01/05/17 01/05/17 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> we have said repeatedly over the pa two months that the outsource is not the russian government and it is not the states party. amy: wikileaks founder julian assange says russia was not the source of the leak of females from the democratic national committee. the senate holds a hearing today on russian cyber attacks. this comes as president elect trump has back join assange --

julian assange and called the media coverage of the hacking "more dishonest than anyone knows." fresh off his arrest for a sit in at the office of senator jeff sessions, we will speak with naacp president cornell william brooks, whose called on sessions to withdraw from consideration for attorney general because of .is positions lawe thoughtfully wrote the -- broke the law so we might have someone who will enforce all of the laws as our chief law enforcement officer of the united states. amy: and we will speak with naacp chief brooks about the sentencing of dylan roof, who said in court wednesday "i am not sorry. i have not shed a tear for the innocent people i killed." all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and

peace report. i'm amy goodman. republicans in the newly sworn in 115th congress moved swiftly on wednesday to repeal the affordable care act, president obama's signature heath care law. by a vote of 51 to 48, the senate approved a procedural measure clearing a way for a budget resolution that could repeal major sections of the law. the charge was led by vice president-elect mike pence, who admitted republicans have not yet decided how to replace the affordable care act. gov. pence: the architecture of the replacement of pres. obama care will come in the weeks and months ahead. the american people voted for change in november and the present-elect and i working with the leaders of the house and senate are determined to keep our promise to the american people, and it all begins with repealing and replacing the

failed policy of obamacare. amy: president obama made a rare trip to capitol hill yesterday where told minority democrats , not to help republicans pass replacement measures he called, "trumpcare." at the white house, press secretary josh earnest said the republican plan would have devastating consequences. >> 20 2 million people will lose our health insurance of the affordable care act is repealed. it will rip a hole in the deficit, the federal budget, the deficit will go up if the affordable care act is repealed. that is not just my conclusion. you can ask the cbo about that. amy: senate republicans are seeking to end billions of dollars in federal subsidies to states that have expanded medicaid, as well as subsidies for private health coverage through health insurance exchanges. some provisions, like a ban on denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, would likely be unaffected by a repeal. on the senate floor, vermont independent senator bernie sanders displayed a giant

printout of a donald trump tweet calling on the , president-elect to make good on a campaign promise not to cut social security or health care entitlements. trump's tweet from may of 2015 read -- "i was the first & only potential gop candidate to state there will be no cuts to social security, medicare & medicaid." this is senator sanders. sen. sanders: if he was sincere, then i would hope that tomorrow or maybe today he could send out a tweet and tell his republican colleagues to stop wasting their time and all of our time. and for mr. trump to tell the american people that he will veto any proposal that cuts medicaid,that cuts and that cuts social security. amy: donald trump's team is planning an overhaul of the cia and the office of the director of national intelligence, or -- according to t "wall street

journal," which reported wednesday the changes are aimed at limiting the power of the spy agencies. the plan includes cuts to cia staffing at its virginia headquarters, while moving more employees to field operations. the move comes after trump repeatedly mocked the cia over its assessment that russian hackers infiltrated the democratic national committee and leaked the emails of john podesta, hillary clinton's campaign advisor in a bid to , help trump win the presidency. on wednesday, donald trump cited an interview with julian assange, conducted by sean hannity of fox news, in which assange said that russia was not the source for the mass leak of emails. >> we have said reatedly over the last two months that our source is not the russian government andt is not the state party. amy: responding to that comment, president elect wrote on twitter -- "julian assange said 'a 14 year old could have hacked podesta' -- why was dnc so careless? also said russians did not give him the info!"

in 2010, trump had a different view of julian assange, calling -- him to face the battle death penalty. buzzfeed report so far no u.s. government entity has run an independent forensic analysis on the dnc's computer system. donald trump has been wall attorney walter clayton to head the securities and exchange commission. as a partner at the law firm sullivan & cromwell, clayton gave legal advice to investment banks including goldman sachs, barclays and bear stearns, whose collapse helped usher in the financial crisis of 2008. in 2011, clayton co-authored a report blasting the obama administration's sec over its enforcement of the foreign corrupt practices act, which bars corporate bribery. democratic representative maxine waters, the ranking member of the house financial services committee, said in a statement -- "jay clayton is just the latest

