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tv   Democracy Now  LINKTV  April 10, 2017 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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04/10/17 04/10/17 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is demomocracy now! >> the central intntelligence agency lost conontrol of ththis entire cybyber weapopons arsena. act ofis is anan historic devastating incompetence to h he created such an arsenal and anded it alall in one place,
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not t secured it. amy: today, a democracy now! exclusive -- julilian assange, ththe founderf wikileaks, for the hour. we will look at the massive trove of secret cia documents published by wikileaks that exposed how the agency had beenen able to hack into personl phones, cocomputers, and televisions all over the world. plus, we will talk to julian assange about wikileaks actions before the 2016 election when they published tens of thousands of internal emails from the democratic national committee and hillary clinton's campaign chair john podesta. was russia the source of the humility? the fbi for suggesested it was, but indirectly. quick you know whether they dealt directly with wikileaks or whether they, too, used an intermediary? >> they did not deal directly with wikileaks in contrast to christopher 2.0. amy: we will get julian
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response. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. global tensions are rising following the united states' missile atattack on a syrian airbase late thursday night. president trump said the attack on the shayrat air base, which came without u.s. congressional approval, was a response to a chemical weapons attack the syrian government allegedly launched from this base last week. this attack in khan sheikhoun killed 86 civilians, including dozens of children. international allilies of the syrian government, including russia, iran, and hezbollah, have vowed to retaliate against any future attacks against the syrian regime. on sunday, the group issued a joint statement saying -- "the aggression against syria oversteps all red lines. we will react firmly to any aggression against syria and to any infringement of red lines, whoever carries them out." over the weekend, russia also sent a warship armed with cruise
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missiles to the coast of syria in response to the u.s. attack. meanwhile, u.s. ambassador to the u.n. nikki haley now says president bashar al-assad's ouster is inevitable. >> so there is multiple priorities. it is getting -- getting assad out is that the only priority. obviously, we are trying to defeat isis. secondly, we do not see a peaceful syria with assad in there. thirdly, get the iranian influence out. finally, move toward a political solution because of the end of the day, this is a complicated situation for not there are no easy answers. a political situation will have knowppen, but we there's that sort of option where a political solution is going to happen with assad at the head of the e regime. if you look at his actions in the situation, it will be hard to see a government that is peaceful and stable with assad. you is ambassador to the u united nations nikki haleley speaking to cnn.
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u.s. secretaryry of state rex tillerson is heading to russia on tuesday. ahead of the meeting, tillerson accused russia of being partially responsible for the chemical weapons attack, saying -- "either russia has been complicit or russia has beenen simply incompetent." in russia, meanwhile, lawmaker mikhail yemelyanov has accused the united states of provoking a nuclear war. >> this act goes far beyond just syria because clearly, russia supports the legal syrian government and takes part to a certain skill in this conflict. therefore, such a strikes are an act not just against syria, but also against russia. moreover, when americans were striking the airport, they did not know if our citizens were there or not. this situation may lead at least to a repetition of the cuban missile crisis, which almost push the world on the edge of a nuclear war. amy: the u.s. attack on the airbase appears to have caused little damage to the syrian regime's military capabilities. the government was able to largely evacuate the base before
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the attack, since the u.s. had warned russia before the missile strikes. on friday, only hours after the attack, the base was once again operational. on saturday, activists say at least one civilian was killed in airstrikes on a residential neighbhborhood of khkhan sheikh, the same town whwhere the chemil weapons attack occurred on tuesday. majed khattab, a resident of the town, told the "washington post" -- "the american strikes did nothing for us. they can still commit massacres at any time." meanwhile, the stocks of the military contractor raytheon surged following the missile attack, which used 59 of the company's tomahawk missiles, estimated to cost $1.4 million a piece. as stocks surged, raytheon added about $1 billion to its market value friday morning. according to financial disclosure filings, presidentt trump personally invests in raytheon, meaning he profited directly from the attack. egyptian president abdel fattah al-sisi hahas imposed aa
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threree-month state of e emergey afafter bombings at two coptic christian chchurches killed at least 49 people during palm sunday services. are to be steps taken. the first of which will be the declaration of a state of emergency after the necessary legal and constitutional procedures are complete, for three months in egypt. we are announcing the state of emergency only to protect our country y and secure it, and prevent any interference with it. amy: isis has claimed responsibility for the two attacks on the st george's coptptic church in the northern city of tanta, and the st. mark's cathedral in the northern city of alexandria. the state of emergency gives al-sisi's government even further power to continue its crackdown against human rights activists and journalists. it allows the government and its security forces to surveil all communications, confiscate property, arrest anyone suspected of violating the state
