10/05/16 10/05/16 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democrcracy now! >> look, donald trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosures -- which is what a what the law requires. >> gentlemen, i need ask about social security -- >> richard nixon -- >> gentlemen -- the people at home cannot understand either one of you. that you wait until the

other is finished. any company only must presidential debate of the 2016 raise, tim kaine squared off with mike pence at longwood university in virginia. we will air highlights from our "expanding the debate" special in which we gave green party presidential candidate ajamu baraka a chance to respond in real-time live during the debate to the same questions posed to kaine and pence. >> on the issue of taxes, i'm more concerned about the fact we have a number of corporations, multinational corporations based in the u.s., that historically do not pay any taxes. we have the issue of individuals , rich individuals able to avoid taxes but we also have these multinational corporations based in the u.s. that are avoiding taxes to the tune of several hundred billion dollars. amy: all that and more, coming

up. welcome to democracy now!, democracacynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. at least 11 people are feared to be dead in the caribbean after the massive category-4 hurricane matthew slammed into haiti and the dominican republic tuesday with winds of up to 145 miles per hour and torrential downpours. it's the strongest storm to hit the caribbean in neaearly a decade. in haiti, matthew has killed at least four people and displaced thousands more across a country still recovering from the devastating 2010 haitian earthquake. the storm also knocked out most communicatations across haititid flooded d a major bridge connecting southern haiti to the rest of the country. the united nationsns has warned the hurricane poses the greatest humanitarian threat to haiti since the earthquake six years ago. the hurricane has also hit the bahamas and cuba, u.s. military evacuated 700 employees, and some familily pets, , from the v

base at guantanamo bayalthough it did not evacuate the 61 prisoners held there. the storm is now hurtling toward the u.s. coast. in anticipation, multiple governors have declared states of emergency and south carolina gogovernor nikikki haley has ord the evacuationf f coastal regionons inhabiteted by more ta million people. meanwhile, in south korea, typhoon chaba has killed at least five people after it made landfall wednesday, flooding out south korea's main port and major cities. the typhoon is now hurtling toward japan. scientists have linked the increasing intensity of hurricanes and typhoons to climate change. in election news vice-presidential candidates , virginia senator tim kaine and indiana governor mike pence squared off tuesday night in the only vice-presidential debate. it was held at longwood university in farmville, virginia, and moderated by elaine quijano of cbs news. the debate was tense with kaine frequently attacking pence over

the proposals and character of his running mate, donald trump. >> i will just say this, we trust hillary clinton, my wife and i, with the most important thing in our life. we have a son deployed overseas in the marine corps right now. we trust hillary clinton as president and commander-inin-chief. the ththought of d donald trumus commander-in-chief scares us to death. amamy: governor pence defending donald trump's refusal to release his tax returns and new revelations that suggest trump could have avoided paying taxes for up to 18 years. this clip p begins with senator kaine. >> why won't he release his tax returns? >> we're answering a question about the business and. >> i do want to come back -- >> his tax returns showed he would through a very difficult -- he withdrew very difficult time that he used it the weight is is supposed to use it brilliantly. talks how do you know that? amy: third party vice presidential nominees were excluded from the debate. but on tuesday night, democracy now! expanded the debate.

after every question answered by the major-party vice-presidential candidates mike pence and tim kaine, we paused to get response from green party vice-presidential nominee ajajamu baraka. we will broadcast a part of this expanded debate after headlines. in more campaign news, a fight broke out at a donald trump campaign rally in prprescott, arizona between a trump , supporter and an anti-trump protester there have been tuesday. episodes of violence at trump rallies throughout the campaign, which many have linked to trump's rhetoric. in march, three anti-trump protesters sued donald trump, arguing he incited a riot at a rally in louisville, kentucky, causing them to be attacked by his supporters after he repeatedly called on the crowd to "get them out, get them out." in indiana, state police have raided indiana's largest voter registration office. the intercept reports nearly a dozen police officers searched the indianapolis offices of the

indiana voter registration project, seizing multiple computers and workers' personal cell phones. the police say the search is related to an ongoing investigation into possible voter registration fraud. but organizers say the operation was an attack on voter registration efforts in the republican-controlled state. former president bill clinton is trying to wawalk back his commes in which he called obamacare monday "the craziest thing in the world" while campaigning for hillary clinton in flint, michigan. >> the people getting killed in this deal are small business people and individuals who make just a little too much to get any of these subsidies. why? because they're not organized. they don't have any bargaining power with insurance companies. and they are getting whacked. so youou have this crazy systemr all of the sudden 25 million more people of help erin people are busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with the premiums doubled in her coverage