addition to the growing pool of wall street insiders that make up the trump administration. as head of the sec, clayton will have the power to carry his pro-wall street agenda to the agency that is entrusted with regulating wall street." in chicago, donald trump's incoming press secretary drew protests wednesday over his appearance at a panel discussion on the university of chicago campus. sean spicer was preparing to join former obama adviser david axelrod in a conversation at the university's institute of politics when a protester stood up and accused spicer of accommodating. >> fascism without a respect, there is an opportunity for you to post questions later on. >> [inaudible] amy: spicer's appearance at the university of chicago came despite widespread protest on campus. last august, the university's dean of stents, jay ellison, warned undergraduates -- "we do not support so-called trigger warnings, we do not

cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial, and we do not condone the creation of intellectual 'safe spaces' where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own." in charleston, south carolina, convicd murderer dylann roof offered no apology and no explanation for his massacre at the emanuel amc church in june of 2015, telling jurors he was psychologically fit to stand trial. the, to came as roof acted as his own attorney in a brief opening statement in the sentencing phase of his trial. roof faces a possible death sentence after he was convicted in december of murdering nine black worshipers, including pastor clementa pinckney. in their opening statement, prosecutors quoted excerpts of a racist manifesto written by roof while he was held in a charleston jail. roof wrote -- "i would like to make it crystal clear i do not regret what i did. i am not sorry. i have not shed a tear for the innocent people i killed."

in chicago, four people were arrested wednesday after a distbing videoosted to facebookhows them rturing a bound and gagged man while shouting, "[bleep] dond trump!" the video shows two men and two women -- all of them african american -- cutting the mawith a knife, burning him with cigarees and threatening him , with murder. the victim was intified asn 18-year-old white man with mental health alleng. the perprators are ao teenagers. e video awned a balash on social med, with manwhite supracist groups blaming the blk lives maer movemenfor the assault. the hatag "#mkidnappg" began ending on twitr by wednday nigh in rolville, nor carola, a police offer has bn placed admintrative ave, aft a viral vio showedim picking up high scol stude and slming h into a corete floo 15-year-oljasmine rwin, wh is african-american, said she

was trying to break up a fight between her sister and another student when the officer grabbed her, lifted her high into the air, and slammed her on her side into concrete. darwin's mother said the incident left her daughter with a concussion. the video prompted widespread calls on social media for the officer, ruben de los santos, to be fired. in iraq, the united nations is warning that over 13,000 civilians have fled mosul over the last five days after a u.s.-led coalition ramped up its campaign to retake the city from isis. the commander of the assault, u.s. lieutenant general steve townsend, said he believes his forces might kill or capture isis leaders, but he's unsure whether that includes the group's leader abu bakr al-baghdadi. >> i am sure there are some mosul ill.s in we would have leaders here controlling this very important battle for them. they do, too. nofar as baghdadi is, i have

idea. if you get a hint on where baghdadi, please let me know so i can kill him. amy: a military spokesperson said wednesday the number of u.s. troops taking part in fighting around mosul had doubled in recent weeks to 450. the u.s. currently has more than 5000 troops in iraq. three republican senators have introduced a bill that would move the u.s. embassy in israel from tel aviv to jerusalem -- an act that palestinians say would further doom any chance of a negotiated peace. the bill, introduced by ted cruz, dean heller and marco rubio, would also recognize jerusalem as israel's capital city. past presidents have resisted congressional demands to move the embassy to jerusalem, the final status of which is under negotiation in talks between israelis and the palestinians. but donald trump has said repeatedly he supports the move. in egypt, a leader of the 2011 uprising that toppled u.s. backed dictator hosni mubarak has been freed from prison after serving a three-year sentence for unauthorized protest. ahmed maher is a founder of the

april 6 youth movement, which played a key role in the ouster of mubarak during the 2011 uprising. supporters of leonard peltier got a major boost this week in their campaign to win clemency for the 71-year-old native american activist. u.s. attorney james reynolds, whose office prosecuted peltier, added his voice to those calling on president obama for a compassionate release. speaking to the guardian, reynolds said -- "there seems to be no point in taxpayers paying his room and board. it's time to call it quits." peltier is a former member of the american indian movement who was convicted of killing two fbi agents during a shootout on south dakota's pine ridge indian reservation in 1975. leonard peltier has long maintained his innocence. in france, a trial is underway for a french farmer who faces up to five years in prison for helping migrants cross the border from italy. cedric herrou also faces a 30,000-euro fine if he's found guilty of aiding illegal arrivals. about 300 demonstrators rallied outside a courthouse in nice wednesday as the trial got