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of emergency laws, and shut down media a outlets.s. on s sunday, christians mourned the victims of the bombings. this is a priest in tanta, tawfik kobeish. >> believe me, it is a miserable and painful feeling to goo through this cruel experience. we don't expect people who live with us in the same country, people whom m we have shared loe and friendship with and are friendlier with us, to do these things. amy: the pentagon has is sending an aircraft carrier and several warships toward the korean peninsula in a major escalation of the conflict between the u.s. and north korea. the decision to reroute the aircraft carrier, known as the carl vinson, as well as three guided-missile destroyers and cruisers to the peninsula came only days after north korea launched its latest ballistics missile test. this missile reportedly flew only 37 miles. nbc news is reporting, citing unnamed military officials, that the national security council has presented president trump with a series of options on north korea, which include deploying u.s. nuclear weapons to south korea's osan air base. this would mark the united
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states' first overseas nuclear deployment since the end of the cold war. another option reportedly presented to president trump is the assassination of north korean leader kim jong-un. and washington, d.c., neil gorsuch is being sworn in as a supreme court justice today. chief justice john roberts will administer the oath. on friday, gorsuch was confirmed by the senate in a 54-45 vote after republican lawmakers invoked the so-called nuclear option changing the senate's , rules in order to allow gorsuch to be confirmed by a simple majority. gorsuch has a long history of ruling against workers in cases involving federal race, sex, age, disability and political , discrimination and retaliation claims. his confirmation was opposed by democratic lawmakers, including senate minority leader chuck schumer. >> i hope judge gorsuch has listened to our debate here in the senate, particularly about our concerns about the supreme court increasingly drifting
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towards becoming a more pro-corporate court that favors employers, corporations, and special interest overworking america. amy: neil gorsuch will fill the seat left vacant more than a year ago after justice antonin scalia died in february 2016. senate republicans refused to consider president obama's supreme court nomination of merrick garland. gorsuch's swearing-in today will end the longest supreme court vacancy since 181862. the journalistic monitoring group airwars says dozens of civilians have reportedly been killed in iraq over the last week b by airstrikes carried out by either the u.-led coalilition or the u.s.-backed iraqi army. on april 4, 20 civilians, including children, were reportedly killed in west mosul by airstrikes. the next day on april 5, more than 25 civilians were reportedly killed by multiple airstrikes on neighborhoods across west mosul. another airstrike that same day on anbar provivie reportededly killed eight civilians, including four children.
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also on april 5, airstrikes on a village to the northwest of mosul l reportedly kilild up to0 civilians. the airstrikes are part of the u.s. and iraqi militaries month-long campaign to retake ththcity of momosul from m isis. in somalia, at least 15 people were killed in a car bombing rgeting sesenior military officials in the capital mogadishu on sunday. the militant group al shabaab claimed responsibility for the attack, which destroyed a minibus carrying civilians, killing everyone on board. in kashmir, indian security forces killed at least eight civilians after the soldiers sunday opened fire on protesters demonstrating against indian rule of the territory. the demonstrations came during an election to fill a parliament seat, which was made vacant after a lawmaker resigned in protest of the killing of civilians during last summer's crackdown by i indian securityty forces. in sweden, thousands of people gathered on sunday in stockholm's central square to commemorate the victims an attack on friday in which four
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people died and 15 more were injured after a man drovove inta crowd of people. the police say the suspected attacker was an uzbek asylum seeker whose application had been rejected and have been given four weeks to leave sweden in december. authorities say the man, who has been arrested, had shown support for extremist groups, such as isis. pentagon officials say a u.s. special forces soldier was killed in afghanistan over the weekend. the soldier, who has not been identified, was killeded saturdy night in n nangarhar province. pentagon officials say the death h came a as u.s. and afghn militaryry were carrying o out a joint operation against militants s affiliated with isis in achin district. in texas, thousands of people rallied in downtown dallas on sunday to protest president trump's plans for mass deportations, as well as his failed attempts to ban refugees and people from some majorityty-muslim natis frfrom enteriring the united states. this is s civil rights activist
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martin luther king iii speaking at the rally. >> what isismportant a about ths demonstration, is christians and muslims and jews and hindus and people who may n not have a belilieve. the fact that americans are coming together saying, we as america can and must do better. amy: arizona governor doug ducey has signed legislation that dramatically pushes education privatization by making every one of arizona's public school students eligible to receive state money to attend a private or religious school. the legislation was approved by the arizona house and senate with no support from a single democratic lawmaker. education secretary betsy devos is a major backer of these types of private school voucher programs, which divert public funding out of the public school system. in more education news, new york state is making tuition free at public universities for families with annual income of under