cut in half. it is the craziest thing in the world. amy: on tuesday, bill clinton attempted to walk-back his comments by saying obama's signature legislation did a world of good. former employees of the email giant yahoo say yahoo secretly scanned the contents of hundreds of millions of email accounts and turned the documents over to the nsa or fbi. in order to do so, yahoo secretly built a special software program specifically designed to search every single users' emails for keywords provided by the u.s. government. if true, the practice represents the first known time a giant e-mail company searched all arriving e-mails in real time at the behest of the u.s. government's domestic surveieillance programs. this comes as newly revealed documents show how the justice department subpoenaed open whisper systems, the maker of the popular encrypted messaging application signal, in efforts to get a wide range of information about two phone numbers and then imposed a gag

order on open whisper systems preventing the company from , talking about it. the encrypted application maker did not turn over the desired information because the company does not store such information about its users. the justice department sought the information in early 2016, but it's only coming to light now because the gag order has been lifted. in charlotte, north carolina, police have released the full body camera video of the fatal police shooting of african american father keith lamont scott. the 16-minute video shows scott lying on the ground, handcuffed, with multiple bullet wounds from the police shooting. the video does not show scott with a gun as the police have claimed, although officers did twice make refeference ta gunn duri thehe video. north carolina i ian open-cacay state. this i is scott's family lawyer, justin bamberg. >> i can tell you that it is very difficult to watch.

it is difficult for our wives to watch. -- for a wife to watch. what you're seeing is real life. you see mr. scott on the ground. you see him handcuffed. and you see a human being, a lose his life.band amy: keith lamont scott's killg has s arked massive prestsn charlotte as wl asas nationdede. anwhile, the new york poce departrtme has aitted not a sile one of its 34,800 officersre currelyly wring a dy camera. on monday, the nd d saidt picked a compa to o prove out t 50 body c''s to the force, buto contractas b bee sied. in poland, as ma as s 6 miion women pourednto the e reets for a a nationwide protest mondy opposing proposals to completely ban abortions across poland. already by law, polish women are only allowed to access an abortion if the child is the result of rape or incest, or if their lives are in danger as a

result of the pregnancy. but the new proposed laws would make all abortions illegal and punishable by up to five years in prison for the mother. doctors could also be jailed for providing abortions. the catholic church in poland is supporting the proposed ban. in mexico, two students from the ayotzinapa rural teachers college in the southern state of guerrero have been killed by gunmen on tuesday. the attack came after gunmen stopped a bus traveling to the town of tixtla. at least one other person was killed and three others wounded in the attack, including an 8-year-old boy. it's not known who the gunmen were. meanwhile, also in mexico, a group of women who were reportedly kidnapped, tortured, and raped by mexican police officers 10 years ago have now taken their case to the inter-american human rights court. the events occurred in san salvador atenco in the state of mexico. the women were kidnapped amid

two days of popular protests in may 2006 after police cracked down on a group of female flower sellers. the current president of mexico, enrique pena nieto, was the governor of the state of mexico at the time. this is barbara mendez, a survivor of the sexual torture. >> durining the detention and during transportation, i was tortured physically, psychologically, and sexually. i was caught up in the penal process for more than 2.5 years. it wasas a very heartbreakaking experience and it has lefeft a g impact on my life to be detained and tortured under these conditions. amy: in minnesota, thousands of nurses have voted to remain on right into a second month as they demand a contract that includes safe staffing ratios and the hospital groups security in the right to retain their union backed health insurance plans. more than 4000 nurses are currently participating in the strike which began septembmber 5 -- exactly a month ago. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and

peace report. i'm amy goodman. vice presidential candidates republican mike pence and democrat tim kaine faced off in longwood university in farmville, virginia, tuesday night in their first and only debate before next month's election. the first and only vice presidential debate. pence is the governor of indiana and a former congressman. tim kaine is the junior senator from virginia and virginia's former governor. third-party vice presidential candidates, including libertarian william weld and the green party's ajuma baraka, were excluded from the debate stage under stringent rules set by the commission on presidential debates, which is controlled by the democratic and republican parties. on tuesday night, democracy now! aired a special "expanding the debate" broadcast where we gave major third party candidates a chance to respononto the samame questions in real time as the major candidates. the green party's ajuma baraka

joined us live from richmond virginia. libertarian vice presidential candidate william weld did not respond to our invitation. ajamu baraka is a longtime human rights activist and the founding executive director of the u.s. human rights network and coordinator of the u.s.-based black left unity network's committee on international affairs. today we air highlights from our expanding the debate special. we begin with moderator elaine quijano of cbs news. >> senator kaine, on the campaign trail, you praised secretary clinton's character, including her commitment to public service. yet 60% of voters do not think she is trustworthy. why do so many people distrust her? is a because that questions about her e-mails and the clinton foundation? mr. kaine: elaine, let me tell you why i trust hillary clinton. here's what people should look at as they look at a public servant. do they have a passion in their life that showed up before they were in public life? and have they held onto that passion throughout their life, regardless of whether they were in office or not, succeeding or failing?