underway. herrou says he led a team of volunteers who provided food and shelter to the migrants, and accepted no money in return. to respect the law like i do. i broke the law because these people are pushing me toward illegality in order to protect the rights of these children and these families that i have taken across the border. i had to break the law. if i have to continue, i will continue. amy: last month, herrou was elected "person of the year" by nice's main newspaper. he's the latest to face charges for assisting migrants. later this week, a court will decide the fate of a man who faces a six-month suspended sentence for giving a ride to three eritrean women who crossed the border from italy. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. we begin today's show with the growing resistance to many of president-elect trump's cabinet

picks who face senate confirmation hearings in the coming weeks. on tuesday, naacp president cornell william brooks and five other civil rights leaders were arrested during a sit-in at the office of alabama senator jeff sessions, demanding he withdraw his name for consideration for attorney general. afterwards, brooks addressed supporters outside of a police station in mobile, alabama. >> what we've done, engaging in civil disobedience in opposition to senator sessions becoming attorney general of the united states. experience,te an but we thought fully broke the law so that we might have someone who will enforce all of the laws as our chief law enforcement officer of the united states. nermeen: trump's pick of sessions has drawn widespread outrage because of sessions' opposition to the voting rights act, support for anti-immigration legislation and

history of making racist comments, which included reportedly saying he thought the ku klux klan was "ok until i found out they smoked pot." he has also called the american civil liberties union and the naacp un-american and communist-inspired. in 1986, sessions was denied confirmation for a federal judgeship by a republican-controlled senate committee over his racist comments. amy: this week's sit-in came as more than 1000 law school professors sent a letter to congress urging lawmakers to reject sessions' confirmation, writing -- "nothing in senator sessions' public life since 1986 has convinced us that he is a different man than the 39-year-old attorney who was deemed too racially insensitive to be a federal district court judge." sessions' confirmation hearing is scheduled for january 10 and 11. for more, we go to washington, d.c., where we're joined by cornell william brooks,

president and ceo of the naacp. also longtime human rights advocate, civil rights lawyer, and minister. welcome to democracy now! before we go to talk about another story, which is what is happening in the sentencing of dylan roof, let's talk about your physician on bill sessions, on william sessions on jeff sessions, sorry. the senator of alabama who has been chosen by president-elect trump to be the next attorney general -- although, he does have to go through a confirmation. what are your major objections? >> our objections are fundamentally, senator sessions represents a dim dystopian view of american civil liberties and civil rights. our objections are at least threefold. the first of which is that he has demonstrated an unwillingness to acknowledge the

reality of voter suppression that we a scene from one end of the country to the other. in the fourth circuit, decision of found voter suppression in north carolina. the fifth circuit decision, which found voter suppression in texas. he has not a knowledge reality of that and not voter person -- voter suppression in his own state. instead, photo id laws, premise on broder fraud. stoodly has he not against voter suppression in his own state, not a knowledge voter suppression recognized by federal courts, the one instance where he has appeared in court in terms of voting rights, it prosecute three civil rights activists, which it took a jury less than three , and ao find innocent congress in which he served later provided them were honored them with congressional gold medals for their activism. one of those activists marched the side dr. king.

in terms of voting rights, we take strong exception and we oppose him in terms of that. in terms of immigration rights, he is one among one of the most conservative, ultraconservative extremists senators in terms of his opposition to conference of immigration reform. in addition to that, he has voiced and openness to and immigration ban on a global religion, namely islam, which cannot be squared in any way shape, fashion, or form with the u.s. constitution. number three, his views on criminal justice reform stand in stark contrast to both red state blue state governors. in other words, he stands for law and order index only in and -- nixonian and akoni in terms. 65 million americans with records. one million fathers behind bars. we are folks on both the left and right, republicans and

democrats on both sides of the aisle looking to dismantle this prison industrial complex and bring this era of mass end.ceration to an . he was to overpopulate or continue to overpopulate the prisons and jails. for these reasons, coupled with prosecutor, his record as attorney general, his record as a united rate senator, which the test to statements he demonstrating80's incredible racial instances. the point being, the remarks we found racially offensive in the 1990's -- i should say, in the 1980's, have been demonstrated, attested to, verified by the record which extends from that point until now. we stand in strong opposition and we stand in opposition with over 1000 law professors, with governor patrick, with organizations not only on the

progressive left, but i might also note any number of conservatives who take strong exception to the fact that senator sessions stands against whistleblowers. he stands against civil liberties. so folks on the left and right, conservatives and progressives, know that jeff sessions represent a great dangerous turn for this country. we need to be clear, amy. we need to be very clear. we as a country face a stark choice, not between liberalism and conservatism, but between democracy and authoritarianism. and in attorney general jeff sessions under president john -- president donald trump would take us backward it had long and full speed fashion. recently cannot do that. unapologetically opposed to senator sessions.