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$125,000. the free tuition plan, which will be phased in over the next three yearars, will cover all cy university of new york and state universityty of new york collegs anand universisities. the governor's office says the plan will affect nearly 1 millioion families across new yk state. and an update to a case we've been following. one of new york's best-known immigrant rights advocates will not face deportation tomorrow. ravi ragbir, executive director of the new sanctuary coalition, had been ordered to check in with immigration and customs enforcement tuesday, even though he reported for another check-in just last month, accompanied by a number of city council members and a state senator as hundreds rallied outside. officials say he can now check in next january. this is ragbir describing how accompaniment works. >> when we partner u.s. citizens with immigrants who are in this
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crisis, not only for myself but many others, they are able to get the support from the community so they are not in this fearful space, but also treated with respect. amy: faith groups are planning to hold an interfaith seder tomorrow morning at 26 federal plaza in new york city to call for lasting immigration reform. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. today we spend the hour with julian assange, the founder of wikileaks. it's been nearly five years since he entered the ecuadorian embassy inin london seeking political asylum fearing a swedish arrest warrant could lead to his extradition to the united states.s. despititbeing holed up in the embassy, assange's impact is still being felt across the globe. his asylum case recently became
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an issue in the ecuadorian presidential election. the right-wing c candidate guillermo lasssso had vowed to remove assange from the embassy if he won. but lasso lost to ruling party candndidate lenin moreno whoho d assange isis welcome to stay.. meanwhile, wikileaks recently began releasing a massive trove of secret cia documents that exposed how the agency had developed tools to hack into a d spy on personal phones, computers, and televisions all over the world. wikileaks described the leak as largrgest ever release of confidential documents on the cia. amy: wikileaks' activity before the 2016 election is also still generating headlines. just before the democratic national convention last wikileaks published 20,0,000 july, internal emails s from the democraticic national cocommitt. within two days, the head of the dnc, debbie wasserman schultz,
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resigned her post in part because the emails showed the dnc worked behind the scenes to discredit and defeat bernie sanders who was challenging , hillary clinton for the nomination. less than three months later, wikileaks began publishing internal emails from clinton's campaign chairman john podesta. soon donald trump was praising , , wikileaks on the camampaign trail. pres. trtrump: this jujust came. this just cacame out. wikileaks -- i love wikileaks. amy: between october 7 and election day, wikileaks would go on to publish 20,000 of podesta's emails generating a rash of negative stories for the clinton campaign. juan: u.s. intelligence agencies have accused russia of hacking the dnc and podesta accounts but many questions still remain about what happened. during a recent congressional hearing, fbi director james comey placed the blame on russia intelligence when questioned by congressman adam schiff. >> do you know whether the
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russian intelligence services dealt directly with wikileaks or whether they, too, used an intermediary? some cutssess t they used of cut out. they did not deal directly with wikileaks. in contrast to ducey leaks and guccifer 2.0. amy: that was james comey on march 20. running us now from the ecuadorian e embassy in london s julian assange, the founder of wikileaks. welcome back to democracy now! >> good morning, amy. amy: did russia leak the documents, either the dnc documents or the john podesta emails to wikileakaks? >> we understand quite clearly our source is not a member of any state, clearing the russian gogovernment. if you look at the statements by james comey, jajames clapper, going ck a coue e of months, statements from barack obama, they a harmonious description.
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what the u u.s. investigation by james comey seemtoto be trtrying to say, at least in pubublic, is that t they perceive therere was some russian hacacking, or whah- at least se e hacking sosomewhee from the d -- - the allegatitios are seral thousands of peoplee were hacked i in those operatio. amy: but how do you know it t is not russia? how do you know it is not a state actor since usually say you don't know who gives y you documements? >> wee looook very closelyt t or publications. we tend to c come to a good dederstanding g of them. are not willing to go into details about our source because it might describe the sort of personon they are, , e jurisdsdiction they y e in, whih
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could put thehem at risk. but wewe have said clearly o our sources are not t a member of a russian state. even u.s.s. government is nott suggesting that our source e isa membmber of ssssian state. what a appears to bebe goi onn s there bebeen obsvations of hacking of thousands of people or attemempted h hacking of ththousands of people. that is quite norormal in intelligence gathering a activiy before an electionn, presably being carried outt by ny statates. i would be surprirised if thahat doesn't include russia. here are the plicacations ofof wikileakaks. what there isn't is s somethingn betwtweethe middle. that e is an allegatatn there has beenacking here an publation ov herere,hen ese must be dirtly caally intentiolly relat. so f, there's no edence.
