and they're not fighting alone. they fight for peace and the korean peninsula, for the good of their homeland. amy: in the philippines, police, military, and vigilantes have killed more than 400 people in a crackdown against drug crime since president rodrigo duterte took office a month ago. human rights groups say many of those killed have been summarily shot or had nothing to do with the drug trade. more than 100,000 people have turned themselves in to police for drug offenses to avoid the prospect of a violent arrest. prior to his e election, duterte admitted to his role in death squads, joked about the gang rape of an australian missionary, anand pledgeto kill tens of thousands of people. president obama commuted the sentences of 214 federal prisoners wednesday. the white house says it is the

largest numbmber of prisoners granted clemency on a single day in at least the last 100 years. almost all of those released had been convicted of nonviolent drug crimes. to date, obama has commuted the sentences of 562 federal prisoners more than the previous , nine presidents combined. and missouri's lead publicc defender has ordered missouri governor governor jay nixon to represent a defendant this month and efefforts to protest governor nixon's refusal to fund the public defender's office. public defender michael barrett said he was using a provision of state law that allows him in -- to delegate legal representation to any lawyer in missouri. nixon is a lawyer. barrett said the governor has repeatedly declined to give the public defender system the money it requests and is withholding promised funding increases this year. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

a week ago today, hillary clinton made h history by becomg the first woman to accept a major-party presidential nomination. but clinton is not the only woman running for president this year. the green party's national convention opens today in houston, texas and dr. jill , stein is expected to win the nomination. last week, juan gonzalez and i hosted a debate between the pulitzer prize winning journalist chris hedges and former labor secretary robert reich about the presidential race. hedges has endorsed stein. reich is backing clinton after endorsing bernie sanders during the primaries. reich served in bill clinton's cabinet as labor secretary from 1993 to 1997. he now teaches at uc berkeley. we began the debate by asking robert reich about whether the democratic party would unite behind hillary clinton or whether a group of sanders supporters would g go on to back dr. jill stein. >> it is hard to tell what

delegates are going to do ann hard to o tell for e even hardeo tell what t the electorate e is gogoing to do. you know, this is a very agonizing time for many bernie sanders suppororters. i, with a great deal of reluctance initially, becausee i've known hillary clilinton for 50 years -- 50 years - -- endord bernie sanders and worked my heart out for him, as many, many people did. and so at thihis particular juncture, there's a great deal of sadadness andnd a great dealf feeling g of regret. but having worked so long and so many years for basically the progressive e ideals that bernre sanders stands for, i can tell you that the movement is going to continue. in fact, it's going to grow. and right now, at this particular point in time, i just don't see any alternative but to support hillary. i know hillary. i know her faults. i know her strengths.

i think she will make a great president. i supported bernie sanders because i thought he would make a better president for the system we need. but nonetheless, hillary clinton is going to be the nominee. i support her. and i support her not only becaususe she will be a gogood president, if not a great presidident, but also, frankly, because i amam tremendously worrieied about t the alternati. and the alternativive, really, s a prpractical matter, is somebey who is a megalomaniac and a bigot, somebodody who willll set back the progressive movement decades, if not more. amy: chris hedges? >> well, reducing the election to personalities is kind of infantile at this point. the fact is, we live in a system that sheldon wolin calls inverted totalitarianism. it's a system where corporate power has seized all of the levers of control. there is no way to vote against the interests of goldman sachs or exxonmobil or raytheon.

we've lolost our privacy. we've seen, under obama, an assault against civil liberties that has outstripped what george w. bush carried out. we've seen the executive branch misinterpret the 2001 authorization to use military force act as giving itself the right to assassinate american citizens, including children. i speak of anwar al-awlaki's 16-year-old son. we have bailed out the banks, pushed through programs of austerity. this has been a bipartisan effort, because they've both been captured by corporate power. we have undergone what john ralston saul correctly calls a corporate coup d'etat in slow motion, and it's over. i just came back from poland, which is a kind of case study of how neoliberal poison destroys a society and creates figures like trump. poland has gone, i think we can argue, into a neofascism. first, it dislocated the working