the board of directors of the naacp voted to oppose this nomination. we're doing so not only as policy, but bodily, spiritually, morally i encouraging civil disobedience -- that is to say standing in the tradition of martin luther king, rosa parks, standing in the tradition by sitting down. we understand the odds may be difficult, but we at the naacp do not gauge our principled opposition to a nominee based upon odds and probabilities, but rather the rightness of the cause. nermeen: on the first point you mentioned, your concern about jeff sessions as attorney general, voter suppression and id laws, voter id laws, a recent poll jointly conducted by the 62% of trumpealed supporters believe "millions of

illegal votes were cast in this election." so could you respond to that and what that may have to do with asmp's selection of sessions or nomination of sessions as attorney general? >> absolutely. while we may have any number of our fellow citizens who believe in the myth of voter fraud, here is the reality. there are studies that attest to the fact that out of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of ballots cast, we have a liberal handful of fraudulent ballots. literal handful. statistically, empirically, as a matter of probability speaking, you are more likely to meet the tooth fairy standing next to santa claus at the ballot box then in counter in actual instance of voter fraud. what you're most likely to encounter is not voter fraud on the part of voters attending to

be something that they are not, but rather politicians engaging in fraudulent behavior with respect to suppressing the vote. that is a reality. it is a reality attested to the federal courts around the country. the naacp in the span of less than a year, that is to say in 10 months, we had 10 victories against voter suppression. we had court cases in north carolina led in a marvelous way by dr. barber, and in texas led by a brilliant lawyer gary bledsoe. two court the trees a testing -- victories attesting to put her suppression. when texas, a court found that voters plus ballots -- a votes were imperiled as consequence of voter

suppression, not voter fraud. the same is true in north carolina in terms of 5% of the electorate. in the home state senator jefferson sessions, in the alabama, a half-million votes were imperiled as a consequence of a constitutionally wrongheaded, morally wrong hearted, voter id law. to our fellow citizens who believe in voter fraud, it quite simply is not true except when it comes to your politicians who are engaging in voter suppression and discriminatory behavior and activity. amy: in 1980 six, president reagan nominated jeff sessions for federal judgeship that he was denied confirmation because of his history of racist comments included reportedly saying he thought the ku klux klan members were ok until he found out they smoked pot. this is the late senator ted kennedy speaking at sessions' 1986 confirmation hearing. >> is a throwback to a shameful era, which i know both black and

white americans thought was in our past. it is inconceivable to me a person of this attitude is qualified to be a u.s. attorney, let alone the united states federal judge. beauregard sessions the third, brought face-to-face with things he personally had said, for example, that the naacp in the civil liberties union are un-american organizations. >> these comments that you could , he organizations, i may have said something like that in a general way and probably was wrong. any code that was jeff sessions in 1986. he was rejected for the judgeship, only once before in close to half a century, had the senate judiciary committee formally turned down a presidential nominee for the federal bench. forward to 2016. cornell william brooks, another explanation of perhaps one of the reasons for the choice for

senator sessions to be attorney who donald trump has cap to be a senior policy advisor, stephen miller, the former chief of staff of jeff is not so much known outside of washington, but warmed up this beaches of trump -- the speeches of trump over the country, sort of the opening act. he was one of the ones credited with torpedoing them aggression reform -- immigration reform, something senator sessions has really made a name in right now is going after immigrants. >> yes. viewpresents a very dim when it comes to immigration rights. one of the things i want to note is we're at a point in america's history where the electorate and the citizenry is more diverse than it has ever been. so to put forward in attorney

general nominee who stands in stark contrast to the reality of american democracy in 2017, that is to say diverse and growing increasingly so, is a throwback. it is a matter of stepping into a backward and ugly past. where we've seen in the course of the last election some of this rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, which seems to have fueled much of the trouble campaign. where we have seen in the latest fbi report 67% increase in anti-muslim hate crimes, where we have seen all around the country immigrant groups and committees of color marginalized and dehumanized, to put forth this kind of a nominee at this hour of our american democracy is quite frankly disturbing. and it stands in contrast to