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an: juan, i woulto turn demoaticongressmandam schiff speing at a hring at the hoe intellence comttee lastonth. july d after t convtion, the rst stol emaietrimeal to hiary clton appear on wileaks. a hackerho goeby the mo her guifer.0laims respsibili for hacki dnc d giving t dumentso wikiles. the ading prate cyr securi firms, incding crowd strike, d threat conne, reew the evince of t hack d cclude with highertain that it s the wo of a 28 and a 29 whare knn to be ssian inlligenceervices. s. intelgence communi nfirms dument's werere fm themere acti as a iend. inate julycandidattrump praises wileaks, ys he los them and only appes to the ssians to hack his opponents
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enough, telling them they will be richly rewarded by the press. juan: that was congressman adam schiff. julian, i'm wondering if you can respond to some of the t thingse is saying in that statement? >> mr. s schiff is a dememocratc congressman who is trying to whip up a kikind of new mccarthyism server in orderr to distract from the epic failure ofof hillary clinton. when they lost,t, of all people, to donald trump. should fall back and put t things in context. the united statess governmen in 811950, has intervened elections. interfered in 81 elelections. thatts not including coups of overthrowing the government. there's a long history of the
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united states doing thisis t placaces around the wrld in infamous ways, and most recentlyly, alleged i interferee in the election of israel. i think wewe should understandde uned states i is in a glass house when i it cos to allegations of attememptinto interfe w with or infnfluence electi r results. let's look at the r real meat of the issue. russiait alleged that hass intererfered inhe u.s. ection process? whe they s s there's en a a rietyy o of hacks, , that is que normal to him intelligence goveverning procs s as far a asn be determined, and a few extrtremely s sexual websites sh asas d.c. aks or guccifer 2.0 at no one paid atttition t comend t theour publication
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which people dipapay attention to. what is inur publitions? well, om our perectitivee publhed accuraly andairly whatat hlary cinton ys h her sitionon were in n hesecretet speech to goldldnsachs,nd reretionss w witthe d, anand e excde bernie sanders. at the hrt of f is issues whetr peoplwere td the trtruth abobo hillary clinton ad th dnc if there hadot been uglgly trututh ere, it uldd notnvade anany difference. itas an n ly truru. and publishccurately and fafairlyhahat ug truth. r sourceasn't from t russn ststat if it d been fm a stat would we have ppress tha infoation bere thelection or would w he accuraly and fairly plishedt? of coue we wld have blished .
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you: inelation what said, we have had other guests on, for instance, scott horton who said, the u.s. has been involved in seeking to destabilize governments and overthrow governments all over the world, but horton said there's a difference between what russia attempted to do and whether anyone in the trump administration colluded with russia or helped or cooperated or had conversations witith the russians as theyey were seekingo destabilize u.s. elections. scott horton said that would be definitely a problematic issue for trump. i'm wowondering your thougughts ababout that?? >> i would agree that would be interesting d unusual. i don'n't think it is -- it is on, trumpg thahat early anand people around 10 tooook a strongn towoward russia, a position toward russia, , and nt
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a classic republicanan position. i i think that is intereresting. it iss somewhat compatible with trump's statementsts going bacaa very long time. if thatuld be surprised turns out to be s significant. why do i s say that? well, trump had very litittle businessss success in n russia. hehe has not managed to build a hol inin rsia. as farar as can bebe determineds i got y good deals in russia. making statetements during the campmpaign on ththe sta, hey, russia, ifif you have this emai, give them to the press, i will be p pleasedboutut it. seeee statentnts like that, th is noththe sort of atemenents you makake if you are -- if you are the havoc you medications chanl and yoyou are a ready engagaged in an active conspiracy. for people like p paul m manafo, incapablemeone who isis
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of engngaging -- well, let''s sy dodgy activities. seveveral long h history of worg fovarious s parties s in differt ways. have they asasked for support through paulul manafort? maybe. if you're looking at the top level involving trump, what i weaknkns in the ability to get anything concurrently done in russia. trurump mayw, while or may not have investments in russia, it is very clear the oligarchs in russia have failed him out to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, if not more , in thehe united states w whene was buildingng buildings, having gone bankrupt many times, hard to get a line of credit in places like near democracy now!, trump soho, a major building
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project downtown manhattan. i would to turn back to adam schiff speaking last month. 8, roger stone, a longtime trump political advisor and so proclaimed political dirty trickster, boasted in a speech he is communicated with assange and that more documents would be coming, including an october surprise. he also communicates with the russian cut out guccifer 2 an officer breitbart piece -- offers a breitbart piece. in august, stone do something truly remarkable. when you predict that john podesta'sd person you mouse will published. trust me, he said, he will soon be podesta's time in the barrel #crooked hillary. he follows repressions. i total confidence that wikileaks and my euro julian
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assange will educate the american people soon, he says #lockherup. halo coming. two days later, it does. wikileaks releaeases is first batch of you mouse. it will contininue on a daily basis up until election. amy: this is roger stone speaking on august 8. [indiscernible] >> it cacan be a number of thin. i i actually have comemedic it d assange -- communicated witith assange. i think the nenext pertain to te clinton foundation, but thereres no telling what the october surprise may be. amy: that was roger stone speaking august 8 in broward county, florida. if you could respond to the substance of what they're sang, , juli, anand explain what is yr relatishipipith roger stone.