hillary clinton has that passion. from a time as a kid in a methodist youth group in the suburbs of chicago, she has been focused on serving others with a special focus on empowering families and kids. as a civil rights lawyer in the south, with the children's defense fund, first lady of arkansas and this country, senator, secretary of state, it's always been about putting others first. and that's a sharp contrast with donald trump. donald trump always puts himself first. he built a business career, in the words of one of his own campaign staffers, "off the backs of the little guy." and as a candidate, he started his campaign with a speech where he called mexicans rapists and criminals, and he has pursued the discredited and really outrageous lie that president obama wasn't born in the united states. it is so painful to suggest that we go back to think about these days where an african-american could not be a citizen of the united states. and i can't imagine how governor pence can defend the insult- driven selfish "me first" style

of donald trump. >> governor pence, let me ask you, you have said donald trump is "thoughtful compassionate, , and steady." yet 67% of voters feel he is a risky choice and 65% feel he does not have the right kind of temperament to be president. why do so many americans think mr. trump is simply too erratic? mr. pence: well, let me -- let me say first and foremost that, senator, you and hillary clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. it really is remarkable. at a time when literally, in the wake of hillary clinton's tenure as secretary of state, where she was the architect of the obama administration's foreign policy, we see entire portions of the world, particularly the wider middle east, literally spinning out of control. i mean, the situation we're watching hour by hour in syria today is the result of the failed foreign policy and the weak foreign policy that hillary clinton helped lead in this administration and create. the newly emboldened -- the aggression of russia, whether it was in ukraine or now they're heavy-handed approach --

mr. kaine: you guys love russia. you both have said -- mr. pence: their heavy-handed approach. >> well, we're going to get to russia in just a moment. but i do want to get back to the question at -- mr. pence: but in the midst -- elaine, thank you. thank you. thank you, senator, i'll -- mr. kaine: these guys have praised vladimir putin as a great leader -- >> yes, and we will get to that, senator. we do have that coming up here. but in the meantime, the questions -- mr. pence: well, senator, i must have hit a -- >> why the disconnect? mr. pence: because at a time of great challenge in the life of this nation, where we've weakened america's place in the world, stifled america's economy, the campaign of hillary clinton and tim kaine has been an avalanche of insults. look, to get to your question about trustworthiness, donald trump has built a business through hard times and through good times. he's brought an extraordinary business acumen. he's employed tens of thousands of people in this country. mr. kaine: and paid few taxes and lost a billion a year. >> and why the disconnect with your running mate? mr. pence: but there's a -- there's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of

hillary clinton. and that's because they're paying attention. i mean, the reality is, when she was secretary of state, senator, come on. she had a clinton foundation accepting contributions from foreign governments. mr. kaine: you are donald trump's apprentice. let me talk about this -- mr. pence: senator, i think i'm still on my time. mr. kaine: well, i think -- isn't this a discussion? >> this is our open discussion. mr. kaine: yeah, let's talk about the state of -- mr. pence: well, let me interrupt -- let me interrupt you and finish my sentence, if i can. the clinton foundation accepted foreign contributions from foreign governments and foreign donors while she was secretary of state. mr. kaine: ok, now i can weigh in. mr. pence: she had a private server -- >> senator, you have an opportunity to respond. mr. kaine: governor pence -- governor pence doesn't think the world's going so well and he, you know, is going to say it's everybody's fault. mr. pence: do you? mr. kaine: let me tell you this. when hillary clinton became secretary of state, governor pence, did you know that osama bin laden was alive?

do you know that we had 175,000 troops deployed in the battlefield in iraq and afghanistan? do you know that iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon and russia was expanding its stockpile? under secretary clinton's leadership, she was part of the national team, public safety team that went after and revived the dormant hunt against bin laden and wiped him off the face of the earth. she worked to deal with the russians to reduce their chemical weapons stockpile. she worked a tough negotiation with nations around the world to eliminate the iranian nuclear weapons program without firing a shot. mr. pence: eliminate the iranian nuclear weapons program? mr. kaine: absolutely, without firing a shot. and instead of 175,000 american troops deployed overseas, we now have 15,000. mr. pence: right and -- mr. kaine: these are very, very good things. mr. pence: and iraq has been overrun by isis, because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate -- mr. kaine: well, if you want to put more american troops in iraq, you can propose that. mr. pence: hillary clinton -- hillary clinton -- hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement -- amy: we're going to bring greeen party vice presidential nominee ajamu baraka i into this discussion. if you can respond to governor pence and senator kaine?