class, de-industrialized the country. then in the e name of aususteri, it destroyeded publicc institutions, educatioion, publc broadcasting. and then it poisoneded the political system. and d we are now watchining, in polandnd, them create a 30,000 o 40,000 armed militia. you know, they have an army. the parliament -- nothing works. and i think that thihis politicl syststem in the united states hs seized up in e exactly the same form. so is trumump a repugnanant personalality? yes. although i wouould argue that tn , terms of megalomania and narcissism, hillary clinton is not far behind. bubut the e point isis, we've go break awaway frorom -- which is exexactly the narrative they wat us to focucus on. we've got t to break away frfrom political personalities s and understand and examine and critique the structures of power. and, in fact, the democratic party, especially beginning under bill clinton, has carried water for corporatate entities s

assiduously as thehe republican party. this is something that ralph nader understood long before the rest of us and d stepped out vey courageously in n 2000. and i think we will lolook backn that period and find ralph to be an amazingly prophphetic figure. nobody understandsds corporate power better than ralph. and i think now people have caught up with r ralph. and this is, of course, why i support dr. stein and the green paparty. we have to r remember r that 10 years ago,o, syriza, which controls the greek government, was polllling at exactly t the e spot that the green party is polling now -- about 4%. we've got to break out of this idea that we can create systematic change within a particular election cycle. we've got to be willing to step out into the political wilderness, perhaps, for a decade. but on thehe issues of climatete change, on the issue of the destruruction of civil libertit, including our right t to privacy -- andnd i speak as a former

investigative journalist, which doesn't exist anymymore becausef wholesale government surveillance -- we h have no ability, except for hackers. i mean, this whole d debate ovor the wikileaks s is insane. did russia? i hahave printed classssified material that was given to me by the mossad. but i nenever exposed that mossd gave it to me.e. is what was publisished true or untrue?? and the fafact is,s, you know, n those long emails -- you should read them. they're appalling, i including calling dr. cornel west trash. it is ---- the whole -- - it exs ththe way the e system was rigg, within -- i'm m talking about te democratic party -- the denial of independents, the superdelegegates, the stealing f the caucus in nevada, the huge amounts of corporarate money and super pac's that f flowed into e clinton campaign. the fact is, clilinton has a trk record, and it's one that has abandodoned children. i mean, she and her r husband

destroyed welfare as we know it, and 70% of the original recipients were children. this debebate over -- i don't le trump, but trump is not the phenomenon. trump is responding to a phenomomenon created by neoliberalism. and we may get rid of trump, but we will get something even more vile, maybe ted cruz. amy: robert reich, i remember you on democracy now! talking about your time as labor secretary when president clinton signed off on welfare reform, and you described walking the ststreets of washington,n, d.c., wondering where the protests were, that you had vigorously objected. and it was also an issue, a bill that hillary clinton h had susupported. so can you respond to chris hedges on n these three points, including, so you take a walk in the political wilderness for a little while? >> well, amy, it's notot just taking a walk in the politicalal wildlderness. if donald trump becomes president, if that's what you're referring toto, i think it is --

there are irrevocablble negative changes that will happen in the united states, including appointmentsts to the supreme court,t, that will not be e ju political wilderness, that will actually chahange and worsen the structure of thihis country. i couldn't agree w with chris hedges more about his crcritiqu, overalall, of neoliberalism m aa lot of thehe structural prprobls that we face in our political economy today. i've written aboutut them. t i've donone more than writite about them. i've actually y been in the cenr of power, and i i have been doig everything i possibly can, as an individual and also as a mobilizer and d organizer of others, to try to change what we now have. i thinink thatat voting for dond trump or equating hillaryy clinton with donald trump is insane. donald trump is certainly a prproduct of a kind of system ad a systemematic undermining thatt has occurred in the united states for years with regard to