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>> i don't want to be an apologt for these people, b bt partpopolics in the unid stat is someing that everyo has to geawayrom. glared isio o of two by different you leads been sucked up all of the political energy in the c country. while we could talk later ababot what h has happenened the tru adadministrationonnd the fascinating g process we have bn sayingbout how manany d days dos itit take fofor the security ser digesest the presisident, sosomethingg like 75, seems to e the answer. , rogeger stonene -- i've never communicated with the guy and h is never comommunicatewith me. otr than recently, then just say, what are you doing? saying, we have c communicated, please explain. brilliantlyply
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inseserted himimself into this eqequation. now remember, stone was pushed out in 2015 from the trump campaign. when wileaks w was engageded in s publicioions exposing interference in e prprimary process atat the dnc, that was e biggggest stayining on the polil radar for ththat time e period. stonee having g nowhere to be, decided toto suguggest he e has commmmunications with usus. let's look at his predictions. he predicted that r pupublicatioions were going b e out in the clinton fououndation. he was wrong. all of his other predictioions, where they a accurate, statatems we made th public. we said w we hainformatnn aboutut hillary clinton wewe were ining to publis when you h hear adam schiff saying, roger stone said d that
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wikikileaks publications a are cocoming, were saying -- - i ws saying on tv interviews thatat e had d publications thahat were comingng that were about hillary clclinton. stone predicicted we're goioingo publish an october 4. wewe did n not publish on ococt, that was o our 10 year anniversar literally, t there inono edictione hahas de inn relation to us that have come true that have not been public. you know, you have to admire the chutzpah ofower -- of how he desireseon democratic to see a connection and has exploited t that in orderer to l these books and g gain promise.. it is impressive he e is laid ot a piece o of bait that he understands the democratically aligned d press will leap forwad and put that book and them out.
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him amy: we are going to get a break and come back to this conversation. julian assange speaking to us from inside the ecuadorian embassy in london where he has been holed up for almost five years. we will be back with julian n ad a moment. -- in a moment. ♪ [music break]
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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. wikileaks has publilished what it says i is the largest lk of s secret cia documents in history. the thousands of documents dubbed false seven describes cia tools to mobile of hacking into both apple and android
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cellphones the hacking into entire phones the cia is then reportedly able to ice has included messenger programs such as signal, telegram, and whatsapp. although contrary to many news reports from the documents do not show the cia has developed tools to hack these encrypted services themselves. the documents also outline a cia and british intelllligence progm called weeping angel through which the spy agency can hack into a samsung smart television and turn it into a surveillance device that records audio conversations, even when it appears to be off. amy: to talk more, we're going back to the ecuadorian embassy in london where we're joined by julian assange, the founder of wikileaks. talk about the significance of this latest release of documents , julian, that wikileaks has engaged in. >> volt 7 is a largest intelligence leak history. 1 1ofhed so far less thann that material.