mr. baraka: i think we're seeing a dramatic example why the people of this country dislike and distrust both of these major candidates and the rest presidential running mates -- vice presidential running mates. we have this bickering as opposed to getting to the real issues to debate for the american people. there is a reason why they're both distrusted because i think the american people understand that both represent the politics of the establishment. the status quo. that the american people are very distrustful of. they see him in fact, the middle east has spun out of control. we see that hillary clinton led the attacks on a number of countries, including libya. led the justifications for destabilizing syria. they see that donald trump has

his bombastic rhetoric regarding carpet bombing in the middle east and attacking this nation and that nation. and they are sick of it. many people in this country are prepared to support of these candidate and the only peace candidate in this race is in fact the green party. this kind of bickering and these kinds of personal attacks as opposed to having a serious conversation about the critical issues that face this country, issues of war and peace, is a perfect example of why more and more people are looking beyond these two parties and looking for a real alternative. the only alternative we have right now is in fact the green party. amy: green party vice presidential candidate ajamu baraka joining in democracy now! plus "expanding the debate" special as we bring you more highlight in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: "i if i was president" by wyclef jean. his home country, haiti, is being ravaged by hurricane matthew. the issue of climate change was not raised in one question during last night's sole vice presidential debate. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we returned to our expanding the debate special. on tuesday night, vice presidential candidates republican governor mike and and democratic senator tim kaine faced off at longwood university in farmville, virginia, for the first and only debate before next month's election. democracy now! aired a special "expanding the debate" broadcast tuesday where we gave major third-party candidates a chance to respond in real-time to the

same questions put to the major candidates. the green party's ajamu baraka joined us live from virginia. today we are airing highlights from thahat it winning the debae racial. this is moderator elaine quijano of cbs news. that he could have avoided paying federal income taxes for years. yesterday, mr. trump said he brilliantly used the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. does that seem fair to you? hillary clinton and senator kaine, and got bless you for it, career public servants, that is great, donald trump is a businessman. not a career politician. he built a business with this tax returns second out publicly this week showed he faced some pretty tough times 20 years ago. but like virtually every other business, including the new york times not too long ago, he used what's called net operating loss. we have a tax code, senator,

that actually is designed to encourage entrepreneurship in this country. mr. kaine: but why won't he release his tax returns? mr. pence: well, we're answering the question about -- about a business thing, is he -- mr. kaine: i do want to come back to that, but -- mr. pence: his tax returns -- his tax returns showed he went through a very difficult time, but he used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used. and he did it brilliantly. mr. kaine: how do you know that? you haven't seen his tax returns. mr. pence: he created a runway -- because he's created a business that's worth billions of dollars today. mr. kaine: how do you know that? mr. pence: and with regard to paying taxes, this whole riff about not paying taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years, d donald trump has created tens of thousands of jobs. and he's paid payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes -- mr. kaine: elaine, let me talk about something. >> senator, i'm going to give you about 30 seconds to respond, and i have question on social security for you. mr. pence: the only issue on taxes -- mr. kaine: donald trump started this campaign in 2014 and he said, "if f i run for presidenei will absolutely release my taxes." he's broken his first -- mr. pence: and he will. mr. kaine: he's broken his first promise. second, he stood on the stage --

mr. pence: he hasn't broken his promise. mr. kaine: he stood on the stage last week and when hillary said, you haven't been paying taxes, he said, "that makes me smart." so it's smart not to pay for our military? it's smart not to pay for veterans? it's smart not to pay for teachers? and i guess all of us who do pay for those things, i guess we're stupid. and the last thing i'll say is this -- mr. pence: senator, do you take all the deductions that you're entitled to? mr. kaine: the last thing -- the last thing i want to ask governor pence is -- mr. pence: i do. mr. kaine: governor pence had to give donald trump his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president. donald trump must give the american public his tax returns to show that he's qualified to be president. and he's breaking his promise. mr. pence: elaine, i have to respond to this. >> you get very little time, 20 seconds. mr. pence: i'll be -- i'll be very respectful. look, donald trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosure, which is what the law requires. mr. kaine: but he said he would release his tax returns. mr. pence: the american people can review that. and he's going -- senator, he's going to release his tax returns when the audit is over -- >> i need to ask you about social security -- mr. kaine:e: richard nixon released tax returns when he was under audit. mr. pence: they're going to raise your taxes. >> gentlemen --

the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other. i would please ask you to wait until it is that the other is finished. amy: debate moderator elaine quijano of cbs news. >> i would like to turn to our next segment. i would like to focus on social issues. you have both been open about the role that faith has played in your lives. can you discuss in detail a time when you struggled to balance your personal faith in the public policy division? -- position? senator kaine? mr. kaine: yeah, that's an easy one for me, elaine. it's an easy one. i'm really fortunate. i grew up in a wonderful household with great irish catholic parents. my mom and dad are sitting right here. i was educated by jesuits at rockhurst high school in kansas city. my 40th reunion is in 10 days. and i worked with jesuit missionaries in honduras, now nearly 35 years ago, and they were the heroes of my life. i try to practice my religion in a very devout way and follow the

teachings of my church in my own personal life. but i don't believe in this nation, a first amendment nation, where we don't raise any religion over the other, and we allow people to worship as they please, that the doctrines of any one religion should be mandated for everyone. for me, the hardest struggle in my faith life was the catholic church is against the death penalty and so am i. but i was governor of a state, and the state law said that there was a death penalty for crimes if the jury determined them to be heinous. and so i had to grapple with that. when i was running for governor, i was attacked pretty strongly because of my position on the death penalty. but i looked the voters of virginia in the eye and said, look, this is my religion. i'm not going to change my religious practice to get one vote, but i know how to take an oath and uphold the law. and if you elect me, i will uphold the law. and i was elected and i did. it was very, very difficult to allow executions to go forward, but in circumstances where i didn't feel like there was a