inequality of income and wealth and political power. but we don't fight that by simply sayining, "all right, les just havave donald trump and hoe that t the system improves itsef and hohope that things are so bd ththat actually people rise up n armed resistance." that's insane. that's crazy. what we have to do is be -- we have got to be very, very strategic as progressives. we've got to look at the long term. we've got toto understand that bernrnie sanders brought us much further along than we were before the sanders campaign. we owe a lot to bernrnie sander, his courage, his integrity, his power, the f fact that most peoe undeder 30 voted for berniee sanders. in fact, i if you look at thee people who voted for bernie sanders undeder 30, thatat was e people than voted for donald trump and hillary clinton together u under the age of 30. we are building a progressive

movevement in this countryry. but over the next four years, i don't want donald trump to irretrievably make it difficult, if not impossible, for us to move forward with that progressive movement. now, i understand hillary clinton is not perfect. i've known her, as i said before, for 50 years. i met her when she was 19 years old. i know her strengths, and i know, pretty well, her weaknesses. she is not perfect. and as chris says, you know, she is also very much a prododuct of many of the problems structurally in this country right now. we fight those structurall problems, yes. hand in hand, chris, with you, shoulder t to shoulder -- i'm my short, maybe it's mymy shoulder, and it's your rib cagege -- butt doesn't matter. we continue to fight. i will continue to fight.. mamany peoplple who are watchind listening will continue to fight. we must continue to momobilize. i hope bernie sanders does what he implied h he would do last night -- that is, carry the

movement forward, lend his name, his energy, his email list. this is s not the end of anythi. but we have gogot to be, at thee same time, very practical about what we're doing a and very strategic about what we're doing. ththis is not justst a matter rf making statements. it's a matter of a actually working with and t through, , ad chananging the structure of powr in this country. juan: chris, i'd like to ask you -- you've written that liberals are tolerated by the c capitalit elites because they do not question the virtues of corporate capitalism, only its excesses, and call for tepid and ineffectual reforms. could that have also have been said of fdr in the 1930's? because you were one of the folks who did not back bernie sanders from the beginning. >> well, i didn't back b bernie sanders because -- and kshama sawant and i had had a discussion with him before -- because he said that he would work within the democratic structures and support the nominee.

and i think we have now watched bernie s sanders walk away from his political moment. you know, he -- i think he will come to deeply regret what he has done. he has betrayed these people who believed in ththis political revovolution. we heard this same kind of rhetoric, by the way, in 2008 around obama. a political campaign raises consciousness, but it's not a movement. and what we are seeing now is furious spin. i listened to ben jealous just do it. and they are tolerated within a capitalist system, becauause, ia moment l like this, they are usd to speak to people to get them to betray their own interests in the name of fear. and i admire robert and have read much of his stuff and like his stuff, but if you listen to what he's been sayining, the

message is the same message of the trump campaign, and that his fear. and that is all the democrats have to offer now and all the republicans have to offer now. and the fact is, from climate change alone, we have no time left. i have four children. the future of my children, by the day, is being destroyed because of the fact that the fossil fuel industry, , along wh the ananimal agriculture indust, which is also as important in terms of climate change,e, are destroying the ecosystem on which we depend for life. and neither party has any intention to d do anything about it.. amy: what should bernie sanders have donone? >> bernie e sanders shshould hae walked out and run as an independent. and dedefied the democratic par. amy: take e up the invitatioionf dr. jillll stein -- >> yes. >> she offered to let him run on the top of the ticket. that's what he should have done. and the factct is, you know, les nonot forget that bernie has a very checkered past. he campaigned for clinton in 1992.