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so far, , the publications we he published revealed the central intelllligence agegency has decd to create in the last 10 years itits own captive version of t e national security agency. not spepealized in bullk intercrception, but specializedn semiauautomateted hackg processs people's computer stems, telephones,s, tvs, and ha those then report bacto cia listening post t tt collectt that i information.. an information can be pushshed y using g these mechanisms on to those telephone, computers, etc., etc., for example, plantt information that could implicate someonone falsesely or perhaps n
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truly in a crime. so i think it is - -- it's significant that as the central intelligence agency gained budgetary and political preeminence over nationalal securirity agency, which used to have a bigger budget. in post-9/11 environment, the cam budget -- cia budget has increased. that, increased political power, increased buetary ent t comes from, i has created its own effectitive airr force using drones anand is own lararge hacker squad. so it is able to do things internrnly that t it previouslyy would hahave to go out for othes to do. the centraral intetelligence ag, ke all ititutions, i is maxiximizi its instititional power.r. is slowly y succeeding compared
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to other institutionons. of the various discsures about national securityty agency, most importantlyyhe edwarard snowdenn disclosures of 2013, industry has responded to marketsts and various places in various engineers ideologically also invested in thiss, intrtroducing encryption. , momo typesignal of encpteded emamail. the central intetelligence agencies h hacking approacach ds not targethe intermediaries like the national sesecurity agency does for the bulk intercepepts. instead, it rgets ththe endpoints. then it does not need to worry abouencryption. fofor exampleif you a and i, am, are communicating using, say, signal on a smar phone,e, apple or andndid, but the signal encrtition protococois quite go. it cannott be decrypted by y an
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o onmediary, bulk spying commit cushions s traffic going acacross the atlantic.. like the national security agagency. of if you tre -- ifif either have our phones h hacked, it mes that encryption does not matter. information is gathered either before it is encrypted or after it is decrypted. juan: in terms of the material you're overly so far, you did redact any of the compututer cos you got access to and offered to have companies that may be affected by this, tech companies, to provide them the codes so thehey cod fix any vulnerabilitities. have a companies taken youou up on the offer? >> y, that is a very inintesting procs. and we knew it wouldld be. publicly.this offer and d we also wrwrote to a numbf
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large companiesuchch as apple soft, microsoftft, goog,, mozila , etctc.. the europepean cup at hiss respsponded almost immediately. some eveven approached us. a couple of u.s. companies such resesponded immediately. also, cisco. google, apple, and microsoft talked eightht or nine days, depending on the company -- took eight or nine days, depending on the company, to respond. ththat meanss all of f the usere at risisk in those eight o or ne days. what was happening? we h here, we'rere not sure it s true for all of the companies, from one of the companies, what was happening is they were engaging the lawyers, worried about politics, etc., etc. my guess ionon the legegal fron, a type of collaboration material clalassified
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could be aued to be conspiraracy to commit espionage. of course, that isis not actualy pracactically possible in the u, or pololitically p possible. anand th thehese copies s of indidividuals in them whoo h hae security in themem because t thy work o on classified projects r ththe government. paicularly t t security division of apple, g google, microsoft, etc., have people with security clearances in t tm and might lo t their clelearance ifif they are enged inin working on informationhat is being distributed not through a formal process. see i in all of those big tree ting eieight or n nine days as somome kind ofollaboraration, eithther directltly with eacothr or through a trd party, say, ke the deptment of justice to u uerstand what re they a going to pla the role they endeded uplaying
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is saying, no, we dodon't agreeo fix anything we had aske for within 90 0 days. nono, weon't agree to say any fix came f from you. this is our requirement. instead, you can j just throww someththg at our regular sesecurity reporting mechanism. what is going on there? well, no record of collalaboratn in a formal sense or inin a politicacal senense that cocoule used to make political problems for those companies s in terms f their contracts for ththe united states government,t, or potentiallyy introducece probles ration to espionage actr serity clearance. that is my sposition. we don't know that is true r su. we know some of it is true for at leaeast onef theseompanies.