case for clemency, i told virginia voters i would uphold the law and i did. that was a real struggle. but i think it is really, really important that those of us who have deep faith lives don't feel like we could just substitute our own views for everybody else in society, regardless of their views. >> governor pence? mr. pence: well, it's a wonderful question. and my christian faith is at the very heart of who i am. i was also raised in a wonderful family of faith. it was a church on sunday morning and grace before dinner. but my christian faith became real for me when i made a personal decision for christ when i was a freshman in college. and i've tried to live that out however imperfectly every day of my life since. and with my wife at my side, we've followed a calling into public service, where we've -- we've tried to -- we've tried to keep faith with the values that we cherish.

and with regard to when i struggle, i appreciate, and -- and i have a great deal of respect for senator kaine's sincere faith. i truly do. mr. kaine: that's shared. mr. pence: but for me, i would tell you that for me the sanctity of life proceeds out of the belief that -- that ancient principle that -- where god says before you were formed in the womb, i knew you, and so for my first time in public life, i sought to stand with great compassion for the sanctity of life. the state of indiana has also sought to make sure that we expand alternatives in health care counseling for women, non-abortion alternatives. i'm also very pleased at the fact we're well on our way in indiana to becoming the most pro-adoption state in america. i think if you're going to be pro-life, you should -- you should be pro- adoption. but what i can't understand is with hillary clinton and now

senator kaine at her side is to support a practice like partial-birth abortion. i mean, to hold to the view -- and i know senator kaine, you hold pro-life views personally -- but the very idea that a child that is almost born into the world could still have their life taken from them is just anathema to me. and i cannot -- i can't conscience about -- about a party that supports that. or that -- i know you've historically opposed taxpayer funding of abortion. but hillary clinton wants to -- wants to repeal the longstanding provision in the law where we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion. so for me, my faith informs my life. i try and spend a little time on my knees every day. but it all for me begins with cherishing the dignity, the worth, the value of every human life. mr. kaine: elaine, this is a fundamental question, a fundamental question. hillary and i are both people out of religious backgrounds,

from methodist church experience, which was really formative for her as a public servant. but we really feel like you should live fully and with enthusiasm the commands of your faith. but it is not the role of the public servant to mandate that for everybody else. so let's talk about abortion and choice. let's talk about them. we support roe v. wade. we support the constitutional right of american women to consult their own conscience, their own supportive partner, their own minister, but then make their own decision about pregnancy. that's something we trust american women to do that. and we don't think that women should be punished, as donald trump said they should, for making the decision to have an abortion. governor pence wants to repeal roe v. wade. he said he wants to put it on the ash heap of history. and we have some young people in the audience who weren't even born when roe was decided. this is pretty important.

before roe v. wade, states could pass criminal laws to do just that, to punish women if they made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. i think you should live your moral values. but the last thing, the very last thing that government should do is have laws that would punish women who make reproductive choices. and that is the fundamental difference between a clinton-kaine ticket and a trump-pence ticket that wants to punish women who make that choice. mr. pence: no, it's really not. donald trump and i would never support legislation that punished women who made the heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy. mr. kaine: then why did donald trump say that? mr. pence: we just never would. mr. kaine: why did he say that? mr. pence: well, look, it's -- look, he's not a polished politician like you and hillary clinton. and so -- mr. kaine: well, i would admit that's not a polished -- mr. pence: you know, things don't always come out exactly the way he means them. mr. kaine: great line from the -- great line from the gospel of matthew. from the fullness of the heart, the mouth speaks. mr. pence: yeah. mr. kaine: when donald trump says women should be punished or

mexicans are rapists and criminals -- mr. pence: i'm telling you -- mr. kaine: or john mccain is not a hero, he is showing you who he is. mr. pence: senator, you've whipped out that mexican thing again. he -- look -- mr. kaine: can you defend it? mr. pence: there are criminal aliens in this country, tim, who have come into this country illegally who are perpetrating violence and taking american lives. mr. kaine: you want to -- you want to use a big broad brush against mexicans on that? mr. pence: he also said and many of them are good people. you keep leaving that out of your quote. and if you want me to go there, i'll go there. but here's -- there is a choice, and it is a choice on life. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with donald trump, who's standing for the right to life. it's a principle that -- senator kaine -- and i'm very gentle about this, because i really do respect you -- it's a principle that you embrace. and i have appreciated the fact that you've supported the hyde amendment, which bans the use of taxpayer funding for abortion, in the past, but that's not hillary clinton's view. people need to understand, we