he campaigned for clinton again inin 1996, aftfter nafta -- the greatest betrayal ofof the workg class in this country since the taft-hartley actct of 1948 -- after the destruction of welfare, after the omnibus crime bill that exploded the prison population, and you know, we now have -- i mean, it's just a monstrosity what we've done. 350,000 to 400,000 p people locd in cages in this country are severely mentally ill. half of them never committed a violent crime. that's's all bill clinton. and yet he went out and campaigned. in 2004, he called on nader not to run, to step down, so he could support a war candidate like johohn kerry. and d i'm listening to jealous before talk about the iraq war. 60% of the democratic senators voted for the war, including hillary clinton. the idea that somehow democrats don't push us into war defies american history. amy: robert reich? >> well, all i c can say is that

at this particular point in time ---- i mean, again, many o of te things that chris hedges is saying i completely y agree wiw. the real question i is, what doe do rightht now? and what do we do toto mobilize and organize a lot of people out there who right now are not mobilized and organized? and how do we keep the energy building? i didisagree w with chris with reregard to bernie sanders. i think k bernie sanders hasas n a great and is a g great leader riright now of the prorogressive cause. what i think we e ought to do is develop a a third party outside the e democratic and republican partieies, maybe the g green pa, so that t in the year 2020, four years from now, we have another candidate -- it may be berninie sasanders. i think he is probably gogoing o be too old by then. but we have a candidate that holds the dedemocrats accountab, thatat provides a vehiclcle fora

lot ofof the energy ofof the bee sanders movement to continue to develop, that fields new candidates at the senate, in congressss, at the state level, that actually hoholds democrats' feet to the fire and rerepublicans' feet to thehe fi, that develops an agenda a of getting big money out of politics, and severing the linkk between extraordinarily coconcentrated wealth anand political power in this country. that's what we ought to be doing. now, we can -- but in order r to do that, w we cannotot have -- , you know, i think that hillary wiwill be a good p president, it a a great prpresident. this i is not just truckcking in fear, chris. but i i do fear donald trump. i fear the polls that i saw yesterday. now, p polls, again, thihis earn a campaign still -- we're stilil months away from thehe election, but they are indicatative. they show donald t trump doing

exceededingly wewell, beating hillary clinton. and right now, given our two-o-party system, given ourr winner-take-all system with regard to the electoral college, it's just too much of a risk to go and to say, "well, i'm going to vote -- i'm n not going to ve for the lesser of two evils, i'm going to vote exactly what i want to do." well, anybody can do that, obviously. this is a free country. you vote what you -- you vote your conscience. you have to do that. i'm just saying thatat your coconscience needsds to be aware that if you do not suppoport hillary clinton, you are increasing the odds of a true, cleaear and present t danger toe united states, a menacace to the united states. and you're increasing the possibilility that thehere willt bebe a progrgressive movement, e will not be anything we believe in in the future, because the united states will really be changed for the worse. that's not a -- thatat's not a risk i'm prepared to takake at this point in time.

i'm going to move -- i'm going to do exactly whatat i've been doining for the last 40 yeyears. i'm going g to continue to beaty head a against the wall, to buid anand contribubute to building a progressivive movementnt. the daday after election day, im going to try to work with bernie sanders and d anybody else who wants to work in strengthening a third paparty -- andnd again, me it's the green party -- for the year 2020, and d do everything else i was just talking about. but right now, a as we leaead uo election day 2016, i must urge eveveryone whoho is listening oo is watching to do whateverer thy can to make surere that hillary clinton isis the next president, and not donald trump. and robert reich chris hedges. we will return to the debate in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we return to our debate between former labor secretary robert reich and journalist chris hedges, one gonzalez and i spoke to them last week during the democratic national convention. chris hedges was with us in philadelphia. robert reich joined us from the university of california berkeley for he teaches. we statarted this section with a clip from donald trump nomination speech at the republican national convention. mr. trump: i have seen firsthand how the system is rigged against our citizens, just like it was rigged against bernie sanders. he never had a chance. never had a chance. but his supporters will join our movement, because we will fix his biggest single issue -- trade deals that strip our country of its jobs and strip us of our wealth as a country.