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anlolooking the timg, i it very unusual that google, microst, and apple all wro back to us on the eighth ninth y. wheas the otr c comnies wrote ba iediatelyrt variouimes. am jillionwe have goo breaagain. 're cing backo this nversaon. juan assan, under d editorn-chief wikilea pick speaking to us om londo we will be back in a moment. ♪ [music break]
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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: in october, the intercept publishedg a conversationl between glenn greenwald and naomi klein about wikileaks plus decision to disclose thousands of john podesta's personal team else. this is part of what naomi klein said. >> i would add it is not just that they did not curate it and
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dump it all, they are dumping they are doling out the dumps. right? to maximize, clearly to maximize damage. so they're not just saying, hey, information was to be free, here is everything we have. journalists, have a field day going through it. they are very clearly looking for maximum media attention. you can tell it just by looking ,t the wikileaks twitter feed you know, timing it right before the debate. have written about how dangerous it is for media organizations to be taking such a highly political approach to this election because they so clearly do not want trump to get elected, so they are engaging in what you described as journalistic fraud. i agree with you. but we have to acknowledge how political wikileaks and julian are being your. assange, yoyo
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response to some of her rememar? >> well, i think it is a bit rich for naomi klein, who is a very wealthy woman, sitting up there in canada, to be accccusig a political priner who has bebeen detained for the last sen years without charge e in violatioion ofwo u.n.n. rulings thout getttting hefafacts straigight. what is wiwikileaks to do? sit on and supprpress evidence f interferencece in the dnc proro? the dnc tol after publh ththe informrmation? for thisd be unethical ornization.. i would arargue it is unethicall for any y media. we h he a commititment to the public that we w will not supprs inforormation l like that, , ane have a commitment to sources who come forward taking risk to g ge us informationon that we will publis i iin a timelely fashion
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once whahave verified that it is completely accurate. now, do we wish that we had more money and could pross informatioion faster?r? of course we do. but we did manage to get that publication outt the four the dnc, and i think that was very important -- before the dnc, and i think that was for imports of the e people involved in the process could understand who i t was that they were choosing to go for. this beer realistic. a particular issue, a very important issue, and i agree it is an important issue, which is climate change. she was willing to attack anyone in her campaign to make sure hillary clinton was elected. because she p perceiveded hillay clintnton would do better on climate change. i agagree it is a ve s serious issue. but in relation n to be helix, e are anan organization that has a commitmement to theublic to
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publish information, not susuppress it. and to make sure as many people read i it as possible. weit true that the way stag o our publishing process increased being gauge meant of people in reading our matereria? of course it is. did we do good job in getting people, enticing people to read and report on our materiall? yes, we did. and we w will do that foror any source, any whistltleblower that cocomes to us and gives u us information. we will try and maximize the t that comeme as a resusultf thee risks t those pee take. thatat is our promise to the readers, and 2 -- amy: early in the campaign, naomi did write an article that
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clclearly suppororting bernie sandnders, running -- hillary clinton cannot be trusted,. we're also joined by allan nairn . if you can weigh in this discussion right now as we talked to julian assange in the ecuadorian embassy? >> first, i've a brief queststin for julian assange. said you didyou not get the leaks directly from a state. you said you know you did not get the leaks directly from a state. do you knonow that russia did nt give you thehe leaks throughnn intermediary? >> i'm not goining to be playing 20 queuestions on our r sources. 'm sure you understand allan, we're not going to be in scriribing circles aroround whor urces a are, how we communicate wiwith t them, any properties tt mighbe useto arrest them or
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criticize them in some future process. >> so it is understand as comey said, russia gave you the leaks through an intermediary. >> i'm not going to comment. >> my view of this is that during the campaign, wikileaks often suggested that trump would clinton.angerous than >> no, we didn't. >> i think you did. >> no, we didn't. >> i think that concept is wildly, gruesomely mistaken.n. there was the argument -- >> that is fine free to say that, bubut you shouould undersd that, no, w we didn''t. i was asked that questioio direct on demoacy nonow!t the time of what my pososition s , asked which one i preferred. the respsponses, b being asked s question is being asked, do i prefer cor or gonorrhea.
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>> the idea a -- >> [ [indiscerernible] you understatand why it isis occurring.g. the dedemocraticic p party had i think -- the dedemocratic p pary had a moment t for very importat inteternal reform after its epic loloss to donald trump. very disliked candidate as first the polling isis ccerneded. so thehe democratitic party d an epic los who s reresponsiblble for thatat epic loss? the democratic party was in its various structures, isis institutions -- >> the democratic party y -- >> [indiscscernible] >> if i i may -- >> telling the public c the tru. andnd theyke the trtruth absorb it and they think about it and they do they want with it. the reality is, t the american people so disliked what was