can come together as a nation. we can create a culture of life. more and more young people today are embracing life because we know we are -- we're better for it. we can -- like mother teresa said at that famous national prayer breakfast -- mr. kaine: this is important -- mr. pence: bring the -- let's welcome the children into our world. there are so many families around the country who can't have children. we could improve adoption -- mr. kaine: but, governor -- mr. pence: so that families that can't have children can adopt more readily those children from crisis pregnancies. mr. kaine: governor, why don't you trust women to make this choice for themselves? we can encourage people to support life. of course we can. but why don't you trust women? why doesn't donald trump trust women to make this choice for themselves? that's what we ought to be doing in public life. living our lives of faith or motivation with enthusiasm and excitement, convincing other, dialoguing with each other about important moral issues of the day -- mr. pence: because there are -- mr. kaine: but on fundamental issues of morality, we should let women make their own

decisions. mr. pence: because there is -- a society can be judged by how it deals with its most vulnerable, the aged, the infirm, the disabled, and the unborn. i believe it with all my heart. and i couldn't be more proud to be standing with a pro-life candidate in donald trump. amamy: mike pence and d tim kai. ajamu baraka, green party nominee for vice president. mr. baraka: well, i have to say that while i am not a person of faith necessarily in terms of the organized religious view, i do operate from an ethical framework informed by my lived experience is, but informed by my understanding of the kinds of values that we must have in order to be fully formed human beings and to live in harmony with each other and with nature. and so i believe in the value of cooperation. i believe in the possibility of

peace. i believe the human beings can be more than what they are today. but i also believe very passionately that we cannot have a situation in this country where women are criminalized for exercising their self-determination over their bodies. that women have a fundamental right to economy to self-determination over themselves, their sex lives, and every thing else. and it is sort of absurd for me to see these two white males engage in this kind of conversation. just certain extent, i guess we have to agree with more with what tim kaine then the right wing patriarchy of mike pence. i believe he represents a position that is quite troubling. one that we have to reject as a society evolving in a direction in which we are going to represent and support and

recognize the goal rights of equalne in the society -- rights of everyone in society. it is surreal to me that both talk about the sanctity of life. just 20 minutes from talking about militarism and going to war. i guess that is one reason why some of us wind ourselves unable to completely understand the morality of some of these individuals who call themselves people of faith. it is a clear contradiction to me. tim kaine, who says he believes in life, felt he was compelled to sign off on those dissonances -- death sentences in virginia. that is not true. yet the ability to commute those death penalty cases to life from prison. he made a political choice. as a consequence, someone's life was taken. these kinds of ethical

contradictions are the kinds of contradictions that we find reflected also in the contradictory policies of both of these candidates. amy: i want to go back to green , his responseraka to the question about the new york times releasing part of donald trump's 1995 tax returns that showed he could have avoided hang taxes for 18 years. mr. baraka: on the issue of taxes, i'm more concerned about the fact we have a number of corporationsns, multinational corporations based in the u.s., that historically do not pay any taxes. we have an issue with rich individuals were able to avoid taxes, but we also have these multinational corporations based in the u.s. that are avoiding $717 to the tune of billion. there is a different code for the rich and one for the rest of us. what we have to do is eliminate that contradiction. so the real issue -- not just

the fact that donald trump took advantage of the tax laws, the real issue is that those tax laws exist. we're going to have a fair economy, fairness in this economy, then we have to eliminate those kinds of loopholes. we are prepared to infect do that. it is a shame that we have operations that make billions of dollars but are able to avoid paying any tax here in this country. amy: green party's ajamu baraka joining in democracy now!'s expanding the debate special with the major candidates that took place in virginia last time. we will continue our expanding the debate special in a moment. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!,

democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we returned to our expanding the debate special. on tuesday night, the vice presidential candidate mike atce and him kaine faced off longwood university in farmville, virginia, in the first to know a debate before next month's election. on tuesday night, democracy now! a major party -- third party candidates responded that the questions in real-l-time live as the major candidates. the e green party's ajamu baraka joined us. we are airing highlights from the special. we go back to moderator elaine quijano of cbs news. >> please, i want to turn now to syria. 250,000 people, 100,000 of them children, are under siege in aleppo, syria. bunker buster bombs, cluster munitions, and incendiary weapons are being dropped on them by russian and syrian military. does the u.s. have a responsibility to protect

civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale, governor pence? mr. pence: the united states of america needs to begin to exercise strong leadership to protect the vulnerable citizens and over 100,000 children in aleppo. hillary clinton's top priority when she became secretary of state was the russian reset, the russians reset. after the russian reset, the russians invaded ukraine and took over crimea. and the small and bullying leader of russia is now dictating terms to the united states to the point where all the united states of america -- the greatest nation on earth -- just withdraws from talks about a cease-fire while vladimir putin puts a missile defense system in syria while he marshals the forces and begins -- look, we e have gotot to bego lean into this with strong, broad-shouldered american leadership. it begins by rebuilding our military.