millions of democrats will join our move because we are going to fix the system so it works fairly and justly for each and every american. juan: that wasas donald trumpp talking at the convention in cleveland. robert reich, interestingly, donald trump and chris hedges agree on one thing, that free trade deals that the -- that both the republicans and democrats have negotiated over the past few years, especially nafta, have been disisastrous fr the american people. you were part of the c clinton administration when nafta was passed. talk about this, the impact that trump is utilizing among white workers in america over the issue of freree trade. >> well, donald trump p is cleay using trade and also immigration

as vehicles for making the people who have really been hurt by trade, by globabalization, fl that he is going to somehohow be on their s side. he's not going to be on their side. trump is right in a very, , very narrow respect, that tradede has hurt very vulnerable people, working-class s people. the burdenens of trade have been disproportionately fallen on thosose people who used to have good unionized jobs in america. and d the failure of nafta and also t the wto, the e world trae orgaganizationon, chinese ascenn into the wto, all of those clinton-era programs -- - the fafailure was, numbeber one,e, o haveve nearly strong enough and enforcrceable enough labor andnd environmental side agreements. number two, not to have adjustment mechahanisms here in the unitited statetes for peoplo lost their jobs to help them get good j job that werere new jobs,

for the jobs they lost. the winners in trade c could hae compensated ththe losers and stl come out ahead, but t they did not. and that is a structurural, political problem in this country ththat we hahave to add. it is also a problemem with regd to technological displacement. it's not just trade. technology is displacicing and will continue to displace and will displace even more good jobs in the future, , but we hae absolutely no stratetegy for dealing with that. and right now, the burdens of technological didisplacement are falling, once again, on the working middle class, lower-income people, who have very, very few altlternatives, driving a greater and greater wedge between those who are lucky enough to be -- to have rich parents or bebe well educad or be well connecteded, and everybody elelse. we cannot go on like this. this is unsustainable. and donald trump and b bernie

sanderers are symptomatic, their rise, are both symptomomatic of this great wave of antiestatablishment anger thatas flooding american politics, although on the one side you have authoritarian populism, and on the bernie sanders side you have a political revolution. i prefer the political revolution myself. i'm going to continue to work for that political revolution. >> well, i think we have to acknowowledge two facts. we do not liveve in a functionig democracy, and we have to stop pretending thahat we do. you can't talk about -- when you eviscerate privacy, you can't use the word "liberty." that is the relationship between a master and a slave. the fact is, t this is capitalim run amok. this whole discussion should be about capitalism. capitalism does what it's designed to do, when it's unfettered or unregulated -- as it is -- and that is to increase profit and reduce the cost of labor. and it has done that by

de-industrializing the country, and the clinton administration, you know, massively enabled this. and we're sitting here in philadelphia. the last convention was in cleveland. these are potemkin villages, where the downtowns are disneyfied, and three and four blocks away people are living in appalling poverty. we have responded to surplus labor, as karl marx says, in our de-industrialized internal colonies, to quote malcolm x, by putting poor people of color in cages all across the country. why? it's because surplus labor -- corporate entities cannot make money off of surplus or redundant labor. but when you lock them in a cage, they make $40,000 or $50,000 a year. this is the system we live in. we live in a system where, under section 1021 of the national defense authorization act, the executive branch can put the soldiers in the streets, in

clear violation of the 1878 posse comitatus act, to see -- carry out extraordinary rendition of american citizens who are deemed to be, "terrorists," strip them of due process and hold them indefinitely in military facilities, including in our black sites. we are a country that t engagesn torture. we talk -- robert talks about, you know, building movements. you can't build movements in a political system where money has replaced the vote. it's impossible. and the democrats, you knonow, their bedside manner is different from the republicans. you know, trump is this kind of grotesque e figure. he's like the used car salesman who rolls back the speedometer. but hillarary clinton is like, u know, the managers of f goldman sachs. they both engage in criminal activities that have -- and clinton's record, like trump, exposes this -- that have preyed upon the most vulnerable within

this country and are now destroying the middle class. and to somehow speak as if we are in a functioning democracy, or speak as if there are any reststraints on capitalism, or speak k as if the democratatic y has not pushed forward this agenda -- i mean, obama has done this. you know, he has been as obsequious to o wall street as e bush administration. there's no difference. amy: robert reich? >> chris, you know, i -- again, i find this a frustratining conversationon, becaususe i agre with so much o of what you have said, but the question i is: wht do we do about it? i mean, we are in a better positition today, in the sensese thataternie sandnders has helped mobilize, organize and energizie a lot of ameriricans, and educad a lot of americans about the very issues that y you have tald and written about and i have talked and written about. but it is -- the question isis: what is the action? what is the actual political