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being offefered to them by the democraticic party, , that they decided d a prefeferred to blowt alll up rathther than have hilly clinton. they decided to throw the trump grenade. >> i agree with that. however, i would note the trump campaign thought wikileaks was on their side. now, the idea that mr. assange just suggested that trump and clinton were equally dangerous, two different deadly diseases, i think is wildly and gruesomely mistaken. fenton represented a criminal establishment. but trump and the people he brought in with them make it worse. make it even more criminal. this idea that it was just a choice between the lesser of two evils. well, and politics, in life, you fight like hell to have good choices, have better choices -- in this case, sanders was a better alternative. but once that is no longer possible, of course you choose
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the lesser evil. what do you want, more evil, more killing, more pollution, more abuse of immigrants, more racism, more impunity for corporations, more aid to death squads, more spending for the military? all of that is what you get with trump. in distinction to the other bad things you would have gotten with clinton. of clinton n -- i'm's are, the victotory of trump was not equally as bad as it would've been if clinton had lost. it is a catastrophe. it is utter cacatastrophe. those who are poorest, those who are already most vulnerable, are the ones are suffering most as a result. we ate seen nothing yet. started.ust getting starr and with gorsuch coming on supreme court and the possibility of the legislative filibuster will be abolished as well as the supreme court filibuster -- if that will give trump and the radical republican
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right, who now control the congress, essentially absolute power. the only thing standing in their way will be some federal judges, which means within the system, there will be no blocking power. there will be nothing to stop them. in that case, the only way to stop them will be from outside the federal system, which means in the streets or from the systems of the states and localities. we are in the midst of a right-wing revolution. i agree a lot of this discussion isut russia and leaks misguided a lot of it, and it is diverting attention from two main facts. one, we're in the midst of a right-wing revolution that must be stopped and reversed. two, the democratic establishment discredited themselves and they have to be removed and replaced by the democratic race. juan: julian, your response? i would like to also come if you can, talk about -- you havee mentioned it met numerous times,
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the existence of the deep state and what thehe relionship wiwith ththe deep state is to your perspective about whwhat is goig on right now in the united states? r recently, andl i i guess we still have to seeow g gs, have been deliged by t t conflt that h been ocrring betweween the incoming administration a and between the security services. why is that? because itas shed light on both. itit is resulting in the courts throrowing nseses aroundnd the w ofofhe presidency and tyiying tm down. i memean, thatat is something i predicicted would d happen and s happppening very rapidly. for party politics in the united states is the demomocrats ve been in collaps at theost eig yeaears cocicil lel, a at the state level, andnd at the national
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vel. so t the election of donald ump, while he is an unusuaual person psycychologically and hillary clinton was p particularly bad candidate,e, is actuallyart t of something that is much bigger. and it i is ve intnterting to think k of what that is beuse any solution in terms o of party politics h has to understand d y itit is the e democratic machiny has seemingly been inin collaps over the last eight years. and you can perhaps say it is so do witith gross economic factor, perhrhaps the professionalizatin of the democraticc past where eu have the revolving door r of contractors. so you can see this in our dnc leaks that you h have educated, profofessial as dememocrats who are listed woworking the e class basese a and they are involveden
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rerevolving g door sysystem becomingng lobbyiststs, goingngk intoto the dnc, etc. if you r rd the emails s we pupuished abt t johnodesesta come y you c see thiss is nott simply something that happened. this is an e eectation thin that community. ananyone who doesn''t engagage n that expectation, ananyone who doesn't go intnto ivate instry and get a a $400,00a year consulting contract t as a local as agagent, i is viewed toto be a fool. you cannot keep up that game for so l long. it statarts to turnn people offy start t to lose the base, and dh isis wt happppened in thisis particulular run. but thee -- amy: let m me get allan's --- . allan strongly y not it anet swept upp into - -- is
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attempmpt by the democratic c py in ts papartular case, but t by the teedo paies,s, the polararid the e populationon into party polititics. the are lots of inteteresting things that can come out of the trump administraration. e're seeing grgreat horseill stopop -- we arere seeing grgret horse.e. we're seeing the confnfct with thee securities of the d deep state.e. i have been writiting -- i've bn writg about the deep statete for decades, , ing that t word. tuturkisacadadics haveve been writing abouout the equivalent n --key, someungariaians finallll this wordrd is somethig in u u.s. pololitics. it is not a newew concept.. it is essentiay y the military-industrl cocompx pluss lobbyists, plulus contractors, plus people on the senate intelligence community, etc. -- amy: we just have 30 seconds.
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to give you final, it. >> the conflict between trump and the intelligence deep state is a spat, not a struggle. trump has insulted them. ps disregard the -- he has disrespected them, so they are unhappy. trump with them to change their tactics to become more crude and even more violent. once they worked together on a couple of new wars, they will get along just fine. amy: we're going to leave it there. i want to thank you for joiningg us, , allan nairn, , and julian. in our last 10 seconds, you're coming up on five years in the embassy. how are you doing i in the ecuadodorian e embassy in londo? >> well, last year won an icic ctory against t u.k.k. governnt a and thewewedish governnt at t e u.n., formal rung, repepeed i november, those governments still have to obey the u.n. i should be freed in, sated, according to the u.n.
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julian assange of wikileaks. david.irthday to democracy now! is looking for feedback from peoplele who
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