and the russians and the chinese have been making enormous investments in the military. we have the smallest navy since 1916. we have the lowest number of troops since the end of the second world war. we've got to work with congress, and donald trump will, to rebuild our military and project american strength in the world. but about aleppo and about syria, i truly do believe that what america ought to do right now is immediately establish safe zones, so that families and vulnerable families with children can move out of those areas, work with our arab partners, real time, right now, to make that happen. and secondly, i just have to tell you that the provocations by russia need to be met with american strength. and if russia chooses to be involved and continue, i should say, to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in aleppo, the united states of america should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the assad regime to prevent them from this

humanitarian crisis that is taking place in aleppo. there's a broad range of other things that we ought to do, as well. we ought to deploy a missile defense shield to the czech republic and poland which hillary clinton and barack obama pulled back on out of not wanting to offend the russians back in 2009. >> governor, your two minutes are up. mr. pence: we've just got to have american strength on the world stage. when donald trump becomes president of the united states, the russians and other countries in the world will know they're dealing with a strong american president. >> senator kaine? mr. kaine: hillary and i also agree that the establishment of humanitarian zones in northern syria with the provision of international human aid, consistent with the u.n. security council resolution that was passed in february 2014, would be a very, very good idea. and hillary also has the ability to stand up to russia in a way that this ticket does not. donald trump, again and again, has praised vladimir putin. and it's clear that he has business dealings with russian oligarchs who are very connected to putin. the trump campaign management team had to be fired a month or

so ago because of those shadowy connections with pro-putin forces. governor pence made the odd claim, he said inarguably vladimir putin is a better leader than president obama. vladimir putin has run his economy into the ground. he persecutes lgbt folks and journalists. if you don't know the difference between dictatorship and leadership, then you got to go back to a fifth-grade civics class. i'll tell you what offends me -- mr. pence: well, that offended me. mr. kaine: governor pence just said -- governor pence just said that donald trump will rebuild the military. no, he won't. donald trump is avoiding paying taxes. the new york times story -- and we need to get this -- but the new york times suggested that he probably didn't pay taxes for about 18 years starting in 1995. those years included the years of 9/11. so get this. on 9/11, hillary clinton and donald trump's hometown was attacked by the worst terrorist attack in the history of the

united states. young men and women -- young men and women signed up to serve in the military to fight terrorism. hillary clinton went to washington to get funds to rebuild her city and protect first responders, but donald trump was fighting a very different fight. it was a fight to avoid paying taxes so that he wouldn't support the fight against terror. >> the question was about aleppo, senator. mr. kaine: he wouldn't support troops. he wouldn't -- he wouldn't support -- this is important, elaine. when a guy running for president will not support the troops, not support veterans, not support teachers, that's really important. >> right. mr. kaine: and i said about aleppo, we do agree the notion is we have to create a humanitarian zone in northern syria. it's very important. amy: ajamu baraka, your response? mr. baraka: this is a very dangerous conversation. what we're seeing from both candidates, both parties, is a commitment to go to war.

you know, it is very disheartening to see the kind of images coming from the conflict in syria. but that conflict had a genesis. it did not just emerge out of thin air. and not to get into the details of how this conflict involved, i think it is important, though, to say the u.s. -- their hands are not clean. that this notion that the u.s. was standing on the side and not involved, that narrative is a false narrative. this idea that the collapse of the last cease-fire can be put at the foot of the russians is in fact an outright lie. that may be painful for folks who are following the situation very closely, but it is a fact. basically, the pentagon under minded the agreement, the cease-fire agreement that was negotiated by john kerry, when they attacked the syrian army

and killed 62 of their soldiers. when they attacked a known sitee of that was the effective collapse of that cease-fire. ingoing into syria establishing a humanitarian zone, we're talking about an act of war. where is the legitimacy for that? the u.s. has no legitimacy to be operating in that territory. and this plan aboutut the democt and republican side to take the u.s. back into a war -- because when you're talking about intervention, you're talking about boots on the ground. another war? the american people are tired of this. and i don't think they're going to go for the justification for intervention again and to this conflict. what we would do with the stein-baraka the administration is use the power of the state to engage in a real peace process,

to use the power of this state to have real national reconciliation i in syria, you de-escalate the conflict in syria and across the middle east. so we're not going to stand by and allow for this kind of war propaganda to be whipped up by both of these candididates and y the corporate media. as part of ourraka expanding the debate special and we gave him a chance to respond to the same questions as to to tim kaine and mike pence in real time. after the debate, i spoke to prize-winning investigative journalist allan nairn for his response. >> on the one hand, the debate did not really convey the gravity of the threat of trump. the fact that in all that open white supremacist has a chance to take over the u.s. executive branch and free up the paul ryan agenda in congress entry right

agenda from the supreme court. that did not fully come through. however, i think the were very important factual points that came out of it. one was that i think pence succeeded in exploding the idea that some people have that a trump presidency was somehow be leslie l than a democratic -- less lethal than a democratic presidency. to begin with, the democrats and republicans are lawless. there are willing to violate the domestic murder laws of every country in the world, owing to violate international law, willing to violate aggression to commit aggression. they are willing to continue the u.s. policy of trying to run the world. it is the case that whoever gets elected, u.s. behavior overseas is likely to be worse than it is now and clinton is somewhat more aggressive than obama has been. but there has been this notion that trump would somehow pull