where most people in this country want to go. and were most legislators, i believe, want to go, which is to say to respond to the need for immigration reform in a comprehensive, thoughtful way. so that senator sessions really represents a backward turn and one that we oppose and that we stand beside many immigrant rights in doing so. about the were to ask sentencing hearing underway in charleston, south carolina, for dylan roof, who faces a possible death sentence after he was convicted in december of murdering nine black worshipers, at the emanuel amc church, in june 2015. this week as roof acted as his own attorney and a brief opening statement during the sentencing phase of his trial, he offered no apology and no explanation for his massacre, telling jurors he was psychologically fit to stand trial. in a prosecutor's opening statement, they quoted excerpts of a racist manifesto written by roof while he was held in a

charleston jail. roof wrote -- "i would like to make it crystal clear i do not regret what i did. i am not sorry. i have not shed a tear for the innocent people i killed." cornell william brooks, you are president and ceo of the naacp and also a civil rights lawyer, and a minister. your response? >> i would also like to note i am also a minister in the episcopalthodist church. i grew up and around charleston. i'm very familiar with mother emanuel church. it is quite simply heartbreaking to hear the killer, the murderer a one person a referred to as racial terrorist, referred to the taking of lives in such a cavalier, callous, and inhumane fashion and showed absolutely no remorse.

the naacp stands unapologetically against the death penalty. we do so as a matter of principle. that being said, we support the prosecution and the punishment to the fullest and firmest extent of the law for someone who has engaged in what we call hate crime from the very beginning. i recall standing on the sidewalk outside of emanuel ame nineh shortly after students of scripture were slain in that church beside -- including the pastor. i recall referring to the crime, but also talking about the fact that while there's a climate of killing in the country, there's also an environment of hate. we're concerned about dylan roof and him being punished. we're also concerned about the racial animus, the sanitized, lt-right atmosphere that is giving rise to this kind of sentiment and driving violent

crimes. we have seen this around the country. we have seen it in the fbi hate crimes statistics. we have seen it in the numbers reported out by the anti-defamation league. so as chilling and concerning and as alarming as the sentencing phase of the trial of dylan roof is, we should be shilled and concerned and alarmed about the state of america. because dylann roof may seem like an abortive aberration, but we're concerned that kind of behavior can be normalized animus in the racial the country, the xenophobic attitude the country, the homophobic attitude in the country. the point being, we cannot separate the tone and tenor of the last campaign from what is going on in charleston even as we speak. the naacp standing and from opposition to both the atmosphere that gave rise to dylan roof's crimes, even as we

call for his prosecution and punishment. notake no mistake, this is about the trial of one individual. it is about the state of america more broadly. amy: cornell william brooks, thank you for being with us, president and ceo of the naacp. when we come back from break, as wikileaks founder julian assange tells fox news russia is not the source of the leak you mouse from the dnc, the senate holds a hearing today on russian cyber attacks. this comes as president-elect trump has backed julian assange and called media coverage more dishonest than anyone knows. we will speak with analyst glenn greenwald. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. this morning the senate armed services committee holds a

hearing on alleged russian cyber attacks and top intelligence , officials are briefing president obama on a review of evidence russia hacked the email servers of the democratic national committee. buzzfeed news reports the fbi never examined the servers of the democratic national committee before issuing its report. president-elect trump will be briefed on friday. this comes as he is supporting statements by wikileaks founder julian assange that russia was not the source for the mass leak of emails from the democratic party. assange made the claim during an interviewith fox news' sean hannity. >> we have said repeatedly over the last two months that our source is not the russian government and it is not states party. nermeen: on wednesday, trump tweeted -- "julian assange said 'a 14 year old could have hacked podesta' -- why was dnc so careless? also said russians did not give him the info!" another tweet cited assange

saying u.s. media coverage on the issue was "very dishonest" and trump added "more dishonest than anyone knows." amy: this followed trump's tweet on tuesday, that -- "the 'intelligence' briefing on so-called 'russian hacking' was delayed until friday, perhaps more time needed to build a case. very strange!" "the wall street journal" reports trump is planning an overhaul of the cia and the office of the director of national intelligence that will limit the power of the spy agencies. but put more spies on the streets. well, for more, we are joined by glenn greenwald, pulitzer prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of the intercept. his latest article is headlined "washpost is richly rewarded for false news about russia threat while public is deceived." in it, he writes -- "any story that bolsters the prevailing d.c. orthodoxy on the russia threat, no matter how dubious, is spread far and wide. and then, as has happened so often, when the story turns out to be false or misleading, little or nothing is done to correct the deceitful effects."