stratetegy right now? >> well, let me -- let me answer that. >> and i i tnk the politicical >> letet me answswer that.t. >> welell, let me just -- lelete just put in my two cents. i think political strategy i is not to elect donald trump, to elect hillary clinton, and, for four years, to developop an alternative, another bernie sanders-type candidate with an independent party, outside t the democratic party, that will l te on hillary clinton, assuming that s she is elected and that e runs for reeeection and d that , also develops the infrastructurere of a third pary that is a true, new progressive party. >> well, that's s precisely what we're trying t to do.. there is a point w where you hae to -- do i want to keep quoting ralph -- b but where you have to draw a linine in thehe sand. and that's part of t the problem with the left, is we haven't. i covered ththe war in yugoslaa, and i find many parallels between what's hapappening in te united s states and whwhat happd with the breakdodown of yugoslavia.. what is it that caused this

country to disintegrate? it wasn't ancient ethnic hatreds. it was the economic meltdown of yugoslavia and a bankrupt liberal establishment that, after the death of tito, until 1989 or 199090, spoke in the language of dedemocracacy, but proved ineffectual in terms of dealing with the plight ofof working men and women who were cast out of state factories, huge unemployment and, finally, hyperinflation. and the fact is that these neoliberal policies, which the democratic party is one of the engines for, have created this right-wing fascism. you can go back -- this proto-fascism. you can go back and look at the weimar, and it -- republic -- was very much the same. so it's completely counterintuitive. of course i find trump a vile and diststurbing and disgusting figurere, but i don't bebelievet voting for the democratic establishment -- and remember that this -- the twowo

insurgencies, both within the republican party and the -- were against figures like hillary clinton, who spoke in that traditional feel-your-pain language of libeberalism, while assiduously serving corporate power and selling out workingg men and women. and they seeee through t the co, theyey see through the game. i don't actualally think bernie sanders educated the public. in fact, bernie sanders spoke for the first time as a political l candidate about t te reality the public was experiencing, because even barack obama, in his state of the union address, was talking about economic recovery, and everything was wonderful, and people know that it's not. and when you dispossess -- >> well, let me -- let me -- >> let me just finish. let me finish. when you dispossess that segmenent, as large as we have - half the country now lives in virtual poverty -- and you continue to essentially run a government that's been seized by a cabal, in this case, corporate, which uses all of the machinery of government for

their own enrichment and their own further empowerment at the expense of the rest of the citizenry, people finally react. and that is how you get fascism. that is what history has told us. and to sit by -- every time, robebert, you speak, you d do exactly y what trump does, w whh is fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. and the fact that we are going to build some kind of -- >> well, let me -- let me try to >> amorphous movovement after hillarary clinton -- i it's just they way it works.s. >> let m me try to inject -- let me -- let t me try to inject - let me try to inject some hope in here in this discussion rather than fear. i've b been trtraveling g aroune country for the last two years, trying to talk to tea partiers and consnservatives and mamany people who are p probably goingo vote f for donald d trump, to to understand what it is that they are doining and how they v view america and why they'r're acting in ways that are so obviously

against their self-interest, both economic self-interest and other self-interest.t. and here's the interesting thing i found. this great antiestablishmement wave that is occurring both on the e left and t the right has a greaeat overlap, if you will, ad that overlap is a deep contempt for what many people on the right are calling crony capitalism. in fact, many people on the left have called crony capitalism. and those people on the right, many, many working people, they're not all white. many of them are.. many of them are working-class. many of them have suffereded frm trade and technological displacement and a government that is really turning its back on them, they feel -- and to some extent, they're right. many of them feel as angry about the currenent system and about corpororate welfare and about bg money in politics as many of us on the progressive side do. now, if it is possible to have a