back from that. trump-pence, absolutely not. trump has innocents promised a new war with iran. sinkhe says he will iranian ships if they taunted american sailors. now in this debate, pence essentially promised a military confrontation with russia. trump has gotten some credit bad -- talking about how nato is, which is justified, and by implying he would somehow be less aggressive in the middle east. well, pence exploded both of those. pence says he was to put missile defense systems in poland and the czech republic, which is the number-one priority of russia to stop -- which russia has of repeatedly, if you do that, at least a military confrontation with us. secondly, pence openly called for a u.s. attack on the syrian army -- which would be an even hotter military confrontation

with russia. the added dimension was they did not talk about tonight, but which becomes even more menacing when you put it in this context, of the trump policy of return to the old u.s. policy of conquest for resources. like with u.s. did with iran in 1953 with the coup to secure the oil for the western interest, what they do with water mullah in 1954 -- guatemala in 1954 to put the military in power and begin a massive slaughter there. trump says, go in and take the oil. manyhas implications for countries, specially for venezuela. the next president is going to confrontations with north korea over nuclear weapons and with venezuela where the government is on the verge of collapse. venezuela as the world's number one oil reserves -- even greater than those of iran, iraq, libya,

and saudi arabia. p-pence, it is more ominous than would be under a clinton administration. on other issues, i think there were significant statements. from findered kaine was an element of racism in the massive police killings of african-americans, essentially saying it is outrageous, have you say there is any racism involved. if you follow the logic of f th, that means in a situation where you have massively disproportionate police shootings of african-americans and you then say, as pence was saying, there is no racism involved, that means you're saying is african-americans essentially deserved it since a many more african-americans are shot in that manner than whites. and social security, i think remarks of both were very significant. kaine merely said, we have to protect social security. pence merely said we have to meet the obligations. now, those are both code phrases

which have been used by those who are trying to cut social security in the name of cutting the deficit. kaine correctly pointed out that pence has been a leader in the paul ryan movement to completely destroy social security, to privatize it, and nothing pence said backed away from that. kaine did not commit to preserving social security as it is and not cutting benefitits -- which clinton is a ready donone. soso he took a step back on thte issue. amy: investigative journalist allan nairn during our expanding the debate special. we also spoke to columbia university law professor catherine franke. she spoke about governor mike pence and his record on reproductive rights and planned parenthood. >> as governor, he cut all of the funding to planned parenthood in the state of indiana and it resulted in the closing of all of their clinics. what resulted from that? wednesday's clinic stood reproductive rights and family

planning work certainly, but they also did hiv testing and counseling. as a result of the closing of the planned parenthood clinics, the hiv rate -- infection rate skyrocketed in indiana. the antiabortion crusade has a ripple effect much farther out beyond just the issue of abortion itself. nermeen: can you say a little bit about tim kaine and in particular his catholicism in the context of the positions he has taken vote on abortion and the death penalty? >> both of these vice presidential candidate professed sincerely to be devout christians. mike pence, evangelical protestant. tim kaine, catholic. amy: mike pence said i'm a christian, conservative, and republican. >> i think we're seeing in these two candidates, two faces of christianity in this country. one with mike pence were

christianity is being weaponize as a way to justify a range of discriminations, small minded, mean, xena phobic thinking. in in the case of tim kaine, a different kind of christianity. what i would call a more way,olic way -- catholic brotherly love, if you will, christianity of compassion, of care, responsibility to those who are the weakest. you may remember when he was also the law school, he went to funders to do volunteer work. if my students that they wanted to do that, i would welcome it whether they were catholic or not. i think tim kaine's catholicism is a sense of responsibility and public service. what i see in mike pence is a way in which religion passes as a justification for thinking the world an old-fashioned perhaps ways that never existed before,

but in narrowminded ways that -- it is realways contrast between the two. kaine does say in his own personal faith he is opposed to abortion and he is also opposed to the death penalty. but he also says as a public official, an elected official, his obligation is to abide by the law and constitution. i do not see that from mike hans. amy: that is columbia university law for hazard catherine franke. to watch our full expanding the debate special from tuesday night, visit democracynow.org. it was 3.5 hours. we aired the full debate and again gave the green party, vice presidential nominee, ajamu baraka, a chance to respond to every question in real time. we had also invited william weld of the libertarian party. he did not take us up on the invitation. in that special, we also spoke to intercept journalist lee fang , theorney chase strangio

civil and human rights lawyer and a retired colonel and vietnam war veteran. tune in sunday for democracy now!'s expanding the debate coverage of the next donald trump-hillary clinton debate, the second of three presidential debates. that does it for our show today. our website is democracynow.org. you can follow us on facebook as , andas instagram, twitter all different forms of social media. and tell your friends about democracy now! people powered media. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]