glenn, welcome to democracy now! we've never seen julian assange in the news as much as he is being cite the president-electd donald trump. talk about what we know at this point around the hacking, the briefings are being had now by president obama -- today, president elect trump tomorrow. citing julian assange. is most remarkable, given how much discussion there has been, how many media reports have been devoted to this topic, what we actually know about any of this is very little. of course, it is possible that the russian government was actually behind these hacks. nobody has ever said russia did not do it. no one is ever said this is the sort of thing that putin would

not do. this is the kind of stuff u.s. and russia both that to one another into multiple countries around the world for many decades, not just things like this, but far worse in terms of interfering in other countries democracies and their internal affairs. the real issue is that there has ofn a very extreme dirth evidence to actually support the claims that of come from the u.s. government, largely, though not exquisitely, through anonymous sources, laundered through newspapers. people were very skeptical, rightly so, when julian assange came out and declared his source was not the russian government or any state actor. there's good reason for skepticism about whether julian knows that come and if he is accurately describing who his source is when he has a duty to protect his source. there's very little skepticism being applied to the agencies that have repeatedly misled and

lied to the neck of people, which is the cia and other intelligence agencies, who when they are not lying, or often simply wrong, particularly when it comes to things like attribution of a hack, which is a very difficult thing to pin down. you have a really consequential a dangerous issue, which is ratcheting up tensions between two nuclear armed powers who have decades of tensions, who have almost come to nuclear war on multiple occasions, simply through misconception and miscommunication. this is happening in a media environment that is proven over and over the will could anything if it feeds the hysteria about vladimir putin and the russians. this is a really toxic environment. i think journalists ought to be trying to rein it in and demand some skepticism and restraint and most of all, insist on seeing evidence -- conclusive evidence publicly presented that the cia and other government agencies are climbing

about the russian government. amy: re: surprised to hear that what assange has to say is big repeated by donald trump the president-elect? i mean, go back to 2010 winter trump had a very different and julian wikileaks assange as he was preparing to appear on fox news radio program, trump had this to say when the show host brought up wikileaks. mr. trump: disgraceful. death nalty or something. amy: "he should be given the death penalty or something," donald trump said in 2010. at the time, trump was the host of the reality television series "the celebrity apprentice." glenn greenwald, can you talk about trump's change of heart? >> sure, it is purely opportunistic. it is obvious that is the case. republicans hated wikileaks when they were publishing cables

about what the bush administration was doing in both iraq and afghanistan, the war crimes that were committed. they wanted them hung as tra itors. they wanted julian assange hurled to the united states to be imprisoned or worse. there were lots of calls for his death on fox news and elsewhere. that was at the same time that lots of democrats and liberals were praising wikileaks for bringing needed transparency to the war crimes of the abuses of the bush administration. now both sides have done a complete reversal for the same reasons we seen over and over, which is opportunism. wikileaks became this year a leaker of documents that reflected poorly on the clinton campaign and hillary clinton. as a result, democrats went from supporting wikileaks and viewing them as heroic and important agents of transparency, to anding them as traitors liars and people that ought to

be convicted. republicans did exactly the opposite reversal for exactly the same reasons, which is they went from viewing julian assange as a traitor to sing a hero and an important conduit for information the public has the right to know. you look at the polling abc the democrats completely reversing what their view of wikileaks is in 2010 to 2016, and use exactly the same thing with republicans. not just donald trump, but even someone like sarah palin who called for wikileaks' death execution, herself had her own e mouse published by wikileaks in the past, "i want to apologize to julian assange. ps, it is important to see all of her stone -- oliver stones film about snowden." trump's victory is caused everyone to be disoriented and lose their footing. that is what you're seeing.

grappling for positioning. people abandoning the dishes they held for a long time. nermeen: to go back to the intelligence briefings scheduled for today and tomorrow, we do not want -- we do not know what these briefings will reveal but some have said u.s. intelligence agencies have not published evidence for their findings on russian involvement in th election for fear of exposing their sources. do you think that is a legitimate concern since it is one that journalists frequently invoke? >> it is possibly legitimate, depending on what the evidence is. because we do not know with the evidence is, all we can do is speculate. assume they have the most conclusive evidence possible, that they literally have a wiretap of vladimir putin personally on a telephone call or through any now ordering the hacks of the dnc and podesta in order toelp donald trump. let's fantasize that is the evidence they have.