multltiracial, multiethnic coalition of the bottom 90% that is ready to fight to get big money out of politics, for more equality, for a systemem that is not rigged against average working people, where there are not going to be all of these redistributions s upward from those of us who hahave paychecks -- and we don't even realize that larger and larger portions of those paychecks are going to big industries, conglomerarates, concentrated indndustries that have great market power, bececae it's all hidden from view -- well, the more coalition building we can do, from right to left, multiethnic, multiracial, left t and right, o builild a movement to take back our ececonomy and to take back r democracy, that is -- juan: robert reich -- robert reich, i'd just like to interrupt you for a second, because we only have a minute left, and i just wanted to ask chris one last question. in less than a minute, if you can, regardless of -- you're

voting for jill stein, other folks are going to vote for clinton and trump. where do you feel this massive movement that has developed over the last fewew years, this p pee movement, would have a better opportunity to grow. under a trump presidency or under a clinton presidency, assuming that one of those two will eventually be elected? >> i don't't think it makes anyy difference. ththe tpp is going to o go thro, whether it's donald trump or hillary clinton. endless war is going to be continueued, whether it's trumpr clininton. we're not going to get our privacy back, , whether it's u r clinton or trump. the idea that, at this point, the figure in the executive brananch exercises that much power, given the power of the war industry and wall street, is a myth. the fact is -- >> equating g -- i'm s sorry. juan: eveven on immigration? >> what? juan: even on immigration? >> what?t? on immigration? i mean, let's look at obama's record on immigration. who's worse? amy: we've got 10 seconds.

>> i mean, you know, you can't get worse than obama. >> and can i just say somemethi? amy: robert rereich, 10 secondn. >> i just t want to say, equatig donald trump and hillary clinton is absolute nonsense. i just -- anybody who equates the e two of them is not payingg attention. and it's dangerorous kind of ta. >> that's not what i -- that's not what i did. amy: we're going to have to leave it there, but this is a discussion that will continue. amy: that debate held during the democratic convention. chris hedges is a pulitzer prize-winning journalist, his most recent book "wages of rebellion." robert reich served under president clinton at the university of california -- is a professor at the university of california berkeley. today the green party convention opens in houston, texas. to get a copy of the show, g goo democracynow.org. only come back, an expose on the u.s. foreieign influence. ststay with us.. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and

peace report. i'm amy goodman. six years ago, president obama warned the nation that foreign corporations could soon pour money into the u.s. election system thanks to the supreme court citizens united decision. obama made the warning during his 2010 state of the union speech as members of the supreme court looked on. pres. obama: with all due deference to separation of powers, last week the supreme court released -- reversed a century of law that i believe will open the floodgates for special interests, including foreign corporations to spend without limit in our elections. [applause] pres. obama: i don't think american elections should be bankrolled by america's most powerful interest, or worse, by foreign entities. they should be decided by the american people. and i would urge democrats and

republicans to pass a bill that helps correct some of these problems. amy: that was president obama speaking in 2010. now for the first time, direct evidence has emerged showing a foreign company has indeed donated money to a federal campaign. documentation obtained by the intercept shows a company owned by chinese nationals donated $1.3 million to jeb bush's super pac after receiving advice from a prominent republican lawyer. on wednesday, the intercept published a multi-part series looking at the actions of two chinese citizens living in singapore who own a u.s.-based firm called american pacific international capital that has ties to the bush family. jeb's brother, neil, serves on the corporation's board. the intercept reports suggest there might be more such instances of foreign contributions as the 2016 election has witnessed a surge of contributions to super pac's by so-called ghost corporations, whose ownership remains unknown.