is there good reason for them not to want to publicly disclose that? of course. it would blow their methodology for how they have accessed the communications of the highest level of the kremlin. the problem, however, whatever legitimacy they might have for wanting to keep this evidence a secret, we as citizens and we as journalists are then put into a position where we either have to blindly believe what it is they are claiming, notwithstanding the long history of lying and error, we just say, "we appreciate the fact you cannot show us this evidence. we are willing to blindly put our faith in the acquisitions you have made them believe them to be true even know you cannot show us the evidence." or we say "as citizens and journalists, look, we understand you cannot show is this evidence, but because we cannot see the evidence, we are not willing to blindly assume his accusations to be true and then resurrect the cold war and

pursue aggressive and bellicose policies the way john mccain and lindsey graham and democrats in the senate want to do because we don't see evidence that what you are claiming is true." thieink that is dilemma. we need to see evidence. breake have to take a that we will come back to this conversation. glenn greenwald, one of the founding editors of the intercept. we will be back with him in a moment. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we are talking about wikileaks founder julian assange and allegations of russian cyber attacks. during his interview with fox news shot hannity this week, assange was asked whether mainstream media in the u.s. is

dishonest. >> it is very dishonest. if you look at what we published -- >> they're colluding with hillar is that not corrupt? >> it is an ethical corruption. >> they claim they are ethical journalists. corruption alsoeans something in law, that you are taking money and exchange. >> collusion. >> their colluding. >> because they share her political anda. >> i think that is an optimistic interpretation. >> explain that. >> is more like, you rub my back, i will rub yours. i will give you information, you will come to my -- i willnvite you toy child's christening are my next big party. the you know what i mean? amy: that is julian assange on

fox news. glenn greenwald, your latest article for the intercept is headlined "washpost is richly rewarded for false news about russia threat while public is deceived." could you comment on what assange said in your own findings regarding mainstream media coverage of alleged russian cyberattacks? let's focus on your behavior of "the washington post" for the moment. they have produced two of the most union liaising debacles in american journalism in the last several years. havehese two humiliations taken place just within the last six weeks, both of which are about completely fictitious and fabricated claims about the threat posed by vladimir putin and russia. the first was on november 24 when they claimed, based on a newly formed anonymous group, that there has been a very

widespread successful effort to implant kremlin propaganda in the american discourse, and a columnist this by giving credence to the secret list that this anonymous group of cowards they created in which they claim a whole range of american media -- theyand websites decreed them to be pools of kremlin propaganda. and "the washington post" created this huge story that went all over the place taste upon giving credence to this list and saying that russian propaganda has been viewed more than 200 million times in the united states. journalists oliver twitter, it,lessly spread aggressively endorsed it. it became a huge story. over the course of the next two

weeks, the story collapsed and now there's a major editor's note at the top of the article disclaiming the key source saying they did not intend to in any way vouch for the validity of the findings of the source of which the entire story was based. even more embarrassing was this weekend when "the post" trumpeted the story friday night that vladimir putin and russia had hacked into the electric grid of the u.s. through a vermont utility, which caused vermont officials like the governor and senator leahy to issue statementsaying vladimir putin is trying to endanger the safety and welfare of vermonters by stealing their heat the winter. the whole story from start to finish turned out to be a complete fabrication. there was no invasion of the american electric grid. the malware found on one laptop had nothing to do with russia. the story was completely false. the american media in this hysteria cap spreading and endorsing it. in both cases, the retractions

were barely noted. you have millions of people being misled into this view that russia is this grave threat, and when the story journalistically collapses, they barely hear about it. it happen over and over through the election with slate saying a secret server had been found between donald trump and a russian bank, which turned out to be false. "the post" aired allegations that putin had poison hillary clinton on the day she collapsed on 9/11. it is not just dishonesty, it is the kind of behavior we saw in 2002 where american media outlets are willing to publish anything that the u.s. government health them to publish to inflate and expand the threat posed by russia to raise fear levels to the highest possible degree. it is an incredibly responsible and dangerous form of behavior that media outlets, led by "the washington post" are engaging in. amy: you talk about how retractions do not get anything

like the play of the story, that also has to do with what is tweeted by the publication, even when they retract and what isn't, glenn. >> right. let me give you two examples of the corruption at play here. when "the post" unveiled their huge story that russia fake news race on this mccarthyite list that has proven to be a fraud, they had marty baron, the executive editor, widely respected editor of the paper, the want to twitter and announce this huge expose of predictably he got tweeted and shared thousands and thousands of times but all of the biggest journalists. when the story collapsed over the next two weeks and they attended this huge editor note, "the washington post" did that thing to bring in with attention to the fact that clique aims -- he claims have been better. marty baron refused to answer any questions about what the paper did and other not one twitter or anyone

else to tell all of the followers that he alerted to this story that the story had collapsed. with the story i just talked about over the weekend of how putin wanted to steal the heat from vermonters to make them suffer ithe winter, brent staples, who works for "the new york times" editorial page when on twitter and said, our friend putin has invaded u.s. electric grid. when that story collapsed in "the washington post" retracted it, he did something worse. he quietly deleted his tweet a day later as though it never happened. and also failed to tell his 30,000 followers that what he is just told in the day before that caused them to run around and share with her friends on facebook and twitter that this has happened, was in fact, complete fiction. you see this over and over again. these are the people who keep saying that fake news is a huge problem, that facebook has to suppress it. yet it is america's leading journalistic outlets doing more

to disseminate false and deceitful stories and macedonian teenagers by a huge amount. when they do it and it turns out the stories are discredited, they take very little to no steps to alert the people that they have misled about the fact the stories were false. it is credibly reckless journalistic. these are the same people pretending to be crusaders against fake news. nermeen: glenn greenwald, let me ask about the possible use of twitter for the dissemination of .ther possibly fake information never repeatedly emphasized you just did, the role of twitter and spreading -- you have repeatedly emphasized, as you just did, the role of twitter in spreading false news and media outlets. this may be the first time in global history that a head of state in two of the most powerful state in the world, seems likely to use precisely this medium as one of his sensible modes of communication. you think there is some the

risks involved with official pronouncement conveyed through twitter, as you say, and explained our with journalistic use of this medium." >> i think there are two sides to this. one is the potential -- a potential virtue to having politicians being able to communicate directly to their constituents and the people they represent without having to be mediated by american media outlets, especially once proven to be an trustworthy. in some sense, i think it is positivender t right circumstances for a political leader, not donald trump, but political leaders, to have a means to committee could directly to the people they're supposed to be representing and who can then hear feedback back from those people. in theory, that would be a good model. the problem with donald trump using this is twofold. one is that in your the actual

president of the world's largest superpower with a massive nuclear arsenal, using twitter is an extremely dangerous venue because it inherently has all kinds of ambiguities, possibilities for being misunderstood and for misleading people into what your actual intentions are. that is happen over and over. so many of his tweets are not -- you don't even know what he means. issuingresident is those kinds of ambiguous statements, those are the kinds of things that can ratchet up tensions and intentionally and even spark wars. i think there's another finishes aspect, which is what trump is doing is he is trying to discredit every single source of information other than donald trump. he is telling his followers, don't listen to the american media because they are liars. he is telling them, don't listen to the intelligence community because they defrauded you with barak. he is telling them, don't listen to experts because they are corrupted in their part of the d.c. swamp he wants to drain.

the only truth you should trust comes from me, donald trump. and that is a very dangerous framework. it is pure authoritarianism. what a political leader also becomes guilty source of information that the population trusts. unfortunately, his biggest allies in that our media outlets who have done the kinds of things i just explained "the washington post" having done and they are the reason why people are losing faith in american media outlets. that is what gives a perspective donald trump the space to say "i'm the only person you can trust." his use of twitter is a powerful weapon. amy: china's state news agency said twitter should not become an instrument of foreign policy, warning president-elect trump. as we wrap up, your concerns right now -- in the headline, we

just said that donald trump says he is going to overhaul the intelligence agencies, which many might think is a good thing. cutting back virginia -- the less computer internet surveillance, more human surveillance, getting more spies out on the streets. where is this country going now, glenn, your perspective, from outside now, though as an american? >> i think it remains to be seen, but there are definitely fundamental changes taking place. if you look at recent polling, what you find is the cia is now one of the most admired and defended institutions among democrats, while republicans don't like the cia connection to prefer vladimir putin even to barack obama. you have radical shifts taking place in coalitions, and alliances, in alignments.

it is very applicable how it can play out. sometimes instability can produce positive outcomes. boeing ando limit lockheed and the amount of money spent on them. he was to bring jobs back to the u.s. but it can also have very dangerous outcomes as well because of it a verdict ability. i think it is a dangerous time for the uned states and it is one of the reasons why i'm hoping democrats find their oting and become a lot more stoped in recent and wallowing in these radical conspiracy theories that make them appeaunhinged. donald trump needs a cohesive and focused and effective opposition. amy: we will leave it there, glenn greenwald. thank you for being with us pulitzer prize-winning , journalist and one of the founding editors of the intercept. we will link to your most recent these, "washpost is richly rewarded for false news about russia threat while public is deceived." democracy now! is looking for

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