to talk more about the expose we , are joined by the intercept's lee fang who co-wrote the series "foreign influence." don't you start off by talking about how citizens united opened up the floodgates for money come in now in fact, foreign money, and were super pacs fit into this? the citizens united rolled back about 100 years of campaign finance law, basically, doing two things. one, allowing corporations and unions to spend unlimited amounts in this election and, two, separating the way we look at campapaign finance -- no lonr can we trace all donations back to individuals. corporations and other legal entities good contribute unlimiteted amounts. amy: so talk about this many month investigation that you

have done. again, how super pacs fit into this and open up the floodgates. >> we worked on this for several months. i wrote this with my colleague john schwartz and a freelancer along with a fantastic team at the intercept of researchers and editors. we simply looked at some of the largest corporate donations to presidential super pacs, and tried to find out their ownership structure. by chance, we found thahat one f the largest corporate donors to the jeb bush super pac right to rise was owned or is owned by two chinese nationals. their permanent residents of singapore. they gave $1.3 million to the jeb bush super pac. they were advised by one of the most prominent republican campaign lawyers in the country, who has a very long history in big-money politics,s, and advisr

to george w. bush's campaign, to the republican governors association. he helped set up a massive m mit romney super pac. he set up the jeb bush super pac. he and fact wrote a memo ththats essentntially a roadmapap for hw foreign controlled domestic corporations may give in u.s. federal elections. a, setting all of the e paramets and roles inviting these types of donations. ththis was not an ananomaly. he wrote this memo that we obtained and published with the story in februruary 2015. the donation from the american pacific international capital company -- the company controlled by two chinese foreign nationals -- - dividedd their $1.3 million donation to monthb bush super pac one later. amy: explain who this couple is. chen,don tong and serena

chinese nationals. they amassed their wealth living in southern china. they had in import/export business with various goods they sent abroad. they now have a very large diversified company that has a biofuel refinery, various investment properties, a luxury towers, malls, other commercial property in southern c china, malaysia, singapore, and over the last seven years, they have been amassing a large portfolio in the u.s. as well. amy: and jeb bush's brother of a george w. bush's brother, neil bush sits on the board of apic? >> that's right. neil bush was appointed to both apic's board and a sister covenant also controlled by gordon tong. we don't know the compensation

the apic, but through singapore stock exchange, we know that neil bush has been paid at least $700,000 for serving on the board. he is been a prominent kind of figurehehead for the comompany, appeing on company documents, giving speeches, and appearing in the singapore media o on behf of the company. amy: and how does gordon tong also connect with the former governor of washington? >> this is an interesting angle to the story. in addition to providing the first doctor in a case of a foreign controlled corporation giving to an american super pac, presidential election vehicle, this is also a story about incredible influence peddling. gordon tong and discover new worked meticulously to gain u.s. political friends as his brother-in-law called it, bring u.s. politicians to his

ribbon-cuttings and also soliciting the help from gary locke, the former governor of washington am a former secretary of commerce for obama, and the former u.s. ambassador for obama to china. inke worked briefly for apic 2008 went into government serving the obama administration , and while serving as ambassador to china, was looking to sell his house and sold his home in bethesda to tong's family for $1.6 million. it was a very unusual transaction for a sitting ambassador to sell their home to a foreign national of the country they were serving in. amy: i want to get in exchange between elaine yu. he offered her a briribe. this is an excerptptm an audioio recording from t their exchange.

>> i will come to hongng kong lateter interview w a red packef $200,000 so we can be friendnds. amy: that is gordon tang sticking to intercept reporter elaine yu.

he called her from the airport saying he has a red envelope for her. >> get a traditional chinese envelope for giving gifts, but he offered what is essentially a bride not to report certain aspects of the story, offering 200 thousand dollars in unspecified currency. amy: what was he so concerned about? collects allegations about a company controlled at was investigated for smuggling and tax evasion. amy: was implicated? >> members of his family and his business were implicated. amy: we will do part two. is it is the link k the x was a. we want to really dig into it. you can watch it at [indiscernible] democracynow.org lee fang an investigative , journalist at the intercept covering the intersection of money and politics. his recent series is headlined "foreign influence." that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

8úxú laura flanders. we've been inin philadelphia, te site of refuge,e, rebellilion, d remote -- and revolt. there has been a letter debate at the democratic national convention.. lots of action o on the coconven floor at the w wells fargo aren, as well as on the streets. hillary clinton made history inindispably, becocoming the presidential nominee of the democratic partyty. the first woman. her opponent, bernie sanders said he ga